Talk:Axis powers

Wikipedia requires that all content be verifiable, for this reason no country will be listed in the infobox as an Axis power unless independent, reliable sources on the topic of WW2 can be presented explicitly describing them as an Axis power. If you want a country to be included in the infobox, please find sources to support this before opening a discussion.

Co-Belligerents section?

Co-Belligerents to the axis powers (Iraq and Vichy France) should be mentioned in the info box like how Co-Belligerents of the allies are mentioned in their info box.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Salfanto (talk • contribs) 16:33, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

• No. This article is about the Axis Powers. Therefore, in the infobox, it lists the Axis powers, not countries that weren't Axis powers.

"Co-belligerents of the Axis powers" wasn't, historically, a thing. The only country whose wartime government claimed to have been a "co-belligerent" of the Axis was Finland, but this was seen as a position taken simply for propaganda purposes even at the time, was denied by the post-war government of Finland and the Allies, and is not a position agreed with even by the majority of Finnish historians surveyed on the subject, let alone those in other countries. Numerous sources simply identify Finland as having been an Axis country.

Specifically in the case of Vichy France and Iraq, does any source actually describe these places as "co-belligerents"? Let alone "co-belligerents of the Axis powers"? FOARP (talk) 11:12, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Yes. Führer Directive No. 30 ordered German support for Iraq's Arab nationalists. In Vichy France's case, they fought against the allies in North Africa, Syria and Lebanon and did "anti-partisan" work in occupied france. Salfanto (talk) 15:04, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Führer Directive No. 30 isn't a source for that. A secondary source specifically referencing "co-Bellierants" is needed. DeCausa (talk) 20:24, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

@Salfanto - Führer Directive No. 30 ordered German support for Iraq's Arab nationalists - Führer Directive No. 30 was not an alliance of any kind. It also did not confer any particular status on the recipients of the aid granted under it. Führer Directive No. 30 also was explicitly compared the aid being given to Iraq to that given to Spain - was Spain also an Axis member? Or even a co-belligerent of the Axis?

WW2 is possibly the most written-about part of global history. If any country had been a memeber of the Axis, secondary sources would say as much without caveats. If there is not a single secondary source explicitly identifying Iraq as having been a member of the Axis, or even a "co-belligerent" (whatever that would mean in this context), then it is difficult for anyone to make the case that Iraq was an Axis member or "co-belligerent". We have a number of sources that list the Axis powers. They, at most, typically list the countries already in the infobox. None lists Iraq or Vichy France as having been an Axis power.

The topic of this article is "the Axis Powers". There is no reason to list countries that were not Axis Powers in the infobox. This is a topic that has been absolutely done to death on this page, particularly as once Iraq and Vichy France were added, people inevitably tried to add the Soviet Union (who actually did sign an alliance with Germany, and attacked a member of the Allies). See particularly the discussions linked in the FAQ above. FOARP (talk) 15:04, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Vatican City (Holy See)

The section #Manchuria (Manchukuo) states that "Other countries who recognized the State were the Dominican Republic, Costa Rica, El Salvador, and Vatican City."

However, the Manchukuo article states (see history for attribution):

"In the 1940s the Vatican established full diplomatic relations with Japan, but it resisted Japanese and Italian pressure to recognize Manchukuo and the Nanking regime."

This seems like a contradiction, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Henry James Gomerson (talk) 11:09, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

@Henry James Gomerson - Agreed. Our article on Manchukuo explains that this is a misimpression that came from the Bertolucci film, The Last Emperor. This source and this source appear to confirm that the Vatican did not recognise Manchukuo. No source is given on this page for the diplomatic relations of Manchukuo so you can simply delete the unsourced material. FOARP (talk) 13:14, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. Henry James Gomerson (talk) 13:28, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

What about the "Italian Social Republic"?

Should we add the Italian Social Republic to the Major Axis Powers? Because Mussolini also led that. 2600:1700:3680:8B70:9D75:3671:1435:D6B8 (talk) 01:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 March 2024

Why is Iraq not listed in the infobox? They were a full-fledged member of the Axis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Iraqi_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1941_Iraqi_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat Ironzombie39 (talk) 00:23, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. The FAQ at the top says "Only the countries for which reliable sources have been found, describing the country unambiguously as a member of the Axis, should be included." As discussed previously, co-belligerents of the Axis are not considered members of the Axis and hence do not go in the infobox. The question of including Iraq in the infobox has also been discussed multiple times (see the archives), and consensus has also been against inclusion. Liu1126 (talk) 23:40, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Issues with the map of participants in the info-box

Regarding the map of participants in the info-box, it contains inaccuracies:

• The USSR is listed as having switched sides from the Axis to the Allies, which is in between complete falsehood and utter lunacy. Neither the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact nor the joint-but-time-offset German-Soviet invasion of Poland ever made the USSR a member of the Axis, especially not de jure.

• Ethiopia is listed as having switched sides, but how can a colonial government (Italian East Africa) "switch sides" when it was disbanded altogether and replaced with a British military administration?

• If Ethiopia is listed as having switches sides, then Italy should have certainty been included in the list as well, but it was not. The situation with the Italian Social Republic complicates the matter, but since France is already dealt with separately (on the map) in terms of Vichy France and German-occupied France, the same could be done with Italy (showing the Italian Social Republic borders at establishment in blue, and the rest of Italy in blue but with a "switched sides from the Axis to the Allies" marker).

212.243.68.210 (talk) 12:58, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

• Ethiopia went from being an Italian colony to one that had been liberated and Ethiopia's full sovereignty was restored with the signing of the Anglo-Ethiopian Agreement in December 1944 (duing Ww2). Slatersteven (talk) 13:02, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

  We do not list the USSR as a member of the Axis. Slatersteven (talk) 13:03, 9 April 2024 (UTC)