Talk:Alberto Fujimori

Archive

Because of their length, the previous discussions on this page have been archived. In case of need for further archiving, see Wikipedia talk:How to archive a talk page.

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Previous discussions:

• Archive01 (start to Feb/Mar 2005):

First Lady || Higuchi's party || Book reference || Self coup ? || Name || don't wikify all the dates || Pronunciation || Cuzco100, please discuss your issues here || Kenya or Kenyo? || This article is highly biased AGAINST Fujimori || Mayor modifications || note to Messhermit || For Viajero || NPOV || A Knight named Fujimori || Lengthy essays not helpful || Points of dispute || The US, The UK and the EU said that MRTA and Sendero are TERRORIST GROUPS || Constitutionality of third term || Perceptions of AF's regime: Totalitarian? Autocratic? A dictatorship? A mafia?...

• Archive02 (March and April 2005):

Is Viajero the "owner" of this article? || Personal Attacks against other Wikipedist || Overhaul of English, & some questions || Photos about the "terrorist/guerrilla fighters" || Hajor's edits || re. APRODEH || UK vs. US English || A question || Compromise to the aticle || In support || Thoughts from an outsider || Viajero's view || Treaty of Ancón? || "views of opposition"? || Changes || Recent dubious edits: cut from article || Fuji-Cola ? || Fujimori on 2006 ? || APOYO reference needs citation || Legacy section || Viajero: Intolerant with other POV || The state of the country on the 90´s, about terrorism, have to be portraid || Cumpliendo

• Archive03 (April 2005 to October 2006):

legacy: privatizations || Background information on tax revenue from mining || first person of Asian descent to become head of state of a non-Asian nation || Suggestions || mramirez: several questions || First person of Asian descent to become head of state of a South American nation || Use of statistics in a wrong way || fujimoriextraditable.com.pe || UDoN't!wAn*'s edits || Sloppy info on the autogolpe || Resignation || Guerrilla changed to Insurgent || Revisit NPOV || Further discussion does it really worth? || More dubious material || Poll numbers: discrepancy || Discussion || Legacy of Anti-Terrorism || Fujimori in Chile || "Fujimori Fujimori" || Name in Japanese? || The Fall of Fujimori || Citations needed || Engagement || Where was he born? || "Constitutional President" || Protection || Hoping for a consensus edit || MedCab case || Unprotected || Telephone waiting period || citation 'drift' || Criminality

Please add new threads at the bottom of this page.

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Civil War & Fujimori

Sendero Luminoso never controlled 60% of the Peruvian territory. I think that if they don't add a source, that statement should be erased from the article (Alfredo elejalde 19:45, 13 November 2007 (UTC))

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I have reverted the heading "Peruvian Civil War (1980-1992)" listed by an anonymous editor. The subheading seems to imply that Civil War in Peru ended by 1992 which is unsubstantiated, moreover the prior heading chronology is illogical in the context of the Fujimori entry. --User:Bdean1963 19, October 2006

• Sendero's first political act was the boycott to the 1980's Peruvian Presidential Election. Belaunde labeled them as simple "avijeos" - "cattle thieves".
• According to the "Truth and Reconciliation Committee", the most violent period happened during the Garcia Administration. So far, García, for some estrange reason is not criticized here in Wikipedia.
• Abimael Guzmán, leader of Sendero Luminoso, was captured in 1992. That year marked the political and military defeat of Sendero and the end of the most ruthless violence in Peru.
• Remnants of Sendero are still a problem in some areas of the country (mostly in the Jungle), but are not even close to the power that Sendero had before 1992. BTW, Guzmán dosn't approve those actions.
• Bdean has never criticized Sendero, MRTA and García. Is that NPOV?

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Additional revervison of edits by anonymous editor who appears to have a personal grudge, as well as a disdain for international Human Rights standards & the rule of law.--User:Bdean1963 19, 2006

and wiki guidance, see Wikipedia:Words to avoid - terrorist... Addhoc 22:13, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you're saying, but if it is "widely used" then it is acceptable. Naturally it will need to be sourced, but again, it is acceptable. MagnoliaSouth ^(talk) 13:01, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

• As can be noted by the recent editing dispute between myself and an anonymous editor,(74.225.227.204), my edits have been changed because of quote "Loaded terms and weasel words". As I have noted above, edits by anonymous editor(s) appear to have a personal grudge, as well as a disdain for international Human Rights standards & the rule of law. I welcome feedback. Thanks. --User:Bdean1963 20, October 2006

According to Mr."I-am-a-selfproclaimed-Human-Rights-Advocate", his definition of "Human Rights" does not include any type of criticism to the violence that Sendero created and Alan García's triumphal return to the same country that he devastated. By "Rule of Law" we can also imply that Bdean's definition doesn't include any type of comment regarding Sendero's disrespect for the Peruvian constitution and laws. According to him, "Everything is Fujimori's fault". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.225.227.204 (talk • contribs).

The reality is you are a single purpose account who is edit warring and ignoring the advice of words to avoid - terrorist... Addhoc 09:24, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

You only have to look at Bdean's editions [1] to realize that he is a single purpose account. He also self-proclaimed himself as a "Human Rights Advocate", clearly promoting a one-side view of the world. Also, I wonder how impartial is the language that he uses...

For the avoidance of doubt it's perfectly ok to indicate that a government implemented legislation concerning terrorism. What isn't ok would be to describe that government as a terrorist organization. Could I request you have a look at Wikipedia:Words to avoid - terrorist. Addhoc 15:01, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Can someone revert my last edition? Messhermit 15:34, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Due to constant disputes in the article, I made the mistake of editing the article in one attempt to "lower" the dispute. I'm currently asking someone to remove my last edition. I did not have the intention of defying my ban. Thanks. Messhermit 15:37, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Now to the main argument: I wonder how the government that abolished the mandatory military service in Peru is responsible for the "militarization" of Peru. Messhermit 15:52, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I would agree the following sentence could be removed, it has been tagged and is also slightly vague:

"Some have credited this as part of a successful fight against insurgency, while other commentators have attributed this strategy to the increased militarization of Peruvian society, whose impact lingers to this day." Addhoc 00:08, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

What is this? I'm not allowed to use the term "terrorist" to describe organization such as Sendero Luminoso or the MRTA, but it is ok for Bdean to state (politically motivated, of course) that Fujimori was a "dictator"? So Wikipedia has double standards and allow self-described "Human Right Advocates" to do whatever they want here?

Hi, regarding the use of dictator linked to "Contrasting Variants of the Populism of Hugo Chávez and Alberto Fujimori" by Steve Ellner, I found the following abstract.

"During the 1990s Peru's Alberto Fujimori and Argentina's Carlos Menem were the two main political successes of Latin American populism. Both completed two successive presidential terms, a unique accomplishment in the continent, and overcame the political instability that previously beset their nations."[2]

Accordingly, I would suggest 'dictator' could be replaced with 'president', unless Bdean could supply another quote that gives a different emphasis. Addhoc 17:30, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

I recommend that Addhoc as well as the unsigned commentator actually read the essay "The Contrasting Variants of the Populism of Hugo Chávez and Alberto Fujimori." Journal of Latin American Studies. February 2003 by Steve Ellner, rather than merely relying on an internet abstract! I would be happy to provide you with further assistance if your only database is the abstract from one of the field's "flag ship" journals. Regards--User:Bdean1963 22, October 2006

The main problem here is that Bdean WANTS the word "dictator" somewhere in Fujimori's article. He might be using this for a political agenda: after all, he once attempted to use this page for commercial purposes and has declared himself as an "Active Human Rights Advocate" with no impartiality at all.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.2.103.216 (talk • contribs).

Signing one's posts on Wikipedia discourse (especially talk pages) is not only good etiquette; it also facilitates discussion by helping those like myself to identify the author of a particular comment, and to address specific comments to the relevant user(s). I firmly believe that open, transparent discussion is a crucial aspect of collaborative editing as it enables us to better comprehend the development of knowledge. I am proud of my scholarly record and academic achievements, but above all, my unflagging commitment to human rights and social justice. As such, I hope the preceding unsigned comment added by 65.2.103.216 will further the on-going debate regarding Alberto Fujimori's role in shaping Peruvian society, not to mention clarify the serious criminal accusations facing the former President--User:Bdean1963 22, October 2006

Yes Bdean, keep throwing flowers at yourself. It is sad to see someone is praising himself, not to mention that your last comment clearly states your political agenda here in Wikipedia. This IP user is making several mistakes by not addressing specifically what is his/her complains about the page, but your narrow-mindedness goes is beyond any doubt. I encourage anyone to rv Bdean's political motivated editions from this article, since I personally don't believe that "Caviar Leftist" can actually do something to improve this page.Messhermit 18:52, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• I don't believe that the article improves with Bdean's contributions. He keeps pushing a political agenda and using "weasel words" and "loaded terms". Do I have to make myself more cleat than that?
• I don't have Phd or an MBA, but you don't need to have those college degrees to realize that Bdean's editions are nothing more than biased and politically motivated. What kind of neutrality can a self-proclaimed "Human Right Activist" provide? Next time he will be defending (and who knows, perhaps also praising) Sendero Luminoso violent “revolutionary” campaign and ruthless killing of thousands of Peruvians. It is disturbing and offending that a "Human Rights Advocate" fails to address those issues.

I formally request that User:Messhermit desist from making personal attacks on me and abide with the ban on making edits on the Alberto Fujimori entry, many thanks.—User:Bdean1963 23 October, 2006

Your actions and words seem to not make too much sense Bdean. Asking for respect when you are not providing any respect for different opinions?. Messhermit 00:27, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

As an American, I don't read much of the Journal of Latin American Studies (a British Publication). I read Latin American Research Review much more often. Both of these journals are very highly respected. I've noticed that a lot of articles that LARR publishes do call Fujimori a "dictator." They also usually have a footnote explaining the various recent works that have categorized Fujimori's power as dictatorial. Consequentially, I think it's legitimate to mention that a large number of leading voices within the Latin American studies community have called Fujimori a dictator. I do not, however, think that wikipedia should just unequivocally say that he was a dictator. It's such a highly contentious issue that I think just saying "Fujimori was a dictator" would subtract from this article, but explaining the entire debate over Fujimori's use of power, especially his creation of clientalistic networks, would add to the overall article. --Descendall 00:56, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

By the way, a decent starting point from LARR might be Jo-Marie Burt's "'Quien Habla es Terrorista': The Political use of Fear in Fujimori's Peru." That's actually in the most recent LARR. --Descendall 01:00, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Just by the title I can see that it's not impartial at all. I wonder why is so much emphasis in Fujimori and not a single word regarding Sendero's ruthless massacres in Peru. Messhermit 01:05, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, what can I say? It's in the journal of the Latin American Studies Association, the absolute best journal on the subject in the entire world. And you haven't even read it. But you already know that you don't like it. That's a shame. But since you're banned from editing this article, you'll haveto forgive me for not really caring what you think. --Descendall 01:08, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for comments. I didn't know that you will take Wikipedia so seriously as to take it to the personal level. Also, curious indeed that you only select readings that *.*obviously*.* will be favorable to your idea. Messhermit 01:10, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Just for the record, I found this article [3] created by the same "impartial" person that Descendall recommended... and I realize that that is nothing more than pure Leftist propaganda. Next time, she might suggest that we should build a monument for those emerretistas. Should we trust the judgment of someone that defends murderers? Messhermit 01:20, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

The funny thing is that not only are there are several citations to things that Burt wrote in the Shining Path article, and not only does every single one have to do with the brutality of Sendero, but the very article that I first mentioned is one of them. --Descendall 04:13, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone else see the supreme irony in all this. Messhermit is saying that he can tell that Jo-Marie Burt is a terrorist because she spoke up againt Fujimori in an article sarcasticly titled "Whoever speaks up is a terrorist." --Descendall 19:34, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

So self proclaiming yourself as a "Human Rights Advocate" = impartiality here in Wikipedia? Interesting. I also find the following thing plausible, using Descendall words: because a supposed "large number of leading voices within the American studies community have called George W. Bush a dictator" turns him automatically into one?Messhermit 01:03, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

No, but I'd say that if the 50 most promident Americanist political scientists came out and said that Bush is a dictator, some discussion of his use of power might be warranted on George W. Bush. Wouldn't you? --Descendall 01:10, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

So you will continue to push for having George W. Bush in the Dictator's list? Messhermit 01:11, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I would ask what part of Descendall's comment you didn't understand, but clearly it was the word "if". I suggest you re-read what he wrote and not pretend that he wrote something different.

I think it is entirely appropriate that we cite and quote academic sources that characterize Fujimori (presumably after the autogolpe) as a "dictator"; it is also entirely appropriate if we cite and quote academic sources that disagree with the assessment; in any case, the word should not be used in Wikipedia's own narrative voice. Similarly for calling Sendero "terrorist", but less of an issue here because this is not the article on Sendero. I personally think both characterizations are accurate, but my opinions don't particularly belong in the article. - Jmabel | Talk 17:26, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry

Messhermit is banned from editing this article. However, I believe that he is editing the article as 65.2.103.216. The following are my reasons to believe this:

• 65.2.103.216's edit summaries use the phrase "rv. Political bias detected" [4] Messhermit uses extremely similar language in his edit summaries about Peru. [5] [6][7][8][9][10] [11]

• At one point, Messhermit acted in total defiance of the ban and edited the article. [12] This creates the impression that he forgot to log out and edit as 65.2.103.216.

• 65.2.103.216 and Messhermit have rushed to defend one another on this talk page, and are in apparent 100% agreement with each other.

• 65.2.103.216 is an obvious Single purpose account [13] whose purpose seems to be adding Messhermit's suggestions to Peru-related articles.

If 65.2.103.216 and Messhermit are not the same editor, than I deeply apologize to both of them. I feel somewhat embarrassed to be the one to make such a serious accusation, but it seems to me that a wikipedian banned from editing this article may be doing so. --Descendall 01:35, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

The fact that you took your time to dig up such amazing theory only proves that because you disagree with me, you attempt to throw mud to my Wikipedian record. Let's ban every single PC in the US and Peru because Messhermit might be behind those computers, right? Messhermit 01:44, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

It won't be that difficult. User:147.70.124.59's IP address is owned by Miami-Dade College. Perhaps it wasn't such a great idea to put the fact that you attend Miami-Dade College on your use page. --Descendall 01:55, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Go ahead, I wonder if I'm the only peruvian that attend the Miami-Dade College and lives in Miami-Dade County and believes that Fujimori was not a "dictator". Messhermit 02:00, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

And I wonder if you're the only Peruvian who attends Miami-Dade College and has a good reason to hide their name while editing this article and is a wikipedian and a Fujimorista. I'm betting that you are. I guess we'll find out shortly. --Descendall 02:03, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I should ad and uses the term "POV dectected" and starts all revisions with "rv." including the period. By the way, how's that Bell South internet service working out for you? --Descendall 02:06, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Also, why don't you critizise Bdean's unilateral view of Fujimori? or maybe because you support his actions? Messhermit 01:44, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

This has become nothing more than a “which hunt” against my person imposed by two leftist wikipedians that hold a grudge against my person. I will refuse to answer anything due to the fact that this is nothing more than a political persecution and an attempt to subdue my freedom of speech here in Wikipedia. Messhermit 01:49, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

--Descendall I appreciate your judicious and even handed intervention in the apparent edit dispute between User:Messhermit and me. Regards, User: Bdean1963 23 October 2006

This article appears to be in a state of near-crisis. I have formally filed my suspecions that 65.2.103.216, 147.70.124.59, 74.225.187.18, 74.225.227.204, 147.70.153.117, 68.215.109.135, 147.70.153.139‎ and Messhermit are all the same person. Because Messhermit is banned from editing this article, if my suspecions are concerned I think we may have to delete the material added by all of those IPs. Please see Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Messhermit. --Descendall 08:19, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Concerns

Having a looked at the article, and reading some of the dispute on this page I have concerns. I'm particularly concerned about this edit from Bdean [14] which seems to reintroduce a number of unsourced claims, and a couple of sourced claims that overtly stress highly contentious opinions. Almost none of the present wording dealing with these claims and issues would be acceptable to me were they to be applied on the pages I regularly edit and monitor. I suggest that if editors want to keep any of this material, and judging by the action on this talk page it seems they do, then the priority should be to find multiple serious sources. And fast. Because the weasel word police routinely scour for such material, and can be ruthless in dispensing justice. That is my two cents.--Zleitzen 03:23, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Zleitzen, I for one am duly alarmed about the weasel words police. I also echo your suggestion to the extent individual users should just edit to improve portions of the article they have issues with, rather than entirely revert the complicated contributions of individual users or make personal accusations against them. Simply put cite tags on unsourced claims or add other referenced content to accurately and appropriately contextualize referenced if negative information. While the burden of proof for establishing claims is always on the contributor Wikipedia:Verifiability#Burden_of_evidence, we can all help Wikipedia run more smoothly by adding more referenced content rather than critiquing and criticizing individual users. Best regards to all,--Amerique 04:41, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

--Dear Zleitzen, as Amerique wisely notes, all of us can help Wikipedia, “run more smoothly by adding more referenced content rather than critiquing and criticizing individual users.” Given you observation that you “regularly edit and monitor” Wikipedia, combined with your concerns about the veracity of the substantive content of the Wikipedia entry on Alberto Fujimori and suggestion that the priority of the editors “should be to find multiple serious sources. And fast…. That is my two cents”, may I recommend that you assist in advancing knowledge regarding the contentious nature of the Alberto Fujimori Presidency (1990-2000). I look forward to your constructive feedback on continuing the open dialogue about Alberto Fujimori's controversial role in history, and the continued legal challenges that face him. Regards—-Bdean1963 23 October 2006

I could assist by removing all unsourced claims and weasel words according to WP:BLP guidelines, which state that such claims should be removed immediately. Simply keeping "citation needed" tags is not good enough. And as noted above, the burden of proof for establishing claims is on the contributor Wikipedia:Verifiability#Burden_of_evidence. A period of grace has been generously bestowed by a number of editors on this material it seems, but this period can and will run out very shortly. We can also help wikipedia by abiding by policy, and stressing these core policies on the talk page, can we not?--Zleitzen 13:17, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

--Dear Zleitzen, thank you for your constructive feedback. I agree with your suggestions that all unsourced claims should be removed, and keeping "citation needed" tags is simply “not good enough". Moreover the Alberto Fujimori entry would indeed benefit from a careful edit to avoid weasel words. Perhaps the talk page would be an appropriate forum to discus which terms or words have "the effect of, softening the force of a potentially loaded or otherwise controversial statement, or avoids forming a clear position on a particular issue." Given the democratic spirit of the Wikipedia project, I believe that the Alberto Fujimori talk page would provide an appropriate venue to voice diverse points of view regarding weasel words. I do agree with you that the "citation needed tags" confuse the "generalist" reader, and you are right that the burden of "proof" for establishing such claims rests with the contributor. As you will note from my contributions to the Alberto Fujimori entry, I am not responsible for the information posted that has the "citation needed tags" (but rather the individual who placed most, if not all of them in the essay). Having said that, I do think a number of the unsourced claims may in fact be "true". I would be happy to try and find reliable sources to substantiate the claims that I believe are "true". I trust that you will do likewise in an effort to advance knowledge. I am a bit confused by your last statement: "We can also help Wikipedia by abiding by policy, and stressing these core policies on the talk page, can we not?" I would be happy to abide by the "core policies" and if I have violated any, I apologize. Any advice would be much appreciated. And thanks in advance for your counsel. Regards--Bdean1963 23 October 2006

Yes, I agree that unsupported material shouldn't be tagged indefinately, so removing these sentences would be appropriate... Addhoc 13:55, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

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1. The main problem here is Bdean, someone that clearly follows a political agenda, believes that his "word" is the law, has attempted to use Wikipedia for commercial purposes and has already failed to follow Wikipedia's NPOV rules by sponsoring the use of words such as "dictator". Just by looking at his Fujimori's entry in List of dictators you can see his true intentions. Messhermit 13:52, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
2. It is clear for me, at this point, that there are people here that believe to be "right" in every sense of the word, twisting and adapting facts to their own personal (and who knows, maybe commercial) purposes. I have already declined a meaningless mediation, and I have formally requested that every single contribution that I made in those articles be erased. I'm not going to force anyone to go "my way or the highway", because I know how frustrating that is. Messhermit 13:52, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
3. I already leave a comment in the "Talk Page" of the Administrator that imposed my ban in the Fujimori's article. In this sense, I'm withdrawing myself and leaving from Alberto Fujimori and List of Dictators articles permanently. From now on, Bdean can do whatever he wants here, since apparently he has self proclaimed himself (besides "Human Right Advocate") as judge and jury, ignoring the fact that so far the Peruvian, Chilean and Japanese courts have not stated anything regarding the former President. Messhermit 13:52, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Presidential elections in Peru, April 2006

mramirez500 Elections in Peru added to the article.

Civil War and Alberto Fujimori

In response AAAAA recent edit of the Alberto Fujimori as well as the posting on my talk page: (There wasn't a civil war. I'm from Peru and the only thing that happened was the suppression of two terrorists movements by the government which were devastating the country. The repressions could have beens strong, but battles against terrorists were necessary to disarm them and capture them. Maybe the title of the section should be "Terrorism and Fujimori". 201.240.239.229 02:03, 30 October 2006 (UTC))

201.240.239.229 thank you for your feedback. The fact that you “are from Peru” has absolutely no intellectual or epistemological bearing on the Alberto Fujimori entry. Similarly, I am a British Citizen as well as a Peruvian resident, but this has no bearing on your unsourced assertion “[t]here wasn't a civil war. I'm from Peru and the only thing that happened was the suppression of two terrorist’s movements by the government which were devastating the country.” I have had a long and on-going academic association with the Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos, and have conducted scholarly research on Peruvian political violence (including the 1990-2000 period). On the basis of my academic expertise, I can assure you that the civil unrest and culture of terror that plagued Peru during Alberto Fujimori’s authoritarian regime can not simply be equated with “battles” against “two terrorists movements by the government.” I concur with the findings of the Peruvian Truth and Reconciliation Commission that Sendero Luminoso, MRTA (Movimiento Revolucionario Túpac Amaru), as well as official and paramilitary agents of the Fujimori controlled State were involved in gross human rights violations. While the Peruvian Truth and Reconciliation Commission noted that the majority of the human rights violations and atrocities committed between the years 1980 and 1995 were primarily linked to Sendero Luminoso, the final report is quite clear in noting that members of the Peruvian armed forces were also guilty of destroying entire rural communities and extrajudicial assassination of suspected supporters of insurgent forces and bandits, particularly in provincial regions of the country, such as Ayacucho, the central “jungle” (selva central) and the Huallaga Valley in the provinces of San Martin and Loreto. The extent to which Peru’s complex and systematic violations of basic human rights was equivalent to terrorism, especially in light of the contentious nature of the highly charged term, is itself eminently debatable. Your suggestion that “[m]aybe the title of the section should be “Terrorism and Fujimori’” seems to elide the extent to which the Alberto Fujimori regime was also allegedly party to acts of state terrorism, as demonstrated by the imprisonment of officials of the government, such as Vladimiro Montesinos, and by the efforts of the Peruvian government to extradite Alberto Fujimori from Chile, where he is currently in exile, detained from leaving the country while the extradition case against him is resolved. Clearly the civil strife and political violence noted during the Fujimori regime (1990-2000) also involved the historically persistent problems associated with poverty, ignorance, and the profound social inequities of racism, themselves embedded in the pre-Columbian, Spanish colonial, and subsequent development of “Republican” or modern Peruvian social configurations. Fujimori’s neo-liberal approach to the Peruvian economy curried favor in Washington D.C., but this was contradicted by the unbridled growth in a voracious “shadow economy” predicated on the illicit trade in a wide array of items--including: coca, tropical hardwoods, gold, pelts, petroleum and armaments. No doubt the violence and terror observed during the Alberto Fujimori government was not a new aspect of Peru’s recent political history, as demonstrated by the duration of the war in Peru. As such, I feel it more appropriate to use the terms civil war when labeling this section of the Alberto Fujimori entry. I look forward to your thoughts. Saludos, User:Bdean1963 30 October 2006

Since when do murderous terrorists have rights? May god smite every briton who thinks he has the right to impose on every other nation. May Britain itself sink beneath the sea, you won't be missed.96.231.17.247 (talk) 21:26, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

You're right. Murderous terrorists shouldn't have rights. That why the terrorist Fujimori should've been executed. What a tragedy that this animal is allowed to continue drawing breath and wasting our air.75.137.184.182 (talk) 22:34, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Messhermit

Once again, we have IPs from Miami, Florida editing this page, such as User:65.8.62.65. Every single one of the Miami-based IPs that had previously edited this page was identified by checkuser as a sockpuppet of Messhermit. This is getting exausting. --Descendall 22:04, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

• Thanks Descendall for your editorial efforts and dedication to intellectual integrity. Saludos, User:Bdean1963 21 November 2006

Please note that User:Messhermit has been banned from editing the Alberto Fujimori entry [15], yet User:Messhermit has continued to make edits regarding Alberto Fujimori [16] User:Bdean1963 8 February, 2007

Would you mind stop chasing ghost and solve the disputes in War of the Pacific and Tacna Region? That would help a lot to improve those articles. You are not Blocked anymore, so there is no excuse now. Messhermit 20:04, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Proposing the use of unbalanced tag for this article

Hi guys, i am new to wikipedia, and certainly i have no intention to began a edit war as you call it on this site?. But i think this article it is a little bit unbalanced, as i can see one user has been complaining about it. How about if this template {{Unbalanced}} is used on this article?. I think if the reader sees this message at the bottom of the article and he or she thinks this article is not balanced may discuss its opinions here by clicking on the link to the discussion page, cheers :)--201.240.182.180 23:18, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm a bit confused. The only person who was complaining about imbalance was Messhermit, who was clearly attempting to insert his own bias, to the point where there was a ruling banning him from editing the article, which he continues to try to change through the use of sockpuppets. That is not the sort of situation where we usually use the {{unbalanced}} tag. I'd propose removing the tag unless someone can give a cogent explanation of how the article is imbalanced: that is, either something significant that it leaves out, or something that is here that is given disproportionate weight. - Jmabel | Talk 03:10, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Jmabel and suggest the {{unbalanced}} tag be removed. User:Bdean1963 1, January 2007

I removed the tag. As there have been no serious objections on the talk page.--Jersey Devil 08:00, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Never actually done anything with the talk pages before, but perhaps I'll get it right. I think this article is slightly opinionated against Alejandro Toledo, specifically in the second paragraph of "In exile" Whereas the first paragraph is balanced through careful wording, the second is not. Then again, seeing how one responds to this will give me a better point of reference. Perhaps it's not unbalanced at all by wikipedia standards. Korvan 04:52, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Marriage

A minor observation: it says he married Susana Higuchi in '74, but their daughter Keiko Fujimori was born in '73. I doubt both these dates are right. SamEV 16:58, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Bdean1963 does not portray the "University of Lima" survey correctly

[17], [18], [19] are all pages that show that a large % of the people of Lima and Callao are in favor of the extradition of the former president with different opinions, not because they feel he is guilty of all the slander that Bdean is attempting to portray. Also both leading opposition newspaper agree that Fujimori enjoys 49.5% of support in both cities. Why is Bdean1963 hiding the truth and portraying only what he likes? 65.2.165.107 20:23, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the sources. I'm currently including most of what Bdean1963 is not mentioning (curiously, parts in favor of Fujimori). Messhermit 13:27, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Is that you talking to yourself again, Messhermit? Ben Finn 09:13, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Who send you here? Bdean1963? Descendall? Because they are the only ones that believe as a fact that I'm the only peruvian living in Miami with a different oppinion about Fujimori. Messhermit 12:49, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

That is a lie. Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Messhermit confirmed that you were talking to yourself on this page, and you were banned from editing this article. --200.107.128.91 18:14, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Nice try. Go ahead and keep lying to yourself. Messhermit 06:03, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually any user can click on that link and see that it is the truth. Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Messhermit. Funny thing is that any user can also go to [20] and see that you have been blocked four times, twice for using IPs to talk to yourself on this page. --200.121.22.18 04:18, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm glad you are having such a good time in Peru User:Descendall. It's ironic to see that you are now editing as an IP user, not having the courage to do so with your account. Your actions reminds me of Gustavo Pacheco, the pathetic "escudero" of Alejandro Toledo, trying to help your comrade Bdean in his obvious attempt to hide the truth. Oh, and BTW, my ban is over, and in two of those blocks Bdean was also blocked, and it has nothing to do with your accusations. Have a great day. Messhermit 16:25, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

I have not even heard of such people. --200.121.173.99 04:36, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

23:05, 20 November 2006 Thatcher131 (Talk | contribs) blocked "Messhermit (contribs)" with an expiry time of 3 days (violation of arbitration article ban by editing Alberto Fujimori from IP addresses)

01:47, 27 October 2006 Thatcher131 (Talk | contribs) blocked "Messhermit (contribs)" with an expiry time of 5 days (deliberate evasion of arbitration ban on editing Alberto Fujimori proven by checkuser) --200.121.173.99 04:40, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Sure. Keep hiding. Until you don't show up your face here and not some random IP Address, I consider this close. Come back here when you have the courage to talk. Messhermit 05:37, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Fujimori's nationality

Does anyone know what his nationality is? If it's Peruvian then how could he have been protected from extradition by Japan when he was living there? (Japan does not allow dual citizenship) Is there anyone who can shed some light here? 60.40.51.186 04:30, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Japan might not allow dual citizenship, but they may still considered him as Japanesse (regardless Peruvian laws on him), so he could have been protected anyway...--190.42.191.129 04:24, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

This is part of the controversy. The Japanese position seems somehow contradictory. One would assume that by recognizing Fujimori as Japanese Japan is denying his Peruvian citizenship, but it is very obvious that Fujimori is Peruvian. He lived all his life in Peru and was the President there. More importantly, Fujimori had been previously recognized as the Peruvian President by Japan, and he entered Japan with a Peruvian passport. If he was not Peruvian then he would have committed a crime in Peru since one of the requirements to be President in Peru is to be a Peruvian citizen by birth. Besides, Fujimori publicly announced his intentions to run in the Peruvian elections in 2006 while living in Japan as a Japanese. I very much doubt that the Japanese government would have assumed the same position for any other regular mortal. 206.186.114.231 18:34, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

He clearly has dual citizenship, SqueakBox 18:41, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

The Japanese position is not clear. Japan does not allow dual citizenship. Calin99 17:02, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

What I find amazing is that he could have had Japanese citizenship while being President of Peru, clearly a conflict of interest there and a serious one. We should find sources for this stuff before adding tot he article, SqueakBox 17:05, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Fujimori is Peruvian of Japanese ancestry (parents born in Japan). After fleeing to Japan and famously faxing in his resignation, Japan made an exception to their laws in order to harbor him, as he was regarded by many influential and nationalist Japanese as a sort of brother in blood, also there were lingering feelings of indebtedness for his perceived role in liberating hostages from the besieged Japanese embassy in '97. And so in '01, then-Justice Minister Masahiko Komura declared Fujimori was a Japanese citizen. The media didn't follow it up by asking how that could be since he was Peruvian (and continues to be), the media in Japan generally cannot ask their government embarrassing questions. So, strangely, he is Peruvian and he is Japanese, even if Japan does not allow dual citizenship. RomaC 02:48, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

The actual reasons for the readily accepted exception are not known and, considering the circumstances, are rather suspicious. Calin99 13:52, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Most of us who have lived in Peru, whether we supported Fujimori or not, have always assumed that he really was born in Japan and his birth certificate altered later to state he was born in Peru. This is why Japan so readily accepted him as Japanese as Japan does not, as far as I know, make exceptions to their laws. Records being altered in Peru was common place before the advent of computers and the internet when record keeping was done with pen and ink, by hand or on typewriters, and stored in file cabinets. I'm sure it was commonplace everywhere. This was the 1930s remember. My own dad altered his university records in the 1970s and has never been found out (hence my not signing in with an actual ID). At any rate, I believe the tell-all is that Fujimori's mom was recorded upon immigration as bringing two children into Peru and it is commom knowledge that Fujimori is the 2nd of 4 kids. Sure immigration records make mistakes in spelling people's names but not usually in how many people came in with a family, particularly children. I would say the immigration record count is far more reliable than an easily altered ink written document.76.22.241.84 (talk) 12:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Another conspiracy believer. Even his political enemies already gave up with all this nonsense of him being born in Japan, hense the reason why no further evidence has being provided. Regarding the "Most of us", I think you can only speak for yourself and his more hardcore enemies. Messhermit (talk) 04:33, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Please refrain from making personal attacks. You have been blocked repeatedly for this type of action before.Notmyrealname (talk) 07:21, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Grammar

I realize that you're mostly Peruvians trying to write in English as well as you can, but try to keep the grammar as correct as possible.

I also recommend changing "en bloc" to "en masse" but that may be more of a style issue.

One thing is for sure this paragraph must be changed: Fujimori's privatization program also remains shrouded in controversy. A congressional investigation in 2002, led by opposition congressman Javier Diez Canseco, stated that of the USD $9 billion raised through the privatisations of hundreds of state-owned enterprises, only a small fraction of this income ever benefitted the Peruvian people.

You can't spell it privatization and privatisations in the same space. Standardize your English - either go American or go British but not both. 190.43.195.158 23:17, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

The 1993 Constitution allowed Fujimori to run for a second term, and in April 1995, at the height of his popularity, Fujimori easily won reelection with almost two-thirds of the vote. His major opponent, former Secretary-General of the United Nations Javier Pérez de Cuéllar, won only 22 percent of the vote. His supporters won control of the legislature...

My knowledge of SAT grammar tells me that the boldfaced "His" is ambiguous: Whose supporters won the legislature, Fujimori or de Cuéllar? Pikalax 17:33, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

2000 Election results and basic mathematics

In the section "third term", there is a paragraph that reads:

"In the runoff, Fujimori won with just over 51% of the vote. While votes for Toledo declined from 40.24% of the valid votes cast in the first round to 25.67% of the valid votes in the second round, invalid votes jumped from 2.25% of the total votes cast in the first round to 29.93% of total votes in the second round."

So, let's review. In the runoff, 51% of the votes went to Fujimori, 25.67% of the votes went to Toledo, and 29.93% of the votes were invalid.

That 106.6% of the votes cast, so that can't be right. Anyone have a better source for this? Teekno 14:11, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

The 51 and 29.93 figures are as percentages of valid votes, that is, excluding invalid votes. Thus, there were 29.93% invalid votes and 70.07% valid votes. Of this 70.07%, 51% were for Fujimori and 25.67% for Toledo. --Victor12 15:49, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

SUNAT

The "legacy" section of this article mentions "independent and technical-minded administration of public entities like SUNAT." Uh, we are talking about the same SUNAT that hounded members of the political opposition, right? --Descendall (talk) 10:31, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, although it was certainly used as a political tool, SUNAT was indeed transformed from a bureaucratic and inefficient entity into a modern and capable one. The improvement of both SUNAT and customs is undeniable, and like it or not we must admit it was done by the Fujimori administration. Nevertheless, saying that these entities were independent is simply not true.

I'll try to change those lines so that all these issues are expressed.

Hpdl (talk) 15:29, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Resignation, arrest, trial section

In this section there is nothing about his arrest and trial. I know there is a full article about this, but the text should be a summary of all three, not just one. ☆ CieloEstrellado 01:00, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

The section headlined "Resignation, arrest, trial" should cover his arrest in Chile, the extradition proceedings, and the two trials in Peru. Right now only the outcome of the second trial is mentioned (although the article's lead paragraph contains some information about the first trial). AxelBoldt (talk) 18:29, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes I fully agree with that, I had to take a look on the detailed article to understand that he had been arrested in Chile and later extradited. This should be mentioned clearly in the article--Kimdime (talk) 04:32, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

The article completely omits the climax of the story. How did Fujimori fall from power? Cadwallader (talk) 23:26, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I've attempted to clean it up with some salient points from the linked article. haydn_likes_carpet (talk) 05:51, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Trial details in introduction

I have removed the citation to Fujimori's speech in the introduction for two reasons: 1. The information is incorrect since that refers to what Fujimori said during a different trial (Human rights abuses) 2. That kind of details have no place in an introduction section anyway. And one could argue that we should include the prosecuting attorney speech as well. Calin99 (talk) 21:57, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Fine, but now the opening paragraph now says that Fujimori was sentenced to six years of jail twice. --71.178.68.94 (talk) 00:08, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Does it? I don't think so. But you could explain where you think it says that or maybe fix it yourself. Calin99 (talk) 14:44, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

3. Agreed, this section (#8) *is* unclear. I for one hoped to see how F. was careless enough to get himself arrested. I wanted to know about the two years, arrest-to-extradition. The timeline is hazy & thus I am left curious. (But thanks for all the good work done here :)

Incomprehensible

The paragraph beginning "The current Peruvian Minister of Justice" is incomprehensible. I can't clean it up because I can't understand it. Would someone familiar with the matter please rewrite it, preferable with decent citations? - Jmabel | Talk 02:27, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Fujimori's conviction

Well, I don't think anyone is especially surprised, but he was convicted of the charges and we know that an appeal will be launched and Keiko has promised to pardon him, if elected. Lots of editing will be required to bring us up to date, but I've started the process. 201.230.127.183 (talk) 18:02, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Criminal Box?

So I noticed that despite the FACT that Abimael Guzman was sentenced to prison, he doesn't have the criminal box. Same thing with other dictators such as Saddam Hussein or [[Luis García Meza Tejada] do not have this box. Why is that this box is here? Messhermit (talk) 16:43, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Fujimori is a convicted criminal. You may request the addition of the box to the other ones if you wish Calin99 (talk) 15:28, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Born in Peru?

If I recall correctly, a documentary made by one of Peru's TV stations explained that Fujimori hadn't actually been born in Peru, but rather he was born in Japan. However, since he was so young (still a baby), his parents managed to pass him off as if he had been born in Peru. Did anyone else see the documentary or has any sources relating to this?--$%MarshalN20%$ (talk) 12:40, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Where is he now?

So what's the deal? The article says he's been sentenced to prison, but doesn't say if he's actually entered prison or not. Is he wearing stripes these days or not? (Personally I hope not. He was a great leader with some flaws. On the whole, Peru is 1000% better off for his presidency than it would have been without it. Not that that justifies what bad things he did.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.17.232.180 (talk) 15:41, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

He should've been executed for his crimes against humanity and the people of Peru. He was a murderous sub-human piece of garbage who had no place among civilized men. I hope he rots in hell. Peru is 1000% better off now that he is rotting prison, which is too good for him. You are an evil person who despises truth and justice, as he was.162.192.88.176 (talk) 08:46, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Yet more neoliberal propaganda on Wikipedia

This article is a fucking disgrace. The lustful enthusiasm for Fujimori's murderous economic fascism is palpable. I guess it's what's to be expected on a site administered for a dedicated follower of Ayn Rand. DublinDilettante (talk) 14:20, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

What I'm reading on this discussion is a bunch of people that ganged up (albeit 5 years ago) on Messhermit. Of all his mistakes, he wasn't a "wikipedian," and as a result was ganged up on. Instead of drawing on his personal experiences in a way that would benefit the article (which is possible without giving it a POV slant), several elitists either spitefully or unconsciously prevented him from contributing to this article. Granted, he went about it in the wrong way. So what's the result? The article seems to be slanted (even now, five years later) in favor of Fujimori's critics. Messhermit went about his changes in the wrong way, but his points were often valid. --Lacarids (talk) 13:49, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Reminder that capitalism is the only economic system which gives both prosperity to the majority without discarding of "unwanted elements" of society, unlike communism and fascism. Reminder that communism is a failed system and fascism has nothing to do with libertarianism, which is a system which enables people to be lazy and worthless if they want but not on the dollars of people who aren't lazy and worthless. Reminder that communists should be imprisoned to prevent another regime like the Soviet Union from ever rising again and liquidating tens of millions of people in it's quest for the perfect slave society.96.231.17.247 (talk) 21:21, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Birthplace

Why was his birthplace and birthday changed to Japan and September 26th? He was born in Miraflores, Lima, Peru on July 28th. That is a legally accepted fact. Whoever changed this did it as a pander to politically motivated conspiracy theories which are not appropriate for an encyclopedia.

ATTENTION RJFF, DENNIS BROWN AND MARK SHAW

Dear fellows, I'm not edit warring Alberto Fujimori's page. He wasn't the 90th President, he was the 45th, 46th and 47th. There is a different counting. The English Wikipedia counting is wrong. Please understand. Kind Regards Búfalo Barreto (talk) 15:15, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

In the biography of Alberto Fujimori, he isn't the 90th President of Peru. You see, I've reviewed all of the Peruvian Presidents, and there is a difference, the Constitutional Presidents and the Interim Presidents. The Interim ones are not counted with a number, only the Constitutional ones. For example:

42nd. Fernando Belaúnde Terry-(1963-1968): Constitutional President (Elected)

-. Juan Velasco Alvarado-(1968-1975): President of the Revolutionary Government-(He made a coup d'etat to Belaúnde's Government)

-. Francisco Morales Bermúdez-(1975-1980): President of the Revolutionary Government-(Velasco's successor)

43rd. Fernando Belaúnde Terry-(1980-1985): Constitutional President (Elected)

44th. Alan García Pérez-(1985-1990): Constitutional President (Elected)

45th. Alberto Fujimori-(1990-1992): Constitutional President (Elected for a 5 year term, but made a self-coup to his government in 1992, dissolving many public institutions, creating a new Constitution)

-. Alberto Fujimori-(1992-1995): President of the Emergency Government and National Reconstruction (During this short period, he signed a new constitution)

46th. Alberto Fujimori-(1995-2000): Constitutional President (Elected)

47th. Alberto Fujimori-(2000-2000): Constitutional President (Elected, but a few months later, Congress revealed videos in which his adviser gave money to the opposition (Corruption))

-. Valentín Paniagua-(2000-2001): Transitional President (After Fujimori resigned, the two VP's resigned also. In the line of succession there was the President of Congress Paniagua, who organized new elections for the next year)

48th. Alejandro Toledo-(2001-2006): Constitutional President (Elected)

49th. Alan García Pérez-(2006-2011): Constitutional President (Elected)

50th. Ollanta Humala-(2011-Present): Constitutional President (Elected)

You see, only the Constitutional ones have numbers, the others don't, because they were not elected. Since Peru became an independent country, there were Presidents who lasted 2 days, a week, a month, or even hours. I've counted the Constitutional ones, and in total there are 50. Of course, if you sum all of them there 94. That's the problem, in the United States there is more order than Peru.

The official counting is the one found in a documentary called "Historia de la República del Perú" in which lists the official an non official Presidents

I hope that you agree on my edits and make peace so Alberto Fujimori's biography is kept in peace. Thank you all, Víctor. Búfalo Barreto (talk) 17:15, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Víctor, you seem knowledgable, and make some fair points (why should US presidents have detailed info boxes, but not Peruvian ones?), but always remember that you need to provide verifiable sources. Always, and especially always for biographies of living persons! And preferably English-language sources! Best wishes from London. ColaXtra (talk) 18:32, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

You compare this to the infoboxes of American presidents, but you are not consequent. Fujimori had several consecutive terms that followed one another immediately without break. You want to present them separately. George W. Bush had two consecutive terms that followed one another immediately without break. His infobox presents them together. You complain that Fujimori's infobox was much shorter and less detailed than the ones of American presidents, but the one you proposed is considerably longer than the ones of, say, Obama or Bush. How valuable information is it to present the terms in separate fields and then write

• Preceded by: himself
• Succeeded by: himself

This is unnecessary. --RJFF (talk) 21:49, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

See also

I added the See also entry * Government involvement with the federal judiciary of Peru under Alberto Fujimori, but this could be part of the article text. Please help.--DThomsen8 (talk) 11:37, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Dual Citizenship?

It says here that Fujimori holds dual citizenship with Japan but from all I have read the Japanese government does not allow this and one nationally must be chosen on he 18th birthday, it being considered a crime to be in posession of dual passports in Japan. As no citation was given I would like to see clarification or reference.... --APDEF (talk) 02:01, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

He lives on the edge. Seriously, lots of things could of happened. 1. The Japanese decided to exempt him from that requirement. 2. He hides his Peruvian passport from the Japanese (unlikely) 3. He secretly renounced his Peruvian citizenship. (Also unlikely.) Cheers! Xsccmx (talk) 19:24, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

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Should the Article be upgraded to "Good" Status?

The Article is pretty Well-Done- a Real Masterpeice, actually- so should we qualify it for "Good Status"? It looks pretty nice, don't see much problems here... Dunutubble (talk) 00:46, 16 June 2021 (UTC)DunutubbleDunutubble (talk) 00:46, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Alberto e Keiko Fujimori em 1995.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 07:53, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Fujimori procès.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 02:32, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Presidente Alberto Fujimori.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 13:22, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Replaced the removed image with File:Al_Fujimori.jpg. aismallard (talk) 17:10, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Peruvian courts have ordered his release from prison, Dec 5th 2023

I updated the page to reflect the news but it still needs a citation and more updates as news develops. Thanks Heydre (talk) 00:26, 6 December 2023 (UTC)