Template talk:Babel

Active discussions

Findbox not a good ideaEdit

I don't think this Findbox thing can work. It's basically just an end run-around WP:TGS that allows all of the POV junk to work just as before. We shouldn't have templates reaching into userspace like that. Besides, this is Babel-X, so it should just be looking for Babel boxes located in main templatespace; no reason to delve into over a dozen userspace-hosted archives. It doesn't make sense. The whole thing is just very cross-namespace. The point of WP:TGS is to keep that inappropriate userbox content in userspace, but with {{findbox}}, that simply ain't so. --Cyde↔Weys 05:41, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

ANY of the babel templates can 'reach into userspace'. Something like, '{{babel-2|:Ashley Y/Userbox/Christian|:Boxhunter/Boxes/Kiwanis}}', works just fine. Thus 'findbox' is not allowing people to 'reach into userspace'... only helping to locate things there. I do not believe 'namespace crossing' is really an issue as the primary concern has been that we not present these 'disputed viewpoint' userboxes as things 'officially sanctioned' by Wikimedia. Keeping them in the template namespace was considered to create an incorrect impression of such 'official sanction' and thus they were moved to user space. That's the 'point' of WP:TGS... not 'to avoid namespace crossing'. Listing the locations of all the 'germanized' userboxes on some central page in an 'official' namespace like Wikipedia: or Template: would similarly be creating an 'impression of endorsement' and be a problem... creating a method of automatically locating the boxes was intended (amongst other things) to reduce the appearance of 'official sanction' by making such a list unneccessary. --CBD 11:58, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
If someone is using the example that you gave then it makes sense because they are specifically asking for something in userspace. But having the template for Babel boxes go digging through over a dozen bits in userspace is just counter-inuitive. The difference is between the userspace being supplied by the user as a parameter and the userspace being hardcoded into the template text as it is with {{findbox}}. --Cyde↔Weys 19:46, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Why? What is 'bad' about it? Yes, 'the difference is between the userspace being supplied by the user and hardcoded in the template'... and? So what? What is 'wrong' with that? You have accurately described the intended purpose of the 'findbox' template... why is making things easier for users a 'bad idea'? Should we recode things so that they have to type {{babel-x|template:user en-1|template:user de-2}} instead of just {{babel-x|en-1|de-2}}? Everything you said is true, I just don't see why it would suggest that a change is needed. --CBD 00:04, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
It's enough to make me reconsider my long-standing opposition to WP:AUM and those of you familiar with that case—and my involvement therein—will understand how much that means. I have mentioned in other places my prototype replacement for this template, which I think would help matters considerably. HTH HAND —Phil | Talk 06:42, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
The 'findbox' methodology does not appear to be noticably more 'draining on server resources' than the previous Babel-X, or the babel templates in general... all of which have always been meta-templates. Because it relies largely on parser-functions the degree of template nesting is really not as great as it might appear from the length of the logic. I know you are familiar with WP:PERF... why wouldn't that apply here? My personal guide has always been that if I can detect a performance hit then I adjust the way the template works / where it is used to eliminate or minimize that. I have redesigned several of my templates for such reasons. See {{DYK-Refresh}} or {{day+1}} for examples of things I had to rework. (Note: Those who think findbox is extreme may wish to skip these for the sake of their sanity). In this case I haven't even seen a detectable performance hit yet... and Babel-X is exclusively used on low traffic pages in the user space. --CBD 11:58, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I'd just like to note that this change is probably breaking many user pages right now. (see User:Shayl/Sandbox for an example) I don't know what other users have been doing, but I have been replacing text such as "confused" with "User:MiraLuka/Userboxes/User confused", and this no longer works. —Shayltalk 06:37, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

It's not hard to fix though, they just need to put in the actual location of the template prefaced by a semicolon. Yeah, I guess it's an inconvenience, but it'd be even more of an inconvenience leaving this thing with the userspace-snatching and then trying to fix it later on. This old Findbox system was going to lead to conflicts anyway; it resolves collisions merely by the order of the priority list of userspace archives; who decides that order? What happens when a guy who is listed further up in the priority list creates a template with the same name but a different functionality? Suddenly a bunch of userpages will change and it will be almost impossible to notice, because the old template won't have been edited; indeed, the only thing that will have changed is that there is now a new template, which couldn't possibly have been on anyone's watchlist before it was created. Getting rid of Findbox actually gives users a lot more control over exactly how their userpage is displayed. --Cyde↔Weys 06:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
It seems you have a valid argument there, but I would ask how people will know how to fix it, and even that they need to fix it. I think that the majority of people seeing a redlinked userbox will simply delete the link from their page. —Shayltalk 07:03, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
No, the 'amount of control' does not change. Users can still link directly to specific pages if they are worried about someone adding a different box with the same name. {{babel-x|:Ashley Y/Userbox/Christian|:Boxhunter/Boxes/Kiwanis}} worked just fine with 'findbox' included too. In any case, this is a hypothetical future problem... which I think is unlikely to come up very often. --CBD 10:00, 8 July 2006 (UTC)


Is there a reason why this template hasn't found its way over to the Commons, where they are still using the old Babel-1, babel-2, etc templates? lensovet 21:45, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

We're "still using the old Babel-1, babel-2, etc templates" here too. I have been working to transition towards a single babel template for a while now, but it has to be something which is accepted by the community / non-disruptive. Most people haven't even noticed that all of the old versions except the most heavily used (Babel-2 through Babel-6) have been converted or redirected to this template, because the results are the same. A version of this template can be found on Meta, but it hasn't really taken off there. I think eventually we'll get down to just one 'babel' template on most projects, but it could take a while. --CBD 17:35, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Anything stopping me from opening commons:Template:Babel and copying this template's code into it? lensovet 17:36, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Went ahead and copied the template onto the commons, updated it for cats/links, and changed all the Babel-N templates to redirects. They only went up to 18 or so there anyway. Looks and works great. lensovet 01:46, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

WP:DEUTSCH breaks thisEdit

As a result of WP:DEUTSCH, this no longer works since the templates don't follow the {{User xxx}} formula. Can we write some sort of regexp that would look for "User:" and then NOT add the {{User }} to it, simply adding curly brackets around the parameter? —lensovettalk – 06:32, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

See the 'findbox' discussion above and {{findbox}}. That's a method of locating userboxes with various different naming structures like you describe. --CBD 01:25, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

User templates with custom optionsEdit

I don't get how this can work with user templates that have custom options. Take for example: User:Llama man/Userboxes/Birthday (:Llama man/Userboxes/Birthday), where you need to add an extra | to insert another parameter. Pink moon 1287 (email • talk • user) 13:42, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

The short answer is that it doesn't. Userboxes which require parameters have to be called independently. So you might use a babel box for most of your userboxes and then include any boxes with parameters beneath it. --CBD 23:15, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
I pondered a bit more and added a 'special-boxes' parameter which can handle these. So if you include, |special-boxes={{User:Llama man/Userboxes/Birthday|June 1}} it will now include that box at the bottom of the list. --CBD 22:36, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

More options pleaseEdit

Can we get changes so that Babel recognizes all the same parameters that {{userboxtop}} recognizes. I at least want to allow for a transparent background.

On a related note, I nest my user box groups. However, the margin-left:1em; part causes problems. I would like to shut the margin-left part off when the box is nested. This is the only way I use Babel. So that option would apply to it too. Will (Talk - contribs) 08:39, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I added 'textcolor' and 'extra-css'. All of the other features of 'userboxtop' were already present in this template. Setting 'left=0' will suppress the left margin. --CBD 14:29, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

th interwikiEdit

{{editprotected}} Please add th:แม่แบบ:บาเบล for interwiki link. Thanks --Jutiphan | Talk - 06:07, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Done. Proto:: 18:18, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Edit requestEdit

In the table with the yellow bars containing the examples, one userbox has been moved through Wikipedia:Userbox migration. It should be removed, or replaced somehow. - Zero1328 Talk? 09:30, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

  Done - Harryboyles 10:24, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Please don't include 0-level usercats.Edit

Please see the March 7 2007 UCfD. Thanks. Xiner (talk, email) 00:21, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Change id="userboxes" to class="userboxes"Edit

To coincide with a recent change to Template:Userboxtop (see discussion), I'd like to request that the id="userboxes" markup be replaced with class="userboxes". This allows the same CSS classes to be used for identifying both Babel boxes and generic userbox containers. The change to Template:Userboxtop was requested to allow user pages to be XHTML valid when using multiple userbox containers. This allows the use of standard XHTML validation tools and enables scripts to be written that can show and hide userboxes using DHTML techniques. Retaining a unique attribute as a class instead of an id allows users who want to do so to still hide these boxes using personal CSS.

In the process of getting the change made to Template:Userboxtop, an exhaustive search was made of the User: namespace to see if anyone was currently using the userboxes id in their personal CSS. I was unable to find anyone using it, so the change to the other template was deemed safe and this one should be as well.

In addition, this change should also be made to {{Babel-N}}; I'm going to request the change there too and point to the discussion here. Mike Dillon 00:55, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Also, as in the case of Template:Userboxtop, the name="userboxes" attribute should be removed as well. Mike Dillon 00:57, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
{{editprotected}} done. CMummert · talk 16:30, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Interwiki linksEdit

{{editprotected}} Please remove the interwiki link to the bulgarian (bg) template. It does not at all compare to this one, and is functionally different in many respects. It belongs to another group of similar templates. These two groups should imho not be merged unless functionality has been made almost identical. --Purodha Blissenbach 14:02, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

In what way do you believe they differ? I've been looking at the bg template and this one, and they both transclude {{User x}} for each x that's given as a parameter (the bgwiki will transclude a Bulgarian equivalent if one's available instead, resulting in similar functionality), resulting in more-or-less the same box. I've tested '{{babel|en|bg}}' on both enwiki and bgwiki (previewing rather than saving), and it came out with basically the same result, so as far as I can tell, the functionality is identical. Why don't you think the interwiki is valid? --ais523 08:17, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
(I suspect the reason that this template is creating redlinks on your bgwiki userpage is that the relevant Babel userboxes don't exist on bgwiki.) --ais523 08:19, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

This might actually be a good chance to include more interwiki links. It looks like bg:Шаблон:Вавилон has quite a few more interwikis than the English version, likely due to the fact that this one is protected. It looks like Purodha Blissenbach actually entered most of the ones on the Bulgarian version recently. Mike Dillon 01:59, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

I can't tell exactly what is being requested. The easiest thing would be for you to make a list of all the interwikis that should be in the template, and I will copy it in. Please put up another editprotected at that time. CMummert · talk 13:44, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

{{editprotected}} The request is exactly to remove the bg interwiki link. These templates do not compare, even if some rudimentary functionality indeed overlaps. Do NOT import interwiki links from the Bulgarian template, please, so as not to create a big mess. --Purodha Blissenbach 15:52, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

removed. CMummert · talk 22:52, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
I still can't see how these are different. I looked at the source of bg:Шаблон:Вавилон and it seems almost identical to our template. Can you be more specific about the differences? Mike Dillon 23:48, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Volapük Babel linkEdit


Please add a link to the Volapük Babel template (which was simply copied and pasted from here, so it has precisely the same functionality). It is here. Thanks! --Smeira 12:41, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

 Y Done --ais523 12:43, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Akan, Esperanto Upper Sorbian, Udmurt, Wuu, Classical Chinese, and some more interwiki linksEdit

{{editprotected}} Please add:

[[vi:Tiêu bản:Babel]]

thank you! --Purodha Blissenbach 21:15, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

  Done. I also switched the template to use a /doc subpage so future interwikis can easily be added. Cheers. --MZMcBride 21:22, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Koine Greek (ke)Edit

The category was deleted but it's still a valid parameter for the template --Kimontalk 01:20, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

How to use this template with userboxes taking parameters?Edit

I'm using this template, and in a shortened form it looks like this:


How do I get the User contrib template to work here? I thought using the ! template would do the trick as used above, but it doesn't seem so.

This method also doesn't work:

{{Babel|align=left|Sweden|{{User contrib|1000}}}}

Northgrove 02:00, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

This used to work fine, but now I have two templates on my user page that aren't transcluded properly due to the use of the {{!}} template. Has something changed recently? I can't seem to find anything in the history or related changes for either template... Also, you are missing the wikipedia/Donor template from the above babel boxes. ~ PaulT+/C 23:40, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Oh, I made my examples more minimalistic to not clutter this page too much, but it seems I forgot to take the donor part out in the process. I've fixed that now. But yes, the problem remains. — Northgrove 22:07, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Found a workaround. Not ideal, but it works: {{Babel|Sweden|special-boxes={{User contrib|1000}}}} I'm still not sure why the original behavior broke, but this will work in the interim. ~ PaulT+/C 17:23, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

The default messageEdit

Is it a joke? WEBURIEDOURSECRETSINTHEGARDEN it seems the winds have stopped... 22:52, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

edit this page -> view sourceEdit

The "how to"-guide states that you should click "edit this page", but since it's protected it says "view source". I was going to change that snippet of text but, umm, the page was protected.. Axelv (talk) 06:40, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Hey, nevermind. I found the /doc page. Axelv (talk) 06:48, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia: ?Edit

What about boxes from the Wikipedia namespace? –xeno talk 04:16, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Passing multiple paramaters to included user boxesEdit

How can you pass multiple paramaters to included user boxes? {{Babel|Wikipedian For{{!}}year=2004{{!}}month=3{{!}}day=5}} doesn't work. ··gracefool 06:01, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Fix italian error on this babelthingEdit

From my user talk: {{editprotected}} On this babelbox →→→→ {{Babel|it-5}}, the phrase Questo utente può contribuire a livello professionale in Italiano. is grammatically correct, but it sounds awful. Please, can an admin change it to Questo utente può contribuire con un italiano a livello professionale? The i of italian stands minuscule for the italian grammar rules. Thanks :)
P.s.: take a look in my UP, i'm italian ;) --Vale maio (talk) 22:35, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Done, but you could have done that yourself since the actual template lives at {{User it-5}}. :) Ciao, Amalthea 23:07, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
Well, as I usually say, l'importante è che sia stato fatto (the important is the work done, or something similar) :). Thank you! --Vale maio (talk) 23:16, 24 May 2009 (UTC)



I can't get this to work.... -- Smjg (talk) 18:14, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

  • I'm having the same problem. I want to integrate {{user Wikipedian For|year=2002|month=12|day=14}} into my Babel box by using {{Babel|en|es-1|Wikipedian For{{!}year=2002{{!}}month=12{{!}}day=14|...}}, but it doesn't seem to be working. --Ixfd64 (talk) 18:24, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
This presumably broke with a change to the parser. I'll remove the mention of it from the docs. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 10:36, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
Is this still Not A Thing, or did it return? If it's not, why is it still mentioned in the documentation? If it *is*, a more thorough explanation (or a link to one) would be great! — ELLIOTTCABLE (talk) 09:57, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Request for editEdit

{{editprotected}} Please remove the message on top saying "This user cannot read or write any languages. Assisstance is required." (Who added that anyway? It was the inspiration for the joke userbox {{User illiterate}}.

diff from when this was added. I'm not sure how useful it is, I wouldn't mind if it was removed however. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 12:12, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
If this were to be removed, I'd like it replaced with something along the lines of You haven't set up any languages. If you require help doing this, see this page for help. Microchip08 21:46, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
That sounds like a reasonable idea.   Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 22:13, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
Aww. I liked the old message; I had it up on my userpage for years. I guess I can switch to {{User illiterate}} though. -- Soap Talk/Contributions 20:39, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Edit requestEdit

{{Editprotected}} Please add this:


...to Template:Babel/doc. /HeyMid (contributions) 22:27, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

You can do it yourself. Part of the reason for documentation subpages in the first place was so that changes such as this could be made by anyone to a protected template. The documentation subpage here is not protected, and I'm not sure that any are. Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 23:15, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Ahh, I'm so stupid again! Thanks for pointing it out. /HeyMid (contributions) 09:13, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Specify variables for the templatesEdit

Is it possible to somehow specify like a {{{1}}} or {{{2}}} variable in a template I put in this Babel template? /HeyMid (contributions) 13:52, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Not any more. It used to be possible, but a change in how the MediaWiki parser handles templates broke that. Fixing it would require a fundamental rewrite of the code AFAIK. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward: not at work) - talk 09:39, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Babel extensionEdit

The Babel extension was enabled recently, so wouldn't it make sense to replace this with {{#Babel:}}? --Yair rand (talk) 04:30, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Probably eventually, but first various template clashes should be addressed. See for example output of {{Babel|BG-3|AF-1|bot|CID|align=left}} {{#babel:BG-3|AF-1|bot|CID}}. See also mw:Thread:Extension_talk:Babel/Case_sensative_and_clashes_with_existing_user_templates. --Jarekt (talk) 18:57, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

{{Babel|BG-3|AF-1|bot|CID|align=left}} {{#babel:BG-3|AF-1|bot|CID}}

Error in it-1Edit

Hi, I'm using the template with {{#babel:it-1}} and the result displays a double un (Questo utente può contribuire con un un livello elementare in italiano). I don't know where I can fix that, since Template:User it-1 has different text.--Morel (talk) 12:27, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Probably here?--Morel (talk) 12:32, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Edit requestEdit

Add a shadow parameter by inserting {{#ifeq:{{{shadow|}}}|yes|{{box-shadow|0px|2px|4px|rgba(0,0,0,0.2)}}|}} like this:

{| class="userboxes" style="float: {{{align|right}}}; margin-left: {{{left|1}}}em; margin-bottom: {{{bottom|0.5}}}em; width: {{{width|248}}}px; border: {{{bordercolor|#99B3FF}}} solid {{{solid|1}}}px; clear: {{{align|right}}}; color: {{{textcolor|#000000}}}; {{#ifeq:{{{shadow|}}}|yes|{{box-shadow|0px|2px|4px|rgba(0,0,0,0.2)}}|}} {{{extra-css|}}}"
! style="background-color: {{{color|inherit}}}; text-align: center" colspan="10" | {{{header|[[Wikipedia:Babel]]}}}

Then the shadow can be enabled by putting {{babel|lang1|lang2|etc|shadow=yes}}. benzband (talk) 13:48, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps you could put your proposed code on the /sandbox and test it works properly? Please reactivate request when ready. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:57, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
Aye, {{babel/sandbox|en|shadow=yes}} produces the box on the right. benzband (talk) 15:11, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
  Done -- WOSlinker (talk) 15:17, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
  Thank you. benzband (talk) 15:54, 26 May 2012 (UTC)


The doc of this template is adding the template to a bunch of categories because of the demonstrations used. The template is now in Category:ru-N among others. How can this be stopped?  Liam987(talk) 18:05, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Category suppression might contain helpful information. Hyacinth (talk) 05:57, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
Another use case: I want the Babel box both on my user page and my talk page, but I don't want both to be categorized. A parameter for category suppression would be nice. - Soulkeeper (talk) 17:32, 19 December 2013 (UTC)


See Template_talk:User_iso15924#Supercats and Template_talk:User_en#Category:User_en. Hyacinth (talk) 06:47, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

It appears that this template still creates some redundant categories, such as with {{#babel:simple-3}}, which creates both Cat:User simple and Cat:User simple-3. Hyacinth (talk) 12:03, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Edit requestEdit

  • Issue: when {{Babel}} is used, it adds Category:User en-N automatically. (The user only can op out by setting nocat=true). This is wrong, as the user does not add {{Babel}} to state that he or she is native English speaker, he or she does so to specify (other) languages and levels.
  • Change: please remove this code: <includeonly>{{#ifeq: {{lc:{{{nocat|false}}}}} | false | [[Category:User en-N]] |<!-- Category suppressed -->}}</includeonly>
  • Effect: The category (now 48000 pages) will be filled only with those who opted in by explicitly stating {{Babel|en-N}}. -DePiep (talk) 11:03, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
  Done --Redrose64 (talk) 14:53, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
For what it is worth: now the cat has ~30000 users listed. -DePiep (talk) 22:16, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Proposal: remove supercat from userboxes with levelEdit

I propose to remove any parent category from userboxes when levels are used.

As User:Hyacinth pointed out here, some userboxes add a parent category. But since any page in a category is member of any parent category (or supercat), this adding is redundant.

Example: when using {{User et-3}} on a userpage, that page is added to Category:User et-3 and to parent Category:User et. The parent one should go. -DePiep (talk) 11:31, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

A complete list is in Category:Language user templates. -DePiep (talk) 12:21, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
The problem with this is that it will make the userboxes inconsistent with the {{#babel:}} technique (see mw:Extension:Babel): {{#babel:en-N|fr-2}} categorises into Category:User en Category:User en-N Category:User fr Category:User fr-2. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:59, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
I understand that {{#babel:}} adds those categories, but further does not depend on them. Is there any other Wiki dependency (i.e. any WP structure that somehow of requires both cats to exist)? Or is it just for users eyes & clicks? -DePiep (talk) 07:53, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

Edit requestEdit

The line }}{{#if:|{{User {{{2}}}|}} has an extra pipe (highlighted in red) that should be removed. Dlrohrer2003 20:16, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

True; removed. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:26, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
Thank you. Dlrohrer2003 21:36, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Families of languagesEdit

So far, Babel has been designed for individual languages. However, with a good knowledge of some languages in a family of languages, one can usually read texts written in related languages and their dialects. Because of a certain proliferation of dialects, I would now be forced to state some 20 Dutch and German dialects, as well as Scandinavian and Frysian languages, and also some ten Romanic languages, almost all of them at level-1. I notice similar problems in the West of Africa, and I must assume they are there for native speakers of one of the Slavic languages. So please extend or change the Babel system such that it becomes possible to indicate families of languages without having to state all the family members one by one. DrMennoWolters (talk) 09:47, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

The babel userboxes should be consistent with the {{#babel:}} technique (see mw:Extension:Babel). Are these dialects are provided within that? --Redrose64 (talk) 15:39, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
I am not aware that your link has anything to do with dialects. DrMennoWolters (talk) 16:06, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
The idea is that something like {{babel|en-5|fr-3|de-2|it-1}} should behave similarly to {{#babel:en-5|fr-3|de-2|it-1}} If one form provides more codes than the other, that's an inconsistency. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:52, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

I am not discussing any difference between the techniques of Babel and #Babel, whatever they may be. What I am saying is that with my knowledge of Dutch, English and German (which is not unusual in Europe), I am able to understand texts in Frysian, Saksisch, Limburgs, Vlaams, Dansk, Norsk, Svensk and a number of dialects that are spoken in parts of Germany. However, I don't want to state all these dialects and related languages on my user page. Babel and #Babel should offer a general solution for this problem, even if the problem does not rise in the English language. DrMennoWolters (talk) 22:17, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Since there are a lot of different Wikipedias, which must recognose the same language codes as each other, there's nothing we can safely do on English Wikipedia, so it needs to be altered centrally. You would need to file a feature request at bugzilla. At the first few menus, select "Product: MediaWiki extensions" and "Component: Babel". --Redrose64 (talk) 23:00, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Capitalisation of categoriesEdit

A few days ago I did a big tidyup of uncategorised categories, and found many "User xx" type categories which had no parent category. I added parent categs for dozens of them, and noticed that some seemed to be wrongly capitalised. So I nominated them at WP:CFD/S for speedy renaming:

However, it now seems that at least one of them is intended to in uppercase. In the section above #Babel_extension it seems that "User BG" relates to bitmap graphics rather to the Bulgarian language of Category:User bg.

Are there any other such clashes in this list? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 07:04, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

That would require some bot work to find out definitively. You would have to go through the whole two lists of language codes (here and here) to check which have existing categories. Then you'd have to find out whether those categories are for the correct language name - this might be possible by searching for the language name in the category wikitext and flagging pages that don't contain it for human inspection. And if someone is willing to take the trouble to do that, then we may as well check whether we have any template clashes either, so that this template can be switched to use the #babel parser function without changing people's languages around. I'd ask at WP:Bot requests and see what people there say. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 13:08, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
Too much work for me. I am not a Babel specialist; I was just trying to clean uncategorised categories. So I have taken an easier path. I have deleted the empty categories, and will remove the speedy tags from the others. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:41, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
@BrownHairedGirl: I've been attempting a little bot work of my own, and I've managed to assemble a list of duplicate babel categories. This list is from the database dump taken on February 3, 2014, so changes since then are not reflected. (Mostly that's the categories you deleted, but there could be other creations or deletions.)
Hope this is of some use. :) — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 10:28, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
Aha, I believe I have just found the culprit behind these incorrectly-capitalised categories. See User:Babel AutoCreate and its contributions. This is probably worth filing a bug over, or it's going to be an endless struggle trying to delete categories that have been created by the bot after users who don't know any better use capitals in their #babel invocations. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 14:20, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
I've just blocked the bot - I noticed that it had recreated Category:User Yi, which I deleted the other day. (The correct category is at Category:User yi.) It would be nice to have it create legitimate new categories for rarer languages that users add to #babel, but at this point it seems to be doing more harm than good to our category system. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 09:12, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 9 July 2014Edit

100 {{#if:}} is a bad way to go, and creates a bit more inclusion than necessary. I've modulized this to Module:Babel, and the exact code for invocation is currently on the sandbox. I've tested every parameter and added a couple of random users' babel calls to Template:Babel/testcases, and everything works as expected.

If this request is accepted and fulfilled by an admin, can the admin please also permanently template-protect the module that implements this template? If a template editor fulfills this request, I'll just go to WP:RPP. moluɐɯ 13:23, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

  Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit template-protected}} template. I object to the module on the grounds there is no need for it to be limited to 100 calls via a module. for i=2,100,1 do. Please fix the module so it can do an unlimited number of calls. — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 13:29, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
@Technical 13: The module should work now to perform an unlimited number of calls. moluɐɯ 13:36, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Seems to work fine on the testcases page, but of little use reading Lua modules. I have no further objection to this at this time. — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 13:40, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
I'm briefly deactivating my own request, because I seem to have forgotten a parameter. I'll reactivate when I make sure everything is fine. moluɐɯ 13:47, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
I apologize about that. I've added the parameter (luckily it wasn't a hard one), and updated the test cases page to include it. I also went over the diff a couple more times and found a problem with another parameter. That is now fixed as well. Everything still works as expected. moluɐɯ 13:55, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

  Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 16:15, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Parameter "date"Edit

Search user languages

The code {{babel|date}} gives whats on the right side. It could be done in a better way. Instead of using "File:Crystal Clear app date.png" it could use "File:Crystal Clear app date D{{LOCALDAY2}}.png" and that will call "File:Crystal Clear app date D21.png" (with correct number for that day). So, the number in the image to the left will be correct, not just the text. /Hangsna (talk) 22:02, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 6 January 2015Edit

  Moved from Module talk:Babel: 20:45, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

I went ahead and improved the raw semantics of how the module works. Removed several extraneous assignments and methods to improve the code. I added several comments to the module as well. The one functionality change made is that the colspan attribute in the header and footer are now dynamic (currently technically limited to 10).

The new code to replace this is on Module:Babel/sandbox, and it is performing exactly as expected. moluɐɯ 18:18, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

  Done. Do let me know of any problems — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:47, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Added code for {{#Babel in a parameterEdit

Hallo. I just added some code to the module sandbox. The code enable to put the parser function {{#Babel into a parameter. I works very fine and I tested this code in three other wikipedias.


I use a little bit tricky code during the use of the module and template.

But I don't know, why some categories are at the end of this discussion page now. In the other wikis, where I added the code, there are not such categories in the template and discussion pages. Greetings --Tlustulimu (talk) 13:14, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

What's the #b# for? --Redrose64 (talk) 19:46, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
I've commented out the code in the OP's comment that was displaying the userboxes and causing the incorrect categorization. DexDor (talk) 07:47, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Simple English levelsEdit

I've been trying to tidy up some categories and came across the Category:User simple hierarchy, which seems a bit of a mess. My personal view is that it may not be very meaningful to talk about levels of reading Simple English, there's a definite skill to writing it and so it is meaningful to talk of levels of skill, even if the text should be tweaked to reflect the fact that it is about content creation. I've got no problem with the templates existing. However, per Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/User/Archive/February_2008#Category:User_simple_and_all_subcategories there seems to be a consensus against level categories of Simple English and Category:User simple-3 has been deleted 9 times. So there needs to be some kind of reconciliation between the two - I had a look to see if this has been attempted before and couldn't find anything other than #Supercats above which suggests part of the problem is that some of the templates are generating both parent and daughter categories. I've knocked off some -N's but I get nervous going any deeper - could someone take a look? Le Deluge (talk) 03:05, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

We should not be deciding this locally, since the babel system is supposed to be the same across all Wikipedias. Thus, if {{#babel:simple-2|en-N}} works at simple: it must work in the same way here. If we want language level categories to be removed, we should ask the devs to take them out of the Babel extension. --Redrose64 (talk) 00:26, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Programming languagesEdit

It would be neat if this template supported programming language proficiencies as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Niedzielski (talkcontribs) 15:11, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

Removing the footerEdit

Is there a way to remove the footer so that it doesn't appear? I've been trying to use Template:Babel-N to get rid of it via a custom footer, but I haven't had any success so far. Zupotachyon (talk) 18:57, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Hatting a Babel tableEdit

Is there a way to hat the Babel table? I know that you can do so with a userbox table but I was wondering if something to the same effect could also be achieved with Babel. Zupotachyon (talk) 19:05, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Redirected categoriesEdit

Category:User en-GB, Category:User pt-BR, Category:User zh-Hans and Category:User zh-Hant are all redirects to alternate capitalisations; however many user pages are in them and will not move over despite correcting the capitalisation on their pages. Can someone with the know-how take a look at these pages and see if they can spot where the template has gone wrong. Timrollpickering (talk) 08:54, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Like I keep posting, it's not templates but part of the MediaWiki software. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:24, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 10 April 2017Edit

For each language box, change the the text "This user" (Dieser Benutzer, Cet utilisateur, etc) into a wikilink to the user's page on that wiki.

For example, taking code 'FR-3' as an example: the text inside the box is now:

Cet utilisateur peut contribuer avec un niveau '''[[:Category:User fr-3|avancé]]''' de '''[[:Category:User fr|français]]'''.

After the change:

Grab the pagename, and if it doesn't match "User:" + someUserId, then output the text as above.

If it does match, then 'someUserId' is a UserId; in that case, output this text instead:

[[:fr:User:someUserId|Cet utilisateur]] peut contribuer avec un niveau '''[[:Category:User fr-3|avancé]]''' de '''[[:Category:User fr|français]]'''.

Note: Even though a fr-wiki user page would normally have the prefix 'Utilisateur:', I note that in fact, 'User:' works there, and also works on all foreign wikis that I have checked. So the prefix 'User:' can remain fixed in the link, irrespective of what language prefix it follows. Mathglot (talk) 23:41, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

  Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit template-protected}} template. This is a nontrivial change and requires consensus. – Train2104 (t • c) 00:48, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
@Mathglot: It can't be done as a change to Template:Babel, since that is merely a wrapper. You would need to change the individual langauge templates. There are typically five to seven for each language, for example: Template:User fr-0; Template:User fr-1; Template:User fr-2; Template:User fr-3; Template:User fr-4; Template:User fr-5; and Template:User fr. There are also sets for approximately 320 different languages, so you are proposing that a change be made to each one of something like two thousand individual templates.
As regards the fact that "User:" works on French Wikipedia, this is because the system language of the MediaWiki software is English, so English terms for namespaces are understood by all Wikis in all languages. Each one is locally configured to accept localised terms as aliases for the English terms. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 08:59, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for the response. It's not worth changing hundreds of templates just to have some convenient links. Would've been a nice improvement, and I imagined a different underlying design that would've made it easy; but alas, no. Oh, well. Thanks for the explanation of the aliases; I kind of intuited that, but was nice to hear that that's actually how it works. Mathglot (talk) 09:11, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Error in gl-NEdit

The text for native level Galician is missing a word. It's displayed as "Este ten o galego coma lingua nai", when it should be "Este usuario ten o galego coma lingua nai". As it is right now, it would be like saying "This has Galician as a native language" in English. Could an admin correct it? --DaniRivas (talk) 12:49, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

  Not done: According to the page's protection level you should be able to edit the page yourself. If you seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details.
It's Template:User gl-N which needs editing, and it isn't protected. gl 0-4 already contain usuario.
  Done, just spotted how new your account is - and I wouldn't be so cruel as to force someone to dive into templates so soon. If you create your userpage on meta: it'll magically appear on all the wiki projects where you don't already have a userpage. Hope you enjoy your time on the wiki. Thanks for spotting the error. Regards, Cabayi (talk) 13:52, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

I see, thanks a lot for your time.--DaniRivas (talk) 17:14, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

"Other Wikis" Documentation InaccurateEdit

The "Use on other wikis" section claims:

The page you are now reading is the actual Babel template. If you click "edit this page", you will see a bunch of computer code that makes the Babel boxes work. What you're now reading is just documentation for that code, transcluded inside "<noinclude>" tags so it doesn't interfere with the computer code. In order to have Babel boxes on another Wikimedia project, just copy this page to that project. Click "view source" and copy all the contents, including the computer code. Create a page called "Template:Babel" on the other Wikimedia project and put the content into it.

But the actual source of the Babel page consists only of {{#invoke:Babel|main}}. Someone who knows more than I about the structure of lua modules and how they work on wikis should update this section with accurate info/instructions. Is it enough to simply copy over the Module:Babel page, or are there other important things that it depends on as well? NotTheInferno (talk) 09:36, 5 February 2018 (UTC)


Why are the texts of some Babel boxes italicized and some not? (see my userpage; and the documentation page). It's not super aesthetically pleasing; is there an easy fix to this? – Gormflaith (talk) 15:02, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

@Gormflaith: Instead of {{Babel|en|de-3|cmn-2|ru-1|ga-1|sco-1}} (which is the old method), use {{#babel:en|de-3|cmn-2|ru-1|ga-1|sco-1}} (the new way). See mw:Extension:Babel#Usage. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:18, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
Alright, thanks for the advice! – Gormflaith (talk) 22:01, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

Wiki languageEdit

Hi, I'm trying to change the wikilanguage entry on my version of the template (eg Template:User wiki lang-3) but I can't seem to find other versions of wiki or wikilanguage that work (trying wiki-2 gives the redlink Template:User wiki-2, for example). Here's the code that I'm using (in plaintext):


  1. Is there something I'm doing wrong? Have the parameters been updated to something else?
  2. Is it necessary to change the order of the parameters or is that taken care of when invoking the extension?
  3. Has the template simply not been updated or are there template redirects in use?

Thanks in advance. Techhead7890 (talk) 08:42, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

@Techhead7890: The old {{babel}} template and the newer {{#babel:}} parser function are for human languages, such as English, French and German - not for computer languages. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 11:48, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
Hello, I understand the primary point of the template is indeed languages, but it was previously supported in the past (well, many years ago). As I mentioned, writing the above code returns a redlinked template (for most numbers), not an error in babel itself. (I have since discovered that the only reason why Template:User wiki-3 works is that it is indeed a template redirect to the current title)
Given that, has the support for indicating familiarity with markup discontinued since then? If so, would there be any meaning in changing the template be edited to reflect that? Techhead7890 (talk) 12:38, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
Put simply: if the template doesn't exist, you get a redlink. Complicated version: the {{babel}} template tries to convert its parameters into the names of templates, which are assumed to exist. Only the templates for human languages were set up with the full 0...5 set. Moral: don't rely on something doing what it wasn't designed to do. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:41, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 22 August 2018Edit

  Moved from Module talk:Babel: 20:45, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

Parameter to suppress categories in userboxes |nocat=yes is not supported by Module:Babel. It seems from this edit of Template:Babel, that it was supported some time ago.

I've added support of parameter "nocat". The new code is on Module:Babel/sandbox, and it is performing as expected. Note, that in new testcase page is added to Category:User pas and Category:User haskell, but not added to Category:User java and Category:User bash. My changes also include a small refactoring: extraction of function showUserbox. —⁠andrybak (talk) 15:27, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

  Done Galobtter (pingó mió) 05:57, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 11 September 2019: |bordercolor= parameterEdit

Please change line 28 of the module source code, which currently reads:

						border = (bordercolor or '#99B3FF') .. ' solid ' .. (args.solid or 1)..'px'


						border = (args.bordercolor or '#99B3FF') .. ' solid ' .. (args.solid or 1)..'px'

While my facility with Lua is limited, I believe the use of the |bordercolor= parameter in the Babel template is currently ignored by the parser without this change, which matches my experience while recently adding the template to my user page and finding that said parameter had no effect for either hex code or named CSS color values. —JewelleL57 (talk) 21:15, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

@JewelleL57:   Done. --Ahecht (TALK
) 14:45, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
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