Talk:Hogwarts/Archive 1

Location

There was lots of discussion on Talk:Harry Potter about whether it's in Scotland or not. It is - for more, please see that talk page. For convenience here is one piece of evidence from there: "Hogwarts ... Logically it had to be set in a secluded place, and pretty soon I settled on Scotland in my mind." Fraser, L., An interview with J.K. Rowling, Mammoth, London, 2000. ISBN 0-7497-4394-8. pp 20-21. Nevilley 11:52 Jan 21, 2003 (UTC)

I'd say no to it's in Scotland. Yes, there are good reasons to think it's in Scotland, but the book never states that: ask yourself why ? Perhaps does Scotland not even exist in the fictional world that the book describes ;-) Even the fact that J.K.Rowlings gets her inspiration from Scotland does not mean that she thinks that the Castle has to be in Scotland. It just has to be in a secluded place, and in order not to perturbate the readers, she makes them think that that secluded place might be Scotland. (Although some readers appear not to think the expected way.) The difference, of course, is slight, and perhaps I'm just being pedantic here, but it feels significant to me. That's akin to the difference between fact and fiction. --FvdP 19:59 12 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Having written that, I just read this: In one of the Comic Relief books (Fabulous Beasts and Where To Find Them), the author mentions that a nest of horrific giant spiders (I forget the exact name) has been rumoured to exist in a forest in Scotland. There is an annotation by Harry (or Ron) that says "confirmed by Harry Potter and Ron Weasley". Presumably this refers to when they meet Aragog in Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets. (in Talk:Harry Potter) so yes, maybe is Hogwarts in Scotland after all... --FvdP 20:05 12 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I think if there is a lack of clarity in the articles, it's better to make the articles clearer, and to add the references there, rather than doing so in the talk pages. Otherwise the same questions will come up again and again. -- Oliver P. 01:37 13 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Good idea --FvdP

I think the fact that the author says it's in Scotland does a lot to clear up the 'unclarity', doesn't it? -- Someone else 01:44 13 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Except that she says "Scotland in my mind" not "Scotland in the book"  ;-) --FvdP 17:37 13 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Click on map to read explanations.

About the localisations of the schools I hace produced the following map. Click on the map for the text that details the reason for the locations. Please feel free to discuss. I am seriously interested in knowing what you guys think.Lag 21:53, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Mapping the School

The school does not appear on Muggle maps, but it is not "unplottable": Harry gets hold of an enchanted map showing every passge, corridor and room in Hogwarts' grounds and where any person in the grounds is (see Marauder's Map). shows .... --Uncle Ed 19:43 12 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I've removed "The school is unplotable (cannot found on a map)". According to this page in "The Harry Potter Lexicon", "Hogwarts also has wards and spells on it to hide its true nature from Muggles, but it is apparently not Unplottable." -- Oliver P. 01:37 13 Jun 2003 (UTC)

• Unplottable may meean it's location cannot be mapped, but this would not prevent a map of Hogwarts such as the Maurauder's Map, which does not reveal the location. Supersaiyanplough|^(talk) 11:46, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

This is a fairly dumb discussion, but isn't the map really more of a bunch of names moving around and the names of buildings and objects rather than maps? Dan 23:25, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Ravenclaw

One quick correction that should be made: The mascot of the Ravenclaw house is not the eagle, but the Raven, hence the name. The eagle, especially in American mythology, has been a symbol of courage and morality, not for intelligence. The raven on the other hand has long been a symbol of intelligence in mythology and literature.

• Sorry, but you are wrong. When Warner Brothers started to make the movie, they changed it to a raven for their movies, to make it flow, but traditionally Ravenclaw is represented by an eagle. And it really doesn't matter what symbols were in mythology and literature, because, though influenced by mythology and literature, this is J.K.Rolwing's book, and she may do what she pleases with it. Billvoltage 04:01, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Moving this page

If anyone wishes to move this page, could they please use the "Move this page" function, to preserve the article history? Thanks. I'm not sure a move is necessary, though. The school is often referred to as just "Hogwarts", and the opening line gives the full name anyway. -- Oliver P. 16:35, 18 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Rooms in the School

If you have an article here on the Chamber of Secrets, you should also have one on the other rooms at Hogwarts. Your description of the school houses are very short. The writer didn't go into a lot of detail. User:12.203.10.240

Wikipedia is a collaborative project - anyone is free to edit the articles, to add to them, and to improve them in any way that they see fit. There is no single "writer" responsible for any of the articles. Anyone who comes here is free to write in any of the articles. Including you. If you think the article can be improved, just go for it! :) -- Oliver P. 21:32, 18 Aug 2003 (UTC)

---

I moved the stuff about the Chamber of Secrets to the part about the founding of the school. It fits better there.

Filius Flitwick's first name

I listed Filius as Flitwick's first name, because the Harry Potter Lexicon said "Warwick Davis, in an interview with Comingsoon.com, indicated that JKR had told him that Flitwick's first name was Filius," and, as it was noted at the Lexicon, this may be second-hand, but it's still canon.

Detention at Hogwarts page

The Detention at Hogwarts page has turned out to be copyed from the Harry Potter Lexicon. The link here has been deleted until further notice. This is due to my beilef that the author didn't realize the "no copyrighting policy" and we may want to recreate the link if the author replaces this article with an orginal one.

The author of Detentions at Hogwarts page has decided to let the page be deleted. The page has now been deleted.

---

Hi, I'm back! I've noticed my absence has gone completly unoticed.

== Too long? ==http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogwarts Article

I like the article pretty much but isn't it too long being one article? Can we split off some sections? -- Taku

I don't think it is too long. It's less than 30kb. There isn't really anything substantial enough to split off. We don't want to end up with lots of stub relating to Harry Potter, which is why I think they have been merged in here. Angela 07:12, Oct 18, 2003 (UTC)

One possibility is to split off the floor directory into a linked article. Its already very long and there are several rooms which are still not listed. Jarwulf 04:40, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Wholehearted agreement that we should split off the floor directory - it may be interesting but it really bogs down the rest of the article. A linked article for this section would be a much, much better idea - a bit like an appendix to the main article, which is what that kind ofexhaustive information list really is. Peeper 10:22, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

I've split off the floor directory. I'm wondering whether the grounds section should go too and be consolidated with the directory. Jarwulf 02:50, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Image

What's the status on the image heading this article? Has Warner Brothers released it into the public domain? I find this extremely dubious, especially given the watermark present on it. - Korath 02:25, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Ravenclaw's mascot

Concerning Ravenclaw's mascot: even though the raven is symbolically associated with intelligence rather than the eagle and I would have liked the raven to be Ravenclaw's mascot as it really makes more sense, I still think the eagle is the mascot of Ravenclaw House.

Some pieces of proof include:

• Chapter Three (The Letters from No One) from Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, where Hogwarts' coat of arms on the envelope is described as "a lion, an eagle, a badger and a snake surrounding a large letter 'H'"
• The Harry Potter Lexicon's entry on Ravenclaw (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/hogwarts/houses/ravenclaw.html), where Ravenclaw's animal is listed as "eagle". The sidebar also features a possible reason for Ravenclaw's mascot not being a raven.
• The fact that Gryffindor's mascot is not a griffin or a hippogriff, despite what its name suggests, and
• The card "Ravenclaw Eagle" from the Harry Potter Trading Card Game as part of a cycle of cards featuring the mascots of the houses.

I hope the proof is sufficient to warrant my editing the article to that effect. Sinistro 22:50, 22 May 2004 (UTC)

Some anti-proof and assorted comments:

• the coat of arms on the first pages of the books clearly shows a lion with wings (maybe you should care about that a bit more than about the thing from the movies)
• the Hufflepuffs play Quidditch in yellow robes, not golden. Yellow on gold wouldn't show clearly though, so i guess it wouldn't be allowed in heraldry. gold on gold isn't possible though, so the whole coat doesn't work that way ("no metal on metal, no color on color"). according to the coat depicted in the books, field III is black. that would work. cfr. http://www.rarebooks.nd.edu/digital/heraldry/colors.html
• the badger is proper, not sable.
• if you took above comment about the Ravenclaw eagle seriously, you'd have to mention the black talons in the blazon. But what about the beak? Also black?

Uniform

I suspect there to be some movie contamination in the description of the Hogwarts uniform: I don't recall anything except robes being described in the books. --Phil | Talk 13:49, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)

• Actually Phil, I have my soft-back copy of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone right here, and it says:

"Uniform

• First year students will require:
  • 1. Three sets of plain work robes (black)
  • 2. One plain pointed hat (black) for day wear
  • 3. One pair of protective glvoes (dragon hide or similar)
  • 4. One winter cloak (black, silver fastenings)
• Please note that all pupils' clothes should carry name tags"

It goes on to discuss the books pupils will need, their wands, and a short note about pets and broomsticks. It has four items that clealy say UNIFORM before them, and thus, are a school uniform. Billvoltage 04:18, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

---

This article is weird. Fiction gets carried so far and the description is so detailed for something fictional. Nicely written however. — Stevey7788 (talk) 05:19, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Maybe this shouldn't be on the talk page, but I've always had a problem with the way the uniforms were represented in the movies. If wizards dress so strangely to muggle viewer's, why would children in school wear regular shirts and ties? If most wizards can't even pretend to dress normally when they have to go to muggle towns, why do the children dress as if at a regular boarding school? Whatever, maybe I'm just picky. ABart26 20:55, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

ABart, you aren't the only one. Starting in the third film, the children started to abandon their uniforms. This isn't relevant to the article, but yes, they started getting relaxed with their choice of costumes. It was likely done for the movie to relate the trio more to the audience of children. However, do note that the uniform note above says "First year students will require…" so it may be that after that it is no longer required. Still, it is an unfortunate liberty they took in the movies. --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 21:10, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Origin of the name 'Hogwarts'

Rowling has said that she doesn't recall where she got the name 'Hogwarts'. In a couple of interviews (linked to below), she ventured that she may have been exposed to the name on a visit to Kew Gardens, where apparently a type of lily called 'Hogwarts' can be seen.

Hence, I would like to delete the following statement from the article: "J.K. Rowling took the name Hogwarts from a fictional Latin play in a Molesworth book by Geoffrey Willans."

http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/articles/1999/0999-familyeducation-abel.htm

http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/articles/2001/1001-sydney-renton.htm

#Portkey

User:Lord Voldemort changed a link to the Portkey section in the article Magical objects in Harry Potter so that it now links to the main article and not the section. Was there a reason to do it? --Jotomicron | talk 30 June 2005 20:31 (UTC)

Whoops, my mistake. I'll check on that. --Lord Voldemort ^{(Dark Mark)} 16:24, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Fixed now. --Lord Voldemort ^{(Dark Mark)} 16:27, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

The Future of Hogwarts

There would have to be #some# educational institute in Britain - and Hogwarts is there.

What would happen in the UK is that it would be renamed, rearranged and continue.

If anyone wishes to develop this fanficwise, please do so. jackiespeel

Headteacher: spoiler?

{{spoiler}} Isn't listing McGonagall as acting headteacher a bit of a book 6 spoiler? I know it's true, but maybe we should wait a bit before revealing it here, to give everyone a chance to finish the book... --Urbane legend 14:57, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

I stuck a {{spoiler}} on top. --Deathphoenix 15:27, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

Well I could have done that I suppose :-) But it also says it in the box under the picture, too. Maybe there should be nothing there about the headteacher at all? I'll remove it, in the spirit of being bold, and we can debate it if anyone thinks it should be put back. --Urbane legend 21:58, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

Hmmm. The template doesn't allow it. Does anyone else even think this is important, or is it just me? --Urbane legend 22:03, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

Yes it is a spoiler - it ruined the book for me. --Guest 14:46, 20 November 2005 (EST)

The idea that there is a "current" head of Hogwarts is nonsense. The Harry Potter universe is a work a fiction, and it is standard written practice to write about fiction in the perpetual present. It doesn't make any sense for an infobox about a fictional entity to have sections that purport to contain "current" information. The section should simply be removed. Nohat 18:57, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

There is a current Head Of Hogwarts if you are going by the current book, and yes since it's fiction, there is no Hogwarts at all.

Hogwarts house point section history

Considering it is from another article, I had to add the list of contributions considering it is required under the GFDL. MessedRocker 00:57, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

1. (cur) (last) 12:32, July 24, 2005 Alarm (add context - especially the rather important fact that this is fictional)
2. (cur) (last) 10:36, July 24, 2005 Joel7687 m
3. (cur) (last) 18:04, July 19, 2005 65.6.44.182
4. (cur) (last) 13:21, July 19, 2005 66.31.35.185

History of Magic classroom location?

While I'm sure the school is quite magical, the History of Magic classroom is probably on only one floor at a time, not the first and fourth simultaneously.

• The link given to the Harry Potter Lexicon lists it as being on the first floor, so I'm going with that. WayneC 05:04, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Floor Directory?

Would a floor directory similar to the one seen in the Ministry of Magic article be possible here? --BoboDaHobo 20:28, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Technically, that list you mentioned is already compiled in book 5. A similar list for Hogwarts would have to be compiled by hand, and i don't think anyone is doing that... -- Jokes Free4Me 16:13, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Annual advancement

the article seems to imply that students need to pass exams to move up to the next year. This is not normally a feature of british education and I do not remember anything in the books suggesting it. rather, it seems more likely that you move up with your classmates despite your poor achievements.Sandpiper 21:41, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

You need to score at a certain levels on the OWL for a subject to be allowed to move up to NEWT level classes in that subject. Remember in book 6 when (SPOILER AHEAD SPOILER AHEAD SPOILER AHEAD) Harry almost wasn't able to take NEWT level Potions because while he'd passed, Snape only allowed top-scorring students into his NEWL level classes? --Icarus 03:39, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

DES???

It is mentioned that the school has a high degree of autonomy from the DES. Does that explain why I have been unable to discover its Ofsted report? Or does that mean that a better phrasing would be that it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the DES or any mainstream educational or governmental organisation. Sandpiper 22:10, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

lol, for a moment I thought you were serious! Cute :-) --Icarus 03:35, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm the author of the offending mention, just trying to keep the serious encyclopaedic tone we must try to maintain on Wikipedia ;). If anybody really objects, feel free to remove it, but I don't see anything wrong with the phrasing - the Muggle government is mentioned in HBP, so making clear what Hogwarts's relationship is with the Muggle DfES (DfES, by the way) seems fine to me. Perhaps a little wry, but can we really be 100% serious when this is an article about Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry? Peeper 10:16, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Fanfic?

• "the West Castle, which holds ... the Sario Hall..."
• "Ravenclaw is on the fourth floor facing the North Courtyard, and beside Fervens Hall and the Statue of Stela the Saviour."

Where do the Sario Hall and Fervens Hall come from? I don't remember them from any of the books. I suppose it's possible for Ravenclaw to be on the west side of the castle but face the North Courtyard. I'm just wondering if some of these details are taken from fanfic(s), rather than the actual books. --158.152.22.26 02:07, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't remember a Sario Hall or Fervens Hall either, but they could be coming from the official video games or another legit source. I'd prefer a reference too, but I'm giving these the benefit of the doubt. --Icarus 07:07, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't believe these comments are current any longer (as I could find no reference to 'Sario' or 'Fervens' in the article), but nevertheless this points out precisely why citations are needed. Especially for any obscure bits of trivia. fruitofwisdom 03:13, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Student Numbers

Somewhere I recall a discussion about the number of students, but I can't find it. Anyway, in HBP p379 uk, Hagrid says Yer expect accidents, don' yeh, with hundreds of under-age wizards all locked up tergether. Now, some languages use different words to differentiate number plurals, eg for 2 hundreds, or 3 hundreds or whatever. Maybe this doen't help much, but the phrasing in english would suggest at least 3 hundreds, i would think. Sandpiper 17:43, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

I've just removed the total for 'enrollment' in the table. We have the rough figure of 1000 which is speculative enough (based on comments in an interview I think -reference to that would be helpful), but until we can provide evidence of the number of students entering I don't think there's any point battering the article reader with 280 here and 40 there and 1000 divided by the number of year groups...seems to be straying into speculation. Happy for others to disagree or put a number back, but it just needs to be backed up by evidence and not mired in inconsistency - particularly as JK Rowling has consistently expressed her reservations about trying to find mathematical rigidity in the series. Peeper 12:49, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Somebody made this addition to the table:However in 'The Chamber of Secrets' Rowling writes that there are 5 new boys and 5 new girls in each house, in each new year. Therefore the logical conclusion is that there are about 40 students per year and roughly 280 in total.

I have removed this edit, not out of criticism but just because it doesn't add anything to what is already contained in the table. If the general feeling is that we should pick one of the numbers and run with it that's fine, do go ahead...but my personal view is that, as it is far from certain, and JK Rowling is never too keen to be pinned down on maths, then we may as well be vague. As long as the article is concise, clear and sourced, I'm happy. Peeper 13:54, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Well then you should not be happy as it is not currently 'concise, clear and sourced' due to the fact that firstly the source of the interviews or when they occured is not mentioned and secondly it is highly ambiguous. It states that she envisaged 40 students per year and a 1,000 in general. Knowing that there are 7 years at Hogwarts you do not have to be a genius to work out that this leaves a huge discrepancy. To simply state the JK Rowling doesn't like to get involved in the maths of her world is just sweeping the issue under the carpet. I provided a quote from the text which the article is about which describes the number of students, and it is deleted, to me this makes no sense.

Please sign your posts and assume good faith, or at least don't be grouchy. As I also said, please edit as you see fit. Personally, I don't think that getting all steamed up about how many students there are at Hogwarts is a particularly valuable exercise for the reader. This is a fictional universe, and there's no point trying to force a meaning out of JK Rowling's statements when she clearly does not have an absolutely correct answer in mind. But if the general consensus is to go ahead with some kind of speculative number, then fire away. I just feel that, given that finding a 'true' figure is both impossible and unnecessary, it is better to concentrate on making this a good article rather than a repository for every last attempt to squeeze factual information from what is, ultimately, amorphous fiction. Edit away. But please make sure that your sentence structure and tone are correct - this remains an encyclopaedia. Thanks. Peeper 19:15, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Location of Durmstrang

Victor Krum is a Bulgarian. He plays for the Bulgarian Quidditich Team. So surely, Durmstrang is a Bulgarian School.--M Johnson 01:37, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

This is unlikely to be that simple. About the localisations of the schools I hace produced the following map. Click on the map for the text that details the reason for the locations. Please feel free to discuss. I am seriously interested in knowing what you guys think. Lag 22:06, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:HP_possible_European_wichcraft_schools_locations.JPG

the syllabus might contain one muggle subject

"Students are taught a range of subjects all based around the magical arts. None of the standard academic disciplines taught in Muggle institutions appears to be on the syllabus."

if i'm not mistaken, isn't arithmancy on the syllabus?

Arithmancy and Arithmetic are two different things altogether. --165.21.154.116 08:47, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

A Nazi little secret?

Some highly conservative Christians also claim that Himmler's planned SS officer training school and ritual headquarters in Wewelsburg Castle served has the model for Hogwarts. I have removed this edit as it looks implausible and, if it is to be included, really ought to have some kind of reference if it isn't going to look like an attempt to goad 'highly conservative Christians'. And at the very least it should probably be reworded. But if it is true and reliable, then by all means let's have it back in.Peeper 17:18, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

On a radio program a couple years ago I heard Jerry Falwell quoted as making this statement. I have not yet been able to find documentation of it on the internet, but I will keep searching. --RPlunk 00:15, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Crikey. I was hoping it was just some entertaining, if inflammatory, vandalism. Never mind, keep up the search; if I turn anything up I'll post here, and eventually we can put the reference back in once it's sourced... Peeper 09:37, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

It's hard finding radio program records; no luck needles to say. However, here is a website written buy a 'conservative christian' nut-bar : [1]. Enjoy their babble.

Name

Doesn't the name "Hogwarts" sound like a reverse of the name "warthog"? 4.158.60.91 03:17, 18 December 2005 (UTC) It is actually an anagram of "warthogs". I checked on a website called "Andy's Anagram Finder". Jonathan235

uh yeah wow.. I'm pretty sure you don't need an anagram finder to realize it's an anagram of warthogs. The words are already there.. anyway, what's your point? Isn't the more obvious reference Hog warts? As in warts on a hog/pig? Dan 23:21, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Blazon

I can't figure out what in the heck this is supposed to mean. The sentences make absolutely no sense to me. Any ideas? Dan 23:21, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Are you asking about this?

Shield renaissance, Quarterly,

I gules a lion salient to sinister Or,

II vert a serpent argent,

III Or a badger reguardant proper,

IV azure an eagle displayed Or,

in fesse couped Or scroll with letter H sable,

top riband for the name Hogwarts,

base riband for the motto "draco dormiens nunquam titillandus".

If that is what you are asking about, it is a technical description of the Hogwarts blazon, using words and syntax from the usual heraldry vocabulary and grammar. Lgriot 17:32, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Enrollment

The footnote to "signed up when born" in the summary table should point to #Enrollment_and_Arrival, not #endnote_enrolment [sic] as it currently does. But I don't know how to fix it. Kenta2 05:15, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Staff, past and present

This is completely absurd. While it may not be useless, it's foolish to have it on this page taking up so much vertical space and little horizontal. I think we should create a new page for it and then link it. Dan 17:18, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Hello 71.99.124.115, Could you please provide a citation for Petigrew having taught at Hogwarts? I have never read any such thing, so I would be interested. Also, as Dan says, please avoid putting capital-letter-angry notes in the main article, it does not make them look good, there are discussion pages for explaning your edits. Thanks. Lgriot 20:29, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

• Sorry for the capital letters, and if you would like to put the Staff, Past And Present on a new page, by all means, do so, but please put the link on this page, and Peter Pettigrew was a mistake, she meant it to be him and not Crouch, Jr. to kidnap Moody. It will be removed A.S.A.P.

Pettigrew's been removed.

About the suggested merge (staff - teachers)

I would rather put this list into the Hogwarts teachers page. Given that Filtch is there, the page would have to be renamed Horgwarts staff. And there should be definitely be a link between this page and the other. Lgriot 10:31, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

That's fine with me. See Talk:Hogwarts teachers#Merge to Hogwarts. However, I think the page Hogwarts teachers (or staff, whatever it should be named) needs a serious rewrite. And then what's to become of the Minor Hogwarts teachers page? --Fbv65edel ^{(discuss | contribs)} 13:23, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi, this is Minervamoon, and I completely agree with merging it, and I would hve done if I knew how, but as with the minor Hogwarts Teachers, that may have to either be deleted or create different pages for them all, but yeah merging would be good. (You can delete the Pince-Filch, Lupin-Tokns part, that was a joke)

No, that was NOT Minervamoon: That was my godforsaken f***ing little brother, who thinks it's cool to edit Wikipedia under my name. Do whatever you damn please with the edit, because it's definitely NOT mine, but instead the work of an OCD kid. Minervamoon 01:23, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Blazon copyright

The school logo, or blazon, has a copyright statement saying it is the logo of an organization and as such is OK to use. However, I don't think this is appropriate, since (sadly) Hogwarts is not an actual organization. Does anyone know who created the image and what the actual copyright status is? If not, I think a note needs to be posted on the image page that it has a potential copyright problem. Mike Christie 12:39, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I see that the image you are talking about has been removed, but an image of the Hogwarts Crest would be great to have here. I know that the Bloomsbury (British) editions have an image of the blazon at the beginning. I'll scan it if someone will give me feedback on fair use rationale. Phi*n!x 20:46, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Rejected from Oxford?

"Rowling sought a place at Oxford University, but was rejected, in her eyes on prejudicial grounds similar to those espoused by "pure-blood" advocates at Hogwarts."

What's the source for this? I've searched her interviews and googled about this and can't find anything like this. - A random passer by

Organization

I notice that there are two sections that have "grounds" in their titles, and they seem to have somewhat redundant information at parts. Perhaps someone should merge these.

Also, it would be good to add an image to the infobox, such as the WB picture of Hogwarts, or maybe a Hogwarts crest. If the Hogwarts crest were to go in the infobox, the same could probably be done with the Beauxbatons and Durmstrang, also; this would create better continuity across the WP:WPHP articles. Phi*n!x 21:03, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup tag

I added a cleanup tag because of a large number of problems in the way the article is laid out.

For example, Houses are mentioned throughout the article, but are only introduced and defined halfway through, possibly leading readers to wonder what Houses are until they get to that point. A large number of information is also repeated. I beleive the layout of this article needs to be seriously reconsidered. E946 05:45, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Origin of name is not from a flower!

I heard "hogwarts" actually means a kind early medieval (black ages) earthen fortress. Many such fortifications were built by tribal english. The wizard school was probably built on the former site of one such construction, this is why it appears to be a ruin when seen by muggles. 195.70.32.136 09:56, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

JK Rowling herself has said that it comes from a flower. See [2]. See her response to the question. "Do you put images from your dreams into your books?" --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 16:50, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Rewrite

After seeing the disorganized state of the current article, I decided that it would be a good idea to completely rewrite this article. I set up a user subpage to edit behind the scenes. i'm more or less done, and I want to make sure nobody has a problem with it before I make the change (Which is why I put in the template)

There's only a few issues right now, including:

• Bad introduction
• Bad layout and grounds section

The new article can be found here. Please make any changes you want. In a week, I'll copy everything over to this article if nobody has any major objections.

E946 08:03, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

E946, if you don't mind, I'm going to make a few changes to your draft. You can of course revert or change them as you like, they're just things which were recently added to the article which are not present. Good work! --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 13:56, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Something to consider rewriting this article: I think that Wikipedia policy only allows one screenshot on a page, but the draft currently has 3. I haven't seen this anywhere except as a note above the screenshots section under "licensing" on the upload page, and I'm not sure if this is a matter of copyright or of style. Also, I added a link to the WikiProject talk page to alert the community. Should the rewriting be noted anywhere else? -Phi*n!x 02:54, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I've never heard that, actually. I just saw a good picture of the sorting hat in another article so I added it. Where can we go to ask if it's okay? E946 05:12, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe has at least five screenshots or so. I don't know, though, if it's closely monitored. I think, if you go by the reasoning that it's to help illustrate the topic in question, it's considered fair use. The Sorting Hat, then, is fine, because you want to illustrate the Sorting ceremony. To ask, you should probably try the Village pump (technical). --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 13:38, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

You can to User talk:QuarterZ#Images. This user wanted User:AndyZ to upload an image of Snape (He didn't know how to at a time) and Andy didn't want to because there were to many screenshots there. Another one is the history of Ron Weasley where User:T-dot removed screenshots so there was very little and Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (film). Any articles having 2 or more screenshots; one needs to be removed. You can see WP:FUC for the violation rule. Carmelapple 14:12, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

From what I see, WP:FUC doesn't specifically say that there should be only one screenshot, but that unfree images should be as limited as possible (rule #3). I agree that the ways the images are being used on the Hogwarts draft are fine and legal, but I am curious if we can figure out what's up with the policy. (On a side note, the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe page has eight screenshots and I have suggested on its talk page that this be changed.) Also, I have posted this before on this talk page: wouldn't a Hogwarts blazon be an appropriate image for the article? I'll scan one from a Bloomsbury edition if I can get help with the fair use rationale. -Phi*n!x 17:27, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

It's pretty much impossible to describe the blazon without a picture, you're not stopping them from selling any books, and you're not making a profit. There's your fair use. E946 09:50, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

If nobody else has any problems with this, then i'll just change it over when I wake up later today. E946 09:54, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Bracket needs removal

Section 8.1 (Student Life > Food) ends with a lone closing bracket, despite there being no opening bracket preceding it. The article is locked, so I can't change it. Small issue, I know, but it looks untidy.31.51.57.80 (talk) 13:45, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

Done. Edenc1 • Talk 15:23, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

Edit Request on 3 October 2012

In the Herbology section, I suggest changing:

... a variety of magical plants of varying degrees of lethality.

to:

... a variety of magical plants of varying degrees of utility, lethality or both.

as I believe this would describe the course more accurately (I'm thinking of plants like Mandrake here. Please see: List_of_fictional_plants#Plants_from_J._K._Rowling.27s_Harry_Potter_series). Dick Kimball (talk) 13:24, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

I've actually taken out the entire phrase, as lethality (while being a valid word) is not a good choice - if soemthing is lethal, then you're killed by it, and you can't have varying levels of being dead. Chaheel Riens (talk) 13:00, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Not done: phrase removed, so request no longer applicable.

Edit request on 19 November 2012

The Hogwarts Motto: "Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus" translates to 'Never Tickle a Sleeping Dragon' 196.213.212.91 (talk) 09:22, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Done. Edenc1 • Talk 10:01, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 28 November 2012

under Care of Magical Creatures "...Harry's first two years, the class is taken by Professor Silvanus Kettleburn"

change "taken" to "taught" 71.56.34.31 (talk) 05:55, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

•  Done Anthony Appleyard (talk) 06:05, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Subjects

I have suggested the merge of the Hogwarts subjects into this article. I have also written a Draft to give you an idea of how this article would look like without all the classrooms and offices and cruft, and with the subjects already merged. --Lord Opeth (talk) 19:07, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

After 4 years, I think this should be discussed anew. I am reviewing this page for GA, and I believe that given the length and descriptions of each subject, and the uniqueness of Harry Potter school subjects in general, that Harry Potter subjects really do merit their own subject page. Simply listed on this page, in my mind, they are rather cumbersome. As such, I have created a Subjects at Hogwarts page. But I have not removed the current subjects section, as I would like feedback. If I do not receive feedback within a few days time, though, I will proceed to remove the subjects section, and simply write a "for more, see.." or something like that. If I am given feedback against the new page, I will put that page up for deletion again. User:thedropsoffire|talk November 19, 2012 —Preceding undated comment added 06:22, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm against the new page. While I agree with the removal of the section in order to achieve GA status, I do not think that the subjects are as notable as other Harry Potter topics to merit a whole article for them. The Harry Potter Universe is covered by specific topics (Magic, Objects, Places, Creatures), while really notable individual topics have their own article (Quidditch with all its real world versions, the Ministry of Magic and its political commentary, and Hogwarts itself). Out of the many Hogwarts topics (subjects, staff, houses, founders, etc), only the Hogwarts Staff is notable enough to have its own page. The subjects should be discussed in the section, not as a list but as text and without in-universe information and fan cruft. The staff is already discussed in the Hogwarts staff article so there is no point to list, again, all DADA teachers or to mention incidental characters like Kettleburn or Vector. --LoЯd ۞pεth 07:16, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

I think this is a reasonable suggestion. Perhaps we can merge the subjects page with another page in the Harry Potter Universe. I do not, however, think it merits a detailed description on the Hogwarts page, nor do I think the bits on subjects should be cut out entirely - they are useful descriptions and have many wikis linking in. So the task could then be to decide on the appropriate page to merge Subjects at Hogwarts with, and then make sure all the links are properly moved. BR, --Thedropsoffire (talk) 07:40, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Having many wikis linking in has never been an argument to keep a page, it doesn't establish notability at all. The description I was suggesting is not a detailed one. I think that two or three paragraphs with sources and real-world commentary would be more useful and encyclopedic. If people want to know every single detail on those subjects, they should probably go to the Harry Potter Wikia. Many years ago we had lots of crufty lists, i.e. a lists of every single classroom and room in the Hogwarts castle, or lists of Hufflepuffs, Ravenclaws, etc. Since those were in-universe-only articles and lists, they were trimmed and merged. If you needed to remove the list of subjects in order to improve the Hogwarts article, perhaps it is because the list of subjects itself does not fit Wikipedia standards in any form (individual article, section, table, etc.) --LoЯd ۞pεth 17:53, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

"Heads" subsection

I think that, in order to achieve GA status, we should remove that section, or to re-write it entirely to meet encyclopedic criteria. As it is right now, it is pure in-universe and fan-cruft. Most of the characters on that list do not even have a section in the List of supporting Harry Potter characters, which means they are irrelevant. I tried to remove that section but one user said that people "may need" that information. I think that if people want fan-cruft lists, they should go to the Harry Potter Wikia or any other fansite. Thoughts? --LoЯd ۞pεth 07:20, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, good riddance. Cruft on HP-related articles grows faster than bamboo in the monsoon. On the other hand there should probably be a description of the headmaster's office and the business with the portraits in there as that's quite iconic. Mezigue (talk) 18:01, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Portraits are already detailed in the Magic in HP article. As far as I recall, headmasters' portraits are mentioned there. --LoЯd ۞pεth 19:04, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 30 November 2012

The dates on Dumbledore's term for headmaster conflict with Dolores Umbridge's. His for that year needs to end 1996, not 1997. Also, Headmaster Black was of Slytherin house. This was referenced many times in the Deathly Hallows. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.8.40.20 (talk) 14:30, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Pol430 talk to me 23:47, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

School Template

Hey, I need some help/advising to fix that School Template for Hogwarts. Honestly it looks bad and I'd like for someone to help fix it. §haun 9∞76 ^༆ 01:57, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Can you explain what you think is wrong with it? Earlier you put a real school template, which is not appropriate so I changed it back. (Sorry for not saying anything about it on the talk page - I hadn't spotted the discussion above.) Mezigue (talk) 12:40, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Here's a checklist And just a question, Why was a school template not acceptable?

1. Enrollment is spelled "Enrolment"

1. Enrollment section is overly long

1. We could at least put a Classes section and a few of there other things that the real school template has.

1. Seal isn't there and there is no space to put it.

1. The "Head" section has 4 people in it and instead of years it uses books as a measurement of time.

Fix those and It should be fine. I'll help too! §haun 9∞76 ^༆ 03:08, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

OK, so: a real school template is not appropriate because it is not a real school. For the same reason, it is fine to have the various headmasters listed by book. Unlike in a real school, there isn't one headmaster *now* and former headmasters. I wouldn't think the classes are necessary in the infobox either because they are detailed in the article and would rather clog up the box. What does everyone think? On the other hand, the picture used now is a bit big. Perhaps we could move it down to the first section and replace it with the seal. Finally, 'enrolment' is actually correct - it's the British spelling of the word. But you're right, the second part of that section is superfluous there.Mezigue (talk) 10:25, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

It's smaller now and in response to the headmaster/books thing, why not have books, and years they were head. §haun 9∞76 ^༆ 01:51, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

It says now what book they are headmaster in. Having it by year is not really necessary. There are almost never any years given in the books, I think the tombstones in the final book and N-H Nick's death date are the only years ever mentioned. Mezigue (talk) 09:31, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Ok! Makes sense... Anyway good job, it looks a lot better in my opinion. §haun 9∞76 ^༆ 15:44, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

The Burrow Link Repair

The link under School Location and Information for "The Weasleys' House" redirects to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Weasley when it should redirect to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Places_in_Harry_Potter#The_Burrow

Any help in this regard would be appreciated. (Mocon19 (talk) 13:41, 18 May 2013 (UTC))

Done. Edenc1 • Talk 15:31, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Edit Request on 4 December 2013

In the Houses section, the "mottoes" should be removed completely.

The Gryffindor motto is "Their daring, nerve and chivalry set Gryffindors apart. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogwarts#Gryffindor

The Hufflepuff motto is "Those patient Hufflepuffs are true and unafraid of toil. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogwarts#Hufflepuff

These supposed "mottoes" are just blurbs from the first Sorting Hat song.

The Ravenclaw motto is "Wit beyond measure is man's greatest treasure. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogwarts#Ravenclaw

The Slytherin motto is "Slytherin will help you on your way to greatness. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogwarts#Slytherin

None of the Hogwarts houses have official mottoes.

Zekethegypsy (talk) 05:28, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Done Evanesco! Thanks. --Stfg (talk) 11:08, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Ministry of Magics role at Hogwarts

Original text in wiki: "It is unclear how Hogwarts is funded. Various passages suggest that families pay to send their children to the school. In Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Tom Riddle says that he cannot afford to go to Hogwarts, to which Albus Dumbledore replies, "There is a fund at Hogwarts for those who require assistance to buy books and robes," as students are required to buy their own textbooks, uniform, and other supplies. The Ministry of Magic's efforts to take control of the school in Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix imply that it is a publicly funded school, though no mention of where the Ministry receives its funds is made."

The Ministries efforts to take control do not imply that the school is publicly funded. Taking from this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albus_Dumbledore , "The Ministry passes Educational Decree Twenty-two, allowing Fudge to place Dolores Umbridge to the post of Defence Against the Dark Arts teacher (after Dumbledore failed to find a suitable candidate). Through her, Fudge gradually gains power over Hogwarts and Dumbledore, who he fears is building an under-age wizard army to overthrow the Ministry." When Dumbledore is removed from the the role of headmaster, it is by a "board" that then appoints Umbridge as headmaster under fear of being cursed by Lucious Malfoy.

The Ministry controls issues dealing with the use of magic within the wizard world. Therefore, they would have the ability to create laws affecting private institutions. Also, it could be assumed that the Ministry of Magic is an arm of whatever wizard government exists, as they are talking to the governments and officials of the muggle world and are probably funded through taxes that are collected within the magical world.

I think the text "The Ministry of Magic's efforts to take control of the school in Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix imply that it is a publicly funded school, though no mention of where the Ministry receives its funds is made." should just be deleted.

--Copilot602 (talk) 17:06, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Yes, the sentence should be deleted, and quickly. It makes an implication which is nowhere near being an actually implication; in addition, it is unsourced.

Fact: the Ministry of Magic made efforts to take control of the school.

"Conclusion"?: the school is publicly funded.

No it isn't - I mean, whether or not the school is publicly funded, we cannot draw this conclusion. - There seems to be this prejudice around (e. g. in American conservatism) that the State can and does control what it funds and cannot and does not control anything else. I can only understand the said "conclusion" on this prejudice; but it is wrong.

What is actually happening is that the Ministry is issuing decrees which the school finds itself ever more difficult to comply with. This it does because it's the government, not because it is funding. The point of governing is issuing orders on those unfunded, also.

If anything, the happenings prove that the school is not publicly funded - or only by way of subsidy; it appears here as not a government school under the direction of the Ministry. If so, the Ministry would have replaced Dumbledore without waiting so long, and the replacement would not have been judged an usurper by natural law (reflected magically in the fact that Umbridge cannot enter the Headmaster's room). It only part-time becomes a "government school", possibly, during "Deathly Hallows" (and probably Snape could only enter the Headmaster's room because unknown to all others he had had Dumbledore's okay for it). That said, there's nothing to rule out that they received government subsidies - though the idea of four powerful (and presumably wealthy) loremasters setting up a school during the Middle Ages hints, to me, rather forcefully at a foundation. Anyway, the idea of school fees is never presented anywhere else - though they still have to buy learning material, uniform, and supplies.--2.236.198.248 (talk) 23:03, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 June 2014

Please edit the phrase:

The Ministry of Magic's efforts to take control of the school in Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix imply that it is a publicly funded school, though no mention of where the Ministry receives its funds is made.

Reason: No, this, besides being unsourced, does not happen to be implied at all - unless we follow the prejudice that the State will naturally shrink back from controlling everything it does not fund. This is simply not the case; and, in addition, the very reverse is true: the very efforts prove that the Ministry does not have complete control.

Solution: either delete the sentence completely.

Or: Something along the lines of (I'll give a suggestion, admittedly somewhat speculative, but no more so than the current version and other than it correct):

The school is goverened by a collective board of "governors" who elect the Headmaster (see Chamber of Secrets). The election of governors is never mentioned. As to the school's funding, there is a suggestion that it was initially provided for from the Founder's private wealth; at any rate students do not pay any fees (although they do pay for material, unless indigent). It cannot be ruled out that it receives ministerial subsidies, yet it is apparently not a state school, as the independence of the Governors from the Ministry (in Chamber of Secrets) prove. The Ministry does try at times (as in Order of the Phoenix) to subject the school to itself by rule by decree, but only achieves this goal under the dominion of Voldemort (in Deathly Hallows).

Note: already touched in the talk page by a request of the dear user Copilot602, answered in the affirmative by myself under probably a different IP address.

2001:A60:1531:EA01:A9F7:9DAB:3D4B:E3F (talk) 13:32, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

I have deleted all that - it was speculation as you point out. Mezigue (talk) 13:52, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Hogwarts Castle Image caption.

The image of the Hogwarts model used in this article has the caption of "A studio model of Hogwarts at Leavesden Studios"

The model on display is the final model that was constructed for the film series (used in movie 6 only) as the last film only used a completely 3D CGI version of the castle.

I have proceeded to change to caption to read "A studio model of Hogwarts at Leavesden Studios used in the 6th film adaptation" However user @Kirin13 demands a source saying otherwise. I have provided evidence of the castle changes throughout the films course, yet its not "sufficient" for this user. These details can be seen here: User_talk:Kirin13

Can another user please help back up my "correct" claim so the correct caption can be used for the image.

Here is another reference. http://www.wbstudiotour.co.uk/de/die-tour/-

— Preceding unsigned comment added by B.Davis2003 (talk • contribs) 09:20, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

What you posted on my talk page was WP:OR and direct links to random images all without any sources. The first source you've given was the link above, which basically says model was used in all the films. Per your source, "The Hogwarts castle model ... built for the first film ... was then rebuilt and altered many times over for the next seven films." The fact the model was altered through the films was never in dispute. Kirin13 (talk) 21:18, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Edit request on 7 December 2014: film settings

The settings for the Hogwarts scenes are hardly even mentioned in passing in the article, as far as I can see. I couldn't believe my eyes; I believe they are enough sought after to deserve their own heading, whether on-location, studio or something else. One location seems to be Alnwick Castle ([3]). 83.253.1.17 (talk) 01:22, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

" Nynorsk keeps "Hogwarts" "

Hello! I haven't heard that Nynorsk keeps "Hogwarts" instand of "Galtvort" (norsk bokmål), is this true? Is there a source for this? Sorry for bad english. --Silver Stone (talk) 12:13, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Not as of this writing. Nynorsk has "Galtvort" just as bokmål ([4]). Should be recitfied of course. 83.253.1.17 (talk) 01:54, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Hogwarts/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Some first comments:

• Prose Style could be improved
• Wiki links could be added (i.e. to many of the school heads, the house titles)
• Some externally links are unreliable or broken
• Though fictional, I believe the page would benefit from a style ressembling a real school's wiki page (I believe a history section would be interesting, and I believe the subjects could be made into their own wiki page. The Hogwarts express section should be made a subsection of arrival. The Secrets of Hogwarts section could be made part of a larger "Grounds" section and include things like Hagrid's hut. Perhaps a section about books referencing Hogwarts (within the Harry Potter Universe) could also be added.
• A fair use rationale must be added to the Chamber of Secrets picture, or a different picture must be selected.
• If you are stuck trying to rearrange things, you can look at both major university pages (i.e. Cambridge, Oxford, Harvard), and the Harry Potter wiki for ideas.

I will do my best to address some of these issues where I can, but as my time is limited, I encourage the nominator and collaborative editors to address the above points. Reviewer: Thedropsoffire (talk · contribs) 08:13, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Just popping by to note that WP:Manual of Style/Writing about fiction may be helpful during the course of this review. I had been considering reviewing this article when Thedropsoffire picked it up, and in doing an initial check of the article I noticed that a pretty significant chunk is written from an in-universe perspective. Also, there are quite a lot of places missing referencing, especially when referring to opinion, statistics or potential controversial statements. Thedropsoffire, it might be helpful to the nominator for you to list which links you consider unreliable (and I'm assuming you mean references, as external links are not required to conform to the same reliability guidelines as references). Dana boomer (talk) 15:14, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks Dana, yes I was referring to the references. Specifically, there are several dead links within the references, including many Accioquote references, and many J.K. Rowling official website references for which I presume the links have changed. Here are the references at issue (listed by their reference number at the time of this comment):

*Reference 3 - 1999 Accio Quote - dead link

*Reference 4 - 2001 Accio Quote - dead link

*Reference 8 - Online chat transcript - dead link

*Reference 11- How do you remember...- dead link

*Reference 12- About the books- dead link

*Reference 13- The Leaky Cauldron and Muggle...- dead link

*Reference 15- J.K. Rowling official site F.A.Q.- dead link

*Reference 16- J.K. Rowling official site extras- dead link

*Reference 18- We haven't heard- dead link

*Reference 21- This is reference to a specific piece of information about the Hufflepuff common room, the reference link takes you only to the Pottermore homepage

*Reference 24- same as reference 21, but on the topic of Alchemy (and why is alchemy capitalized??)

*Reference 31- Can prefects...(official site)- dead link

*Reference 35-2001:Accio Quote - dead link

thedropsoffire|talk

• Additionally, there is rather heavy reliance on Accioquote - not sure whether this is an issue for a GA.

Upon taking a further look at AccioQuote, I would say that it is a reference to be used with care, because in some cases, we are linking to copyright violations, which is a bad thing. For example, the copyright to www.accio-quote.org/articles/1999/0799-telegraph-cleave.html this Telegraph article is, I'm certain, not owned by AccioQuote. It would really be better (and much more legal) to instead link to the Telegraph article itself, or format the reference as a paper reference, once we've verified the dates/title/etc are correct. If all of the AccioQuote references to newspapers were changed to straight newspaper references, the existing references would be in much better shape already (although, the issue of missing references is also a significant one). Anyway, I'm not trying to take over your review, but if you don't mind I'll hang around and maybe pop in a comment now and then. Dana boomer (talk) 12:25, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing this out Dana; this will have to be fixed before I approve this do GA. And do stick around by all means - thedropsoffire|talk

Hey, The problem with 21 is that you have to have an account on Pottermore I think. Anyway I'm deleting the dead links and will try to add new ones. Thanks! §h₳un 9∞76 15:21, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

•  Not done  Shaun9876 is doing... Prose Style could be improved
•  Done Wiki links could be added (i.e. to many of the school heads, the house titles)
•  Done Some externally links are unreliable or broken
•  Half done Though fictional, I believe the page would benefit from a style ressembling a real school's wiki page (I believe a history section would be interesting, and I believe the subjects could be made into their own wiki page. The Hogwarts express section should be made a subsection of arrival. The Secrets of Hogwarts section could be made part of a larger "Grounds" section and include things like Hagrid's hut. Perhaps a section about books referencing Hogwarts (within the Harry Potter Universe) could also be added.
•  Done (It has one)A fair use rationale must be added to the Chamber of Secrets picture, or a different picture must be selected.
•  Done If you are stuck trying to rearrange things, you can look at both major university pages (i.e. Cambridge, Oxford, Harvard), and the Harry Potterwiki for ideas.

§h₳un 9∞76 17:31, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

• Good stuff, thanks for the update!--Thedropsoffire (talk) 11:03, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

I need some help deleting dead links as I can't seem to do it without crashing the Reftag template. Thanks! §h₳un 9∞76 02:19, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

You should not just delete dead links - they either need to be fixed, archived or replaced with entirely new references. If the reference was a journal or book and the url was just a courtesy link, it can be removed, but only after a thorough check to make sure it hasn't just had its location changed. Just removing dead refs is a very bad practice, because then other editors don't know that the information was originally sourced, and they don't have a place to start looking for a ref (as they do if there is a reference with a dead link). Dana boomer (talk) 12:58, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, but I haven't heard of archiving References/Dead links. Could someone tell me how or direct me to somewhere where I could learn how? §h₳un 9∞76 00:39, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for not responding to this earlier. There are a couple of archiving services out there. You can use the Toolserver Checklinks tool, which gives you all sorts of neat options, and will help you figure out if there are archives of the dead links out there. Also, sometimes, links are just moved to different spots within the same webpage, so that's a good thing to check, too. Dana boomer (talk) 00:06, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Sorry Dana, is there a way to give me a link not to the secure server? My computer says can't connect whenever I try to load a page. §h₳un 9∞76 01:17, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

That link shouldn't be to the secure server, just to the main toolserver. Here's a link directly to the results for Hogwarts (instead of to the main page): Hogwarts results. Can you access that? Dana boomer (talk) 01:23, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

I get an error message, Safari can't open the page because it can't establish a connection to "Toolserver" §haun 9∞76 ^༆ 23:46, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

I tried again and it works now... It didn't before. §haun 9∞76 ^༆ 23:31, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Prose

Ok, the other areas have been improved, where could I start with prose improvement? Dana/Dropsoffire, any Idea where I could begin? §haun 9∞76 ^༆ 01:57, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

You'll want to poke Dana and have her look through the prose to make any fixes; Thedrops hasn't edited since the 6th so waiting for him may not be the best idea. Wizardman 03:52, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

There are still a bunch of dead links and links that go to copyright violations, and the article is significantly underreferenced. Honestly, if I were picking this up for GA review at this point, I would fail it based on these issues alone. There is also repetitive prose (bits of trivia mentioned two or three times), unnecessary lists, etc. Dana boomer (talk) 13:21, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Now that I've actually read through the article, I agree entirely, didn't notice how much needed to be fixed. As such am failing it for now. Wizardman 01:44, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Hogwarts

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Hogwarts's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "IGN":

• From Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix (video game): Miller, Greg (2007-06-25). "Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix Review (PS3, X360)". IGN. Retrieved 2014-02-01.
• From Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince (video game): Casamassina, Matt (2008-04-22). "EA Announces Half-Blood Prince". IGN. Retrieved 2015-06-20.
• From Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows – Part 2 (video game): Steimer, Kristine (2011-07-26). "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 2 the Video Game Review". IGN. Retrieved 2014-02-04.
• From Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (video game): Casamassina, Matt (2005-11-11). "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire". IGN. Retrieved 2014-01-30.
• From The Wizarding World of Harry Potter (Universal Orlando Resort): Goldman, Eric (May 8, 2013). "Details on Expansion of Wizarding World of Harry Potter in Orlando Confirmed, Including Diagon Alley as Second Location". IGN. Retrieved May 8, 2013.
• From Kaboom (Parks and Recreation): Fowler, Matt (October 23, 2009). "Parks and Recreation: "Kaboom" Review". IGN. Archived from the original on February 1, 2011. Retrieved October 27, 2009.
• From Harry Potter: Quidditch World Cup: Casamassina, Matt (2003-10-27). "Harry Potter: Quidditch World Cup". IGN. Retrieved 2014-01-28.
• From Lego Harry Potter: Years 1–4: Miller, Greg (2010-06-28). "LEGO Harry Potter: Years 1-4 Review". IGN. Retrieved 2010-07-05.
• From Stephen Colbert (character): Ken P (August 11, 2003). An Interview With Stephen Colbert. IGN. Retrieved on August 15, 2007.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 01:15, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

House crests

Under the section for the four houses, it offers only a checker-pattern of the house colours to act as a crest. Shouldn't these be replaces with the individual house crests from the film versions? They are more recognizable as such. Iheartthestrals (talk) 01:16, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

Showing the crests used in the films would go against Wikipedia's fair use policy. The article already includes two non-free images. Four more would be a bit too much. Moreover, it wouldn't significantly improve readers' understanding of the topic either - they would just be visual identifiers. There isn't really a reason to use that here. ~Mable (chat) 09:37, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

How to be Topp

Most people know this book as Molesworth or The Compleet Molesworth, when several books were published together. Should be a note here? Slightnostalgia (talk) 06:23, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Can you find a reliable source stating this? If not, than probably not. ~Mable (chat) 10:37, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

I just needs a note in the references, just to give clarity. Slightnostalgia (talk) 22:13, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

As the sources say that the book in question in "How To be Topp", then as any fule kno, we should use those titles, not others. Chaheel Riens (talk) 22:37, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Edit Request

In the Houses section, I suggest changing:

The houses compete throughout the school year, by earning and losing points for various events, for the House Cup...

to:

The houses compete throughout the school year for the House Cup by earning and losing points for various actions...

As I think that it makes the sentence's meaning clearer. Owlcon53 (talk) 21:24, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

Agreed, and done. Chaheel Riens (talk) 10:56, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 July 2016

So-sorafiq (talk) 13:43, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Not done: No request was made. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 14:01, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Hogwarts School Song

• Hogwarts,Hogwarts,Hoggy,Warty,Hogwarts
• Teach us something please
• Whether we be old and bald
• Or young with scabby knees
• Our heads could do with feeling
• With something interesting stuff
• For now they're bare and full of air
• Dead flies and bit of fluff
• So teach us things worth knowing
• Bring back what we've forgot
• Just do your best,we'll do the rest
• And learn until our brain all rot

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Chaheel Riens (talk) 12:55, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

This may be copyrighted content. Is it alright to keep it on the talk page like this? ~Mable (chat) 13:43, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

WP:LYRICS says that lyrical quoting comes under the same Non-free policy as everything else, and as the policy states "how much of a song you can quote is open to interpretation". However, I would say that to include the entire lyrics on the article page would fall foul of the policy, but to leave it here for a couple of days while the editor has chance to re-submit their question does not. It's entirely possible that they may come up with a blindingly brilliant suggestions that although may not require all the lyrics to be quoted, perhaps some of them that would be highlighted form the entire list above.

Just my surmising. Chaheel Riens (talk) 14:07, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

It is not a song lyrics anyway as the song does not exist. It's an extract from a novel. Mezigue (talk) 14:10, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 January 2017

Peachesrcool7 (talk) 22:31, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Cannolis (talk) 02:05, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 January 2017

Under the Discipline header, it says that the Hufflepuff house jewels are Topazes, but JK Rowling herself has stated that it's actually diamonds. 24.55.137.161 (talk) 09:55, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. DRAGON BOOSTER ★ 10:17, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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Education not compulsory?

Education in the UK is compulsory - attendance at Hogwarts is not. The reference to "Education at Hogwarts is not compulsory, with some students being home schooled as stated in the seventh book" is therefore misleading and incorrect.Royalcourtier (talk) 02:38, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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Semi-protected edit request on 22 October 2018

192.145.246.62 (talk) 15:22, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

raven claw house mascot is not an eagle please fix that.

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Danski454 (talk) 15:52, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

Most likely this is a request based on the fact that in the films the mascot is a Raven, but in the books it is an Eagle. I assume that the OP has knowledge of the films not books.

As the books take canon precedence in the HP articles the description of an eagle as the Ravenclaw mascot is correct.

I believe the colour schemes are different as well. Chaheel Riens (talk) 16:00, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 December 2018

in the Forbidden forest sction, should be added- the creatures of the forest, as stated by various books include the following- a herd of territorial centaurs, a collection of Acromantulas ie giant flesh-eating spiders, werewolves, trolls and Hagrid's pet herc of Thestrals. In book 2, it is said flesh-eating slugs infest cabbage-patches, kelpies infest wells. in book 5, it is said birds are found too. 150.107.177.111 (talk) 06:56, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:59, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

typo

"Models of Alnwick Castleand and"

Please fix.

 Done - Well spotted. Chaheel Riens (talk) 09:40, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

Source for list of headmasters

User:Tvurta, who has been adding questionable material to several HP pages (some unsourced, some apparently from fan fiction pages, and some challenged) added seven Headmasters to the infobox:

Phyllida Spore(1391 - 1408). Eddessa Skanderberg (1490 - 1503), Heliotrope Wilkins (1531 - 1560), Elizabeth Burke (1600 - 1615), Dilys Derwent (1741 - 1768), Eupraxia Mole (1870 - 1879). Brutus Scrimgeour (1895 - 1899)

They are not sourced. Does someone have a proper reliable citation for these additions? If not, they should be removed. Magidin (talk) 16:22, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

I've removed them. If a source can be found, they can go back in, but we're not playing that C/N game again... Chaheel Riens (talk) 17:11, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Thank you; all the hits I get on the web are fan sites... Magidin (talk) 17:15, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

English Education in Scotland

Although it appears to be located in the North of Scotland, Hogwarts resembles English state schools in many respects, and English Public (i.e. private) Schools in others: possibly due to its' supranational intake. The most obvious difference is that pupils join at age 11 years, as they do in English state schools (after six years of muggle primary education) whereas Scottish secondary schoolchildren start at 12 years, after Primary Seven.

Houses exist in muggle state schools, but are ignored by all except the sport-mad: they count for more in the Public School system, especially at Eton.

The first public examination, which takes place after five years, is the OWLs, or Ordinary Wizarding Levels: which recall the former 'O' Levels of England more than the contemporary Scottish 'O' Grade exams. The next public exams, the NEWTS, come two years later, like the English 'A' levels, whereas Scottish muggles have Highers a year later and Advanced Highers the following year.

The head teacher of Hogwarts is called the Headmaster, as in most English schools, whereas the head of a similarly grand establishment in Scotland would be called the Rector.

The business about excluding muggle-borns and half-bloods during Voldemort's reign resembles the attempt to expel pupils who weren't Jewish enough (their mothers had been converted by a Reform rather than an Orthodox Rabbi) from a school in London while J K Rowling was writing the later books. NRPanikker (talk) 21:55, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Talk pages are for discussing improvements to the article, not for general discussion of the topic. Are you proposing improvements, or are you just expounding? To be added to the page, you would need to provide reliable, verifiable citations, which the above conspicuously lacks... 04:52, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

I am suggesting points for inclusion in the article, if other readers agree. All of this stuff is well known in Scotland, and could probably be supported by citations from the educational literature, except for the Jewish school in London (was it the Hasmonean High School?) which was reported in the English papers and may require a stack of old Jewish Chronicles or else court reports to verify. NRPanikker (talk) 17:42, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

Okay... but you drawing the parallels constitutes original research; what you need is verifiable, reliable sources that draw the parallels, not primary sources that verify your underlying assertions. Magidin (talk) 18:16, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

It's good that Wikipedia is patrolled by experienced Thought Police, since many users such as myself lack sufficient crimestop to avoid inadvertently slipping into thoughtcrime. NRPanikker (talk) 12:02, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

@NRPanikker - please familiarise yourself with Wikipedia guidelines, specifically WP:OR and WP:FORUM, before making further additions. --Michail (blah) 16:17, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Having undergone the prescribed penance, I can now see that WP:OR says, inter alia, "This policy of no original research does not apply to talk pages" and WP:FORUM, "Article talk pages exist solely to discuss how to improve articles." My plea in mitigation is that the entry above was written in the hope that a passing Scottish Potterhead might have the energy to dig up official sources on the differences between the two systems of education, not to attract the attentions of a patrolling WikiPrefect. NRPanikker (talk) 18:05, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 September 2019

Change 18 to 17 216.56.54.2 (talk) 16:54, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

Could you be more specific? Which "18" to 17, and why? Magidin (talk) 18:31, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

Hogwarts Express edit

This is my first time making a suggestion for an edit so please excuse me if I do not do this correctly.

I am a model railroader. I've been doing research on the "Olton Hall." I recently found out that Hornby is coming out with the GWR 4-6-0 "Olton Hall" 4900 Hall Class sometime in 2014. I believe it is OO scale. Here is a link to their order screen for the actual train: http://www.hornby.com/shop/2013-range/railroad/r3169-gwr-olton-hall-5900-hall-class/

Cinnamoncheryl (talk) 18:25, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi Cinnamoncheryl. That does indeed look quite like the Hogwarts Express, but to conclude that it really is the Hogwarts Express would be speculation. It would count as original research, which we have a policy not to include. What we would need is a reliable source stating in so many words that the Hogwart Express is based on such-and-such a model. Regards, --Stfg (talk) 10:55, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

The "three-rail HO gauge model [...] produced by Märklin" referred to in the article is actually the Hornby OO scale model refitted for 3-rail operation, and with a Märklin coupling. The coaches in the set are similarly Hornby OO scale MK1 coaches with Märklin-compatible wheelsets and couplings. Whilst the box only mentions HO (on the grounds that most German buyers have never heard of OO scale), the models are OO and therefore a bit too big for HO. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.167.187.238 (talk) 22:50, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

Reference to "LGBT". Why?...

Why exactly is the following included?

In response to the query, "[D]o you think there are a lot of LGBT students in modern age Hogwarts? I like to imagine they formed an LGBT club," Rowling replied, "But of course."[17]

Maybe we could mention that JK Rowling has not confirmed whether ot not nob-binary people who use they/them or xe/xir pronouns attend Hogwarts.

What do you think? — Preceding unsigned comment added by RichardScales7 (talk • contribs) 16:59, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

I think the LGBT / LGBT club quote has a reliable source and should be kept. I also believe that the absence of a quote about non-binary people is a bit hard to be justified. Do you have a reliable source about what you wish to include? Mateussf (talk) 18:26, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Hogwarts location

The current version of the article says "In the novels, Hogwarts is somewhere in Scotland[10][11] (the film Prisoner of Azkaban says that Dufftown is near)". I believe this can be improved.

The Columbia University says that Hogwarts is located on the Highlands of Scotland region [5], although they don't say where they got this information (maybe from a fan wiki?)

Also, this fan analysis disagrees with the Dufftown information, and says that "the three best options are probably the Galloway Hills, southern Argyll and the Kintail area".

I believe the Highland information should be included. I'm not sure about the fan analysis thought, but I thought i should bring it here to discussion. Mateussf (talk) 18:35, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Unlock please

Does it really need to still be locked?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 36.11.228.249 (talk) 01:57, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 November 2020

I would like to Edit "Hogwarts" article so I can add notable Hufflepuffs, Slytherins, Ravenclaws, and Gryffindors. Carrot Cake Cats (talk) 16:00, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. --HurricaneTracker495 (talk) 16:01, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 30 September 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not Moved. (WP:SNOWCLOSE). Station1 (talk) 17:46, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

---

Hogwarts → Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry – The full name, still commonly used. This is like Princeton University which is not titled Princeton. Kailash29792 (talk) 07:00, 30 September 2021 (UTC) Kailash29792 (talk) 07:00, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose, unlike Princeton, Hogwarts is not a real institution. The current name is unambiguous, more WP:CONCISE while no less WP:PRECISE, and clearly the WP:COMMONNAME. —El Millo (talk) 07:10, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose - similar reasons to El Millo, but primarily based on Commonname. Nobody - whether in universe or reality - calls it "Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry", it's just "Hogwarts". Chaheel Riens (talk) 07:36, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose; WP:CONCISE, WP:NATURALNESS. BilledMammal (talk) 12:09, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:44, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose move. Not the first time I've seen an editor take Harry Potter as reality. O.N.R. ^(talk) 16:20, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose - WP:COMMONNAME seems dispositive. Magidin (talk) 16:27, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose It's not a real place—blindlynx (talk) 18:31, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
• Neutral, graduated from there in ought-5. Randy Kryn (talk) 20:08, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:CONCISE. ModernDayTrilobite (talk) 20:57, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose, "Hogwarts" is the common name. The argument about an official name cannot be used as Hogwarts is fictional. JIP | Talk 22:56, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose Britannica uses "Hogwarts" alone even though the longer title seems to appear in the search box. Crouch, Swale (talk) 08:30, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.