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Jeremy James prod

I have removed the {{prod}} tag from Jeremy James, which you proposed for deletion, because its deletion has previously been contested or viewed as controversial. Proposed deletion is not for controversial deletions. For this reason, it is best not to propose deletion of articles that have previously been de-{{prod}}ed, even by the article creator, or which have previously been listed on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion. If you still think the article should be deleted, please don't add the {{prod}} template back to the article, but feel free to list it at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion. Thanks!

Just a bit of extra info that the template doesn't let me add: the article was proposed for deletion in the past (9/15/08) and already contested. So it has to go to Articles for deletion if you want it considered for deletion. raven1977 (talk) 23:09, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Question

You're an admin, what should I do about this deadlocked discussion? Just remove it? :) CTJF83Talk 02:13, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Get some more input. There's only a couple comments - There's a great opening already on Talk:Same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_States. Also put a note at Talk:Same-sex_marriage. You might also mention WP:UNDUE, which doesn't specifically deal with this, but is related. Also, Same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_States doesn't even mention the tribe, so that's one place to start. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 02:35, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

What do we do when it looks about even? Count the "votes" and go with what the majority says, or ask a 3rd party to "decide"? CTJF83Talk 00:24, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Response, please? CTJF83Talk 21:05, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

There's no time limit. :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 04:29, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

LOL, well I'm an impatient queen...throw your admin weight into it (like you did) and remove it! :) CTJF83Talk 05:19, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

You know this has nothing to do with being an admin or not - it's simply a content question that needs to be decided by consensus. And since I've weighed in to the argument, even if it were an admin function, I'd be disqualified. So get a cuppa tea and watch the situation unfold :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 05:22, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

So being no time limit, does that mean we could be sitting here deadlocked for 12 months?? CTJF83Talk 05:25, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes, we could. And your tea might get cold. :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 05:25, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

LOL, I hate to be a pain...but how do we "know" when a consensus is reached? Is there some definite threshold that has to be met? Do we just have to convince all the supporters of leaving it in, that they should switch their view? That is what I meant by "using your admin weight". How do you, or any admin decide what the consensus is, while closing an AfD, CfD, RfA (obviously a Bureaucrat)? CTJF83Talk 05:41, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

(outdent) Again, there's a big difference between admin decisions and non-admin decisions. For admin decisions, there's no hard-and-fast rule, but there are guidelines. You can read them at the descriptions of WP:AFD, WP:CFD, etc.

For content, things can be somewhat murkier. For *strict* content (like including "Sam was born in Kentucky"), the guidelines are providing sources and relevance. Most of those discussions are non-admin discussions that just need to be hashed out, get WP:3O, and keep discussing. And for living people, you have to include WP:BLP, which sometimes *does* stray into admin decisions. And admins make mistakes, too - which is why we have WP:DRV and the like.

In this case, you could remove the Coquille and request that supporters provide sources that indicate why the tribe's stance is important (have there been any books or news articles on it, for example). Since a quick gNews search provides nothing, you could argue that it doesn't meet the "encyclopedic" threshold, and that it doesn't belong. Of course, WP:CCC, so just keep watch and keep discussing. And keep an open mind - just maybe the tribe's actions will change the US constitution - stranger things have happened :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 05:52, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

HAHA, them changing the Constitution is a long shot! Ok, I'll give it till tomorrow when I wake up, to see if any more discussion, otherwise I'll remove it, on either not notable enough, or not encyclopedic enough. CTJF83Talk 05:56, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Would you mind commenting here? I need more input, and your an active project member. CTJF83Talk 20:14, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

BTW, how come we haven't gotten a proj newsletter lately? Not sure who makes those. CTJF83Talk 19:12, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Would you like to help me come up with guidelines and develop this category? CTJF83Talk 16:29, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm impatient, lol....yes/no? CTJF83Talk 18:41, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

What do you need me to do, darlin'? I thought the feedback you got at WT:LGBT was pretty good. Be bold, create it, and let me know if you need specific help with anything. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 18:44, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

LOL, "darlin'"...anyway, I do need specific help from you, and other project members, in setting specific guidelines for the inclusion of the category on an episode page. How much LGBT material needs to be in an episode before it can have the category tag. I don't think a brief joke, or a few seconds of a character should be included (obviously), but we need specifics or IPs and new users will add it all over the place to where it doesn't need to be added. CTJF83Talk 19:57, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, if it were me, I would look to see what other "television episodes with..." categories there are and see if there are good inclusion guidelines. Other than that, I don't have much experience in creating these guidelines, and it's not really my forté. I'll be glad to review and make snide comments, but I'm afraid that's all I can offer :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 22:50, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Chandra Mayor

What does "rm cat" mean? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fourdollars (talk • contribs) 22:52, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

My edit summary meant "Removed category not supported in the article". There's no indication in Mayor's article that she's lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender, which is what the "Category:LGBT writers from Canada" is for. If I'm wrong about that, would you add information to the article and make sure it's properly sourced? Thanks! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 00:01, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Hey again, well, I have a few references that could work it just seems out of place to throw in a sentence of "oh by the way..." on to her article. But here is one that you could check out from Xtra, a Queer Toronto newspaper, if you want: http://www.xtra.ca/public/National/The_new_Mayor_of_Canadian_literature-5304.aspx

Fourdollars (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 22:51, 21 October 2008 (UTC).

Thanks, Fourdollars! I've added that information to her article. Many thanks! BTW, when you add something on a user's talk page, you can "sign" your post by typing four tildes: ~~~~

Thanks again! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 00:57, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

List of bisexual people.

Good morning!

Might I ask you to call on your bot to pull out all the people listed as bisexual on the List of LGB people and dump them in the list of bisexual people? I want to put the entire list on a poster and then put "Lots of people are bi. Get over it. You too, Stonewall." under it. It seems that there is one bisexual awareness poster on earth, and I think we can do better than that. :) Dev920, who misses Jeffpw. 20:57, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Satyr. :) Sadness that there are only 256 bi people on the list of lgb people, but that's more than enough for a poster, yay! I am going to a debate on gender neutral toilets now, on my return I will look at ze drag queen list. See you then. :D Dev920, who misses Jeffpw. 16:37, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

The list looks great, but I was wondering about the column headers. Would "stage name" be better than "persona"? Also, will you be listing orientation on it like we do on list of lgb people? Dev920, who misses Jeffpw. 11:53, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't think orientation is necessarily good information on this list? But I could be convinced otherwise. Stage name works for me. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 16:42, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Ancient history

Hi, SatyrTN. True, I was very new to editing and didn't source that Lucas Silveira was a transman, but... Oh wow, I just looked and you're right I didn't even make the unsourced statement at that time. Damn, I was really green. But your response on the talk page was that it was "a controversial statement". That's what we're talking about over on that deletion review, the presumption that it's a controversial statement to say anyone is a drag queen. However, if you'd knew anything about Lucas, you'd have known he was trans, so in that case it was so not controversial. An "I'm feeling lucky" random Google hit on his name easily had a 99% probability of being an article that said he was trans. You were right, it needed a source, but I really bristled at the presumption of controversy, not having any idea who he was. I just want people to take a glance toward a little research, even if you have to do it yourself, before calling something like that controversial. -- AvatarMN (talk) 05:48, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Hm. If I knew anything about Silveira, I wouldn't be looking him up in Wikipedia :) I still believe that being Trans is far more "controversial" (though that's not the right word) than being a drag queen. Being Trans is a radical change in several aspects of one's life, which may cause difficulties in work, relationships, even just walking down the street. Drag is an occupation that, outside of work, may or may not cause any problems in anything else in one's life. Another way I think about drag is that we're all born naked - everything else is drag :)

But you're right - controversial isn't the right word. Being Trans (IMO) is definitely something that should be sourced. Being a drag queen probably ought to be sourced, but isn't as big a deal (IMO).

So sorry if I hit a nerve about Silveira - I didn't mean to :) If it helps, I'm a WikiFaerie that reviews 50 — 100 articles a week that are put in LGBT categories, usually with an eye towards making sure it isn't vandalism. I've also been working on this list that started with over 2,000 people, checking to make sure each one is sourced. Silveira was just one I ran across - I bear no ill will towards him, nor you. Just wanted to make the encyclopedia better :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 07:28, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Same-gender pedophilia is LGBT

Your claim on my talk page that Happiness is not an LGBT-related film is incorrect. Although it is fictional, its portrayal of a dedicated homosexual pedophile is accurate. The pedophile character in that film used planned predation to target young boys only (one victim is shown, the other is referred to later). If he were straight, it would have been impossible for him to do what he did - no heterosexual man could bugger a male of any age under any circumstances. A straight man would not have a motive to do such a thing in the first place. No matter how sadistic and power-crazed a straight man is, he would not even consider committing homosexual acts against anyone. Whilst many straight men deliberately commit power-based abuses, they never use the method of buggering a male - only homosexual and bisexual males are capable of that, due to the biological basis of acheiving an erection. In order for a male to be the active participant in a homosexual act, he has to be sexually excited by another male; that requires him to be either homo or bi. The fact that pedophilia is a power abuse issue does not preclude the fact that pedophiles are hetero, homo or bi, just like the rest of the population. Rape is a form of power abuse, but rapists are hetero, homo or bi; hetero rapists only target female victims, homo rapists only target male victims and bi rapists target both genders. Pedophilia and rape are both sexual power abuse moral and legal violations; no-one would claim that rape and rapists cannot be LGBT - therefore many pedophiles are LGBT by definition. All pederasts (which the character in Happiness is) are simultaneously homosexual/bisexual and pedophilic. The claim that no pedophiles are LGBT, or that pedophilia has nothing to do with homosexuality, is a lie. It is propaganda, used by the LGBT community, in an attempt to unjustly clear themselves of any blame. Only a small minority of people are pedophiles. It is not in dispute that pedophilia is a perversion much more common in men than women. It is equally true that pedophilia is much more common in LGBT men than in straight men. The statistics by orientation of pedophiles known to the authorities, along with the proportion of victims that are of each gender, proves that absolutely. One of the main characters in Happiness is a pederast, which, by definition, is an LGBT person. Therefore, Happiness is an LGBT-related film. Werdnawerdna (talk) 17:01, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Wow, nothing you have said is supported by the data. Men are very opportunistic about sex. They can get erections for no reason, or just by thoughts/fantasy of partner-free masturbation. Men who have no particular sexual inclination toward other men get "service" from willing gays just out of urge, have sex or rape in prison when females aren't available, and very commonly have sex with men for money. All of this is very well-documented. Straight guys who've preyed on boys are very well-documented, too. If sending your mind somewhere else to be able to perform with a full-developed man can get you through to orgasm, how much easier must it be to imagine an undeveloped boy has feminine qualities? Pedophiles are opportunists, and men are put in positions of trust with boys much more often, girls and parents of girls are more suspicious of men. You don't know anything about what you're saying. -- AvatarMN (talk) 17:36, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I've replied on Werdnawerdna's talk page. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 17:41, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Ramba (comics)

Thanks for your input! The reason the LGBT tag was on there is the protagonist is bi. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 00:27, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Tried to clarify and linked it. Because I've read them, I can see where in the text it was already mentioned, but it did need clarity. No out-of-world sources I know of. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 01:34, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

FLC

Hello, the FLCon is currently running and unfortunately part of the problem with it is that most of our current regular reviewers are entrants. I would hate for people to lose in the contest solely because of a lack of reviewers, so could you please take a look at some of the following FLCs if you have time?

• Y List of Honorary Fellows of Jesus College, Oxford
• Y List of acquisitions by Hewlett-Packard
• Y List of universities in Nova Scotia
• Y List of Governors of Arizona
• Y List of St. Louis Rams head coaches
• Y List of Vancouver SkyTrain stations
• List of Soul Eater chapters (closed before I could review)

Thanks for your time, Scorpion⁰⁴²² 14:18, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

I have responded to your comments at Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Honorary Fellows of Jesus College, Oxford. Regards, Bencherlite^Talk 11:34, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Certainly, thanks for volunteering to review. The current entries for round 2 are:

• List of Nobel laureates in Economics
• List of Adobe Systems mergers and acquisitions
• Cy Young Award
• Extreme points of Bulgaria

Have fun reviewing. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 23:30, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Could you take another look at mine and Sephiroth's list (yeah, I know it's annoying that you have two different people addressing the same concerns, this is why I always suggest people let test case FLCs pass before nominating new ones). -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 23:01, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Le Corps Lesbien

Hello. Can you please redirect The Lesbian Body to Le Corps Lesbien? Both titles are commonly used; the book was first written in French. Actually, the English title is more commonly used than the French one in English papers, but it is sometimes used if the scholar is a perfectionist. Anyway, there is a red link from Monique Wittig, so I thought it'd be good to sort it out. I have no idea how to redirect pages.Zigzig20s (talk) 14:06, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Help:Redirect will give you an inkling :) I'll make this one. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 14:10, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Personal

Thanks for your invitation to create an account on Wikipedia based on my edits of the NH page. (I've also contributed history recently on the pages on Digital's PDP-11, PDP-8, and VT52; the URL is usually that of the Exeter NH library.) Wikipedia's requirements for personal information are minimal, but I am not encyclopedic on many other topics and am not sure I want a new hobby--though it's been addictive so far. --Spike, Brentwood NH —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.60.78.79 (talk) 14:57, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Have now done so; thanks again. --Spike-from-NH (talk) 21:45, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

List of drag queens

Hey, thanks for your outstanding contribution to List of drag queens! GeneralBelly (talk) 17:52, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Aww - shucks :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 17:55, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Did You Know problem

Hi. I've reviewed your DYK submission for the article List of drag queens, and made a comment on it at the submissions page. Please feel free to reply or comment there. Cheers, Art LaPella (talk) 03:07, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Jeremy James (singer/songwriter)

I really think this performer is notable - he passes WP:MUSIC for touring from Arkansas to New York. It needs clean-up, though. Bearian (talk) 23:14, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm not convinced. The notability criterion you mention is:

Has received non-trivial coverage in a reliable source of an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country.

Is there non-trivial coverage of his tour? The footnote with that notability criterion says that it's been debated many times in the past, meaning simply satisfying that criterion may not actually mean he's notable.

Do you feel like working on the article some? If so, I'll hold off, but my instinct is to nom for AfD. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 01:11, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes, give me a week or so, thanks. Bearian (talk) 19:43, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

You got it :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 19:44, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I've started to find more citations. Pardon the pun, but he's out there. Bearian (talk) 20:17, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you! Bearian (talk) 17:17, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The Anti-Flame Barnstar
		Thank you for resolving a dispute over questions of notability of a subject. Bearian (talk) 17:21, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Awwww! Thanks :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 17:57, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Press or pressmulti template

Hi

Do you know how to fix this template for formatting: {{press}} or {{pressmulti}}? See Talk:Joe the Plumber for an example. Other article talk pages look the same, regardless of which template is used. Or, where can I file a note for someone to look into the problem. Thanks — Becksguy (talk) 18:16, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

"Fix this template for formatting" - what do you mean? I'm confused. I can probably fix it, but I don't understand what the issue is. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 18:21, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Sorry. Look at the way it presents the three fields of information with: (1) the date in vertical format and all squished up to the left, as if there wasn't enough room, and (2) not enough room for the title in the center, also too far to the left. The author line on the right seems fine. Or is that an artifact of my screen? It used to be OK not that long ago, but now looks bad on all articles. — Becksguy (talk) 00:01, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

See how that looks for ya. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 05:26, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Perfect. Thanks much. — Becksguy (talk) 07:25, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Ecology of minnesota

Hi SatyrTN! Thanks for responding to my speedy delete request. I put in the change thinking that Minnesota was the only region with a proper "Ecology of ..." title and another with a lowercased proper name. I now see that there's also Ecology of africa, Ecology of banksia and Ecology of california. However, none of these redirects actually have pages that link to them. That is to say, in the year that Ecology of minnesota and the others have been in existence (they were created in November 2007 by a bot), no one has mistakenly lowercased Minnesota in a link. Is it Wikipedia policy to predict people's mistakes and make extra redirects to account for them? (I am asking genuinely, not to provoke of argument.) Where is the line drawn? It seems this would create a lot of unnecessary articles (and would crowd the predictive search box, as it did for me). Let me know your thoughts. -- Techtonic (talk) 06:22, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

I've replied at User talk:Techtonic. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 14:01, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Gary A. Marx

Hey SatyrTN, I have moved over to your talk page because I have another question. When doing research on another project I happened upon the page of Gary A. Marx. The article is slanted, does not cite any references and has been tagged for over a year in one case and close to a year in another. The cat listings are wrong as well. Would this be a case where one would nom for delete or try and clean it up? Is he even notable enough to clean up the article? Thanks -- LaughAlotDot (talk) 13:39, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi, LaughAlotDot! This article does not seem to pass WP:N, notability guidelines. Being the president of a consulting group is not grounds for a wikipedia article. In this case, you have two options: {{db-a7}} might work, but since the article itself is a year and a half old, it might not. My suggestion would be {{prod}} - prod is designed to say "delete this if no-one responds", which would work perfectly here. I would go with the full:

{{subst:prod |concern=Individual does not pass [[WP:N|notability]] guidelines.}}

Let me know if you have any questions or if I can help with anything else! Happy editing :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 14:08, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks once again, SatyrTN. I placed the tag on the page. If no one objects after five days, what do I do then? Also I put some new questions on the Jon-Marc McDonald page, if you get a chance. Thanks LaughAlotDot (talk) 17:12, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

No need to do anything else. Check back in five or six days to see if it's been removed (which means there's *someone* who thinks it's worth saving). If it's still there, it automatically gets moved to the speedy deletion queue and an admin will delete it. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 17:33, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

List master!

		The LGBT Barnstar
		This fruity barnstar is for SatyrTN for the awesome amount of work he put into getting seven! featured lists of gay, lesbian, or bisexual people! Put me on the M list because I'm gayer than you. Moni3 (talk) 00:33, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Oh, thank you, Moni! Coming from the person who's done TWELVE FA's, you are definitely gayer than I am :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 01:24, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Greetings & Thanks

I'd like to thank you for the Wiki Welcome. You're the first person I have encountered on Wiki who has ever done me that courtesy.

I personally try and keep things as simple as possible, and hardly ever read user pages, prefering in my dotage not to get too involved with online "debates". For some reason, people prefer stereotypes and refuse to see the broader picture, and miss many of the nuances we try and include within an online discussion, which of course leads to misunderstandings and a certain lack of consideration.

As to my anti-google stance, I have an aversion to any kind of an attempt of anything becoming a monopoly. That's a throwback to my Union roots ;)

Again thanks, be well and God Bless. Brattysoul (talk) 18:11, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

You're totally welcome! I like to slap the cookies down for anyone I see that doesn't have a talk page yet, or that hasn't gotten a "Welcome" from anyone.

I *totally* understand about the anti-monopoly stance - I wage my personal war against WalMart and Micro$oft.

Happy Editing! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 21:01, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

I would like to discuss your recient redirect to Midtown Sacramento

as consensus was to keep rkmlai (talk) 05:33, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

A month later and there are no reliable sources besides the one brief fluff piece. If you can find one source that talks about Lavender Heights, in any detail, I'll let it go. But since you disagree with the redirect, I'm probably going to AfD again. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 06:21, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

So I will put more effort to finding a source. I will get back to the article soon. Thanks for your response. rkmlai (talk) 06:30, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Sorry if I seem brusk - this "article" offends my sensibilities. All my searching on Google and I found bare mentions, but somehow it survives AfD - just not right :) I'll do some searching too and see if I can find anything different. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 06:33, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

What would match your idea and vision of "notable" for Lavender Heights, California ? When I google "Lavender Height, Sacramento, California", I get a lot of references for the district, it's geographical boundaries, it's sights and some history of conflicts. BTW: I do think that the title of "Lavender Heights, Sacramento, California" is indeed a better title than "Lavender Heights, Sacramento". And I do feel it currently is a "fluff piece" but that it needs to be expanded v. deleted. rkmlai (talk) 06:58, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

What makes a neighborhood notable? That's the question. Being listed as a neighborhood for a bunch of realty websites is pretty standard for *all* neighborhoods - does that mean they are all notable? Real estate offices are known for making up names and promoting that 'hood as "THE" place to live.

Some history, or some references from sources other than newspapers, would (IMO) make the place notable. Does that sound right? -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 14:10, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

I will look for those kinda items then. Thanks. rkmlai (talk) 14:47, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

RfD nomination of MOS:UNLINKYEARS

I have nominated MOS:UNLINKYEARS (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) for discussion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at the discussion page. Thank you. –xeno (talk) 14:33, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

User:Reqluce

I noticed that you recently warned this user about his comments to other editors. His recent edits at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ask for More as well as his edit summaries on the corresponding article (where he made fun of my spelling, I'm not English by the way) crossed into personal attacks and spoke of me in a bad faith manner. Could you have another word with him or take it further if needs be. Would appreciate. — Realist² 19:58, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

A few problems

I tried to copy your picture of chocolate chip cookies you put on my talkpage by going to edit this page and writing down the functions you put in the picture and then putting the stuff on my user page so I could welcome people to Wikipedia when they saw my userpage and I copied that link too, but it is red like it goes to a page that doesn't exist. Please respond on my talkpage. Patches1998 (talk) 13:32, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Deletion

Hey SatyrTN, Darth Panda tagged the Jon-Marc McDonald article for speedy deletion. It meets the notability guidelines, and no explanation was given, so I don't know why it is up for deletion. What should I do other than add the "hang on" tag, which I have done and asked why the tag was put there in the first place. —Preceding unsigned comment added by LaughAlotDot (talk • contribs) 02:11, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi, LaughAlotDot! Looks like that got taken care of. You've got enough good info in the article that it *should* be okay, but this is a consensus driven process, so there may be bumps :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 02:25, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. I'll be back for advice should any "bumps" arise. LaughAlotDot (talk) 02:38, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Tristan Garcia's first novel

Hello, I've just finished Tristan Garcia's first novel, La Meilleure Part des Hommes. There are fictional representations of Guillaume Dustan and Didier Lestrade, though the course of events is distorted. Just thought I'd mention it as we talked about Guillaume Dustan sometime ago. It's an interesting novel if you can read in French.Zigzig20s (talk) 04:45, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Re: Patches1998

You're welcome to unblock them if they request it - personally, however, if they're going to act that immature here, and post that private of information (he's 10, according to his deleted page), they don't need to have an account without someone supervising them. Having looked closer at their contributions, I'd be open to an unblock provided he was more careful about his conduct. Hersfold ^(t/a/c) 05:45, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Patches1998 (talk · contribs) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 15:53, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

question about deletion

Why was the page Category:Television stations in Dallas-Fort Worth deleted?

Please reply to gilcarrick@gmail.com CrazyGilmore (talk) 20:41, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

California

Hey, keep an eye on the California gay marriage page, and the 3 gay marriage templates. Since nothing is official yet, they still have marriage. CTJF83Talk 23:53, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

You gots it! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 00:50, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

If you wanna pass it on to other proj hard hitters, or post on the proj page, or do nothing, lol CTJF83Talk 00:51, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

You want to consider protecting the templates, because IPs are going to keep changing California CTJF83Talk 01:00, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Non-online sources

Hey Satyr, I tried looking for how to quote non-online sources but came up empty. How would I quote a syndicated column from a specific date that is not online but was published? ThanksLaughAlotDot (talk) 01:49, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi, LaughAlotDot! I use the {{citation}} template, which allows you to put in journals, books, magazines, etc, that haven't been published online. Let me know if that works for you or if you have any questions. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 02:26, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Tyler Perry Essence Source

Hi Satyr, I have a few questions about the Tyler Perry article. I added the following portion: "Despite persistent rumors about his sexuality, Perry denies that he is gay." (Since posting that, I have since created a Wikipedia username.) I included a reference to the print article from Essence. Ref: Millner, Denene. "The Unstoppable Tyler Perry." Essence; Aug2007, Vol. 38 Issue 4, p15. The print article is a bit longer than the online article you mentioned as your reason for editing. The printed article also includes a section in which rumors about Perry's sexuality are discussed explicitly. What is the policy regarding sourcing articles not available online, particularly as the version of the article online exists on an altered format? Also, is your contention with the passage I included purely because of the source, or do you think the phrasing is misleading or unethical? Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by SCGloverDC (talk • contribs) 14:02, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi, SCGloverDC! First, welcome to Wikipedia! I've posted a welcome message on your talk page with some links to good information for a new editor.

Second, with respect to Tyler Perry, I'm kinda leery about the Essence article as a source. I've had a chance to read what I think is the full article at this page. My concern is that he doesn't come right out and say that he's straight. There's a section where he skirts around the issue:

Perry is still by his damn self, though there have been persistent rumours about his romantic life—everything from relationships with various African-American starlets, including Tyra Banks, Tracee Ellis Ross and Oprah's BFF, Gayle King, to the suggestion that he's gay. Perry, who will neither confirm nor deny the Banks relationship, says that his "friend" King is a hang-out buddy, and that he did go out on a date with Ross, "but if you go on one date, it's not dating." Beyond that, the notoriously private Perry refuses to say more. But he doesn't hesitate to address the gay rumours, acknowledging, first, that climbing into a dress and wig and packing his face full of Maybelline could very well lead people to question for which side he's hitting. "It used to bother me a whole lot in the beginning, it really, really did," says Perry. "But what it's done is give me firm seating in my manhood. And if some people can't separate the character from the man that I am, then that's their issue, not mine."

There's a follow-up section that talks about wanting kids, but not without a wife:

"I want two kids, a boy and a girl. But I don't want to raise them without a wife. I'm too busy to do it alone. I need to make sure I have a solid relationship, so I know we'll be together to raise these kids, and they won't be somewhere with another man. That would be my undoing." It's possible Mr. Perry might already have a vision of the perfect partnership. "There is one I love to this very day and will always love," Perry says quietly. "If there is a woman who is perfect for me, it's her."

It's all very poetic, but other than talking about raising kids with a wife, it doesn't say he's straight. And given the sheer number of gossip pieces that say he's gay, I'd like to have a *good* source on there (one way or the other) rather than a bunch of wishy-washy ones. So unless we have a good, well-respected reference, I'd rather leave *nothing* in there than add unsupported info. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 16:03, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome information on my talk page! It's fascinating looking at Wikipedia behind the scenes - there's so much more going on than I realized. The passage you quoted above is the exact one I was referring to. I agree that the article is very wishy-washy in its approach to the question. It implies without really being overt. I guess I just found it interesting that the rumors on the Internet are rampant, yet nothing is mentioned on this article. I see where you are coming from though; there isn't really a legitimate way to talk about the rumors without an adequate reference. Thanks again! SCGloverDC (talk) 17:43, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Hey, SatyrTN, I just noticed yesterday that you deleted the stuff I typed about Tyler Perry being gay and having 23-year-old girlfriend. We just cannot be sure he's gay because there were rumors spread about it. One reason I "may" think he's a homosexual because he's not married and homosexuals don't like to make love with the opposite sex. But he's not, he's a Christian man, I hope. So I found a couple of websites about him dating a model named "Gelila Beleke". 21:19, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

• Meet Tyler Perry's Girlfriend, Gelila Beleke
• Tyler Perry's Ethiopian Date/Girlfriend or is Fiance

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Christianster45 (talk • contribs) 21:19, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Christianster45! In no way am I advocating any statement on the article that he's gay - unless a reliably sourced reference can be found that says so. Likewise, I'm not advocating for any statement about Perry's supposed girlfriend - unless a reliably sourced reference can be found that says so. The two references above are not considered reliable - blogs almost never are. If you or I or SCGloverDC can find a reliable source, then we can put in the information. Otherwise it really shouldn't be there. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 22:30, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi, SatyrnTN, I just noticed you rejected the two articles above. True, there are blogs stating people's opinion about things. Like you, I reject "totally" now that he's gay because I can't find a reliable source stating truthfully that he is. Still I am not sure about is supposed-to-be girlfriend. Let's just put end to this discussing whether he is gay or not because we don't know him well enough to state that negative comment. Thank you and long live Tyler Perry. talk 23:53, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Homonormativity

You redirected Homonormativity to Heteronormativity with an edit summary suggesting it was merged, but the merge was not completed, and the term is not mentioned in the Heteronormativity page. I'm undoing the redirect for now, not because I oppose the merge, but because the redirect could be misleading. —Snigbrook 13:02, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

In fact there was no merge, just a de facto deletion of the former article. But it is clear that these are two quite different concepts. The one refers to a culture in which heterosexual identity is presented as "normal". The other seems to be about a process of fitting homosexual identities into a pattern defined as normal (primarily stable couple-relationships and nuclear families). Paul B (talk) 13:57, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Yvonne Hemmingway

You deleted Yvonne Hemmingway as csd-a1. Another editor recreated the article, and I edited it to establish the context. Could you please restore the article's history? I think that an earlier version of the article was deleted as an expired prod, and that version seems more complete than the current version. -- Eastmain (talk) 15:55, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Sugar & Spice

You recently rated Sugar & Spice (Picket Fences episode) as Start-class on the quality scale. I have requested a peer review of the article. If your rating was other than automatic for a newish article, you may want to register suggestions on the peer review page. Otto4711 (talk) 20:44, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Willa Cather's Paul's Case

I've reverted the talkpage back to the WP tag because you conceded that it should be tagged on the WP talkpage.Zigzig20s (talk) 21:04, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

FB - hehe

I saw that photo of you as a youngster on your friend's FB - so fresh-faced and innocent! --David Shankbone 06:36, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm rather embarrassed - and at the same time joyous - that I looked that young :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 06:46, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

It would be interesting to know what you saw for your life then, and how it is now. --David Shankbone 06:55, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Question

• Category:Fictional transgender, transsexual and intersex people
• Category:Fictional intersex people

This is mainly concerning "intersex". In looking over the members of the category, I see characters who have the superhuman ability to transform into male or female, and I see androgynous-appearing characters. If those are removed, there isn't much left of this category.

And then when I start looking over the parent, I see similar issues.

As such, perhaps this (and it's parent) should be a list, in order that sources/references can be provided for each member, and so that the application of the term can be explained/clarified.

What do you think? - jc37 02:22, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

**KABOOM** I hereby empower you! =D

That's actually a fabulous idea! Seems like "intersex" has been used in a very loose way in ref to those articles - surely there aren't too many more besides the ones in Middlesex (novel)? Anyway, I would start by merging, then create the list, then CfD? Though once there's a list, I'm not sure getting rid of the cat is necessary. But go for it - sounds like a good project! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 02:52, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, I can create the list, I suppose, but I may nudge you (or anyone else who would like to) for sources : )

My first step is going to be to see what extant lists already exist. - jc37 03:24, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

My apologies for not getting back to you sooner.

I've found:

• List of LGBT figures in mythology
• List of LGBT characters in modern written fiction
• LGBT characters in comics
• LGBT characters in video games
• List of LGBT characters in film, radio, and TV fiction
  • List of television shows with LGBT characters
    • List of dramatic television series with LGBT characters
    • List of American television episodes with LGBT themes

Noting that they all (and others) are included in Template:LGBT fiction.

So I guess my next question is whether it's appropriate to have a set of lists of "Fictional transgender, transsexual and intersex people" which are separate from the lists above. Or should these be merged into those? - jc37 05:21, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Hm. We have List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people, List of bisexual people and List of transgender people, so splitting them out isn't verboten, but I don't know if that's the way you want to go or not. On the one hand, that's "seperate-but-equalling" trans folks. On the other, hi-lighting notable trans folks isn't necessarily a bad thing. My personal opinion is to split out, but that may just be me. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 05:27, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

List of LGBT figures in fiction and myth is interesting as well.

Anyway, I don't have a large preference on whether the lists should be separate or merged (except that an individual entry may be updated on one but not anothher).

I've pared Category:Fictional intersex people, somewhat. Would you please take a look at it and Category:Fictional transgender, transsexual and intersex people, and make sure that the members are appropriate before I make them into lists? (Probably better to make that determination before, rather than after...) - jc37 06:36, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

• Balthamel is waaay a stretch. Sie isn't transgender in the sense that sie didn't transform from one to another. Technically, sie died before becoming the other gender.
• Herb (Ranma ½) - the character may be able to *change* gender, but that doesn't make him *transgender*. But that one's arguable.
• The Lumberjack Song is not a character.
• Madame Fatal is not technically trans either, but a cross-dresser.
• Mantra (comics) also dies before changing genders, which (IMO) isn't trans.
• The ambiguous nature of Mindmeld makes me question the trans category.

-- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 06:57, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I created List of transgender, transsexual and intersex fictional characters. If someone has concerns that some character was left out (I didn't add the ones you had issues with). They can always provide a verifiable reliable source.

I have no idea how the project prefers such lists, so please feel free to update/format.

What do you think? - jc37 07:37, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Looks boring :) If it were me, I would table-ize it and add at least a "Media" column, perhaps also a "Remarks" column. And I don't know if any of the articles have PD pictures or photos, but one or two wouldn't hurt. Just my thoughts. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 18:32, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Email

Hey. Sent you an email. Don't know if you saw it. If you read it and have no opinion on it, that's fine. Just wanted a confirmation that you saw it. --Moni3 (talk) 17:28, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

You're a genius. The newsletter is great, and that thing you wrote to send to The Advocate looks simply *AWESOME*! I wish I had the way with words that you do :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 05:53, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Aw...pshaw. Go on... I'm going to write another for women and send it to Curve, I think. Have no idea if they'll be published. --Moni3 (talk) 14:18, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

LGBT people

Was there ever an actual consensus one way or the other? Because it seems to me that we're both simply doing the same things we were doing before. But even if there is a consensus to kill some of the occupational subcategories, that would need to actually happen — depopulating a few individual articles from them in the process of doing other cleanup work, but leaving them intact otherwise, isn't really the way to go about it. If you feel there's a consensus to upmerge some of them, then go ahead and officially nominate them for deletion — but as long as they're just left in place without being comprehensively depopulated and deleted, people will continue to use them and to create new parallel ones where numbers permit. Bearcat (talk) 20:20, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

And by the way, as regards categorizing redirects, my view is that the LGBT politicians category needs to be able to directly point a reader to any politician for whom we have biographical information and a properly sourced confirmation of their sexuality, regardless of whether they have an independent article or a redirect to a merged candidates list. If there isn't a "List of LGBT politicians in Canada" to substitute, then the category needs to flag everybody for whom Wikipedia includes any content which includes a properly sourced statement of their sexual orientation, regardless of whether it's in a standalone article or a merged list. And the rules around categorizing redirects don't really contradict that — to me, it falls right under both "redirects whose target title is incompatible with the category" (since it would be inappropriate to file Liberal Party candidates, 2008 Canadian federal election in that category instead) and "categorization of list entries". Bearcat (talk) 20:28, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Consensus at WT:LGBT/CAT seems to lean that way, with some discussion left amorphous about *which* profession categories to keep. I'm feeling over-worked about the whole category structure because no one else seems to care - which is simply another way of indicating consensus for status-quo. However, I would like to at least work *towards* the cat structure outlined in the discussion, and part of that means not creating new subcats that are totally at odds with the structure - like Category:LGBT musicians from Australia. Please?

As for categorizing redirect pages, I'm totally opposed to them. If the politician is notable (say, the first lesbian politician elected in Toronto), then she needs an article. If the person is *not* notable, including them in the category is misleading (since there's no article), ripe for BLP issues, and somewhat violates WP:FRINGE in that we're including this minor piece of info about a person. The guidelines are pretty clear, too, that they probably don't belong here. With respect to WP:CAT-RD:

• "Redirects whose target title is incompatible with the category" - the text on that bullet totally doesn't fit with your list entries. It's talking about multiple names for an article, not list entries.
• For the 6th bullet, it focuses on *long* lists, and mostly as an alternate way of browsing those long lists. The example categories are heavily full of redirects - they fit more with the "Categories just for redirects".

In short, there's not a strong reason to include the non-articles in the categories, and the BLP issues at least are grounds for *not* categorizing the redirect. My feeling is we can create an article if the person is notable enough, and if not, leave them out. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 06:21, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject LGBT studies Newsletter

This newsletter was sent by §hepBot (Disable) at 21:25, 12 November 2008 (UTC) by the request of Moni3 (talk)

Kyle Justin

Hery SatyrTN, I noticed you removed something from the Kyle Justin page under categories. You removed the queercore and queercore groups cats as well as previously removing the LGBT people in the US cat that I added to the page. Though it hasn't explicitly mentioned Kyle is an out gay man, it is implied that his band Dirty Barby was a queer punk band, both influenced and a part of the queercore scene, and the references include a citation from the underground but commonly known queerzine by Larry-bob (also mentioned on the queercore wiki). If this does not satisfy your criteria I will add several articles I've found online where he and the band mentions they are a punk band comprised of all queer musicians, refer to themselves as "the queer Abba," citing that they are in relationships with one another, and several other queer publications including a homocore zine and the like. I would like the include these as I know he is an outspoken and out gay man as I am as well in the same music scene. I guess I'm mainly asking for advice as I am new to this. Thanks! Hope to hear back soon...

P.S. Please bear with me as I am new to this. I just want to do this for an influential person in my life and in my circle of comrades.

Matthew M. W. Eilers 01:03, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Matthew! I removed the queercore and LGBT categories for two reasons. First, the article doesn't state anything about Justin's sexuality. Per Wikipedia's guidelines (see WP:BLP), a claim about his sexuality needs to be sourced. Second, *he* isn't queercore - the band Dirty Barby is. Since the band doesn't have an article, labeling Justin as a Queercore band seems weird :) My suggestion? Find a source that states he's gay - maybe in a gay paper? Or someplace where the phrase "the queer Abba" is used? But isn't everything Abba-related queer? Maybe that's just my sensibilities... Anyway, that's what I recommend :)

A tiny bit of advice - you can "sign" your posts (on talk pages only, not in article space) by using four tildes - ~~~~ - which gets filled out to be your username and the time/date, like: SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 06:40, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for asking, and let me know if I can help in any way! BTW, you might also be interested in WP:LGBT. Take a look at the WT:LGBT (WikiProject talk page), and if you are interested, sign up? :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 06:40, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

John Hervey

This is what the source says about John Hervey, 2nd Baron Hervey. (Does the scholarship exclusion in copyright mean quoting it is OK here?) "Lord Hervey was bisexual. It is necessary to state this point directly because changing senses of propriety over the years, combined with the bite of Pope's caricature, have obscured a proper understanding of the nature of his sexual orientation. There can be no doubt that he found women attractive. In addition to his marriage to Mary Lepell, he wooed and bedded Anne Vane and claimed (along with others) to be the father of the child she bore in 1733. He may have had an affair with Lady Mary Wortley Montagu and perhaps one with Princess Caroline. But there can also be no doubt that he found men attractive. He followed Stephen Fox to Italy in 1728 and frequently lived with him over the next decade. He wrote passionate love letters to Francesco Algarotti, the multi-talented Italian intellectual whom he first met in 1736 and for whose affections his chief English rival was, of all people, Lady Mary. He may have had a sexual affair with Prince Frederick before their friendship dissolved. While the laws of the eighteenth century prescribed harsh penalties for men who engaged in homosexual activities, high society generally preferred being amused to being outraged when the miscreant was one of their own. Hervey, moreover, was happy to play the role of amuser, sometimes striking feminine attitudes and happily conjoining them with feminine behaviours. He was undisguisedly, even proudly, androgynous. He thus was the frequent target of salacious humour. William Pulteney called him ‘Mr Fainlove … such a nice Composition of the two Sexes, that it is difficult to distinguish which is more praedominant’ (Norton, 149), while an anonymous tract styled him the ‘Lady of the Lords’ (ibid., 152). And, leaving Pope's contributions aside, Lady Mary Wortley Montagu delivered the most celebrated of the contemporary judgements when she wrote that humankind was divided into three sexes: men, women, and Herveys (Hervey, Some Materials, 1.xiv)." The Dictionary of National Biography is about as good as source as one could wish, I'd have thought. I have reverted. My attempt at paraphrasing may be clunky. Please feel free to rewrite. Soane (talk) 22:16, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Imerslund

Please discuss on the talk page first, before removing sourced information from an article with the justification that it is "poorly sourced". Just because you personally find something dubious, doesn't mean that the source is unreliable. This is what the tag {{dubious}} is for. Perhaps the problem can be solved by having the sentence in question re-worded instead? —Zalktis (talk) 09:09, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Question

Hey, my friend, apologies for the last message I posted here, when I was a bit frustrated. This question is more upbeat. There is a user on wikipedia who has gone way out of his way to help me out with a page I created, who often goes there to do clean-up and various sorts of housekeeping tasks. This is the sort of person who performs all the small sorts of miracles that we take for granted. How does a user convey thanks for this sort of help, beyond just a thank-you to the person's talk page (which I've already posted)? Is this what Barnstars, smiles and that sort of thing are for? Does it help to tip an admin that this person goes way out of his way? In any case, thanks for all your help in the past and best regards,MarmadukePercy (talk) 03:44, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Barnstars are definitely the way to go - they show appreciation and are always welcome. Tipping an admin does no good - we're just janitors :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 06:24, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

LOL. As always, many thanks for the advice. Where does one grab a barnstar or two?MarmadukePercy (talk) 06:31, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

WP:BARN, of course :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 06:36, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Shoulda figured that one. LOL. Thanks again for all your help.MarmadukePercy (talk) 06:45, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

The end of the story. I gave that person a well-deserved barnstar. Thanks once again for your advice. There are some extraordinarily kind people who use this site. The person to whom I bestowed the barnstar is in the U.K., has a fine eye for detail and has tidied up and added to my original (sometimes arcane) entries. Amazing. Thank you again.MarmadukePercy (talk) 06:48, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Jason Danino-Holt

I declined the speedy because the article claims he presented multiple programs with big tv stations/channels, which is a claim of notability this making it unsuitable for speedy deletion. Also, I believe that if this article comes to the eyes of the right editors, the referencing issue can be solved relatively quickly.- - Mgm|^(talk) 05:53, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

• Since you nominated Jason Danino-Holt at AFD, people have been adding sources. Perhaps you would like ot reconsider the nomination. Remember, it's the quality of the sources, not the amount of them :) (They also searched in Hebrew). - Mgm|^(talk) 13:43, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Template talk:LGBTProject

I've requested an edit to this template if you would like to take a look. Regards. PC78 (talk) 16:56, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Re:Sortability

Yeah, I was hoping Matthew would leave the FLC open a little longer, but I guess he thought it was closeable. I get what you are saying with the structure, but I feel that repeating giving each Laureate an individual row (which would mean repeating the same rationale two or sometimes three times) would make the table harder to understand which also effects the table's structure, usefulness and visual appeal. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 20:29, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Same sex union templates

Hey there Satyr. I've just been chatting to User:Ctjf83 and he tells me he asked you to protect a coupld of templates for him. He's just told me that he doesn't plan to carry on the dispute about whether CA should be included and he's asked me to unprotect so I did. If there's any problems with that at all just reprotect. Take care, Ryan Postlethwaite^{See the mess I've created or let's have banter} 23:05, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

No problem whatsoever - thanks for letting me know :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 23:07, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

HAHA, ya, I've given up the fight for gay equality...at least as far as the templates go. Someday...perhaps. CTJF83Talk 23:12, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Arthur Laurents

Hello. Although Laurents asserts he rejected all fundamentalist religions at an early age, according to his memoir he continues to identify himself as Jewish. I will clarify that fact and revert your edit. Thank you. LiteraryMaven (talk) 12:44, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! Hope I didn't step on toes - it just seemed odd that the very first paragraph said one thing while the cats said another. Thanks for clarifying. :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 21:07, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

What does not kill us makes us stronger

While the jury is out as to whether this shit is going to kill me, you expressed an interest in helping. It's long, depressing, but will make us smarter in the end I suppose. I need suggestions and stuff. Not yet finished, but will be working on it for the next few weeks. --Moni3 (talk) 18:13, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

What can I do to help? Read? Summarize? Criticize? I'm not sure the best way to do this, since I don't have the access to sources that you do. Is there a good general overview of the org or something that I can review? I don't mind ordering a book or two if that will help. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 18:15, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

I review a lot of articles I don't know crap all about. If you read through it and something is unclear, seems muddled, let me know. I'm particularly befuddled about how to make this article seem neutral. Clearly I'm biased, so I think I'm approaching this as a look at a political campaign between a bunch of nutjobs and slacker gays who couldn't get their acts together. How much credence do you give to Bryant and the scare tactics she used? Should it be considered a legitimate concern though it was based on fear and the complete ignorance of facts? Just anything that seems slanted, not neutral, etc. I'm still adding citations, and some sections have yet to be written, such as an expansion on California, a section for Seattle, and an expansion at the bottom for Gay activism. I might expand the Moral Majority section as well. Dunno yet. Ask me questions. Let me see if I can answer them. --Moni3 (talk) 18:26, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Sounds good - I'll review tonight or so and let you know what I think and what questions I have. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 18:36, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Geobox/type/settlement

An issue has been raised at Template_talk:Geobox/issues#Bad mayor lks that I am hoping you might be able to help with. The problem is that an entry for "mayor =" is automatically redlinked. This is fine in the (unlikely) case that their mayor is famous (or chosen as candidate for VP), but otherwise it results in a redlink that is (generally) very unlikely to turn blue. The only fix seems to be to inserting an &nbsp ; into the name. Since only a handful of mayors are article-worthy, it would seem a Good Thing to kill the automatic linking. Could you take a look at it? TIA, -- Mwanner | Talk 22:06, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

If you aren't the right person to deal with this, could you please suggest another approach? Thanks -- Mwanner | Talk 13:27, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

No new comments at Template_talk:Geobox/issues#Bad mayor lks or Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Infoboxes#Geobox auto-link. Time to move ahead? TIA -- Mwanner | Talk 13:37, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Jason Danino-Holt

Hey. Why do you remove the sentence about his homosexuality? Edenc1 • Talk 07:52, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

I've replied at Talk:Jason Danino-Holt. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 15:37, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

FL

Hei, many thanks for that featured list review! It caused the most work of any reviewers, which is a good thing :-).

If you have time, you could also look at my other 2 going through FLC at the moment? I've already applied your suggestions from the other list here, just the name ordering to do for all 3. (These are again sub-lists - the articles on the actual awards i'm going to try for GA first, and hope they don't find it to be too listy).

I'm planning to do the name sorting using Matlab, so i'll let you know how that works before begging for more help ;-). If the naming order is the only thing preventing featuring, you could write it as a conditional support, so the promoters can decide if i've done it, unless you prefer to keep track yourself.

Either way, thanks again.Yobmod (talk) 10:13, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

LGBT categories

The proper procedure going forward is to nominate the unwanted categories for deletion at WP:CFD. You can cite the LGBT discussion in your reasoning, but until CFD has actually whacked them it's really not proper procedure to just depopulate them two or three articles at a time while leaving the categories themselves in place. Even depopulating them all at once would be an improvement — but taking only two or three articles out of the subcategory at a time, while leaving fifty or more others in it for another several weeks until you take out only two or three more, really isn't the right process to follow.

The bonus that comes from following the proper deletion procedure is that once there's a CFD consensus, instead of having to do so much of the work yourself and feeling overworked and stressed out by that, the work will get done for you by a CFD caretaker in one five-minute AWB run.

I'd also note that you've even been depopulating subcategories that you seemed to agree should be kept, such as the politicians. Are you approaching things from the belief that there was a consensus to kill all of the occupational subcategories? Because while I can accept "actors", I really don't think there was see any kind of consensus to delete all of them. Bearcat (talk) 18:55, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

If I've moved some individuals from politician categories, that was misguided of me. It was not part of any attempt to do that wholesale. As you saw, last night I went through half the Canadian actors, intending to do all of them and to follow up with the German and US cats. Which *is* one way of working with categories - see CSD#C1. But if you insist, I'll run through the hoops and get fuller consensus. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 19:24, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Just so you know, C1 doesn't mean you can purposely depopulate a category with the intention of subsequently having it speedy deleted for being empty — it applies primarily to categories that have never actually been used, or which got accidentally left over by an earlier process of merging, deletion or fixing an erroneous creation. A category which has actually been in genuine use for an extended period of time does need to go through CFD rather than speedy. Bearcat (talk) 19:35, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Beta Theta Pi

Why did you vandalize the Beta Theta Pi page re the Jeff Skilling entry? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.129.128.26 (talk) 20:25, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Hm. First, I didn't vandalize the article. You might want to review WP:VANDAL to understand how that word is used on Wikipedia. Second, I felt that the phrase "convicted felon" was too much information for the simple list of names of notable individuals. If you feel different, let's discuss that on the Talk:Beta Theta Pi page where we can come to consensus. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 23:51, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

I am not into this heavy editing of Wikipedia and don't have the time to become expert at it. I only make minor edits. But you simply reverted without even bothering with the capitalization. As for adding the phrase "convicted felon" giving "too much information", it would seem to me that "former CEO of Enron" should be the words deleted - why? - because Skilling is best known for being a convicted felon - with the fraud, Skilling wouldn't even be known to the general public - Skilling's claim to fame is his infamous felony conviction - yet the way you have left it, a reader of Wikipedia would be led to think, "Oh, this guy was best known as a business leader" - that's not true, he's best known as the convicted CEO of Enron. But I don't want to get into a fight - I find there is a lot of this on Wikipedia and would prefer to leave the misinformation - I tried and somebody (you) came along and reversed it (within hours I might add - and I find that so many reverts happen within hours if not minutes). So, I say "leave it" - I know that Skilling is best known for his felony conviction and I no longer care if Wikipedia readers gain the correct information from the article.

Oh, one other thing I guess I gotta ask - are you a member of Beta Theta Pi??? That would explain your revert (your explanation of what you did seems contrived). I also notice that a lot on Wikipedia - that many people view certain pages as "their's" and seek to only present the positive aspects of articles (organizations, associations, fraternaties, universities, whatever). They view these pages as a kind of "advertizement" for their organization or whatever. This also detracts from Wikipedia's usefullness. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.129.128.26 (talk) 04:07, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Wow - I'm sorry I seem to have hit a nerve. Like you, I'm simply an editor trying to make a better encyclopedia. If you look at the situation from my perspective, you might get an idea of why I reverted you.

From my perspective, an anonymous editor who hasn't created an account came to the page of my fraternity (yes, it's my fraternity) and added information that is particularly negative to one person, and which has nothing to do with the fraternity itself. You can see why I might think "Hey, I don't know who this person is, but they're adding bad stuff that really doesn't belong in that particular article, but rather in the article about Skilling."

I don't WP:OWN the article, but I do watch it. You'd be surprised how many editors come to that page and add random, incorrect stuff. I can only presume they are members of other fraternities, or in some way have some beef against it. I try to keep the info on there neutral, in accordance with Wikipedia's WP:NPOV guideline. Maybe I'm overextending here, but I truly believe the sentence you want to add fits Wikipedia's definition of WP:COATRACK - info that is about Skilling, but is put in the BTP article.

As I said, I'm sorry if I touched a nerve. If you feel strongly about the wording, please feel free to bring it up on the fraternity's talk page. Or re-add the wording - I won't revert it, but I suspect others might find it objectionable too. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 04:20, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Well, I would say that it appears that it is the other way around, i.e. I was the one that hit a nerve. You still haven't bothered to answer where I wrote:

"As for adding the phrase "convicted felon" giving "too much information", it would seem to me that "former CEO of Enron" should be the words deleted - why? - because Skilling is best known for being a convicted felon - with the fraud, Skilling wouldn't even be known to the general public - Skilling's claim to fame is his infamous felony conviction - yet the way you have left it, a reader of Wikipedia would be led to think, "Oh, this guy was best known as a business leader" - that's not true, he's best known as the convicted CEO of Enron."

It's absolutely true - most people would never have heard of Skilling if it wasn't for his felony conviction over the Enron fraud. THAT is what he is known for, not for being a "business leader". That's laughable. I mean, it's like a fraternity page listing Jeffrey Dahmer as one of their alumni but then listing him under whatever profession he was in where he made his money, i.e. business, politics, art or whatever . . . . . and leaving out his murders. I have no idea if Dahmer was in a fraternity or was a businessman, but I do know what that he is best known for his murders. Skilling is best known for his felony conviction in the Enron fraud, but the way you've got it reading, he was a "business leader". I guess the Beta Theta Pi members just can't stomach having the truth listed on "their" Wikipedia webpage, and thus the webpage becomes a sort of adverizement. Really, you shouldn't be doing what you're doing - but you are, and that's what makes Wikipedia a poor source on many subjects, i.e. nothing negative is allowed on owners' webpages. My guess is, if you look at all the fraternities, sororities, organizations of all kinds, you will not find anything negative - why? - because the pages are patrolled constantly by the "owners" of that page. Again, you shouldn't be doing what you are doing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.129.128.26 (talk) 09:27, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

First of all, you're right that Skilling is best know because of his connection with Enron. Actually, I hadn't recalled anything about a conviction until your edit - my knowledge of him is that he was up for fraud charges. But, as I've repeatedly stated, if you're interested in adding that text, you should bring it up at Talk:Beta Theta Pi where a consensus can be built.

Second, your tone towards me and my fraternity is troubling. Whether I or other fraternity members can "stomach" anything, and whether I "should" or "should not" be doing what I'm doing, you are attacking me. You are directly confronting me about my motives, my abilities, and my reasoning rather than sticking to content, assuming good faith, and actually working on the encyclopedia. I ask you to please refrain from doing so and to stick to the *content* of the articles in question. Which, as I've said, you can discuss on Talk:Beta Theta Pi. Talking about it here is doing no good whatsoever except in as much as you are trying to troll me. Please stop. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 16:37, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

A Commons question

Hello again, my friend. I hope you're getting ready for a nice Turkey day. When you have a moment, I wondering if I might trouble you for some Commons advice. I have several photos taken by a friend. They were first posted on flickr, but then she sent them to me directly. I have told her I will credit her when I upload them, and have asked her to send me an email 'release' authorizing me to load them to Commons. Do you think this will be acceptable procedure with the grand panjandrums over there? Any advice you could give would be excellent. In the meantime, enjoy your holiday. Best regards,MarmadukePercy (talk) 01:13, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Ooh - there are several factors that I know about when it comes to photos, and I am no expert.

First, you should check to see if the photos are still on Flickr. If so, they will need to be marked there as PD or GFDL. I'm not entirely sure how to do that, but I know that it needs to be done.

Second, you should send an email to her *and* to en-permissions@wikimedia.org. Then, when she replies in the affirmative, she should send that to you *and* to the same permissions address. You can find more at WP:COPYREQ.

I'm going to enjoy a full T-day with friends, and will be playing with my new pinkberry :) Hope you and yours have a fun day as well! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 04:21, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Richie Wilcox

Hi SatyrTN. Just to give you the heads-up, I deprodded this article after adding several references that help to establish notability, in my view. Best wishes to you, Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 01:53, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Kyle Justin

Hello SatyrTN, I am contacting you because I am in need of help. I'm fairly new to Wikipedia. You have helped me before, so I am contacting you.  :) I noticed reverted edits by user 69.239.112.1 to the Kyle Justin article by another admin. This 69.239.112.1 user has edited the article several times, performing destructive edits. I believe these edits are covered under the vandalism policy as they are repeated and unnecessary. She has edited the article more than a few times, deleting necessary information, claiming it as redundant, when it is not. The information she has deleted is either not referenced elsewhere in the article or is necessary to repeat in order to properly lay out a time-line of events. I created this article for a musician I am fond of and myself and several others have contributed edits and citations. I believe we have cited the article well. I am looking for help to prevent further vandalism by this article, as she has performed these same edits about 5 times. (Text removed  Chzz  ►  20:34, 27 March 2009 (UTC)) I sought help from another user named writingmodification but I don't believe they are an administrator. Any help, advice, or recommendations are greatly appreciated. Thanks ahead of time. I am perturbed and perplexed. -Matt, M. W. Eilers 03:35, 27 November 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Godblessyrblackheart (talk • contribs)

Hi, Matt! Glad to see you still on here :)

Since Wikipedia is an encyclopedia that *anyone* can edit, the rules for when a user is blocked or an article is protected are pretty strict. You may want to review those policies for how they work. The short of it, though, is that the IP will have to be notified about the consequences of vandalism for a minimum of three times before they can be blocked. And since it's happening roughly once a week, that could take a while. I suggest simply using the warnings (see WP:WARN) when the vandalism happens. If it gets to {{uw-v4}}, let an admin know at WP:AIV that the fourth warning has been placed. Someone there may or may not block the user - it kind of depends on who is around and what they see as reasonable. Even if the IP isn't blocked, when/if it happens a fifth time, do the same thing. At some point one of three outcomes will happen - the user will give up, having spent fruitless time once a week attempting to make a change to the article, or the user will be blocked and will decide they really don't want to keep messing with it, or the user will begin to dialog on why they think the changes should be made, at which point (hopefully) reason will prevail :)

I hope that helps - I can imagine that from your perspective that is a daunting and useless process. But the rules have been developed over time and for specific reasons, so that's the way it works.

As a minor side note, instead of typing out your name and the time, you can simplify your life by simply typing four tildes (as in ~~~~) at the end of your post. That will automagically be expanded to put your username and the time. Just a tip :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 04:45, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

WP:LGBT

Evening! I have been chatting with Moni about trying to give WP:LGBT a kick in the pants, and I noticed that quite a few project pages are out of date. I initiated a couple new bot reports (Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies/Article alerts and Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies/Cleanup listing), and mocked up a (very rough) new implementation of the open tasks template here. I've also compiled up-to-date lists of FAs, GAs, and DYKs, and started compiling a more thorough watchlist. I'd like to incorporate Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/LGBT articles by quality log somewhere, reevaluate the ruleset for the new articles feed, and figure out if there's a better way to catch certain brands of idiocy before they get so far. I know you used to maintain some of the todo listings via bot, and I hope you have some brilliant suggestions for me. Would you be available for a brainstorming session with me and Moni sometime in the near future, ideally on Skype? Maralia (talk) 04:09, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Maralia! I would be delighted! I know we have the Special:Recentchangeslinked/Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies/Articles, which watchlists all LGBT articles. The other things you mentioned I don't have much knowledge around, but am willing to learn! :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 05:20, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you—events (both real-life and onwiki) have conspired to distract me lately. I'm glad you're so enthusiastic! I have a noisy four-year-old son; the best time for me usually would be late evening (9pmish) after he's in bed. I have company coming over tonight, though. Are you set up for Skype already? When are you most likely to be available in general? Maralia (talk) 17:26, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Maralia! Tonight's not good for me, either. And what time-zone are you in? Most likely after 9ish is good for me, too, depending on the time-zone thing. I am skype-capable, though I'm not very practiced at it :) Let me know a time and date and I'll try connect. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 20:42, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

How silly of me to forget to mention my timezone! I'm in EST. Moni is taking a bit of a break to recover from some bug; I'll revisit scheduling in a few days. Maralia (talk) 03:31, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

If it helps, I tried really, really hard! I even scrunched up my face and thought hard! =D

Let me know when it all works out and I'll join :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 05:52, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Bot glitch

What caused SatyrBot/Maintenance logs to be created? — RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 08:05, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Um - I don't know? The bot has been running the same function nightly and writing to User:SatyrBot/Maintenance logs every night. I have no idea how tonights ended up in mainspace. I'll watch what it does tomorrow and make sure it doesn't happen again. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 08:26, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Notability of Sebastian Cole

SatyrTN: since you made several edits to this article, it would be great if you dropped your 2 cents into the page removal discussion, one way or the other, since that is what it's up for. Would be much appreciated, if you have the time. Thanks!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Sebastian_Cole#Sebastian_Cole

-- KDS4444^Talk--KDS4444 16:24, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion: Northumberland Package Handling

Could you please explain your speedy deletion of the page Northumberland Package Handling. You listed it as blatant Advertising, while the page certainly was a stub and could by considered by some to be non-notable (though it was twice mentioned in a nationally distributed business magazine), the page only contained basic information on the company. My understanding of the Spam policy is that only pages that blatantly only exist to promote a product or company should fall under that criteria.--Nicklinn (talk) 17:44, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Nicklinn!

The article in question was three sentences long, had no indication of any sort of notability, no references, and had gone through no real editing or expanding in the nearly three years of the article's existence. Another editor marked it as spam, and I deleted it for the reasons I just mentioned. WP:SPAM is more concerned with articles that are blatant advertising, but the article in question did nothing but promote the company, which is what {{db-spam}} is for. It might have been better to send the article through WP:AFD or WP:PROD, but with only three sentences, I wasn't sure it was worth it.

If you'd like me to restore the article to your user-space, I can do that. If you think the company is notable, I highly recommend you take a look at WP:CORP to make sure it fits Wikipedia's guidelines. Thanks! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 21:08, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Please kick it over to me if at all possible. One of the reasons I care is that I actually took great pains to track down 2 Canadian Business articles that mention the company and place it on their Profit 100 list.

I guess I have to agree to disagree with you on it being blatant advertising,as the article really told very little about what it did and focused more upon basic facts (being based in Port Hope, being privately owned, etc). While I could understand it being nominated for WP:AFD article had none of the criteria of Wikipedia:Spam I ask that in the future you don't shortcut things. Thanks. -- nicklinn  22:05, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

User:Nicklinn/Northumberland Package Handling. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 22:16, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Gwen Stefani

I decided to add her cause she's actually more iconic to lesbians. I've read a few Lesbian News and The Advocate articles which stress she's been viewed as a lesbian sex symbol. She responded positively to the title, I just wish I had a few more online sources to expand on her in the main gay icon article. Apparently she's been a lesbian sex symbol for years now. The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 05:51, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Hunh. Who knew! :) SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 08:11, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

thanks

Thanks for the welcome message. : > --Doorbuster (talk) 02:36, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Drag pageantry

Pure incompetence on my part. The version which I deleted consisted of a vague blurb followed by a cut-and-paste of the Frank Zappa article. Not only did I not check the history (I usually do), I also didn't check "what links here" (which I never do but probably should) and to top it off I lazily deleted it through the db template. If you're not an admin this last bit won't make much sense but the result is that the deletion log contains the tagger's original db rationale "db-It is crap". The page has now been recreated and I've restored the original history. (But I messed up again and missed my chance to write: "sorry I screwed up" in the undeletion log) I'll leave a message on the talk page. Cheers, Pascal.Tesson (talk) 01:21, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

OSI-related articles, proper nouns?

I'll probably put this on WP:RM, but I wanted to get your input in case I'm totally off-base. Page moves back in August suggest that physical layer,data link layer, and network layer are proper nouns, but I'm not sure if that's the case.

I'm still a little fuzzy on what exactly makes something a proper noun. But was this decision made because they're part of the OSI spec? If so, I think at least physical layer is not a proper noun. The OSI model only covers networks, and the term physical layer is used with point-to-point links as well, so that article discusses both OSI and non-OSI topics, thus it's a general-purpose term.

The other ones I'm less sure about, but I still think they're not proper nouns, if only because OSI is an intentionally abstract spec. --Underpants (talk) 15:53, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jonny Staub

You don't want to be told not to rely on Google hits. Could you briefly describe the sort of hits you got so commenters know you did something more than a simple headcount? - Mgm|^(talk) 00:53, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

order in categories

Hello, SatyrTN!
Here you have breaked at least three orders in categories. Please, be more careful. Thanks. -- Worobiew (talk) 12:22, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Hm. Sorry about that. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 22:23, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

An odd question

Hello, my friend, I hope you're about to enjoy your holidays. I have sort of an odd question for you. On the page of Phillips Exeter Academy list of alumni, there seems to be some sort of bizarre edit war going on. I'm a bit in the dark on this, but looking at the history, there is a growing list of additions, subtractions, reversions and whatnot. II'm unclear who's doing what, exactly, although an alumni list seems to be a petty thing to want to vandalize. The discussion (which I'm not joining) has now spilled oover to my talk page, which is unfortunate (and cluttering). Would you mind straightening me out about this? (You might want to keep the discussion here on your page to avoid riling the gremlins, lol). Thanks again.Best,MarmadukePercy (talk) 18:25, 17 December 2008 (UTC) Sorry, here's the page link: List of Phillips Exeter Academy alumni. It appears that I got taken in myself. Oops.MarmadukePercy (talk) 19:37, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Technically, people added to lists like that should a) be notable (and therefore have articles), and b) have a reliably sourced reference that backs up the claim. So yes, there's something of an edit war, but at the moment it doesn't look all that heated. If the warring continues, WP:AN3 and/or WP:RFPP is the way to go. Theoretically, though, the involved parties will keep discussing things and get it worked out :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 19:53, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

I have added several folks to the list (and contributed to the main article), and as an alum I was gratified to see that a new user was helping to maintain the list. Now it appears that the 'new user' is also a sockpuppet who has used many other blocked accounts, and now this new name is blocked as well. I'm a bit miffed why anyone would go to the trouble of vandalizing pages of a small New Hampshire preparatory school, but I suppose you never know.... MarmadukePercy (talk) 20:01, 17 December 2008 (UTC) Just to be on the safe side, I've gone back and added footnotes on the folks I've added (until I have time to write their entries). MarmadukePercy (talk) 22:15, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

The Canaan Dog and WP:Judaism

Is the SatyrBot adding the template for the Judaism WikiProject with regard for content related to the Jewish religion, or ... what? I've encountered quite a few strange non-religious associations that might arguably be better tagged for the Jewish History WikiProject or possibly the Israel WikiProject, and in some cases (i.e. not systematically) I've been making the change myself, manually. But just now, discovering the Canaan Dog Talk page with the Judaism WP template was enough to send me here to comment. Can this Bot be refined in some way? Is the problem that the word "Jewish" pertains to both the religion (Judaism) and the Jewish people? Pardon me if this has been raised before and answered; I'd like to understand and perhaps help find a solution. -- Thanks, Deborahjay (talk) 20:31, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Further: Thanks for your offer of intervention, but for now I'll do the work manually, from time to time as opportunity allows. Actually, I'm doing some maintenance work on practically every questionable page I investigate - format cleanup, language copyediting, even a misplaced stub that I've recommended for merge. I'll get back to you if I get bogged down; meanwhile, keep up the good work! -- Cheers, Deborahjay (talk) 21:12, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Sofinnova Ventures

I am working on creating articles on notable private equity firms as part of the Private Equity Task Force and am currently working on Sofinnova Ventures and Sofinnova Partners in my sandbox.

I noticed you deleted an article started for Sofinnova Ventures in October and before I finish mine, I wanted to see if there was any content in there worth keeping. Although the article may have failed to express it, this is a notable firm. I am not sure what condition the article was in when it was deleted. It would be great if you could restore the text as a subpage in my user space User:Urbanrenewal/Sofinnova Ventures and I will get it in shape. |► ϋrbanяenewaℓ • TALK ◄| 16:55, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

No worries - I figured it might not be particularly great content - I put a first draft up for Sofinnova (I combined Sofinnova Ventures and Sofinnova Partners intoone article) last night which hopefully is an improvement from the last time around. |► ϋrbanяenewaℓ • TALK ◄| 14:16, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Fictional pyrokinetics

This was deleted in 2006, and then redeleted in 2008 citing that the first time (2006) it was deleted as per a discussion. The records do not provide a link to this discussion though. Could you please provide a link to it? I am trying to figure out what happened here, and why only physical abilities are represented. Tyciol (talk) 03:37, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

The discussion you're looking for is Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 March 14#Fictional characters by power. Hope that helps! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 03:46, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Another question

I'm just curious why an article about one of Maine's best-known columnists, inducted into the Maine Press Association's Hall of Fame, falls within the wikipedia military history project, which ventures to make an assessment on it? Is there no corresponding wikipedia group on the media (seeing as how the man spent his entire life in journalism, and three years in military service)? See Ralph W. 'Bud' Leavitt Jr.. Thanks in advance.MarmadukePercy (talk) 03:49, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

All resolved, thank you.MarmadukePercy (talk) 23:56, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Incidentally, I wanted to thank you for all your help since I came here. May you and yours have a wonderful holiday.MarmadukePercy (talk) 04:31, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, MP - I hope you have a wonderful holiday, too! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 03:44, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Yup

Get it together grampaw! :P - ✰ALLST☆R✰ ^echo 06:38, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Sillyness! What's this about? :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 07:07, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Re: Jett Blakk

Well, there was still a consensus to keep. It was determined by the majority of the participating editors that the subject does meet WP:PORNBIO. Cheers, –Juliancolton ^{Happy Holidays} 14:10, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

WP:BIO states, "The person has received a notable award or honor, or has been often nominated for them". Jett Blakk has been nominated for several awards. –Juliancolton ^{Happy Holidays} 16:48, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

File:SatyrTN-Roundbox-nt.gif listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, File:SatyrTN-Roundbox-nt.gif, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Skier Dude (talk) 05:56, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Mohamed El Naschie

Could you please explain why you restored the article Mohamed El Naschie that I deleted some months ago? Cheers, Jitse Niesen (talk) 21:56, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Honestly? I have no clue. I was on Wikipedia for a few minutes that day, and I don't remember undeleting that article - I'm sorry if I've caused offense, but I have no recollection of doing that. I'm going to change my password right now, just in case. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 16:53, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm not offended (it wouldn't be good for an editor here to be offended that easily!) and I doubt anybody else is offended. Somebody else has already deleted the article again, so all is good. Thanks for your answer. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 14:17, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Category:LGBT actors

Hey, sorry not to have responded yet -- I got distracted by other stuff (on & off Wiki). Believe, I know how disheartening it is to put in that much work and barely get any comments. So I'll do my best to post a reply some time later today. Regards, Cgingold (talk) 13:17, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Technical question

Hope you had a good Christmas, my friend, and will have a prosperous New Year. In the meantime, I have a question about a technical glitch I encountered which caused me to lose some work. I was working on the entry on John L. Stevens, and had added some good background material, footnotes and links, but when I posted it I lost all the footnotes, external links, etc. I'm not sure what happened exactly, but I'd like to recover the work I did, without having to go back and write the text again, insert the footnotes, etc. Do you have any good ideas on how I might accomplish that? As always, many thanks!MarmadukePercy (talk) 22:02, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Paturis Park

Just to let you know - I've added a bunch of references to Paturis Park and expanded the article. Maybe you'll reconsider? Bsimmons666 (talk) ^Friend? 17:50, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

LGBT Categories

Hey SatyrN! I've read over all the LGBT-related category discussions that I could find and am working on a proposal at User:Scarykitty/LGBT Categories. Could you take a look and give me some feedback or jump in? I'm happy to move it over to the project discussion, but it's still a work in progress and I'd like some peer review before moving it over Scarykitty (talk) 21:22, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

FYI, I closed this discussion and now the moves need to take place. Can you deal with this? Also make sure that I closed this correctly as a split upmerge. Vegaswikian (talk) 19:24, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Ohm Phanphiroj

I have nominated Ohm Phanphiroj, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ohm Phanphiroj. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. CaveatLector ^{Talk Contrib} 19:45, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

SatyrTN was inducted into The Hall of The Greats

On January 5, 2009, User:SatyrTN was inducted into

The Hall of The Greats
This portrait of Faye Dunaway was dedicated in his honor.
David Shankbone.

The inscription is the description. David Shankbone 20:42, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:Milford, NH Town Seal.png

Thanks for uploading File:Milford, NH Town Seal.png. You've indicated that the image is being used under a claim of fair use, but you have not provided an adequate explanation for why it meets Wikipedia's requirements for such images. In particular, for each page the image is used on, the image must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Can you please check

• That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for each article the image is used in.
• That every article it is used on is linked to from its description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --FairuseBot (talk) 10:41, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Note I fixed this issue. FUR said it was for another city instead of Milford, NH. I would suggest you go to the image page though and change the source of where the image came from. :] - ✰ALLST☆R✰ ^echo 12:02, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

I want to Unsubscribe from Wikipedia

Please, if you can, could you help me, I don't know how. I blanked my user page and I want to have my user page and all it's history deleted permanently as well as my account. I want to unsubscribe. Please help me as I don't know how to unsubscribe. Good bye, 20yearoldboyfromNY (talk) 00:26, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

I was sitting by the fountain at Dupont Circle...

File:Pan Walking.jpg

...when I noticed a Satyr bolting through the park. I had time to snap a pic with my cell. I think this may be you, but I'm not sure.

APK lives in Dupont and Gomorrah 15:34, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

ROTFL! Many thanks - I didn't realize my paparazzi were stalking me! :) Next time I'll make sure to show them/you something interesting! :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 05:11, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

A 140+ character answer

Actually just "m:Stewards" is decidedly less than 140 characters, but the content on the aforementioned page isn't. :) EVula // talk // ☯ // 08:07, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Jenni Olson

Noticed that you'd removed the category LGBT directors from Jenni Olson. Check out the SF Chronicle article which is the second reference and it mentions in the second paragraph that she has a female long-term partner. I don't wish to edit the article myself since I know her.--Larrybob (talk) 02:48, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

What can I say...

Hello, SatyrTN - I thought I should come by here first before adding my thoughts at the new CFD. I'm sure you felt a bit let down when I didn't rejoin the last CFD discussion after promising that I would. (I had every intention of doing so, or I wouldn't have promised in the first place.) Unfortunately, I have some ongoing health issues that result in fluctuating energy levels from day to day, so by the time I got back to the CFD it was already closed. At any rate, you wound up with the result you were hoping for, so perhaps I did you a favor! :) Regards, Cgingold (talk) 19:39, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi, Hon! Absolutely no problem at all - I have been a bit .. strange in my wikitime, too. Keep your health up - that's the most important thing you can do!  :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 00:26, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Transgender

It's pretty darn hard to get on chat line i'm about to give i swear —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.160.181.8 (talk) 20:10, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

I have no idea what you're talking about? -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 07:20, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Leonardo da Vinci

Please stop adding Leonardo da Vinci to the list of gay, lesbian or bisexual people. Only proven LGBT people are included in it, and Leonardo is only suspected in homosexual relationships by some researchers. Thanks. --Dr. Bobbie Fox (talk) 10:19, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Neutral notice of RfC

I am considering letting the larger community know about an RfC, with the following notice:

  ==Request for comments on articles for individual television episodes==
  A [[WP:RFC|request for comments]] has been started about the
  inclusion of certain television episode articles. Please join the
  discussion at [[Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(fiction)#Final_adoption_as_a_guideline]] to help archieving consensus.

Ikip (talk) 19:22, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Jorge Merced

I have expanded the discussion of Merced as an openly gay man (with inline reference) and reinstated the link to the category LGBT people from Puerto Rico which you deleted.--Lawrlafo (talk) 17:04, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

James Branch Cabell

Hi SatyrTN, Thanks for the copyedits of James Branch Cabell. I'm glad to see that its still being watched. It seems like one of the changes you made was to turn all of the vertical references I made into horizontal. I find vertical references far easier to read. Out of curiosity, do you have strong reasons for preferring horizontal?--Thesoxlost (talk) 22:09, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

I find the vertical annoying, it takes up too much space, and I hate having to scroll down a long way to get to the section I want :) But it's simply a matter of preference - change at will. I watch the article because of a family connection, not because of any strong attachments to it otherwise :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 22:19, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Question

Okay, here's a dumb question. Can one give barnstars to the folks at Commons? There's someone on there who has been particularly helpful, especially to a new user who has no clue. (Or, if not, is there somewhere I could write to note this individual's extraordinary efforts?) Thanks and take care, MarmadukePercy (talk) 00:22, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Sure! Take a look at [1] :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 05:05, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Done. :-) Many thanks! MarmadukePercy (talk) 05:18, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

featured lists

Hi, i was wondering if you could give me some pointers on getting "can never be truly comprehensive" lists to featured status. I notice you have done most of the nominating for the LGBT people FLs - were there and particular arguements that had to be made to convince reviewers of comprehensiveness?

I'm planning to try and get the List of lesbian science fiction and list of gay science fiction to FL (probably merged to a different title). I have a book that lists SF with LGBT themes up until 1990s, and can give reliable sources saying this is comprehesive. Since then there have been a number of awards that cover this area and a few specialist publishers. Do you think that would be enough? Or do you see different problems in convincing reviewers compared to with the people lists (Eg. Many of the books are only notable for the award nomination, so don't have articles on them yet)?

Thanks for any advice you can give. I asked at the FL criteria talk page, so any reply might be better there (so i can point people to it later :-)).Yobmod (talk) 16:09, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Your comment on that page was a bit general for my reply, so I'm replying here :)

IMO, the award winners + distinctive entries in the book (prior to the awards' existence) would probably work. I would have a concern about which of the entries from the '93 book get included, since (IMO) it wouldn't make sense to include all of them.

Another idea is to split the list into two: "prior to 1993" and "Lambda Sci-Fi Award Winners", or something like that.

You might also get questions about what constitutes "gay science fiction" - just having a gay character? Having a major gay character? Dealing with LGBT themes? That last one could be slippery - many shape-shifters could be considered trans - or could be considered as dealing with trans issues. "The Left Hand of Darkness" quite definitely qualifies as LGBT themes (IMO), but does Odo?

So, given that those questions are considered and argued sensibly, don't worry too much about a) comprehensiveness - set out the criteria and follow it, that's enough. b) future items for the list will be added as time goes on - but if the criteria are good, that should be easy. c) wikilinks - again, if the criteria are good, then whether or not the articles exist isn't too big a deal.

Hope that helps - and I'll try to keep an eye on your lists! I tend to be interested in Utopian and dystopian fiction mostly, but I have quite a collection of sci-fi/fantasy to draw on :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 00:22, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Unblock

Hello. I just saw you have unblocked User:Benjiboi

• without discussing the issue with the blocking administrator first

and

• despite a request for unblock had been declined already.

If you do not provide a very good explanation for your course of action, I will have to consider this to be wheel warring. — Aitias // discussion 17:35, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi, Aitias - I'm commenting at WP:AN3. Thanks! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 17:44, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

As I wrote there your course of action is absolutely inappropriate and constitutes blatant wheel warring. If you don't reverse your action immediately this will give cause to take appropriate action (WP:AN/WP:RFAR). — Aitias // discussion 17:58, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

User:William M. Connolley has been around for a long time and has made a large number of very bad decisions as an admin. Among those who watch the watchers, he is infamous. Don't let this false accusation of wheel-warring intimidate you. That's their only goal. Spotfixer (talk) 18:11, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Barnstar

		Home-Made Barnstar
		Home-Made Barnstar is awarded to people who do a lot of work in difficult areas and do it well. Recipients are able to think outside the box...and their interventions are always, or almost always effective in resolving or progressing difficulties and disputes. This barnstar is awarded to SatyrTN. Thank you so much for helping retain editors who contribute so much to wikipedia, and helping restore faith in the project. Thank you for restoring hope to dozens, maybe hundreds of wikipedians the belief and hope that sometimes there are fair hearings, that sometimes editors who are not admins don't have to be bullied. Thank you for making a tough decision in the face of universal disdain and condemnation, this is the hallmark of a true leader. I have never known an editor to deserve a barnstar as much as you do right now. God bless you SatyrTN. Ikip (talk) 18:33, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Hear, hear! Spotfixer (talk) 21:55, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Well deserved.MarmadukePercy (talk) 23:03, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the sentiment, though I'm not sure how much I deserve it - or how effectively I've resolved any disputes :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 05:42, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Bot-assisted tagging

Today I put a request on User talk:SatyrBot/WikiProject new pages, and only later did I realize that it's been almost a year since you've done that with your bot. I hope you still do. --Descendall (talk) 21:59, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi, Descendall! SatyrBot has not been very active lately. If I have time in the next few days, I'll see if I can clean the dust out of his vents and oil up his joints. Check in with me in a week? -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 05:07, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Just wondering if there is any possibility of doing it. --Descendall (talk) 04:07, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi, Descendall! I'm afraid I haven't had any time whatsoever to work on SatyrBot. You will probably have better luck checking in at the WP:BOTREQ desk to see if anyone there can help. Sorry! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 05:43, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Barnstar of Peace

		The Barnstar of Peace
		I am honored to award you this Barnstar for continued acts on Wikipedia that serve the ultimate good of the project, whether its to unblock and allow a "second chance" or stepping in the middle of a raging tempest to quiet the storm. Keep up the terrific work! Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 01:11, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

		The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
		For unblocking Benjiboi! A NobodyMy talk 03:09, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

LGBT to do list

Is it possible to update it? looks like it hasn't been updated since 2007. Scarykitty (talk) 04:36, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Bleh. The bot used to do that, but it hasn't been working for quite a while. It might be best to just remove it for now... or update manually? -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 00:06, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

(ended up on this page for the same reason) ... It sucks that it isn't working, the list looks pretty good (i had even included it on one of the new tabs on Portal:LGBT, but guess it will have to be replaced with something else (like links to Stubs, etc)) Are there any automated or special pages WP has that could somehow list all articles related to Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies/Articles that include expand tags, NPOV tags, or ____ tags, etc etc.? Outsider80 (talk) 01:05, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Not to my knowledge, but it's been a year or so since I looked. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 01:14, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Nicola Griffith.png image

I noticed you uploaded this image. I wanted to make a cropped version for the Gaylactic Spectrum Awards article (which still needs !votes at FLC). AFAIK, the liscence allows this, but just wanted to tell you in case you start seeing the altered image around.Yobmod (talk) 10:54, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Yep - no problem at all. I'm reasonably sure the license allows for cropping. Nicola was pretty kind about letting me upload with the GFDL license :) I wouldn't mind meeting her some day! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 00:22, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Out of sheer curiosity

Since you're from Tennessee, I was wondering if you'd be interested in creating a page on the Tennessee Equality Project; one on LGBT rights in Tennessee; also, if you'd be interested in taking pictures of places around the state [2].Zigzig20s (talk) 22:54, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Article merge

Aleta

Hey-o. See Perceived sexual orientation. Could you do the merge per the discussion consensus. I'd do it but it's easier if an admin did it, in light of the edit warring from the sole opposition to the merge. Lemme know. ;] - ✰ALLST☆R✰ ^echo 19:07, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm actually a little leery - on two counts. One, I haven't been involved in creating either article, so I don't know what information from the one needs to be put where in the other. Two, I'm not that good a content person, so my first instinct is to simply cut and paste the info, which probably isn't the best solution. Aleta is a *great* writer - maybe get hir to put it in there? Sorry - I'm a wuss about content most of the time :) -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 21:14, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Wow, thanks for the complement, Satyr! I had been hesitant to make the merger myself since I participated in the discussion. If no one else wants to do it though, I could take it on. Aleta ^Sing 21:49, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Heehee, APK! OK, I went ahead and did it. Folks, please look at Sexual orientation#Perceived sexual orientation, and edit as needed! Aleta ^Sing 22:24, 14 February 2009 (UTC)