Talk:Joe Meek

The Buzz

Meek worked with Bowie while Bowie was in a band called The Buzz somewhat around 1965.--212.80.224.243 19:32, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

The Buzz, that recorded one single with Meek, was a scottish band, and has no relation to the Bowie-Buzz. It is known that Bowie visited Meek, but with no specific solutions.

Room for more content

I think Joe Meek's violent methods of work should be touched upon moreso. He was known to threaten and physically assault performers often.

He was also made to wear dresses for 4 years of his life, which could help explain his later mental issues. Just a thought. --JOK3R 14:43, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

The humiliation and emotional abuse probably resulted in something, but a boy wearing dresses does not, itself, breed mental issues. Of course. --Nugneant 10:19, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

The statement "He was known to threaten and physical assault performers often" is more the product of years of exaggeration than fact. Although he was sometimes prone to outbursts, especially towards the end of his life, the vast majority of artists who passed through his studio did not suffer physical attack. --Chertseygirl 5 December 2008

Discography

I think this page needs a Discography section. Could someone help? There is a lot of info at http://members.aol.com/TPavick/discographies.html 65.10.162.46 02:14, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes would be fine, here is another source http://joemeekpage.googlepages.com/recordings.htm

Claims without attribution

This article claims that Dave Stewart and Barbara Gaskin's "Lucky Star", a tribute to Joe Meek, is controversial. No reference/source is given concerning this controversy and I couldn't find one on the web. Looks like the controversy is unsubstantiated to me.

I agree. I am going to delete it. If anyone can provide a citation they can replace it Vera, Chuck & Dave 15:27, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

"It is postulated by some that Meek may have been murdered by record company interests. Indeed, Phil Spector's recent murder trial, and the depraved ruthlessness suggested by the details of the murder in question, gives hints that Spector's "Wall Of Sound" may have been acquired from Meek after all[citation needed]."

In all my years studying Joe Meek I have never heard of this (I'm the author of the original "Death of Joe Meek" thesis which many subsequent articles have been based on), nor has anyone ever seriously suggested that Phil Spector actually stole the Wall of Sound from Joe. If you know anything about recording techniques, you would know that they are two completely different methods of recording, and don't even sound alike. If nobody can come up with a citation, I'm going to remove this entire statement. Chertseygirl 15:27, 5 December 2008

The 'Green door' theory is credited to the Guardian article. I believe that article concluded that this theory was laughable. Furthermore the "X sent me" line is used in dozens of prohibition era movies and became something of a joke. "Joe sent me" was the password to Hernando's Hideaway from the musical 'Damn Yankees' which had been on for about a year when Green Door was written and recorded so this seems like the most likely source of the line. Unfortunately this is all OR so I can't use it as a reason to remove the reference... --213.208.117.47 (talk) 21:44, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Confiscation of Burt's shotgun

Burt may have said that Meek didn't take it from him, but he did! It is well documented that Meek wouldn't shoot the birds in his father's apple orchard, prefering to scare them away with loud music by rigging old speakers in the trees. When Burt told him he shot birds, he went ape!

The confiscation of the gun was witnessed by Chas Hodges, Mike Berry and Meek's secretary Patrick Pink. Burt said lots of stuff after Joe's death, including that he played lead guitar on Just Like Eddie-he didn't, depending on which source one believes, it was Richie Blackmore or Pagey, nor did he Leave his shotgun with Joe, Joe took it from him. Cheers, Lion King 18:41, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Nice one Lion! Absolutely correct! It's well documented in The Legendary Joe Meek by John Repsh. Cheers Pal, Vera, Chuck & Dave 14:33, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

No probs Vera. Be lucky, Lion King 01:49, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:JoeMeek.jpg

Image:JoeMeek.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot (talk) 21:08, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Manish Boys

Is there any proof that The Manish Boys ever recorded with Joe Meek? I've never come across this. Wonder if it is more confusion arising from the Buzz issue. Chertseygirl (talk) 04:22, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

The Kon-Rads, which featured David Bowie on saxophone and possibly vocals, recorded some demos with Meek. They were discovered later as part of the so-called "Teachest Tapes". 67.193.142.207 (talk) 12:34, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Black plaque

Why's he not eligible for a blue plaque? I can't work it out from the blue plaque article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.81.142.249 (talk) 15:56, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

This is a good point, could anyone clarify this? There is a photo of the plaque at [1]. --♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 16:14, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Only my opinion, but I suspect that had Meek shot only himself, then English Heritage or the local borough would have jumped to install an "official" plaque. The fact that he commited murder shortly before killing himself makes the differemnce. It's not rocket science. Nick Cooper (talk) 11:31, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I would suggest that the charge would have been manslaughter rather than murder, had Meek lived. There is no evidence that the shooting was premeditated. Certainly his mental state at the time would have to be taken into account. It doesn't make the event any less tragic and I agree that this is probably the reason for no official plaque. 124.122.168.245 (talk)

By the way, could someone who lives in London take a photo of the plaque and upload it to Commons? This image cannot be used as it is on an external website.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 15:05, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Photography section

I have deleted this again for the same reason I did the first time, i.e. it is nothing more than commercial spam. Wikipedia is not advertising forum for photographers or photo agencies. Nick Cooper (talk) 13:34, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I absolutely agree with this. If it's crucial to provide an image of Meek, we could provide one in the article under fair use, though I don't think it's crucial to do so. In any case, we shouldn't be directing readers to a commercial image provider. — Gavia immer (talk) 14:59, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Photography

• Clive Bubley: Images of Joe Meek - a series of photographs of Joe taken both in the flat and outside 304 Holloway Road, shortly before he died. (All photographs copyright © 1966 Clive Bubley) [2].

If it were not for my entry and the link to my site, the Film Telstar could not have been made because the producers did not know what Joe Meek's office, studio and flat looked like. They used my photographs - with my permission - as a basis for building their sets at Twickenham Studios. Similarly, Howard Berger and Susan Stahman used my photographs of Joe Meek to illustrate their movie "A Life in the Death of Joe Meek" and the BBC used my images of Joe Meek for their Arena production. John Repsch used my image of Joe Meek for the front cover of the first edition of 'The Legendary Joe Meek'

My entry is NOT commercial spam - it is a factual link to most of the only photographs that exist of Joe Meek. Clive Bubleypixelpusher721 (talk) 08:33, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

The issue here is not how useful the material is, since it is interesting and no-one is arguing about this. The problem is the use of non free content. Since you have gone to considerable lengths to say that the material is copyrighted (eg by using the © symbol), it cannot be used in a Wikipedia article except under a claim of fair use. This material could be located in the external links section provided that it did not appear to be offering a commercial service, which is against Wikipedia guidelines.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 09:07, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

This is not true! With my permission a copyright image of mine CAN be used in a Wikipedia article. All it takes is a simple "May I please use this image on my Wikipedia article on Joe Meek?"

The reason that the images on my site have a red line through them is because for years people have been stealing my images for use on various web sites and other uses. Of course I use a copyright symbol with my images! Copyright theft is becoming rampant on the Internet - people have to learn and understand that using other peoples' images (or words) is just common theft and is punishable by law. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pixelpusher721 (talk • contribs) 11:03, 19 August 2009

Please avoid edit warring on this. You cannot plaster material with the © symbol and then claim that it is suitable for a Wikipedia article. The guidelines are clear in this area.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 09:29, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Pixelpusher721, no doubt your photographs were a help in the production of the film, but to claim that it, "could not have been made" without them is somewhat conceited. As Ian notes, you have gone to considerable lengths to mark the pictures on your site so that they cannot be used for anything other than your own soliciting of requests for "High resolution images for reproduction," which I'm sure you do not do for free. Ergo your site is commercial. Nick Cooper (talk) 09:12, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Here is a suggestion: choose one of the images of Meek and upload it to Wikipedia, minus the © symbol, at web resolution (about 300px). State that you are the legal owner of the photo, and are willing to allow it to be used to illustrate Wikipedia under the fair use provisions. The source of the image can be given as your website. Wikipedia has to stick to the rules on copyrighted material, because it is a non-profit organization.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 11:22, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Thank you Ian, I shall follow your suggestion and select an image. Clive Bubleypixelpusher721 (talk) 00:01, 20 August 2009 (UTC)pixelpusher721 (talk)

External links

I've removed most of them. In addition to the link discussed above coming back, there were a bunch of dueling Myspace pages and fansites that failed WP:EL. Please only add links that enhance the article, not advertisements for social networking. — Gavia immer (talk) 21:45, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Price fetched by the tea chest tapes needs a cite

Neither of the sources [3] [4] gives the actual price fetched by the tapes at auction in 2008, although they were estimated at up to £300,000.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 06:58, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Downward spiral

Fair enough to have a section called "downward spiral" but is it really fair to start this with a dicussion of Meek's interest in "the occult"? The presumption is that this is part of a downward spiral and not a genuine interest. This should be restructured. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.65.129.195 (talk) 23:48, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

The section header was changed to "Personal life" which is more neutral. I don't think that the previous title was intended to be a commentary on the occult, but it was rather unencyclopedic.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 05:39, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

He did not turn down the Beatles

Or at least that's what he claimed. He says that they never approached him and that he was really upset about that as he would hve loved to record with them. Now there are many online sources that claim this. Trouble is I don't know how to source things on Wikipedia. Its driving me fucking mental. Why has it got to be so much more complicated for idiots like me on this website than others LOL? Anyway here is the name of one source if you want to google it "Joe Meek and Mersey Beat - Mersey Beat" google that someone who can source things and include it. I feel this should be included. I don't know if Meek did or did not turn down the Beatles my guess is he was probably just saying he never turned them down for obvious reasons, but either way its interesting to see that he never actually admitted to it and evidently came to admire their talents at a later point if he did turn them down, and there is also the possibility he is telling the truth too and never did either since its only third parties years later who claim that he did. --Zolfianyarvelling (talk) 15:56, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Re this edit: the source at [5] is a personal website which is not really a reliable source. There have been claims that Joe Meek turned down The Beatles, eg at the Joe Meek Society. This is an area where a good source is needed, rather than a personal website.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 18:01, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Oh okay I hear but the thing is the source is actually from a magazine interview, its not as though the guy made it up. If anything I would say that this is a more reliable source as like I said this is from Meek himself. I am not going to edit it and put it in again but I still say it should be included as it is quite important as it offers a different side to the famous Meek, Beatles controversy and offers some quite interesting insights into Meek's musical tastes and judgements. I will try and find a more reliable source the interview is mentioned in. Also how did you include that source. I try and copy its adress on google search, but it never takes that and then when I edit out the google bit it just goes blank. --Zolfianyarvelling (talk) 20:02, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

A common error

'Meek's homosexuality – illegal in the UK at the time': homosexuality has never been illegal in Britain. Certain acts were illegal. 86.185.216.32 (talk) 15:42, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

The wording has been changed.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 17:31, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Jonathan King

I cant find kings tribute song - was he ever recorded by meek?41.250.174.155 (talk) 12:12, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

As you probably know, King has written a tribute song about Joe Meek, which is on YouTube here. King also appeared in a BBC television documentary about Meek in which he discussed how Meek produced a booming drum sound using the technique described in the YouTube video. I think this was The Very Strange Story of... The Legendary Joe Meek (8 Feb. 1991), made back in the days when King was allowed to appear on the television. King's tribute song is mentioned in the article at Joe_Meek#Musical_tributes_and_references--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 12:26, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

• King's appearance in the 1991 BBC Arena documentary The Strange Story of Joe Meek is on YouTube here, but "This video previously contained a copyrighted audio track. Due to a claim by a copyright holder, the audio track has been muted" so we can't hear what he says.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 12:46, 26 December 2015 (UTC)
• After some further searching on YouTube, here is King's appearance in the documentary and this time we can hear what he says about Meek.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 13:08, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Joe Meek. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20090131074922/http://www.audioprointernational.com:80/news/968/Brian-Eno-wins-the-first-Joe-Meek-award to http://www.audioprointernational.com/news/968/Brian-Eno-wins-the-first-Joe-Meek-award

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 19:19, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

The Legendary Joe Meek - Repsch

Does noone have a copy of the Legendary Joe Meek by John Repsch?

I feel a load of the unsourced stuff here is probably from the book, and much more could be added. It now costs a fortune to buy in paperback and my copy has long since gone for a burton!

John, are you out there reading this? Oh well. Just a plea for it.

SkagwayEntropy (talk) 19:18, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Joe Meek. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090226033540/http://www.sbindependent.org/node/2540 to http://www.sbindependent.org/node/2540
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140521070542/http://2009.sensoria.org.uk/2008/film/joemeek.html to http://2009.sensoria.org.uk/2008/film/joemeek.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 13:51, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Joe Meek. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120428013522/http://www.txhighlands.com/deccalisting1.htm to http://www.txhighlands.com/deccalisting1.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 16:33, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Joe Meek

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Joe Meek's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "British Hit Singles & Albums":

• From Anne Shelton (singer): Roberts, David (2006). British Hit Singles & Albums (19th ed.). London: Guinness World Records Limited. p. 495. ISBN 1-904994-10-5.
• From Marc Almond: Roberts, David (2006). British Hit Singles & Albums (19th ed.). London: Guinness World Records Limited. p. 20. ISBN 1-904994-10-5.
• From Don Charles: Roberts, David (2006). British Hit Singles & Albums (19th ed.). London: Guinness World Records Limited. p. 100. ISBN 1-904994-10-5.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 05:28, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

Images of plaques and grave

Re this edit: The previous version had two black plaques and a photo of Meek's grave, which seemed to be overdoing it and was also leading to MOS:SANDWICH of the text. The two black plaques are virtually identical so it is repetitive to have them both. I'm 50-50 on whether the photo of the grave is needed. The plaque at 304 Holloway Road is probably the most significant. It is not a blue plaque owned by English Heritage because of the controversy over Meek killing his landlady at the address.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 06:59, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Musician?

Should Meek be categorised as a musician? I would say that he should be, even if he did not play any any conventional musical instruments. "According to the United States Employment Service, "musician" is a general term used to designate one who follows music as a profession. Musicians include songwriters who compose music as well as write lyrics for songs, conductors who direct a musical performance, or performers who perform for an audience...". And, he was "one of the first to develop ideas such as the recording studio as an instrument, and... one of the first producers to be recognized for his individual identity as an artist." So, yes, he was a musician. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:15, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

I see. No firm view. But I'm not sure how much contact Meek had with the United States Employment Service. Does a similar definition exist for UK musicians? Don't think he ever left the UK? But if that definition applies, we'll also need to revert this. And by that definition all record producers, engineers, mixers and editors are also "musicians" by default? Martinevans123 (talk) 09:31, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

It's a grey area. Apparently Phil Spector and George Martin were both musicians. Other opinions welcome. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:49, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Yes, although it seems Joe was not that enamoured with Phil. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:56, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Murderer

I would like to know why the very first sentence in the lede:

"Robert George "Joe" Meek (5 April 1929 – 3 February 1967) was an English record producer, musician, sound engineer and songwriter who pioneered space age and experimental pop music."

...does not indicate that Meek was also a MURDERER. A person has to read down to the very last sentence in the lede, well over 300 WORDS into this page, before they will see the first indication of this. For any notable person who deliberately shoots and kills someone, this info belongs in the very first paragraph, if not in the first sentence.

Imagine if the gun had not been turned onto himself. It would be expected that he would have been tried and convicted of murder. He would then have been sent off to prison. And would be expected to have lived for decades behind bars, and perhaps dying in prison. And then an encyclopedia article about him would be very clear, upfront, that he was a murderer.

The question being posed here is, 'What is the rationale for burying this info at the bottom of the lede just because he killed himself after committing the murder?' I myself see none whatsoever. I recommend that this discrepancy be fixed. Joe Meek was a murderer. A murderer who wrote hit songs. Let's not let the latter overshadow the former. Wikipedia Policy guides us to present balanced information with a NPOV. This lede, in its current form, lacks that balance. --Concord19 (talk) 23:56, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

• MOS:ROLEBIO advises against this. Joe Meek is primarily notable for his music, not for the final moments of his life, and so that is how he is introduced in the article. "In general, a position, activity, or role should not be included in the lead paragraph if [...] the role is auxiliary to a main profession of the person (e.g. do not add "textbook writer", if the person is an academic)."

Joe Meek was a murderer. A murderer who wrote hit songs. Let's not let the latter overshadow the former.

See WP:RGW and WP:TABLOID. ili (talk) 19:24, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

In addition to the above by ILIL, I don't think we could call Meek a murderer in the absence of a conviction. I know it sounds a cop-out but establishing intentionality is impossible.Humbledaisy (talk) 18:23, 30 August 2022 (UTC)