Talk:COVID-19 pandemic/Archive 18

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Mistake regarding Nadine Dorries

"British Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care and MP, Nadine Dorries, was tested positive for the virus in late March."

This is impossible, as it's not even mid-March yet.

136.181.195.9 (talk) 12:10, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

I've removed that phrase. Bondegezou (talk) 12:13, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Non-symptomatic spread

Within section "Causes" and subsection "Transmission" there is the sentence: "The WHO has stated that the risk of spread from someone without symptoms is "very low (...)"". Although this sentence can be seen in the source , it truncates the rest of the explanation: "However, many people with COVID-19 experience only mild symptoms. This is particularly true at the early stages of the disease. It is therefore possible to catch COVID-19 from someone who has, for example, just a mild cough and does not feel ill.", which may provide a false sense of safety (would for me), of the risk of close contact with those that have no symptoms. Jsmelo93 (talk) 11:12, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Here's one preprint of a study which shows that by the time they had tested patients starting to show mild symptoms, the peak shedding of virus had already passed. Patients released a lot of virus in their early stages (1000 x higher than SARS), whether that means they were infectious before symptoms appeared is not clear. Hzh (talk) 12:15, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

References

Jersey/Guernsey

Any particular reason why Jersey/Guernsey are listed separately? Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 01:33, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Separate legal entities to 'the UK' (and Isle of Man should be separately defined for the same reason). 89.197.114.196 (talk) 16:22, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Correct. The are Crown Dependencies, not part of the United Kingdom. Ptilinopus (talk) 15:09, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Authors pls fix disrespect to POTUS

In multiple instances referring to the President of the United States the article assumes an American-leftist centric attitude.

This page is not a undergrad chat room with attendant disrespect. This page should be neutral and not reactionary.

The Chinese President and other world leaders mentioned are titled formally as "Chinese President Xi" etc and so should the POTUS who was properly elected and represents some 65million American people.

"Trump" is not respectful to the office of the President of The USA.

Being disrespectful to political figures is a reason, a easy to correct reason, many people denigrate Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Carzee (talk • contribs)

We did the same for past presidents. We give titles on the first instances and surnames only on subsequent ones. Of the 14 mentions in the article body, the 1st, 2nd, and 4th ones say "President Trump". EvergreenFir (talk) 21:59, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

Agree with User:EvergreenFir Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:20, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

Unnecessary topic used to convey bias and favouritism towards POTUS. This has no relevancy towards the actual topic other than figureheads of different countries responding to the virus. It does not matter who is addressed in what way, the real issue here is displaying the most recent and accurate status of this pandemic. User:Balkanite —Preceding undated comment added 23:49, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

But other special legal entities of Faroe islands of Denmark and French overseas territories are counted under their mother countries.

You should include Channel islands under UK count and mention that count below. Kalpesh Manna 2002 (talk) 19:02, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Incorrect. The Channel Islands are not part of the United Kingdom. They are Crown Dependencies. Ptilinopus (talk) 15:07, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

It will be ambiguous when the time comes, for instance, a new unknown strain of coronavirus with an outbreak emerges and will therefore be called a novel coronavirus (nCoV). I could for instance get a common cold caused by a strain of coronavirus that is not SARS-CoV-2 but still a coronavirus nevertheless. You see the problem here is what if I caught a cold from a coronavirus and people will mistake of me having COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2 when a caught for example HCoV-HKU1 virus instead. Then they will quarantine me just because I have "coronavirus" even though it's not the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic virus/COVID-19 virus that hit me? That's why it is better of calling the pandemic with it's rightful name the SARS-CoV-2 rather than just simply coronavirus to avoid mistaking it from other coronaviruses that exists like SARS-CoV, MERS-CoV, HCoV-HKU1 and others. Hushskyliner (talk) 16:32, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Why does main page photos doesn't have any photo of Wuhan?

I noticed photo in infotab doesn't have any wuhan photo. 168.211.42.33 (talk) 10:53, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

will look--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 16:37, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

because the pangolin was brought from asia deserts, so no, this is a worldwide problem.

in the article introduction, the term --public health-- should be wikified, should it not?

i would do it, but the article is locked. --Johnfreez (talk) 12:56, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

the page/article is semi protected[1] not locked--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 16:43, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Venezuela

Venezuela confirms its two cases of coronavirus. [2] --cyrfaw (talk) 17:17, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

 Already done --cyrfaw (talk) 17:21, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Impacts on health subsection?

In the Societal impacts section, shouldn't there be a subsection on Impacts on health? This would be for indirect effects such as crowding out patients with other pathologies from hospitals. There are also positive impacts such as saving people from air pollution. (In China this is estimated to save many more people than die from the coronavirus.) Sylvain Ribault (talk) 19:52, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

References

Estimate on New Scientist is "poor source"?

My recent edit included an estimate of the overall fatality rate was essentially reverted. The sources was an article on New Scientist. To my knowledge, New Scientist passes both WP:RS and WP:MEDRS. A search on WP:RSN shows that New Scientist is a reliable source, but I'll be starting a new discussion there to clarify whether it's WP:MEDRS. My position is that any article in New Scientist which features expert opinion and summarizes research findings does indeed qualify as WP:MEDRS. Global Cerebral Ischemia (talk) 19:25, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

please see MEDRS...….1)reviews (PubMed indexed no older than 5 years),2) organizations such as NIH, CDC,WHO, NHS or 3) medical textbooks--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 22:06, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 March 2020

It could be interesting to add 2 external links to mathematical modelling of epidemic evolution at this page [3]. I propose the following links:

"It’s not exponential: An economist’s view of the epidemiological curve "

"A simple mathematical model for a better understanding of the new coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak"

This last link provide also source code for the modelling. Amaya13 (talk) 20:12, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

DocJames What do you think? Mgasparin (talk) 07:36, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

@Doc James: fixing ping DannyS712 (talk) 18:58, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Links would be better on a subpage maybe? Yes only the beginning is exponential. Nothing is exponential forever. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 02:21, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

cases/numbers

Lithuania

In lithuania 6 people are now infected. Lukeris14 (talk) 17:53, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Pandemic in lithuania

6 infected in total in lithuania Lukeris14 (talk) 13:23, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

México

Mexico have 18 Cases, no 12 Rodrigo Bruno Ruiz Serrano (talk) 18:44, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

It has 26 now, confirmed by the Health Department. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2806:2F0:9003:315E:7589:4B37:FAFB:2C9D (talk) 02:30, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Brazil

Brazil have 185 Cases, not 121.

Move to "Coronavirus pandemic"

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

2019–20 coronavirus pandemic → Coronavirus pandemic There is only one known coronavirus-caused pandemic in human history, and an overly specific title seems unnecessary. In a discussion above several people seemed to express in passing that "Coronavirus pandemic" would be a perfectly good name for this article. The span of years "2019–20" in the title seems superfluous, and on top of that slightly complicating: Covid became a pandemic in 2020, and who knows when it will end?

I therefore propose that the span of years be removed from the title and the page moved to "Coronavirus pandemic". —St.nerol (talk) 14:55, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

weakly support but also think COVID-19 pandemic is more WP:PRECISE --Almaty (talk) 15:54, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose Far too many unnecessary proposals to move, just leave it for now, wait and see what happens next. We cannot know if there will be any more coronavirus pandemics, any claim that this will be the only one must be false. If you move it now, then it will need to be moved again when another pandemic occurs. Hzh (talk) 18:10, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
• support There is only one known coronavirus-caused pandemic in human history--Sunfyre (talk) 19:25, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose The 2003 SARS outbreak could have become a pandemic if not contained. There is no telling in the future. CoronavirusPlagueDoctor (talk) 22:50, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
• Comment Shall we judge what is the most suitable name as things are, or what would possibly be a more suitable name in a hypothetical future? Any page whatsoever might need to be moved in 50 years, because new things are coming! But in the forseeable future, this will be the coronavirus pandemic, will it not? -St.nerol (talk) 23:40, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose a simplistic proposal which ignores the nuance of time. --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 23:48, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 03:19, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose and rescind previous weak support per User:Doc James --Almaty (talk) 08:11, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose because the pandemic will most likely be controlled by 2020. Sure, it might return, but not as a pandemic. CoronavirusPlagueDoctor (talk) 12:14, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
• oppose --Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 12:53, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Oppose - per this guideline: Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(events)#Health_incidents_and_outbreaks, we should have the year added. Interstellarity (talk) 13:04, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose as I think Coronavirus pandemic is quite vague for an article name. Yes, it's the only coronavirus pandemic, but the current name tells you a bit more info on what the article is about. Is 'Coronavirus pandemic' an article about coronavirus pandemics in general, or just the current one? 2019-20 Coronavirus pandemic tells you the article is about a coronavirus pandemic that occurred in 2019-20. Much better IMO. GoodCrossing (talk) 13:25, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose per GoodCrossing. KingSkyLord (talk | contribs) 13:31, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose and speedy close —hueman1 (talk • contributions) 13:40, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
• Snow Oppose 24.138.186.41 (talk) 13:47, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose Coronaviruses are endemic among humans in much of the world, especially the temperate regions, and keep evolving in order to bypass our immune responses. There is a risk of confusion between the 2019-20 SARS-CoV-2 pandemic, informally and commonly known as the "coronavirus pandemic", and the world-wide (pan-) endemic presence of coronaviruses. It's also quite possible that other coronavirus pandemics will occur in the future. SARS-CoV-1 was, and MERS is, sufficiently limited to not qualify as a pandemic, but assuming there'll be no future pandemics is as unrealistic as governments' assumptions that "progress and economic growth will solve everything", which left them unprepared for this pandemic and for the climate emergency. Boud (talk) 14:23, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 14 March 2020

Change total cases in the UK from 802 TO 1140 160.5.77.30 (talk) 15:18, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

 Done - MrX 🖋 18:28, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 March 2020

@Surtsicna: In order to grammatically correct for the lede, Please change the lede of the article from:

• The ongoing pandemic of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) is caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2). Originating in Wuhan in Hubei, China (in early December 2019),

to

• Since December 2019, there were an ongoing pandemic of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) that is caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), which originated from Wuhan in Hubei, China 36.77.92.39 (talk) 15:59, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Your suggestion is not grammatically correct. Surtsicna (talk) 16:23, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

I don't see this proposal as an improvement, but the current sentences do have room for improvement. - MrX 🖋 16:26, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

There was an edit that I supported and thanked that reflected WP:BOLDAVOID and WP:REDUNDANCY very well --Almaty (talk) 01:16, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 March 2020

Add Lithuania 6 Covid-19 patients Wikilord1234567890 (talk) 18:40, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

 Not done - Lithuania has 8 cases. - MrX 🖋 18:48, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 March 2020

- Liana voinea (talk) 19:29, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Melmann 19:30, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 March 2020

According to https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/, USA has 2,499 cases and 55 deaths. CoronavirusPlagueDoctor (talk) 21:24, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

 Already done The data has been updated since then. Interstellarity (talk) 19:00, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Need help

I am currently updating the pages on specific countries to show it is now a pandemic. I am updating the short descriptions, the current event tags, the infobox headers, and the first paragraphs of those articles. That is a lot of work for me to do so I am asking someone to update those pages as well. Interstellarity (talk) 19:43, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

@Interstellarity: Can you provide a list of articles that need this improvement? --Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝) 00:34, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

@Tenryuu: I have been improving articles listed at Template:2019–20 coronavirus pandemic. I left off at 2020 coronavirus pandemic in Jordan so you can start updating the articles as well. Interstellarity (talk) 00:51, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Interstellarity, please fill out the tables below for pages that have already been completed in this respect. I'll start checking myself. Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝) 02:00, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

In the interest of making sure we've gone through all the pages, I'll be constructing some tables below, just so that we know what pages have had their:

• short descriptions
• current event tags
• infobox headers
• lead sections

edited to state that this is now a pandemic. Tables are collapsed to reduce section size upon opening this page. Please leave a  Done under the "Done" column when that article is checked to have mentions of "pandemic" in all the items listed above.

Has Airliners & Ships' Pages all gonne updated ?

I'm only going with what's on the template under "Locations", so "International conveyances" have considered most (if not all) of the cruise ships that have been affected. --Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝) 12:26, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Africa

Location	Done
Algeria	Done
Burkina Faso	Done
Cameroon	Done
Democratic Republic of the Congo	Done
Egypt	Done
Ethiopia	Done
Gabon	Done
Ghana	Done
Guinea	Done
Ivory Coast	Done
Kenya	Done
Morocco	Done
Nigeria	Done
Senegal	Done
South Africa	Done
Sudan	Done
Togo	Done
Tunisia	Done

Please check the Hubei, Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market, and Kerala as done in the parentheses provided respectively.

Asia

Location	Done
Mainland China (Hubei) (Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market)	Done (Hubei:  Done) (Huanan:  Done)
Afghanistan	Done
Armenia	Done
Azerbaijan	Done
Bahrain	Done
Bangladesh	Done
Bhutan	Done
Brunei	Done
Cambodia	Done
Cyprus	Done
Georgia	Done
Hong Kong	Done
India (Kerala)	Done (Kerala: Done)
Indonesia	Done
Iran	Done
Iraq	Done
Israel	Done
Jordan	Done
Japan	Done
Kazakhstan	Done
Kuwait	Done
Lebanon	Done
Macau	Done
Malaysia	Done
Maldives	Done
Mongolia	Done
Nepal	Done
North Korea	Done
Oman	Done
Palestine	Done
Pakistan	Done
Phillipines	Done
Qatar	Done
Saudi Arabia	Done
Singapore	Done
South Korea	Done
Sri Lanka	Done
Taiwan	Done
Thailand	Done
Turkey	Done
United Arab Emirates	Done
Vietnam	Done

Please check the Croatian Timeline as done in the parentheses provided in the "Done" column when completed.

Europe

Location	Done
Albania	Done
Andorra	Done
Austria	Done
Belarus	Done
Belgium	Done
Bosnia and Herzegovina	Done
Bulgaria	Done
Croatia (timeline)	Done (timeline):  Done
Czech Republic	Done
Denmark	Done
Estonia	Done
Finland	Done
France	Done
Germany	Done
Greece	Done
Hungary	Done
Iceland	Done
Ireland	Done
Italy	Done
Kosovo	Done
Latvia	Done
Liechtenstein	Done
Lithuania	Done
Luxembourg	Done
Malta	Done
Moldova	Done
Monaco	Done
Netherlands	Done
North Macedonia	Done
Norway	Done
Poland	Done
Portugal	Done
Romania	Done
Russia	Done
San Marino	Done
Serbia	Done
Slovakia	Done
Slovenia	Done
Spain	Done
Sweden	Done
Switzerland	Done
Ukraine	Done
United Kingdom	Done
Vatican City	Done

North America

Location	Done
Antigua and Barbuda	Done
Aruba	Done
Canada	Done
Costa Rica	Done
Cuba	Done
Curaçao	Done
Dominican Republic	Done
Guatemala	Done
Honduras	Done
Jamaica	Done
Mexico	Done
Panama	Done
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines	Done
Trinidad and Tobago	Done
United States	Done
California	Done
Colorado	Done
Florida	Done
Georgia	Done
Illinois	Done
Louisiana	Done
Maryland	Done
Massachusetts	Done
New Jersey	Done
New York	Done
Oregon	Done
Puerto Rico	Done
Texas	Done
Virginia	Done
Washington	Done
Washington D.C.	Done

Oceania

Location	Done
Australia	Done
New Zealand	Done

South America

Location	Done
Argentina	Done
Brazil	Done
Bolivia	Done
Chile	Done
Colombia	Done
Ecuador	Done
Guyana	Done
Paraguay	Done
Peru	Done
Suriname	Done
Uruguay	Done
Venezuela	Done

International conveyances

Location	Done
Cruise ships	Done
Diamond Princess	Done
Grand Princess	Done
MS River Anuket	Done
MS Westerdam	Done
World Dream	Done

Pandemic is the name for the world wide phenomenon, but within one place it is an epidemic. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 03:19, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

@Tenryuu and Graeme Bartlett: I have now updated all articles to indicate this is now a pandemic. Interstellarity (talk) 11:52, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

@Interstellarity: Thanks for doing that. Unfortunately I was only able to check one or two pages to correct prior to the fact. --Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝) 12:26, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

@Graeme Bartlett: You are correct, but I think it reads better as what the pandemic is like in each country and it'd throw a few people off if location-specific articles read as "epidemic" instead. --Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝) 12:26, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

numbers of people hospitalised?

are any countries providing statistics of the numbers of cases hospitalised and could it be included in the table if yes? I know that those figures are analysed in England & Wales for influenza for example, have to admit I haven't seen them for covid-19. Petunia15 (talk) 00:24, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

thank you for suggestion--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 22:13, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Done Almaty (talk) 16:35, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Rename article to "2019-2020 COVID-19 pandemic"

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: WP:SNOW close. Consensus is clearly against this proposal. (non-admin closure) - MrX 🖋 14:46, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

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2019–20 coronavirus pandemic → 2019-2020 COVID-19 pandemic – By now the WHO has given the disease the official name of "COVID-19," so why are we still using the informal "coronavirus" name? A coronavirus can mean anything from SARS to the common cold, and by now most of the general public has heard of the name COVID-19 so there is low risk for confusion. King Zowie (talk) 23:25, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

it was just moved to 'Pandemic', lets leave it as is for a while...IMO--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 00:57, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

As I remarked above, the pandemic only occurred in 2020, so that's another issue to address. All the best: Rich Farmbrough (the apparently calm and reasonable) 09:37, 12 March 2020 (UTC).

The problem with renaming it to 2019-20 COVID-19 pandemic is the redundancy of the title itself which is 2019-20 Coronavirus disease 2019 pandemic which mentions the year 2019 twice, while using the name of the virus itself, Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2, solves the problem which is better since other wiki articles for outbreaks such as 2012 Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus outbreak, Western African Ebola virus epidemic, and 2015–16 Zika virus epidemic uses the name of the virus, and it would be better of calling this pandemic outbreak as 2019-20 Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 pandemic in case a SARS-CoV-2 outbreak emerges in the future one day or if a new strain/species of coronavirus that is not of SARS emerges which is why as early as now we must rename the outbreak 2019-20 Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 pandemic despite not being a Wiki common name because it doesn't seem to apply here. Hushskyliner (talk) 11:57, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Wanted to voice my opinion that I believe it's ok that the name of the pandemic should contain "2019-2020" since although the pandemic became real and prevalent in 2020 it did have its origins in 2019.

As to the name of the pandemic, I agree that the proposed name 2019-20 Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 pandemic is too long and not in common usage so people can navigate to this page and be educated about it and the pandemic. I feel the current name is fine but if we wanted to improve it, I believe that 2019-20 SARS-CoV-2 disease pandemic is a good compromise and accomplishes all that everyone wants. Cheers Jccali1214 (talk) 15:08, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

"Coronavirus pandemic" is perfectly fine imo. There isn't any ambiguity as to what coronavirus it refers to given that there are no other coronavirus pandemics going on. "SARS-CoV-2 disease" is unwieldy and potentially misleading, though, given that the virus is called that rather than the disease, and I would recommend "COVID-19" if people want to rename it. —Nizolan ^{(talk · c.)} 15:37, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Oppose because "coronavirus pandemic" is clearly the WP:COMMONNAME. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:43, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Oppose There is only one coronavirus pandemic at the moment. We can explore renaming again when this blows over or when there is a need to further distinguish with another yet unknown coronavirus pandemic in the same time period (heaven forbids, but the future is uncertain!). robertsky (talk) 16:21, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

weakly oppose cos I think that "coronavirus outbreak" is sufficient because this will probably become endemic. Which is actually "worse" depending on how you look at it, but the big panic word is gone. But id weakly support just "coronavirus pandemic" --Almaty (talk) 23:32, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose per other editors, there is only one week after renaming you request move this again, for me Wikipedia is not news. 180.241.205.23 (talk) 12:48, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose Article titles generally avoid using acronyms WP:ACRONYMTITLE (COVID-19 is an acronym), and coronavirus is also the commonly-used word and widely understood. Hzh (talk) 12:54, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Oppose - None of the articles on pandemics and outbreaks use abbreviations. Interstellarity (talk) 13:27, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

I'm opposed to the unwieldiness of having "2019-2020" in the page name, and also weakly opposed to using the technical acronym COVID-19 instead of the more common parlance of coronavirus. It's important that people can easily find their way here! —St.nerol (talk) 13:13, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose this is not the first time a coronavirus caused havoc, there was SARS and MERS. TheGreatSG'rean (talk) 13:20, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Rename Article to "Wuhan Chinese Coronavirus Pandemic"

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: WP:SNOW close. This has no chance of achieving consensus. (non-admin closure) - MrX 🖋 14:43, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

---

2019–20 coronavirus pandemic → Wuhan Chinese Coronavirus Pandemic – Time to call this the correct name for it (Wuhan Chinese Coronavirus Pandemic). Same as "Spanish Flu", "Hong Kong Flu", "Mid East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS)", and "West Nile Virus" are all appropriate names for viruses and the geographic locations in which they first came from. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:A845:CD00:B463:53BF:2DA4:FFDD (talk) 07:22, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

No Ghits for this name, so this won't be happening. It's probably not even worth a redirect. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 10:14, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Kevin McCarthy, is that you? [4] – Muboshgu (talk) 15:44, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

@Graeme Bartlett: of course the statistics that is announced by Iran's ministry of health isn't reliable at all. Iran's government has had many false reports and wrongdoings in history and you can search for them in the internet. But we should always rely on the formal statistics. Aminabzz (talk) 11:32, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

I don't agree. The proposed title may only lead to xenophobia, racism and discrimination. The real reason why World Health Organization (WHO) named it Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) instead of specific names (like the one you proposed) is that it is to prevent unnecessary fear among race, species, country, area, or location (which is xenophobia) for some populations, or even worse, racism and discrimination. We don't want this to happen. So I'm sorry, I don't agree on the proposed title. Stay safe! John Dowell Blakeslee (talk) 13:59, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:SNOW CoronavirusPlagueDoctor (talk) 14:29, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Speedy close and strongest possible oppose: this has been discussed far too many times, and the current name is a community consensus based on Wikipedia's naming policies. Also note that a pandemic exists across the world and is not limited to a small geographic area (e.g. Wuhan) - hence, the requested title seems inappropriate. -- JavaHurricane 14:30, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Speedy close and strongest possible oppose: this has been discussed far too many times, and the current name is a community consensus based on Wikipedia's naming policies. Also note that a pandemic exists across the world and is not limited to a small geographic area (e.g. Wuhan) - hence, the requested title seems inappropriate. -- JavaHurricane 14:30, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

cases/numbers

Austria

This official website is updated quite frequently by the government:

https://www.sozialministerium.at/Informationen-zum-Coronavirus/Neuartiges-Coronavirus-%282019-nCov%29.html

The current number is 655. Wikipedia lists 601 or something like that right now. I did not want to update the main article, as I was not sure whether the reporting was done automatic or manual, but as can be seen the number is, right now, higher than what wikipedia lists. 2A02:8388:1641:8380:3AD5:47FF:FE18:CC7F (talk) 15:03, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Brazil

Brazil has 185 confirmed cases, not 151. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2804:14C:FC80:A57B:D039:DD4:80BE:E5FC (talk) 06:29, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Uruguay missing

There are four confirmed cases there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.103.149.151 (talk) 20:05, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

UK death number

According to the UK gov website, only two patients have died from the virus. Not included in their data is the death of one British citizen on board the Diamond Princess cruise ship. Could the number be corrected accordingly? Chasidish Gen (talk) 12:13, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

No your wrong 4 people have died in Britain but I will check that if anyone from Britain died on the Diamond Princess. Hi poland (talk) 19:59, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

Number of Canadian cases seems to be incorrect.

There seems to be an error with the source. It says 133 total cases but that's not supported by any other reporting. When you add up the cases by province you only get 66 total cases. 199.119.233.134 (talk) 12:20, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

A bug report has been opened regarding this problem on the John Hopkins CCSE github project page: https://github.com/CSSEGISandData/COVID-19/issues/336 - The total number of cases appear to be totalled twice due to a recent formatting change.

The Canadian cases are using a source which is outdated, saskatchewan has 2 confirmed, and the source cited doesn’t say saskatchewan has any. Canadian source and numbers needs re evaluation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.64.10.111 (talk) 01:33, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Do we need to say "pandemic" 61 times on the page

I think its a little over the top. --Almaty (talk) 01:47, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Can we remove the "current pandemic" tag and just call it a current event please? --Almaty (talk) 08:27, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Why? It is a pandemic. - MrX 🖋 12:16, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

It is but I still don't understand why we need to say for instance "the pandemic is a pandemic" its very redundant, and although we say New York State is a state, this is different particularly because the WHO has in detail, repeatedly and specifically denied the importance of that word. --Almaty (talk) 12:25, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Overseas & Dependent Territories - Confusion

Once again, I am very confused in regards to how Overseas & Dependent Territories are selected to be listed/not listed.

Aruba and Curacao are both listed in the table, but they are Overseas Territories of Netherlands.

St. Martin, St. Barthelamy (St. Barts), Guadeloupe, French Guiana, Martinique are overseas territories of France but are not listed in the table, yet all have confirmed cases.

The U.S. Virgin Islands also has a confirmed case as of today and it is an overseas territory of the U.S. ... as is Puerto Rico. Should either of them be listed? Once cases begin to show up in Puerto Rico, it would seem rather odd that it wouldn't be listed separately from the U.S. What about Guam?

Can you please let me know what should and should not be listed in the table and what the qualifiers are ... if any?

Liane-Windsor (talk) 02:32, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

I would agree that in the interests of accuracy from a geographical spread (not political) standpoint, far flung territories should have separate listing. It does nothing for our knowledge of the spread of the virus to have remote locations lumped under a location in Europe. That said, Aruba and Curaçao are not overseas territories of the Netherlands. They are separate countries within the kingdom, on a par with the Netherlands itself. So is Sint Maarten, the Dutch half of that island. On the other hand, Bonaire, Saba and Sint Eustatius are now integral parts of the Netherlands (and now called the Caribbean Netherlands). This is different from the status of the above-mentioned French territories, most of which are now Départements of France proper. The various statuses are complicated. E.g. Guam and Puerto Rico do not have the same status with respect to the U.S. It would be best, I think, to list all such remote territories or components of a European or American country separately, to accurately represent where the virus actually is. Ptilinopus (talk) 04:06, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Thank you ever so much for the clarification. I totally agree. Much appreciated!

142.114.16.36 (talk) 07:59, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

I don't like the SCMP source of nameless government documents

This needs to be changed to WP:MEDRS, if people want to include that cases seem to have been traced to mid November. --Almaty (talk) 02:40, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Comment: I have removed the November claim from the lead and moved the ^{[under discussion]} tag to #History — Goszei (talk) 04:52, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Cool, thanks and I think we did well working together sorting that out for now. Of note I do trust that the information will probably turn out to be true, but it doesn't matter what's true, only what's verifiable --Almaty (talk) 08:17, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 March 2020

Notable person infected: Nestor Forster (Brazil's ambassador to the U.S.) (Source) CoronavirusPlagueDoctor (talk) 04:05, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

@CoronavirusPlagueDoctor: I added him to List of people with coronavirus disease 2019 with all the other politicians with this edit. Would that work? Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 09:05, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Inconsistency in number of USA cases

Two Wikipedia pages consistently disagree with respect to USA Case Count.
This occurs even though the Summary page references USA case count page.
Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Morebits Morebits (talk) 16:40, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 March 2020

Update the number of infected in Denmark to 827. Dreadtrout (talk) 10:34, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

 Already done - Someone has already updated it, including the Faroe Islands deaths. - MrX 🖋 11:53, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Various Small Nations & Territories to Add to table

Please add the following countries and territories to the table.

U.S. VIRGIN ISLANDS - 1 case of COVID-19 as of March 13. See:

FRENCH French Guiana Martinique St. Martin St. Barthelemy (St. Barts) French Polynesia See:

CAYMAN ISLANDS See:

ARUBA See:

CURACAO See:

There are others ... but I have to get to work. Will try to add more tomorrow if I can find the time.

Liane-Windsor (talk) 09:09, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

References

Jersey?

Why has Jersey disappeared from the table? This keeps happening over and over again. Cayman Islands was also on the list, then it wasn't.

Jersey has at least 2 cases confirmed according to their government.

See:

Liane-Windsor (talk) 09:52, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

References

Main page no longer has infected total in the "heading section".

besides this,i think recoveries shouldn't even be in the section, its ultimately misleading, as people assume that because recoveries are consistently rising that the virus has been "blown out of proportion" when it hasn't at all, nearly 100%(99.98) of people infected with seasonal flu recover(albeit yes with medical aid), though the rest did not....ie they died. for comparison, only about a thousand people die(at most it seems) for every 1 million infected with seasonal flu(Going by USA Statistics) , with the Novel Coronavirus, 30 Thousand die(At least it seems) So, to summarize i think the infection amount should go back, and the recoveries should go away, it makes people compare them and use them for reference when they generally should not be, it's not a useful statistic when the only application it has is to downplay the significance of Covid-19. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yummycheetos (talk • contribs) 10:19, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Strongly support removing recoveries from the table because they're inconsistently reported and confusing. --Almaty (talk) 10:23, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Preliminary reports of a monoclonal antibody against nCov-SARS-2

There are preliminary reports of a monoclonal antibody that may be effective against nCov-SARS-2. See this, and this news report (in Dutch) and the pre-print at https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.11.987958v1 (archived at [5])

It's a long way from being a treatment, as it hasn't even started on clinical trials, but it's encouraging research. -- The Anome (talk) 10:51, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Map

@Ratherous: The infobox map should be replaced with File:COVID-19 outbreak global case count map scripted.svg. It is generated hence less prone to errors. It also complies with mapping conventions. Ythlev (talk) 19:54, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

My only concerns are the colour scheme, it feels kinda odd to see everything in the shade of orange, don't get me wrong. The colour scheme has been discussed before, participated by several editors, so a sudden change won't be widely acceptable. And the second and last concern of mine is the file, why do we need to use multiple files for a single purpose map? These are just my opinions by the way. —hueman1 (talk • contributions) 20:03, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

That can be changed easily. Apparently there is no opinion on the maps at all. Ythlev (talk) 06:17, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

@Almaty and HueMan1: You keep reverting the maps but don't mention what exactly needs to be discussed. Ythlev (talk) 08:34, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Thats cos there's two discussions on the maps --Almaty (talk) 08:37, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

I don't think we should include any death calculations or per capita calculations as while these may seem simple, they are not obvious or correct in their interpretation. The reason for this is that there is a massive lag in this outbreak especially, and due to unreliability of reported figures (undue comparison will be made against disparate health care systems). Both will lead people to me more alarmed or reassured than they should be. In terms of policy this violates WP:CALC specifically. --Almaty (talk) 08:40, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

The current map is already in very wide use all over different Wikipedia websites, and I am inclined to believe that the map should be open to visual editors as there are more users who are able to edit such maps through those tools. --Ratherous (talk) 09:31, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Other language websites do not bear any precedence over English wikipedia consensus. --Almaty (talk) 09:34, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Still, it's best to keep maps relating to this topic consistent on all platforms, especially considering how fast-moving the situation is. --Ratherous (talk) 09:42, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

But it can be edited manually. Ythlev (talk) 10:04, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

In my experience that can sometimes mess up the coding. Either way there really isn’t much reason to change to current map as it is already in wide use and has more standard visual presentations such as borders and consistent coastlines. --Ratherous (talk) 12:37, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Please continue this discussion in the already ongoing related discussion above regarding a deaths per-capita map.Monopoly31121993(2) (talk) 09:43, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Brasil : 162 cases 1 Cured

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Brazil#Statistics — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.108.149.192 (talk) 09:59, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Indeed there is discrepancies what federal government officially want to admit and what secretary government has detected. You know how disorganised is Brazil, but 107 cases is less than the plausible amount of 162. Wikipedia in order hand says 173. This is the reference

what the guy says below is already old. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.108.149.192 (talk) 12:45, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Should we move the pandemic data table upwards in the article?

I understand that it falls under the subheading "epidemiology" but the table is leaving a huge, empty space at the bottom of that section because of it. What do you guys think? Nahnah4 (talk | contribs) 06:12, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

it is fine for now in its current place, due to how the article is structured, thank you--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 12:25, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

It's still creating a huge, empty space. The table is very big. Are there other ways of handling this? Bondegezou (talk) 10:07, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

This depends on the browser used. Safari for me had a huge empty space, which is one of the reasons why I removed the animated gif. It doesn't now, but chrome does. Bit of an issue. --Almaty (talk) 12:51, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

The first case of Covid-19

The first case of Covid-19 was first seen in Wuhan China on December 8, 2019 this section starts with saying the virus was first detected in November with a questionable source that is not accurate.

According to epidemiological surveys by national, provincial and municipal experts, the incidence of unexplained viral pneumonia in Wuhan this time was between December 8, 2019 and January 2, 2020. Since January 3, 2020, clinical and epidemiological investigations have revealed no patients with new infections. Background Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) is a disease caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), first detected in China in December, 2019. In January, 2020, state, local, and federal public health agencies investigated the first case of COVID-19 in Illinois, USA. Hardrocker11969 (talk) 12:21, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

The South China Morning Post supports the first case being in November. [6] I think we should avoid the Wuhan government as a source, unless corroborated a by a reliable secondary source. I would trust the Lancet over the SCMP or any government source. - MrX 🖋 12:39, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

The December 8 date was already outdated many weeks ago. Another date, December 1, 2020, was given in January 2020 in another report,[7]. The 17 November date is the latest one given. Hzh (talk) 14:18, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

References

The Lancet article is recent (yesterday). The Science Mag article is outdated. - MrX 🖋 14:24, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

The Lancet article from March 13, 2020 didn't give an exact date, just December 2019. I've changed it to one that gives the exact date of December 1st. We can wait for a better source that gives the November date before adding that. Hzh (talk) 14:31, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Inconsistency in number of Germany cases shown here and RKI

Numbers are completely off from official RKI stats? Is there a reason why the numbers of worldometer (which do not even provide a source) are more credible? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.216.206.21 (talk) 20:37, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

There seem to be inconsistencies even in the offical RKI data (no increase in NRW for 3 days???). But that shouldn't be a reason to use unofficial numbers such as worldometer or even some funky local newspapers. None of them give proper reference to their primary source of information - it's a huge mess. The issue was discussed a bit earlier - proposition is on the table to limit statistics strictly to official ressources and to restrict edit access to the statistics table to admins only - sounds good to me. Semiliki (talk) 17:28, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Raise the Philippines cases to 98, because recently, the news said. WIBWBP (talk) 10:38, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Isn't official ministry sources are not enough? Why are admins are using and mentioning Times of India source? Kalpesh Manna 2002 (talk) 15:22, 14 March 2020 (UTC) Kalpesh Manna]]

Strongly support stopping using worldometer. If people want to update, I trust an even easier website to navigate, called Our World in Data, I've placed a RfC, as I trust this website, no one can point to an error on it, ever, and it is all CC-BY-SA 4.0 - gold mine. --Almaty (talk) 16:52, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

What is the criteria for inclusion on this page for a country on domestic responses

I propose as a simple method for now 1000 cases reported. --Almaty (talk) 10:17, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

seems like a good idea--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 17:47, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Honorifics

@PRRfan: I've read in multiple places that Mr. Trump's supporters feel disrespected, including saying "Trump did X" instead of "The Trump administration did ..." or "Mr. Trump did ..." or "President Trump did ...". Abhijit Banerjee; Esther Duflo (12 November 2019), Good Economics for Hard Times, PublicAffairs, Wikidata Q85764011 say that US President Obama gave a huge gift to US Senator from coal country Mitch McConnell by declaring a "war on coal" -- WITHOUT acknowledging the valuable contributions that coal mining families and their ancestors have made to the rest of the nation. Hilary effectively kicked them in the teeth with her "deplorables" comment: These are people with legitimate grievances against the system. They are being robbed of their dignity and are rebelling against that. They may misdiagnose their problems, and Mr. Trump and other leading Republican politicians may exploit that, and the mainstream media in the US may contribute to this exploitation through inadequate coverage of the range of responsible expert opinion on almost any issue.

However, I believe Banerjee and Duflo's comment about "robbing people of their dignity" accurately describes a substantive part of the dangerous divide in US politics (and probably in other countries as well). Therefore, I try to go out of my way to avoid unintended slights: By doing that, I believe I increase the chances that his followers will think about the available evidence and not get trapped in their perceptions of subtle insults. Ya catch mo' flies with honey than vinegar.

Comments? Thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia and to helping improve the access to information for the entirety of humanity. DavidMCEddy (talk) 14:42, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

I have seen such complaints in my Facebook feed, largely from friends who tend not to use "Mr." or "President" when discussing Trump's predecessor. So I hear you on honey & vinegar, but the best and fairest way is to treat all presidents (and other people) equally. I presume this is why Wikipedia style is to do just that. Wikipedia:Surname: "After the initial mention, a person should generally be referred to by surname only, without an honorific prefix such as 'Mr.', 'Mrs.', 'Ms.', 'Miss', 'Mx' (this includes academic or professional prefixes like 'Dr.', 'Prof.', 'Rev.', etc.), or may be referred to by a pronoun." (The guidance is in WP:NAMES, whose intro includes, "While this guideline focuses on biographies, its advice pertains, where applicable, to all articles that mention people.") Cheers. PRRfan (talk) 17:49, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 March 2020

According to https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/03/14/coronavirus-updates-trump-may-get-tested-house-passes-relief-bill/5032571002/, 16 states closed all schools as a result of the coronavirus epidemic. This statement can be added along with the current statement about the current cases and deaths in the United States. CoronavirusPlagueDoctor (talk) 21:37, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Standardization of USA Coronavirus cases

Each source is reporting a different count of USA coronavirus cases. This article (Archive/Ref) stated 2340 cases. Template:2019–20 coronavirus pandemic data (Archive/Ref) states 2499 cases. Template:2019–20 coronavirus pandemic data/United States medical cases chart (Ref) states 2512 cases. Finally, Template:2019–20 coronavirus pandemic data/United States medical cases (Ref) states 2526 cases. How do I know which source has the right data, since every source is reporting a different count? CoronavirusPlagueDoctor (talk) 22:00, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Some include the Grand Princess, some do not. Some include US territories, some do not. They don't all update at the same time either. This leads to many different numbers. As long as their difference is less than the daily increase in case count or below let's say 5% (whatever is larger) it doesn't matter much. --mfb (talk) 23:22, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected anti-vandalism request on 3 March 2020

• NOTE from author of plots: Boud and others. I spend an hour each day updating the semi-log plots. The Chinese data are easy. I only need to translate http://www.nhc.gov.cn/xcs/yqtb/list_gzbd.shtml And their errors are few. Even they sometimes correct the previous days numbers! The world data are a nightmare. My only way of matching daily BNO news counts (https://bnonews.com/index.php/2020/02/the-latest-coronavirus-cases/) is to track each country and check that the totals match the BNO numbers. BNO updates in real time - they don't give a daily total - and sometimes BNO correct numbers reported a day or two in the past. It's a nightmare! Trends in real time data comparing Hubei, rest-of-China and ROW matter. For example, they already show daily cases in ROW dominate those in China. They will soon show daily deaths in ROW dominate China. In late March they are likely to show TOTAL cases and deaths in ROW dominate China. The detailed country comparisons, which I have but don't plot, are useful to see the regional spread of disease. In the real world I am a biostatistician analysing coronavirus survival and recovery and offering advice about policy to save peoples lives - lots of people. I CANNOT afford the time to undo repeated vandalism of the semi-log plots. I'll repeat this in other parts of the discussion section so it's clear. This "hobby" takes time away from saving lives.Galerita (talk) 00:06, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

User:Galerita what is the ask here? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:26, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Doc James. The semi-log graphs have been edited out on two occasions and I have had to manually restore them. I'm not a proficient Wikipedia editor so restoring what I see as vandalism is is painstaking. Undo doesn't work because other changes have been made in the mean time. The semi-log plots are time consuming to prepare, well at least the data collection is, taking a bit over an hour a day. This is because the Rest-of-the-World data comes in piecemeal and has to be carefully checked and rechecked by country to identify discrepancies. So I'm asking that it not be so easy to edit out the work I have contributed. Is there some setting that forces a discussion before a single editor arbitrarily removes something.Galerita (talk) 11:13, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

User:Galerita there is no simple way. Will keep an eye on it. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:04, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

Doc James Thanks Galerita (talk) 01:35, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

User:Galerita once again thanks for the graphs. The beauty of wikipedia is that anyone, anywhere can question any content, ever. Editors often, and should be encouraged to follow WP:BRD. When they do that, it doesn't mean they're vandalising, at all. There are vandals, but many removing your graphs including myself previously, aren't, they just want the content to be questioned again. Rest assured many editors such as Doc James and myself will continue to ensure that appropriate graphs that follow the policies particularly around consensus are included - at the moment, the consensus is your graphs, which is great. --Almaty (talk) 05:19, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

 Question: Why has this message pinned. Can't the appropriate reason be linked in the protection log as a permalink? CoronavirusPlagueDoctor (talk _{about the coronavirus}/Contributions _{about the coronavirus}) 23:49, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Critic Section

Hello, I would like to say that it would be good to add a section of critics of this "pandemia". Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.39.214.62 (talk) 21:31, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

agree(it was moved to its own article)--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 13:00, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

North Korea's Domestic Response

The current section on North Korea is not only two lines, but it's completely based on speculation. While the speculation is most likely true, there is no confirmation of anything, and as the section is a tiny 667 bytes, there is no need to keep it seperate. I propose merging it with the section on other countries. CoronavirusPlagueDoctor (talk) 02:35, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

due to that country's lack of transparency its best left as is...IMO--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 12:57, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Discussion on Requested Moves

Way too many move requests are being made for this article, and most of them aren't following the requested move policies. It would be appreciated if someone could clean up all requested moves and tag them appropriately. CoronavirusPlagueDoctor (talk) 13:46, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

I will scan through the archives and add any unclosed proposed moves to the bottom. CoronavirusPlagueDoctor (talk) 19:17, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Table with Progress

 All done

Archive Data

Archive	Status	Items Moved/Resolved
Archive 1	Done	1
Archive 2	Done	0
Archive 3	Done	0
Archive 4	Done	0
Archive 5	Done	1
Archive 6	Done	0
Archive 7	Done	0
Archive 8	Done	0
Archive 9	Done	1
Archive 10	Done	0
Archive 11	Done	0
Archive 12	Done	1
Archive 13	Done	0
Archive 14	Done	0
Archive 15	Done	1
Archive 16	Done	0
Archive 17	Done	1
Archive 18	Done	0

2 dead in Denmark

Please can you put it. Florian Duboeuf (talk) 17:29, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

 Not done Please find a source then it will be updated — Preceding unsigned comment added by RealFakeKim (talk • contribs) 18:33, March 15, 2020 (UTC)

New cases in Italy

Italy reports 3,590 new cases and 368 new deaths, raising total to 24,747 cases and 1,809 dead

Source: https://twitter.com/bnodesk/status/1239237647031242752?s=21 — Preceding unsigned comment added by CoronavirusPlagueDoctor (talk • contribs) 17:24, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Already updated but not with your source. Please try and find something like a news artical or official report not twitter. — RealFakeKimT 17:32, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

@RealFakeKim: BNO News is a reliable website. They source all of their statements. CoronavirusPlagueDoctor (talk) 18:17, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

CoronavirusPlagueDoctor I can't find the source they use. — RealFakeKimT 18:22, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

@RealFakeKim: Their website (https://bnonews.com/index.php/2020/02/the-latest-coronavirus-cases/) contains the line

17:10: 3,590 new cases and 368 new deaths in Italy. (Source)

, and the Source is a link to a Twitter image (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETKoXpLWkAYO8mt?format=jpg&name=large), which I assume is an image posted by a Italian news agency or government official. A Google reverse image search gave me this link (filtered to past hour because results for previous days were popping up): http://www.nuvola.tv/coronavirus-368-i-morti-in-un-solo-giorno-2853-positivi-in-piu-crescono-anche-i-guariti/. CoronavirusPlagueDoctor (talk) 18:31, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Ok thanks for the informaion. — RealFakeKimT 18:33, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

3.5 million views

perWikipedia:Top_25_Report--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 14:52, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

We got up to about 1.1 million/day a few days ago with the pandemic title, now it's dropping a bit. Previously it was around 0.5 million/day, so 3.5 million/week is reasonable. Boud (talk) 15:33, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

cases/numbers

Change

In Lithuania there's 12 total confirmed cases now. Lukeris14 (talk) 13:24, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Lukeris14, please follow the {{edit semi-protected}} template and provide a source. Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝) 15:26, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

As of 15 March 2020, 140 total confirmed cases in Philippines

Philippines now has 140 confirmed cases according to Philippine media and other sources, but the table still shows 111 confirmed cases. I want to correct that — but it turns out editing is disabled. Can someone correct it? John Dowell Blakeslee (talk) 13:40, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

John Dowell Blakeslee, please use the {{edit semi-protected}} template (read the documentation first) and tell us exactly what you want changed and what to change it into. A source (or two) is also needed. Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝) 15:25, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

There may be heretofore unknown changes in the common name, and there’s enough attention and interest to allow move discussions to continue Almaty (talk) 04:57, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Kosovo

5 confirmed cases Kreshnik Prizreni (talk) 08:35, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

venezuela news

eight more cases confirmed sources:https://www.elnacional.com/venezuela/jorge-rodriguez-confirma-ocho-nuevos-casos-de-coronavirus-en-venezuela/ venezuela now have 10 cases. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.95.170.95 (talk) 03:20, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

7 more for venezuela sources:https://elpitazo.net/politica/maduro-venezuela-suma-17-casos-confirmados-por-coronavirus-este-15marz/

Rename proposal to include disease name

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Speedy close - There is a clear consensus against moving this page. Interstellarity (talk) 22:35, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

---

2019–20 coronavirus pandemic → 2019–20 coronavirus disease pandemic – While the old argument for 2019-20 Coronavirus disease 2019 outbreak is no longer applicable, it could still include the word disease in the title.

As I have stated before, an outbreak is of a disease, not a virus. In Wikipedia, the disease is now called Coronavirus disease 2019 after a recent move. Under the guidance of WP:Article Titles and the principle of consistency, we should be using that name in the title of this article. As that results in a cumbersome name, I will make 3 suggestions:

• 2019-20 Coronavirus disease 2019 outbreak is the obvious title. It is consistent with the disease page, but cumbersome.
• 2019-20 Coronavirus disease outbreak is a more minimal change. It is more readable but less precise.
• 2019-20 COVID-19 outbreak is my favorite. It is less verbose, easier to find, and concise. It suffers only from the consistency issue, as it uses the acronym for the disease instead of the fully spelled out name. As the acronym is as official as the disease name, and it's mentioned prominently in the disease page, I do not see a major issue here.

This page has never been named properly. Part of the reason is that the cause was known before the disease was named. Another issue is a lack of guidance on how to name an article on an outbreak in this case.

The reasons for this article having it's current name have become moot. I know that this will be a quick second move, but I really think that pieces for doing this move are now in place. EMS | Talk 23:51, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

• This page has never been named properly. I don’t know about that. On some level there’s no such thing as a “proper” name. It’s whatever the COMMONNAME is, determined to the best of our ability and within the consensus-finding process. I don’t think there is any problem with this title, given it’s at least properly descriptive when we don’t have an agreement on what a COMMONNAME might be: “2019–20 coronavirus outbreak” it’s an outbreak caused by a coronavirus (yes even if the disease is the outbreak, the virus itself is the cause of the disease) that occurred in 2019 and 2020. That’s fine. 199.66.69.88 (talk) 00:27, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Comment. I would like to cordially suggest to ALL parties interested in once again re-naming this highly-visible and increasingly popular article to please hit the pause button, take a deep breath, and wait at least one full week (uninterrupted from new re-naming attempts) and then go ahead and re-visit the issue. Thank you. History DMZ (talk) 01:54, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

• I agree, except I'd say a month's moratorium or more is warranted. Wikipedia is not a newspaper. WP:RECENTISM is a real problem with articles like these. What we have is fine. 199.66.69.88 (talk) 02:52, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
• For now, the current title seems to satisfy COMMONNAME. The situation is changing and can be reviewed in the future. 2019-20 COVID-19 outbreak may be appropriate at some point. I would oppose any change for now, in part because of the move fatigue mentioned. Bondegezou (talk) 14:57, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Additional Justification WP:NCMED says "The article title should be the scientific or recognised medical name that is most commonly used in recent, high-quality, English-language medical sources, rather than a lay term (unscientific or slang name) or a historical eponym that has been superseded." The current name for this article is a lay term as much concocted by the politics of Wikipedia itself as anything else, and the quoted guideline above makes the use of WP:COMMONNAME dubious. For this disease, the full scientific name put forward by WHO and Wikipedia article name is Coronavirus disease 2019 with an acronym of COVID-19. Furthermore, COVID-19 is now being regularly used in scientific sources like Nature magazine (see https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00154-w ) and lay sources like the Washington Post (see https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/coronavirus-china-live-updates/2020/02/21/81d2aa50-543e-11ea-b119-4faabac6674f_story.html ). Waiting a week before doing another formal RM I approve of. But part of my reason for wanting to do a discussion now is in part to set the stage for doing (or possibly no doing) said RM. EMS | Talk 17:40, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

• WP:NCMED says "The article title should be the scientific or recognised medical name that is most commonly used in recent, high-quality, English-language medical sources, rather than a lay term (unscientific or slang name) or a historical eponym that has been superseded." The current name for this article is a lay term as much concocted by the politics of Wikipedia itself as anything else, and the quoted guideline above makes the use of WP:COMMONNAME dubious. NCMED is a guideline, COMMONNAME is policy. Where they disagree COMMONNAME takes precedence. You’ve effectively torpedoed your own argument. 199.66.69.88 (talk) 18:33, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
  • See WP:MOSAT, which is also policy and allows for names other than the "common" ones. It even explicitly references medical names as an example. There also is WP:PRECISION. The coronavirus family includes many viruses including the usual influenza viruses. Achieving a precise but compact name leads to "2019-20 COVID-19 outbreak". At this time, my overall sense is to wait a bit, and see if COVID-19 usage becomes as common and recognizable as I suspect it soon will be. But even with "Wuhan" removed this article title is still stale and in need of change. EMS | Talk 17:14, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
• I think that the problem is how clumsy "2019-20 COVID-19 epidemic" looks, but maybe 2019-20 COVID epidmemic is possible? Tsukide (talk) 07:28, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
  • I would not do that. "COVID" as a acronym for "Coronavirus disease" is implied, but not official. It also is a novel moniker of this outbreak, making it unsuitable under WP:COMMONNAME. The lack of the "-19" also causes trouble with WP:PRECISION. EMS | Talk 17:14, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose "Coronavirus pandemic" is COMMONNAME. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:04, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
• Comment: Please use the en dash ("–"). --hueman1 (talk) 08:17, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Comment: I think that when/if this disease becomes a pandemic, this page should be re-titled to "2019-20 coronavirus pandemic", or perhaps even "2020 COVID-19 pandemic" to illustrate the future severity of this event. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.207.59.31 (talk) 02:25, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

• support for "COVID-19 outbreak", per WP:COMMONNAME. Although google trends shows us that people are searching for coronavirus outbreak, or coronavirus, both of these names are ambiguous. Compared the current name of the page, they are searching COVID-19 outbreak more. The technical name isn't COVID-19 outbreak, but it is more commonly searched for, used in reliable sources such as Singapore ministry fo health, and more WP:CONCISE. --Almaty (talk) 11:57, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

• Comment: This can also apply now, as 2019–20 COVID-19 pandemic, so I have relisted it on the main page. CoronavirusPlagueDoctor (talk) 20:14, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose all these move are disruptive. And also we use the common name where possible. "coronavirus pandemic" is very commonly used, more so than "coronavirus disease pandemic" or COVID-19 pandemic. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 20:56, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose Take a break. Frequent name change is disruptive. The last name change took us all a couple of hours to settle the moves of all related pages and templates. If you count in content updates, redirect updates, category updates as well, it took almost a full day to complete them all. 21:12, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose - We don't need the word "disease in the title. There is 0% chance that a reader will confuse this article with some non-disease related 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic. - MrX 🖋 21:27, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Rename article to ‘’2019-20 Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 pandemic’’

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Speedy close - There is a clear consensus against moving this page. Interstellarity (talk) 22:31, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

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2019–20 coronavirus pandemic → 2019-20 Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 pandemic – Why are we still using the broad term “coronavirus” when it refers to a family virus that causes a simple common cold to as severe as SARS, MERS, and the new COVID-19 when we can use the official taxonomic name of the virus Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 just like the wiki article for 2012 Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus outbreak. Hushskyliner (talk) 04:54, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Because that is the common name for this virus and if I am be honest that name would be way too long for the article. HawkAussie (talk) 05:09, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

WP:COMMONNAME would seem to apply. Shearonink (talk) 05:18, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

I would support a move to the official and simple name "2019-20 COVID-19 pandemic", but not something as linguistically gruesome as the one in the title here. HiLo48 (talk) 06:04, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

The problem with renaming it to 2019-20 COVID-19 pandemic is the redundancy of the title itself which is 2019-20 Coronavirus disease 2019 pandemic which mentions the year 2019 twice, while using the name of the virus itself, Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2, solves the problem which is better since other wiki articles for outbreaks such as 2012 Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus outbreak, Western African Ebola virus epidemic, and 2015–16 Zika virus epidemic uses the name of the virus, and it would be better of calling this pandemic outbreak as 2019-20 Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 pandemic in case a SARS-CoV-2 outbreak emerges in the future one day or if a new strain/species of coronavirus that is not of SARS emerges which is why as early as now we must rename the outbreak 2019-20 Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 pandemic despite not being a Wiki common name because it doesn't seem to apply here. Hushskyliner (talk) 11:48, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Pandemics apply to diseases, not viruses. WP:COMMONNAME and WP:RECOGNIZABILITY still strongly favor "coronavirus" over "COVID" by about a 7:1 ratio according to Google Trends and in general media usage. There are no other coronavirus pandemics so it's unambiguous. - Wikmoz (talk) 03:01, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Strong Oppose We don't need to rename the page 500 times a day --occono (talk) 20:38, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

@Occono: I bumped all requests that were in the archives that were viable to the main talk page. CoronavirusPlagueDoctor (talk) 20:44, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

• Strong oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. It may not technically be correct, but people are calling it "coronavirus". – Muboshgu (talk) 20:58, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
• Strong oppose all these move proposals are disruptive. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 21:01, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose Take a break. Frequent name change is disruptive. The last name change took us all a couple of hours to settle the moves of all related pages and templates. If you count in content updates, redirect updates, category updates as well, it took almost a full day to complete them all. 21:12, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose-I don't support renaming the article, as coronavirus is the common name and the term insofar as it refers to a family of viruses of which COVID-19 is a member is not technically incorrect even if a little broad. But if we are going to rename the article, let's at least have the title be comprehensible. Display name 99 (talk) 21:15, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:CONCISE. - MrX 🖋 21:20, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
• Strong oppose, Coronavirus, whether we like it or not, is the WP:COMMONNAME, switching it up to something more complicated would confuse readers. QueerFilmNerd^talk 21:24, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
• Strong oppose per WP:COMMONNAME --RaphaelQS (talk) 21:43, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME, as the title is very hard to read. CoronavirusPlagueDoctor (talk _{about the coronavirus}/Contributions _{about the coronavirus}) 22:17, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Table editing

Why am I unable to edit the table? In the pandemic by country section, when trying to source editing (not visual editing) on phone, the table isn't shown to edit; and in visual editing it is so hard on the phone. Aminabzz (talk) 11:06, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

that's a technical question--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 15:25, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Strongly support the WP:CURRENT TAG

as is, this is a current event. We say pandemic enough. --Almaty (talk)

It's already listed on WP:CURRENT. CoronavirusPlagueDoctor (talk) 12:32, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 March 2020

{{subst:trim|1=

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. -- LuK3 (Talk) 15:09, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Missing recoveries

Poland is missing its recoveries. Currently it says 0 but it should be 13. Hi poland (talk) 13:14, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

thank you for post--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 15:51, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

WikiProject COVID-19

A new WikiProject has been created WikiProject COVID-19 as a temporary or permanent WikiProject and invite editors to use this space for discussing ways to improve coverage of the ongoing 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic. Please bring your ideas to the project/talk page. Stay safe. Abishe (talk) 03:19, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 March 2020

South Korean CDC (central disease control center) supports masks. 3/13, Official general ordered to redirect material to be supplied to mask manufacturer factory to continue produce. 47.189.243.68 (talk) 03:53, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Source? Mentioning that one exists is not citing it.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  04:01, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

 Not done This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y". - MrX 🖋 11:46, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Update Sri Lanka

Sri Lanka - 18 confirmed cases , 0 deaths , 1 recovery so far

Please update — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anusara Isindu (talk • contribs) 02:47, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Sri Lanka : Confirmed Cases - 18 , Deaths - 0 , Recoveries -1 so far Please update Anusara Isindu (talk) 03:00, 16 March 2020 (UTC) @Anusara Isindu: The tally has been updated and thank you for notifynot it. Abishe (talk) 03:19, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

cases/numbers

Raise the Philippines cases to 98

The news said it this 6:27 PM Philippine Standard Time. WIBWBP (talk) 10:35, 14 March 2020 (UTC) =

New Australian Cases

Number of confirmed cases in Australia - 298 (according to government broadcaster ABC) JMonkey2006 (talk) 03:03, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Curaçao

Please add Curaçao [8] --Extended Cut (talk) 00:33, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Dispute that definition, I think The article quarantine has a reasonable discussion of what a quarantine may include, and it’s very harsh measures. Lockdowns can infer terrorism or the like and are broader Almaty (talk) 13:01, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

New Cases in Suriname, St.Lucia and Uruguay

There is one case in both Suriname and ST. Lucia

Suriname Case

St Lucia Case — Preceding unsigned comment added by MSWBB (talk • contribs) 23:00, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

There are 4 cases in Uruguay now

Uruguay cases

case by nation table too narrow

Can someone please widen that table with the 120 coutries in it to make the horizontal scrolling go away? Vertical scrolling I get, but horizontal should be unnecessary.... 70.27.169.176 (talk) 15:06, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

that is a technical issue--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 17:43, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 March 2020

Change Jordan from 12 to 17 Nasser anssari (talk) 15:13, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

 Already done The data has changed since then. Interstellarity (talk) 18:07, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 March 2020

The first death in Gulf occurred on 16 March 2020 in the Bahrain,[59] 89.211.241.204 (talk) 12:26, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

 Not done - You didn't provide a source and the information in the article is being updated with information from aggregating sources like https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/. - MrX 🖋 12:28, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 March 2020

Northshore, Meridian and Snohomish public school districts have closed, leaving 36,000 children out of school. These closures are happening from direct contact with the Corona Virus or as preventative care. Seattle Public School's are being closed for short amounts of time to engage a deep cleaning.

Bazzaz, D. (2020, March 10). Two Seattle public schools join throng of 115-plus Washington schools that have closed over coronavirus concerns. Retrieved March 15, 2020, from https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/education/two-seattle-public-schools-join-throng-of-115-plus-washington-schools-that-have-closed-over-coronavirus-concerns/ WednesdeyMoore (talk) 23:18, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

@WednesdeyMoore: Specific schools/school districts are not significant to be mentioned in the main article. Maybe you can add it to the education section for the coronavirus pandemic article in the state of Washington. CoronavirusPlagueDoctor (talk _{about the coronavirus}/Contributions _{about the coronavirus}) 23:24, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

This is happening all over the world. I don't think we need to highlight three specific school districts. - MrX 🖋 23:27, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Name of the virus - editing dispute

@User:Almaty, the officially endorsed name of the virus per the WHO: "For that reason and others, WHO has begun referring to the virus as “the virus responsible for COVID-19” or “the COVID-19 virus” when communicating with the public. Neither of these designations are intended as replacements for the official name of the virus as agreed by the ICTV." — Goszei (talk) 08:33, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

I very readily concede that the WHO doesn't have precedence over the name of the virus. However, I think that its a bit of common sense to recognize that most national governments, most health care systems, and even the WHO uses the more "natural" name as the virus name. --Almaty (talk) 08:39, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

And trust me, this has been debated ad infinitum amongst experts I know. Its boring, but we can do better than experts, we can use our policy of WP:COMMONNAME --Almaty (talk) 08:47, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Maybe in isolation the use of the term could be justified, but I find it a little ridiculous to construct a sentence that says "the COVID-19 outbreak is caused by the COVID-19 virus". It is akin to saying that "the swine flu outbreak was caused by the swine influenza virus". The statement is true, and the term "swine influenza virus" was used by the WHO and official health sources, but it is redundant and colloquial at best in comparison to the officail name "H1N1".

To address WP:COMMONNAME, the page prescribes using Google search result numbers: "covid-19 virus" returns 35.6 million results and "sars-cov-2" returns 77.6 million. Personally, this is first time I have seen the "COVID-19 virus" term, I think it should at least gain a mention on the main article for the virus before it is used here in the lead. Also, I don't think that "COVID-19 virus (SARS-CoV-2)" is an acceptable construction because it begs the question as to what the acronym stands for. — Goszei (talk) 08:58, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Good to think about. As always I attempt to pre-empt controversial discussions about this virus but please see the related move discussion. --Almaty (talk) 09:02, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Regarding a factual inaccuracy in first paragraph

I the first paragraph, statements from WHO are mentioned wrongly . This blog is ineditable so as to prevent vandilism but the authority incharge of this page should take note of that and don't spread wrong information . The statement written is "Simultaneously, the WHO stated that this is the first known pandemic that can be controlled" whereas WHO has nowheren said in there statements whereas what they meant was "And we have never before seen a pandemic that can be controlled, at the same time." If we look at that , there is a difference and thus leading to spread of wrong information. Therefore proper steps need to taken it should be changed as soon as possible Akshat Bhardwaj 2265 (talk) 09:44, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Do you imply that the WHO has not said that? --Almaty (talk) 09:45, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

I have used additional sourcing from the WHO and changed "can" to "could" for clarity --Almaty (talk) 09:48, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Cases per capita

In order to show the impact (or posible impact) of the virus on national levels, its important to add a list of how many cases are registered per capita in each country. This will give an excellent indication of how much pressure the health care systems are experiencing and may explain why some countries take certain measures before others. The pressure on the health care systems is by far the largest concern of this health crisis.

Example of how the list would order the countries at the moment: Countries with most registered cases per capita (total cases per 1 million):

• Italy (21.157) = 349.9
• Norway: (1077) = 198.7
• Switzerland (1375) = 158.9
• South Corea: (8086) = 157.7
• Iran: (12.729) = 151.5
• Denmark: (827) = 142.8
• Spain: (6315) = 135.1

Other coutnries:

• Germany:(4525) = 54
• France: (4469) = 68
• China: (80.824) = 56.2
• USA: (2499) = 7.5
• UK: (1140) = 16.8
• Chile (43) = 2.2

Source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

--Ednotis (discusión) 21:04 13 mar 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ednotis (talk • contribs)

• I agree, I think this would be helpful to have in the table. Paintspot Infez (talk) 03:25, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Sir , firstly thanks for paying attention to it , yes sir I imply that WHO has not yet said that ,also we must understand that rephrasing the statement from "can" to "could" just changes the person's point of view to read that whereas the overall intention of the statement is still the same . I would be thankfull to you if you send me the links of your additional sourcing from WHO Akshat Bhardwaj 2265 (talk) 09:54, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Sir thanks for understanding my contention and working to the needful , but we must understand that rephrasing it from "can" to "could" cannot suffice as the overall intention of the statement is same. As per my research , WHO has not yet said those statements. Even if according to your additional sourcing they have said , than the proper link should be attached with that statement . Link 7 is of opening remarks of WHI Dic-Gen . Than the hyperlink of link 7 should be replaced and instead of those opening remarks , your credible additional sources should be attached Akshat Bhardwaj 2265 (talk) 10:01, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Sir thanks for understanding my contention and working to the needful , but we must understand that rephrasing it from "can" to "could" cannot suffice as the overall intention of the statement is same. As per my research , WHO has not yet said those statements. Even if according to your additional sourcing they have said , than the proper link should be attached with that statement . Link 7 is of opening remarks of WHI Dic-Gen . Than the hyperlink of link 7 should be replaced and instead of those opening remarks , your credible additional sources should be attached Akshat Bhardwaj 2265 (talk) 10:05, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Please add a proper summary when splitting

I see that a large chunk of the article has been split off into a separate, but please, when splitting, leave a proper summary behind. See WP:CORRECTSPLIT. This has been done a few times, and people just didn't bother to leave a summary or if a summary is left, it is inadequate. This made the article looks odd and unbalanced. Parts of the article get trimmed to the barest that it became uninformative, while other parts still have large sections. The last one removed is the criticism section, previously the praise for the Chinese actions was balanced by the criticism, but now, it is nothing but praise, which made this article non-neutral. Ditto for the other parts. Also why is the American subsection in Domestic responses much bigger than China? It simply doesn't make sense. So much has been stripped from the China subsection that no one reading it will have any idea how extraordinary the Chinese response was. The article as it is simply looks just a bit ridiculous. Hzh (talk) 02:11, 15 March 2020 (UTC) Hzh (talk) 02:44, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

I support all splits by experienced contributors, not always a edit summary will be able to be provided as the outbreak progresses, this isn't to remove or censor content, its to keep this page readable --Almaty (talk) 05:59, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

What is the point of being readable when the article is a mess, which is what it is now. I see problems everywhere, as I have already mentioned that there is nothing but praise for the Chinese government because the criticism has been ripped out, and the only mention of Li Wenliang is one that says he was censored for "scare-mongering" and "factual-inaccuracies" in his "controversial" post. The Chinese President Xi Jinping is not mentioned apart from being praised by foreign governments. The article now resembles something written by the propaganda arm of the Chinese Communist Party. There are guidelines for splitting, if you don't want to abide by the guidelines, then don't do it. Don't leave the article violating all kinds of Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Hzh (talk) 10:14, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Note that the Li Wenliang part was added by Mopswade - [9]. Hzh (talk) 10:29, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

The WHO is not in the business of "declaring" pandemics

Whilst about half of the media ignored exactly what they said, declaring in common parlance means that a specific set of responses will occur and that there was a specific change in status that occurred on Wednesday.
We agree that that does not happen. This has been also confirmed by a WHO spokesman. They didn't declare the pandemic, they recognised that it can be "characterised as a pandemic". They also state that this is the first pandemic that can be controlled, nearly in the same breath. This is important content for the lead. --Almaty (talk) 22:45, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

"recognized as"? "called"? The status did change, it's now called a pandemic (pretty universally, which was not true before). --mfb (talk) 23:16, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

I'm happy with "said", "called", "recognised", "defined", "characterised" just not "declared" because people take that to mean there was a status change. There was only a word change. --Almaty (talk) 23:21, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Recognized, called, or said would probably be fine. - MrX 🖋 23:29, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Someone removed the disputed tag without discussion so based on these and the main page comments I put it as recognised as I don't think this has been tried. --Almaty (talk) 00:13, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Hello, I would say 'Recognized' as well. I prefer 'Recognized' over 'Called' as I find 'Recognized' a bit more formal--I'm sorry, I'm a terrible pedant, haha Rebestalic^{[dubious—discuss]} 03:27, 15 March 2020 (UTC) Should I go ahead and change now?

Yes thankyou, there appears clear consensus that it wasn't a declaration. Should we discuss whether it needs to be included that this is the first pandemic that can be controlled? --Almaty (talk) 03:45, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

I totally disagree with Almaty. The WHO declared (the current situation to be that of) a pandemic is under no means inaccurate. The parenthesized words are simply implied and such is the way we treat language. Declared is fully accurate. Carl Fredrik ^talk 10:55, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

The main page agreed it was a lot of consensus --Almaty (talk) 10:56, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

School closures - outdated references and information

The section Impact on Education needs better and more up-to-date sources. The claim "As of 14 March, more than 420 million children and youth are not attending school" is supported only by references from 4-9 March, since which time additional school closures have been implemented. The 420 million/14 March figures may be correct but this needs a reference to be a reliable claim - it is higher than the figures that I have seen for example from UNESCO.

Also, it is unclear to what level of education the figure of 420 million extends - universities are also schools, and these are widely being closed in affected areas, but university students are not being considered in this section (cf. "children and youth").

The statements "Thirteen countries have shut schools nationwide"/"Nine more countries including India have implemented localised school closures" is again supported only by a reference to an article from 4 March. It is unclear to readers which is out of date: the reference or the information on Wikipedia. Both statements are clearly out-of-date if one does additional research. At this point, using numbers on the page (without listing the countries, for example in a footnote) introduces the risk that countries implementing school closures will be accidentally missed or double-counted, since these numbers are rapidly changing.

Are worldwide statistics on school closures and impacted students being compiled that could be cited? The most reliable site that I have found is UNESCO, where the following is stated:

"An unprecedented number of children, youth and adults are not attending schools or universities because of COVID-19. Governments in 49 countries have announced or implemented the closure of educational institutions in an attempt to slow the spread of the disease (link is external). UNESCO is providing immediate support to countries as they work to minimize the educational disruption and facilitate the continuity of learning, especially for the most vulnerable."

"According to UNESCO monitoring, 29 countries have closed schools nationwide, impacting almost 391.5 million children and youth. A further 20 countries have implemented localized school closures and, should these closures become nationwide, hundreds of millions of additional learners will experience education disruption."

Source: COVID-19 Educational Disruption and Response Last update 13 March 2020 https://en.unesco.org/themes/education-emergencies/coronavirus-school-closures

Also, the infographic "Learners affected by school closures caused by COVID-19 as of 13 March 2020" cites only a reference from 4 March, but it shows (for example) school closures in Denmark and Norway that were only announced this week.

Note that country-wide school closures take effect in Iceland as of 16 March (not sure if the Wikipedia graphic will be automatically updated at midnight tonight to reflect that). Source: Samkomubann vegna COVID-19 tekur gildi 16. mars 2020, Published 13. mars 2020 12:09, https://www.almannavarnir.is/frettir/samkomubann-vegna-covid-19-tekur-gildi-16-mars-2020/

Thanks! --Sylgja (talk) 11:11, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Inaccurate per-capita map in infobox

Please do not add the following map until its factual errors have been corrected: File:March14 cases per-capita-COVID-19.png. I have currently commented it out from the infobox; please read the Commons talk page discussion for details. Most notably, China is two shades too light (colored as >0.1 active cases per million when it really should be >50 active cases per million). There may be other errors, but they are also not correctable because it is a PNG file instead of an SVG. The editor who created it seems to have simply colored in the countries using raster tools (closer inspection finds a lot of uncolored islands), so I don't think it should really be used in any case. Maybe another editor could produce an SVG alternative? — Goszei (talk) 06:40, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

I want to call attention to this again; the same editor has again added the map, which still has the same glaring inaccuracy. — Goszei (talk) 10:37, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

@Monopoly31121993(2): Can you comment on the above, and correct the map as applicable? --Dan Polansky (talk) 10:44, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

I agree with removing the "Cases per capita" map as advocated by Goszei until its flaws have been resolved. I already discussed the map itself on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension_talk:Media_Viewer/About, removed it once; Monopoly31121993 reverted it ... without addressing the issue first. Why?Redav (talk) 12:32, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Why no photos from China at the top of the page?

At the top of the article, there are some photos:

Hospitalised patients in Tehran, IranItalian government outbreak task forceDisinfection vehicles in TaipeiHealth checks at Milan Linate AirportEmpty shelves in an Australian supermarket due to panic buying

Why no photos from China, where this virus originated? Surely that should be noteworthy? 77.241.137.181 (talk) 10:44, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

b/c its worldwide, not just China--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 12:54, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Given that it started in China, it is bizarre that it is not reflected in the photos. I see this as no more than part of an effort by some editors to push the narrative propagated by China so to minimise its role in the outbreak and blaming other people to deflect blame. Another example is a recent edit saying the origin is unknown (it matches the latest Chinese narrative) when it is clear it started in China. The article is now non-neutral and UNDUE (e.g. there is now more content on criticisms of US than China, not to mention a whole subsection praising China), and also a far larger section on the United States than China in the domestic response section. Hzh (talk) 13:11, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

@Hzh: Rather than sprouting conspiracy theories, why don't you find an image from Commons:Category:2019–20 coronavirus pandemic in China or otherwise that we can use that and then come back here and tell us about it, and tell us where you feel we should add the image (e.g. if you want to replace one of the existing ones)? Bear in mind that all of the images we are using at the top of the page except for the empty shelves one seem to be coming from government sources, and of course they are often the ones able to provide quality images under difficult conditions. So naturally there is going to be a bias towards governments who actually release their content under free licences or into the public domain, as well as governments willing to provide images that seem to be illustrative rather than pure propaganda. Of course there may be suitable images that don't come from government sources, as with the empty shelves one, but ultimately we're limited by what's available under a suitable licence, as we always are. P.S. As for the US criticism thing, welcome to Wikipedia. Where our strong US editor base means a US bias in a large percentage of articles, often in a way that annoys most of us who don't live in the US. Nil Einne (talk) 14:31, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

I don't really care for the images, if pushed, I'd say delete them. Nice theory about more American editors, but that isn't what happened, otherwise why would you have a whole section praising China? There was a great deal more content about China (probably around a third of the article), but all that was trimmed away, so that now you have a lopsided article. Hzh (talk) 14:55, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Broadway

How should this be handled? I don't yet have a link other than this.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 17:38, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Like everything else. If this aspect of the pandemic is receiving a large amount of coverage, then we should summarize what sources are saying about it, in proportion to everything else that is relevant to the situation. - MrX 🖋 18:26, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Right, but where and how much in this article?— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 15:45, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Need to address the elephant in the room in introduction

I tried today to add "which may be deadlier than common cold outbreaks". I know it's a common point of view that we certainly can't sweep on the carpet anymore. Governments are closing schools and what not under the assumption that this is something else then a common flu. We should mention in the lead why this virus is notable. I'm fully aware that we have no solid evidence in a way or the other, but there are way to convey this in a succinct way in the lead. Iluvalar (talk) 04:00, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Iluvalar, I agree with you, but we'll have to find the sources that support that assertion. Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝) 04:35, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

The 3-4% "mortality rate," while cited, is not accurate. No one has mentioned that the potential under-reporting of mild cases, or those who do not seek medical care, is inflating the rate. Should change this to crude mortality rate, because that's what it is currently. There is no official mortality rate/ratio yet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.81.166.225 (talk) 10:25, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

The "Elephant in the Room" is the fact that China's numbers are pure fabrication. And any "reliable source" that bases their analysis on numbers coming out of China, which includes the WHO, the CDC and the Main Stream Media, is not reliable. I know why they are doing it, pure politics. Same goes for Iran. I've been analyzing this by excluding China and Iran, and it paints a totally different picture.DrHenley (talk) 05:41, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

There are issues around correctly determining the mortality rate, which we should discuss in the text, but we should report what good citations are saying, as well as potential issues with the numbers. One issue is the possible under-reporting of mild cases. I would like to see much more on both that and the under-reporting of all cases.

To go off on a tangent, this article remains obsessed with giving the number of reported cases when we know these are not the actual number of cases (for a variety of reasons, many unavoidable). We need to make clear that these numbers are not some gospel truth and that reliable sources are certain they're under-reporting. Bondegezou (talk) 10:40, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

All the nonsense about "mortality rates" and ill defined "fatality rates" is a real shame. I have tried many times to have these problems corrected because I believe Wikipedia should have much better quality standards/control. First, it should be made VERY clear that mortality rates are one thing and fatality rates are another e.g. the "2%" of the 1918 Spanish Flu is a mortality rate and should not (can not) be compared to fatality rates. Second, if this wikipedia article wants to talk about fatality ratios with graphs and figues etc... it must CLEARLY STATE what it means by "crude" fatality ratio. I prefer to use the term "Confirmed Case Fatality Ratio" as opposed to the classic CFR e.g. the CFR for the seasonal flu is typically 0.1% but if you calculate the CONFIRMED case fatality ratio (as is obviously and inevitably done for covid-19) then you end up with 7-8% (using CDC data for this years flu in the US). TheRightKindOfDoctor (talk) 12:03, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

@TheRightKindOfDoctor: I've made an attempt to distinguish between case fatality rate and mortality ratio. Feel free to correct further, but preferably such stuff should be linked to existing articles. If none exists, a section within the existing relevant article or a new standalone article can be created. Brandmeister^talk 18:07, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Here is a fun bit of history : https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:2009-2010_flu_pandemic_table&oldid=315947664 . The H1N1 flu (which is now seasonal) CFR was over 1% using the same technique.

So we seem to agree here to add a mention of the death rate in the lead ? Iluvalar (talk) 16:33, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Convalescent plasma

The WHO summary of research documents investigations of the use of convalescent plasma as a treatment for COVID-19. Should this be mentioned in the Management section? Lavateraguy (talk) 08:20, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

I don't think so. It's theoretical at the moment, not even experimental so it could possibly fall under a research heading. But there are about 35 other possible treatments working their way thru the system, we can't list them all. Wait until there is more progress, clinical trials take a long time. Robertpedley (talk) 12:57, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Agree with Robertpedley. Bondegezou (talk) 17:20, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

WikiProject COVID-19

I've created WikiProject COVID-19 as a temporary or permanent WikiProject and invite editors to use this space for discussing ways to improve coverage of the ongoing 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic. Please bring your ideas to the project/talk page. Stay safe, ---Another Believer _(Talk) 16:38, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Task Force would probably been more appropriate but whats done is done I'll help out as much as I can. — RealFakeKimT 17:38, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

agree Task Force would have been better--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 17:40, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Colouring seems misleading for China

The colour for China and the legend indicate that in China there would be over 0.1 cases per million inhabitants. Assuming there are about 1,450,000,000 inhabitants in China, and taking either the number of confirmed COVID-19 cases (i.e. 80,824) or the number of confirmed cases minus the confirmed recoveries and deaths (i.e. 80,824 - 65,569 - 3,189), this would lead to approximately 55.7 or 8.3 cases per million. So, while strictly speaking the colouring is not wrong (since both numbers are indeed over 0.1 cases per million), the colouring is misleading. Who is technically knowledgeable enough to change the colouring of the map for (at least) China?Redav (talk) 11:57, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

thanks for suggestion--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 17:42, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Illogical sentence.

The article reads:

• Owing to the effective quarantine of public transport in Wuhan and Hubei, several countries have planned to (...)"

Maybe the author meant something like this:

• To make the quarantine of public transport in Wuhan and Hubei effective, several countries have planned to (...)

Of course those countries don't care too much about China. They care about their own citizens who are in danger, which will matter in the next elections ;-) But what is the quarantine of public transport ? Quarantine of empty vehicles makes no sense. So, how about:

• Because of the situation in Wuhan and Hubei, several countries have planned to (...)" ?

85.193.242.185 (talk) 18:27, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Next time, create the message as an edit request, or add the edit request template to the top. The template looks like this:

{{edit semi-protected|2019–20 coronavirus pandemic|answered=yes}}

. I have added it for you. CoronavirusPlagueDoctor (talk) 18:35, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

@CoronavirusPlagueDoctor Oh, excuse my ignorance. It was a great lesson to me. Thank you so much :-) 85.193.242.185 (talk) 18:53, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

@85.193.242.185: Don't worry, it's not a mandatory thing. It's just that you're more likely to get a response, so it should be added. CoronavirusPlagueDoctor (talk) 18:57, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Display problems of the article suddenly

Some recent edit must have change the main page. Suddenly I see side-panel scrollbars, which I did not see a few hours ago, or the days before today. So someone has changed something, which is a bit annoying because now I have to use these scrollbars. Could the main table, which I am most interested, simply be made in the middle of the page instead? I don't want to have to use a scrollbar to see new infections per country. 2A02:8388:1641:8380:3AD5:47FF:FE18:CC7F (talk) 19:12, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

@2A02:8388:1641:8380:3AD5:47FF:FE18:CC7F: The template is not part of the article. The actual template is at Template:2019–20 coronavirus pandemic data. If you want a scroll-bar less version of it, go ask so in the template's talk page. CoronavirusPlagueDoctor (talk) 19:15, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Active Cases

Please add active cases in the table. Possibly also rank the countries by active cases. China is no longer an area of high risk. Germany has a much larger active case density than China for example. Robads (talk) 00:45, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Worldmap of percentage increase

Please add a worldmap with the daily percentage increase in different colors. This shows better which areas are strongly growing and which parts of the world have a low growth. For example the daily increase in Germany is very high, while in China it is very low now. China has mastered to suppress the spread of the virus. Robads (talk) 00:52, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Impact

• 40 countries with 100+ cases. In most countries it took 19 days to reach 100
• 11 countries with 1000+ cases. From 100 to 1000 it took 7 days in most countries
• 3 countries with 10000+ cases. From 1000 to 10000 it took 9 days in most countries

Next time, create the message as an edit request, or add the edit request template to the top. The template looks like this:

{{edit semi-protected|2019–20 coronavirus pandemic|answered=no}}

. I have added it for you. CoronavirusPlagueDoctor (talk _{about the coronavirus}/Contributions _{about the coronavirus}) 01:59, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Sources? Speaking of which, I have noticed that the number of cases, number of deaths, and number of recoveries counts are being periodically incremented, but no new citations are being added. If the same sources are being used and they are being updated on-the-fly, at least change the |access-date=. As it is, several of these changes appears to be unsourced but masquerading as sourced, having replaced figures that were sourced a day or so ago without updating the sourcing. That is, with the present sources cited, some of these would likely fail verification.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  02:30, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

References

Inconsistencies in Epidemiology Table

Autonomous territories such as the Faroe Islands, Gibraltar are included with their official country. This is inconsistent with the autonomous territories of Hong Kong and Macao which are included in separate rows.

We should either list all states, territories and regions under its official country, or list all autonomous territories (highest degree of autonomy in a country's system) as separate countries/territories.

JMonkey2006 (talk) 10:17, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

No. Consistency isn't necessarily going to be possible: we depend on how sources are reporting the data. Bondegezou (talk) 10:55, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

But the issue is that many government and organisations such as the WHO report these countries and territories in a different manner. Wikipedia should list all of the territories in a consisten manner (such as listing them all separately). The WHO reports Hong Kong, Macao and Taiwan cases with China, but reports Palestine cases separately from Israel. So, Wikipedia shouldn't be depending on how other sources report the data. JMonkey2006 (talk) 03:30, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Template

I have created a new easy-to-edit version of the template at User:Rich Farmbrough/2019–20 coronavirus pandemic data. Please feel free to implement it, or not, as I am off to bed.

All the best: Rich Farmbrough (the apparently calm and reasonable) 22:51, 15 March 2020 (UTC).

@Rich Farmbrough: How does your template differ from the existing version? CoronavirusPlagueDoctor (talk _{about the coronavirus}/Contributions _{about the coronavirus}) 23:11, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

For changes to the template, talk about it here: Template talk:2019–20 coronavirus pandemic data. It is changed very frequently, so it is unlikely to be easily replaced by a sandbox version, although good ideas could be used. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 05:31, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Wikidata list

Please enter correct data in following Wikidata items for regional coronavirus outbreaks and related topics. A subset of this auto-generated list can be useful in various language versions of this article. The content may also affect the content of a future Wikidata based {{Infobox pandemic}} in some languages. Tomastvivlaren (talk) 13:23, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Extended content

--- Update the list now |SPARQL |Find images This list is automatically generated from data in Wikidata and is periodically updated by Listeriabot. Edits made within the list area will be removed on the next update! Wikidata item Pandemic Start End Number of deaths Number of infected Description Medical state Cause Direct cause Part of Intance of Subclass of Symptoms Country of origin Spreadning map Q83872271 COVID-19 pandemic in China 2019-11-15 COVID-19 COVID-19 pandemic by country and territory COVID-19 pandemic in Asia COVID-19 pandemic in the People's Republic of China disease outbreak Q83872291 COVID-19 pandemic in Japan 2020-01-16 COVID-19 COVID-19 pandemic by country and territory COVID-19 pandemic in Asia disease outbreak state of emergency state of emergency state of emergency state of emergency People's Republic of China ∑ 2 items. End of auto-generated list.

References

Minor locations in Hubei

@Ikon21: Here's an example of how we handle minor locations in Hubei [10] [11] [12] [13] Everybody in the English speaking world knows where Brooklyn is, but to write 'Jianghan' without writing 'Wuhan' is to obscure the location of Jianghan. Geographyinitiative (talk) 06:13, 16 March 2020 (UTC) (modified)

Is what is found on Wikitionary a guideline? I don't think so. For the sake of the infobox, it should be concise as possible. Anyone can rollover the Jianghan link and see that it is a district of Wuhan, so it is not necessary to list Wuhan repeatedly as the information is more elaborated in the actual article. -Ikon21 (talk) 06:26, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Why is Hong Kong listed separately to China?

Shouldn't Hong Kong be included in the figure for China, in the table? We don't list, for example, England, Scotland, etc. separtately (they are combined into United Kingdom). You could also argue that Taiwan shouldn't be listed separately either, because very few countries recognize it's "independence". Same goes for Palestine, as it isn't a real country.MisterZed (talk) 17:32, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

@MisterZed: Because our articles separate the mainland from the other three territories; each of the NHC daily reports (since the case confirmation in the Tibet AR on 29 Jan) also cites 31个省（自治区、直辖市）, which is the number of provincial-level divisions in the mainland. CaradhrasAiguo (leave language) 17:43, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Because there is no freedom of movement between Hong Kong and the mainland China, they have very different healthcare systens, and the measures taken by the governmant of the PRC are not valid in Hong Kong and vice versa--Ymblanter (talk) 17:45, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

MisterZed, Hong Kong and Macau are Special Administrative Regions and while are technically part of China, are not part of the Mainland. Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝) 22:51, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Agree

Hong Kong and Macao (SARs of the People's Republic of China) should be listed with data from the Chinese mainland. However, the Republic of China (currently in occupied Taiwan) should be listed as a separate nation as it is not, in reality, under the Chinese government's jurisdiction. Its de facto government also confirms a much lower number than the mainland. Palestine is actually recognised by most countries (it is just that most of the Western world doesn't) and is recognised as a non-UN member state by the UN (along with the Holy See). The Republic of China is no longer recognised by the UN as a member or non-member, and is recognised by only a handful of countries including Paraguay and the Holy See. JMonkey2006 (talk) 10:25, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

• Hong Kong and Macao have very high autonimy including having border control with the mainland so they are generally consider separate from the main land. With Taiwan most countries don't officially recognise it because of China but most do unofficially so it is listed as separate. — RealFakeKimT 19:26, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

It is true that the SARs of Hong Kong and Macao have a high degree of autonomybut they are still a part of China. Maybe we can list them as

• China (mainland)
• China (Hong Kong)
• China (Macao)

And then also list other autonomous territories such as Gibraltar in a similar fashion.

• United Kingdom (Gibraltar)

JMonkey2006 (talk) 03:24, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

I disagree with this proposal. We follow Wikipedia-wide consensus and norms, which use "Hong Kong", and not "China (Hong Kong)" in tables and lists. Refer to examples such as List of countries by Human Development Index, List of countries by GDP (nominal), East Asia, Cantonese, Dollar, Ages of consent in Asia. Should you disagree with the current Wikipedia-wide consensus, feel free to raise a discussion at WP:Village Pump. --benlisquare_T•C•E 04:44, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Okay, fair enough. But then, we should at least separate other autonomous territories such as the Faroe Islands from their official nation. JMonkey2006 (talk) 08:42, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

National Health Commission of the People's Republic of China lists them separately :). 香港特别行政区148例，澳门特别行政区10例，台湾地区59例―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 04:57, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Global personal registration of disease

This website was recently created to enable individuals to register their status, providing global information about the condition and spread, and minimizing "dark numbers". It was reported by this technical media. I don't know where to add it in the article, if any. TGCP (talk) 10:57, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

In English TGCP (talk) 10:59, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

I would strongly object to this being added to the article. - MrX 🖋 11:43, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

OK, we'll wait until it becomes a recognized tool for researchers and authorities. TGCP (talk) 11:50, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Lockdowns vs quarantines

There is a difference. If Israel is on "lockdown", that means New Zealand is on "lockdown". Neither are on quarantine. --Almaty (talk) 08:07, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

generally agree--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 15:35, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Quarantine = practicing social distancing, closing schools, cancelling events, etc, but you can still go out, i.e. what the U.S. is doing now. On the other hand, lockdown = staying at home no matter what, except in extreme circumstances, i.e. what Italy is doing now. Victionarier (talk) 11:20, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

It was wrong that it can’t be reinserted without numerous verifiable sources. It was removed 6 times at last count, no fault of the author, it’s that the data is impossible to do. Almaty (talk) 13:10, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Template:Cite web parameters with more than one value

• Warning: 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic is calling Template:Cite web with more than one value for the "title" parameter. Only the last value provided will be used. (Help)
• Warning: 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic is calling Template:Cite web with more than one value for the "publisher" parameter. Only the last value provided will be used. (Help)

I cannot find them. T3g5JZ50GLq (talk) 15:17, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

JHMap source missing; other citation cleanup

There's a source cited multiple times as "JHMap" that is not actually in the article. I've looked back a ways in the diffs and am not finding it, so my guess is someone copy-pasted material with citations from another article and forgot to bring the source with them. Someone fix it, please. I did several hours of citation and other clean-up, and this was the only thing outright broken that I didn't fix. BTW, imposed a consistent citation style as instructed at WP:CITEVAR; among other cleanup, I reverted a half-finished attempt to convert this to a mixture of at least two forms of Vancouver-style citations, since the article is already predominantly in "vanilla" WP:CS1 style, and it's a completely lost cause trying to use something as fiddly as Vanc. in an article like this that is seeing dozens or more editors per day working on it, some of them using old cite tools that lack such options anyway, and most of whom would not know Vanc. style if it bit them in the rump. Anything that requires consistently adding special parameters over and over again is a poor idea in such an article since most editors simply will not do it, meanwhile in an article this large and growing, it's a bad idea for code-bloat reasons, too. In the course of this I fixed over 100 cases of people using the wrong parameters (putting publisher in the |work= field and vice versa), doing deprecated things like |year= instead of |date=, fake "placeholder" author names, misusing author-related parameters for fragments of publisher names, mis-identified publications, unlinked notable publications, missing information that helps identify publications and their reputability, bare-URL "citations", etc., etc., etc. I'm sure I missed a few spots, but I think I nailed about 97% of it.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  02:26, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

thank you for bring the above to our attention--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 15:58, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

WHO.int mashup: "MAP : Novel coronavirus (COVID-19) situation"

• https://www.who.int/redirect-pages/page/novel-coronavirus-(covid-19)-situation-dashboard

redirects to:

• https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/685d0ace521648f8a5beeeee1b9125cd

The GIS data which builds this map could be useful or a

{{external media}}

infobox could point to the map. T3g5JZ50GLq (talk) 15:32, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

The data on that map appears dated and doesn't seem to show how old each data point is. The U.S. cases shown are only half the current total, for instance, and Russia closer to one-third. Rmhermen (talk) 16:11, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

cases/numbers

First confirmed death in Mexico

https://www.debate.com.mx/politica/Muere-el-empresario-Jose-Kuri-primera-victima-de-coronavirus-en-Mexico-20200315-0210.html https://www.radioformula.com.mx/noticias/20200315/quien-era-jose-kuri-harfush-la-primera-victima-de-coronavirus-en-mexico/ https://turquesanews.mx/mexico/primer-victima-mortal-de-coronavirus-en-mexico-el-empresario-jose-kuri-harfush/

Please confirm if the news outlets are true. If they are, modify the numbers on Mexico death toll to 1. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.159.1.26 (talk) 04:42, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

1 Death in S. Paulo, Cases in Brazil 300

https://g1.globo.com/sp/sao-paulo/noticia/2020/03/17/estado-de-sp-tem-o-primeiro-caso-de-morte-provocada-pelo-coronavirus.ghtml https://g1.globo.com/bemestar/coronavirus/noticia/2020/03/16/brasil-tem-234-casos-confirmados-de-novo-coronavirus-diz-ministerio.ghtml

Greenland

Given that Greenland now has a confirmed case in Nuuk, I think the main map should be updated so that it is no longer a grayed-out "No Data". --(Moshe) מֹשֶׁה‎ 17:55, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Germany ⚱️

Please use this link to update faster https://interaktiv.abendblatt.de/corona-virus-karte-infektionen-deutschland-weltweit/

First case in Yemen

First Coronavirus case has been reported in the country of Yemen. But due to ongoing civil war in that country it's hard to confirm or verify that.claim. [[14]]

Neither side of the conflict has confirmed it either. But I think it's fair enough to include that in the official list.

Also Coronavirus Asia list includes Yemen. Kalpesh Manna 2002 (talk) 11:11, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Pandemic starting date

Date of the disease originated is seemingly disputes. The previous edit said it started from November 17 before December 1. An earlier edits stated that the date is pushed toward December 12. This causes editing conflict, or misinformation through Wikipedia project. I recommend that editors must use the true independent reliable sources that is stable and they till can search from Google and find best sources largely informs about the virus. Secondly, do not change the origin date periodically that causes less trust for Wikipedia readers. The Supermind (talk) 16:23, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

The disease starting date is November 17 2019, according to China. The pandemic starting date would be officially when the WHO declared a pandemic, so 11 March 2020. CoronavirusPlagueDoctor (talk) 16:40, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

No. When something is identified as a pandemic is not when it began. The pandemic started 17 Nov 2019. Lots of people started calling it a pandemic later, certainly by Feb/early Mar. WHO started calling it a pandemic on 11 Mar. The latter is not when the pandemic started. Bondegezou (talk) 17:17, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

The problem with the 17 November date is that it is a claim based on an undisclosed government document reported by a newspaper. We don't know how reliable that information is. The 1 December date on the other hand is given in a published paper on the study of the disease. Hzh (talk) 17:55, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

This site here suggests that at the very least it would have been November something: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/wuhan-seafood-market-may-not-be-source-novel-virus-spreading-globally Idiacanthus 14:30, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Yes, it is implied by the 1 December date (the infection would have been earlier before the patient went to a hospital), but it also could have been October 2019 or earlier as indicated by the qualifier if not earlier, therefore it's not of much use. The 17 November date would also pushed the date of first infection even earlier. Hzh (talk) 15:13, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

"If not earlier" doesnt seem to be in the article right now Idiacanthus 16:30, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

I can still see it - the first human infections must have occurred in November 2019—if not earlier—because there is an incubation time between infection and symptoms surfacing. Hzh (talk) 18:18, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Ton of US Gov videos and photos here

in case anyone wants to help importing them: https://www.dvidshub.net/search/?q=coronavirus&filter%5Btype%5D=video&view=grid Victor Grigas (talk) 17:24, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Unfortunately, we need someone who has the software/knowledge to batch convert these to a different format. Commons does not accept MP4's which is what pretty much every video put out by the DOD is stored in. Umm... maybe @Fæ: can, or knows someone who can? GMG^talk 17:27, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

I think that's probably a set with me in it.

I'll think about it (warning, my thinking time is measured in months). I already have a cookie doging programme to get files, my problem is more ancient kit per m:Hardware_donation_program/Fæ and that Toollabs was not a very helpful place to transcode 1GB video files. BTW, I already am doing CDC videos. --Fæ (talk) 18:27, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Total cases outside China exceed total cases in China

Almost certainly the world counter will exceed 162,000 cases either today or tomorrow -- at which point there will have been more cases outside China than there were inside China. That probably deserves a line in the Epidemiology section, and probably in the lede. This not crystal-balling. Since the pattern of new cases inside and outside China indicates that it is only a matter of a day or two, I simply heads-up here on the talk page, so it can be added when appropriate. (For deaths, the relevant total number would be ~6400.) - User:Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 10:42, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Irrelevant without sources. If it is inevitable we can state it tomorrow, when there will be sources. Carl Fredrik ^talk 10:50, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Per WP policy, basic math (in this case a sum total) is not OR and does not require separate referencing. And it did end up being today. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 14:47, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

The maps are original research Almaty (talk) 19:52, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 March 2020

It would be nice to update the information.

Coronavirus Cases: 181,248

Deaths: 7,128

Recovered: 78,328

Proof: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ 31.13.144.90 (talk) 19:48, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

• That is a live counter and the table isn't updated automaticaly so there will be delay but I will update it. — RealFakeKimT 19:56, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, RealFakeKim!

Austria

The government site at:

https://www.sozialministerium.at/Informationen-zum-Coronavirus/Neuartiges-Coronavirus-%282019-nCov%29.html

lists 3 deaths so far. Wikipedia currently shows 2. Can someone update the number on wikipedia? 2A02:8388:1641:8380:3AD5:47FF:FE18:CC7F (talk) 19:53, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

 Done will update. — RealFakeKimT 19:59, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

countries/locations

TRNC

Can we include Northern Cyprus somewhere else? There are reported 6 cases. Perhaps another section for partially and non recognized states? Beshogur (talk) 20:58, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

• Probrably not as there is very little international recognition for Northern Cyprus. — RealFakeKimT 19:40, 16 March 2020 (UTC)
  • The main discussion about this was on Template talk:2019–20 coronavirus pandemic data, and it is decided to have Northern Cyprus included. Non-recognition is less relevant than who is counting the statistics. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:11, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Extra countries

For UK can there be extra countries like Wales,Scotland,England and Northern Ireland. Hi poland (talk) 22:24, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

• No as they are generaly included togeather. — RealFakeKimT 19:39, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 March 2020

Change the title to Novel coronavirus pandemic Loganthebogan1272 (talk) 22:23, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:28, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Expected cases next week (Extrapolation)

Please add the total number of expected cases for one week after the current day based on the latest percentage increase. For example Germany had 4838 cases on 2020-03-15 with a percentage increase of 27%. That means in 7 days on 2020-03-22 it will have 1.27^7*4838 cases that is 25780 cases. This is a better value for showing the actual number of infected people than the current case numbers due to the incubation period delay. Robads (talk) 01:10, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

This would be very hard to do and maintain without a spreadsheet of some kind. Also, extrapolations are very unreliable, and they depend on a constant rate of increase, which changes anytime a government enacts new rules to stop the coronavirus, and is also affected by testing capacity. See Wikipedia:BALL. CoronavirusPlagueDoctor (talk _{about the coronavirus}/Contributions _{about the coronavirus}) 01:28, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Well I tried see here for the cases of China and Germany. The blue dots are taken from [[15]] and [[16]] and the orange dots are the cases from the real case numbers and percentages of each day since the beginning of the outbreak extrapolated 7 days into the future. The extrapolation is a little bit scattered, but the overall trend is reproduced quite well agreeing with actual number of cases and thus the method can be a reasonable good prediction for the future. Importantly, the increase is very drastic for Germany. If people know, what will be if no changes are enacted, they may be more likley to enact changes. (Wanted to upload the graphics, but does not work. Shows: "We could not determine whether this file is suitable for Wikimedia Commons. Please only upload photos that you took yourself with your camera, or see what else is acceptable. See the guide to make sure the file is acceptable and learn how to upload it on Wikimedia Commons." Any ideas? Thanks. Links do not work, by the way.) Robads (talk) 22:57, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Map should be coloured | All Red is Distracted !

Extended content

I am the Opinion it should have a contrast. For the Bad Regions like China, Iran and Italy can be remained Red, but second Yellow, Green and seas blue and the countries with less than 10 cases White. Then can be seen better. Now all red seems an apocaliptic Situation which is not, example I would say this is harder to read with so many colours. It is ridiculous when even Antarctica is coloured. Hzh (talk) 20:13, 13 March 2020 (UTC) There are many Expeditions' Ships travelling Antarctica and Arctic. Ships are now domes of germs incubators, It has also stations, but as you read right, countries & territories with less than 10 cases White and seas blue For me ridiculous is put Alaska with equal cases to USA, just because Alaska is political there, but is a different territory with almost no one... for god sakes, just the beautiful wolves... or other interesting animals... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.108.149.192 (talk) 21:15, 13 March 2020 (UTC) The infobox map should be replaced with File:COVID-19 outbreak global case count map scripted.svg. It is generated hence less prone to errors. It also complies with mapping conventions. Ythlev (talk) 19:54, 13 March 2020 (UTC) My only concerns are the colour scheme, it feels kinda odd to see everything in the shade of orange, don't get me wrong. The colour scheme has been discussed before, participated by several editors, so a sudden change won't be widely acceptable. And the second and last concern of mine is the file, why do we need to use multiple files for a single purpose map? These are just my opinions by the way. —hueman1 (talk • contributions) 20:03, 13 March 2020 (UTC) Should go from blues to refs IMO. Florescent green, no thanks. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 02:23, 14 March 2020 (UTC) HueMan1 Agree, except that we should make the seas white and the countries with the least cases gray. Victionarier (talk) 18:10, 15 March 2020 (UTC) Greens to reds sounds fine to me, but I have no objection to the current color scheme, and the proposal does not look good at all — it's impossible to tell which colors represent what without looking at the key, so it's much less informative. Sdkb (talk) 06:43, 16 March 2020 (UTC) Greens to reds cannot be seen by all the colorblind people out there. Grayscale (or any single color going from dark to light) is greatly preferred. I would leave it as is, or switch from red to a single color that is more calming. Segoldberg (talk) 18:16, 16 March 2020 (UTC) For me a better Map Realistic continues to be so https://interaktiv.abendblatt.de/corona-virus-karte-infektionen-deutschland-weltweit/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.108.149.192 (talk) 09:49, 14 March 2020 (UTC) In my opinion it should stay as is as the diffrent shades of red have find contrast. — RealFakeKimT 19:51, 16 March 2020 (UTC) Whatever it is, it should be a gradient. This image is just visually confusing and completely counter intuitive. GMGtalk 23:32, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 March 2020

Change 'The virus primarily spreads between people SIMILAR to influenza' to 'The virus spreads primarily between people SIMILARLY to influenza' because 'SIMILAR' is an adjective modifying the noun 'PEOPLE' and 'SIMILARLY' is an adverb modifying the verb 'SPREADS'. 72.168.128.30 (talk) 23:45, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

 Done - Updated to "The virus primarily spreads between people in a similar manner to influenza" as I think it is clearer than using an adverb.

"Potential long term impacts"

Although interesting, I considered removing this section per WP:CRYSTAL. Thoughts? --Calthinus (talk) 21:34, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

depends on the references...IMO--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 22:14, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

KEEP = That is not Crystal Ball 🔮 but Obvious Facts, depending all world to only China supplements was weak, more local depending economies in own products from cars to airplanes must be, each country must develop, construct and produce own product, and personally hope the outdated work system, without all third offices or people handling to industry, must reappear ! Future must be only Direct Jobs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.108.149.192 (talk) 22:30, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

....yeaaaaahhhh reading this made me consider deleting it again. --Calthinus (talk) 00:11, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

Old moves on this Talk page

I think its a good idea without question to adjust the old moves list into not collapse (false) value list to allow others see the whole thing at once, because many are not getting it. Its getting out of control. Regice2020 (talk) 00:24, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

Example below

Rather than a long list perhaps just add a giant "stop proposing moves that aren't likely to happen" sign (I've seen these before but can't think of an example off the top of my head). —Nizolan ^{(talk · c.)} 00:31, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

@Nizolan: That is the point. They need see that long list (shown). The only solution for them review the other moves without needing to press [Show] Regice2020 (talk) 01:30, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

Case fatality rates

This has been an ongoing discussion throughout the course of the article. The current CFR quoted, whilst high, sourced, and attributed, does not provide any necessary context to the general reader. Estimates vary widely based on numerous factors (please do a search of "death rate" or "mortality rate" or CFR in the talk). I think that any CFR quoted needs a detailed amount of context, context that not even experts are able to provide at this stage. Therefore, until a review on CFR is done, CFRs should not be quoted per WP:MEDRS --Almaty (talk) 02:48, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

"CFRs should not be quoted per WP:MEDRS": Aha. I am at a loss of words. Shame on you and on WHO. --Dan Polansky (talk) 09:10, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Lets be WP:CIVIL please User:Dan Polansky --Almaty (talk) 09:37, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Which passage of WP:MEDRS prohibits publishing of CFR, publishing with appropriate warning about uncertainty? Are you in any way affiliated with WHO? --Dan Polansky (talk) 09:43, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Anyway, the kind reader can find out about CFR e.g. in Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19), ourworldindata.org; search for "How do case fatality rates from COVID-19 compare to those of the seasonal flu?" and find that the CFR for covid-19 is "12 to 24-times higher than common flu" when all ages are considered together. --Dan Polansky (talk) 10:09, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

User:Dan Polansky that is precisely my point, we need to include a lot of clear communication of uncertainty if and when we decide to publish CFRs. --Almaty (talk) 10:16, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

That is easy to do yet Almaty claims above even experts cannot do it. Let's try: "The best estimates of CFR range from X to Y, but the calculation is fraught with difficulties, including difficultyA, difficultyB, and difficultyC(trace to multiple sources)". How hard can it be? Are you in any way affiliated with WHO? --Dan Polansky (talk) 10:27, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

please see my user page in regard to my affiliations. Yes I agree we can certainly say something along those lines, you have my support on that wording. —Almaty (talk) 02:49, 17 March 2020 (UTC)