Talk:Akita (dog breed)

Page Name

Why is this page named in this style when the pages for the Shikoku and Hokkaido breeds aren't? They aren't known as "Skikoku dog" and "Hokkaido dog" anymore than Akitas are. --Vigilante Girl (talk) 11:57, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

It would appear that this is not true. They are often referred to as Shikoku dogs and Hokkaido dogs in English. A Google search backs this up. However, Akitas are not generally referred to as Akita dogs. English usage is not necessarily consistent! -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:00, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

However, natural disambiguation is generally preferred to parenthetical. The form "Akita dog" is also more consistent with other pages in the category. There are a few "_____ (dog)" page names, but there are many more "_________ dog" page names. --Khajidha (talk) 13:07, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

Yes, but natural disambiguation is only valid when the phrase it produces is commonly used in English, otherwise it breaks the "rules" of WP:COMMONNAME. Nobody says Akita dog. Some of these page names need to be changed (e.g. who on earth says Dalmatian dog?). To quote WP:NATURAL, "Do not, however, use obscure or made-up names." Like it or not, we have hundreds of thousands of parenthetically disambiguated article titles on Wikipedia; we don't need to use made-up names that nobody actually uses only for dogs just because some editors have decided we only want to use natural disambiguation for dogs. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:12, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

It may seem odd to you, but I encounter the phrase "Akita dog" (and parallel constructions for other breeds) quite often. Things like "I have an Akita dog and two Siamese cats" are normal English usage. --Khajidha (talk) 14:19, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

Not in my experience. Never heard anyone say that, to be honest. Siamese cat, yes (no, I don't know why the difference either). Akita dog, no. Maybe it's an ENGVAR thing (I'm English). Would you also say Husky dog, Labrador dog or Springer spaniel dog? -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:54, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

Husky dog would be possible, but I'd more likely say "Labrador retriever" and "dog" would be redundant to "spaniel". --Khajidha (talk) 15:01, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

I'd just say Labrador myself! Never referred to as a Labrador retriever in Britain outside formal documents. I doubt whether most people even know that is its full name. The "dog" bit is completely redundant in all these names, given that when used as nouns they're unlikely to mean anything else. That's why, to me, it sounds odd adding it. But obviously our experiences differ. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:50, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

To me "Labrador" by itself is a region in Canada. Use of an unmodified "Labrador" for the dog is rare where I'm from, it's either the full "Labrador retriever" or "black lab" or just "lab" (which, to me, is where I work). For comparison, I am from North Carolina in the United States. "__________ dog" sounds fine to me as long as the breed does not have another word for "dog" (eg: spaniel, hound, terrier) or a "job name" (like shepherd, retriever, pointer) in it. Though "German shepherd dog" might squeak through on the grounds that there are human German shepherds. However, "dachshund" might get a "dog" suffix as the "hund" is not 100% transparent and "________ ken" or "_________ inu" would certainly have it added, as those would not be perceived as having an actual meaning. (In my dialect "Sahara Desert" is perfectly normal, as "Sahara" is not perceived as having any actual meaning). --Khajidha (talk) 16:12, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

Labrador, without an article, would mean the region to me too of course. But a labrador or the labrador would mean nothing but a dog, and we would never add "dog" (or even "retriever" in common usage; a "retriever" to us would always mean a golden retriever) to that. Yes, "lab" (or black lab, yellow/golden lab or chocolate lab) would be common here too. But German shepherd (or Alsatian), Husky, Dalmatian, Akita, Dachshund, etc, would generally be seen as unambiguous in British English. They would always refer to dogs unless it was made absolutely clear that they referred to people or places. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:23, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

While many of those would be recognized as dogs, the formulation "_________ dog" would not seem out of the ordinary around here. They are definitely common enough formulations that they meet the standards for natural disambiguation (at least in my dialect). And "akita" by itself would likely be meaningless to most people I know. "Akita dog" or "an akita, that's a type of dog" would be necessary. "Alsatian" is also nearly unknown, it is "German shepherd" in almost all references. Not to mention the fact that page titles do not include "a" or "the" which you mention as signallers.--Khajidha (talk) 16:46, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

I was talking generally, not about Wikipedia titles. But as I've said, in British English these formulations would be nowhere near common enough to count as common usage (and therefore natural disambiguation). In fact, they would be looked upon as downright weird. Which is why I said that nobody uses them; but clearly, as I've said, this is actually an ENGVAR issue. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:22, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Chihuahua (dog) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 09:47, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

Weight of American Akita dog is up to 130 LBS not 110 LBS per AKC Breed Standard. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:FF90:7E30:804E:A240:C3F7:A97C (talk) 15:04, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Weight/height of the Japanese Akita looks a little suspect. It's showing the male height as being 2 inches taller on average over the female while also showing the male weight as being nearly half that of the female. Since the statistics are unsourced, I think this is probably a mistake. The number one citation on this page is a dead link, so this whole article could probably use some work.68.117.153.69 (talk) 05:30, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 14 July 2020 and 20 August 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Kyle vieira. Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 13:42, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Japanese Akita and American Akita

Since even the AKC (and both the FCI and the KC have recognized already for a while) recognizes now these two as separate breeds, should there also be two Wikipedia articles, one for each breed? Here are links to the AKC breed pages:

• American Akita
• Japanese Akita

Canarian (talk) 15:30, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

I think there should be two separate ones as the breeds are different enough that combining them is confusing SpookMew (talk) 15:43, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

They are too different to share a page. The merged wiki page is messy. I think this article should remain for the American Akita as that is just called ‘Akita’ by the Kennel Club and a new page should be created for the ‘Japanese Akita Inu’

https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/search/breeds-a-to-z/breeds/utility/akita/

https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/search/breeds-a-to-z/breeds/utility/japanese-akita-inu/ SpookMew (talk) 18:24, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 5 March 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Akita (dog breed). Consensus to adopt (dog breed) as the dab for dog bread. – robertsky (talk) 23:08, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

---

• Akita (dog) → Akita dog
• Hokkaido (dog) → Hokkaido dog
• Tosa (dog) → Tosa dog

– Per WP:NATDIS, alternatively Akita inu, Tosa inu, and Hokkaido ken could be used. I have little preference over the Japanese suffix versus dog. References for: Akita, Hokkaido, Tosa.

References

Traumnovelle (talk) 07:02, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Dogs has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 09:48, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Japan has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 09:48, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support per nomination. Current Wikipedia main title headers do not differentiate between famous dogs, such as Cheeka (dog), Cosmo (dog), Darla (dog), Higgins (dog), Jean (dog), Teddy (dog), Koko (dog), Madison (dog), Petra (dog) or Skippy (dog) and dog breeds, such as Chinook (dog), Dalmatian (dog), Harrier (dog), Hokkaido (dog), Kaikadi (dog), Kintamani (dog), Smithfield (dog), St. Bernard (dog), Talbot (dog) or Tosa (dog), thus seemingly presenting the article as one delineating a celebrated dog named "Tosa". Perhaps, instead of using "(dog)", dog breeds can use "(dog breed)" or simply "(breed)" as a parenthetical qualifier. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 18:53, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

  No opinion on the overall idea, but if you're striving for consistency, don't forget Armant (dog), Barbet (dog), Boxer (dog), and Chihuahua (dog). Please note that there is a similar RM already open for Brittany (dog). —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 04:54, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support This does seem the norm for breeds, rather than individually named dogs. Walrasiad (talk) 02:56, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support alternate move to Akita (dog breed), etc. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 06:22, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
• Comment Note similar ongoing RMs at Talk:Brittany (dog), Talk:Boxer (dog), and Talk:Feist (dog). 162 etc. (talk) 05:59, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support alternate move to Akita (dog breed) (and analogously for the other breeds under discussion). In my experience I see the breed just referred to as an "Akita", but I agree that the existing DAB is misleading. Using "(dog breed)" achieves the best of both worlds. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 15:52, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.