Talk:Vikings (2012 TV series)

Latest comment: 5 years ago by Paine Ellsworth in topic Requested move 22 November 2018

"Episodes": Table width

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The table width is currently set at 100%99% and this is normally perfectly OK. In this case, however, the info box on the right is in the way, so there is a huge gap between the section's title and the table itself. I suggest changing the table width to 65% or 75%. Doing so should eliminate the problem without changing any of the content. Anybody else feel differently? Thanks in advance - Marchjuly (talk) 08:08, 4 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Changed the table width to 70% which, in my opinion, looks much better. - Marchjuly (talk) 08:17, 4 February 2014 (UTC)Reply
I'm not seeing anything in the table. The episodes section is just blank. 65.96.119.50 (talk) 19:05, 19 July 2015 (UTC)Reply
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Move discussion in progress

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There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Vikings (TV series) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 10:31, 19 December 2017 (UTC)Reply

Requested move 11 January 2018

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: withdrawn. (non-admin closure) 67.14.236.50 (talk) 06:59, 14 January 2018 (UTC)Reply


Vikings (TV documentary series)Vikings (documentary) – Much more concise disambiguator, and we have no other articles on documentaries by the name, so it’s WP:PRECISE enough. Also, the current disambiguator just seems awkward. 67.14.236.50 (talk) 07:18, 11 January 2018 (UTC)Reply

See alternative proposed below. —67.14.236.50 (talk) 18:09, 13 January 2018 (UTC)Reply

There is some support here for a move to Vikings (2012 TV series), which is more in line with WP:NCTV. Does anyone have reason to oppose this alternative? —67.14.236.50 (talk) 18:09, 13 January 2018 (UTC)Reply

Only two editors have supported that, one of those as an alternative. This was also the proposal at the recently closed RM discussion and it was rejected there. You're trying to achieve the result you want by having two separate RM discussions and that rarely works. It's also not appropriate to change the entire RM when there has been a substantial response. If you're withdrawing the original suggestion then the RM should close as a matter of procedure. --AussieLegend () 18:40, 13 January 2018 (UTC)Reply
I’m willing to open it as a new RM (and ping this one’s participants) if that would be best. I didn’t see much discussion of this page’s title at the combined RM, except to say it should be renamed regardless of whether the other TV series was. I figure it deserves to be considered on its own merits. —67.14.236.50 (talk) 06:02, 14 January 2018 (UTC)Reply
The other RM proposed moving this page and 8 of the 11 (including the nominator) participants opposed that proposal. Only one of the supporters actually said anything other than "Support per nom". What you're doing by separating the two articles into two RMs is trying to achieve a Fait accompli. If this article is moved then you can try to get the other moved. There should only be one RM for both. --AussieLegend () 06:48, 14 January 2018 (UTC)Reply
Belated reply: I solemnly swear to make no further efforts on the other article. If that series is considered primary for partial disambiguation (even if I disagree), that remains the case no matter this title. —67.14.236.50 (talk) 07:06, 14 January 2018 (UTC)Reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 14 January 2018

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not Moved. Summing up the supporting and opposing side arguments; there is no consensus for move and repeated Move Request within short period of time after clear opposition can bee seen as disruptive editing. (non-admin closure)Ammarpad (talk) 19:19, 8 February 2018 (UTC)Reply


Vikings (TV documentary series)Vikings (2012 TV series) – Per WP:NCTV and the consensus at a recent village pump discussion. There was some support for this in the above RM, from both User:Woodensuperman and User:Netoholic. This move was previously proposed in a combined RM alongside further disambiguation of Vikings (TV series) (which failed), but was never really discussed on its own merits. 67.14.236.50 (talk) 06:59, 14 January 2018 (UTC), edited 05:11, 31 January 2018 (UTC) --Relisting. ToThAc (talk) 18:40, 23 January 2018 (UTC) --Relisting. Bradv 19:49, 1 February 2018 (UTC)Reply


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 22 November 2018

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Moved. Open for 40 days and relisted 3 times! This debate needs to be closed. See enough support below that is in line with the guideline's community consensus to rename this article as requested. Opposers have generally recognized this as an exception to the guideline; however, I have read through all the previous discussions and see no further reason to call the targeting title a valid exception to our guideline. Kudos to editors for your input, and Happy New Year! (nac by page mover) Paine Ellsworth, ed.  put'r there  14:57, 1 January 2019 (UTC)Reply


Vikings (TV documentary series)Vikings (2012 TV series) – Per WP:NCTV and WP:CONSISTENCY. Per WP:NCTV#Additional disambiguation, genre should only be used if year and/or country is insufficient. This is not the case here. --woodensuperman 13:29, 22 November 2018 (UTC) --Relisting. Steel1943 (talk) 17:06, 1 December 2018 (UTC)--Relisting. SITH (talk) 21:14, 15 December 2018 (UTC) --Relisting. SITH (talk) 16:31, 26 December 2018 (UTC)Reply

Oppose (UK TV series), as the drama series is filmed in Ireland, and as the UK comprises Northern Ireland, which itself is in the island of Ireland, there's enough disambiguity to not support it. -- AlexTW 02:49, 6 December 2018 (UTC)Reply
Vikings (2013 TV series) is filmed in the Republic of Ireland, which is not Northern Ireland, and not in the UK. This is like saying that Vikings (Australian TV series) would be ambiguous if something else was filmed in New Zealand. And of course, where something is filmed actually has no bearing on the nationality we would choose for the disambiguator anyway. --woodensuperman 10:33, 6 December 2018 (UTC)Reply
Grasping at straws. I was not aware that "New Zealand" had the word "Australia" in it - can you point me to where? And it certainly does, and I can provide an example - Riverdale (2017 TV series) was moved to its current location with the reasoning the 2017 series is filmed in Canada, so year disambiguation is less ambiguous, to disambiguate from Riverdale (1997 TV series), which is a Canadian series. -- AlexTW 11:58, 6 December 2018 (UTC)Reply
Seriously, you're the one grasping at straws with the strangest logic I've ever seen. Can you point me to where "UK" has the word "Republic of Ireland" in it? Why would anyone think that something with the disambiguator "UK" might in fact be Irish instead? --woodensuperman 12:07, 6 December 2018 (UTC)Reply
They are both connected to Ireland, and thus there is not enough separation to title it "UK". And certainly: The United Kingdom, officially the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland but more commonly known as the UK. There's the word "Ireland", directly as requested. Then, given your change of heart, can you show me where the phrase "Republic of Ireland" is in either Vikings article? I certainly can't see it. Also, can you explain the "no bearing" when the given example proves that as clearly false? -- AlexTW 12:14, 6 December 2018 (UTC)Reply
It's the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. But we're getting sidetracked. Vikings (2013 TV series) is a Canadian-Irish co-production, therefore not a UK production, therefore Vikings (UK TV series) is NOT ambiguous, as it cannot in any way apply to the former. --woodensuperman 12:20, 6 December 2018 (UTC)Reply
Both are related to the UK and Ireland, and the Republic of Ireland is not included in either article, thus there's not enough disambiguation, in my opinion. Still no comment on Riverdale. -- AlexTW 12:23, 6 December 2018 (UTC)Reply
How is Vikings (2013 TV series) related to the UK? How is this article related to Ireland? You seem to be getting political and geographical meanings of "Ireland" confused. Click on the link for Ireland in the lede at Vikings (2013 TV series) and you'll see where "Republic of Ireland" is mentioned. And Riverdale is a separate case, but I see the point where year is more appropriate there. If there wasn't such ridiculous objection to moving this article in line with our guidelines, it could easily be sitting at the year and we wouldn't need this pointless discussion. --woodensuperman 12:31, 6 December 2018 (UTC)Reply
Click on the link for Ireland in the lede at Vikings (2013 TV series) and you'll see where it's mentioned. Sorry, I wasn't aware that Republic of Ireland and Vikings (2013 TV series) were the same article. As they are not, the Republic of Ireland is still not included in either article. If there wasn't such a ridiculous attempt to force moving this article in line guidelines that are just that - guidelines and not policies - then I agree that we wouldn't need this pointless discussion four times over, as there is clear disagreement over where it should be. -- AlexTW 12:34, 6 December 2018 (UTC)Reply
WP:CONSISTENCY is policy. The naming guideline documents how to implement that policy. --woodensuperman 12:36, 6 December 2018 (UTC)Reply
Please cite which part of the policy you are quoting. -- AlexTW 12:42, 6 December 2018 (UTC)Reply
Of course: "Consistency – The title is consistent with the pattern of similar articles' titles. Many of these patterns are listed (and linked) as topic-specific naming conventions on article titles, in the box above." --woodensuperman 12:45, 6 December 2018 (UTC)Reply
Very next line: These should be seen as goals, not as rules. For most topics, there is a simple and obvious title that meets these goals satisfactorily. If so, use it as a straightforward choice. However, in some cases the choice is not so obvious. It may be necessary to favor one or more of these goals over the others. This is done by consensus. -- AlexTW 12:58, 6 December 2018 (UTC)Reply
@Woodensuperman: Any comment? -- AlexTW 23:18, 6 December 2018 (UTC)Reply
I will answer instead – there has never been a legitimate policy-based argument made why this article should be at a non-standard title. Either Vikings (2012 TV series) or Vikings (UK TV series) are perfectly acceptable options under WP:NCTV, and the article should be moved to either. (Hatnotes can easily deal with any lingering confusion...) OTOH, I'm not sure what argument you're trying to make, but it seems to be that for any situation in which there were two TV series with the same title produced in both the UK and Ireland, then "by country" disambiguation is not allowed (because, Northern Ireland, like, exists?!)?... I don't think you will get very far with that argument at all if you try to make it at WT:NCTV. --IJBall (contribstalk) 18:12, 7 December 2018 (UTC)Reply
  • Relisting note: this needs more discussion. Currently there seems to be no consensus but considering the number of RMs this has been given it'd be good to get as much discussion as we can on this to settle it. SITH (talk) 21:14, 15 December 2018 (UTC)Reply
  • Support PDAB. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:29, 17 December 2018 (UTC)Reply
  • Support Vikings (UK TV series) - As the majority appear to be American I feel this one should be under "UK". –Davey2010 Merry Christmas / Happy New Year 23:22, 23 December 2018 (UTC)Reply
  • Oppose It survived 5 years saying what it does on the tin.REVUpminster (talk) 06:05, 24 December 2018 (UTC)Reply
  • Relisting note: I tally four !votes for support original, four !votes for oppose original, one !vote supporting Davey2010's proposal and one !vote opposing it. Per my previous relist, let's try and get a constructive dialogue in this next week in order to forge a lasting consensus for the title of this page. Many thanks, SITH (talk) 16:31, 26 December 2018 (UTC)Reply
  • Oppose - As I've stated at the other RMs, despite my support for WP:NCTV, it is just a guideline, not a hard and fast rule that must be obeyed at all costs. In fact there are no hard and fast rules. Occasionally there are situations where common sense has to be applied as there are occasional exceptions (that's right there in the banner at the top of NCTV). WP:NAMINGCRITERIA is policy and it says that article titles should unambiguously identify the article's subject and distinguish it from other subjects. The current name does exactly that. The proposed names comply with NCTV but do not "unambiguously identify the article's subject". A reader visiting either of those would likely be expecting to find a full TV series, not a documentary series. Disambiguation by year is, at best, confusing. When did the TV series actually start, 2012 or 2013? Most people would not remember this and would have to go to the DAB page first. "UK" doesn't help at all. Most people likely assume that Ireland is part of the UK so "UK TV series" could just as easily apply to the TV series as this documentary series. Looking at the big picture, I firmly believe that this is one of those exceptions where common sense has to be applied. For that reason, I believe that the current name is the best for this article. It complies with the policy in that it unambiguously identifies the article's subject and that seems the best option for our readers. --AussieLegend () 03:17, 28 December 2018 (UTC)Reply
    • "Most people likely assume that Ireland is part of the UK so "UK TV series" could just as easily apply to the TV series as this documentary series." Seriously?! That's a laughable argument. Again – if "UK" is not enough to distinguish from "Ireland" in terms of disambiguation, then you guys need to make that argument site-wide, as that will affect articles far beyond just WP:NCTV. (Strange that no one has ever seen a groundswell of confusion surrounding this previously! or that no one has objected to this at WT:NCTV before!...) As it stands, there is nothing preventing the use of "UK TV series/programme" vs. "Irish TV series/programme" – in fact, there are already multiple, multiple examples of articles being disambiguated with "UK" vs. "Irish" – just as there is nothing preventing its use in this case. Let's just move this to Vikings (UK TV series), and use a hatnote, as is already done at dozens, if not hundreds, of other articles in exactly the same situation as this one. --IJBall (contribstalk) 07:25, 28 December 2018 (UTC)Reply
      • Why exactly is it a laughable suggestion given that the very issue of Ireland vs the UK has been raised above? Most people are geographically challenged. Check YouTube and you'll find plenty of examples of Americans who barely know where their own country is, let alone anywhere else. However, that's only one point of my opposition to a move. --AussieLegend () 10:55, 28 December 2018 (UTC)Reply
        • It's laughable IMO because a disamgiguation scheme that we've been using for upwards of 20 years on this project is suddenly being called into question when no one has noticed it being "a problem" before. I agree with Gonnym above – the opposers here are grasping at straws, defending the current disambiguation scheme when it's completely unnecessary, and when there is absolutely nothing wrong with either "proper" disambiguation method, esp. with the use of a hatnote, which is standard practice in situations like this. --IJBall (contribstalk) 17:08, 28 December 2018 (UTC)Reply
From the guidelines NCTV : Additional disambiguation[edit]
When there are two or more television productions of the same type and name, use one of the following methods:
Prefix the country of broadcast (adjective) – (U.S. TV series), (Canadian TV series), (UK TV series). Generally used when shows are distinct primarily due to region, especially used to distinguish regional versions of the same format/premise
They are not the same type of programme. One is historical adventure the other a talking heads documentary.
If the year, country, or a combination of both is still insufficient to disambiguate the topic, an appropriate genre or format word ("animated TV series" or "anime", "telenovela", "soap opera", "sitcom", etc.) can then be considered for use via a page move request.
etc covers everything else you can think of such as TV Documentary. It's is like The Bible after all. REVUpminster (talk) 19:13, 31 December 2018 (UTC)Reply
  • What that means is that we should check these disambiguation methods first - year: Vikings (2012 TV series), country: Vikings (UK TV series), or combination of both: Vikings (2012 UK TV series) - and only after those, if the title is still unclear, then we could use some alternative. We can sufficiently disambiguate this article using only the year as in the original proposal in this RM. Everything after that is extraneous. -- Netoholic @ 12:54, 1 January 2019 (UTC)Reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.