User talk:SusunW/Archive 29

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Thank you ...

... for improving the quality or articles in May, and a steady flow of new ones! - Will focus on singers in June. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:51, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Thank you so much Gerda Arendt. Women's of the Sea was so much fun and The Women's Lib article(s) was really a huge accomplishment. Now if we can just find someone to review them all. ;) SusunW (talk) 14:11, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for making them. Sorry, I'm no GA reviewer, - I do my share in FA reviewing, but being a sole reviewer is not for my level of English. First singer translated, and will work on breaking these boring lists of opera house and great men ;) - Second singer has a strange history, I decided on her because I found her in a ref for her teacher and made her a red link, then went to an opera and she sang the leading part, - and I had no idea when I went. Preview --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:22, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Gerda Arendt Yes, I have often said GA review places too much burden on one editor, but what the heck do I know? I am impressed that you have already finished a June article. I have selected my target, but barely started. Don't you love those serendipitous moments? I say they are leading us to our stories :) SusunW (talk) 14:42, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I love these stories you wouldn't believe if you hadn't experienced them yourself. - I haven't finished, but a translation was good enough to publish. It will grow and go to DYK. A singer whose career was made when she stepped in for Anna Netrebko, as Anna, of all roles. I made up my mind to write about her when I heard her as Arabella last week, and then postponed her to June, to make her part of the drive ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:54, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Gerda Arendt totally. My weirdest encounter happened in a cemetery. I was searching for an elusive death date and was in the neighborhood of where she was supposed to be buried. Walked into the cemetery in the middle of nowhere and said out loud, to my husband where should we look? Literally, some lady came over the hill took us right to the grave and then back to her house for coffee, where she gave me tons of documentation on her grandmother. I found my first subject this month as part of the WLM article(s) and discovered she was part of the first same-sex couple to marry in her state. Saved her for June as well. SusunW (talk) 15:07, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Chicago Lesbian Liberation

Whoa! Isn't it weird we chose two connected topics like that? BTW, your article helped me fill in some missing spots on mine! Megalibrarygirl (talk) 20:56, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Megalibrarygirl LOL, I know. We keep doing that! My sister says it's sisterthought. She just seemed way too important not to have an article of her own and with your addition of the organization, we'll have another anchor to work with :) SusunW (talk) 21:13, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Megalibrarygirl I am not jumping in to that discussion on your page, but perhaps the situation of Native Americans in Oklahoma would be helpful? They are their own sovereign nations, within the boundaries of the state and typically not bound by most state laws on tribal property, but bound by federal law. To give someone ethnic identity as part of a tribe, there must be documentation. One cannot assume because they live there or even married in that the tribal identity extends to someone. (Which is why I did not label Azalea Thorpe as Cherokee, though her husband, Lloyd Kiva New was). If it doesn't help, you can of course ignore me ;) SusunW (talk) 22:54, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

I like the idea of sisterthought!

As for the discussion on my page, I hope I can help resolve it. Your comparison is one I was thinking of, too, but wasn't sure if it applied. There does need to be some documentation that I haven't been provided yet. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 23:01, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Mary Hayley

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Mary Hayley you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Carabinieri -- Carabinieri (talk) 23:41, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Mary Hayley

The article Mary Hayley you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Mary Hayley for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Carabinieri -- Carabinieri (talk) 15:41, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Collaboration on Women in Green

I've started drafting a proposal on WiR collaboration but before I ask for comments on the WiR talk page, I would appreciate receiving your own reactions and any additions or adaptations.--Ipigott (talk) 16:17, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Ipigott I added stuff and signed up for stuff. ;) SusunW (talk) 17:51, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Women in Red library?

You mentioned building a library for Women in Red, I think. I'd like to know more and perhaps cover it in The Signpost. Could you give me a pointer to past discussion? Are you looking for support? Would you like to write a blurb about it for the issue? ☆ Bri (talk) 21:39, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Bri It's still in the planning stages. We have money to buy books, have a beta program set up and are trying to find coding help from the WikiLibrary Group. Yes we are definitely looking for support, help, anything you can offer. Megalibrarygirl is working on the technology part and Rosiestep and I are trying to figure out how we best pull in sources about women. SusunW (talk) 21:50, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Bri, it's not as easy to start up as we (I?) had hoped it would be. But once it is up and going, it could become a model for what other WikiProjects do. I am optimistic! --Rosiestep (talk) 21:57, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Bri we need a little coding help. We're building the library using Koha (software). We'd like the eBook lending interface to be included with the Koha software. To do that, we'll need to write some sort of plug-in for Koha. :P Megalibrarygirl (talk) 21:59, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

(edit conflict) So intriguing! How will it work? Will books be sent by post (physical mail)? Who has funded it? Is there a recognized User Group, or this is a non-affiliated effort? ☆ Bri (talk) 22:02, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Maybe Megalibrarygirl answered this already but will the library be 100% ebooks? ☆ Bri (talk) 22:03, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

In a nutshell, what we would like is to be able to purchase e-books, or use open access books, and lend them to our membership. We like the borrowing interface from archive.org, but are working on the technology piece as Sue indicated. SusunW (talk) 22:03, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

The money is from the world contest, but we'd certainly take donations. We haven't organized a User Group yet. SusunW (talk) 22:05, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

I wonder whether having a group or some kind of recognition as a 501(c)(3) affiliate you would be able to get in-kind donations or at least discounts from the book vendors. ☆ Bri (talk) 22:13, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Susun and Susan (Megalibrarygirl) would you like to do an invited interview on this topic? Maybe I can throw together some questions for you? Is there anyone else involved who I could invite? - ☆ Bri (talk) 22:29, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

@Bri, Megalibrarygirl, and Rosiestep: I think the answer to that is yes, when we get a bit farther along. Right now, I am not even sure that I understand the technicalities of what we are asking for. But something about "does have a plugin architecture" and "implement this as fork" (neither of which I have even a remote idea what are) sounds like it is possible. LOL (I told you Sue was the technician. I'm just the idea person. Rosie is the who, how, what Wikiinterface person.) SusunW (talk) 22:16, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

Not a problem if you want to come back to this in the future. For now I've summarized this convo as bulleted notes here, and will work it up into prose for Signpost issue 7 by end of June. ☆ Bri (talk) 22:46, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

@Bri, Megalibrarygirl, and SusunW: As far as I know, Women in Red is the first wiki community who is developing its own digital lending library. If there are others, we'd love to learn from them. If there aren't, we would be happy to share our lessons learned. Once we launch and get comfortable with our processes, I think it would be thrilling to develop a network of like-minded wiki e-libraries. The concept of doing so fascinates me, but technologically, I'm clueless as to how it would be developed. --Rosiestep (talk) 07:26, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

@Bri: Trying to figure out how to write some plugins for Koha is key here. Right now I have it set up to link to various public-domain items. But to lend out eBooks with no free copyright, we'd need to control checkouts. I need to either figure out how to do it myself (erk!) or find a cool person who's interested in writing a Koha plugin for a group of groovy Wikipedians. :) Megalibrarygirl (talk) 22:13, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure you do not want me to help with this Megalibrarygirl, except as moral support, because to me a plug in is something that goes in a wall socket and a fork is a utensil one eats with :) Maybe someone will see this on my page like Redrose64 who might have a far better clue than me. SusunW (talk) 22:50, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

What is Koha? And why me? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 07:37, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Redrose64 Cause you fix programming issues, we need a coder, and you are awesome. Koha is a library software. If you aren't able to help, not a big deal. SusunW (talk) 14:00, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Redrose64 Koha is an open source program used to catalog and check out books to patrons. It's really cool. :) Megalibrarygirl (talk) 18:35, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Would the funds be able to be used to access articles behind paywalls so that we can get up to date articles on women which have become inaccessible (no, I don't have any in mind now but - going forward....) ☕ Antiqueight ^chatter 19:13, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Antiqueight our plan at this point is to use whatever we can to increase the access to resources on women. Several of us had access to Cambridge via the WP Library, but none of us could access their Orlando collection of Women writers. We asked the library to see if we could add that and after several months of negotiations they did. Same thing with Alexander Street Press's women's collection. The WP Library only had access to ASP's video collections, but Sam Walton was able to get access to more when we asked. If you need a specific article, post it on the WiR page, my page, or Sue's Megalibrarygirl and we'll see what we can do. If it is a whole collection, we can try have the WP Library get access. If we figure out the technology, the plan is to buy books. So, we have big plans (dreams) but are making progress. SusunW (talk) 22:08, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Thank you You are all awesome. I am continually in awe and aspire to be like you all. ☕ Antiqueight ^chatter 22:12, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Geofocus on Russia/Soviet Union

Hi Susun. In connection with our June priorities, I've created Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by nationality/Soviet Union and also added a few other red lists to the editathon page. As you were the one who came up with the idea, you might like to expand on the text explaining why we need to focus on these women and perhaps provide a few tips on how we can find the most important ones. I'm happy to see, btw, how MLG and you have both been working on further improvements to the Women's Lib pages. Great stuff! I'm afraid I have not had much time for Wikipedia over the pat month as I have been involved in all kinds of other work. But I do try to keep tabs on what's going on each day.--Ipigott (talk) 14:51, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Ipigott It wasn't me who suggested it, I only added it to the calendar, see curtain and I certainly don't want to take credit away from PlanespotterA320 for the suggestion. I think if we said something about many well-known women from Russia and the Soviet Union are unknown in the west because of cold war politics it would shape the reasoning. We might also suggest that if there is an existent article in Russian sources should be noted and translation credit should be properly cited. What do you think of adding that?

Sue has been helping me push through the UK, which will be the last of the WLM, I think. Will need to integrate that info into the overview and do a final edit to assess whether it should/could be nominated as a GA. But, I will say we have vastly improved what was there before and it is certainly much more comprehensive and global in scope, giving a much fuller picture of what they wanted, why they wanted it and how much impact it really had. SusunW (talk) 15:19, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

OMG, SusunW there is no doubt that article could be nominated for a GA. It's so thorough. As for England, I know there's more pivotal events to add which I'm getting to this morning. Have coffee, will edit. Wales seems to have more out there, but I'm wondering if there's a language thing? What do you think, Ipigott? Are there any Welsh terms I should be searching to dig up Welsh Women libbers? Megalibrarygirl (talk) 15:57, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

I don't know if you saw my note on the talk page Sue. I KNOW there has been work done, I just cannot access anything. Don't know if it is a Mexico thing, a language thing, or a non-digital thing.... SusunW (talk) 16:01, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Oh, definitely Susun. I know there was WLM going on in Mexico and I think Argentina. My Spanish language researcher has turned up some stuff from the 90s, but I'm looking for earlier. Also he's a little bit adorably flakey, so I'll have to redirect him. I'll look at the links below, too. Also, as I'm doing the English Women's Libbers, I discover that lots of important orgs or movements that have bluelinks are just redirects. I fixed the Reclaim the Night one that was incorrectly redirected to the USA version. :P Megalibrarygirl (talk) 16:44, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Megalibrarygirl mayhaps these will be of some use? [1], [2], [3], [4], [5] I think those are the last items in my sandbox. SusunW (talk) 16:15, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

I found stuff on Mexico and put it in the North America page. (What I meant from the above was whether I was blocked because I am in Mexico; you have no idea how often I get an error message about that.) Have not seen anything on Argentina, though I did try to search all the South American Countries. I think they were probably influenced but as most of the countries were living under dictatorships at the time, perhaps not involved. And absolutely, YES, I have found a bunch of links that were redirected to the wrong country or event. If we have done nothing else, we have corrected a bunch of inaccurate information and fixed a bunch of links ;) SusunW (talk) 17:01, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

• So on the Soviet Union, PlanespotterA320 may have some suggestions.--Ipigott (talk) 16:09, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Yes, Ian, you know, my page kind free flows and ideas tumble into each other ;) SusunW (talk) 16:15, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

• @SusunW: and @Ipigott: Here's some to start with;
  

1. There's a Soviet woman who has an article in 7 languages but not English: ru:Anna Pankratova;
2. Heroes of the Russian Federation ru:Vera Voloshina, ru:Natalya Kachuevskaya, ru:Marina Plotnikova, ru:Nina Brusnikova, ru:Marem Arapkhanova and ru:Lidya Shulaikina. (don't take ru:Alime Abdenanova 'cause I'm already working ton her article;
3. Tank commander ru:Aleksandr Boiko
4. Regimental commander of the 586th Fighter Avition Regiment ru:Tamara Kazarinova (she was actually quite a villan and made her way to regimental commander of a women's aviation regiment mostly for her role in the Great Purge even after an injury left her unable to fly. She hated the pilots of the regiment, tried to get rid of them by sending them on suicide missions, and threw away any Hero of the Soviet Union nomination that reached her desk);
5. Renowned artist and victim of the Crimean Tatar Holocaust ru:Adaviye Efendiyeva;
6. Chechen-Ukrainian soldier, sniper, medic, and police officer uk:Amina Okueva.
--PlanespotterA320 (talk) 15:15, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, PlanespotterA320. I copied your suggestions to the editathon page. Keep up the good work!--Ipigott (talk) 15:38, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

PlanespotterA320 I am looking for a source and quite frankly don't really even know what it is. This says Дмитрий Ильич Муханов, 1852-1882 appears on pages 320, 366-367 of what? If this is the same Dmitry Ilyich Mukhanov, who was married to Maria Aleksandrovna Kovalkova and had a daughter Maria Dmitrievna Mukhanov, I would be very interested in accessing the source, but I cannot figure out what the list is an index for. Can you help? SusunW (talk) 23:52, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

I'm confused...that page isn't availble; however it is worth noting that many names were very common back then and solely having a same name isn't much; for example, the 46th Taman Guards Night Bomber Regiment had over a dozen members name "Yevdokiya". I can't figrue out a way to access that book but I would try a different source and googling the names in Russian.--PlanespotterA320 (talk) 00:05, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

PlanespotterA320 I'm in Mexico, so I am positive we get different things available to us. I think this is the guy [6] though it is on WP.bg. but I am not sure. SusunW (talk) 05:52, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Mary Hayley source

Hi Susun, I've finally managed to make it to the library and look up that source. It doesn't seem to actually mention Hayley, but I can email it anyway if you want. It would be easiest if you could email me from and then I'll reply with an attachment. Best, Carabinieri (talk) 13:42, 14 June 2018 (UTC) Carabinieri (talk) 13:42, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

Carabinieri sent you an e-mail and thank you so much! SusunW (talk) 13:45, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Barnstar of Diligence
	For https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Vera_Gedroits&diff=846000223&oldid=845999354; which I would not have believed, honestly. GRuban (talk) 16:17, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

Thank you so much GRuban. I truly have enjoyed working with everyone on her article. Such a fascinating woman! SusunW (talk) 16:25, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Vera Gedroits

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Vera Gedroits you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Vanamonde93 -- Vanamonde93 (talk) 05:40, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Thank you Vanamonde93 Totally thrilled to have this one done for Pride month. SusunW (talk) 08:05, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Carmen Casco de Lara Castro

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Carmen Casco de Lara Castro you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Kudpung -- Kudpung (talk) 22:41, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Thank you ;) SusunW (talk) 22:45, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

I don't want you to think I've forgotten this, but as I said, I have to find slots to look at it. The first read through looks as if it should not have too much trouble passing GA - you're obviously very experienced at preparing articles for GA by now. I'll do any updates on the review page. If you haven't heard from me for 4 days, please give me a nudge because I'm travelling a lot this week. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:46, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

Thank you Kudpung, I'm pretty OCD, so yes, meticulous. But, that is not to say that any article cannot be improved. I really, really appreciate you looking at her. When, if, you are able to make comments I hope that I am able to respond accordingly. SusunW (talk) 00:53, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

Kudpung Not pushing, just gently reminding, per your note above. SusunW (talk) 13:23, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

I haven't forgotten. It's just a time factor. I've done some minor work on it as you can see. That said, it's so well written that to make any suggestions for improvement would simply be nitpicking. I just need now to check all the sources and then we're done. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:11, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Kudpung Thank you. When you get around to it is fine. SusunW (talk) 05:00, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

I can't find anything I can improve without being pedantic. It's rare to find an article that is so complete, well reasearched, and well written. There is just one source to resolve. If you can do that, I'll pass it. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:15, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Women in Archaeology Draft

Hi SusunW, @Joe Roe:

I've gone thru the Women Archaeologists Category and created a list of women that we may want to use in the article. I added that information toward the bottom of the draft--before the list of Notable Women. I am new to collaborating on an article like this, so I am going to just throw in a few ideas. If that is not how this works, please let me know.

I like the idea of discussing notable women in prose form. I've seen this in the Women in science and Women in architecture articles. The headings and names that I put together and added to the draft--feel free to modify, remove, use. Whatever works for you and Joe.

Also, for the less notable women archaeologists, should we have a list of the remaining women at the end of the article or not include them at all? Please let me know how I can help. I am busy with other articles (and life), but I should be able to work on this draft every few days. MauraWen (talk) 23:03, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

MauraWen I do try to work them in to the prose text, but those that aren't in the body, I typically add as a notables list. As I am writing prose, I put them on a list and if I can work them in, then I remove them from the list, if that makes sense. And yes, my real world is kinda crazy at the moment and I have two GA under review right now, but I will pop in and out on the document. I am a stickler for citations, but other than that, feel free to modify anything I write. I am pretty low key and not remotely concerned if someone changes the wording or formatting. ;) SusunW (talk) 23:46, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Carmen Casco de Lara Castro

The article Carmen Casco de Lara Castro you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Carmen Casco de Lara Castro for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Kudpung -- Kudpung (talk) 04:21, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

And as a PS to the bot message: personal congrats and for all you are doing for bios about women (that was the reason I took on the GA review). Warmest regards, Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:23, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Thank you Kudpung! She was such an strong woman with a story that I thought should be told. Who would've thought that a woman from Paraguay could have a GA on English WP? I appreciate your help with the article and your encouragement. SusunW (talk) 04:43, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi again

Hi again, how are you? I see you're keeping busy writing lots of good articles. I'm now working on one for Alicia Cuarón, an inductee to the Colorado Women's Hall of Fame. I came across this article, "'Latina Agenda: 2000 and Beyond' Set at ECC", which seems to mention her a lot. Could you clip it for me? Thanks so much, Yoninah (talk) 22:52, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Yoninah here you go [7]. Weirdly the nomination approvals all came at the same time, but yes, I am staying busy ;) Let me know if you need anything else. SusunW (talk) 22:58, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Thank you! I'm so happy we're online at the same time, though separated by a half a globe!. Yoninah (talk) 23:04, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I love the internet. Has certainly made the world a much easier place in which to communicate and conduct research. I would be lost without it. SusunW (talk) 23:18, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Vera Gedroits

The article Vera Gedroits you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Vera Gedroits for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Vanamonde93 -- Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:01, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Thank you so much Vanamonde93! It was a pleasure working with you! SusunW (talk) 19:09, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Congratulations! A very interesting article ☆ Bri (talk) 20:55, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks Bri yes, she was fascinating to research. SusunW (talk) 20:58, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Likewise! Vanamonde (talk) 04:54, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 22

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Invitation to participate in study

Hello,

I am E. Whittaker, an intern at Wikimedia with the Scoring Team to create a labeled dataset, and potentially a tool, to help editors deal with incivility when they encounter it on talk pages. A full write-up of the study can be found here: m:Research:Civil_Behavior_Interviews. We are currently recruiting editors to be interviewed about their experiences with incivility on talk pages. Would you be interested in being interviewed? I am contacting you because of your involvement in Wikipedia’s Women in Red project. The interviews should take ~1 hour, and will be conducted over BlueJeans (which does allow interviews to be recorded). If, so, please email me at ewhit@umich.edu in order to schedule an interview.

Thank you Ewitch51 (talk) 23:06, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

DYK for Mary Hayley

On 23 June 2018, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Mary Hayley, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the London firm of Mary Hayley arranged the shipment of tea involved in the Boston Tea Party? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Mary Hayley. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Mary Hayley), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Gatoclass (talk) 00:01, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

July 2018 at Women in Red

		Hello again from Women in Red! July 2018 worldwide online editathons: New: Sub-Saharan Africa Film + stage 20th-century Women Rock Continuing: Notable women, broadly-construed! Latest headlines, news, and views on the Women in Red talkpage (Join the conversation!): Are we losing momentum? London calling (the Mayor of London!) Publication about Wikipedia's coverage of women mathematicians Women in Red is featured in Toolhub
		(To subscribe: Women in Red/English language mailing list and Women in Red/international list. Unsubscribe: Women in Red/Opt-out list) --Rosiestep (talk) 14:04, 28 June 2018 (UTC) via MassMessaging

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Question about redlists and women in film

Hi SusunW,

Since you offered help if I needed it, I will be going to you for questions I may have. I tend to have lots of questions!

I see from the film editathon idea discussion that cinematographers and film editors will be added to the redlist, but I don't see any of those categories on the editathon page this morning. I also don't see film directors. I assume WD is the Wiki data set of redlisted women? Because its automatically generated, I would think it is not the place to manually add new redlist women. Where do I go to add women cinematographers? I am a bit confused, because when I added women activists to the redlist organized by country, I found it easy to pull up the list from the editathon page and edit it manually. Please advise and thanks. MauraWen (talk) 12:51, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

I am terrible at technical stuff, but I'll give it a go. There are two types of lists, Crowd Sourced (which you can edit) and WikiData (which is automatically generated by code and cannot be edited). Entries in WD come from other WP projects (French, Spanish, Russian, etc.) and entries from dictionaries, museum holdings, etc. NotARabbit is working on the WD redlists for technicians, directors, etc. careers related to film/stage, but has not yet gotten to cinematographers or film editors. Megalibrarygirl has typically begun the CS lists, but I think anyone can do it, if they have the know-how (I don't--I can add stuff once the list exists). If there is no list which you can add to, you can create one, or just simply list them here as red links under the red box where it says "Add other red links here, if possible with a source:" SusunW (talk) 13:11, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

@MauraWen: I'm happy to start a crowd sourced list for any topic you'd like to add to. So if you don't feel comfortable creating one, let me know and I'll throw one together. I try to log in at least once a day, but I'll be offline quite a bit this weekend, FYI. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 17:38, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

@Megalibrarygirl and SusunW: Thanks! Since we are working on film and stage in July, and film interests me, I wanted to make sure we had redlist categories for film director, film editor, cinematographer. I know there are more film categories, but these will be the ones that I will be working on initially. If you need additonal film categories, I can come up with those also with a bit of time, just let me know. And thanks SusunW. You explain lists very well!MauraWen (talk) 18:22, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Camo corps pics

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I found these on the National Archives and they say they're "War Department" photographs and are unrestricted in copyright. So I've uploaded them. :) Megalibrarygirl (talk) 22:54, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

Awesome! I honestly felt like there had to be photos somewhere, so stoked that you found them! Be the rock, LOL SusunW (talk) 12:47, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Megalibrarygirl These are really, really awesome! Each has a little news item next to it. Like this gem...5 women are now working for the U. S. Navy...who'd have thought? SusunW (talk) 13:02, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Megalibrarygirl I think we probably have enough sources now :) Do you want to create it or do you want me to do it? [8], [9], [10], [11], [12], [13], [14], [15], [16] SusunW (talk) 14:24, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

You can start it, Susun. I'm going to be hit or miss today due to reasons. :( Megalibrarygirl (talk) 18:44, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Megalibrarygirl I was miss most of yesterday too. Too much RL stuff going on. It's here User:SusunW/Women's Reserve Camouflage Corps

@Megalibrarygirl and Victuallers: I took it live and put all the photos on the editathon page and as a gallery in the article. We should probably crop at least 1 for the article itself, but I have no idea how to do that. Can one of you pick an image and crop it? Thanks :) SusunW (talk) 21:11, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

DYK for Vera Gedroits

On 30 June 2018, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Vera Gedroits, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Princess Vera Gedroits (pictured)—good author but indifferent poet, lesbian but married a man—was a Russian military surgeon who pioneered battlefield laparotomy? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Vera Gedroits. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Vera Gedroits), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Alex Shih (talk) 00:01, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

@Rosiestep, Alex Shih, and Victuallers: or any other admin who watches my page, can someone tell me why my rollback is disabled on Gedroits? A bunch of edits were made to the GA which broke citations and were generally disruptive. I had to manually change them one at a time because I could not just roll them back. Has this feature been eliminated? Do I no longer have the ability to use it for some reason (and if so why?) If I still have the ability, why isn't/wasn't it available on this particular article? Thanks! SusunW (talk) 14:02, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

I see other strange things today, like the search and link not making suggestions. Haven't used rollback today, will watch for it in case I have to. - Better news: Gedroits is one the same Main page as Claus Wisser, the last in a series of founders of the festival that has brightened my summers since 1987, on his birthday. (For the others, see my talk today.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:48, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for this Gerda Arendt it was really frustrating to have to undo each individual edit. I am glad we got her on the main page and even more so that she shares her limelight there with your bit of summer sunshine. :) SusunW (talk) 14:53, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

An alternative if there are many little edits is to go to the last "clean version" in the history, edit it (no changes) and save it (ignoring several pink warning messages on the way). - One of the influential people was a woman, did you see? A great honour to have known her, she once even came to my home, - and I took the flowery image of her gravestone. (The festival always leaves flowers on her day of death in July.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:02, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

I would never have thought of editing the last clean version. I actually pulled up the current version and last clean one and then manually edited the current version to match it. I shall never understand why people who do not understand citations break citation sequence or links and then the next person blindly slaps a citation needed tag on it without even checking the previous edit, thus compounding the problem. If you don't know how to cite things properly, then don't mess with it. I am totally in favor of collaborative improvement, but illogical mucking around is not that. ;) And yes I saw that one was a woman, but how lovely for you to have actually met her. SusunW (talk) 15:16, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

I friend of mine told me, the one who wrote about the Yogo sapphires which appeared as TFA on this day in 2012. For his TFA, he remembered the last clean version, ignored all troubles of TFA day, restored the clean version when it was over, and added only the good bits. Too bad that he fell out of grace, not without his fault, admittedly - RMF: I met them all, in the Verein from the beginning ;) - Could you - or someone watching - do the DYK review for Isabelle Druet. Such a great singer, open since February, sigh. All seem afraid of the long discussions, but same thing: a reviewer could just look at it as it is today. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:24, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

That makes sense. Another idea I hadn't thought of. It boggles my mind why FA and GA do not receive some sort of protection to at least eliminate some of the fly by editing. Obviously a lot of work went into them on the parts of the creators and reviewers. My personal opinion, which amounts to a hill of beans, is that they should be protected when the status is awarded and that the only edits allowed after that is ones that are agreed by consensus on the talk page as improvements. Otherwise, fly by editors will diminish the credibility in short order. I'll try to look at Druet tomorrow. Today my plate is pretty full with RL stuff. SusunW (talk) 15:29, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Protection is against the "anyone can edit"-religion. Some get protected during Main page day, when things get too ugly. What we can do is watch the articles out there, - I missed Gedoits because I hadn't reviewed her, - sorry about that. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:56, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I get that, but I am in the anyone "may" edit camp. Disruptive editing helps no one. I 100% believe that knowledge should be shared and that no one owns any article, but I also see the need for balance to prevent the creep of POV and editing which damages the integrity of sourcing and information. As knowledge changes or sources are discovered, we have to be able to make changes, but those changes should occur with thought and mindfulness, rather than knee-jerk responses which have not weighed the balance of the evidence. For example, I *can* change technical stuff. I don't, because I am unskilled at it and always seek help and input from others when any change is above my skill level. SusunW (talk) 16:10, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Sorry you had to fix this manually (ugh!), Susun. Such a waste of time for someone who is so prolific. Wish I had a good technical answer for you, but... nope. --Rosiestep (talk) 17:33, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks Rosiestep, maybe someone will have an answer for me. Yes, ugh! SusunW (talk) 17:55, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for improving article quality in June, even with thistles! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:27, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

Thank you Gerda Arendt for always noticing. I have looked at Druet, but the issue for me is that it is French—my worst language, music—a subject I know nothing about other than that I love music from classical to modern (and its based on math), and its a BLP—and I prefer to work on dead people. But, all that being said, give me some time to try to work through the sources, and I'll see what I can do. SusunW (talk) 14:02, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

DYK for Carmen Casco de Lara Castro

On 2 July 2018, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Carmen Casco de Lara Castro, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Carmen Casco de Lara Castro, founder of one of the first human rights organizations in Latin America, was arrested, denied a passport, and monitored by the Stroessner regime? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Carmen Casco de Lara Castro. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Carmen Casco de Lara Castro), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Alex Shih (talk) 00:02, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Draft:Women in archaeology comments

Hi Susun W, @Joe Roe:,

The list of women archaeologists that I added to the Draft:Women in archaeology and then removed--I decided they did not really belong there. I have been adding women from that list to the List of female scientists in the 21st century and List of female scientists in the 20th century. I thought that was a good place for these ladies at the moment.

I thought I would be able to jump in and help with this draft, but I find the broad subject to be pretty intimidating. I am going to be more comfortable working on a more narrow subject initiallly, and work up to a broader article from there. At some point, I would like to ask you how you go about researching and writing an anchor article. If you need me to work on any of the individual biographies of women listed in the draft, please let me know. MauraWen (talk) 19:45, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

MauraWen I just pick up a source and add a bit, then come back to it later. Haven't really gotten far enough at this point to see any shape coming together, so stuff may have to move around a lot. Not to worry, if you are more comfortable writing bios, there are any number of them that are missing. ;) SusunW (talk) 20:12, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

@MauraWen:. I think the list is useful for both. I like the way Susun has been writing the history section as a history of individual notable figures, and we can use your list to make sure we hit all (or most) of them.

Of course don't feel any pressure/rush to work on it. One thing I've been thinking about to keep WP:ARCHAEO/WOMEN going now that we are very close to finishing the red-list (in no small part thanks to you!), is to focus on bringing selected biographies/"anchor articles" up to GA or even FA level. My idea was to have a "collaboration of the month" which we could work together on. Would that be of any interest to you? (Ditto, Susun!) – Joe (talk) 15:40, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks Joe Roe, plugging along. Fortunately there is no rush and I can just keep adding a bit at a time as I scan through sources. Depending on time, I'd love to do more work on GA. Since Women in Green has revived, I have committed to working on one a month for GA with them. Never done a FA, so that is still just a hmmm for me. Still writing new bios for Women in Red, and working on various special interest like the women in archaeology article. Oh, and I do have a real life, so managing time is always the thing for me ;) SusunW (talk) 17:01, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

@SusunW and Joe Roe: I would be happy to help with any collaborative projects, with your and Susun's help. I want to continue working on the Women in Archaeology Task Force. Its been a lot of fun and very educational. Can we finish up the remaining list by moving the foreign archaeologists to WD? I have completed all the bios I am going to work on from that list. I would like to research new archaeologists.

Newbie question here, why is bringing an article up to GA or FA status important? I wonder if the lack of free license photos for this subject area will keep us from accomplishing those goals. I have developed a pretty good relationship with the archaeologist for the Greek Warrior Tomb. They have lots of photos, but are reluctant to share them publicly. Dr. Davis says the textbook companies scoop them up (I am not sure why that is a bad thing). Anyway, happy to help. MauraWen (talk) 19:13, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

MauraWen in my book quality is always preferred to quantity. Simple as that and you don't have to have free photos, they just have to be properly licensed. My recent Carmen Casco de Lara Castro uses a "fair use" photo of her and very few other pictures, as apparently Paraguay images are lacking on WP. Fair use images can be sparingly used for dead people, things discussed in depth in an article, etc. Totally understand why copyright holders would be reluctant for publishers to steal their images and not pay for them. If you are using photos for commercial purposes to make a profit, why should you be able to gain from someone else's work? SusunW (talk) 19:24, 3 July 2018 (UTC)