User talk:Quetzal1964/Archive 5
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Happy New Year, Quetzal1964! edit
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Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Taxa named by C. Richard Robins edit
A tag has been placed on Category:Taxa named by C. Richard Robins indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.
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Genus Astrocottus edit
Hello! You removed genus Astrocottus from Cottidae. I wonder what was the reason for this? გიო ოქრო 16:52, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
- გიო ოქრო I would have said error but it’s a wee bit more complicated than that. I took the genus list from the 5th edition of Fishes of the World but subsequently found that the list was incomplete. Very incomplete! I tried to fill in the missing genera using FishBase and missed this one. It may not be the only one.Quetzal1964 (talk) 09:16, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
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Synanceia nana edit
Hello Quetzal1964, thanks to your revert I discovered a misidentified species. The right species seems to be Synanceia nana. I will do the cleanup. Thank you! Best, Poco2 15:40, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
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The Stub Barnstar | |
| For your great work on expanding fish species stubs. Keep up the good work! QuicoleJR (talk) 18:25, 18 May 2023 (UTC) |
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Status of fish taxonomy on Wikipedia with respect to FOTW 5th edit
Hi, Quetzal1964. I know you spent a lot of time a few years updating articles on higher level taxonomy of fishes to bring them in line with Fishes of the World 5th edition (along with implementing automatic taxoboxes down to species). Could you summarize what orders/families you worked on and brought up to date, and which ones still need to be worked on? Are you aware of any that you haven't worked on where Fishbase or COF are in alignment with FOTW with regards to the placement of genera in families/subfamilies (or any where Fishbase/COF are notably misaligned with FOTW).
Fishes of the World has some dead external links for the 5th edition. If I remember correctly from before the links were dead, the PDF only listed families, but didn't list which genera were included in the family. As far as I'm aware, FOTW isn't freely available online (ResearchGate says you can download a full-text PDF, but when I tried to do so, I only got a jpg of the front cover).
I think there are editors (I'm one at least) who would be interested in working on updating articles to follow FOTW, and finishing implementing automatic taxoboxes for fish (or at least the extant ones). But I don't know where to start, and don't have access to FOTW 5th. Plantdrew (talk) 00:15, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
- Plantdrew Thank you for your message. I have a pdf of FotW 5th edition which I downloaded to my PC from ResearchGate when it was available. I have worked on Automatic Taxoboxes for the, as far as I recall, Siluriformes, Gadiformes, Cypriniformes, Ophidiiformes, Syngnathiformes, Scombriformes, Batrachoididae, Gobiiformes, Kurtiformes, Ovalentaria, Anabantiformes, Synbranchiformes, Istiophoriformes, Pleuronectiformes, Carangiformes, Perciformes, Scorpaeniformes and am now working through the Acanthuriformes. The text of FotW lists the genera, tribes and subfamilies of each family and the various higher taxonomic grades too. Quetzal1964 (talk) 08:25, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
- I have a resource page for fish that has the ordinal and family listings of the FotW5 classification: see User:Jts1882/phylogeny/Fish. It also has phylogenetic trees comparing different sources (FotW5, Deepfin and some primary sources). Quetzal1964, you recently mentioned the work involved in adding taxonomic listings at Talk:Teleost so this might help you. If you want any phylogenetic trees feel free to ask.
- A listing of the FotW5 classification in pdf form used to be available at https://sites.google.com/site/fotw5th/ but Google have moved their Google Sites hosting and the FoTW5 site didn't migrate. There is a copy of the home page at archive.org, but I couldn't get the classification to download. [edit: found it, see below.] The Deepfin site was also hosted by Google Sites and no longer available, but is available at archive.org. — Jts1882 | talk 08:50, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
- @Plantdrew: I've now managed to find an archived copy of the FotW5 classification: FotW5Classification.pdf — Jts1882 | talk 08:58, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
- Even better, the book is available from the publisher via the Wikipedia Library: https://onlinelibrary-wiley-com.wikipedialibrary.idm.oclc.org/doi/book/10.1002/9781119174844 — Jts1882 | talk 12:52, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
- @Jts1882:, thanks. The archived link you found isn't working for me, but I did get a copy of the full text through the Wikipedia Library, so I don't need the summary classification. I've only just begun to think to check the Wikipedia Library when I run into a paywalled journal article I want to access, and certainly haven't thought about checking there for books. I was planning on working on rays (Batoidea), but am feeling pretty discouraged by the number differences between Wikipedia and FOTW5 (FOTW5 uses a different name/rank for the taxon of the rays themselves, and there are various differences in the families recognized). Plantdrew (talk) 21:41, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
- @Plantdrew: The classification list is quite a useful summary. Try again from this archived page and click on "1) Detailed classification of all fishes" or click here for the pdf. This older archived page now works for me, but the link does work on new archived pages for some reason. The availability of whole books from the Wikipedia Library was a surprise and very useful. — Jts1882 | talk 06:44, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
- @Plantdrew: There are a couple of resources you might find useful for working on rays:
- Rays of the World. There is a generous previous on Googlebooks, but you can access the whole book through the loan system at Internet Archive
- Chondrichthyan Tree of Life (interactive species level phylogeny)
- — Jts1882 | talk 16:44, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
- @Jts1882:, thanks. The archived link you found isn't working for me, but I did get a copy of the full text through the Wikipedia Library, so I don't need the summary classification. I've only just begun to think to check the Wikipedia Library when I run into a paywalled journal article I want to access, and certainly haven't thought about checking there for books. I was planning on working on rays (Batoidea), but am feeling pretty discouraged by the number differences between Wikipedia and FOTW5 (FOTW5 uses a different name/rank for the taxon of the rays themselves, and there are various differences in the families recognized). Plantdrew (talk) 21:41, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
- Even better, the book is available from the publisher via the Wikipedia Library: https://onlinelibrary-wiley-com.wikipedialibrary.idm.oclc.org/doi/book/10.1002/9781119174844 — Jts1882 | talk 12:52, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you. That is useful. I have taken onboard Chiswick Chap's comments, and your own, re Teleost that this is 7 years old now. Both FotW and Deepfin projects appear to have become moribund and, at the very least, we do not expect updates in the foreseeable. As I work on converting taxoboxes to Automatic Taxoboxes in fish articles, using FotW5 taxonomy , other editors frequently update their taxonomy with later schemes. These are usually in line with Catalog of Fishes and I wonder if the project should base its taxonomy on that resource. Admittedly, it may be less stable but it is available online. Quetzal1964 (talk) 13:01, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
- Joseph Nelson died in 2011 and the 5th edition was finished by Terry Grand and Mark Wilson (he invited them as co-authors before he died). They continued Nelson's conservative view to taxonomy for the 5th edition classification, so the incorporation of molecular insights was incomplete. I suspect their will be no 6th edition and that if there is one the character will change. I still have some hope that Deepfin will come out with a 5th edition. The grant may have finished but the authors are still active researchers. Eschmeyer's Catalog of Fishes is another possibility, although they don't go above class. I don't know how often their supraordinal classification is updated; I suspect not that often as the focus is on names of species. Given the coordination between CoF and Fishbase it would give a sound basis to follow from species upwards. — Jts1882 | talk 13:28, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
- I've being looking at the Catalog of Fishes classification and have a few comments:
- Above family it only deals with orders and classes so is of limited use for higher level classification.
- It is updated periodically. I'm not sure what classification was the original source, but they do update the orders. Looking at some archives, the order sequence changes over the years and new orders are introduced (e.g. Galaxiiformes and Lepidogalaxiiformes from Osmeriformes, Cichliformes from Labroidei) or orders relegated (e.g. Scorpaeniformes).
- The main changes seems to be at family and subfamily level. Families are moved between orders or suborders (e.g. in "Perciforms"), new families and subfamilies are introduced, etc. Three families described in 2022 are included. This seems coordinated with Fishbase.
- The current advice at WP:FISH is "taxonomy at the level of genera and species should follow FishBase" and higher level classification should follow FotW5. I think there would be a good case for changing the advice to also use FishBase and CoL for families and subfamilies. I'm still undecided for supraordinal classification. Deepfin seems a better choice but as discussed above it is now seven years old. There is an interesting new classification of Percomorphs from Thomas Near (doi:10.1146/annurev-ecolsys-122120-122554) with some major lumping of orders (especially compared to Deepfin), but it is tucked away in Supplementary materials rather than published as a new taxonomy. In the phylogenetic analysis (doi:10.1038/s41559-022-01801-3), there is good convergence with Deepfin, in which families belong to which groups and in the relationships between the groups, but with very differently ranked names for the same groups (e.g. Deepfin's order Cyprinodontiformes is superfamily Cyprinodontoidea in suborder Atherinoidei and order Blenniiformes in Near's classification). A formal publication of this taxonomy would be helpful. — Jts1882 | talk 14:10, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
- @Plantdrew: I've now managed to find an archived copy of the FotW5 classification: FotW5Classification.pdf — Jts1882 | talk 08:58, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
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Lives edit
Unicornfish are fish and fish are animals. Animals are only animated while they "live". I don't exactly have a problem with "occurs", either, I just think it's more appropriate for events. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:57, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
- InedibleHulk Thanks for the comment. I am aware of the animal nature of unicornfish, believe it or not, I have some background in biology. In my experience we do not usually talk of an animal living in a place. It's not that it would be wrong to do so but the tendency is to say "is found", "has been recorded" or "occurs". I am not sure why that is but it may be that using "lives" is too definite. "Adam lives in Glasgow", however, Adam might live in Glasgow but he takes the train to Edinburgh to work every week day, so he is found or occurs in Edinburgh too, and all the places in between, albeit briefly. Lives is also used to describe longevity and so may be regarded as ambiguous. Occurs, in the sense used in describing species distribution, means "is found" rather than "takes place", here is a definition "exist or be found to be present in a place or under a particular set of conditions". Quetzal1964 (talk) 08:12, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
- You're welcome. What you say does sound like something a biologist might say, and it makes sense if I put on my (barely apprentice-like) biologist hat. I've found (and changed) a good number of "is found in"s over the years, probably written by you or those on your level. When I'm only "the man on the street", not wearing a hat, "lives" just seems like plain English to me. It's a fine balancing act we attempt here, between dumbing it down and keeping it scientific. Thanks for the insight! InedibleHulk (talk) 08:23, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
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Women in Red 8th Anniversary |
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WikiProject Tree of Life Newsletter Issue 21 edit
- August 2023—Issue 021
- Tree of Life
- Welcome to the Tree of Life newsletter!
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New contest!
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This month has seen an incredible amount of activity creating high quality content, with 3 FAs, 3 FACs, and a veritable flood of GAs and GANs, not to mention the FLs and FLCs. To help maintain this high level of activity going forward, WikiProject Tree of Life is starting a new monthly rolling contest, inspired by the contest run by WikiProject Military History. This contest should hopefully help incentivize editors to contribute in ways that are less daunting than writing articles that are GA and FA-quality. Even improving articles from stub to start class, or helping other editors by reviewing their work at GAN, FAC, or FLC, gets you points, with bonus points for articles with especially high page views. Make sure to participate in any way you can, and help improve the 'pedia while having fun and winning Barnstars! |
August DYKs
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 Two salt marsh snakes  Blackburnian warbler
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Contest? edit
Hello, I noticed you've been working a lot on Tree of Life related articles in the past month; maybe you'd like to note your contributions at the Tree of Life Contest? AryKun (talk) 15:31, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
- AryKun Okay Quetzal1964 (talk) 19:27, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
Women in Red October 2023 edit
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WikiProject Tree of Life Newsletter Issue 22 edit
- September 2023—Issue 022
- Tree of Life
- Welcome to the Tree of Life newsletter!
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Contest results
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The first edition of our new monthly contest had perhaps a little less participation than I hoped for, but it still resulted in a huge amount of content work, mainly focussed on de-stubbing articles on little-known species, although we did also see two GAs for Holozoa and Hypericum perforatum. Overall, over 60 articles were improved, with most going from stubs or redlinks to fully fleshed out articles. The winner this month was Simongraham, who improved 21 articles about spiders, mainly to B and C class, and racked up 70 points, over twice the next highest. Hopefully, we'll continue to see such great work next month, with even more participants and even more articles improved.
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September DYKs
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 Republicopteron douseae fossil  Male Phallichthys fish  Mimodactylus reconstruction  Adult ashy flycatcher
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Barnstar for you! edit
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The Stub Barnstar | |
| Brilliant work expanding all those fish stubs! AryKun (talk) 17:45, 2 October 2023 (UTC) |
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Tree of Life Contest edit
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Barn Owl Barnstar | |
| Congratulations on winning the second edition of the Tree of Life Monthly Rolling Contest! Great work expanding all of those stubs and redirects on marine fish into nice, comprehensive articles. 43 articles in a month is absolutely insane, and I'd like to let you know that your work is greatly appreciated. AryKun (talk) 12:44, 1 November 2023 (UTC) |
WikiProject Tree of Life Newsletter Issue 23 edit
- October 2023—Issue 023
- Tree of Life
- Welcome to the Tree of Life newsletter!
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Contest results
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The second edition of our monthly contest was even better than the last month, with 80 articles improved spanning the entire tree of life. The winner this month was Quetzal1964, who contributed to 47 articles, mainly relating to marine fish, and racked up 81 points in the process. In second place was simongraham, who got 60 points from 14 articles on various species of jumping spiders. simongraham is still at the top of our overall standings, with 130 points, and Quetzal1964's close behind on 108. The November edition of the contest is now open: feel free to drop by and participate if you work on any TOL-related articles this month. |
October DYKs
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_(20536251169).jpg) Illustration of swordtail mollies
 Lycorma meliae
 Illustrations of the front foot (A) and hind foot (B) of Diplobune quercyi
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- Recent research: How English Wikipedia drove out fringe editors over two decades
- Featured content: Like putting a golf course in a historic site.
- Traffic report: Cricket jumpscare
Disambiguation link notification for November 19 edit
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Pentapodus emeryii, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Barrow Island.
(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:09, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
The Signpost: 20 November 2023 edit
- In the media: Propaganda and photos, lunatics and a lunar backup
- News and notes: Update on Wikimedia's financial health
- Traffic report: If it bleeds, it leads
- Recent research: Canceling disputes as the real function of ArbCom
- Wikimania: Wikimania 2024 scholarships
Women in Red December 2023 edit
Tip of the month:
Other ways to participate:
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--Lajmmoore (talk) 20:24, 27 November 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging
ArbCom 2023 Elections voter message edit
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Tree of Life Contest edit
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Barn Owl Barnstar | |
| Congratulations on winning the third edition of the Tree of Life Monthly Rolling Contest! The rate at which you manage to expand all those fish articles truly is incredible, well done. AryKun (talk) 13:17, 1 December 2023 (UTC) |
WikiProject Tree of Life Newsletter Issue 24 edit
- November 2023—Issue 024
- Tree of Life
- Welcome to the Tree of Life newsletter!
Contest results
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The third edition of our monthly contest saw Quetzal1964 win for the second month in a row, scoring 68 points from 39 articles about a variety of marine fishes. In second place for the month is Olmagon, who scored 45 points from 10 articles on extinct crustaceans and geckoes. In the overall standings, Quetzal1964 leapfrogged over simongraham into first place, with 176 points from 109 articles; simongraham is now in second place with 136 points from 37 articles. The December edition of the contest is now open: feel free to drop by and participate if you work on any TOL-related articles this month. |
New newsletter!
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Now, this newsletter is technically not new, but I have only recently become aware of its existence and am only a month late, so it still counts. Wikiproject Fungi's Lichen task force has a new newsletter that is very nicely formatted and also features much better writing than this newsletter. Anyone interested in receiving the newsletter can add their name here. |
November DYKs
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 A bacterium that thrives in the deep ocean
 Georges Cuvier's reconstruction of Anoplotherium commune
 Paroedura maingoka
 Field of Wyethia amplexicaulis in bloom
.jpg) An adult dwarf pufferfish
,_El-Al_river_(cropped).jpg) Adult Balkan terrapin
 Planocarina marginata, a hyalospheniid amoeba
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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:45, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
Intermediate egret edit
A discussion about your proposed move has been started at Talk:Intermediate egret. - Station1 (talk) 19:05, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
The Signpost: 4 December 2023 edit
- In the media: Turmoil on Hebrew Wikipedia, grave dancing, Olga's impact and inspiring Bhutanese nuns
- Disinformation report: "Wikipedia and the assault on history"
- Comix: Bold comics for a new age
- Essay: I am going to die
- Featured content: Real gangsters move in silence
- Traffic report: And it's hard to watch some cricket, in the cold November Rain
- Humour: Mandy Rice-Davies Applies
Seasons Greetings! edit
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Hello there, thanks for all of your contributions to Wikipedia! Wishing you a Very Merry Christmas and here's to a happy and productive 2024! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:13, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
The Signpost: 24 December 2023 edit
- Special report: Did the Chinese Communist Party send astroturfers to sabotage a hacktivist's Wikipedia article?
- News and notes: The Italian Public Domain wars continue, Wikimedia RU set to dissolve, and a recap of WLM 2023
- In the media: Consider the humble fork
- Discussion report: Arabic Wikipedia blackout; Wikimedians discuss SpongeBob, copyrights, and AI
- In focus: Liquidation of Wikimedia RU
- Technology report: Dark mode is coming
- Recent research: "LLMs Know More, Hallucinate Less" with Wikidata
- Gallery: A feast of holidays and carols
- Comix: Lollus lmaois 200C tincture
- Crossword: when the crossword is sus
- Traffic report: What's the big deal? I'm an animal!
- From the editor: A piccy iz worth OVAR 9000!!!11oneone! wordz ^_^
- Humour: Guess the joke contest
Women in Red January 2024 edit
Announcement
Tip of the month:
Other ways to participate:
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--Lajmmoore (talk) 20:18, 28 December 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging
WikiProject Tree of Life Newsletter Issue 25 edit
- December 2023—Issue 025
- Tree of Life
- Welcome to the Tree of Life newsletter!
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Contest results
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And so ends the fourth edition of the monthly rolling contest, as well as the 2023 Tree of Life Contest as a whole. This month saw simongraham win with a very impressive 120 points from 27 articles. Quetzal1964 was second with 74 points from 37 articles. The annual contest was a close race between simongraham and Quetzal1964; simongraham won first place with 256 points from 64 articles, and Quetzal1964 was second with 250 points from 146 articles. Snoteleks was third with 79 points from 33 articles. Congratulations to everyone who won this year and my gratitude to everyone else who helped raise the quality of articles in our little corner of Wikipedia this year. Additionally, a very Happy New Year to everyone in the project and here's looking forward to continuing our good work in 2024! |
December DYKs
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.jpg) Snowy plover with chicks
.jpg) Bofedales in the foreground
.jpg) Adult female Varroa mite
 Dennstaedtia christophelii fossil frond
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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:57, 1 January 2024 (UTC) {{Talk archive}