User talk:Otr500/Archive 1
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
Welcome to MILHIST
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Hello and welcome to the Military history WikiProject! As you may have guessed, we're a group of editors working to improve Wikipedia's coverage of topics related to military history. A few features that you might find helpful:
If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask any of the project coordinators or any other experienced member of the project, and we'll be happy to help you. Again, welcome, and we are looking forward to seeing you around! Woody (talk) 16:59, 26 April 2011 (UTC) Thank you. Otr500 (talk) 17:28, 27 April 2011 (UTC) |
The Bugle 2011
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The Bugle: Issue LXV, July 2011
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The Bugle 2012
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GOCE July 2012 (Bugle) Copy Edit Drive
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. The Bugle: Issue LXX, January 2012
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. The Bugle: Issue LXXI, February 2012
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Venting
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ANI notice on MosesSince you commented on earlier discussions of this subject, you can hopefully add some input to this ANI on Moses. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 20:35, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
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Duplication
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Reasons some should not editBelow are examples of how not to have a NPOV;
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ANI on Moses
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DuplicationHi. I noticed a fair amount of duplication in this post you made. Would you mind refactoring it? Thanks! — Jeff G. ツ 17:30, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
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DYK for La. hwy 975
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My takeI have my beliefs just as everyone else. I am passionate concerning how and why I believe the way I do. Although lacking in formal education I believe my informal education, being somewhat equal to the lower echelon of the adequately papered intellectuals, except maybe lacking a little finesse, to be at least rounded enough to sustain my need to search for knowledge. I try to be thorough in research and my quest to obtain knowledge is only matched by my intentions to be productive in life. I do have the propensity to appear "dry" in my discussions but, as I am lighthearted in person, I strive to be dedicated to factual information. Any perceived "dryness" is unintentional but I will not hasten to be bold when called for.
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Unblock
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DYK for Louisiana Highway 975
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Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg
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In Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg you removed the {{fictionrefs}} tag. Whoever put that tag in did so incorrectly as it is only to be used in wikiarticles about works of fiction. The more appropriate tag to have used would have been {{In popular culture}}, which reads:Do you think that, had that one been the one used, it might still apply? Thanks! — SpikeToronto 20:33, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
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LSU Ambassador invitation
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Wikipedia Campus Ambassadors wanted at LSUHi! I'm leaving you this message because you are listed as a Wikipedian in Louisiana. The Wikipedia Ambassador Program is currently looking for Campus Ambassadors to help with Wikipedia assignments at Louisiana State University, which will be participating in the Public Policy Initiative for the Spring 2011 semester. The role of Campus Ambassadors will be to provide face-to-face training and support for students on Wikipedia-related skills (how to edit articles, how to add references, etc.). This includes doing in-class presentations, running workshops and labs, possibly holding office hours, and in general providing in-person mentorship for students. Prior Wikipedia skills are not required for the role, as training will be provided for all Campus Ambassadors (although, of course, being an experienced editor is a plus). If you live near Baton Rouge and you are interested in being a Wikipedia Campus Ambassador, or know someone else from the area who might be, please email me or leave a message on my talk page.--Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 17:14, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
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User page error
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Re: your userpageHi there. Just stumbled onto your page in my Wayward Wikipedia Wandering ;). I noticed in the section titled "Interests" you mention being a "WikiInfant" and that you "made these words up". I found this amusing because (and you may be surprised at the coincidence) there already existed a page which mentions these same words and describes them tongue-in-cheek as various 'stages' in a Wikipedian's 'editing career'. Have a look at Wikipedia:Seven Ages of Wikipedians and see which you best classify as. ;) -- Ϫ 14:31, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
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WPUS invitation
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Invitation to join WikiProject United States
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Claus Stauffenberg talk
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Talkback: Claus von StauffenbergHello, Otr500. You have new messages at Talk:Claus von Stauffenberg. — SpikeToronto 06:58, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
Message added 06:58, 18 January 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template. |
Find a Grave comments
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Comments made about Find a Grave...Hi, I saw your notice that you were leaving but I am taking the chance that you will pop in to see this message. I was very impressed with your research and comments about this site. I have commented a couple times to what you have said but I would like to bring to your attentions specifically my last few comments here. I go on to suggest that we should go and try to have the site blacklisted. I am hoping you will see and be able to give some more input on what I am recommending. I hope to see you there and thank you for such a wonderful comments about what you found. --CrohnieGalTalk 11:28, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
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Taken off talk page
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New WikiProject United States Newsletter: February 2011 editionStarting with the February 2011 issue WikiProject United States has established a newsletter to inform anyone interested in United States related topics of the latest changes. This newsletter will not only discuss issues relating to WikiProject United States but also:
You may read or assist in writing the newsletter, subscribe, unsubscribe or change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you by following this link. If you have an idea for improving the newsletter please leave a message on my talk page or the Newsletters talk page. --Kumioko (talk) 20:45, 4 February 2011 (UTC) |
Skivington
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Good spot! That's probably been sitting there a while! GedUK 11:08, 6 February 2011 (UTC) |
Mileva Maric
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Mileva Maric Talk page: Notes and referencesOtr500: I appreciate the point you make in the new section "Notes and references" on the Mileva Maric Talk page, but it involves quite a lot of work, especially for someone who has no idea (without researching the appropriate Wikipedia instructions) how to set about condensing repeated citations. Anyway, from a personal point of view, although I have contributed to the Mileva Maric page, at the moment I am too busy to take on this task. If you can't do it, we can only hope someone else will notice your new comment and take the appropriate action. Esterson (talk) 11:26, 9 February 2011 (UTC) |
John Rutledge
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So we are quite clear and there is no misunderstanding, I did WP:undo one of your prior versions, but I never "WP:reverted" it. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 23:17, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
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Leaking spam
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Please consider what your statements about the intent of people really mean...Taking this off the discussion page.... WP:NPA is a pretty important policy. You have made statements about the intent of people working on the Find-A-Grave project, claiming - just about - that they intend to do harm to Wikipedia. It'pretty hard to not read you as making statements about my intentions when I'm a major contributor on that project - statements that I feel are attacks on my integrity as a Wikipedian. Please - think carefully about what you're saying. And if it's what you intend to say .... we have a problem. --Alvestrand (talk) 16:56, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
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WPUS newsletter
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You're leaking spamSee what you did there. Palosirkka (talk) 12:43, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
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Preference changes
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Notification: changes to "Mark my edits as minor by default" preferenceHello there. This is an automated message to tell you about the gradual phasing out of the preference entitled "Mark all edits minor by default", which you currently have (or very recently had) enabled. On 13 March 2011, this preference was hidden from the user preferences screen as part of efforts to prevent its accidental misuse (consensus discussion). This had the effect of locking users in to their existing preference, which, in your case, was For established users such as yourself there is a workaround available involving custom JavaScript. If you are familiar with the contents of WP:MINOR, and believe that it is still beneficial to the encyclopedia to have all your edits marked as such by default, then this discussion will give you the details you need to continue with this functionality indefinitely. If you have any problems, feel free to drop me a note. Thank you for your understanding and happy editing :) Editing on behalf of User:Jarry1250, LivingBot (talk) 18:15, 14 March 2011 (UTC) |
Find a Grave
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Please seePlease see Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:External links/Perennial websites. The essay has apparently been nominated for deletion in response to the long comment you posted there earlier this week. WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:23, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
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Suggested articles to edit
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Welcome
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Welcome roadfan
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Welcome, roadfan!Hello, Otr500, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like this place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:
Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place If you are interested, there is already a community of users who are roadfans or who edit articles about roads, just like you! Stop by any of these WikiProjects — WP:HWY (worldwide), WP:CRWP (Canada), WP:INR (India), WP:UKRD (United Kingdom), or WP:USRD (United States) — and contribute. There is a wealth of information and resources for creating a great article. If you have questions about any of these WikiProjects, you can ask on each project's talk page, or you can ask me! If you like communicating through IRC, feel free to ask questions at #wikipedia-en-roads as well. Here, there are several editors who are willing to answer your questions. For more information, see WP:HWY/IRC. Again, welcome! Rschen7754 18:41, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
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Edits to this page
I would like to ask that comments to this page conform to the following style as examples; First person to comment with no indentions.
- Second person to comment like this.
- Third person to comment like this.
- Fourth person to comment like this.
- Third person to comment like this.
- Second person with additional comments.
- Fourth person with additional comments.
- This provides a better flow in comments and extended comments do not end up against the right side. Otr500 (talk) 09:56, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
My take
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Recent Find a Grave editsI just wanted to let you know that I reverted a couple of your recent edits of removing Find a Grave entries. The only ones I reverted either:
I also noticed a couple were B class or better and I will attempt to find a reference. If I cannot I will have to downgrade the articles due to a lack of sourcing of the information. Also, the link you provided on the External links talk page showed a list of articles with the Find a Grave link but there are a lot of images on that list as well. Is it your intention to submit these images for deletion since they are derived from what you perceive to be an "unreliable source"? Surprising as this might be I do not think we should be using images from Find a Grave so if that is your intention I might support you on that one. --Kumioko (talk) 15:10, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
I saw the entry you made and replaced the information with the information available although it was via Find a Grave. I also appreciate you doing that research on the Medal of Honor recipients and getting the images of the graves would be great and it would be good to get them and add them to the articles but it still doesn't fix the sourcing problem. We can't, as far as I know, use an image as a source although we can use it as corroboration when we link to a site or source that contains the image. Even if we could I am not sure that it wouldn't breach the original research criteria. Adding it to the find a Grave site gets around that just as if an author added Original research to a book. --Kumioko (talk) 14:23, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
Thats interesting I never knew about that one that might be an option. I'm not sure if everyone would interpret it that way and I'm still not sure it wouldn't constitute original research but its worth looking into thanks. --Kumioko (talk) 21:43, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
Anthony T. KahoʻohanohanoI noticed the cite check flag you dropped. could I ask which reference you are questioning so I can fix it? --Kumioko (talk) 21:40, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
April 2011 Newsletter for WikiProject United StatesThe April 2011 issue of the WikiProject United States newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. TalkbackHello, Otr500. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2011 April 10.
Message added 19:18, 10 April 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template. SchuminWeb (Talk) 19:18, 10 April 2011 (UTC) May 2011 Newsletter for WikiProject United StatesThe May 2011 issue of the WikiProject United States newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. Removal of find a graveI noticed that you removed Find a Grave from a couple of articles that were on my watchlist and wanted to let you know I just reverted a couple. If there is a better reference of the information then I agree, by all means replace the find a grave link but removing it from articles with only 2 links or causing an article to be unreferenced (though by it a weak reference) is not, IMO, a good way to improve the pedia. --Kumioko (talk) 03:10, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
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Problem edit
Hi, can you take another look at this edit it appears to have added some characters to the end of reference 3. Is it some code for the publication or just a slip of the finger? Keith D (talk) 18:00, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you so very much. I am still laughing at that slip. I was getting my grandson something to eat and the only thing I can figure is that he wanted to help edit. Otr500 (talk) 20:00, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
Guy Gabledon
I just noticed the edit you made to Guy Gabeldon removing the retrieved as dates from the external links. I am not going to revert it but I do not think that this edit was helpful. Regardless of what the "Standard" is for external links I have found that it is frequently helpful to have the retireved date on links (citation or otherwise) especially when those links are using the archiveurl parameters and the rules do allow it. I also think that the comment you left on the talk page was meant for another article. Cheers and happy editing. --Kumioko (talk) 15:24, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
- Have to agree with Kumioko on this one. In regard to PFC Guy Gabledon MoH nomination, I can't understand it either, I believe that it is all politics. I have worked with various organizations to have his medal upgraded to the MoH, I even recently wrote to Pre. Obama, but nothing so far. Another case that comes to mind is that of Maj. Herman Bottcher. I once spoke to two former soldiers who served in different units with him and they both agreed that Bottcher was the bravest man that they ever knew. Tony the Marine (talk) 16:33, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
- I can see your point Kumioko. Would I be correct that these dates would have no actual importance to the casual reader? Using archiveurl parameters while still having some form of article consistency, and at the same time following guidelines that appear to have consensus since not being contested, could be accomplished using "hidden comments" that would suffice to satisfy all. We can go this route, unless you and Tony have valid reasoning in having these dates visible on the article page, in which case we can seek a guideline change. I added back the dates per above, if I did it correctly, so tell me what you think? Otr500 (talk) 02:31, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
- I suppose that would be ok although I don't think I would invest much time in going through the articles to make the dates into hidden comments. They really don't harm anything by being there. --Kumioko (talk) 03:07, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
- It is actually the first article that I recall seeing this on. I don't intend on looking for articles formatted as such but if I run across any I may do this. You are right and it probably doesn't really hurt anything ----but---- it is in the guidelines. I realize that this may not be that important to some but it is just the way I am.
- When I make edits I look for potential improvements that will enhance the article. When there are guidelines I really try to observe them. Articles I start I have resolved to begin at start and not stub class when possible and I do not want to begin or even work on articles that I think are never going to be anything but a stub. This does not mean I will not make mistakes as that will be a given, but I really think, even though consensus can actually change daily, that some form of consistency does make a better encyclopedia. I do like "retrieval dates", and especially "access dates" that are somewhat current, as this means someone followed a link and this means it is obviously a good one. Otr500 (talk) 03:31, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
June 2011 Newsletter for WikiProject United States
The June 2011 issue of the WikiProject United States newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
"African American" vs. "African-American" vs. "African–American"
The phrase "African American" (with no hyphen) is a noun. The phrase "African-American" (with a hyphen) is an adjective. In the past, there has been some confusion in terms of naming Wikipedia articles, but I think they've been straightened out for the most part.
Nobody should be confused by "African-American" (with a hyphen) into thinking it has anything to do with relations between Africa and America. That would be signified by "African–American" (with an en-dash).
If you have a problem with Wikipedia's long-standing naming convention concerning African Americans, please start a centralized discussion instead of leaving similar messages on the Talk pages of many articles. Thank you. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 03:42, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
- Thank you for your reply and advice. I do not have a problem with any naming convention of course I really didn't know there was one concerning African Americans. I guess it just takes some figuring out; "African-American naming convention", and "the naming convention concerning African Americans". So where would African American Civil War Memorial place in all of this?
- I have somewhat of a different view. I have Irish ancestry but regardless of that I am American. To me, no matter what the sentence placement, I prefer to use Irish-American when the need arises. Although only a vague hope it would be a monumental time when there would be less need (other than historic) to micro define ethnic groups, that are all considered American, and to eradicate ethnocentrism. Concerning your advice I will reply that there are several reasons I did what I did that is certainly acceptable by Wikipedia policies and guidelines. I need not go any farther because your reply was sufficient to cover my questions and or concerns. There is a discussion going on at WP:Manual of Style#dash drafting. Otr500 (talk) 06:21, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
No solution
- Just when someone makes sense of something and appears to know what is going on a bomb is dropped. I thought what Shabazz said was valid, although there was no reference as to where the information was obtained, so I referenced this (here);
- Concerning titles please comment on these quotes;
- "The phrase "African American" (with no hyphen) is a noun. The phrase "African-American" (with a hyphen) is an adjective. In the past, there has been some confusion in terms of naming Wikipedia articles, but I think they've been straightened out for the most part."
- "Nobody should be confused by "African-American" (with a hyphen) into thinking it has anything to do with relations between Africa and America. That would be signified by "African–American" (with an en-dash)." Otr500 (talk) 8:54 am, 29 May 2011, Sunday (14 days ago) (UTC−5)
- This actually made sense but a reply indicates that it is false meaning the whole discussion was flawed especially since it appears not one person has a real idea what should be, or is an appropriate us of hyphen, en-dashes, or en-dashes. The reply was;
- Neither is discussing the English language as it actually exists anywhere. Both are efforts to create a dogmatic Newspeak, and if both are genuine quotes from our talk pages (neither shows up on searching), the editor responsible should be ignored until he goes to play on the Newspeak Wikipedia, with its much simpler Manual of Style: "Hyphens are ungood." Septentrionalis PMAnderson 12:44 pm, 29 May 2011, Sunday (13 days ago) (UTC−5)
- So much for figuring things out and certainly for "...but I think they've been straightened out for the most part." Otr500 (talk) 09:12, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
US National Archives collaboration
United States National Archives WikiProject | |
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List of United States Military Academy alumni (Union Army)
Hello! In this edit to List of United States Military Academy alumni (Union Army), you added a ref name of "Chief of Ordnance" with two new entries on the list, but no source was included. Could you revisit the article and add the source you intended? Thanks~ - Salamurai (talk) 07:29, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks, sorry for the delay but worked 107 hours so have been busy. If not called out I will look at this tomorrow because I do see I also need to correct the box. Otr500 (talk) 07:00, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
- Done and repaired another while I was at it. Otr500 (talk) 23:15, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
July 2011 Newsletter for WikiProject United States
The July 2011 issue of the WikiProject United States newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
Stub tags
When adding a stub tag to an article such as Populus heterophylla, please remember to put it at the end after everything except inter-wiki links (per WP:LAYOUT): it saves the time of the stub-sorter who otherwise has to move the tag to the right place while stub-sorting it. Thanks. PamD (talk) 08:11, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
- Thanks. Otr500 (talk) 00:02, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
Luis Barbero
Hi Otr500. I've replied on the talkpage of Luis Barbero regarding the issues you raised. Hope this helps! Thanks. Lugnuts (talk) 11:36, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
September 2011 Newsletter for WikiProject United States
The September 2011 issue of the WikiProject United States newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
Thanks...
...for updating the EOBR article. I was planning on expanding it but I started driving local and got burnt out on article editing and as you can see it has been sitting around for years with no work. --ErgoSum•talk•trib 00:03, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well thank you. I plan to do more on several others but worked 89 hours last week. After 17 years I sort of went local, in the oilfield industry, but actually get paid more when I don't drive. Stand-by time, with oilfield exemptions and a 24 hour restart, make it nice. Otr500 (talk) 00:11, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
Disambiguation link notifications
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December 2011 Newsletter for WikiProject United StatesThe December 2011 issue of the WikiProject United States newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. |
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Military Historian of the Year
Nominations for the "Military Historian of the Year" for 2011 are now open. If you would like to nominate an editor for this award, please do so here. Voting will open on 22 January and run for seven days. Thanks! On behalf of the coordinators, Nick-D (talk) and Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 00:00, 16 January 2012 (UTC) You were sent this message because you are a listed as a member of the Military history WikiProject.
Reliable Source Response
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Reliable Source ResponseI wanted to personally thank you for responding to my message on the reliable source noticeboard. I'm new to Wikipedia, and I'll take your suggestions to heart as I learn the ropes. I do contend that the value of International Futures is beyond a mere interesting bit of trivia. Policy is made through calculated analysis of potential futures, and this model is the largest integrated model in the world, spanning more issue areas than any other in the world. That being said, I appreciate your opinion. I do have one further question that you may be able to help with. As I mentioned in my first message, I was directed to the noticeboard to seek consensus at the suggestion of another seasoned veteran of Wikipedia. Ultimately, is there a listing of reliable sources if the source does achieve consensus? Is there a next step? Thanks again for taking the time to work with me. (Shredder2012 (talk) 15:54, 24 January 2012 (UTC))
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USRD WikiProject Newsletter, Winter 2012
Volume 5, Issue 1 • Winter 2011 • About the Newsletter | ||
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The Bugle: Issue LXXIV, May 2012
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The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 15:11, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
The Bugle: Issue LXXVI, July 2012
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The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 09:41, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
Disambiguation link notification for August 20, 2012
Hi. When you recently edited Transportation Security Administration, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page The Young Turks (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
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Disambiguation link notification for August 28, 2012
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Transportation Security Administration, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Japanese and Federal (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
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The Bugle: Issue LXXVII, August 2012
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The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 01:07, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
Military history coordinator election
The Military history WikiProject has started its 2012 project coordinator election process, where we will select a team of coordinators to organize the project over the coming year. If you would like to be considered as a candidate, please submit your nomination by 14 September. If you have any questions, do not hesitate to contact one of the current coordinators on their talk page. This message was delivered here because you are a member of the Military history WikiProject. – Military history coordinators (about the project • what coordinators do) 09:39, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
The Bugle: Issue LXXVIII, September 2012
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The Bugle: Issue LXXIX, October 2012
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The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
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The Bugle: Issue LXXX, November 2012
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Decemmber 8 - Wikipedia Loves Libraries Seattle - You're invited | |
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Center Line: US roads
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The Bugle: Issue LXXXI, December 2012
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. |
The Bugle 2013
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The Center Line: U.S. Roads WikiProject Newsletter, Winter 2013
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