User talk:Coretheapple/Archive6

DYK for My Italian Secret: The Forgotten Heroes

 — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:46, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Shaygan_Kheradpir

I thought you may be interested in a discussion here. The page has been plagued by astroturfing accounts, the most active of which has just been blocked at SPI, and it would be useful to get a response from an actual disinterested editor; that is if I'm not annoying you yet. CorporateM (Talk) 19:10, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Oh not at all. Coretheapple (talk) 19:15, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

It's hard to tell what people are saying on the internet sometimes. I am not annoying you at all, or you are not interested in the page at all? ::BTW - I just got the green light for the Public Storage article and am knee-deep in working on a draft for that page. I'm a bit more knowledgable on it and can more confidently answer any questions at this point. CorporateM (Talk) 22:42, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Not a problem. Glad to help. Coretheapple (talk) 00:19, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Cool, FYI - this sock network is most likely affiliated with the same one discussed in the Signpost recently with Sony. The account mentioned as their covert paid editor, MonsterMike, previously edited this page. He convinced @FreeRangeFrog: to restore some of the awards on the page, though I don't think FreeRange realized at the time that he was a covert paid editor. I didn't have enough evidence to connect the socks to MonsterMike though, which is why I submitted an SPI on Intchar* and Paul instead, which led to a successful block of the Intchar* account, but they are just throwaway accounts. All these accounts are making it look like I'm the one POV pushing here, because people don't know they are actually part of the same covertly sponsored sock network. You can imagine who wins in a battle between a "cautious" COI editor and the 50 cent party. Thanks for letting me vent. ;-) CorporateM (Talk) 17:03, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

@CorporateM: Oh wow. I'm starting to really dislike these stealth COI people more and more every day. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 18:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

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Advocacy Ducks

Hi, Core - I pinged you from the TP, but not sure if you got the ping. Since you participated in the discussions of the prior essays, I was hoping you would provide input regarding the following survey before we take it mainpage: User_talk:Atsme/sandbox_Advocacy_ducks#Preliminary community survey. Thanks - Atsme☯^Consult 02:26, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks I did see it. Coretheapple (talk) 12:35, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Question at Trustees election page

Core;

Please see this election question. I know you've complained about the BoT from time to time. Now is your chance to vote. All the best. Smallbones_(smalltalk) 14:57, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, that's a good question. I didn't even know there was an election to vote in. Coretheapple (talk) 14:59, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

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Diffs

It's helpful to provide diffs when you're referring to things another user said previously (or at least a link to the archived section). Calidum T|C 17:18, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

True. I provided diffs a link earlier but didn't do so again. Lazy! Have inserted. Coretheapple (talk) 17:23, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

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Yelp

Wasn't sure if you had an ongoing interest in the page, but I've pointed out a few problematic recent edits here where stock speculation sources were used and redundant information was added about the alleged practice of manipulating ratings for advertising. The Request Edit is almost a month old. CorporateM (Talk) 16:21, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Well all that financial mush that someone added definitely needs to go, and out it went. Not sure about the second point in your request. I'll take another look at it. Coretheapple (talk) 13:37, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Hi Core. Still no strong consensus I think about the use of columnists (see the archived discussion here, where @The Four Deuces: opposed their use) I was going to just leave a link to the RSN string on the Talk page, see what happens in a few months when a Request Edit reviewer comes by and leave it be with whatever they do, if that sounds ok to you. The press has a lot of anecdotes about individual small business owners and their allegations; I don't think we should include every anecdote individually, but the page basically looks pretty good and I have no plan to raise a big fuss over it.

BTW - do you still have an interest in the Heather Bresch page? I'm not sure what to do with this discussion, which amounts to "no consensus". Of course, any discussion that involves more than a couple editors typically does not have a clear consensus ;-) The article is much better, but still not that fair, given that the controversy is included prominently, but none of her accomplishments in pushing through legislation (her primary claim to notability) are.CorporateM (Talk) 19:41, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

I'll take a look at it. Coretheapple (talk) 22:52, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

I've moved this discussion to the bottom of my page (sometimes better, as ones above get archived). I think TFD is dead wrong and misreading policy. Reported columns are on a part with other news content of newspapers, and subject to the same editorial controls, assuming it is indeed at a reliable newspaper and the columnist is reputable, which needs to be dealt with on a case-by-case basis. In this instance, the Yelp material is by a notable columnnist at the LA Times. What TFD is talking about are columns of pure opinion. I didn't notice the discussion at the time as my contribs have become a little sporadic now and then. Coretheapple (talk) 16:01, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

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Infobox linking RfC

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Jean Griswold

Talk:Jean Griswold — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jarodkarns (talk • contribs) 18:32, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi! So I see that this article was deleted again because there is not enough proof that Jean Griswold is noteworthy, which is becoming rather frustrating. Would mention of this book, in which she was featured, help the depth of coverage that you mentioned? How much more supportive information is needed to improve the depth of coverage?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Jarodkarns (talk • contribs)

Since you are clearly here to promote a particular person, and not to improve the project, I would like to draw your attention to WP:COI, in particular the portion requiring persons paid by the subject of the article to declare their connection in an appropriate fashion, as required by the Wikimedia terms of use. Coretheapple (talk) 18:35, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

@Coretheapple: Alright. Where would be the appropriate location to declare my connection to Jean Griswold? I have no problem doing so according to WP:COI. It's a shame that people aren't able to read about the life of this woman, and I'm only trying to help push forward the discussion about her. How can we appoint an independent editor that qualifies as a contributor without COI? Jarodkarns (talk) 20:33, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

@Jarodkarns:The guidance you are looking for is situated here. Coretheapple (talk) 14:16, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

@Coretheapple: Is this sufficient here. I'm really not trying to be deceitful. I have no clue who created the original Jean Griswold page that got deleted the first time, but when I discovered that it was, I thought I could try creating a page backed by reliable sources. I understand the COI, but I'm unsure of where to go to make sure that the information on Jean Griswold is sourced correctly and accurately. I'm open to suggestions. I'm also interested in contributing to other topics after this one now that I'm starting to learn how this works. I'm really surprised by how difficult it is to contribute to wikipedia and the unwelcoming tone that it's editors seem to have in some instances, including this comment that seems sarcastic in nature and accusatory that I am in some fashion a sock puppet. I've never created a wikipedia account before and this one is under my real name, so I'm not sure how that qualifies as a sock. Jarodkarns (talk) 14:50, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Yes, that is sufficient disclosure. As an employee of the subject you should not be creating articles about this person and editing the article directly. Coretheapple (talk) 14:54, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

@Coretheapple: Thank you. I honestly didn't think it was going to be an issue. Jean Griswold sold the company about 6 years ago and no longer is involved with the business. Me editing the article on Jean Griswold is a little different then me going out and creating an article directly about Griswold Home Care. Since Jean is no longer tied to the company, I didn't think it would be an issue. Since we still use her name for the business though, I can see how there is a COI. How can I make sure other editors help contribute to the page and sources in order to keep it from being deleted?. Jarodkarns (talk) 15:18, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

• Your last edit replaces the link/story I cited with some random press release. I have posted a cut-and-paste of the article I was citing on the article's talk page. Kindly replace the proper citation in the article. I am not claiming that this is the nation's oldest home care company. i am only claiming that a McClatchy paper said it was. It is not an inherently implausible claim, since this is the era in which home care began, and many of the largest companies are considerably younger than this one. I am not unhappy with the working currently in the article. The claim originated with the company. But I do not care to be accused of citing a press release when I cited a ndews article, nor is it right to remove a valid citation.E.M.Gregory (talk) 17:23, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

I'm not going to waste any more time explaining what you know yourself, which is that the "McClatchy article" is a press release that ran, word-for-word, in another publication that is on the web. A comparison of the web version and the ProQuest version shows that they are identical. They are also in the format of a press release. You are misrepresenting a press release as an article, and also I suggest that you read WP:DE because it describes your behavior. Coretheapple (talk) 18:01, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

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Help please

Core, would you be interested in reviewing an article I have (mostly) written with the idea of making it a GA or/and a DYK? The article is Minnehaha Falls. Thanks. Gandydancer (talk) 18:17, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

OK I will take a look. But first I have to detoxify from the rampant bullshit that has occupied me for the past day or so. Coretheapple (talk) 19:49, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

@Gandydancer: The article looks fine, clearly DYK material and I've seen a lot worse GA articles. Do you have any specific concerns? Coretheapple (talk) 12:35, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

No, nothing specific - I was just wondering if you thought it looked more or less GA-ready. Petra got a bunch of new photos and they've been added and I've fixed anything that I thought may need fixin'. Would you have interest/time to do the review? If yes, would I need to add it to the list or would you just go ahead and do it? BTW, thanks for the good work you have been doing on the paid editing problem. Gandydancer (talk) 14:01, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Sure if it's nominated I can look at it. But keep in mind that I've never done a GA review before so I'd be groping around a little. Also my contributions are sporadic lately. Coretheapple (talk) 18:36, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

OK, how lucky for you then...such a wonderful chance for such a great learning experience! ;=) You do such great work yourself - I'm sure you'll do it quite well. I just nominated it so go ahead. Gandydancer (talk) 01:46, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Given the length and depth of the article (from a cursory review) I don't think it's going to be mnuch of a challenge. Coretheapple (talk) 14:44, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

I look forward for your review. Again, thanks for your interest. Gandydancer (talk) 14:46, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Well that was really an easy pass. The hardest part was figuring out what template to use! Coretheapple (talk) 15:24, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Some thoughts

While I monitor ANI and other boards as possible, I seldom feel the call to speak out or take action unless I feel I can be effective or at least somewhat thought-provoking. I think the one-two punch of your reasoned outrage and my call for !votes "smoked out" the party in question, as the timing of the response showed. I thank you for motivating my proposal to indef. In this case, I found the ArbCom intervention somewhat unusual, but effective if, as you noted, still a slap on the wrist compared to what would be the fate of a non-admin caught obviously socking at ANI.

In the aftermath, looking at the responses at the ArbCom noticeboard to my two comments and to your comment at the "idea lab,"I have decided to walk away from what appears to be unproductive conversation. In my experience, a discussion with an entrenched admin determined to defend their ongoing lifetime "perks" is similar to an "untouchable" arguing with a Brahmin: the status quo at Wikipedia is literally a caste system. Many of these privileged editors believe they have an inherent moral right to rule, and more chillingly, intimidate, via block button, similar to the Devine Right of Kings.

I have said elsewhere that I believe that only top-down intervention can break up the logjam Wikipedia faces in regard to admin abuse and certain paid editing accounts. To that end, a steady documentation of the facts, and a measured, reasonable presentation of them to Jimmy Wales, and to the WMF Board, is in my view going to eventually motivate action by the Founder and board. In the short term, a brief petition to Jimmy or WMF might be a good starting point, as far as a possible remedy-provoking action that is actually achievable inside Wikipedia space. This petition could easily be drafted by either or both of us, and signed by a few others invited to do so. Anything remotely resembling a time sink should be avoided.

We share, I believe, a deep conviction that paid editing by organizations with vast resources is an issue of paramount importance, along with the culture of resistance to reform and in some cases corruption in our admin corps, and that at times these two issues interconnect. My standard disclaimer: obviously only a smallish minority of admins are corrupt. But this recent case, the paid editing scandals, and the ongoing situation with Rfa's require measured response. It may take quite a while to get through to the top, but it feels to me that a concise, well-reasoned petition is the best current approach to remedial action. At least it would be a start. Jusdafax 21:29, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Yes I generally agree with you, and I think your use of "caste" as an analogy is apt. In these discussions I notice that admins tend to dominate, and in such discussions they have a built-in conflict of interest. Functionally, the only solution is for the community to continue to scrutinize admin candidates closely and apply very high, even impossible standards. Personally my view is that there should be a moratorium on new admins until a mechanism is put in place for removal. It seems to me that rather than petitioning Jimbo or the WMF, that is a better solution - no more new admins until we can be assured that the bad ones can be gotten rid of and the mistakes corrected. Frankly I don't see the WMF or Jimbo doing a thing on this issue. You also are right about the response to the idea labs thing being what it was, and such arguments with the Brahmins futile, but I responded anyway. Coretheapple (talk) 12:18, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

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GM Food RfC

Note about this RfC where you !voted. I tweaked the statement to make it more clear that it is about eating GM food and health. I'm notifying each person who !voted, in case that matters to you. Sorry for the trouble. Jytdog (talk) 21:50, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

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48		Rutgers University–New Brunswick (talk)						Expand
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3		Federal 500 siren (talk)						Merge
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115		Dance India Dance (season 4) (talk)						Merge
150		United States bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade (talk)						Wikify
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148		The Way of the Gun (talk)						Wikify
2		Corinne McFadden (talk)						Orphan
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0		Gaetano Saracco (talk)						Stub
13		Doctor Jazz (talk)						Stub
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21		One of the Boys (TV series) (talk)						Stub
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Improving Peter Hancock

Hi Coretheapple, I was wondering if you could help me update the stub for Peter Hancock. I have a paid COI and I was hoping you have a minute to review my updated version. It's only a paragraph, but the current article is only one line. Thanks!--FacultiesIntact (talk) 03:59, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. This is obviously a notable person, and my suggestion would be that you post on the talk page suggestions re added material and sources. Coretheapple (talk) 15:25, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Whoops, sorry for not being more explicit, but I posted on the talk page over two months ago and haven't seen any response, which is why I was seeking assistance from other editors outside of that space. Do you think you have the time to collaborate on this expansion?--FacultiesIntact (talk) 22:27, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Dakota Jackson

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RfC: Religion in infoboxes of nations

There is an RfC that you may be interested in at Template talk:Infobox country#RfC: Religion in infoboxes of nations. Please join us and help us to determine consensus on this issue. --Guy Macon (talk) 14:11, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

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Metasonix and Eric Barbour

I mentioned you in passing at WP:ANI. Best -- Binksternet (talk) 18:09, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Ah yes. Thanks. Coretheapple (talk) 22:41, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Bill Cosby

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Note

Hi, I have alluded to off-wiki posts that have attacked you at Wikipedia:Bureaucrats'_noticeboard#Request_for_restoration_of_access_to_administrative_toolkit so thought it polite to let you know about it. I have avoided naming you, so don't feel obliged to take part in any public discussion. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 15:33, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Ha! An admin. That figures. Thanks for the notice. Coretheapple (talk) 15:58, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

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My RfA

Pavlov's RfA reward Thank for !voting at my recent RfA. You voted Oppose so you get only one cookie, but a nice one. (Better luck next time.) All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 20:01, 16 July 2015 (UTC).

Thanks Rich. I don't even remember why I voted no, but I hope I wasn't too mean. Coretheapple (talk) 17:05, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

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Did you see...

the opinion poll at Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2015-07-15/Op-ed?

I'm sorry to harp on one of the few differences we have about paid editing, but it shows how most folks around here support the idea of the bridght line rule and other restrictions on paid editing. It also suggests an idea to me - just get a list of folks who want to further strengthen the rules, in case potential rule changes come up. Any feedback or interest? Smallbones_(smalltalk) 00:08, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

See User:Smallbones/Stay informed on paid editing issues Smallbones_(smalltalk) 02:22, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

I don't even remember what our difference of opinion is (a common theme today - see my response to Rich) but I will look at that page. Coretheapple (talk) 17:06, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

I have the following on a banner at my talk page. I sometimes experience loss of short term memory. I forget when it happens and, believe me, it bothers me more than it bothers you. Sound familiar? . Buster Seven Talk 17:26, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

I'll put the same banner on my talk page, unless I forget. Coretheapple (talk) 17:40, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

A little overly optimistic?

Jimbo on COI editing petrarchan47คุก 20:58, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

• (talk page stalker) ...well I found that pretty interesting. Thanks. Jusdafax 21:53, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

It explains a lot. petrarchan47คุก 09:16, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

Corporate PR slanting articles is "pretty rare"? He's living in a fool's paradise. It's common, and I hope it burns his ass as it should, because he is too much of a darn fool to recognize the problem. Coretheapple (talk) 11:52, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

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