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Talk:Vitalik Buterin

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Things to doEdit

As ColonelHenry has noted, there are several things to be done on this page. Certainly links to other projects should be provided, and the citations should be cleaned up. Just to be clear, I did not write any of the sources, and do not think the article is fringe. I have never met Buterin and have never talked or communicated with him. He is a worthy subject for a Wikipedia page. Sanpitch (talk) 20:49, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

  • The reference to WP:FRINGE I should have explained...while I advocate for Bitcoin, it and some of the associated ideology is considered fringe from a conventional political and economic standpoint, and extra caution should be exercised in writing the article with regards to WP:NPOV policy, and WP:BLP because of the issues associated those views. WP:BITCOIN seems rather inactive, and there aren't many comparable articles, so I can't recommend anyone who can give you some feedback.--ColonelHenry (talk) 20:54, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
I added links to the page from other articles where Buterin was already cited, added a link to an Ars Technica article, and changed a ref to make it more obvious that it's to the New Yorker. I removed the orphan warning. Sanpitch (talk) 17:05, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
I removed the multiple issues tag, which included a "blpsources" tag, and a "cleanup tag" that mentioned "WP:FRINGE" and "WP:GNG".
Regarding the "blpsources" template, I have edited the article, and I think every detail in the article text is verifiable through reliable sources, except for a press release cited for two sentences. The press release is is admittedly a primary source produced by the Ethereum Project, but one sentence is uncontroversial (that Buteran spoke at a conference), and the other explicitly attributes claims to the organization (i.e., "...the project's promoters announced..."). Perhaps some or all of this should be altered or removed, I'm certainly open to input, but it's a minor aspect of the article and I don't think negates removal of the "blpsources" when every other sentences cites independent reliable sources.
Regarding the "cleanup" template's mention of FRINGE, while I agree that some cryptocurrency ideology can be considered fringe, I don't think there are any fringe claims made in this article. The article sticks primarily to biographical facts, with some detour to describe Ethereum in more detail. I think a very fair criticism is that it delves too deeply into Ethereum, considering Buterin seems to be just one of four cofounders, which is my fault, and while that paragraph should probably be scaled back, it still seems well-grounded in facts, citing reputable sources. (Acknowledging that New Scientist can be sensationalistic at times).
Regarding the "cleanup" template's mention of GNG, notability is still a subjective, open issue, but the question is already being considered in the Articles for Deletion (AfD) discussion, and is prominently displayed in the article. I think that's adequate for now, and after a decision is reached it will be moot (either the article will be gone, or notability will no longer be in dispute). I have no objection if someone wants to add a notability template to the article, I just don't think it's necessary or useful at this point.
Agyle (talk) 06:32, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
Update: I trimmed the Ethereum section, removed the press release cite & associated info, and removed info from another press release that I mistakenly thought was a Reuters article (it was carried on reuters.com, but labeled as a press release). I did add another primary source, About Us from bitcoinmagazine.com, to clarify that it's both a website & print magazine, and that Buterin is listed as head writer (third party sources identify him only as co-founder and a writer). Agyle (talk) 09:18, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Vitalik hereEdit

Hey all, Vitalik here.

For very obvious reasons I will not try to influence the content of the article. However, I will neutrally provide two things as help:

1. http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2014/01/ethereum/ is a secondary source that might replace some of the primary sources cited in the current article

2. As far as images go, I hereby release https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/vSKgBCG7YsPpghCHi5LwqoypGt6oQZn0CUoY7_1Qda4=w755-h566-no and http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/b6f50b2145526621375de989ce8e1cec?s=200&d=&r=G into the public domain, and under the CC0 license in all cases where total surrender of copyright is unenforceable.

Vbuterin (talk) 14:16, 27 January 2014‎

Thanks Vitalik! I added the Wired article and a Coindesk article and removed all the primary sources. Sanpitch (talk) 02:42, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
Indeed, thanks; pointers to any other useful independent sources could be helpful. If you do wish to make any edits, guidance on that issue is at WP:BLPEDIT; in a nutshell, “Although Wikipedia discourages people from writing about themselves, removal of unsourced or poorly sourced material is acceptable.” And even “discourages” doesn't mean “prohibits”.
While much appreciated, I don't think your image release above is adequate for Wikipedia's purposes (anyone could claim to be you). While it doesn't seem much different than uploading an image through commons.wikimedia.org and checking the boxes of legalese to release images as CC0, it's probably one of those bureaucratic fine print things. If your Wikipedia login already works on commons.wikimedia.org (they used to be separate, but are now generally combined), it would probably take you under five minutes to work through the process of uploading the images there (protips: "Upload image" is on the left of side of main page, uploaded file names are retained (you may want to pick a meaningful name like vitalik-buterin.jpg), and there's a step where you have to click "show other licenses" to display a CC0 checkbox...for some reason the UI favors CC's Attribution-Share Alike license).
Agyle (talk) 07:12, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Other sourcesEdit

These are primary sources, but may be used as reliable sources for certain things (see WP:WPNOTRS).

  • "Roger Ver, Erik Voorhees and Vitalik Buterin join KryptoKit in ownership roles" (Press release). Toronto: KryptoKit (via Marketwired). 5 January 2014.
  • "Ethereum listens to community, releasing testnet prior to raising funds" (Press release). Toronto: Ethereum Project (via Marketwired). 29 January 2014.
  • Youtube Intro to Ethereum video with Buterin

I don't consider these reliable sources, but they may provide information to search for from reliable sources.

Agyle (talk) 09:13, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Why the aversion to calling Ethereum a "cryptocurrency" platform?Edit

Ethereum is mostly used for ETH to be speculated upon. This is also the main verifiable observable use Buterin himself puts it to! (per [1][2] "sound financial planning"). "publishing platform" in the first sentence of this article is actively misleading - there are no notable uses of Ethereum for publishing. Even the smart contracts are most notable in RSes for their hypothetical possibilities.

Why are advocates so averse to the word "cryptocurrency" around Ethereum? - David Gerard (talk) 09:41, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Agree, this Vitalik Buterin page shouldn't be making statements about if Ethereum is a publishing platform or if it is a cryptocurrency (or if it is both), as this is in dispute (or at least there is a misunderstanding about it). I think that discussion is more relevant at the Ethereum page. The aversion to calling it a cryptocurrency maybe stems from the fact that Buterin has repeatedly referred to it as not being a cryptocurrency. According to my understanding Ether (ETH) is the cryptocurrency component of Ethereum (a blockchain software platform). Thus Ether is a subset of the superset Ethereum (which is the turing complete language), and as you point out in this case the subset may be more well known than the superset. Ether is used to pay bockchain hosts (aka miners) to host your software (smart contracts) on their servers which are running Ethereum software. This is different from say Bitcoin where the nodes (miners) don't allow user's software to be hosted. There is some nuance to that, which belongs in the description. Buterin's sale of his ETH he describes it as logical under Diversification (finance), per the links you have provided (thus I don't see how it is connected to the subset/superset discussion). Jtbobwaysf (talk) 09:36, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
David, I copied your text and started a discussion over at Talk:Ethereum#Ether_vs._Ethereum hoping to get more feedback there. Hope that is ok. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 10:06, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

SourcesEdit

A few sources on Buterin to potentially improve the article:

N2e (talk) 11:12, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

AccuracyEdit

From the article:

Buterin was born in Kolomna, Moscow Oblast, Russia and lived in the area until the age of six when his parents emigrated to Canada in search of better employment opportunities.

Fortune's article :

Dmitry, who had divorced Vitalik’s mother, moved to Toronto in 1999. Buterin followed a few months later.

--46.147.164.155 (talk) 12:46, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

2016 article on Buterin in Canadian BusinessEdit

@N2e: Good content, thank you. I have added some of the content to the article. Interesting how he learned about bitcoin from his father. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 20:00, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Should the page mention his creation of bit torrentEdit

According to this interview with Vitalik he developed the bit torrent p2p network, worth mentioning? [3] 80.169.113.194 (talk) 12:15, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

It seems he didn't say that (but we would need an RS anyhow) https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/2c1r53/3_minute_explanation_of_ethereum_by_inventor/ Jtbobwaysf (talk) 07:38, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

External LinksEdit

This article has no external links. Some proposed links:

Vitalik has a certified Twitter feed https://twitter.com/VitalikButerin with 276K followers as of this writing. Is there any reason not to link to the subject's Twitter feed?

Vitalik has a website http://vitalik.ca/

A presentation by Vitalik: Devcon2: Ethereum in 25 Minutes - YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66SaEDzlmP4

--Phersh (talk) 05:09, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

@Phersh: Great suggestions, at very least I agree with it... Jtbobwaysf (talk) 08:49, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
I changed my opinion on this, I do not support a link to youtube videos. Twitter might be ok, and certainly, his website in the infobox is good. But youtube videos, he has hundreds of them I guess, so how are we supposed to pick the right one? I guess there must also be some policy on this as well. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 13:41, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

2017/18 articles on Buterin and Ethereum RussiaEdit

Not sure if and where we should add these news about the deal to create Ethereum Russia last year (2017), and the Russian banks involved. It is certainly true now (June 2018), that Russia indeed will develop a new payment system based on Ethereum blockchain technology ( I don't have the expertise to know that this is actually a cryptocurrency, from what I read it is just to circumvent SWIFT). Maybe someone can provide input and work with me on that. Should it be a biographical note here or shall I elaborate on the Etherum entries for the company/foundation? It should be updated, it seems important to the current political situation also, meaning that Buterin and the Russian leadership consult each other on these matters. I will use good sources and keep it concise. Osterluzei (talk) 22:53, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, let's see the content on the talk page here first. It has to be very neutral though, this is a WP:BLP. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 20:35, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Somehow my expansion was deleted but I used reliable sources, the quotes were verified. I am undoing the deletion. Osterluzei (talk) 21:11, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

Please help to keep the expansion on Ethereum Russia alive; it's very relevant. I checked for better sources and wrote only what I could directly reference in the articles. Too bad I had to let the reddit comments go, how else should we keep track of what people say unless there is an interview of this person by a major press outlet. Osterluzei (talk) 16:58, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

We shouldn't keep track of what people say. We only should describe what reliable sources say (major press outlets, as you put it). Retimuko (talk) 17:35, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
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