Talk:Stephen Vogt

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Stephen Vogt/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Lee Vilenski (talk · contribs) 10:44, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello, I am planning on reviewing this article for GA Status, over the next couple of days. Thank you for nominating the article for GA status. I hope I will learn some new information, and that my feedback is helpful.

If nominators or editors could refrain from updating the particular section that I am updating until it is complete, I would appreciate it to remove a edit conflict. Please address concerns in the section that has been completed above (If I've raised concerns up to references, feel free to comment on things like the lede.)

I generally provide an overview of things I read through the article on a first glance. Then do a thorough sweep of the article after the feedback is addressed. After this, I will present the pass/failure. I will use strikethrough tags when concerns are met. Even if something is obvious why my concern is met, please leave a message as courtesy.

Best of luck! you can also use the {{done}} tag to state when something is addressed. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)}

Please let me know after the review is done, if you were happy with the review! Obviously this is regarding the article's quality, however, I want to be happy and civil to all, so let me know if I have done a good job, regardless of the article's outcome.

Immediate Failures

• It is a long way from meeting any one of the six good article criteria -
• It contains copyright infringements -
• It has, or needs, cleanup banners that are unquestionably still valid. These include{{cleanup}}, {{POV}}, {{unreferenced}} or large numbers of {{citation needed}}, {{clarify}}, or similar tags. (See also {{QF-tags}}). -
• It is not stable due to edit warring on the page. -

Prose

Lede

• Could we expand on what the IPA means?
  • Sorry, where is this? — Hunter Kahn 20:09, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
  • (/ˈvoʊt/; - without an explaination, it means nothing. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:30, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
    • Ahh, ok, that was there before I edited it and honestly, I didn't even know that was called IPA. LOL I'm happy to expand on it but I'm not sure what's appropriate to add? More articles I see don't have anything other than the IPA text. Should I add "IPA:" to the front of the word, maybe? — Hunter Kahn 20:00, 7 May 2020 (UTC) — Hunter Kahn 20:00, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
      • Just put (pronounced /'...) Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:06, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
• Stephen Guy Vogt (/ˈvoʊt/; born November 1, 1984) is an American professional baseball catcher for the Arizona Diamondbacks of Major League Baseball (MLB). - well, he hasn't always played for them...
  • Added "currently plays for". — Hunter Kahn 20:09, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
• baseball catcher - WP:SEAOFBLUE
  • Removed the baseball wikilink. — Hunter Kahn 20:09, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Surely better to have is an American professional baseball player who currently plays as catcher for... Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:30, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
    • Yeah, that is much better. LOL Changed. — Hunter Kahn 20:00, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
• MLB all-star - should link the whole thing, or it's an WP:EASTEREGG.
  • Major League Baseball is spelled out in the prior sentence followed by (MLB) so I don't think it's necessary to spell it out again? — Hunter Kahn 20:09, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
    • No, but the article is on the MLB all-star game, so I'd link the phrase. There is an article on all-star etc. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:30, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
      • Oh I see. Changed. — Hunter Kahn 20:00, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
• Repetition of draft in " He was drafted by Tampa Bay in the 12th round of the 2007 Major League Baseball draft."
  • Changed the first reference to "selected". — Hunter Kahn 20:09, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
• Vogt spent six years in minor leagues in Tampa Bay, and was named the franchise's Minor League Player of the Year - is "minor league" a proper noun or not? Might need to expand on what minor league it is.
  • I added a wikilink to the first reference of "minor leagues", which I think should be sufficient for the reader without having to expand on what it is, which I think would add a lot of unnecessary wording to the lead. As for "Minor League Player of the Year", my understanding is that is the official title of the distinction, so it is a proper noun in this case and should be capitalized. — Hunter Kahn 20:09, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
• 0 for 32 hitless streak, - Jargon.
  • Reworded. — Hunter Kahn 20:09, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
• He started his major league career with an 0 for 32 hitless streak, which set a Tampa Bay record and lasted into his debut with Oakland in 2013 - I'm still not sure what this means.
  • This has been reworded per above. — Hunter Kahn 20:09, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
• bases-loaded walk-off single. - Jargon. Might be ok in prose, but is a bit much in the lede.
  • Changed to "game-winning single". — Hunter Kahn 20:09, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
• breakout season - is this a technical term? Sounds promotional.
  • I personally think it's fair to call it that, but I've reworded it. — Hunter Kahn 20:09, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
• By the time Vogt left Oakland in 2017, - casual tone. Try "Vogt left Oakand in 2017 with a batting..."
  • Reworded. — Hunter Kahn 20:09, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
• 49 home runs and 198 RBIs - more jargon.
  • Expanded RBI to "runs batted in" and wikilinked it so the reader can find more on what it is. Though I think RBI is a common enough baseball statistic that its fair to use in the lead of an article about a baseball player. — Hunter Kahn 20:09, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
    • I think the idea that the lede is fine to have jargon about a topic is a misconception. How you've now handled this is fine. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:30, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
• Individual records, such as "best since this time" isn't really lede worthy, this lede should be 3 paragraphs with the content.
  • Is this your personal view or is there some sort of guideline or policy stating this? It certainly strikes me as lede worthy... — Hunter Kahn 20:09, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
    • A lede is about the subject, why its important, how it effects the world, etc. Its fine in the text to comment on how good a particular season is, it's not really an overview of the player as a whole though. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:30, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
      • Fair enough. Would you mind identifying for me which specific sentences/phrases you'd like me to cut? I don't want to accidentally remove something you wanted kept, and/or keeping something you wanted removed. — Hunter Kahn 20:00, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
• shoulder injury that threatened to end his career, - conjecture.
  • Removed the conjecture. — Hunter Kahn 20:09, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
• Vogt has been a favorite among fans and teammates alike throughout his career, and Oakland fans coined for him the popular chant "I believe in Stephen Vogt!" - puff.
  • I removed the first part of this sentence, but not the second, as the chant is extremely well-known in relation to Vogt; it's kind of one of the most famous things about him. lol — Hunter Kahn 20:09, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
• Catfish Hunter Award for three consecutive years and the Dave Stewart Community Service Award - what are these awards?
  • Added context for the first; the second I think is explained by the "community service" in the title. — Hunter Kahn 20:09, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
• Is there a reason sometimes you refer to the team by it's expression "athletics, the Giants" et al. and sometimes as the state - San Francisco, Tampa Bay...
  • I think I mixed it up a bit to avoid repetition, but I can make changes if necessary. — Hunter Kahn 20:09, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
    • I don't know if this is suitable or not for baseball, but I'm willing to give it a pass. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:30, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
• Two-time NAIA All-American selection and set multiple school records. - what does this mean?
  • Removed the NAIA; I think the All-American selection works on its own as is more self-explanatory. — Hunter Kahn 20:09, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Infobox -

• Link 2016 Major League Baseball All-Star Game
  • In the caption, you mean? Done. — Hunter Kahn 20:09, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
• Why are certain things bolded in the infobox? Seems random Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:50, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
  • I guess that's automatically done by the infobox template? I don't believe I added in any bolding. — Hunter Kahn

NOTE: I had to run before I could get to the general comments, but I will work on those later today. — Hunter Kahn 20:09, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

General

• copyvio check is unconvincing :).
• Whilst three references on their own isn't a WP:REFBOMB, you don't need three references for so many statements! Pick the best one, and put it in. Just because extra material exists, we don't have to use it
  • I have combed through the article and removed all instances in which three consecutive citation tags were used. This resulted in the numbering of some of the citation tags being changed, but I went through and fixed the order wherever I found it. — Hunter Kahn 20:00, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
• Quite a few duplicate links
  • How do I address this? Is it the Duplication Detector link above? I've never used it before and I was a bit confused because it was asking for two URLs, so I wasn't sure what to use in it? — Hunter Kahn 20:08, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
• What's with the level 4 subsection for minor leagues? It's lower than the one below it.
  • It seems someone else changed around the subsections from how I originally had them. In my view, the way I originally had them was better, so I've changed them back, but please do let me know what you think. — Hunter Kahn 20:09, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
• 14 subsections is a bit ridiculous for one section. Consider changing the subsections of career into the clubs he played with, and then subsection that with year.
  • hehe That's exactly the way I originally had it, before somebody changed it. :) — Hunter Kahn 20:09, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
• If that is done, use {{|TOC|2}}
  • Could you add this to the article? I was trying to do so but couldn't seem to get it right. — Hunter Kahn 20:08, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
• I'm not sure I know enough about copyright to be 100%, but I don't see how the infobox image meets our CC-BY-SA standards from Flikr. [1]
  • I'm not positive myself, the image was available on Commons so I used it; I didn't upload it myself. Should I remove it? — Hunter Kahn 20:08, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
• Arizona Diamondbacks (2020) needs expansion.. It also can't be simply 2020, as it's noted he signed in 2019.
  • Changed it to "(2019–)" — Hunter Kahn 20:08, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
• the: I can't begin to thank all of my teammates, coaches, front office, clubhouse staff, trainers and FANS enough for everything this past season. It was a season my family and I will always remember. Words will never express the gratitude we feel for the opporutnity to be a Giant. There are many things we will miss in SF and we will treasure every memory. Thank you to all the people who had a hand in that. quote needs to go, it's selfserving and isn't particularly helpful. Nothing that couldn't be written about.
  • Dropped it. — Hunter Kahn 20:08, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Comments

• Automated note - If you fancy returning the favour, I have outstanding GA nominations that require reviewing at WP:GAN. I'd be very grateful if you were to complete one of these, however it's definitely not mandatory. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)}
  • Thanks for agreeing to take this one on, Lee Vilenski! I look forward to addressing whatever comments you have... — Hunter Kahn 16:42, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
    • No problem! Hunter Kahn. I have a bit of a thing for getting lede's to be good (as that's the most important part of the article), thus why there are so many issues raised. It's clearly a well sourced article that could potentially do with a bit of a cull of a few references, but for the most part, the rest of the article is perfectly well in-depth. I've got a couple more comments that I will jot down, and then put it on hold. I'll drop you 7 days to get back to me, and then I'll do a second sweep. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:02, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
      • Hi Hunter Kahn as it's been a few days, could I get you to address the remaining points? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:42, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
        • Apologies Lee Vilenski for the delay. I will endeavor to be more responsive from now on. I think I've addressed everything above, but let me know if I missed anything or if anything needs further attention. — Hunter Kahn 20:08, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Works for me. Passing Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:22, 8 May 2020 (UTC)