Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball

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WikiProject Baseball (Rated Project-class)
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Blurry photos in infoboxesEdit

I have noticed a bunch of Yankees related biographical articles have had there infobox photos changed out to blurry screenshots from YES Network press conferences. Examples are this version of Buck Showalter and Mike Ford (baseball), where the infobox photo was updated to an image of him that is more recent and front facing, but in my opinion is far less descriptive and clear as the previous image. I think that while newer is ideal preferable, a clearer image is far more important and that in general having a headshot is not particularly important for athlete infoboxes. I have already started changing some of them back but I'd like to also build a consensus. Best, GPL93 (talk) 19:59, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

If those photos are just screen captures off of the TV broadcasts I would think they would have copyright issues and should be deleted anyway. But yea those are terrible photos, if another one is available i'd use that Spanneraol (talk) 20:11, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
Doesn't appear to be COPYVIO, the YouTube link it's pulled from is the official channel for the network and has a CC release statement in the summary. For the Mike Ford, one, at least, it does. Hog Farm Bacon 20:42, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
Copyright or not, they look terrible and aren't better than a clear shot. Best, GPL93 (talk) 22:25, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
@GPL93: In case you haven't already seen: Wikipedia’s Best Worst NBA Photos Are Modern Art.—Bagumba (talk) 05:15, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
@Bagumba: Thank you, this has made my Monday morning! It reminds me of when Mark Titus said on his podcast that its his goal to get a photo on his page, but a "real one" that was clearly taken from across the street or while he's at a diner and looking away and not a professional shot. Best, GPL93 (talk) 13:04, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Tom Seaver article data correction in career statistics sectionEdit

Hello and good day. Go to career statistics, line where it has his Hits per 9 innings stat. Change 7.84 to 7.47. Source: Baseball Reference pitching leaderboards: hits per 9 innings pitched. Seaver is #39.(round to three figures, 7.47). Thank you for your time.2601:581:8402:1EE0:D945:D5B4:306D:41AC (talk) 02:00, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

I have corrected it. Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (talkcontributions) 02:17, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

1919 Detroit StarsEdit

I created an article this week on the 1919 Detroit Stars season. However, I found the Template:Infobox baseball season yearly a bit confusing, and it's kind of messed up. If anyone here is familiar with the workings of the template, I would appreciate help in fixing the layout in the 1919 Stars article. Thanks, Cbl62 (talk) 03:15, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Opening sentence of season articlesEdit

The season article style guide (Wikipedia:WikiProject Baseball/MLB team season articles format) does not specify a standard for the opening sentence. I'm not suggesting we must have one, as one size does not necessarily fit all, but I thought I'd get some feedback on some alternatives and see what's working well and what could be improved. My starting point was noticing that many such articles don't meet Manual of Style guideines for the first sentence (MOS:BOLDAVOID etc.), so I am intending to fix some of these.

Interested to hear what others think about what links to include and how it is phrased. --Jameboy (talk) 12:27, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

I would definitely be in favor of using the wording in the Phillies article that you cited. Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (talkcontributions) 18:35, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
I think most of the current articles start similarly to the Phillies article... but I don't know if they all have to be exactly the same. Spanneraol (talk) 18:39, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

My requirements are follow MOS:BOLDAVOID and provide links to the team article and the respective MLB season. In the above Mets example, "2014 season" is MOS:EGGy and should be expanded to 2014 Major League Baseball season.—Bagumba (talk) 05:08, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

World Series articles game narratives expansionsEdit

The following World Series articles individual game narratives (all or most) can be expanded. They are 1909, 1910, 1915, 1917, 1920, 1934 and 1944 World Series. Have a good day.2601:581:8402:1EE0:304C:CD3D:3958:6A95 (talk) 14:03, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

Editing Baseball infoboxesEdit

How does one edit the infoboxes for the Wild Card Game articles? I'm trying to add in 2020 American League Wild Card Series & 2020 National League Wild Card Series to the infoboxes at 2019 American League Wild Card Game & 2019 National League Wild Card Game articles. GoodDay (talk) 15:50, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Based on a quick look of the code of the Wild Card Game infobox, it looks like the 2020 games will automatically be added if it finds the existence of 2020 American League Wild Card Series 2020 American League Wild Card Game or 2020 National League Wild Card Series 2020 National League Wild Card Game articles. The problem is the playoff format for 2020 will be different, and thus the article names will need to be different as well. We may need to either change the code or create a redirect from those redlinks to the true article names. Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (talkcontributions) 16:11, 16 September 2020 (UTC) note: I've edited my original comment to correct a typo Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (talkcontributions) 04:58, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
You were correct. I've just created the two articles 2020 American League Wild Card Series & 2020 National League Wild Card Series, with accompanying re-directs. GoodDay (talk) 16:53, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
I've also created 2020 American League Division Series, 2020 National League Division Series, 2020 American League Championship Series & 2020 National League Championship Series articles, which have been re-directed to the 2020 Major League Baseball season article, for now. GoodDay (talk) 17:33, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
The problem is the playoff format for 2020 will be different, and thus the article names will need to be different as well.: Won't the playoffs still unchanged at a high level with wild card, division, and league championship series?[1]Bagumba (talk) 04:17, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
At a high level it's significantly different, with sixteen teams in the playoffs instead of ten, and all of them playing in a multiple-game wild card series rather than just a single wild card game between two wild card teams. From the infobox point of view, it assumes the link to the analogous page for the previous season / next season has a specific format for the name, "year league Wild Card Game", which breaks down for 2020 as the page name is changing. isaacl (talk) 04:46, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
Thanks, I overlooked the wild card game vs "series" naming. Division and LCS names remain the same.—Bagumba (talk) 04:53, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
The template could be modified to allow an overriding page to be specified for the next season / previous season, as is done with {{Infobox MLB yearly}} (I implemented it that way to handle franchise moves). isaacl (talk) 04:46, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
I implemented support for next_season and prev_season parameters in Template:Infobox baseball league wild card game/sandbox and added test cases for 2019 and 2021. If there is support for this approach, I can update the main template. isaacl (talk) 02:10, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
I've updated {{Infobox baseball league wild card game}} and its documentation, as well as the 2019 wild card game pages with the overriding link. Please feel free to provide any feedback. isaacl (talk) 17:09, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Vancouver Canadians or Same Team, Different LeagueEdit

A fairly new user has split the Vancouver Canadians into two articles: Vancouver Canadians (the current Northwest League franchise) and Vancouver Canadians (PCL) (a team that preceded it in the Pacific Coast League). Succinctly, the PCL team relocated to Sacramento, and a NWL team was acquired and relocated to continue as the Canadians. I’m of the opinion that they are the same team and should be merged back to Vancouver Canadians.

I know this has been discussed before, but I wanted to see if we are still of the same consensus. We may see more of this in the coming months with the likelihood that several MiLB teams may change classifications and/or leagues, this would be a good discussion to point back to when handling those changes. (I’m also temporarily with out a desktop internet connection, so I can’t perform the reverts myself very easily.) NatureBoyMD (talk) 02:50, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

If I'm understanding correctly, the current franchise is a completely different organization that just shares the same team name as the previous one? In that case I feel the two separate organizations should have separate pages. isaacl (talk) 04:09, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
Unless there is an announcement that the new Canadians franchise is inheriting all records, history, etc from the relocated franchise, a la the Charlotte Hornets inheriting the Charlotte history from the New Orleans Pelicans franchise or the Cleveland Browns inheriting their Cleveland history from the Baltimore Ravens franchise, I think they should be treated as two distinct teams. However, I am not clear on what the consensus is for maintaining articles for previous iterations of minor league baseball teams that have relocated - I think makes more sense for the PCL team's article title to be renamed to in accordance with their new Sacramento name and for it to preserve the team's history from Vancouver, rather than forking the history into a separate article. Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (talkcontributions) 05:09, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
Sacramento doesn’t recognize their preceding history in Vancouver, so placing the full history at Sacramento River Cats would be inappropriate. Typically when a team moves to another city we consider it a new team with a separate article. Another related example is the Nashville Sounds—the original Southern League franchise was relocated to Huntsville while an American Association team was relocated from Evansville to Nashville to continue as the Sounds at Triple-A. Each of those three teams recognize only the history in their cities. Thusly, we have Nashville Sounds, Evansville Triplets, and Huntsville Stars. This series of moves seems to be similar to Vancouver–Sacramento. NatureBoyMD (talk) 13:01, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
@Pemilligan: We briefly talked about this with another recent relocation. Do you have an opinion on this one? NatureBoyMD (talk) 14:49, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
Well, now I'm convinced that that I was wrong and the Canadians are indeed two separate franchises using the same identity. In the rare instances that the current team references the PCL team, they tend to call them the "Pacific Coast League Vancouver Canadians". This is a marked difference from the ways Nashville, Norfolk, Charlotte, etc handle their histories. Sorry to bother everyone. Hopefully the forthcoming 2021 MiLB changes will be clearly laidout to avoid this kind of confusion. NatureBoyMD (talk) 20:10, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
We haven't really been consistent about minor league franchises... sometimes we talk about the history in a city sometimes we talk about teams having moved from one city to another... I think it really depends on the situation... as often the franchise itself doesnt really move but the Major League team transfers their franchise rights to a different city... it's not the same as what happens with major league teams moving. For the more recent teams or teams in different leagues like Vancouver I think separate articles is fine.. for older teams where there isnt much info on them... grouping a bunch of teams into one article is also fine. Spanneraol (talk) 21:38, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
I agree with the split into Vancouver Canadians (Northwest League) and Vancouver Canadians (PCL) (and Sacramento River Cats for that matter). There are too many differences between Class A Short Season and AAA to call it the Canadians the same team. -- Pemilligan (talk) 21:44, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Help another editor?Edit

Hi. This editor needs help. He thinks it is a fine idea to (use tools to) revert proper updates to infoboxes of baseball stats. As he did here. I asked why he did that. He thinks a ref is needed with each update - and says that otherwise it is vandalism.

I tried explaining things to him without success. Can someone set him straight before I lose it? Thanks. --2604:2000:E010:1100:B1D8:2CA1:6CE6:78E8 (talk) 06:36, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Per WP:V: ... and any material whose verifiability has been challenged or is likely to be challenged, must include an inline citation that directly supports the material. A non-baseball editor could legitimately not know where the information came from. There's no existing reference link in the infobox. It's not sourced in the body. If it's challenged (or not), just put the reference's URL in the edit summary.—Bagumba (talk) 11:00, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Template 2020 MLB playoffs, needs adjustmentsEdit

Needs to be updated, so it will show the extra playoffs teams. GoodDay (talk) 21:23, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

None of the other playoff teams have clinched their spots yet. The "Wild Card Game" should be changed to "Wild Card Series" as that is what they are calling it this year. Spanneraol (talk) 21:43, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
Don't know how to change WCG to WCS, for this template. GoodDay (talk) 21:50, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
Maybe some kind of special "marker" in the template for this year? Like if anyone is good at programming templates, can put an option in there saying something like "series=yes" that changes the template to dispay "series" instead of "game" for 2020, while leaving the rest of the previous years templates as they are.Canuck89 (What's up?) 22:28, September 23, 2020 (UTC)
There's a "wc" parameter that can be set to yes or no indicating if the link to the wild card game should be included (defaults to yes). It could be modified to support "series", for example, to display a link to a wild card series page. I can take a look at the changes if there is interest. isaacl (talk) 01:06, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
I implemented support for a "series" value for the wc parameter in Template:Mlb playoffs navbox/sandbox, and added some test cases to test no wild card links, links to the wild card game pages, and links to the wild card series pages. isaacl (talk) 01:21, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
I see User:Santiago Claudio implemented support for a "wcs" parameter. Does anyone have a preference for reusing the wc parameter versus having a new parameter? isaacl (talk) 16:48, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
From a user perspective I think it's easier to have just the wc parameter rather than two, particularly since they should be mutually exclusive (the way it's coded now, since wc defaults to "yes", you have to include both wc=no and wcs=yes). isaacl (talk) 22:36, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
Since there is no 2020 Major League Baseball postseason article, wouldn't it make sense to combine Template:2020 MLB season by team and Template:2020 MLB Playoffs navbox into Template:2020 MLB season? --Jameboy (talk) 21:02, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
Better to stay consistent with previous years. Spanneraol (talk) 21:27, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
What I'm proposing would add consistency. Currently we have two teams called "Chicago" in one template and Chicago Cubs and Chicago White Sox in the other (the latter, with the full team name seems clearer). If the change is acceptable, the previous years could be changed accordingly and I'm willing to work on that. --Jameboy (talk) 22:12, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
I assume you are just suggesting adding the playoff series to the season template... but the post-season one groups just the playoff teams which has a purpose. I don't see any great need to make such a change. Spanneraol (talk) 22:17, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
That is what I'm suggesting but I do see what you mean in terms of navigating between just the postseason teams, especially for "normal" seasons when only a few teams qualify. I will withdraw my suggestion for now. --Jameboy (talk) 22:40, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
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