Talk:Misty Copeland

Active discussions
Misty Copeland has been listed as one of the Media and drama good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Did You Know Article milestones
DateProcessResult
October 19, 2008Good article nomineeListed
November 3, 2015Peer reviewReviewed
February 27, 2016Featured article candidateNot promoted
Did You Know A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on August 31, 2008.
Current status: Good article

GAC commentsEdit

I was going to review this article for GAC, but I'm afraid I don't have the time to complete my review. I made some preliminary comments, however, so hopefully it will help before the article is reviewed in full. My major concern is the status of the prose, which is typically below par. A thorough copy-edit from a non-involved editor will help spruce things up.

MOS/Formatting

  • Per The MOS, the birthdate should be written "(born 1982)", not "(1982–)".
  • The "Biography" is not applicable, I feel, since the rest of the article is technically part of her bio, as well. Would it work better as "Early life"?
  • In the refs, there is no need to include "The New York Times Company" in referencing The New York Times; it's fairly obvious.
  • Also in the refs, there are numerous repeated links for magazines and newspapers. They only need to be linked once.
    • Unlike the main body of the article, we do not assume the reader has read previous refs and make each fully contained by linking each as is appropriate.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 15:47, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Prose

  • ...is an American ballerina, who is described by many accounts as the first African-American female soloist for the American Ballet Theatre (ABT), which has been described as one of the three great American-style classical ballet companies on the world stage today (along with New York City Ballet and San Francisco Ballet). Long, long sentence. I'm not sure from the beginning what "described by many accounts" means; accounts differ? This can be made clearer. The background information about the ABT is also not needed here; it detracts from who this article is about.
    • I have shortened the sentence. WRT, by many accounts, I have been informed of a dancer who seems to have performed as a soloist once or very briefly with the company. I have inquiries awaiting response directly from ABT.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 16:12, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
  • In this role, she has endured cultural pressure and has been described as the "Jackie Robinson of classical ballet". What does "cultural pressure" mean? It's perhaps a little too vague.
  • her ballet teachers, who were serving as her guardians while she lived with them: shorten to "custodial guardians"?
  • After two summer workshops with the ABT, she became a member of the ABT Studio Company in 2000, a member of the ABT corps de ballet in 2001, and an ABT soloist in 2007. A lot of repetition here with "ABT" this, "ABT" that; any way to condense?
  • I see a few uses of "Misty" where a pronoun or "Copeland" will suffice; notably in the first paragraph of the body.
  • DelaCerna allowed Copeland to go to the club after school until the her workday ended and Cynthia Bradley... "the" or "her"? If "her", whose workday is it?
  • Bradley invited Copeland to attend classes at the small local ballet school, San Pedro Dance Center, where Bradley taught but Copeland's mother did not have a car and her oldest sister Erica was working two jobs, so Copeland did not accept the invitation at first. Cut into two sentences, perhaps after "taught"?
  • She soon moved back in with her mother in a motel in Gardena, California.[10] She and her mother soon signed a management contract and a life-story contract and Copeland moved in with Bradley. Repetitive wording ("soon" x 2)... maybe, "Soon after she and her mother moved to a motel in Gardena, California, they signed a management contract..."?
  • The competition was held at the Chandler Pavilion on March 24, 1998, and she says it was the first time she ever battled nervousness: "said", past tense.
  • The winners were awarded scholarships between $500 and $2500. Repetitive; "the winners received"?
  • The contest was among gifted high school students in Southern California... this should be explained when the contest is first introduced. Otherwise, it's very confusing; I thought this was about a second competition!

That's as far as I got. If you have any questions about my comments/suggestions, please let me know via my talk page. Best of luck, María (habla conmigo) 15:02, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

GA ReviewEdit

This review is transcluded from Talk:Misty Copeland/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose):   b (MoS):  
    Many of the wordings and sentence orderings aren't comfortable. For example, in the lead a sentence about ABT separates sentences about Kimball and Jackie Robinson. Likewise, in the Custody case section, the timeline goes from 98 to 2000 and back to 98. Likewise, Bartell has been named, but then "the lawyer who delivered her to the police station filed emancipation papers."
    I will respond to any specific complaints.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 06:55, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references):   b (citations to reliable sources):   c (OR):  
    What is "cultural pressure"?
    I have reworked the sentence. I hope it is in better context now.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 06:13, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects):   b (focused):  
    Maybe it's just me, but it seems like there's a large amount of non-ballet info here. Reading this article, I'd like to know more about her career; I think the article does a good job of covering peripheral issues... but perhaps to the extent of obscuring her career.
    In truth, I am not knowledgeable enough about ballet to glean anything more about her ballet career from the numerous NYT articles cited. However, the most interesting part of her ballet career is the early portion that is in the separate custody case section. Are you not counting this part of the article as part of her career. If you exclude that, there is are still about 4500 characters of text on her ballet career alone. I have entire Good Articles with less text.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 21:24, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:  
    "As an African-American woman, she is an extremely rare talent in her field,[22] and although she has been shielded from several issues, she endures the difficulties of cultural isolation as the second African-American ABT soloist ballerina." and "She also feels that since the ballerina is the focus of the ballet her role as a trail-blazing performer and role model has extra significance." seem to be praising her and representing her view more than I would expect from an encyclopedia article. Don't say what she feels, say what she's been quoted as saying. Do be more specific about what cultural isolation is, and how it applies to her specifially.
    Actually, I think this is very subtly worded compared to Jackie Robinson's article, which explicitly says "players called Jackie a "nigger" from their dugout, and yelled that he should "go back to the cotton fields." This is because the primary sources address the issues in a subtle and refined way. We don't know what specific things she is being shielded from. They could be calling her a Dancing monkey or some things much worse behind her back (or even under their breath or directly to her face). We don't know. They could be discriminating against her in others ways. All we have are the subtle primary references and there is not much more we can say.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 21:35, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars etc.:  
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):   b (appropriate use with suitable captions):  
    Are there truly no free images of her?
    ABT has emailed me two great images, but has not been able to provide proper licensing for them.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 05:59, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:  
    You've got an interesting article here. It's got plenty of references, but I think it needs copyediting before it's truly a good article. I find that sometimes I need a separate set of eyes to copyedit my articles after I've poured myself into referencing them properly, and I think you're likely in the same boat here. ON HOLD for at least a week for you to look over the issues. Jclemens (talk) 02:53, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
    I am very open to your editorial suggestions, if you have specific ones. It is quite normal to post a listing of such suggestions during the hold process.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 21:43, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

10/2 re-reviewEdit

In an effort to provide specific suggestions, here are a set of items for copyediting:

  • First sentence in the lead uses "described" twice... Avoid that.
  • Last sentence, first paragraph of lead, uses "she has endured the cultural pressure associated it"--suspect a "with" is missing?
  • "The first person to notice Copeland's natural presence and skill was her drill team coach, Liz Cantine" First person ever? Or just the first one to introduce her to formalized movement training?
  • "However, Copeland's mother did not have a car, and her oldest sister Erica was working two jobs. Therefore, Copeland did not accept the invitation at first.[13][12]" This can be one sentence.
  • "By the age of fourteen, Copeland was the winner of a national ballet contest and won her first solo role." Which contest? Which role? The answers should follow in the next sentence.
    • I am at the mercy of the secondary source, which does not offer clarification. I am not sure from the rest of the refs, which awards and roles this one is talking about.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 03:37, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
  • "The Bradleys introduced her to books and videos about ballet and cultural fares such as Shrimp scampi." How is this relevant or encyclopedic?
    • I think it gives context to their relationship. We know they were her dance teachers, but this tells about their relationship.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 01:45, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
  • "A larger role in Don Quixote and a featured role in The Chocolate Nutcracker, an African American version of the tale that was narrated by Debbie Allen soon followed." I think you need a comma after Allen.
  • "Copeland's victory secured her the recognition as the best young dancer in the Greater Los Angeles Area." Seems a bit more exuberantly positive about her than an encyclopedia should be--sounds like a fan wrote it.
  • "In 1998, there was a controversy involving her custody." That's passive voice, and an unnecessarily weak phrasing to open a paragraph. Do be neutral in voice, but don't be wimpy. :-)
  • "Eventually in 1998 Copeland," 'Eventually' seems like a strange word to describe events that appear to have happened later in the same year.
  • "Copeland, who had been declared the best dancer in Southern California," Strike the parenthetical clause--you said that above.
  • The whole "Custody case" section is still not chronological. Order of events should not require detailed reading, and you give the outcome of the case in the middle of the allegations.
  • "During Copeland's entire American Ballet Theatre career until 2008" So does that mean in 2008 another African-American woman was hired?
  • "she is an extremely rare talent in her field" Again, sounds like fan writing, and could be more neutral/encyclopedic.
  • "Every program that Copeland auditioned for made her an offer for the summer of 1999" That's a misplaced modifier.
  • "She studied at the Summer Intensive Program" Is that a proper noun?
  • "She is one of the youngest soloists" in what context? ABT? USA? 2007 in Ballet? Worldwide in recorded history?

There are probably more than these--that is what I have time to go through in detail right now. I've essentially reconfirmed my impression that comprehensive copyediting is needed here. I think you have everything it takes to have a great article, but the indicated issues (and similar ones) are currently holding it back. Jclemens (talk) 01:21, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

10/6 re-reviewEdit

Based on the extensive copyediting needed, I've just gone ahead and done it. I've included a couple of tags, but I'm pretty sure that I've correctly refactored everything that I didn't tag. Feel free to correct anything I've boogered up.

However, this disqualifies me as a reviewer, so I'm marking this as needing a second opinion. Jclemens (talk) 07:02, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I see you added two tags. The first, which is at paragraph two of the first section of the main body, is without explanation in the secondary source. It is not clear to me if this is the Spotlight Awards or another contest. The other one seems to be requesting an explanation of the law beyond what is in the given secondary source. This may or may not be a reasonable request, but I do not know California law and do not know that I should be required to for a GA on this topic. I think the second tag should be removed.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 12:31, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Second ReviewerEdit

Hi! I'll look over this article to give a second opinion, and should have the full review soon. Dana boomer (talk) 17:42, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

  • Prose/MOS:
    • The lead should be a summary, no references, yada, yada, yada...Tony, you've heard my spiel recently...ask if you want more detail :)
      • There are two accepted styles of WP:LEAD. Either fully cited or fully uncited with all facts cited elsewhere in the main body. I am using the fully cited version here.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 05:14, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
    • It would be nice if you could find the ballet contest she won that is tagged in the Early life section, if not, just remove the tag...it's not a huge deal.
    • I did some editing work on the bit about the restraining order in the second paragraph of the Custody case section to clarify who asked for the restraining order. Please take a look at it and make sure I haven't changed anything important or made anything go against what the source says.
    • Is there a reason that there is a Dancer infobox filled out and then hidden in the ABT section?
    • Is there a reason for all of the hidden text in the Corps de Ballet subsection?
      • I think that was two sections of text copied from the sources at the beginning of each paragraph that I intended to incorporate in the article as needed. I never checked on whether I had incorporated everything that was necessary.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 18:26, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

This looks like a very nice article. The issues above are minor, and so it shouldn't take that much work for this article to be in a place to be promoted to GA. Drop me a note here or on my talk page if you have any questions. Dana boomer (talk) 18:11, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Everything looks good, so I am passing the article to GA status. Nice work! Dana boomer (talk) 15:47, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

It does not look good at all. She is a real talent and deserves a better effort than what was given in this article. Someone who knows at least something about ballet needs to go over this and fix errors and more research is needed. Gingermint (talk) 23:35, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

BallerinaEdit

The article constantly referred to her as a "ballerina." She is actually a danseuse. She wants to become a ballerina. Now, I am not a giant fan of ballet, but even I know that it is the height of childish ignorance to think that a ballerina is just a female ballet dancer. The writing of this article could be better and really needs a going-ver by someone who actually knows something about dance and, particularly, ballet. It is also pretty shy on research. Gingermint (talk) 23:28, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Now that she has been promoted to principal dancer, she is a ballerina. --Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 19:57, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

A thoughtEdit

In the lead section (although not necessarily the body), I'd suggest "Copeland became the first Black woman" rather than "Copeland became the first African American woman". Professional dancers tend to move between countries quite a lot, and in this context "first African American" could give the impression—partcularly to non-US readers to whom the term "African American" isn't as familiar—that there had been other black women to hold the position and she was just the first to be a US citizen. ‑ Iridescent 20:35, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

  • Sure, can do—I posted here as it's not really a FAC issue, and I know from experience that FACs with a lot of discussion sometimes put other people off participating. ‑ Iridescent 00:27, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

This is a problematic thought on many points. The first is that Misty has already traveled the world as part of ABT, an American company, and did not change her racial heritage or her national citizenship. If either of those change in the future, than maybe this point mught hold water, but currently it does not. Secondly, if we change this for Misty for this reason, then we have to go around not just Wiki, but a great many other publications and cultural papers and books to make sure no other African American's ethnicity is misunderstood by non-Americans. Why stop at Misty? However, we could hand people a digital copy of her DNA and this could still be misunderstood, due to language barriers, if nothing else. The solution offered by Iridescent could in no way solve the problem she suggests. Third, the most polite term really goes back to asking the person what they choose to honor for their lives. On Misty's on website she chooses African American. "Rising star Misty Copeland makes history as the first African American Female Principal Dancer with the prestigious American Ballet Theatre." Mistycopeland.com 2601:147:C002:D83A:9119:D26F:59A4:1D1D (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 11:26, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

External links modifiedEdit

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 7 external links on Misty Copeland. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

As of February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{sourcecheck}} (last update: 15 July 2018).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 04:25, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modifiedEdit

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 external links on Misty Copeland. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

As of February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{sourcecheck}} (last update: 15 July 2018).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 22:09, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

New bookEdit

Can anyone find a reliable source for this new book to be released on September 27.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:10, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

The publisher's page is sufficient evidence that it exists, but I don't see any reviews yet. They've got to be coming soon. -- Ssilvers (talk) 18:33, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

One she wrote: https://www.amazon.com/Life-Motion-Ballerina-Misty-Copeland/dp/1476737983 Coauthored: https://www.amazon.com/Firebird-Misty-Copeland/dp/0399166157 photography book: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/misty-copeland-photo-book_us_57e2a14ae4b0e28b2b5161b4 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:147:C002:D83A:9119:D26F:59A4:1D1D (talk) 11:32, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

External links modifiedEdit

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Misty Copeland. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

As of February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{sourcecheck}} (last update: 15 July 2018).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 13:48, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

External links modified (February 2018)Edit

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Misty Copeland. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

As of February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{sourcecheck}} (last update: 15 July 2018).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 16:43, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

Reputation section neededEdit

The main omission in this article, IMO, is a "Reputation" section that describes the reception of Copeland by reputable ballet critics at various stages of her career. If anyone feels able to provide this, then I think the article could be updated and brought to FAC. -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:14, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

  • Ssilvers, I was about to ping you about this page being kept up to date. I know you have eyes on this page, but was wondering if you have time to update the last two years of her career. I wonder why you think it is any more ready for FAC than it was in the 2016 nom otherwise as well.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 01:31, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
  • The main problem I had in 2016 (not the only one, but by far the biggest one) was that there was no reputation section. If there were a good reputation section, I think we could push it towards FAC. Without a reputation section, frankly, I don't think it should be GA. -- Ssilvers (talk) 02:59, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Websites featured onEdit

https://mistycopeland.com https://www.abt.org/people/misty-copeland/ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ8ErQgDyWNJJqun803FkQw https://www.biography.com/people/misty-copeland Pretty.Pointe (talk) 02:37, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

What's wrong? Why isn't the "Infobox" displaying like it should?Edit

I see that the "Infobox" on this isn't being displayed like it should. What's wrong? All is see is this: "Template:Infobox dancer= Misty Copeland." Why isn't it displaying properly like it should? Could it be fixed by anyone who knows how to fix it? - Frschoonover, Feb. 24, 2020

Please sign your Talk page contributions by adding four tildes, which will automatically add your name and the date stamp. Also, it's best to keep your talk page comments together in one paragraph to make the Talk page easier to read. To answer your questions, the problem was caused by some silly vandalism. I've reverted the changes. -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:00, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
Return to "Misty Copeland" page.