Talk:Mckenna Grace

Infobox image

The infobox image was changed to show Mckenna Grace with a huge grin. File:Mckenna grace 2023 3.jpg While this isn't a bad image I think an image with a huge grin is not the best choice for an encyclopedia article. There is another image from the same time that show Grace more clearly and with only a slight smile File:Mckenna grace 2023 1.jpg which I believe would be a more appropriate image for an encyclopedia as it shows her face more clearly allowing readers to more easily identify her (a huge open mouth grin would not be acceptable on a passport photo, and a more subtle expression seems more appropriate for an encyclopedia). Another editor rejected this image and reverted[1] claiming the image quality is insufficient (seems fine to me, maybe marginally less sharp perhaps) and that the eyeline directs readers to the right off the page (again clarity seems more important to me than an image where Grace is looking straight at the camera).

TLDR: I would urge editor to consider a different Infobox image showing the person with a more neutral expression. -- 109.255.172.191 (talk) 16:47, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Mckenna Grace/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: MyCatIsAChonk (talk · contribs) 12:13, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your reviews on Oliver and LWT lists- happy to review this! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 12:13, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Pamzeis, done with the review. Just a few small things to clean up and it's ready for GA! Nice job! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 13:34, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

My true intention behind reviewing your lists was to make you my slave and feel obligated to review everything I nominated!^{[just kidding]} But anyways, I've responded to your comments below. Let me know if you have any other issues! ​Pamzeis (talk) 02:10, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

I shall take the role of Court Reviewer of the High Castle of Pamzeis with great honor! But, don't worry, I'm a strong believer in quid pro quo. Thanks for addressing the concerns- good for GA! Nice work! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 11:14, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	In 2017, Grace stated she would attend a creative writing workshop with other home-schooled students once a week. - This is a bit confusing; is she attending it after this statement? Is this her reflecting and saying "I would attend classes each day in elementary school..."? A moment to reflect on our favorite WP:INTOTHEWOULDS  Fixed ...recommended traveling to Los Angeles, California... - expand the WL to Cali as well: Los Angeles, California.  Done ...which disappointed critics. - Did her performance disappoint critics? Did the film dissapoint? What was dissapointing? Revised In a review mxdwn.com lauded her... - comma after "review", or perhaps just cut "in a review" altogether  Done but kept "in a review" because I think it makes it flow a bit better. I'm not entirely against cutting it though. "Stated" is used twelve times in the article; I'd suggest mixing it up, using said, opined and wrote for reviewers, etc... of course, be wary of MOS:SAID And I was super wary of overusing "described" and "commented". Never occurred to me that I overused "stated"... Wl scoliosis under "Personal life"  Not done because it's already linked in "Music career", though this maybe a case of WP:IAR given its significance Under "Awards and nominations", the small text and footnote "shared with others" would make more sense if attached to the "Won" cell. Also, put shared with others inside the efn: "Grace shared the win with others: Brooklynn..."  Done Prose is clear and free of typos.
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.	Complies with MoS standards for layout and fiction- lead is well-written.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.	Refs are placed in a proper "References" section.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).	Most sources are to entertainment websites or magazines, and some are to review sites (e.g. Rotten Tomatoes) and music streaming services (Apple Music). All reliable in their usage.
	2c. it contains no original research.	Spotchecking the following, chosen at random: Ref 10 (Ng 2013): good Ref 23 (Kroll 2015): good Ref 29 (Roeper 2017): good Ref 37 (Andreeva 2018): good Ref 42 (Rife 2018): good Ref 57 (D'Angelo 2020): good Ref 73 (Lambe 2021): good Ref 85 (Grace 2021): good for the second sentence, but does not support Throughout filming, her portrayal of the character shifted significantly; she originally played Phoebe as robotic as possible, but director Jason Reitman asked her to be more expressive. It's not in the text, but the YouTube video above the excerpts of the interview. At around 12:16 and 13:00–13:25. Ref 106 (Fienberg 2022): good Ref 113 (D'Alessandro 2023): good Ref 128 (Today 2022): good Ref 141 (Fahey 2022): good Ref 154 (Bolton 2022): good All come up clear, no OR visible.
	2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.	Earwig shows no violations. High scores on some sources are due to names and quotes.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.	Addresses her early life, acting career, music career, influences, and personal life. All good here.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).	Article stays focused throughout.
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.	No editorial bias visible.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.	There have been a number of revisions in the last month that were reverted due to lack of sources, which is justified but I felt was worth noting. The reversions went unchallenged- no edit warring present.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.	Images are properly CC tagged.
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.	Grace cites American singers Lana Del Rey and Taylor Swift (right) as her main influences. - (left) needs to be placed after Lana Del Ray, otherwise it's inconsistent.  Done Images are relevant and properly captioned.
	7. Overall assessment.

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: withdrawn by nominator, closed by AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 09:47, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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Mckenna Grace

• ... that Mckenna Grace's mom told her she was "barely even human" when she was four? Source: [2]
  • ALT1: ... that Mckenna Grace (pictured) was taught acting by Morgan Fairchild's sister? Source: [3]
  • ALT2: ... that Mckenna Grace (pictured) has played younger versions of the titular characters in Captain Marvel, Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, and I, Tonya? Source: I mean you can just verify it [4], but in the article, it's sourced to [5], [6], [7]
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Music of Spider-Verse

Improved to Good Article status by Pamzeis (talk). Self-nominated at 13:38, 6 August 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Mckenna Grace; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• General eligibility:
• New enough:
• Long enough:
• Other problems:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing:
• Neutral:
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
• Other problems:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited:
• Interesting:
• Other problems:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: All is clear. Article was promoted to Good Article status on August 6, 2023. IMO the original hook is interesting. RV (talk) 17:26, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

@RAJIVVASUDEV: (that's impossible to spell) I just remembered that I have another Grace-related nomination at Template:Did you know nominations/List of Mckenna Grace performances. I've suggested a multi-article hook over there, though I don't think ALT0 or 1 would work. Not really sure on the procedure about multi-article hooks 'cuz I've never done one though. Pamzeis (talk) 08:39, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

The suggested hook is clearly present in the article and complies with the requirement. What is causing concern? I don't see any issues here regarding this article and ALTo. Thanks RV (talk) 09:26, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

So basically, I forgot that I had an open nomination for List of Mckenna Grace performances, which is related topic (if you couldn't tell already lol). I wanted to do a multi-article nomination/hook and since that nom has been open longer I dropped it over there. The list article doesn't mention the human quote or her acting teacher, so I don't think they can be used. The new multi-article hook has been approved at Template:Did you know nominations/List of Mckenna Grace performances now, so I guess I should withdraw this one, and we can continue any further discussion over there. Pamzeis (talk) 14:53, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

I will leave this to you and the promoter. Thanks RV (talk) 05:50, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Nominator has expressed a preference to withdraw. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 09:46, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 09:49, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that child actress Mckenna Grace has over 70 credits? Source: [8]
  • ALT1: ... that Mckenna Grace is the most credited child actor? Source: [9]
  • ALT2: ... that Mckenna Grace has portrayed younger versions of Tonya Harding, Sabrina Spellman, and Captain Marvel? Source: [10]
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Book of Roads and Kingdoms

Created by Pamzeis (talk). Self-nominated at 04:58, 14 July 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/List of Mckenna Grace performances; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• Interesting hook. The article has a good introductory paragraph before going into the list which is properly referenced. I suggest to use ALT2 as the hook, as I believe that it can attract Wikipedia readers and users who are fans of the characters played by Grace which are mentioned in it. Toadboy123 (talk) 05:52, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

@Toadboy123: I just thought of an idea for a hook; IDK if it would work and it's exactly at 200 characters, but...

• ALT3: ... that Mckenna Grace has portrayed younger versions of Captain Marvel, Emma Swan, Daphne Blake, Tonya Harding, Sabrina Spellman, Caroline Forbes, Madison Lake, Theo Crain, and Abby Fisher?

I think it kinda gets the reader to think, "wow, that's a lot"... y'know? I ordered them by which are most well-known by the GP (I think). Pamzeis (talk) 13:09, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

@Pamzeis: I would suggest it would be good idea if you just go with ALT2. ALT3 makes the hook too cluttered but if you would want to proceed with ALT3, then remove characters which do not have a linked article in order to reduce cluttering of the hook.Toadboy123 (talk) 15:52, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

• @Toadboy123: Mckenna Grace recently got promoted to GA-status, so I was wondering whether we could do multi-article hook. I believe ALT0, 1 and 3 wouldn't work in this case, but for ALT2:
  • ALT2a: ... that Mckenna Grace (pictured) has portrayed younger versions of Tonya Harding, Sabrina Spellman, and Captain Marvel?

I've never done a multi-article hook before, so I'm not really sure on the procedure though. Pamzeis (talk) 08:36, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Mckenna Grace

Also, there's a possible image for this nomination and the QPQ for Mckenna Grace is Template:Did you know nominations/Music of Spider-Verse. Pamzeis (talk) 08:41, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

ALT2a approved. Toadboy123 (talk) 14:39, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you so much! Sorry for pinging you twice on a nom you were fine with to begin. Pamzeis (talk) 14:58, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Copyedit request

Hey, Pamzeis, good work on the article. There isn't much I had to tweak. A few questions:

• In 2022, Grace wrote, executive produced, and starred in a sequel to The Bad Seed [...]

  Formatting and wikilink in original. Any particular reason why the film isn't being referred to by its actual name? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 19:28, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

  No, not really. I just put it like that because.... I felt like it lol. Pamzeis (talk) 06:17, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

   Done. Changed it to the film's title. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 00:12, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

• She trained in cheer, gymnastics, tap, and ballet—as well as participating in beauty pageants, where she was crowned "Tiny Miss Texas".

  Going to assume that she doesn't do this anymore? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 19:28, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

  Yeah, no, she doesn't from what I've seen. Pamzeis (talk) 06:17, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

   Done. Changed it to past tense. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 00:12, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Looking forward to your responses. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 19:28, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

@Tenryuu: Responded to your questions. Lemme know if anything else needs to be clarified. Pamzeis (talk) 06:17, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

@Pamzeis: I think that's everything. Just wanted to point out that I removed

The film tells the story of Mary Adler (Grace), an intellectually gifted seven-year-old who becomes the subject of a custody battle between her maternal uncle and maternal grandmother.

because it seemed irrelevant to who Grace is. Best of luck with the nomination! —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 00:12, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Strange order

The article includes She took a college course on media aesthetics in 2021, in which she wrote about The Handmaid's Tale approximately four times in the "Early life section" Outside of this not being in her "early life" (there's a few other sentences there which also don't appear to be appropriate for this section title), this also does not adequately introduce what "The Handmaid's Tale (TV show)" is. This is only done much later in the article, when it states: In 2021, Grace began recurring on the Hulu dystopian series The Handmaid's Tale, an adaptation of the 1985 novel of the same name :3 F4U (they/it) 14:31, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

It's difficult to get everything in perfect chronological order, but there are other ways to organize. The section discusses her education, so the info about a college course fits. Educational details should not be in the Career section. I don't see a need to explain The Handmaid's Tale any further in that section. There is a link if anyone wishes to get more details. Much more detail appears later in the article about her acting career. Sundayclose (talk) 14:49, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

@Freedom4U and Sundayclose: The article is currently a featured article candidate, here - Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Mckenna Grace/archive1 I would encourage you both to make any comments which may improve the article there. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:04, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Infobox image

Just saying... that the current infobox image is horrible and does her no good. Might do well to change it. 103.177.232.33 (talk) 19:21, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Hiya. Do you have any specific concerns about the image? 'Cuz ATM, it just seems to be a case of WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT. Pamzeis (talk) 00:57, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

I complained above about the previous image, and just wanted to note that ip103 is a different person, I don't know what their specific complaints might be. The current image is a marginal improvement over the previous image (from the same photoshoot) where McKenna was smiling so hard she it was almost wikt:gurning. As this is supposed to be an encyclopedia I still would prefer a more serious and formal image but from the available images on Wikimedia Commons this one is adequate. I still think the non-smiling image would be better. -- 109.77.197.70 (talk) 20:32, 13 October 2023 (UTC)