Talk:Māgha Pūjā

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Content which cannot be linked to subject

The following content I could not link to the subject of Māgha Pūjā. Though it is about the same time period, there is no single source that connects the events mentioned to the Māgha Pūjā celebration. So I am parking it here for the time being, until a connection can be found in secondary sources.

=== Myanmar ===

The Full Moon of Tabaung also coincides with the National Day of the Pa'O people, traditionally set on the day of King Suriyachanda's birth.

References

Edited.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 10:06, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Unsourced content

Moved from the article:

Holding flowers, incense and a lighted candle, the monks and congregation members circumambulate clockwise for three times, around the ubosot, once for each of the Three Jewels: the Buddha, the teaching of the Buddha, and the Saṅgha. Furthermore, people will 'make merit' (Thai: tham bun) by going to temples and by joining in with activities. For example, observing the Five or Eight Precepts (Thai: rap sin), practicing meditation and mental discipline, staying in the temple, and wearing white robes. This is usually done for a number of days.

--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 19:10, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Magha Puja/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Vami IV (talk · contribs) 17:21, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

Opening statement

In reviews I conduct, I may make small copyedits. These will only be limited to spelling and punctuation (removal of double spaces and such). I will only make substantive edits that change the flow and structure of the prose if I previously suggested and it is necessary. For replying to Reviewer comment, please use  Done,  Fixed,  Added,  Not done,  Doing..., or  Removed, followed by any comment you'd like to make. I will be crossing out my comments as they are redressed, and only mine. A detailed, section-by-section review will follow. —♠Vami_IV†♠ 17:21, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

Disclaimer: I am in good standing with the nominee, Farang Rak Tham, and have previously reviewed some of his articles. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 17:21, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

Broadness

Of the articles of yours I've reviewed, this is easily the least-developed, I think. And the shortest, of course. The article has a pretty tight focus on Thailand which, understandable, the subject matter began there, but makes it clear that Magha Puja is celebrated in much of Southeast Asia in addition to Thailand. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 17:21, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

 Doing... Other Southeast and South Asian countries that celebrate Magha tend to usually do so within the context of some other festival, and Magha is less important. Also, other countries apart from Thailand that celebrate Magha tend to have less developed journalism. Still, I will try to find more sources about other countries.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 12:30, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

 Done. Expanded considerably. This time, I also used news sources that don't register much on Google News, especially Birmese and Cambodian news outlets.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 22:05, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

• Have you considered merging the "Themes" and "Celebrations and observances" sections?

• '"Themes" is more about the meaning, whereas "Celebrations and observances"deal with the practices.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 12:30, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

• Is there nothing else to add to the "History" section? I'd like to see dates or ranges for the spread of this holiday to the other SEA countries.

• See above.  Doing....--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 12:30, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

•  Not done. Couldn't find more about this, apart from some bits in the sources used on the Thai Wikipedia. But that is only about Thailand.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 22:05, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

• If at all possible, I'd like to see more about Magha Puja's relationship with other holidays and festivals. Its competition with Valentines seems pretty interesting.

 Doing...--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 13:02, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

•  Doing... I found a bit more information on the Thai Wikipedia. Will update later.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 22:05, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

•  Done. Added all I could scrape from Thai sources.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 19:19, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

• Could you explain briefly what merit-making is in the prose text? The how is here, but not the what or why.

•  Done. I have put it in a note.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 12:30, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

Prose issues

• A more effective use of Rama IV's reign for dating in the lead would be something like Celebration of Māgha Pūjā is first known of in the modern period, with the institution of it in Thailand, by King Rama IV in the mid-19th century.

 Fixed--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 12:30, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

• and after the announcement a miraculous earthquake followed. I would hardly call an earthquake presaging the death of Christ or Mohammed "miraculous".

•  Replaced by supernatural. Note that the Buddha's death and attainment of Parinirvana is not seen as a sad thing by many Buddhists.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 12:30, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

• Each mention of the Regions of Thailand should be chaperoned with a "the". See: [...] including the Shwe Settaw Pagoda Festival in the Magwe Region's Minbu Township [...]

•  Done.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 12:30, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

• The Wiki Commons category link should be under "See also"

• There appear to be differences of opinion on this. I followed this guideline.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 12:30, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
•  Done.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 18:54, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

• Would it be possible to cram the "Translations of" template into the main infobox with an embed parameter? You could make this collapsible with the template I used at Ludwigsburg Palace.

• I couldn't find a parameter that it could fit in. So i have removed the translations infobox entirely.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 12:44, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

• two of the Buddha's disciples as his main disciples Replace one of these "disciples" with something else.

•  Done.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 08:48, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

October 2019

Due to problems with the Internet provider, some of my edits have not succeeded. I will try again later. Apologies.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 12:30, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

This time, it did succeed.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 13:20, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

There are bits of pieces I have been able to add to the article, mostly from French-language sources. I have noticed a number of sources such as this one which have copied from this Wikipedia article, which only indicates how little info there is available and how much this Wiki article is needed. Doing...--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 19:55, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

I have added quite some content now. I am RX-ing two more sources, but I don't expect miracles there. I have asked a Cambodian journalist I know to contribute sources, but no response yet. If you think the article is still lacking, the only thing I can think of is buying a subscription on the Matichon Thai news clipping archive, and scrape from there. But it would only be about Thailand...--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 19:24, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Oh, and ping, ping to you.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 19:25, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Article is broad enough now by my perception. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 22:34, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

GA progress

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 23:46, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that the government of Thailand branded the Buddhist celebration Magha Puja as a day of pure love and gratitude, to compete with Valentine's Day? Source:"ปี พ.ศ. 2549 รัฐบาลไทยได้ประกาศให้วันมาฆบูชาเป็น "วันกตัญญูแห่งชาติ" เนื่องจากในสังคมไทยปัจจุบัน หญิงสาวมักเสียตัวในวันวาเลนไทน์ หลายหน่วยงานจึงพยายามรณรงค์ให้วันมาฆบูชาเป็นวันแห่งความรัก (อันบริสุทธิ์) แทน" ["In 2006, the government of Thailand announced that Magha Puja was to be celebrated as the 'Day of Gratitude'. Since presently in Thailand young girls tend to lose their virginity on Valentine's Day, many organizations therefore attempt to promote Magha Puja as a day of (morally pure) love instead."] (Thai Rath, 2018)
  • ALT1:... that on the Magha Puja celebration of 2019, 56% of Thai people reported that they would give alms to Buddhist monks or do other good deeds? Source: "สำหรับกิจกรรมที่จะประชาชนจะทำในสัปดาห์ส่งเสริมพระพุทธศาสนาเนื่องในเทศกาลมาฆบูชา ประจำปี 2562 ร้อยละ 56.17 บอกว่า ตักบาตร ..." ["As for activities that the public will do in the week of promotion of Buddhism at the occasion of Magha Puja this year, 56.17% said giving alms to Buddhist monks."](Daily News, 2019)

• Reviewed: Did you know nominations/A Pittance of Time
• Comment: Sources are in Thai language.

Improved to Good Article status by Farang Rak Tham (talk) and Thanissaro (talk). Nominated by Farang Rak Tham (talk) at 09:46, 24 October 2019 (UTC).

Substantial GA, on excellent sources, foreign sources accepted AGF, no copyvio obvious. The image is licensed and a good illustration, but you need to connect it by some (pictured) to the hook. "2019's" is strange, but I prefer the original anyway. In the article, "Western converts in the West" seems a bit redundant. Lovely topic and article! - I have a peer review open, Clara Schumann, hint hint. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:43, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

Thanks and good to hear from you again. I've fixed the redundancy in the article, as well as the style error in the alt hook. With regard to the [pictured] note, I'm not sure where to put this. What do you suggest?

I'll take a look at the peer review later.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 18:51, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

If I knew a good place for pictured, I would just have placed it ;) - One more little thing: the "Robertson, Alec" ref is not used. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:07, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

I have removed the obsolete reference in the article, as well as the picture here, the latter since there is not direct relation between the depiction and the text in any of the two hooks.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 22:41, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

thank you! I like the original much better! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:35, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: Er, which original?--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 17:43, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

DYK speak: the first hook, vs, the ALT1. The one with pure love and gratitude, vs. figures ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:46, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

Gerda Arendt Do you think the alt 1 hook would improve if I wrote more than half instead of a percentage?--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 13:50, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Not to me, I'd still prefer pure love to alms giving. But ALT1 is approved, and perhaps the prep builder feels differently. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:07, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Okeedokee.--Farang Rak Tham (Talk) 21:20, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Article title

I previously reverted the renaming of the article from Magha Puja to Māgha Pūjā with the rationale, "This should go through a full discussion, as most general sources omit the diacritics." I won't revert again just yet, but would like to see some arguments in favour of including diacritics in the title. --Paul_012 (talk) 22:08, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

Māgha Pūjā is a Pali term, and the correct spelling is Māgha Pūjā. What "general sources" do seems to me to be irrelevant. --Khiikiat (talk) 00:13, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

Per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English), the term's Pali origin is irrelevant as long as there is a form consistently used in English language reliable sources. Specifically, WP:DIACRITICS says,

The use of modified letters (such as accents or other diacritics) in article titles is neither encouraged nor discouraged; when deciding between versions of a word which differ in the use or non-use of modified letters, follow the general usage in reliable sources that are written in the English language (including other encyclopedias and reference works).

The article title should reflect whether the most English-language reliable sources opt to include the diacritic, not just because the IAST does. --Paul_012 (talk) 21:49, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

I like the diacritics, they are a good reminder that human language contains a much broader array of sounds than those found in English... and besides that, they look cool Sudzydoogiedawg (talk) 12:39, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

Meak Bochea in Cambodia is today, 5 Feb 2023, citation 2 is incorrect for 2023

I changed the the 2023 date to 5 Feb. I live in Cambodia and verified the date with my Khmer friend. Pretty much a subdued day here, not noisy like Khmer New Year (Song Kran) or Chinese New Year. There are ongoing minor fireworks displays at the wats. Sudzydoogiedawg (talk) 12:23, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

Read: Cambodia celebrates Meak Bochea Day at Oudong, khmertimeskh.com 6 Feb

Interesting read, Cambodia and Thailand celebrate on different days Sudzydoogiedawg (talk) 01:41, 6 February 2023 (UTC)