Talk:Henry Street salamander tunnels

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Lightburst talk 16:35, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

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Amphibian tunnel in Germany

• ... that the Henry Street salamander tunnels (example pictured) in North Amherst, Massachusetts, were the first amphibian tunnels in the United States?

• Source: source

• ALT1: ... that before the Henry Street salamander tunnels (example pictured) were built in North Amherst, Massachusetts, volunteers carried spotted salamanders across Henry Street in buckets? Source: source
• ALT2: ... that spotted salamanders in North Amherst, Massachusetts, use underground tunnels (example pictured) to cross a street? Source: source
• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Max Whitlock

Created by Bruxton (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 148 past nominations.

Bruxton (talk) 05:00, 21 May 2024 (UTC).

• Reviewing X (talk) 06:26, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Very interesting article. Needed a good chunk of minor copy editing, which I've done. It's good to go. Strong preference for ALT0 with possible wikilinking to amphibians. Given its subject, I couldn't think of a relevant infobox. X (talk) 06:36, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Wonderful.

Just wanted to drop by and say: this is the exact type of unbiased, fact-focused, subtly humorous, and thought-provoking content that I come to Wikipedia to read. Kudos to writers and nominators. ~~~~ Evedawn99 (talk) 03:49, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

DYK hook discussions

For the record, the wonderful comment above arises from the article's posting at DYK with the hook:

• ... how salamanders cross the road (pictured)?

Related discussions include:

• Wikipedia:Main_Page/Errors#Why_did_the_salamander_cross_the_road?
• Wikipedia_talk:Did_you_know#"First"_hooks

As the latter is quite detailed, it is repeated below

Andrew🐉(talk) 07:16, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

:For the one in prep 6 about the salamander tunnels, this journal article says "one of the first" and this environment organization says "possibly the first". Pinging nominator Bruxton SL93 (talk) 18:19, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

I see sources which say these were the first, but I also see sources which equivocate and say things such as what @Bruxton quoted above. We should go with the more conservative bunch and not claim a "first" that we can't back up. RoySmith (talk) 18:40, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

I think you mean SL93. I made it clearer. SL93 (talk) 18:44, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

RoySmith I see two alts. Maybe one of those could work. SL93 (talk) 18:47, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

ALT1 isn't bad, but how about a terser version of it:

ALT1a: ... that before the Henry Street tunnels (example pictured) were built, volunteers carried spotted salamanders across the street in buckets?

What I don't like about all of these, however, is that we're talking specifically about the Henry Street tunnels but the photo is of some other tunnel. That seems distinctly sub-optimal. RoySmith (talk) 20:24, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

It seems like this ought to be an extremely easy photo to get, too. Msact, Daderot, Ncnorie, Faolin42, Kithira have all taken photos in Amherst and have edited en.wiki recently. Valereee (talk) 12:00, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

I got some pictures. Will upload tonight. Faolin42 (talk) 18:49, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

@Faolin42 Awesome, dude! RoySmith (talk) 18:53, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

I've added the images at Category:Henry Street salamander tunnels Faolin42 (talk) 22:50, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Cool. File:Henry Street southern salamander tunnel west entrance, Cushman MA.jpg would be perfect, but for some reason when I try to add it to the article, the editor won't let me. I'm guessing it's just some kind of cache or index delay problem, so I'll just try again later. RoySmith (talk) 22:59, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Wow @Faolin42:. excellent. I got interested in these tunnels last year when I saw a toad tunnel in a post office parking lot. I am excited to see the article run. So glad you have such great images of the HS tunnels. Bravo! I never even thought to see if a WP editor lived near. And sorry I have been MIA for a few days. Bruxton (talk) 04:03, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

That is awesome! Great photos, too! Valereee (talk) 12:26, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Glad I could help! Faolin42 (talk) 18:46, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

This is now in Prep 6 with the original "first" hook. I've recently edited the article to add that this emerging-traveling-mating is an event common among amphibians and known as a "Big Night" (sourced to Audubon). In addition to ALT1a, we could also use:

ALT2 ... that salamanders in Massachusetts use purpose-built tunnels under a road to get to their Big Night?

Ping to Bruxton. Valereee (talk) 15:36, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

According to WP:DYKMOS, we're not required to start hooks with "that". So, we could do:

ALT3: ... why salamanders cross the road? RoySmith (talk) 16:55, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

I like that one, too! Valereee (talk) 17:06, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

I like that too but I'd suggest "how salamanders cross the road". Levivich (talk) 17:25, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Oh, even better! Valereee (talk) 18:29, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Valereee, I am ok with any hook - the buckets one interested me as well. Regarding the original "first" hook, I imagine that somewhere in the US, amphibians used culverts prior to the Henry tunnels. And if we cannot prove these were the first I am ok with other hooks. Also I uploaded my pics of that toad tunnel and it is decidedly less impressive than the pics by Faolin42 of the tunnels under Henry. Bruxton (talk) 00:18, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Bruxton, great. Can someone please approve:

ALT3a: ... how salamanders cross the road (pictured)?

It would also make a good quirky, but I like the image a lot. Valereee (talk) 00:44, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

I've promoted ALT3a to Prep. Schwede66 21:35, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

I liked your pictures, especially that there was a sign and a little house. I went back over the articles for the Henry Street tunnels and realized there is a salamander sculpture/path on the Cushman Common, inspired by the Henry Street salamanders. See https://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/wm115XV_Crossroads_Salamander_Amherst_Massachusetts and many other references. Cushman is the village in Amherst where the tunnels are located. I have good pictures of the installation that I took 11 years ago, similar to the above link, but probably can't upload them because of copyright :-(. Faolin42 (talk) 00:47, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

@Faolin42, because the art is under copyright? I think we can upload images of US public art, like here? Valereee (talk) 00:58, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

I will upload, and we'll see how it goes... Faolin42 (talk) 01:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

I tried to upload an image of the Crossroads Salamander public sculpture, but the Upload Wizard stopped me because 'someone else's work is visible in the work' I'm submitting. I'll read through the FAQ's and take it to the Village Pump tomorrow to see if I can upload it. Faolin42 (talk) 01:20, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

I keep imagining a salamander traffic report: "Well, the Big Night is finally here, and traffic at the Henry Street Tunnel is backed up for yards. Tonight's forecast, coming up right after the news." Levivich (talk) 00:33, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

@Levivich: Imagine the slippery creatures before the bucket-brigade and the tunnels... oh the humanity! By the look of Faolin42's pictures, the Salamanders got a lot more attention than the filthy wart-ridden toads. File:Toad tunnel entrance.jpg. They do have a playful sign and a mini toad-house at the site File:Davis Toad Tunnel entrance.jpg. "Toad Hollow". The salamander tunnels are more impressive than this toad tunnel - I do not even know how a toad would find it. As I remember it took me a while to locate it! And then media outlets mocked the effort. Checking now, it was the Daily Show in 1999. Bruxton (talk) 01:14, 12 June 2024 (UTC)