Talk:Enter Sandman

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Why no mention of the video? And why is the song interpretation written from a single point of view? — Preceding unsigned comment added by GeorgeBuchanan (talk • contribs) 17:27, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

"True meaning of the song"?

Shouldn't the "True meaning of the song" section be removed or heavily changed? That's about as non-encyclopedic and POV as I've seen here on Wikipedia... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.194.246.46 (talk) 17:58, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

the song deals with nightmares? the videoclip is about nightmares, the song is about families being ripped apart. get the facts straight. im changing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.88.53.32 (talk) 18:37, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Cleanup

I've requested a cleanup for this article, because it doesn't cite its sources, has no tracklisting, uses a weird infobox for a single and doesn't make use of paragraphs.—♦♦ SʘʘTHING^(Я) 15:09, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Removed citation tag at the top of page, since most sections have citations added. Added a few citation tags to certain statements that still require verification Pnkrockr 15:57, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

and who gives a shit will sing the number 21 heavy metal song enter sandman in schoolwave 2007

Megadeth song resemblance

I think there is a really strong resemblance between the lyrics of the Megadeth song "Go to Hell" recorded and released in 1990, potentially released before Metallica began recording Enter Sandman. Also, the "Go to Hell" also has children or someone with a childlike voice repeat the lullaby/prayer/whatever throughout the song, as was done in Enter Sandman. I think it's highly likely that one band ripped off the other, and considering the timetable of recording, I think metallica ripped off megadeth--Matteo (talk) 00:45, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Go To Hell was released on the Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey soundtrack only about a month before Enter Sandman was released. Given that Sandman was written long before the release date of the album, there is no rip off there. KingLaffo (talk) 01:30, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Rammstein song ressemblance

I find Mein Herz Brennt ressembles this song a lot (They're both metal, they both talk about nightmares, specifically children's) so, could I add that? Misteryoshi 13:21, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Are they similar musically in some way (I.E, similar riffs, tempo, vocals, structure, etc)? Heavy Metal has hundreds of subgenres, Rammstein being Industrial rock/metal, where Metallica is more Thrash/Traditional metal. Just because two bands fall under the giant umbrella of heavy metal doesn't mean they're exactly alike. Cronos12390 09:28, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

No, they aren't similar, at all. Both are metal (which, being a very broad genre, says nothing) and both revolve around nightmares (but in so totally different ways). That's about all they have in common.

Mislabeled

I'm pretty sure Metallica isn't heavy metal, they are a thrash band. should someone change this?

Well, this is completely dependent upon which time period of Metallica's you're talking about. From Kill 'Em All to ...And Justice For All, they were a thrash metal band. The general consensus on the Black Album is that it was a straightforward heavy metal release. Considering this one is off the black album, they really should be referred to as heavy metal. Cronos12390 09:31, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Metallica is a member of the "Big Four", a group of the most influential Thrash Bands. Being such, I think that they should be labeled as a Thrash Metal band. All bands change their style slightly over the years, but it is commonly agreed upon that Metallica is still considered a thrash metal band. The song is written by the band thrash metal band Metallica. It doesn't really matter what "style" they WERE considered at that time. We're talking present tense here.

Who are these people that still consider Metallica a thrash band? It's "commonly agreed upon" that Metallica is now a heavy metal band, and that's being generous considering it's the post "St.Anger" era. So, by your logic, if I have a band that plays death metal, then we start playing pop music, we should still be called a death metal band? Even on our pop releases? Metallica has not changed their style "slightly"... Listen to Load, then listen to Kill Em All, then listen to St.Anger, and you will have VERY different styles. So what if they were influential? We're talking about this particular work, at this particular point in time, so it doesn't matter. And I was TOTALLY unaware that Metallica WAS one of the big four of thrash. Oh, and please sign your comments with four tildes (~). Cronos12390 03:21, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

¨

Yeah, if you listen to the song, then you listen to metal militia, you will see that enter sandman is in no way thrash. --Matteo (talk) 03:21, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

you people & your tiresome categories.... if something doesn't fit in a box, do you feel lost or confused or something? can't you find it in the record shops? jesus fucking christ, give it a rest! no-one except you cares whether it's thrash or metal or blues or whatever. it's metallica.

You're quite welcome to get your information somewhere else. Cheers, - FlightTime (open channel) 19:53, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Backmasking message

The refrain has been confirmed to be saying, "I am the snake, yeah the snake" by original research over and over, but that sentence is written in an unconfirming tone. Could someone change this?

Huh? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.160.128.28 (talk) 20:08, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

what? --Matteo (talk) 08:26, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Virginia Tech

Under the reception section, could someone add a reference to Virginia Tech's use of "Enter Sandman." The Virginia Tech football team enters Lane Stadium to this song for every home game. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.1.35.183 (talk) 02:05, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

can I be mentioned in the article, too? I've whistled the song before, while walking about once, I think...--Matteo (talk) 08:28, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

LOL, Matteo ... I removed the ref to Billy Wagner, who is no longer pitching for the Mets, having been traded to the Red Sox. Not sure if they are using the song, but he's indicated he would retire after this season. Besides, unlike Mo, who's been using the song for 15 years and is a future Hall of Famer, Wagner's ref seems insignificant at this point.

Metallica records video tribute recognizing VT's use of Enter Sandman as intro

GA pass

Very good article! If the lead is expanded a little bit then this has a chance of becoming featured. It meets all the criteria, well written, factually accurate, broad althought I would say pretty comprehensive, neutral, stable and media has correct rationales. Congratulations. T Rex | talk 05:48, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Copyedit

• Began with lead copyediting. Will work my way through the rest over the next 1-2 weeks. Leave comments here or at my talk page. Thanks! --Malachirality (talk) 01:32, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Hey, This song is also played as Tom Leykis introduces his show every single day on the Tom Leykis Show. The highest rated show in LA on FM Radio for men 18-34. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.180.224.245 (talk) 01:07, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Preliminary Issues

• I believe the "accolades" section should be trimmed to only the most respectable authorities on music and, more importantly, should be turned into prose. It would fit nicely as a paragraph in the release and reception section (perhaps following after the paragraph(s) on the critical reception?)
• Would also suggest longer quotations, perhaps of entire sentences (short, common, undistinctive phrases such as "the sound" do not need to be quoted).

--Malachirality (talk) 19:37, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

• I see your point about the accolades section and I agree. About the second part, do you have any specific places where do you want exact and longer quotations for me to research in the sources?--Serte ^{[ Talk · Contrib ]} 16:23, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

• For that second point, I just meant in general. Either paraphrase completely, or, if you feel a quote says something in a unique, powerful, or special way, then quote long phrases or entire sentences instead of fragments such as "the sound". If you have FA aspirations for this article, you might also want to take a look at the concerns being raised at this nom. --Malachirality (talk) 18:30, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

• The Release and Reception section already had some accolades, I added what I felt were the most important and removed the Accolades section.--Serte ^{[ Talk · Contrib ]} 13:05, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Writing and Recording

• "Hetfield did not come up with...lyrics for a long time": specify either the duration of time or give a date when lyrics were written.
• "The producing team spent much time": do you have specifics?
• Should the info about lyrics be moved to the next section? or do they belong in the first section? --Malachirality (talk) 20:12, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

• I can't specify the duration of time, because it were the band members themselves, Hetfield and Ulrich, who said the song did not have lyrics for a long time, but didn't mention how long it was. It was the first to be written and one of the last to have lyrics, that's what we know.
• Again, Randy Staub, the engineer said it was a "long time", but did not mention exactly how much.
• In my opinion, it should stay where it is, because that's about the writing part of the song as much as the "Hammett came up with the riff" thing is part of the writing of the song. The analysis to the lyrics and to the riff, that belongs to the next section, from my point of view.

Going back to the DVD to check out something, I noticed Randy Staub talked a lot about getting a sound from the drums similar to a live concert and that was why they spent so much time with microphones and different combinations. I'll probably add a mention to that later. Very good job on the copy editing this part, thanks. I'll try to be as helpful as I can, if you want me to do more, or anything, just tell me. We're here to cooperate.--Serte ^{[ Talk · Contrib ]} 16:23, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Music and Lyrics

• The third paragraph deals almost exclusively with the opinions of various music critics. Thus, it needs to be reorganized into the next section. This will also let you avoid having to repeat critics' names and credentials.
• I believe minor scales have lowercase lettering; major scales have uppercase lettering (i. e. "F Major" and "e minor"). Is the "E chord (guitar)" a major or minor chord?
• Please review the diffs to make sure meaning and source attribution has been maintained.

Thanks --Malachirality (talk) 23:28, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Music Video

• I have skipped "Release and Reception" for the time being, to give you time to incorporate the "accolades" section into the "critical reception" paragraph.
• The Andrew Blackie quote is cited twice. While this is a problem, it is made worse by the fact that the quote appears in two different contexts and is thus quite confusing.
• Could this section as a whole be merged into another section? It is very short to justify its own section.

--Malachirality (talk) 06:32, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I think I have addressed all the concerns you raised. About merging the Music video section into another... Well, I think the Music Video is notable enough to have its own section. However, it is indeed short. But, I also don't see where it would fit in another section. Unless you have a suggestion, I don't think it should be moved, but I'm open to hear your thoughts. If you want me to do anything else, just tell me. Thanks A LOT for your work.--Serte ^{[ Talk · Contrib ]} 13:35, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

• Can you address the first point in Music and Lyrics above? I strongly believe most of the third paragraph needs to be in the release and reception section. Only a few sentences that deal strictly with interpretation of the lyrics should stay. Everything else about opinions and criticism should be moved. --Malachirality (talk) 17:26, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I've already done that, haven't I? I've moved all those parts to the Release and reception section? Did you miss it?--Serte ^{[ Talk · Contrib ]} 18:55, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

• Oh I'm sorry. I didn't think to check the article itself; you didn't leave a note here, so I thought you'd missed it or something. Sorry --Malachirality (talk) 18:56, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok, ok. No problem (of course). Anything you need...--Serte ^{[ Talk · Contrib ]} 19:05, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Done

The biggest problem now is that there seems to be unintentional POV-pushing in the critical reception section. I noticed you took out one critic who talked about "sludgy riffs" and such. I think if criticism of the song exists in a reputable publication or critic somewhere, you need to include. Unless the song was truly universally praised (in which case you should say "universally acclaimed"), you need to show that you are at least trying to keep it neutral.

That said, it was a wonderful, fun, informative ce, and thanks a bunch for helping out. If you need a ce in the future, don't hesitate to drop me a note on my talk page. I'm gonna put this up for proofreading now, and the next step on your end would probably be to get a good peer review or A-class review. Good Luck! --Malachirality (talk) 19:27, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Great, thanks a lot for your help. I removed the "sludgy riffs" critic because it was the quote already mentioned in the music video section. Also, as a non-native speaker of English, I didn't perceive "sludgy riffs" as a critic but a description of the sound of the music and the guitars. At least that was how I saw it until now. ("“Enter Sandman” is given big-budget video treatment, combining flashing stills of the band performing with a narrative that suits the sludgy riffs and James Hetfield’s twisted lullaby lyric… though I didn’t really need to see a child almost getting run over by a truck.").

I didn't find any criticism in the places I searched for reviews (by professionals), but I'll check for reviews in even more places now. Thank you so much for your help. If this gets to be featured, Wikipedia can thank you.--Serte ^{[ Talk · Contrib ]} 19:47, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Bill Hicks

Maybe it can be mentioned somewhere that Hicks used the song as entrance music, numerous times I believe. Or maybe it's not that important. I don't know, maybe I'm just too much of a Hicks-fan. :D Gocsa (talk) 13:33, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Utilization of variations of the E/B♭

I think this line is highly doubtful - the riff is E and A on the main beats, and B♭ is introduced only as a transfer from the first to the latter.

VZakharov (talk) 19:18, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

TOM LEYKIS SHOW!

This song is played in the tom leykis show, when the host, tom does the Intro. please add that into the article.. It is the highest rated show in the LA area. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Srinivas666 (talk • contribs) 19:36, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

All I have to say is WOW

All song articles should modeled after this one, it is so well written. --Crackthewhip775 (talk) 00:08, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Composition

What is written there is right except that this song is played with guitars and bass tuned half a step down. Instead of E minor, it is an Eb minor, instead of F# it is an F.

Of course you can play it in standard tuning (EADGBE for guitars and EADG for bass) but if you try to play along with the song, you will see. --NickInMesa (talk) 15:26, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Plagiarism

As a musician, I feel the plagiarism accusations on this song are unfounded. There is a vast difference between slight similarities and exact copies. In the case of the Excel song, they both use tritones (notes six tones apart, or six frets on a guitar board) followed by another half tone...and the similarities end there. The dynamic/arrangement of the two riffs are quite different. One is a stop/start riff with two halves (Excel) and one a fluid riff with 3 repeats and a tail (Metallica). In my opinion there is no plagiarism there and the section should probably be removed. If the riffs WERE the same, fine, leave it, but as is, it's just there to tarnish a reputation over very little.

Also, consider there are only 12 notes in music. Throw those into the context of a certain genre and you're pretty much not going to be able to combine any notes that haven't already been combined in ways that might sound similar to others. LittleTacoMeat (talk) 01:37, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

If it this was one party making this accusation, I'd agree that the information did not belong in the article. But there is coverage in multiple sources so I think it's rissen to a point where it is worth including here.--RadioFan (talk) 23:09, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Primary sources this information is based on are from the band (or the band's camp, i.e. managers/record label) with the plagiarism claim, and a disgruntled former member (Dave Mustaine) of the band having engaged in the alleged plagiarism - who has talked negatively about them for years at every chance. Pretty biased parties, are they not? I don't see what boils down to "this sounds vaguely similar to something else" is useful information in any other way than to harm the reputation of a popular group and one of their signature songs.

This is a popular site. People will read that, and accept it as something true, and then it spreads. It's very damaging. Perhaps that is just my bias though. Ah well, guess it won't matter.

Can't there be some addition to let readers know the accusation was never "proven" or something along those lines?LittleTacoMeat (talk) 10:44, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

There is already a sentence explaining that no legal action has been taken. That should be sufficient.--RadioFan (talk) 20:48, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

In further investigation of the Excel song, there is a guitar riff 2 minutes 50 seconds in that is rhythmically similar to the intro of "YYZ" by Rush, perhaps more similar than Enter Sandman's main riff is to Excel's. Hilarious. Won't make any difference for the article, but it's quite fun to see such hypocritical finger pointing going on.LittleTacoMeat (talk) 04:49, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Alternate Version of Video?

I can't help feeling that the original video was slightly different in the truck scene, that there was no bed, there was a guard rail. Anyone else think so? Was the video re-written since 1991? Then again I could be wrong, it was 20 years ago, and I am simply having a senior moment at 41. :-) Chris-marsh-usa (talk) 04:17, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Ska track?

why is this listed as a ska track and not metal, i disagree with taking metal off but leaving ska is absolutely Jreidus (talk) 19:19, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

It is ska man. Deal with it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.65.11.68 (talk) 19:21, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

What are you talking about? Saying this is ska would be like saying Justin Bieber is metal. --Chickenguy13 (talk) 06:30, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Dead external links to Allmusic website – January 2011

Since Allmusic have changed the syntax of their URLs, 1 link(s) used in the article do not work anymore and can't be migrated automatically. Please use the search option on http://www.allmusic.com to find the new location of the linked Allmusic article(s) and fix the link(s) accordingly, prefereably by using the {{Allmusic}} template. If a new location cannot be found, the link(s) should be removed. This applies to the following external links:

• http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=17:447748

--CactusBot (talk) 11:20, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Locrian mode?

Just wanted to know. The riff's got a tritone and it seems to be easy to change keys in it. Is it E Locrian? D minor? It could be E Phrygian/Phrygian dominant; but the mode is Locrian with a perfect fifth instead of a diminished fifth --CPGACoast (talk) 23:27, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Video

The first line is ambiguous at worst and confusing at best ...

""Enter Sandman" was the first music video from Metallica, and the band's second ever."

It's either their first video or their second - it can't be both!

Robodick (talk) 12:47, 29 February 2012 (UTC) Greg

--Maybe the first video from the Metallica Album and the band's second ever? Just an educated guess. FiggazWithAttitude (talk) 19:32, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Hard rock

The source at the genre field describes the song as hard rock, yet I keep being reverted by an IP who constantly removes the genre.

I already issued a warning at their Talk page, yet they ignored it and reverted my edit again.

Either way, I want to reach consensus here about if the addition of this genre is indeed right or not, just so this whole IP-reverting thing will stop.-Teh Thrasher 14:52, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

The reference says "hard rock" so really there's no question about it. The IPs deleting this information are from two places: near Manila, Philippines, and near Birmingham, UK. Whoever they are, they need to come up with a source saying that the song is not hard rock, at which point we would move the discussion of hard rock down into the article body, attributing the two opposing opinions. Binksternet (talk) 15:40, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Kid's voice

"Personell" section should have information about voice of kid. Some says that it was performed by Bob Rock's son. 185.28.251.102 (talk) 01:37, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Motorhead cover

I founded on Youtube, this clip showing a cover of Enter Sandman by Motorhead, is it notable enough to mention? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzpOnFgjc5Q --Sd-100 (talk) 03:17, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

GA Reassessment

Enter Sandman

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • Watch article reassessment page • GAN review not found

Result: Delisted. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 20:35, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

This 2007 GA reads extremely poorly, and the information is all over the place. None of it feels comprehensive or comfortable to read at all, not even the lead (which is pitifully short for such an important song). There's also numerous unsourced statements, deviations from what song articles usually have (primary the lack of a background section), and irrelevant appearances in media that read like the bad kind of an WP:INPOPULARCULTURE section. This article should not be GA. λ NegativeMP1 03:04, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.