Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Enter Sandman/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted 00:52, 10 December 2007.

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Enter Sandman

I'm nominating this article for featured article because I think it meets the criteria. I worked in the article a lot in August and September, expanded it and I think it is comprehensive, factually accurate, neutral. I'll address any issues raised. Thanks in advance. Serte ^{[ Talk · Contrib ]} 23:04, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

• Comment: So what does the title mean? OK, I know; but some people, especially non-native English speakers, may not have a clue what the Sandman is. I can't aven find a link to Sandman. — Kpalion^(talk) 23:23, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I added this: "The title is a reference to the sandman, a folklore character that makes children sleep." to the music and lyrics section. Is it ok now? Thanks for addressing this point, it was an obvious miss while expanding the article.--Serte ^{[ Talk · Contrib ]} 23:17, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it's fine now. Thanks for adding that. — Kpalion^(talk) 19:29, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

• Support Jose João (talk) 09:16, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks.--Serte ^{[ Talk · Contrib ]} 23:17, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

• Comment. A few points:
  • The lengthy orchestral outro in the S&M performance should be described.
  • There are a few places where album titles need to be put into italics.
  • A (fair use) snippet of the lyrics should be included somewhere.
  • The use for Mariano Rivera should be expanded upon. This is by far one of most well-known entrance music associations in all of U.S. sports, and has added considerably to Rivera's mystique. The irony that he's clueless about Metallica and metal can be added, as well as a brief mention of Yankee fan unhappiness with Billy Wagner's use of the song when he came to NY as well. Wasted Time R (talk) 00:35, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
• Comment In general, this is a very well made article. However, a few things need to be addressed before I can support:

• The lead should include a description of what the song sounds like.
• Gold certification does not mean that a single/album/etc has necessarily sold 500,000 copies, but that 500,000 copies have been shipped in that particular country. This error appears in the lead and the "Release and reception" section.
• The two last paragraphs of the "Music video" section are extremely short - they should be merged and expanded into a full paragraph about reception to the video.
• "Information retrieved from Metallica's official site" doesn't need to be included - no citation is ever necessary for track listings.
• The "Accolades" section really needs some clean-up. The section really should be organized by year, and quite a few need to be removed. --Brandt Luke Zorn 05:33, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Fixed the gold certification, merged music video section, removed "Information retrieved from Metallica's official site", removed some non-notable accolades but it still needs to be re-organized. M3tal H3ad (talk) 03:24, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

• Comment: [perhaps you should] Request [a] comment from Copy-editor's league
  "Metallica's way of writing songs consisted of lead guitarist Kirk Hammett and bassist Jason Newsted submitting tapes with ideas for songs to rhythm guitarist James Hetfield and drummer Lars Ulrich, who would then combine them with their own and write songs in Ulrich's house in Berkeley, California." - run on? bad phrasing?
  --Keerllston 13:18, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

• Oppose. Confusion and substandard prose. Here are random samples.
  • " Originally, the riff had two bars, until Ulrich suggested that the first bar should be played three times.[1] The song was quickly finished,[2] but Hetfield did not come up with vocal melodies and lyrics for a long time ...". The first sentence has to be unpacked by the poor reader; so the original repeated the first bar once to make up the two bars, yes? "quickly finished" is a bit loose—are you referrring to the compositional process? And by "song", you mean the music sans lyrics, I guess. "For a long time" is unencyclopedic. See MOS on vague chronological items. "Come up with" is on the informal side in this register.
  • "Ulrich, Hetfield and Rock did also a week of recording in Vancouver"—word order; get a native speaker to look at the whole article (the lead is OK, though). And recruit a copy-editor or two from other similar articles, based on their history of editing those articles. Tony (talk) 02:00, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
• Oppose. Some prose and flow issues detract from what is a comprehensive and well-referenced article. Some random samples:

• "The song achieved gold status for more than 500,000 copies shipped in the US, in part due to the fact that the album in which it is featured on sold over 15 million copies and helped propel Metallica to worldwide popularity." is too awkward a construction. Try splitting the sentence and rephrasing.
• "Lyrically, the song has been said to be about "nightmares and all that come with them" by Chris True of All Music Guide" would read better as "All Music Guide's Chris True stated the song's lyrics were about "nightmares and all that come with them".
• On another note, do we need so many references to Chris True? His name is mentioned four times in the article. Try looking for other reviews of the song; there must be a "Enter Sandman" review in a guitar magazine somewhere.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by CloudNine (talk • contribs) 23:29, December 8, 2007

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.