Talk:Controlled flight into terrain

EGPWS vs. TAWS

EGPWS is a product name (from Honeywell company) which "implements" the TAWS system. Shouldn't the article use "TAWS" instead of "EGPWS" ? --Laomai Weng (talk) 14:34, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Suggest to remove two accidents

Both crashes of the thunderbirds ( jan18, 1982 and sept 14, 2003) are - in my opinion- not CONTROLLED flight into terrain. Both are crashes while performing aerobatic maneuvres, and should be listed on a different list. --Saschaporsche (talk) 07:41, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

removed these 2 accidents --Saschaporsche (talk) 08:19, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Picture

What's the picture of a guy ejecting got to do with the article? Sure, it's a nice picture - but it clearly isn't a CFIT. Suggest it's removed. 89.5.234.158 (talk) 14:26, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

911

Aren't the 11/09/01 plane hijacks and subsequent crashes into buildings technically CFITs ?

Buildings aren't terrain. Kurt Weber 19:30, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

One of the planes did land in a field. —Signed, your friendly neighborhood MessedRocker. 11:26, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

The article states CFITs are inadvertent. All of the September 11 planes were intentionally crashed, likely including United Airlines Flight 93 - the black box seems to indicate the terrorists crashed the plane upon losing control. So none of the September 11 crashes are CFITs. 49giantsharks (talk) 22:21, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Damnit, someone beat me to this joke. 86.166.56.224 (talk) 05:19, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

This article should explain what category an intentional flight into terrain or other fixed object (such as the 9/11 hijackings) falls in to. Bonus Onus (talk) 22:28, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

What did the NTSB rule? Or did they leave the investigation to the FBI? (In my opinion flt 93 was not cfit. As a thought point, even though af af447 was not ruled cfit, it would be closer to cfit that flt 93.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.182.241.250 (talk) 07:38, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Thunderbird Diamond Crash

According to the USAF Thunderbirds air demonstration team article, there was a crash of four of their planes following the malfunction of the lead pilot's controls; the three planes following him were paying attention to him and not to the ground coming up at them. Is this a notable enough instance to have a brief mention added to this article? --BlueNight 06:41, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

I like the notability standard applied to the list of notable accidents and incidents on commercial aircraft. If the instance is notable enough to have its own dedicated article, not just a mention in USAF Thunderbirds' entry, then the crash could be included here. plmoknijb 22:32, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

United Airlines Flight 389

Could someone familiar with this type of aviation accident or this crash in particular review the article on United Airlines Flight 389, linked from this page. An alternate, but apparently not widely accepted, theory that the plane was blown up by an explosive device is included. This seems to be drawn primarily from a first-hand account and qualifies itself with this sentence: "This is a question that has seldom even been asked." -- jqubed (Talk | Contributions) 20:04, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

American Airlines Flight 965

The article states that "Statistics show that no aircraft fitted with a terrain awareness and warning system has ever suffered a CFIT accident." But what about American Airlines Flight 965? [[1]] This aircraft had a terrain awareness system fitted and yet crashed unintentionally into a mountain near Buga in Columbia, so this statement would appear to be incorrect. --Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 11:48, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing out; text has been corrected. The TAWS term is sometimes used to refer to EGPWS rather than older GPWS systems, which is a confusing usage. PolarYukon (talk) 15:40, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

"Cummulo"

This page is, for some reason, accessible as "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cummulogranite" but not the proper spelling of "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumulogranite". I have no idea how to fix this, so I figured I'd point it out. 71.113.73.25 (talk) 08:04, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Life expectancy in clouds

It is stated in the article that "Pilots who enter cloud without navigational instruments–flying blind–have a life expectancy of somewhere around 19 seconds,[1]." Reference [1] almost literally makes the same statement without further explanation on how this number was obtained. In my opinion it is therefore not a reliable and traceable source, but this is not the point I want to make here. I rather find that, regardless of the source, this number must be wrong. I assume that it is rather meant that those pilots who die after entering a cloud do so after on average 19 seconds. If this is not what is meant, then a single pilot living until his natural death (potentially many years) after having flown through a cloud would catapult the average number well into the range of minutes or hours unless absolutely vast numbers of pilots have died in clouds in the past. Does anyone feel like makeing a more precise statement in the article or find a more meaningful source? Thanks, 88.152.4.45 (talk) 10:37, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

It is very misleading, I'm going to remove it. The stat is saying that pilots withint equipment to determine their orientation (right side up, upside down, etc) or without the proper training (new solo student pilot, etc) will have a poor outcome. However, this is *NOT* CFIT, this is spacial disorientation. I'm going to correct this. -robert, FAA Certified Flight Instructor, FAA Certified Commercial Pilot --RobertGary1 (talk) 17:52, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

I've correct this. The original statement was misplaced because it deals with spacial disorientation which is very much NOT controlled. --RobertGary1 (talk) 17:55, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Cheers, mate. btw: It's "spatial", not "spacial". Funny grammar, isn't it? :-) 88.152.4.45 (talk) 18:25, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Inexperienced Pilots in the clouds

I believe the 19-second figure refers to the time from disappearance of visual clues to departure from controlled flight. One can see that even if loss of control is instantaneous, any aircraft flying above a couple of thousand feet would take more than 19 seconds to strike the ground. However, I agree it does not belong in a CFIT article, since we are talking here about aircraft striking the ground while the pilot was in control.74.239.2.104 (talk) 19:40, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

The problem isn't hitting the ground, it is overstressing the airframe so the wings are ripped off. During experiments (NASA maybe?), on average, when a person untrained in instrument flight lost outside references, they would misinterpret the effects of flight on their bodies and would erroneously attempt to correct it, usually causing the aircraft to go into a spiral dive, which very quickly escalated into ripping the wings off the aircraft. During the tests it took on average just 19 seconds for this to happen. Buddy Holly (the day the music died) died in one such incident, as did John F. Kennedy, Jr. when he crashed near Martha's Vineyard.NiD.29 (talk) 05:18, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

One of the most time-consuming aspects of blind flying training, i.e., for IFR, is teaching the student pilot to ignore the physical sensations and rely on the instruments to the exclusion of all else. This is very difficult for the student at first and takes practice.

FWIW, the RAF in the 1930s found that it took as long again to train a pilot for instrument flying as it did to train him to fly in visual conditions in the first place. In other words, it doubled the time needed to train a new pilot.

They also found that without proper instrument training a pilot, any pilot, flying into IFR conditions will eventually kill himself. The only difference between pilots was the length of time it took them to do so.

If you don't have an instrument rating then if your journey is delayed and likely to extend into the evening with poor light you cancel the flight and stay on the ground - if you are already in the air then you find somewhere to land, even if it means putting it down in a field or other safe open area. You can always resume your journey later, even if it means spending an uncomfortable night in a cramped cold and unheated aircraft in the middle of nowhere. Same if the weather is suspect. And you stay clear of clouds.

As they say; "Better late than never", as "never" is a very long time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.247.31 (talk) 10:19, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Notable incidents -> table?

Maybe the growing list of notable incidents should be moved into a table, with columns for date, nb of casualties, notabilities, etc. AugustinMa (talk) 15:08, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Over 9000 usage, meme takes over article respect

Maybe it's just me, but I suggest you remove "over 9000 deaths", as this can cause corruption in article because people see internet memes and probably want to troll. If you don't like this, just remove this suggestion. I don't have any trouble. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.204.28.101 (talk) 20:13, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

File:Air New Zealand Flight 901.jpg Nominated for Deletion

	An image used in this article, File:Air New Zealand Flight 901.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Deletion requests May 2011 What should I do?
	A discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (commons:COM:SPEEDY has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs. This notification is provided by a Bot, currently under trial --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 15:47, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Dogfighting

Would pilots who crash during dogfights (or otherwise performing evasive manoeuvres) count as CFIT? Is it at least worth a mention? Jellyfish dave (talk) 16:36, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

In this document: [2], "Page 7" there are some definitions of CFIT. `a5b (talk) 23:06, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

computerized flight into terrain

Some pilots, convinced that advanced electronic navigation systems coupled with flight management system computers, 
or over-reliance on them, are partially responsible for these accidents, have called CFIT accidents 
"computerized flight into terrain".[citation needed]

Original research? Added here at 6 September 2011 [3]; moved from Aviation_safety; added originally: [4] at 19 December 2004 by User:4.64.65.225. No citation for more than year. `a5b (talk) 23:01, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. I've removed it. Superm401 - Talk 01:58, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

ASIANA 214 CFIT ??

My understanding is that Asiana 214 flew into the ground on a clear and calm day because the 3 crew members did not monitor their airspeed properly (they thought the auto throttles were engaged, which they were not). 70.75.236.3 (talk) 02:07, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

I agree with you, the asiana accident is not a CFIT, i removed the accident. Reference this document: [5], "Page 7" definitions of CFIT Regards Saschaporsche (talk) 05:36, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Yes, thank you. Asiana 214 should be listed as an "undershoot" accident 174.0.188.173 (talk) 16:53, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Well, one might call it an "undershoot" accident, but that too would be misleading. The plane crashed because it stalled close to the ground and that happened because they allowed the airspeed to fall way below the required and safe 1.3 Vref speed.

While they attempted a go-around at the last few seconds, it didn't work because the wings had stalled. When a stall occurs, the only way to get out of it is to push the engine thrust to MAX, AND to LOWER the nose so that the angle of attack is reduced. That is essential because the air will not begin to flow smoothly over the wings again, if that high angle of attack is maintained. Of course, to do that, the plane must have sufficient altitude above the ground to make that kind of recovery, which in this case it did not.

This was NOT a CFIT accident, precisely because their failure to maintain the required 1.3 Vref speed, led to a loss of control. That is what a stall amounts to: A loss of control, i.e., the plane continues to descend even though the pilot is trying to make it climb (the pitch was about 12 degrees ANU and the control column was in the full aft position). EditorASC (talk) 00:09, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Aeroflot 821?

Why is Aeroflot 821 included? The official investigation said that the pilots actually lost control due to their failure to notice and correct an excessive left bank.76.6.152.65 (talk) 18:47, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Agree I have removed it. MilborneOne (talk) 17:47, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Controlled flight into terrain. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120306010038/http://www.flighttrainingnews.co.uk/home/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=76:uncontrolled-flight-into-terrain-ufit&catid=13:james-mcbride&Itemid=14 to http://www.flighttrainingnews.co.uk/home/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=76:uncontrolled-flight-into-terrain-ufit&catid=13:james-mcbride&Itemid=14

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 10:03, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Notable accidents and sourcing

Please note that WP:SOURCELIST stipulates that "Lists, whether they are stand-alone lists (also called list articles) or embedded lists, are encyclopedic content just as paragraph-only articles or sections are. Therefore, all individual items on the list must follow Wikipedia's content policies: the core content policies of Verifiability (through good sources in the item's one or more references), No original research, and Neutral point of view, plus the other content policies as well." Additionally, WP:CIRCULAR makes it clear that Wikipedia articles are not in and of themselves reliable sources.

My reading of this suggests that for the Notable accidents table we should be provided sources establishing not just that these are notable accidents but that they are also considered CFIT accidents. Currently few of the entries are sourced, which means there's no in-article way to readily verify that the accidents listed are CFIT. It should not be incumbent on readers to have to refer to other articles to confirm the information published at this one.

Other opinions are welcome. DonIago (talk) 20:15, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

I wish slapping a Refimprove template on an article was as time consuming as it is to add all the references it complains about. Duplicating all those refs for this kind of largely uncontroversial articles is a massive waste of editors' time. I'm certainly not wasting mine, and you have not improved the article. --Deeday-UK (talk) 22:24, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

Based on your rather knee-jerk response, you don't care enough about the article to bring it up to Wikipedia standards then, and I'm guessing you're not especially interested in discussing the matter further either. So be it. If nobody else weighs in I'll give it some time before taking further action. Cheers. DonIago (talk) 02:33, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

One of the problems is that it is not really a list, if it was just a list of accidents with linked articles then it would not need a reference but this table is introducing article content. This should be referenced, that said perhaps the easiest is to ditch the table as it overwhelms the article and really adds no value. Just listing aircraft that hit things doesnt add to the understanding of CFIT or give any more than looking at the CFIT category. I would suggest ditch the big table and possibly expand the causes section to give more value by giving a few examples of the type and causes of CFIT accidents. MilborneOne (talk) 07:48, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

I'm amenable to this approach. I think ideally we'd have a listing of more "notable" CFIT accidents, but I have no idea how we could objectively distinguish those, as plane accidents tend to attract news coverage in general. Morbidly speaking, we could just list the "top" accidents in terms of casualties, but... In any case, a concern with the table is that well-meaning editors are likely to continue to add entries without sourcing, so we'd end up having to police the table for those. Thanks for your thoughts on this! DonIago (talk) 13:04, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

MilborneOne, what DonIago says is the opposite to what you said: even if the big table was "just a list of accidents with linked articles", his point is that it would still need references, which to me it's just pedantic. I too thought about ditching the big table before, because it does indeed overwhelm the article. However, a proper list article of CFIT accidents would definitely add value. The existing CFIT category is not very easy to navigate, with all the articles dumped in alphabetical order; a proper list article would have them sorted chronologically and maybe grouped in some meaningful way. It's quite some work though, especially if we have to copy all the references from the articles to their respective entry in the list. --Deeday-UK (talk) 13:55, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

I would not object to a seperate List of controlled flight into terrain accidents, as you said if it was properly organised it would help the reader. Need to be clear on the grouping of causes like weather related etc. MilborneOne (talk) 14:03, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

I'd be okay with "outsourcing" the current list from this article, and taking it as an opportunity to improve matters. DonIago (talk) 23:23, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Notable accidents table

Moving this here until we have consensus about how to dispense with it and resolve sourcing concerns, and what makes a CFIT accident "notable" (are there even CFIT accidents that don't meet the standard WP definition of "notable"?). DonIago (talk) 15:45, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Notable accidents table

Notable accidents Many notable accidents have been ascribed to CFIT. Flight Date Comments TWA Flight 3 January 16, 1942 Fifteen minutes after takeoff from Las Vegas, the plane hit a sheer cliff on Potosi Mountain, 32 miles from the airport, at an elevation of 7,770 ft. No survivors among the 19 passengers and 3 crew on board, including movie star Carole Lombard and her mother. Cause was the deviation from the safe airway route, during a nighttime flight. August 1942 Dunbeath Air Crash August 25, 1942 Due to a misjudgment of position, the flight crew appear to have believed that the aircraft was over the sea to the east of their actual position. The aircraft crashed into the Scottish Highlands (at Eagle's Rock near Caithness), killing all but one of the fourteen on board. Pilot error was given as the reason for the crash. The aircraft was carrying a member of the British Royalty (HRH Prince George, Duke of Kent) from RAF Invergordon to Reykjavik. Pan Am Flight 161 January 8, 1945 On approach to Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago, the pilot flying misjudged his altitude over water and unintentionally flew the Martin M-130 aircraft into the ocean. On impact the aircraft broke up, resulting in the deaths of 23 passengers and crew, and the loss of the China Clipper, the first aircraft to successfully complete a transpacific airmail service. BSAA Star Dust August 2, 1947 Due to a misjudgment of position, the flight crew appear to have believed that the aircraft was approaching the airport of Santiago, when in fact it was still above Tupungato mountain in the Andes. The plane vanished shortly after its last transmission estimating the time of its arrival at Santiago. Its wreckage was discovered fifty years later. 1949 Superga Fiat G.212 crash May 4, 1949 Collision with the hill of Superga, near Turin. 1949 Air France Lockheed Constellation crash October 28, 1949 Collision with Pico da Vara mountain on São Miguel Island, 60 miles north of the airport on Santa Maria Island where the plane was scheduled to land. Though operating under VFR conditions, the pilot had sent inaccurate position reports and failed to identify the airport. Pan Am Flight 151 June 21, 1951 Collision with hill, Liberia, Africa. United Airlines Flight 610 June 30, 1951 Crashed into Crystal Mountain, CO, after failing to make a required left turn, to remain on the flight planned course to Denver. Air France Flight 178 September 1, 1953 Crashed into the Pelat Massif in the French Alps British Commonwealth Pacific Airlines Flight 304 October 29, 1953 Premature descent while intercepting ILS for SFO airport TWA Flight 260 February 19, 1955 Crashed into Sandia Mountains, near Albuquerque, NM, while in instrument flight conditions. Suspected failure of a critical navigation instrument. United Airlines Flight 409 October 6, 1955 Unexplained deviation from flight plan course; hit Medicine Bow Peak, WY Trans-Canada Air Lines Flight 810 December 9, 1956 Crashed into a mountain after crew deviated from a known flight path; a fire alarm in one engine and icing of the wings were contributing causes. 1958 BOAC Bristol Britannia crash December 24, 1958 Poor weather and a poorly-designed altimeter led to the crew overestimating their altitude by 10,000 feet. American Airlines Flight 320 February 3, 1959 Crashed in New York City's East River on a night approach, due largely to a combination of poor cockpit management, improper use of the autopilot, and lack of situational awareness. 1959 Air Charter Turkey crash April 23, 1959 Crew failed to notice that strong winds had made the flight drift into mountainous terrain. Piedmont Airlines Flight 349 October 30, 1959 Navigational error led to the flight impacting a hill short of the airport. TAA Fokker Friendship disaster June 10, 1960 No cause was ever established; theories include altimeter malfunction or interference by a child visiting the cockpit. Alitalia Flight 771 July 7, 1962 Navigational error and lack of situational awareness led pilot to descend prematurely. Aero Flight 217 November 8, 1963 DC-3. Crashed into a knoll on landing approach at Mariehamn, Finland. The root cause was a malfunctioning altimeter. Linjeflyg Flight 277 November 20, 1964 Crash killed 31 of 43 people on board, making it the deadliest aviation accident in Sweden. United Airlines Flight 389 August 16, 1965 No official cause determined, but a leading theory was misinterpretation of a problematic 3-pointer altimeter. American Airlines Flight 383 November 8, 1965 Poor weather and misreading of a drum-type altimeter may have led to an improperly-early descent. TABSO Flight 101 November 24, 1966 Crashed near Bratislava, Slovakia, killing all 82 on board Iberia Airlines Flight 062 November 4, 1967 No official cause determined, but it was noted that the plane had the 3-pointer style of altimeter that had been suspected of contributing to a number of other accidents. TWA Flight 128 November 20, 1967 Crashed short of the runway, after descending below the minimum descent altitude (MDA), in non-visual conditions, while conducting a non-precision approach to the Cincinnati airport. South African Airways Flight 228 April 20, 1968 Failure by crew to maintain a safe airspeed and altitude and a positive climb by not observing flight instruments during take-off. Scandinavian Airlines System Flight 933 January 13, 1969 Failure by crew to monitor rate of descent, resulting in a water landing near LAX Prinair Flight 277 March 5, 1969 Crashed in mountainous terrain near Fajardo, Puerto Rico, killing all 19 occupants. The air traffic controller at Isla Verde International Airport in San Juan incorrectly thought the flight was near San Juan and instructed it to land. Mexicana Flight 704 June 4, 1969 Crashed into mountainous terrain near Salinas Victoria, Mexico, killing all 79 people on board. Southern Airways Flight 932 November 14, 1970 Crashed near Ceredo, West Virginia, killing all 75 on board. The flight was chartered by Marshall University and the passengers consisted of players, coaches, and boosters of the football team returning from a game against East Carolina. Alaska Airlines Flight 1866 September 4, 1971 Flew into the side of a canyon on approach to Juneau, Alaska, killing all 111 people on board (104 passengers, 7 crew). Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571 October 13, 1972 Known less formally as the Andes flight disaster, October 13, 1972 to December 23, 1972, during which stranded snow-bound survivors resorted to cannibalism. The incident became the subject of feature films and best-selling books. Braathens SAFE Flight 239 December 23, 1972 Faulty ILS signals and a distracted crew led to an impact miles from the runway. Eastern Air Lines Flight 401 December 29, 1972 The cockpit crew became fixated on a faulty landing gear light and had failed to realize that the autopilot had been switched off. The distracted crew did not recognize the plane's slow descent and the otherwise completely airworthy aircraft struck swampy ground in the Everglades, killing 101 out of 176 passengers and crew. This accident became the subject of books and made-for-television movies. Invicta International Airlines Flight 435 April 10, 1973 The final approach was based on a malfunctioning radio beacon. The aircraft crashed near Hochwald, Switzerland, killing 108 of the 145 people on board and becoming the deadliest aviation disaster to occur in Switzerland. Delta Air Lines Flight 723 July 31, 1973 Crew misprogrammed flight director and failed to maintain control of glidepath during final approach. Aviaco Flight 118 August 13, 1973 Aircraft crashed into a hill 2 miles off destination airport due to low visibility conditions after several attempts to land. Texas International Airlines Flight 655 September 27, 1973 Continued VFR flight into instrument meteorological conditions; poor navigation resulting in loss of situational awareness; captain ordered descent below minimum safe altitudes. Aircraft impacted Black Fork Mountain, Arkansas. Pan Am Flight 812 April 22, 1974 The crew prematurely executed a right turn due to a malfunctioning radio direction finder. Eastern Air Lines Flight 212 September 11, 1974 Crashed on approach to Charlotte Municipal Airport in Charlotte, North Carolina, killing 72 of the 82 people on boar. The flight crew had lacked altitude awareness and cockpit discipline was poor. The crash lead to the Federal Aviation Administration publishing the Sterile Cockpit Rule in 1981. TWA Flight 514 December 1, 1974 Bad weather and poor communications between the crew and ATC led to an improper descent. Inex-Adria Aviopromet Flight 450 October 30, 1975 During an approach in bad visibility, the aircraft descended below the elevation of the airport and crashed into the bank of a river gorge, killing 79 of 120 people on board. Turkish Airlines Flight 452 September 19, 1976 Crashed into a hill 60 miles off the destination airport killing all 154 people on board. United Airlines Flight 2860 December 18, 1977 Crashed near Kaysville, Utah killing all three flight crew members on board. They had accepting an incorrect holding clearance from air traffic controler. National Airlines Flight 193 May 8, 1978 Crashed into Escambia Bay while on approach to Pensacola Regional Airport, Florida. Air New Zealand Flight 901 November 28, 1979 Crashed into Mount Erebus, Antarctica on November 28, 1979. There is still disagreement over the exact causes of the crash, but it is commonly accepted that a changing of pre-programmed coordinates without informing the pilots, the pilots' loss of situational awareness and whiteout conditions at the time were contributory factors leading to the crash. All 257 people on the plane were killed, making the crash of Flight 901 Air New Zealand's deadliest accident and New Zealand's deadliest peacetime disaster. Dan-Air Flight 1008 April 25, 1980 Crashed into high terrain in Tenerife after turning the wrong way in a holding pattern. All 146 people aboard were killed. Korean Air Lines Flight 015 November 19, 1980 Crashed short of runway 14 at Gimpo International Airport, killing 15 of the 226 people on board. Inex-Adria Aviopromet Flight 1308 December 1, 1981 Struck Corsica's Mt. San Pietro and crashed shortly before it was scheduled to land. All 180 people on board were killed. VASP Flight 168 June 8, 1982 Deadliest aviation accident in Brazil for 24 years. Sensory illusion during a night approach led to the captain descending below minimum safe altitude, despite warnings from the plane's automated systems and the first officer. 1983 TAME 737-200 crash July 11, 1983 Crashed on approach killing all 119 people on board. It is the deadliest aviation disaster to occur in Ecuador. Avianca Flight 011 November 27, 1983 Pilot/navigational error led to premature descent into hilly terrain. 1984 Biman Bangladesh Airlines Fokker F27 crash August 5, 1984 Deadliest air disaster in history of Bangladeshi aviation. Eastern Air Lines Flight 980 January 1, 1985 Struck Mount Illimani in Bolivia at an altitude of 19,600 feet. The flight took off from Silvio Pettirossi International Airport in Asunción, Paraguay, and intended to reach El Alto International Airport in La Paz, Bolivia. All 19 passengers and 10 crew were killed on impact. Iberia Airlines Flight 610 February 19, 1985 Crashed into a TV antenna while on approach to Bilbao, Spain. All 148 people on board were killed. 1986 Mozambican Tupolev Tu-134 crash October 19, 1986 President Machel of Mozambique and 33 others die when their off-course plane descends and flies into the Lebombo Mountains. Avianca Flight 410 March 17, 1988 Failure to maintain a sterile cockpit coupled with pressure from a delayed departure led to the aircraft impacting a mountain minutes after lift-off. Air France Flight 296 June 26, 1988 Crashed into trees while performing a flyover for an airshow at Mulhouse-Habsheim Airport. Out of 130 passengers and six crew members, three passengers died in the post-impact fire. Indian Airlines Flight 113 October 19, 1988 The aircraft hit an electric mast in Ahmedabad, India, five miles (eight km) out on approach in poor visibility. All six crew members and 124 of 129 passengers were killed. Independent Air Flight 1851 February 8, 1989 Descended on approach below cleared altitude following miscommunication between the crew and a trainee air traffic controller. Flying Tiger Line Flight 66 February 19, 1989 The aircraft was on an international cargo flight from Singapore to Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, and crashed shortly before landing. The crew descended below approach altitude and crashed into a hill. All four crew members were killed. Surinam Airways Flight 764 June 7, 1989 Captain knowingly initiated the wrong type of approach that relied on faulty ground equipment. Korean Air Flight 803 July 27, 1989 DC-10-30 crashed short of runway 27 during final approach to Tripoli International Airport. The crew descended below the decision height without the runway in sight. A total of 79 people were killed: 75 on board and four on the ground. Tan-Sahsa Flight 414 October 21, 1989 Crew followed faulty airport approach procedure over mountains. 131 dead. Indian Airlines Flight 605 February 14, 1990 Crashed short of the runway during final approach to Bangalore, killing 92 on board. Death of Stevie Ray Vaughan, East Troy, Wisconsin August 27, 1990 Bell 206B Jet Ranger helicopter flown into the side of a hill in heavy fog. Alitalia Flight 404, Zurich November 14, 1990 DC-9-32 flown into side of mountain on landing approach due to defective ILS gear, killing all 40 passengers and 6 crew. Lack of proper crew resource management has been identified as contributing cause. Royal Air Force Tornado ZA392 January 17, 1991 Tornado GR1 crashed into the ground 16 km (9.9 mi; 8.6 nmi) after delivering a JP233 munition. Both crewmembers were killed. Indian Airlines Flight 257 August 16, 1991 Crashed into Thangjing hills during approach Imphal Airport, killing all 69 people on board. Air Inter Flight 148 January 20, 1992 Crashed into Mt. Ste. Odile in the Vosges Mountains whilst on approach into Strasbourg Entzheim Airport. Thai Airways International Flight 311 July 31, 1992 Crashed on approach to Kathmandu. All 113 people on board were killed, 59 days before the PIA Flight 268 accident at Kathmandu. Pakistan International Airlines Flight 268 September 28, 1992 Crashed on approach to Kathmandu. The approach to Kathmandu is difficult, as the airport is located in an oval-shaped valley surrounded by mountains. Flight 268 was approximately 900 feet below the designated approach path and crashed into a steep cloud-covered hillside. All 167 people on the plane were killed. SAM Colombia Flight 501 May 19, 1993 Crashed near Mt. Panamo Frontino, killing all 132 people on board the Boeing 727-100 Asiana Airlines Flight 733 July 26, 1993 While approaching in bad weather, a Boeing 737-500 crashed into a mountain near Mokpo, South Korea. 68 of 106 on board were killed. Turkish Airlines Flight 278 December 29, 1994 Crashed into a hill during approach to Van Ferit Melen Airport in Turkey, killing 57 of the 75 people on board the Boeing 737-400. Ansett New Zealand Flight 703 June 5, 1995 A landing gear malfunction led to loss of situational awareness and descent below minimum safe altitude. Questions were raised about whether improper painting may have prevented the ground proximity warning system from functioning correctly. American Airlines Flight 1572 November 12, 1995 Failure to update an altimeter setting and control the plane's descent led to impact with trees short of the runway. American Airlines Flight 965 December 20, 1995 Crashed into a mountain near Buga, Colombia. The crew failed to recognize a series of navigational errors they had made, and forgot that they had deployed the air brakes. All eight crew members and 151 of the 155 passengers were killed. 1996 Croatia USAF CT-43 crash April 3, 1996 A modified Boeing 737 crashed into a mountain in Croatia. Vnukovo Flight 2801 August 29, 1996 All 141 people aboard a Tupolev Tu-154M were killed, when the aircraft crashed into Operafjellet during approach to Svalbard Airport, Longyear, Svalbard, Norway. This airport does not provide any approach service; this circumstance thus leads to higher risks at landing. Aeroperú Flight 603 October 2, 1996 A Boeing 757-23A impacted the ocean killing all 61 passengers and 9 crew on board. It was found that the adhesive tape had been accidentally left on the static ports by the maintenance personal after servicing the aircraft. This led to their air data computers being unable to report the correct airspeed and altitude. 1996 New Hampshire Learjet crash December 24, 1996 Found November 13, 1999 Korean Air Flight 801 August 6, 1997 A Boeing 747-300 crashed into Nimitz Hill on approach to Guam, killing 228 of 254 people aboard. The fatigued crew were following outdated flight maps, while ATC had modified its MSAW system to eliminate false alarms. Garuda Indonesia Flight 152 September 26, 1997 An Airbus A300, registered PK-GAI, crashed in Pancur Batu, Pematang Siantar, North Sumatra, killing all 234 people on board and becoming the deadliest aviation disaster in Indonesian aviation history. Cebu Pacific Flight 387 February 2, 1998 A DC-9-32, registered RP-C1507, crashed on the slopes of Mount Sumagaya in Claveria, Misamis Oriental, killing all 104 people on board. Kenya Airways Flight 431 January 30, 2000 Impacted ocean after takeoff from Félix Houphouët-Boigny International Airport, killing all 10 crew and 159 out of 169 passengers. The pilots put the plane into a descent in response to an erroneous stall warning. Air Philippines Flight 541 April 19, 2000 Crashed in Island Garden City of Samal, Davao del Norte, killing all 131 people on board. It is also currently the deadliest air disaster in the Philippines. Gulf Air Flight 072 August 23, 2000 An Airbus A320 crashed in Persian Gulf, while approaching the Bahrain International Airport, killing all 143 people on board due to combination of pilot error (spatial disorientation) and systemic organizational factors. Crossair Flight 3597 November 24, 2001 Flight from Berlin to Zurich that crashed during its landing approach, killing 24 people. TAME Flight 120 January 28, 2002 The crew flew the aircraft too fast during approach and disregarded its procedures. The aircraft crashed into the Cumbal Volcano, killing all 94 people on board. Air China Flight 129 April 15, 2002 Crew failed to execute a timely missed approach. Rico Linhas Aéreas Flight 4823 August 30, 2002 Crashed on approach to Rio Branco International Airport killing all 23 of the 31 people on board. Turkish Airlines Flight 634 January 8, 2003 Crashed short of the runway at Diyarbakır Airport, killing 75 of the 80 people on board. 2003 Iran Ilyushin Il-76 crash February 19, 2003 Crashed near Kerman in bad weather. All 275 people onboard were killed, making the crash the deadliest CFIT accident to date. Kam Air Flight 904 February 3, 2005 No official cause has been determined, although the plane flew into the area's worst snowstorm in five years. 2005 Loganair Islander accident March 15, 2005 Pilot continued descent past minimum altitude for procedure turn. Factors included fatigue, workload, lack of recent flying time, and possible disorientation, distraction, or subtle incapacitation. 2006 Slovak Air Force Antonov An-24 crash January 19, 2006 Aircraft strayed from the planned course and descended below the MDA prior to impact. Armavia Flight 967 May 3, 2006 Bad weather, spatial disorientation, and loss of situational awareness coupled with failure to follow communications procedures between ATC, the ground meteorologist, and the crew led to improper flight inputs and impact with the Black Sea. Atlasjet Flight 4203 November 30, 2007 While no official cause could be determined, investigators have theorized that the pilot suffered spatial disorientation before impact with a mountain. Santa Bárbara Airlines Flight 518 February 21, 2008 The pilots took off without conducting the mandatory pre-flight procedures and used an unauthorized departure route, which led to impact with a mountainside within minutes of departure. 2010 Polish Air Force Tu-154 crash April 10, 2010 Polish president Lech Kaczyński was among those killed in the crash. Afriqiyah Airways Flight 771 May 12, 2010 The pilots had not collaborated properly until final approach to Tripoli International Airport. As a result, the pilot flying activated a selected glide path too early. The Airbus A330 crashed short of runway 09, killing all but one of the 104 people on board. A 9-year-old Dutch boy named Ruben van Assouw was the sole survivor of the crash. Airblue Flight 202 July 28, 2010 Crashed into the Margalla Hills near Islamabad while attempting to land due to bad weather and pilot error. All 152 passengers and 6 crew members on board were killed. RusAir Flight 9605 June 20, 2011 Crashed near Petrozavodsk Airport (PES, ULPB). 47 of the 52 people on board died. First Air Flight 6560 August 20, 2011 An internal Canadian charter flight from Yellowknife Airport, Northwest Territories, to Resolute Bay Airport, Nunavut that crashed approximately 2 km (1.2 mi; 1.1 nmi) east of the Resolute Bay, Airport runway, in poor weather attempting a go-around after a failed ILS landing. 12 of the 15 people on board were killed. Royal Norwegian Air Force C-130J March 15, 2012 Crashed into Kebnekaise, Sweden en route to Kiruna Airport, killing the 5 officers on board. Bhoja Air Flight 213 April 20, 2012 Microburst induced wind shear countered by inappropriate pilot response. All 121 passengers including 6 crew members were killed on the board. The plane crashed in a field near Rawalpindi, Pakistan Mount Salak Sukhoi Superjet 100 crash May 9, 2012 Aircraft crashed while on a demonstration flight, killing all 45 on board. The pilots had intentionally turned off the terrain warning system and were speaking to potential customers when the impact occurred. UPS Airlines Flight 1354 August 14, 2013 Crashed on approach to Birmingham–Shuttlesworth International Airport in the US state of Alabama. Both pilots were killed. TransAsia Airways Flight 222 July 23, 2014 Crashed into Xixi Village, Huxi Township, kilking 48 of the 58 people on board and injuring five more people on the ground. The captain was overconfident with the systems of the ATR 72. Trigana Air Flight 267 August 16, 2015 Crashed into Mount Tangok, Oksibil, killing all 54 people on board. The pilots had deactivated the terrain warning system. Turkish Airlines Flight 6491 January 16, 2017 Aircraft crashed while landing at its scheduled stopover at Manas International Airport in Bishkek. A total of 39 people, including all four crew members on board and 35 people in a residential district located near the airport, were killed in the crash. References

Whether to add another pic

There seems to be a debate over adding another picture to the article, that has escalated to edit-warring. I'm hopeful that one or both parties will either discuss their concerns here or cease their disruptive editing. Personally, I don't currently have much of a horse in this race. DonIago (talk) 17:28, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

My 2 cents: i don't see the advantage why the new picture should be added, no real improvement to the article. Saschaporsche (talk) 18:22, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

Many of our articles make use of multiple relevant images by incorporating a Gallery of images. For example, see Wingtip vortices#Gallery. For Wikipedia’s guidance about Galleries see WP:GALLERY.

I suggest the current controversy about “should we have another image in the lead” should move to “should we establish a Gallery of images within the article”. If the consensus is “no, we don’t need a Gallery of images” then we probably don’t need one more image in the lead. Dolphin (t) 23:08, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

Good evening everybody, I am Charlie and I added the picture. I have no experience in this sort of situations so I apologize if I made some behaviour mistake, from now on I will discuss the issue only on this page. Talking in general, it is my opinion that any information we add to an article, if pertinent and correct, is never useless and for sure never a damage, it only makes the article richer. In this particular case, the Superga air disaster is one of the most known examples of CFIT and, according to me, it should somehow be mentioned in the article, together with any other related example, and I don't see any reason to keep it out. If the way I did it is not the best way, then I let you gentlemen decide in wich other way. Best regards, I wait to see you opinions. Charlie Foxtrot66 (talk) 19:53, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

We used to have a list of "notable" CFIT disasters, but the list was problematic because there was no sourcing for it and there was no agreement (that I recall) on how to establish what constituted a "notable" disaster in a scenario where all of them are likely to get news coverage for obvious reasons. The table is in the thread above this one, in fact, while the discussion is immediately above that. I'd be open to revisiting that discussion, but we'd need to come up with some criteria for what makes such an accident notable. A category may be a better option. DonIago (talk) 21:06, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Why not a gallery for the most notable cases and a category for all of them? Now is difficult to know wich criteria is better to use, but if we talk about media coverage then the crash of Superga must be the king of the CFITs... one of the strongest teams in soccer's history was on the plane, the thing made big worldwide emotion at the time. I guess that nowadays this happening is not very known in the U.S.A. because soccer is not much popular, but I don't know how many books and newspaper article they wrote about it and how many times at the tv in the last 70 years, in Italy and abroad. Commemorations every years, mostly in Turin but not only. For this reason I think that the article of Superga should be mentioned in this one, along with other examples that I let you gentlemen choose Charlie Foxtrot66 (talk) 16:38, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

To me, the most obvious objective criterion would be number of fatalities. By that standard, the Superga disaster doesn't seem especially notable. Yes, it's tragic that the team died in the crash, but how does one objectively measure "worldwide emotion"? It should not be us deciding which disasters qualify as notable, but rather reliable sources. I believe you've just highlighted exactly why we moved away from having a table of notable accidents; because it's difficult to claim that one was more notable than another. I welcome feedback from other editors. DonIago (talk) 20:22, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I agree, it would be good to hear some other opinion. Anyway, there are plenty of Wikipedia articles with a gallery of examples, is not that now we cannot make a gallery just because there are too many cases happened... in the article of the bridges there are not all the bridges of the world, just a certain number of different examples. About the emotion and most of all the news coverage at the time and until today, it's very easy to find all the reliable sources you want just with google but yes, this doesn't make it the only example wich deserves to be shared, is pretty possible to post also other big cases. Anyway this matter is not that a big thing to me, if you gentlemen think that it is so important to delete my contribution, ok, is gonna be fine with me. My best regards, I am sure you will take the best decision. Charlie Foxtrot66 (talk) 21:15, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Unintentional or intentional CFIT

While one of the cited sources in the lede does define CFIT as unintentional, the other (the cfit-report.pdf) does not. It is perhaps worth noting that definitions of CFIT differ, and CFIT could arguably occur intentionally. Examples might include that European airline pilot who locked his colleague out of the cockpit once the latter took a b/r break, and who then CFITted the fully loaded airliner. Someone probably remembers the details. One might also argue that the 9/11 flights ended in CFIT. ReadOnlyAccount (talk) 16:10, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

I recommend that CFIT be focused on unintentional accidents; and suicides be excluded. A lot of very useful work has been done in the area of unintentional CFIT leading to significant technological advances including GPWS and TAWS. Suicide is a very different phenomenon, and the work that needs to be done is much broader than just flight into terrain as a means of committing murder or suicide. Dolphin (t) 07:50, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

I don't dispute that a lot of useful work has been done re. unintentional CFIT – but that is neither here nor there.

I agree that unintentional and intentional CFIT differ in some important ways. However they also share significant commonalities, and etymologically, controlled flight into terrain literally just references the fact that someone was actively flying the aircraft right up to a terrain collision event.

I note that the lede has been edited since I left my above comment, but not necessarily for the better: The current claim now is that "Incidents resulting from (...) deliberate action (...), such as a forced landing, (...) terrorism, or suicide by pilot, are (...) excluded from the definition of CFIT" (emphasis added). That claim is even more clearly incorrect than what was there before. In truth, again, only one of the cited sources defines CFIT as unintentional, the other does not.

It might be possible to cover unintentional and intentional CFIT in different articles, but the current attempt seems to be to relegate the latter to mainly the suicide by pilot article, and to cherry-pick/misrepresent cited sources to exclude acknowledgement of intentional CFIT as one type of CFIT. That looks a lot like an attempt to sweep all the icky dust bunnies under the rug. I'll also note here that it is not unheard of on Wikipedia for both splits and mergers to be used to try and suppress undesirable information.

If there is consensus for your suggestion to use this CFIT article to exclusively cover unintentional CFIT, then at the very least it should be acknowledged that some definitions of CFIT do not exclude intentional CFIT, and disambiguation or hatnotes should then also be used to signpost appropriately.

IMHO it would be wholly wrong to just cover only one kind of CFIT just because the other feels icky or even more uncomfortable. I do note that on a flight recorder, intentional CFIT will often look just like unintentional CFIT, perhaps right up to the last few moments, where in some cases, unintentional CFIT pilots might yet realise the danger and try to correct, albeit too late. (Absence of a recovery attempt evidenced by the flight recorder wouldn't necessarily establish intent; possibly something caught by the cockpit voice recorder might.) NB: Intentional CFIT need not necessarily be suicide by pilot; it might be possible for a pilot to set up the plane to fly into terrain and then "D. B. Cooper" themselves out of the airplane right before its unstoppable force meets an immovable object. That, arguably, is more or less what Trevor Jacob did, though I guess you could bicker that from the moment he bailed, it was no longer controlled flight. —ReadOnlyAccount (talk) 21:28, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Tone adjustments and list of CFIT accidents needed

This article's tone is reminiscent of a personal essay about CFITs, not an authoritative encyclopedic entry on the subject. I think this article should draw more from instructional materials for private pilots for background. Also glaringly absent is a list of CFIT accidents. I cannot tackle all of this immediately, but I plan to return to this article in the coming weeks. @pdxgimlet Pdxgimlet (talk) 08:22, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

There's that notable accidents table above, which was in the article, but was exiled here pending consensus – which might have been done in good faith, but which move also often effectively amounts to a putting-out-to-pasture of the relevant info. That you possibly hadn't seen it would seem to tend to prove the point. —ReadOnlyAccount (talk) 23:18, 12 December 2023 (UTC)