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Last updated by DRN clerk bot (talk) at 00:00, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

"Suicide" edit reversalEdit

I can assume that my language and/or style was not perfect but what's the problem with reformulating it using more "encyclopedic" words? I think this information should be added in the article. Don't you agree? And don't you think you misused Rollback (cause there were no vandalism or "widespread unhelpful edit" (and also no "supply explanation"))? So let's decide how this information may be included in the article or please give an argument why it should be not included.--Oloddin (talk) 10:52, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

If I'd seen a way to reformulate it myself I would have done so. I would recommend raising the question at the article's Talk page, but I would note that there's already a paragraph that makes it clear that there isn't a "global" Christian view on suicide.
I supplied an explanation in my edit summary, so I don't really know what your concern is there. Cheers. DonIago (talk) 17:14, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
So what is your claim: just problems with style or that the whole statement is redundant in the article? I just wanted to emphasize that there are a large number of Christians who consider that suicide doesn't necessary mean loss of salvation and going to hell (as usually sin does according to mainstream Christian view) with several sources which support it. There are similar statements in the article Religious_views_on_suicide: "Christianity also does not say that suicide is an unforgivable sin" and "Some other denominations of Christianity may not condemn those who commit suicide per se as committing a sin". Why can't something like this be in the main article?--Oloddin (talk) 17:40, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
Both, really. As I said, if you feel it should be included anyway, you are welcome to discuss at the article's Talk page so that other editors can also weigh in. Cheers. DonIago (talk) 20:43, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
Anyway, it would be better to discuss first and then do such "hard" actions as rollback. Maybe if my edit had "survive" longer some other editors would have corrected style errors and my statements would fit better. Editors in Wikipedia are equal, and I don't need to convene a council every time I want to add some information in the article because one editor considered it inappropriate. But I also don't want to be involved in edit warring. Tomorrow I'll see what is the best option: to rephrase the statements, to start a discussion on page's talk page or simply to leave it as it is and forget about the whole thing. So now I have only one (final) question to you: what words in my sentence do I need to change to make it "encyclopedic"?Oloddin (talk) 21:58, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
Your edits have survived in the article's history, so it's easy enough to point to them as a WP:DIFF and ask for others' opinions. Happy to help you with that if you need it. I'd suggest you read WP:BRD though. As you said, every editor is equal, and part of that means that every editor has the right to revert an edit that they don't feel improves the quality of an an article, also without convening a council. When disputes occur over improvements, that's when there should be discussion to form a WP:CONSENSUS. Besides your statement being redundant, you used the very imprecise phrasing "a lot" IIRC, and also used a contraction. Per WP:TONE the latter at least shouldn't be done. Hope this helps. DonIago (talk) 23:13, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

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(Don't Fear) The ReaperEdit

I've been meaning to get back to you. I don't just put things in articles for my health. I recall the song being in that movie. As you may notice, I have done hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of edits without issue. Threatening me over one doesn't make you look good in my eyes. If one of my edits is removed, I accept it. There's no need for the authoritah attitude, okay? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jbl1975 (talkcontribs)

Please read WP:V. "I recall the song being in that movie." isn't sufficient, as Wikipedia editors are not reliable sources. Additionally, you were advised multiple times not to add unsourced content, but were continuing to do so. This is disruptive behavior. If you hadn't been warned about this before my warning would have adopted a more gentle tone, but you appear to be a repeat offender. Cheers. DonIago (talk) 20:42, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

I think you made a mistakeEdit

In fact, I know you did.

Regarding my inclusion of the term "nail puzzle" as a alternate name for "wire puzzle", you said:

"Hello, I'm Doniago. I noticed that you made one or more changes to an article, Disentanglement puzzle, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so! If you need guidance on referencing, please see the referencing for beginners tutorial, or if you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. DonIago (talk) 12:59, 25 September 2018 (UTC)"

How many citations would you like? A 10 second Google search turned up about 11,000,000 of them. Here's a few:

http://www.puzzlesolver.com/puzzle.php?id=15

https://www.instructables.com/id/Bent-Nail-Puzzle/

https://www.puzzlemaster.ca/browse/wire/otherwire/41-tangled-nails

https://www2.palomar.edu/users/warmstrong/trjul98a.htm

https://www.quora.com/How-do-you-solve-a-twisted-nail-puzzle

https://www.shopclues.com/box-of-5-nails-puzzles-in-wood-box-by-professor-puzzle--bonus-style-menace-mini-wire-puzzle-1.html


In fact, these puzzles were called "nail puzzles" long before they were called "wire puzzles". I'm rather surprised that someone watching over that article wouldn't already know this. 70.89.176.249 (talk) 02:04, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

None of the links you provided actually states that the terms "wire puzzle" and "nail puzzle" are used interchangeably. While we may be able to do so exercising our own judgment, to do so would be original research. In order to add the information you'd like to add we need a source that explicitly links the two terms...no pun intended. If you disagree with my assessment you'll welcome to raise the matter at the article's Talk page. DonIago (talk) 03:15, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
Um... the links show -- with illustrations -- that the term "nail puzzle" and "wire puzzle" are frequently used to refer to the same type of puzzle. The existence of multiple web sites using the term documents that fact. That actually looking up existing evidence constitutes "original research" is news to me, but what if, under some obscure definition, it does?
I guess the bottom line is, you can either believe the actual evidence, or you can keep teh article in error. I certainly hope that attitude isn't too common on Wikipedia, else it's pretty useless as an encyclopedia.
From: http://robspuzzlepage.com/tanglement.htm
"Tanglement puzzles (also referred to as Disentanglement puzzles, though re-entangling them is often as difficult or more difficult than dis-entangling them) comprise a very large category, which encompasses wire puzzles, ring-and-string puzzles, and bent nail puzzles."
"Other types of tanglement include those where there are two, sometimes more than two, more-or-less equal parts that must be separated, typically by some sequence of twists and slides relative to each other. These are usually made from hard wire or cast metal elements, sometimes nails."
70.89.176.249 (talk) 01:18, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
I'm afraid I'm not following you here. Are you suggesting that a wire puzzle is equivalent to a nail puzzle? If tanglement puzzles encompass both wire puzzles and nail puzzles, that suggests they are not the same thing, but rather different types of tanglement puzzles. If that latter point is what you're trying to convey, then sure, that source seems reasonable assuming the source is reliable.
I may have misunderstood the point you're trying to make, but then, we first discussed this over a year ago. Cheers. DonIago (talk) 18:59, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

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