Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rugby league/Archive 26

Championship and League 1 tables

Poll time. With the introduction of golden point in C'ship & L1 and a point for each team at full time with a bonus point for winning after golden point, we have two options on how to display the tables.

Option 1: WDL OT with separate columns for draws, games won after golden point, games lost after golden point

Pos	Team	Pld	W	GW	D	GL	L	PF	PA	PD	Pts	Qualification
1	Toulouse Olympique	4	4	0	0	0	0	146	34	+112	8	Play-off semi-final
2	Leigh Centurions	3	3	0	0	0	0	128	20	+108	6	Play-off qualifying final
3	Featherstone Rovers	3	3	0	0	0	0	102	50	+52	6
4	London Broncos	4	3	0	0	0	1	102	80	+22	6	Play-off elimination final
5	Halifax	3	2	0	0	0	1	62	39	+23	4
6	Widnes Vikings	4	2	0	0	0	2	88	76	+12	4
7	Dewsbury Rams	3	2	0	0	0	1	48	60	−12	4
8	Batley Bulldogs	4	1	0	0	1	2	68	99	−31	3
9	Swinton Lions	2	1	0	0	0	1	24	20	+4	2
10	Bradford Bulls	3	1	0	0	0	2	62	60	+2	2
11	Sheffield Eagles	4	0	1	0	0	3	60	120	−60	2
12	Oldham	4	1	0	0	0	3	40	134	−94	2
13	Whitehaven	4	0	0	0	0	4	38	106	−68	0	Relegated to League 1
14	York City Knights	3	0	0	0	0	3	14	84	−70	0

Updated to match(es) played on 2 March 2020. Source: [1]

Option 2: WDL with extra point for winning after golden point shown as BP

Pos	Team	Pld	W	D	L	PF	PA	PD	BP	Pts	Qualification
1	Toulouse Olympique	4	4	0	0	146	34	+112	0	8	Play-off semi-final
2	Leigh Centurions	3	3	0	0	128	20	+108	0	6	Play-off qualifying final
3	Featherstone Rovers	3	3	0	0	102	50	+52	0	6
4	London Broncos	4	3	0	1	102	80	+22	0	6	Play-off elimination final
5	Halifax	3	2	0	1	62	39	+23	0	4
6	Widnes Vikings	4	2	0	2	88	76	+12	0	4
7	Dewsbury Rams	3	2	0	1	48	60	−12	0	4
8	Batley Bulldogs	4	1	1	2	68	99	−31	0	3
9	Swinton Lions	2	1	0	1	24	20	+4	0	2
10	Bradford Bulls	3	1	0	2	62	60	+2	0	2
11	Sheffield Eagles	4	0	1	3	60	120	−60	1	2
12	Oldham	4	1	0	3	40	134	−94	0	2
13	Whitehaven	4	0	0	4	38	106	−68	0	0	Relegated to League 1
14	York City Knights	3	0	0	3	14	84	−70	0	0

Updated to match(es) played on 2 March 2020. Source: [2]

Option 3: WDL with extra point for losing after golden point shown as BP

Pos	Team	Pld	W	D	L	PF	PA	PD	BP	Pts	Qualification
1	Toulouse Olympique	4	4	0	0	146	34	+112	0	8	Play-off semi-final
2	Leigh Centurions	3	3	0	0	128	20	+108	0	6	Play-off qualifying final
3	Featherstone Rovers	3	3	0	0	102	50	+52	0	6
4	London Broncos	4	3	0	1	102	80	+22	0	6	Play-off elimination final
5	Halifax	3	2	0	1	62	39	+23	0	4
6	Widnes Vikings	4	2	0	2	88	76	+12	0	4
7	Dewsbury Rams	3	2	0	1	48	60	−12	0	4
8	Batley Bulldogs	4	1	0	3	68	99	−31	1	3
9	Swinton Lions	2	1	0	1	24	20	+4	0	2
10	Bradford Bulls	3	1	0	2	62	60	+2	0	2
11	Sheffield Eagles	4	1	0	3	60	120	−60	0	2
12	Oldham	4	1	0	3	40	134	−94	0	2
13	Whitehaven	4	0	0	4	38	106	−68	0	0	Relegated to League 1
14	York City Knights	3	0	0	3	14	84	−70	0	0

Updated to match(es) played on 2 March 2020. Source: [3]

Option 1 is how I set the tables up before the season started without knowing how online sources were going to display the tables. Now the season has started sources like the RFL are using option 2 - example (annoyingly the BBC which we have used as a source before isn't displaying bonus points and isn't clear any more). Which option do we want to use going forward? Nthep (talk) 18:37, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

The first one makes more sense in my opinion as it's more specific. With the second one, a person could still think of a gp win as a win as opposed to a draw with a bp. WDM10 (talk) 19:59, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Should stick to the sources and use option 2 in my opinion, although unlike in the example above, I think the bonus point is supposed to be awarded to the team that lost in golden point extra time (the game is only deemed a draw if neither side scores within the 10 minute period). At the very least, the wins and GP wins columns in option 1 should be merged as these are not being recorded seperately on other sites. J Mo 101 (talk) 23:17, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

To be honest that sounds like a better solution. WDM10 (talk) 03:52, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

Ok, then option 3 I think fits the bill. Draws will only be recorded if it is still a drawn game after gp. A win in regular time or by gp gets recorded as a win. A loss after gp is recorded as a loss but the team gets a bonus point for the draw after 80 minutes. This matches how the RFL are displaying the table [4]. I'm just glad it's happened early in the season! Nthep (talk) 09:43, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

Looks good to me. J Mo 101 (talk) 18:53, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

Looks good to me as well. WDM10 (talk) 19:02, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

OK, I've amended the two templates to use option 3. Nthep (talk) 23:16, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

Peer review for List of Rugby League World Cup hat-tricks

I've listed my article List of Rugby League World Cup hat-tricks for peer review here. Could somebody please review it as I want to make it a featured list? WDM10 (talk) 07:27, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Australian rugby league premiers

This page contains a lot of the same information that List of NRL Grand finals contains. I believe we should get rid of the grand final information (i.e stadiums, referees, crowds) and move the minor premiers and wooden spoons section in line with the premiers and runners-up. Your thoughts? WDM10 (talk) 03:25, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

Nathan Cleary

Anyone care to comment here? Talk:Nathan Cleary. Doctorhawkes (talk) 09:59, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

NRL Club Timeline

I'm working on an NRL club timeline in my sandbox here and I was wondering if anyone could give some feedback. Anything welcome. WDM10 (talk) 08:56, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Cancelled matches on national teams' results pages

What do we do for 2020 Kangaroo tour matches on the Australian and English national team results pages? WDM10 (talk) 06:04, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Remove them? They weren't played so there aren't any results. Primefac (talk) 21:58, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Cool Just wanted to make sure as in the football circles they sometimes keep cancelled matches with an explanation. WDM10 (talk) 22:11, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

2021 NRL season

hi, the above aricle is up for deletion, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2021 NRL season, thought you would like to know. Coolabahapple (talk) 12:55, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

AfD for 4 articles

FYI, all the NZ RLWC pages are up for deletion here. WDM10 (talk) 06:21, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

2 AfDs

I've started 2 AfDs in the last couple of weeks that require more editors to weigh in:

• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Delaware Black Foxes
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Liam Mulhall (2nd nomination)

Thanks. Ytoyoda (talk) 15:59, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Consider updating WP:RL/N

It seems like the entry for the Rugby League notability criteria (WP:RLN) should be updated, given the language at Wikipedia:WikiProject Rugby league/Notability.

Right now, it reads:

A player or coach of rugby league football is presumed notable if they:

1. Have appeared in at least one match at a Rugby League World Cup tournament, Rugby League Four Nations tournament, Pacific Cup or Rugby League European Cup, or
2. Have appeared in at least one match between Great Britain, England, Wales, France, New Zealand, or Australia prior to 1995, or
3. Have appeared in at least one match of a fully professional club rugby league competition:
   • National Rugby League ^{(see Note 1)}, or
   • Super League ^{(see Note 1)} including Challenge Cup appearances.

I think #1 and #2 are fine, since national team selection is a pretty tough bar to clear, and appearing in major international matches does result in significant coverage. My issue is with #3, since there are players who have appeared in fewer than 10 matches but have not merited enough coverage to meet WP:GNG. Clearly, you can't presume notability based on just a few appearances, and the more detailed explanation reads in part, Any current or former rugby league player who has played none or limited first grade rugby league should not be eligible for an article unless it meets the general notability guideline including reliable secondary sources. However, normally these players only have information listed on their club's official website, which is a violation of Independent of the subject in the general notability guideline.

I propose changing the language at WP:RLN to:

1. Have appeared in at least one match at a Rugby League World Cup tournament, Rugby League Four Nations tournament, Pacific Cup or Rugby League European Cup, or
2. Have appeared in at least one match between Great Britain, England, Wales, France, New Zealand, or Australia prior to 1995, or
3. Have appeared in matches across multiple seasons in a fully professional club rugby league competition:
   • National Rugby League ^{(see Note 1)}, or
   • Super League ^{(see Note 1)} including Challenge Cup appearances.

This helps prevent articles for one-game wonders who don't have enough source material for full articles while providing a clear guideline. Any feedback/suggestions? I bring this up, since there are few AFDs for players who have made a limited number of appearances and the "keep" argument essentially amounts to "Because WP:RLN says so," but I think they miss the intent of WP:RLN.

• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jason Hanrahan
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Steve Lacaze
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alwyn Simpson 20:55, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

I can't say I agree. That would exclude someone like Wally Woodward. Having a quick look through the notability guidelines of AFL, NFL etc, they seem to have the same one game criteria. I suspect any modern player will meet GNG, but it's harder to find the sources for a player pre-internet-news. Hanrahan won the BRL Rothmans Medal, and I'm certain he would have received coverage at the time. What good does that do if I can't show them? Doctorhawkes (talk) 21:15, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

NFL is a different beast because players generally come into the league having received significant coverage during the college years, and because there are no junior sides, you won’t have a case like the 2002 Baby Broncos, a game with a slew of non-senior players.

I’m not sure what you mean by “ What good does that do if I can't show them?” Not meeting WP:RLN doesn’t prevent Hanrahan from having an article. It just means you don’t presume notability. WP:GNG is always the standard. Ytoyoda (talk) 23:16, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

We seem to put ourselves behind other sports such as rugby union, and new female variants of other codes of football. Seems like the tightening up of language would remove the likes of Wally Woodward as highlighted above.Fleets (talk) 19:46, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Jackson Hastings

Australian or British? WDM10 (talk) 04:05, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

I believe precedence is supposed to be given to the country a player represents. I would go with "Australian-born, Great Britain international rugby league footballer". Doctorhawkes (talk) 04:37, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

What about for flags? I've seen both used. WDM10 (talk) 05:13, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

It would be what he is a rugby league footballer, not where he is born, that would be detailed in the infobox and covered in his background.Fleets (talk) 07:43, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

Cool thanks. Britain it is (until he gets a home nations cap anyway). WDM10 (talk) 08:11, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

True then he would that and a Great Britain international, but not English or British as the lead is only concerned with him as a rugby league footballer.Fleets (talk) 08:17, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

Category:Dual-code rugby internationals has been nominated for deletion

Category:Dual-code rugby internationals has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Place Clichy (talk) 11:37, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

Rob Balachandran

Can you please ascertain if this person is notable? I know him personally, so I don't want to take part in any substantive work or discussion. Bearian (talk) 20:16, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Naming convention for sports stadia

A request for comment is open regarding the use of parenthetical disambiguation in relation to articles on sports stadia here: Wikipedia talk:Article titles#RfC Naming convention for sports stadia. Input is welcome. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 20:37, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Creation of an article about Patrick Pedrazzani

Hi, this message to tell you I have created a page on the Francophone wikipedia. Pedrazzani is a former French Rugby League player and a coach.

Link : Patrick_Pedrazzani

Hope it helps and may be of some inspiration.

Cheers,

--Wikitripau (talk) 18:07, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

International Rugby League articles/National articles

Hi - I've found myself tinkering with RL articles about international teams and competitions over the last few years. They are almost always not up to date. Today I've edited the International Rugby League article itself, which is the centre of all that, and it didn't mention the 2017 World Cup or the 2016 Four Nations, so it was about four years out of date. I know you all have other things on your plate, but is there anyone with a special interest who would like to embark on a similar odyssey? I haven't got time in my day to fix all these things. Cheers Stevebritgimp (talk) 00:35, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Hi, I'll try to update anything outdated if I can too. I have previously done so with international team articles. WDM10 (talk) 03:10, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

Help request with finding sources on St. George Dragons players - aussie rugby league

Hello. Does anyone here know where to find aussie rugby photos of St. George Dragons players? There's quite a lot at Wikipedia:Contributor copyright investigations/Vox3000 that need source of origin but none are found online. These include seeing if a black/white version of the photo can be found that was later edited by the user to become colourized. Thanks! --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:32, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Request for Comment on SSN at WP:Notability (sports)

There is a discussion on SSN (sport specific guidelines) at RFC on Notability (sports) policy and reliability issues. Feel free to go there and post your comments. Cassiopeia^(talk) 01:05, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

Proposed change in sports notability policy

A proposal is pending that would prohibit the creation of sports biographies unless supported by "substantial coverage in at least one non-routine source". In other words, articles supported solely by statistical databases would not be permitted, and at least one example of WP:SIGCOV would be required to be included before an article could be created. If you have views on this proposal, one way or the other, you can express those views at Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports)#Fram's revised proposal. Cbl62 (talk) 19:04, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Super League XXVI table

In light of the RFL statement today [5] that league position will be decided on win percentage rather than league points I've changed the table parameters. What the table can't do (at the moment) is display both league points AND win percentage so it just shows win percentage. Also if any games are forfeited like the Salford/Warrington game last season then it only registers as a 24-0 win for the non-forfeiting team and apparently as nothing for the forfeiting team. If this happens the template will start showing errors in preview mode as the number of wins will not equal the number of losses and points for will not equal points against. These errors don't show on the published page but it does mean that we lose the automatic checking of addition. Nthep (talk) 17:17, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

the table does now show win percentage and league points acquired. Nthep (talk) 10:13, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Rugby League coaches

Just wondering if there was an article on head coaches, coaches, coaching or managers. Seems like there should be one, but can't seem to find it under any of the keywords.Fleets (talk) 12:05, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Template:Penrith Panthers current squad

Why is Template:Penrith Panthers current squad being used in 2018 Penrith Panthers season, 2019 Penrith Panthers season, and 2020 Penrith Panthers season? Looks strange to have the 2021 squad in the 2018, 2019, and 2020 articles. 98.230.196.188 (talk) 13:41, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

If the question is "why is it still being used", I suspect the answer is because no one has gone through and updated/noticed the discrepancy. As near as I can tell the template was added during the respective seasons. Primefac (talk) 13:44, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

I fixed Template:Penrith Panthers current squad, but there is the same problem with Template:Manly Warringah Sea Eagles current squad and Template:Gold Coast Titans current squad. 98.230.196.188 (talk) 13:17, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Ground names

There is a lack of consistency over the names used for grounds especially where the stadium uses a sponsor's name for a period. So while a history of Featherstone Rovers would best refer to Post Office Road, should more time defined articles use that name or the name of the ground at the point in time of the artice? For example the history of Featherstone's current season, should it use Post Office Road or the Millennium Stadium (ignoring for this discussion any confusion with the better known Millennium Stadium in Cardiff)? Should Castleford always play at Wheldon Road or is the Mend-a-Hose Jungle OK? Headingley or Emerald Headingley? And take your pick for Huddersfield Giants stadium! Nthep (talk) 08:46, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Other projects prefer to keep sponsor names out of their article names. In an intro it would be page name, known for sponsorship reasons as "Betting Company Stadium". We also fit into these broad rules as alot of rugby league grounds are multi-purpose grounds shared with rugby union, football, etc. The List of sponsored sports venues would be a decent way to check how closely that is followed, but I'm not sure where a specific MOS is located at.Fleets (talk) 08:53, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

That's how I believe it should be, especially considering how often a place like Shark Park can change its name. Can't recall where I saw the guideline, though. Doctorhawkes (talk) 09:17, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

@Fleets I'm not referring to articles about stadia but articles like Super League XXVI results which list the venues. "The Foo Stadium also known as the Bar Ground for sponsorship reasons" is fine in stadia articles and the general principle of Foo would would cover the Leeds and Featherstone cases but what about cases like the Wheldon Road/The Jungle/Mend-a-Hose Jungle scenario? Nthep (talk) 09:26, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

RFC on flags

A RFC is underway which might have a considerable effect on the usage of flags in the articles in this WikiProject. Any input is welcome and you can join the RFC here.Tvx1 17:56, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Combined Nations All Stars

We now have two articles Other Nationalities rugby league team and Combined Nationalities rugby league team claiming the CNAS as the latest incarnation of each. Obviously they can't both be correct so which is it, or neither? Nthep (talk) 16:43, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

Cannabis and sports

New stub: Cannabis and sports. Any project members care to help expand? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 18:00, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

FAR for Karmichael Hunt

I have nominated Karmichael Hunt for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Bumbubookworm (talk) 20:37, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Cameron Smith page move

The is a discussion at Talk:Cameron_Smith#Requested_move_26_July_2021 regarding Cam Smith being moved from his page. Just raising it here for visibility, with no hint of bias one way or the other.Fleets (talk) 08:27, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

Connecticut Wildcats

Article has been nominated for deletion (not by me!). See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Connecticut Wildcats. Thanks c87d98b10 15:55, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Player of the match

In more matches Man of the match is being replaced by Player of the match (and not only in women's games). I propose that in {{rugbyleaguebox}} Motm is replace by Potm. Nthep (talk) 16:31, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

Sydney Roosters FAR

I have nominated Sydney Roosters for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Bumbubookworm (talk) 11:37, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

Rugby league AFDs

I have nominated some rugby league player articles for deletion. See the following discussions:

• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/C. Nash
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/L. Abbott
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/A Allen
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/W. Allman
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/R Adams
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/L. Brown
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/R. Burton
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/F Denholm
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Butler (rugby league)
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/F. Foran
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/T. Jones
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/H Keane
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/V Kennelly
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/W. Lyon
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/T. Oates
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/H. McNamara
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/E. Russell
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/G. Payne
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/R Maher
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/F Moran
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/A. Nicholson

BeanieFan11 (talk) 21:31, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

Tom McCabe (Rugby League player) ‎

Would someone from this WikiProject mind taking a look at Tom McCabe (Rugby League player) and assessing it? I'm not familiar with the notability guidelines for rugby players, but it seems from the article content that this person might be Wikipedia notable. However, the article didn't go there WP:AFC so it was never really given any type of assessment. The creator might also have a COI given some of their posts at WP:THQ#Pictures that are owned by the person who has asked it to be uploaded? what tag do I use to say it's got no copyright?, but wouldn't necessarily mean an article can't be written about McCabe; it might only just mean that it needs some cleaning up. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:30, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

It might be a good idea for someone from this WikiProject to take a look at Talk:Tom McCabe (rugby)#Notability and unsourced content and perhaps reach out to the article's creator stevehogan1605. He might be someone who could ultimately become a valuable contributor to rugby league content on Wikipedia, but he also seems to have a rather ambitious plan of create lots of new articles about Rugby League Ireland players who had international careers. Many of these players may actually be OK to create articles about, but guidance from editors more familiar with Wikipedia and things like WP:RLN as well as where to find reliable sources for rugby might help him avoid problems down the road. -- Marchjuly (talk) 22:24, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Infobox club name coloring

While looking at some non-free images being used in Category:National Rugby League clubs, I noticed that the infobox club names are being colored to reflect each individual team's coloring scheme. Some of these (like Penrith Panthers, St. George Illawarra Dragons, and Wests Tigers) may be problematic per MOS:COLOR because they might be difficult for some readers to read. There's nothing about colorizing club names in Template:Infobox rugby league club; so, I'm not sure whether this convention is just particular to NRL clubs. For reference, something similar has been done for some (but not all) of the teams listed in Category:Defunct NSWRL/ARL/SL/NRL clubs. Is there something wrong with the names being displayed the more conventional way? -- Marchjuly (talk) 23:42, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Proposals as Village Pump re NSPORTS

Your input, one way or the other, on several pending proposals to alter NSPORTS would be welcomed. These proposals are as follows:

• Subproposal 1: Requires "all athlete biographies must demonstrate GNG when notability is challenged at AfD" and that "SIGCOV in multiple secondary, independent reliable sources would have to be produced during the course of an AfD". Also potential limitations/exceptions.
• Subproposal 3: "Remove all simple or mere 'participation' criteria in NSPORT, outside of ones related to Olympics and equivalent events."
• Subproposal 4: "Modify all provisions of NSPORTS that provide that participation in 'one' game/match such that the minimum participation level is increased to 'three' games/matches. This raises the threshold for the presumption of notability to kick in."
• Subproposal 5: "Implement a requirement that all sports biographies and sports season/team articles must, from inception, include at least one example of actual WP:SIGCOV from a reliable, independent source. Mere database entries would be insufficient for creation of a new biography article."
• Subproposal 6: "Conditional on Subproposal 6 passing, should a prod-variant be created, applicable to the articles covered by Subproposal 5, that would require the addition of one reference containing significant coverage to challenge the notice."
• Subproposal 8: "Rewrite the introduction to clearly state that GNG is the applicable guideline, and articles may not be created or kept unless they meet GNG." Further: "Replace all instances of 'presumed to be notable' with 'significant coverage is likely to exist.'
• Subproposal 9: Strike, as allegedly confusing and/or at odds with other parts of NSPORTS, the following sentence from the lead: "The article should provide reliable sources showing that the subject meets the general notability guideline or the sport specific criteria set forth below."
• Subproposal 10: "Require each project that has inclusion criteria based on participation in a league ... within the next 30 days to justify the inclusion of each league. Such justification must include actual 'random' (truly random) sampling showing that 90%-plus of the players in each league receive sufficient SIGCOV to pass GNG. At the end of 30 days, any league as to which the data has not been provided must be stricken from NSPORTS." Cbl62 (talk) 09:40, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

Darryl van der Velde

Listed this article at WP:RM a while ago but doesn't seem to be getting much participation. If anyone is able to provide their input here it would be much appreciated. Thanks! J Mo 101 (talk) 12:13, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

Chicka Madden

While checking in on the Chicka article I was led to the Redfern All Blacks article. 2 of the 10 articles listed as sources have his name in the title. I am wondering if he is notable enough for his own article. If so I hope someone at this project will create it and drop him in at the Chicka article.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:47, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sports has an RFC

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sports has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. WikiCleanerMan (talk) 19:29, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

User script to detect unreliable sources

Main page: User:Headbomb/unreliable

I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to unreliable sources and predatory journals. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the 39th most imported script on Wikipedia. The idea is that it takes something like

• John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14. (John Smith "[https://www.deprecated.com/article Article of things]" ''Deprecated.com''. Accessed 2020-02-14.)

and turns it into something like

• John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14.

It will work on a variety of links, including those from {{cite web}}, {{cite journal}} and {{doi}}.

The script is mostly based on WP:RSPSOURCES, WP:NPPSG and WP:CITEWATCH and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.

Do note that this is not a script to be mindlessly used, and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at User:Headbomb/unreliable. Questions, comments and requests can be made at User talk:Headbomb/unreliable.

- Headbomb {t · c · p · b}

This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from. Delivered by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:02, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

British RL stats

It looks like LoveRugbyLeague have stopped maintaining their player stats pages, as they haven't been updated since the middle of the 2020 season. Fortunately, there is a new website, Rugby League Records, which covers all British RL stats in the summer era.

If there are no objections, I will go ahead and start replacing the links to LoveRugbyLeague, with links to the RKC website instead. J Mo 101 (talk) 10:43, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Barassi Line

Howdy. Some addition input might be required at the Barassi Line page. GoodDay (talk) 15:17, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

format of World Cup articles

There is a discussion at talk:2021 Rugby League World Cup about the formatting of the article and whether match details should be transcluded from other articles or reimbursed separately. Participation welcomed. Nthep (talk) 06:48, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Templates:rugbyleaguebox and rugbyleaguebox collapsible

I'm proposing some small changes to {{rugbyleaguebox}} and {{rugbyleaguebox collapsible}}

1. Add a parameter for touch judges (|touch=) to both templates
2. Add to {{rugbyleaguebox collapsible}} support for separating out scores into try, goal, drop and goal from mark as options instead of just points. This brings it in line with {{rugbyleaguebox}} which already allows either way of recording how the points were scored. It also maintains backwards compatibility with existing use. As with {{rugbyleaguebox}} it is at the users choice whether they use |points= or |try= etc.
3. In both templates make the headings if the |try= etc parameters are used the plurals are displayed i.e. Tries, Goals, Drop goals & Goals from mark.

There are sandboxes for both to view {{rugbyleaguebox/sandbox}} and {{rugbyleaguebox collapsible/sandbox}} with some examples at User:Nthep/sandbox3. Comments? Thoughts? Nthep (talk) 19:49, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

Are touch judges really notable enough to be worth mentioning in the template? I don't think I've ever seen them named in match reports, so they would be very difficult to source in the vast majority of cases. No issues with the other two proposals though. J Mo 101 (talk) 22:18, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

Personally, I don't think touch judges are that notable but I saw that some editors add them after team lists (e.g. International rugby league in 2021) so I thought I'd throw the option in for those who want to use it. Nthep (talk) 06:12, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

As there have been no other comments, I've been BOLD and amended the templates. Nthep (talk) 15:50, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Template:Infobox rugby football league season

Does anyone know how in {{Infobox rugby football league season}} the parameters |top_scorer_link= and |top try scorer_link= are supposed to work. They allow linking but to what I'm not sure. I have seen them linked to the players name but that just doesn't seem right and I can't fathom out what they should link to, if anything. Nthep (talk) 11:11, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

I would imagine the intention was to link to places like Super League § Top Points Scorer by season so that you could compare to other years or players, but if it's not being used correctly (or at all) then I could see it being removed without much issue. Primefac (talk) 11:16, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for that, I think it's more a poor documentation issue than anything else. I might make it a rainy day task to go through the uses and see what may need adjusting.

The parameter I think that does need adding is |top_goal_scorer= as this is a stat regularly recorded and at the moment is a bodge fit into this template. Nthep (talk) 07:37, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Flags in NRL squad templates

Hey, I'm just wondering what the consensus is on the international flags that have been added to the NRL squad templates. I know they used to be there years ago, but were agreed to be removed I believe for irrelevancy. I'd like to hear some other opinions, at the very least I don't think it's relevant to add niche rugby league country's flags like Chile, Nigeria, Serbia etc. to any player that has slight ancestry even when they're Australian/NZ born and haven't even represented these nations internationally. Josh the newcastle fan (talk) 11:24, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

One of the templates for an example to view:

Template:Melbourne Storm current squad

Personally I'd prefer to get rid of them altogether. The sport's representation rules are so difficult that trying to work out if a flag is actual nationality, nation they have represented, or nation they are qualified to appear for, and trying to represent this with an icon is just something we shouldn't bother with. Nthep (talk) 12:16, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

I believe MOS:FLAG supports their removal. A player's nationality is not particularly relevant to their place in an NRL team. And clearly determining players' nationalities is nigh on impossible for many non-rep players.

I already removed the flags from the Wests Tigers squad template before I saw this discussion. Doctorhawkes (talk) 03:11, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Has anybody else have something to add? I would be nice to call a consensus here. Doctorhawkes (talk) 22:49, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

Players are listed with the country they've represented or elected to represent. I honestly don't see such a big issue with the flags. This game is for everyone and in a World Cup year particularly it's quite handy to have a quick view of players representative choice. Heaps of other sports / competitions have the flags... @Therlinsideman

Please remember to sign your comments @Therlinsideman

Agree with the reasoning of @Nthep. It's time to be rid of them in all the NRL squad templates per MOS:FLAG. Storm machine (talk) 00:39, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Also, reading through MOS:SPORTFLAG, the (emphasis added) "...reliable source should be used to show who the sportsperson has chosen to represent" applies here. Yes we know that Victor Radley has chosen to represent England at the World Cup and should be reflected in his article; but to use the template above as an example, Cooper Johns has not publicly stated any intention to potentially represent Italy through his mother's Italian heritage. Storm machine (talk) 01:09, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Cooper Johns has declared https://www.instagram.com/p/CiPCNeBv0SY/. @Therlinsideman

Reminder WP:RS, until then a fan's social media post falls into WP:RUMOUR. Storm machine (talk) 05:25, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Representation is best done in text. Flags are never going to cover things like players who have, for example, already represented a tier 1 nation but have now chosen to represent a tier 2 nation. Also I question the relevance of who they are representing in a template relating to their domestic club. Just because MOS:SPORTSFLAG says flags can be used doesn't mean they have to be used. Nthep (talk) 09:29, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

This has all been discussed before here. Consensus at the time was to remove all flags, but someone seems to have added them back since. I will go ahead and remove them. J Mo 101 (talk) 09:25, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

For clarity's sake, we agree that the flags should be removed from British/French club squads as well, right? They have the same issues as mentioned above, but I had all my edits reverted by a pedant who says the clubs are "not in the NRL"... J Mo 101 (talk) 17:28, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

There's nothing pedantic about pointing out that the above conversation was wholly about the NRL, by title and discussion.Fleets (talk) 17:34, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Then how about the previous discussion I linked to? It seems very churlish to argue that the consensus applies to only one league but not the other. J Mo 101 (talk) 17:51, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

I would point out the long-standing nature of the flags within the templates for non-NRL clubs, versus as a position from six years. I really don't think I'm being churlish in the slightest.Fleets (talk) 18:23, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

I can't see how anything has changed since the last discussion. It's was a majority view to remove then and still is now. MOS:FLAG seems clear to me. It would be nice if we could agree to move on and not be having the same discussion in a few years time. Doctorhawkes (talk) 00:07, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

I'm not sure how the above conversation about the NRL would be a reflection of the whole sport. MOS:FLAG seems clear to me, but likely in a different way, but the same way that WP:Football, WP:Cricket and WP:Rugby_Union see it. We would be going against the grain with other sports, going against six years where it's been accepted, and then linking a discussion about one league and applying it to another on the other side of the planet. You can see why that might rankle people, as I can recognise that the consensus six years ago was ignored in the years afterwards and that could be viewed as wrong on those editors parts. What is fact is that to many the current northern hemisphere view became the status quo, it is in line with other major sports and does fulfil many tenets of MOS:Flag, and I have no great interest in cherrypicking where it may indicate remove or retain, as it does both, depending on your point of view. Ultimately the above discussion by both title and content was about the NRL, not about competitions in the Northern Hemisphere.Fleets (talk) 07:15, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

it's a pity the topic header mentioned NRL rather than in general. My view remains the same regardless of whether we're talking about Australia, the UK or anywhere. Flags are unnecessary cruft at domestic team level. Nthep (talk) 07:51, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

So I've gone through WP:Football, WP:Cricket and WP:Rugby_Union. I don't see them complaining about any flags? Here are wikipedia pages for teams from all those sports from Australian teams.. and guess what they all include flags in the squad template.. Reds Rugby Union: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queensland_Reds#Current_squad . Hurricanes Cricket: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobart_Hurricanes#Current_squad . Roar cricket: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisbane_Roar_FC#Players. So it all seems pretty weird that some people complain about having flags in the nrl squad templates when they are literally in every wikipedia sports team page.. Anyways I'll be adding them back now that I see they are used. @Therlinsideman (talk) 03:15, 26 September 2022 (AEST)

I don't want to be blunt, but if you return them against consensus, you're likely to be banned again.Doctorhawkes (talk) 07:58, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Club historical squad navboxes

What is everyone's opinion of these? I think they may have had some value in the past when articles for individual seasons of various tournaments hadn't been created yet, but that's no longer the case.

I feel like they are fine to use for teams who win a major competition such as a Grand Final, but some of the others seem excessive (e.g. Template:Batley - 1924–25 Yorkshire Cup Final runners-up). If a template was created for every team that ever reached a final, you would end up with serious navbox creep for players with long careers at successful clubs. The runner-up squad navboxes in particular seem to be a bit unnecessary, in my opinion. J Mo 101 (talk) 20:16, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Personally with more and more tournament/season articles including line-ups of finalists, I'd support removal of them. Also they are becoming of less use as the mobile website doesn't display navbox templates, so somewhere in the region of 50% of readers of Wikipedia aren't even going to see them. Nthep (talk) 21:31, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

I would think only for premierships.Doctorhawkes (talk) 04:18, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Please define premierships or we risk degenerating into another "it's different in the UK and Australia" situation. I suspect the proliferation is worse with UK players as we have more competitions to choose from:

1. Super League grand finals (and Championship finals from pre-SL times)
2. Million Pound Game/(current) Championship play-off finals
3. League 1 play-off finals
4. Challenge Cup finals
5. Lancashire/Yorkshire Cup finals
6. other cups, current or historical e.g 1895 Cup, Regal Trophy

As the navboxes can't be seen through the mobile view, I'm becoming more attracted to the idea of scrapping all of them. If people have the time to create the navbox then they should have the time to add the team details to the relevant article and link to the article e.g 1924–25 Yorkshire Cup in the pages on Batley players for whom we have articles. Nthep (talk) 08:07, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Thankyou for pointing out that there are and have been multiple competitions in the Northern Hemisphere. Whilst I can understand that losing a final isn't necessarily worthy of a navbox, scrapping them altogether would be the very embodiment of throwing the baby out with the bath water. Many readers and editors do use the navboxes as ways to navigate to linked articles, and it would be wholly out of step with other WP communities to even begin to entertain the wholesale removal.Fleets (talk) 08:15, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Fair enough, but please let's come to some consensus as to when they are applicable. I stand by the point that we shouldn't just be adding navboxes or updating infoboxes without also adding content to the main body of articles. I acknowledge that a lot or rugby league content is statistical but I do think that as a project we are getting lazy and updating figures without adding prose, and in some cases sources contrary to core WP policy . Nthep (talk) 08:30, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

If enough people feel strongly about it, I would be fine keeping them for Grand Final and Challenge Cup winners, but the rest can go. (from an Australian perspective, I would support the removal of, for example, second tier competition navboxes such as Template:Redcliffe Dolphins squad - 2000 Queensland Cup premiers). WP Football doesn't use navboxes at all for club teams (you won't find any navboxes for Premier League or Champions League winning teams) so if anything, RL is the project going against the grain on this. J Mo 101 (talk) 08:39, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

I don't watch non-NRL rugby league games in Australia, the audience is much lower than that of the NRL, but it is a high-level of rugby. The question would be are you seeing alot of red-links in that navbox, and is it justifying its existence. The same could be said for youth-level teams. There may be redlinks, or you might get 100% of players who go on to have a career. It's potentially about how we, and other people use the article to navigate, ie potentially short and easy links over prose. To me a navbox has to represent an achievement, ie winning a trophy, being named in a significant squad for tournament or being recognised for an achievement in their adult career. 2nd place in a final isn't anything that any sportsperson should be proud of, nor should it be recognised as one here. That's the line; winning something, national squad in major tournament, links to clubs (coach, hall of fame, etc) recognised by peers (Clive Churchill medal, MOS, CCF MOTM, etc). I'd be up for kicking out milestone games and points before chipping away at teams who won trophies, but that's just my quick thoughts on the matter.Fleets (talk) 09:02, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Since removal of the runner-up squads seems uncontroversial, I'll go ahead and nominate those for deletion for the time being. Could use some further input whether the navboxes for winners of minor comps (Lancashire/Yorkshire cups, Regal Trophy etc.) should go as well. J Mo 101 (talk) 08:25, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

I can support the deletion nomination on the losers navboxes as and when I notice them. It would be interesting to hear how many of the winners "minor comps" navboxes were out there. They did have a significant RL impact as cups at the time, and we don't want to fall foul of Wikipedia:Recentism just because they are no longer current competitions.Fleets (talk) 08:35, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Heritage numbers

Heritage numbers have been added to numerous player articles over the years, by multiple editors. I'm just hiding them with code , as to me they disrupt the flow of a lead paragraph. If anyone feels that they should remain visibly, be moved elsewhere in the article or if they should be deleted altogether, please let me know.Fleets (talk) 08:49, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

I always remove them from the lede when I remember to. With maybe a few exceptions such as if a player was awarded heritage #1 or some other significant milestone (number 100, 1000 etc.), I'm not sure they are worth mentioning at all apart from in player lists. J Mo 101 (talk) 09:32, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Australia national rugby league team page moved

I'm assuming that no-one had ever thought that there was a primary topic here. I'm very happy for the Jillaroos to be disambiguated off the main article, but I don't feel the move by Clifton9 is in line with primary topic disambiguation, MOS, other sports evidenced with the England national football team, etc. I thought I'd highlight it here, but anyone feel free to undo an editor that I hadn't seen previously touch a league article.Fleets (talk) 04:30, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

Reverted back Australia men's national rugby league team as it appears Clifton9 moved the page around a year ago, and a trusted editor moved it back citing primary topic. I did this assuming no-one here would have an issue on that basis.Fleets (talk) 06:43, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

York City Knights

A move discussion is underway at Talk:York City Knights#Requested move 14 October 2022. Following the announcement [6] that the club is renaming itself, the current article title York City Knights is out of date. Nthep (talk) 11:35, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Naming the men's competition article the "2021 Rugby League World Cup"

It is being organised and promoted as an event with three competitions (Men, Women, and Wheelchair). I don't disagree with the three articles being split but surely the men's shouldn't be called the "2021 Rugby League World Cup". It would be like clicking on the Rugby sevens at the 2020 Summer Olympics article and it only be about the Men's tournament (which it isn't).

by James Lewis Bedford (talk) 18:37, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

Having said that though I wouldn't be opposed to moving the Women's and Wheelchair to the Men's article. Neither seem particularly long and there is a crossover. by James Lewis Bedford (talk) 18:55, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

There's a already a suggestion at talk:2021_Rugby_League_World_Cup#Article_revamp_proposal to remove the common information into an overarching article. I'd be against any proposal to merge the women's and wheelchair articles into an article about the men's tournament. Nthep (talk) 19:00, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

Apologies, I did see the notice at the top of this talk page but assumed it was referring to the other splitting proposals over there (I should have checked the dates closer as it obviously wasn't referring to 2019 but I lazily didn't get that far).

I would support the changes proposed there, it makes sense to rename to 2021 Rugby League World Cup – Men's tournament and the overarching draft article looks good. Consider this void. by James Lewis Bedford (talk) 19:13, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

Spooky that we both used the same example of the 2020 Olympic Rugby Sevens by James Lewis Bedford (talk) 19:42, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

Whilst I can understand where this is coming from I thought that this was covered off in the 2021 Festival of World Cups. I can appreciate the umbrella term being used, but there is a clear primary topic and so I think I wider discussion might have been warranted (I also did not notice the above). The timing was bad due to the biggest exposure the game (including all three elements; mens, womens and wheelchair) have gotten in many years and similarly to the opening ceremony we are left with broken links and a lack of clarity. We should have had a Did You Know on the main page, but instead we are still not sure what the tournament is. I would revert back to the consistency based on primary topic, build up better disambiguators, or else someone has to rationalise quite alot of broken links when you look at what links here. I'm not wholly against the move, just pointing out there is alot more than the first step which is just moving the page.Fleets (talk) 06:12, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

On the links: prime issue was a WP:2R which another editor has cleaned up for me. We need a new usurped article called the 2021 Rugby League World Cup. That means checking some of the links to see they are referring to primarily the men's tournament or the overall competition. I started this yesterday and a lot of the links are primarily about the venues (thus the latter) so the link to the usurped page makes sense to remain. There is still work to be done though. I think there was a draft page on the linked above talk page for a new umbrella article.

Sigh. The article has been renamed again. If only the consensus and consistency that was reached with the four articles was maintained for more than just a few days. Storm machine (talk) 06:12, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

So obvious is that editor's failure to even take a second to look around is how the women's and wheelchair name remains the same.

by James Lewis Bedford (talk) 10:01, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

RLWC not deemed notable

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jack Colovatti. This article was put up for deletion, with playing in the World Cup not being deemed notable. The article has since had a number of cited sources added to it, with 25 sources that call him out specifically, or confirm him featuring at the World Cup. I would appreciate any input that you may have, for its deletion or against it. I would loathe to have a player featuring in the very highest point that you can reach in sport, and have that be deemed non-notable by people who do not follow the greatest game.Fleets (talk) 07:45, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Rugby League World Cup pages being moved

We have had a number of Rugby League World Cup by year pages moved, beyond the current one. Can any potential moves be based on a consensus being reached, and a valid rationale being given for any potential move. We appear to have a number of pages shifting slightly without proper merit, or certainly without discussion.Fleets (talk) 11:03, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

RLWC 2021 DAB

See a discussion on Talk:2021 Rugby League World Cup (disambiguation) – User:Fleets seems determined to not include the 2021 Rugby League World Cup as a link, and wrongfully pipe the 2021 Men's Rugby League World Cup instead which is a clear breach of MOS:DABPRIMARY that says: "The primary topic is the one reached by using the disambiguation page title without the (disambiguation) qualifier." Comment by James Lewis Bedford (talk) 15:33, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

You've both had your say. And then some. Please let someone else weigh in on the matter now. Primefac (talk) 17:13, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Agree, I submitted a WP:3O ten or so minutes ago. by James Lewis Bedford (talk) 17:15, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Moved comments here to the Talk:2021 Rugby League World Cup (disambiguation) by James Lewis Bedford (talk) 17:22, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

RLN

I noticed the guideline was removed on 4 November, will the WikiProject guideline need to change as a result? Comment by James Lewis Bedford (talk) 09:11, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

I can't say I'm upset that RLN has gone. Like too many SNG it was open to abuse by being stated as the definitive requirement for notability rather than, imo, a guide to when subjects are likely to be notable. All articles should use WP:GNG to decide if a subject is notable or not. Nthep (talk) 10:14, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Yes @Nthep, at least from the brief stuff I've read on the SNG talk pages the rationale seems sound. As for the current WPRL essay all the "supporting guidance" stuff looks ok to stay in place as that's essentially just referring back to WP:GNG in a RL context. It just the section above that about appearance-related criteria that will probably need nuking. Comment by James Lewis Bedford (talk) 12:15, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

I don't really agree with nuking RLN altogether, but I guess it's too late to do anything about it now. The vast majority of players who've appeared in the NRL/Super League easily meet WP:SPORTBASIC, in my opinion. J Mo 101 (talk) 15:49, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates#2021 Rugby League World Cup (delayed to 2022)

There is a discussion over at Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates#2021 Rugby League World Cup (delayed to 2022) that may interest you. by James Lewis Bedford (talk) 19:47, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

Template for sports articles lacking sources containing significant coverage

The 2022 NSPORTS RfC added a requirement that all sports articles are required to have a source that contains significant coverage of the topic. To help identify sports articles that lack this I've created Template:No significant coverage (sports); please add it to any such articles that you encounter, and if you are looking for an article to improve the relevant categories may be useful. BilledMammal (talk) 13:01, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

• Two points. First, the RfC was limited to sports biographies, not "all sports articles." Second, the template has been nominated for deletion. See TfD discussion here. It would be prudent to await the outcome of the TfD before rolling this template out. Cbl62 (talk) 16:56, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Squad templates - testing request

I've been working on {{Rugby league match squad}} to expand the functionality. This is in the module sandbox and as explained at {{Rugby league match squad/doc/sandbox}} the template will now support the following in addition to the current functionality:

1. left, centre or right-alignment on the page (as can already be done with {{Wheelchair rugby league match squad}})
2. colour formatting in the cells containing the team names (again already present in {{Wheelchair rugby league match squad}})
3. abbreviated position names e.g. FB rather than Fullback etc.

I haven't made these changes live yet as although I've done some tests, see User:Nthep/sandbox9, I'd prefer to see some wider testing done. So if anyone wants to make some more tests e.g. with the World Cup squads, your favourite domestic match or pure fantasy? please do so. The module is invoked by using {{Rugby league match squad/sandbox}}. Ping me with any feedback, bugs or add comments at Template talk:Rugby league match squad. Nthep (talk) 09:53, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Not something I'm likely to use, so not much help with testing, but it looks great. Doctorhawkes (talk) 10:50, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

I've now made the changes live. It hasn't affected any current usages of the template that I've looked at so fingers crossed, I haven't broken anything. Nthep (talk) 14:50, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

About 2022 City vs Country Origin and 2021 City vs Country Origin

Hi all. I can see that 2021 City vs Country Origin has never existed. The NSWRL website tells us that the 2021 weekend included a wheelchair rugby league City vs Country. Great for those elite athletes, great for our game if that article gets started. Your thoughts about this? MySouthBunniesForLyf aka User:Shirt58 (talk) 🦘 11:33, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Perhaps a Wheelchair rugby league in Australia article might be a great spot to start compiling a brief history of the sport in this country, annual events like Origin, representative fixtures you've mentioned, and other competitions. Without looking too hard, it might be tough to find WP:SIGCOV for more than that kind of article for the moment. Storm machine (talk) 23:41, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Further to my comments, the 2021 and 2022 City vs Country matches are already covered in the 2022 New South Wales Rugby League and 2021 New South Wales Rugby League articles – if further coverage is available of the wheelchair events, they would be the appropriate articles to expand upon. Storm machine (talk) 05:06, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

That sounds like redirects to the relevant section would be a good idea then. Primefac (talk) 10:28, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Wheelchair Rugby League

I'm new to Wikipedia and would like to add more information about Wheelchair Rugby League which I have a lot of specialist knowledge about having played for over ten years. Can I have some guidance on how to proceed! :) Gabriel Gatsby007 (talk) 14:45, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

Infoboxes in World Cup squads articles

Can someone else please weigh in at Talk:2021 Women's Rugby League World Cup squads#Infobox? For some reason, User:Fleets seems to think it's a good idea to add an infobox to the page. User:Nhoj1898 initiated the discussion, explaining their reasons for adding it, which I have since addressed, but after nearly four days, there has been no response from either of them. I see that Nhoj1898 is attempting to create a new version of the infobox in a sandbox, but that hardly qualifies as contributing to a constructive discussion. It would really help if some established WP:RL editors would contribute to the discussion and get things moving. – PeeJay 19:10, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

There's multiple issues with that article that are probably worth pursuing only after the tournament has been completed Storm machine (talk) 05:36, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

@Storm machine: Would you mind joining in the conversations at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2022_December_12#Template:RLWC_Infobox and Template_talk:Infobox_rugby_league_tour#Template_purpose? They could use some input from editors who aren't myself or User:Fleets. – PeeJay 19:50, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Naming of future RLWC articles

Prior to the recent World Cups, this project's naming convention for the tournaments was fairly simple, XXXX Rugby League World Cup relates to the men's tournament while any other concurrent tournament was disambiguated as XXXX women's/wheelchair rugby league world cup. However the equal prominence given to the three tournaments forming the 2021 RLWC seems to have reached consensus that the men's tournament was not a primary topic and that it was (eventually settled upon) as 2021 Men's Rugby League World Cup. As the IRL and organisers of the next tournament seem to be keeping the same equal prominence between the various cups, then I suggest that we should for the 2025 tournament keep the same naming convention as finally settled upon for 2021 namely:

• 2025 Rugby League World Cup relates to the overall organisation of the tournaments e.g. host selection, locations etc and summarises the separate tournaments;
• 2025 Men's Rugby League World Cup is the detailed article about the men's tournament;
• Women's, wheelchair, youth and festival (if any) follow the same nomenclature.

I raise this now as I really want to avoid the multiple moves and fractured discussions that have occurred over the last 2-3 months in respect of the 2021 tournaments and the huge number of redirects created, deleted, reinstated and overwritten (I'm not sure we have found all the double redirects yet). I also think that the men's competition is no longer a PRIMARYTOPIC in the international game in the way that the men's Super League and NRL are in domestic competitions i.e. I'm not suggesting that 2023 NRL season be renamed 2023 Men's NRL season . Nthep (talk) 16:08, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Are they not fundamentally unequal tournaments with one having the history and media exposure and others who have little or no presence. The articles that have been created for World Cup Qualifying back that up. I believe that the umbrella setup, with your primary and others is the way to go. I would never claim the rugby club Harlequins should say there full name every time, when Harlequins Rugby League existed at the same time. I've watched wheelchair, womens , PD and youth games; they are all different, but none of them has the power to even come close to the primary topic in terms of column inches, video views, tv figures, (weighting) in tv contracts, (recognised) personalities, etc. I see 2021 format change as an aberration that was pushed through whilst fans were on their way to the opening ceremony, not the continuation of decades of WC history in the sport.Fleets (talk) 15:11, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

I don't believe that the history of the men's tournament is relevant here. No one is doubting that it is the main tournament in terms of attendance, viewing figures, etc. But the fact it that the organisers have given equal prominence to men's, women's, and wheelchair in 2021, and used the term "2021 Rugby League World Cup" to refer to all three tournament. By reading early reports it looks like equal prominence of those three tournaments will continue in 2025 as well as being given to the Youth World Cup so the current page 2025 Rugby League World Cup should cover all four tournaments in as equal weight as possible and a "2025 Men's Rugby League World Cup" page should be created to specially go in detail about the men's tournament. Any other minor tournaments should be put in the "2025 Festival of World Cups" page which ideally should be a subsection of the "2025 Rugby League World Cup" page. As already mentioned, this should NOT affect Super League and NRL as the men's competitions are not being referred to as the Men's Super League or Men's NRL But the Men's Rugby League World Cup is now being referred to as the Men's Rugby League World Cup by both organisers and media therefore Wikipedia should adopt the same naming conventions. Mn1548 (talk) 20:36, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Latrell

Any help at Latrell Mitchell would be appreciated. Doctorhawkes (talk) 08:25, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

RfC on Template talk:2022–23 Top 14 Table

An RfC on a topic of interest to this wikiproject has been opened at Template talk:2022–23 Top 14 Table on whether to transition the league standing table to a Module:Sports based table or to continue to use the wikitext table. --(loopback) ping/whereis 07:27, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Wrong code but thanks for the notification anyway. Nthep (talk) 10:50, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Wrong code? If you're talking about union vs league I notified both wikiprojects. The RfC guidelines say to notify the primary project and any related ones, figured the two kinds of rugby are pretty closely related but apologies if that's incorrect. --(loopback) ping/whereis 12:22, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

18th player

As the RFL have moved in line with the NFL to allow teams to name a concussion sub in the starting line up, I've amended the template {{Rugby league match squad}} to make the parameters |homeIN5=/|awayIN5= default to Concussion substitute or CS if you want to use the abbreviations rather than the full title. If you want IN5 to still be an interchange e.g. pre-season warm-up game then adding |titleIN5= to Interchange will do the job. I've also changed the default squad size to 18.

A purely stylistic issue, I suggest that any interchange player/concussion sub be marked in italics to indicate they didn't actually play. Nthep (talk) 15:33, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Add, I think I have caught all mainspace usage of the template to fix any errors in titles the module change may have caused. Nthep (talk) 16:04, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

A bit of guidance for new editor, perhaps?

Hi all,

Could we possibly help out this relatively new editor?

WP:ANI thread here.

I've suggested they may be interested in this WikiProject.

(Also, no prizes will be given for guessing why this post is formatted in some not so randomly picked colour.)

User:Shirt58 (talk) 🦘 09:45, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

2025 Rugby League World Cup qualification

Europe

I don't see how the 2021 Euro D is part of the qualification for the WC. The tournament was intended for 2020, five years before the tournament with another WC before it. The Euros have undergone a massive restructure since. Plus there are no souces (that I could find) that states that the top two of that competition would progress for further WC qualification.

MEA

Again, nothing suggests that the 2022 tournament has any bearing on WC qualification, and suggests that the 2022 tournament is qualification for the 2023 tournament which isn't in the sources given or consistent with previous MEA tournaments.

Thanks Mn1548 (talk) 20:11, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Europe. This says 2021 Euro D was the first part of qualifying as it saw the promotion of two teams to Euro B. Nthep (talk) 20:24, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Club season articles

Just a thought given what's been happening around a few of the NRL club 2023 season articles with a particularly pedantic editor on the prowl – I wonder whether the Project could head to their NRL team's article to reference/source and perhaps write some prose, so that articles don't run afoul of some of the interpretations being thrown about.

Articles should have more than just tables. If you're looking for inspiration, look around at some of the EPL club or NFL franchise articles. I know that News Corp newspaper sites are mostly paywalled these days, but there should be useful articles to reference at the Nine Media, ABC, ESPN Australia, Zero Tackle, Fox Sports and some of the other websites apart from just the official club and NRL websites. By all means use the official websites, but sprinkle in some of the independent media sources to withstand any policy compliance issues. Storm machine (talk) 02:47, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

I know you're probably trying to not throw anyone under any buses, but a bit more information would be helpful. Which page(s) specifically? What is pedantic about their editing? etc. Primefac (talk) 07:49, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Doing a quick check around the NRL, we currently have:

• an AfD discussion against the Dragons article;
• an AfD discussion against the Tigers article;
• a new Titans article after the previous version was sent back to drafts;
• {{primary sources}} tags on the Broncos and Warriors articles; and
• a {{multiple issues}} tag on the Raiders article.

We have had a welcome influx of new rookie editors who have been creating and updating articles of late, but it seems the attention of the wiki deletionists have turned to the rugby league space. Storm machine (talk) 23:06, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

The lack of prose isn't limited to club articles. Far too many pages about the sport are little more than numerous statistics with minimal commentary. Nthep (talk) 09:08, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Another attempt to delete the Titans article has appeared, did they forget this was already tried? Either way, seems this person is not going to give up lightly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Local Potentate (talk • contribs) 03:30, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

League Cup

The name of the main article for the old Regal Trophy/John Player Trophy competition is currently at League Cup (rugby league). Somebody moved it there claiming it was the competition's official name, but does anyone have a source which verifies that? J Mo 101 (talk) 19:12, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Interesting one. All the contemporary records I can find always refer to it by it's sponsored name. Even from the first announcement in 1971 it was reported as the Players No 6 Trophy. I think League Cup has become a common(ish) shorthand for the competition to aggregate all it's playings under whatever sponsored name. That way at least you know that Players No 6 John Player Trophy, John Player Special Trophy, Regal Trophy are all the same competition.

Was that ever it's official name? Unsure but inclined to say no, and that's because it looks more to have been the brainchild of Imperial Tobacco who went to the RFL with the idea rather than the RFL coming up with an idea then looking for a sponsor. Nthep (talk) 11:36, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

Ok, that's what I thought. I came to the same conclusion when trying to investigate if it was ever known by an unsponsored name.

In the absence of an official name, I think I am inclined to revert the name of the main article to "Regal Trophy", per WP:UCRN, then amend the name for each season article to the name it was known as at the time (e.g. 1971–72 Players No. 6 Trophy). It's not ideal, given the competition had several different names during its lifespan, but this seems to be the approach taken by other sports projects (e.g. Friends Provident Trophy in cricket). J Mo 101 (talk) 17:23, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

Let's do a bit more digging first, League Cup has been the title for eight years so there's no urgency. Nthep (talk) 18:34, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

I trawled through the British Newspaper Archive for a bit and can see it was occasionally referred to as the "Rugby League Trophy" competition, but this is a bit generic to use as the article title. I think it's likely that it has just been referred to informally as the League Cup due to it's similarity with the Football League Cup (i.e. frequently sponsored knockout tournament which is secondary in status to the sport's primary cup competition).

I'll give it a few more days in case anyone else can provide evidence to the contrary before moving the page. Happy to propose a RM first as well if it's considered controversial enough. J Mo 101 (talk) 22:01, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

I've been digging a bit more too and come to the same conclusion that it was reported on under the sponsor's name except very early on, i.e. before the sponsor was announced, as a new rugby knockout trophy/competition. Nthep (talk) 06:56, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

If the tournament is (almost) always referred to by the sponsor name, then we should probably change our article titles to match. I know it's a bit of apples and oranges (they're both fruit though) but rugby union does that for their tourneys. Primefac (talk) 07:29, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

The above seems pretty unanimous, so I've gone ahead and moved the page. If any new evidence does turn up it can always be re-visited. J Mo 101 (talk) 18:05, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Amature Rugby League in the UK

All articles linked in Rugby League Conference#Former divisions within the RLC section (with the exception of the National Division article) are, to be frank, terrible! They aren't / poorly sourced, constantly contradict each other, and do not seem to have any information past 2011. Due to the inconsistencies with in them and lack of findable sources I am having trouble fixing them. If others can't help fix them then they all need deleting. In addition, due to not being updated since 2011 there is no record of how they related to those leagues bellow the National Conference League found Rugby League Conference#Successor leagues and I suspect there are mutiple article about the same thing. Mn1548 (talk) 19:58, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Some information might still be available on archived copies of the websites. Using the wayback machine for http://www.rugbyleagueconference.co.uk/ and exploring the sitemap/URLs gives several pages that could be helpful, for example: https://web.archive.org/web/20131120074216/http://www.rugbyleagueconference.co.uk/about_ncl EdwardUK (talk) 06:56, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

Sin bins in player articles

I've noticed in Tino Fa'asuamaleaui and Dale Finucane the inclusion of a sinbin. We don't report every sinbin a player receives, only I think if it leads to a suspension. Asking for community input if we include sinbins in player articles. If there is a pattern of sinbinning like Victor Radley then I think it merits inclusion. LibStar (talk) 03:12, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Unless a yellow card results in further sanctions, and/or is remarked upon for some other reason (such as a news outlet noticing that Joe Bloggs has received a yellow card in 6 straight games), I do not think they need to be mentioned at all. Primefac (talk) 08:14, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Makes sense to me. Doctorhawkes (talk) 08:51, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, not to be too picky, but it makes sense to include them or makes sense to leave them out? Primefac (talk) 08:55, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

I say only if it leads to suspension or if there is a regular pattern. There are probably thousands of player articles and we don't detail every single sin bin in their career LibStar (talk) 09:19, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Sorry. I agree with Libstar. Only include if there is a source discussing a pattern. Doctorhawkes (talk) 12:02, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

@Sully198787: LibStar (talk) 12:14, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Jillaroos stats

Anybody have a good source? Rugby League Project and nrl.com seem to be missing games. Doctorhawkes (talk) 08:57, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

There's the RL Record Keepers Club, but I don't think anyone has complete stats at the moment. J Mo 101 (talk) 13:47, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

2026 world cups

Apart from dealing with an unattributed copy & paste and redirect of 2025 Rugby League World Cup. I'd suggest that we are best dealing with 2026 as a new tournament with 2025 cancelled. The background with multiple different hosts, a reduction in the number of participating teams just makes it easier to deal with 2026 on a separate basis. Also Troy Grant's statement includes the phrase The cancellation of France 2025 ... [7] not "the postponement". 2025 can be closed using today's announcements as the closure and 2026 started from scratch - obviously it needs to reference back to why it's happening in 2026 and some background but not an in-depth retelling of why 2025 didn't happen. Nthep (talk) 18:06, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Providing all 2025 articles are kept with a first sentence of "The 2025 Rugby League World Cup was a cancelled tournament...", or something similar, I have no objections to new articles being made for the 2026 tournaments. Providing (as mentioned here) there are links back to 2025 with reasons for the change in date and on 2025 article it links to the 2026 replacement tournament. Mn1548 (talk) 18:40, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

no suggestion on my part to delete any of the 2025 articles. I've already made some amendments to 2025 Rugby League World Cup to show it as cancelled. Nthep (talk) 19:03, 3 August 2023 (UTC).

There might be some value in having a specific article on France's withdrawal (e.g. Withdrawal of France as 2025 Rugby League World Cup hosts), but I would personally move/merge all 2025 articles with the 2026 pages. The event never happened and was re-scheduled for the following year before qualification barely even began, so there isn't really significant enough content to justify separate articles. J Mo 101 (talk) 07:09, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

I agree there are a number of articles relating to 2025 that can go, e.g anything to do with qualification, but I think there is enough to maintain a single article i.e. 2025 Rugby League World Cup that covers both abortive hostings, what the format of the tournaments would have been, and why it was all cancelled. And then start 2026 articles based on yesterday's announcement. Nthep (talk) 08:43, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Or just use that as the first section of the 2026 article. There is nothing to say about 2025 other than it was cancelled (and why). Primefac (talk) 10:48, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

British rugby league system

I'm having trouble understand the purpose of the "Professional structure" and "Amateur structure" sections of this article. It give a more detailed overview that the "men's structure" section but is a large part not current which makes me think it should be incorporated into the "history" section. Thoughts? Mn1548 (talk) 16:26, 12 September 2023 (UTC)