Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Basketball/Archive 16

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Women's players' leads

Should a bio's lead say that she is a 'basketball player" or a "women's basketball" player? Namiba reverted it back to "women's" at Sabrina Ionescu. Is there a standard? I don't normally edit many women's players, but a cursory look seemed like the standard was to just use plain "basketball player". I can see arguments being that:

1. It promotes women's basketball
2. It stigmatizes the women's game as a lower form of basketball, giving men's basketball the perception of being more dominant when it is just referred to as plain "basketball".

Namiba's edit summary said "she plays women's basketball, which has slightly modified rules. That's why there is a separate Wikipedia article for it." —Bagumba (talk) 13:51, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Basketball is the most widely played sport that doesn't have universal rules, save for the height of the hoop/goal. Are we doing the same for high school, college, NBA, WNBA, etc. players? E.g. <This player> is a college basketball player"? Howard the Duck (talk) 14:09, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

The lead to Bronny James mentions that describes him as a high school basketball player. Men's basketball and women's basketball have different rules at the high school, collegiate, professional, and international levels. We should distinguish between them.--User:Namiba 14:12, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Women's basketball rules aren't even universal. WNBA has different rules to FIBA's, which are still different from EuroLeague Women... and don't get me started on FIBA 3x3. When you say "women's basketball", what exactly do you mean by it? "Women's basketball" also used to mean netball. The article for women's basketball discusses the sport as how FIBA wanted it to be played. Calling Sabrina Ionescu as a "women's basketball" player seems to be a stretch when she isn't playing FIBA rules for most of her career starting earlier this year. Howard the Duck (talk) 14:27, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Bronny's article seems to be suffering the same issues though. Are American high school basketball rules universal? If it is, "American high school basketball player" seems appropriate. If not, we'll, I'm stuck. Howard the Duck (talk) 14:29, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

We should worry less about the standardization of rules than what league they play in. Ionescu plays in the Women's National Basketball Association, which does not use the same rules as the National Basketball Association. Therefore, she is a women's basketball player, regardless as to whether the WNBA plays under FIBA rules or not. She is in Category:American women's basketball players as well.--User:Namiba 14:33, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

"Women's basketball" predominantly discusses basketball as it is played in leagues using FIBA's rules subset for women. Ionescu is quite clearly not playing under the rules as described in "Women's basketball". If we'd need to discuss what set of rules she is playing, I'd rather describe her as a WNBA player, instead of a "women's basketball" player. FIBA women's rules and WNBA rules are as different to the rules played by men and younger people... It's even arguable that U.S. men's college basketball rules are closer to WNBA rules, with them shooting the three-pointer from the same distance. Howard the Duck (talk) 14:43, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

The WNBA defines itself as a women's basketball league. No one disputes that it is a women's basketball league. Everything else you've described around which rules they play by is basically irrelevant.--User:Namiba 14:49, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

If the argument is "we'd include 'women's basketball' or 'high school basketball' because they have rules different from that being followed by adult men", and "women's basketball" refers to one subset of rules played by women, and Ionescu is clearly not playing "women's basketball" as understood by most people, calling her a "women's basketball player" seems to be a bad idea. "High school basketball" is different subset of rules of basketball. "Women's basketball" is different from the rules being used by the WNBA. Makes more sense to call her a WNBA basketball player, isn't it? Howard the Duck (talk) 14:53, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

When she played at Oregon, she was a women's basketball player. When she plays with the Liberty, she is a women's basketball player. When she represents USA basketball in FIBA competitions, she is also a women's basketball player. Regardless of the level, literally no one in the world disputes that she is a women's basketball player. I am not sure why this is difficult to understand. She was the AP women's basketball POY [1].--User:Namiba 14:58, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Eh... when she was at Oregon, she wasn't playing "women's basketball" as understood by most people... well maybe for FIBA competitions, yes. You said Bronny James, who is quite clearly biologically male, uses "American high school basketball player" because he uses American high school basketball rules. Ionescu is clearly not playing "women's basketball" rules; she's playing WNBA rules (which are different from women's basketball rules, and are probably closer to basketball played by some men). She's not a "women's basketball" player, but a WNBA player. Howard the Duck (talk) 15:03, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

High school vs college vs professional is describing the age/level of competition, not rules. Anyone seeing the pronoun "she" (non-binary cases aside) or "Women's National Basketball Association" can figure it out.—Bagumba (talk) 15:36, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

I understand that, but in basketball's case, age/level of competition has had, and still has, different rules for each age bracket or level of competition or gender. If we're basing it on what "rules" or "code" the player is following, "women's basketball" or "high school basketball" seems to be needed (although interestingly we don't do that for adult men). Now, if we're solely doing this because of gender, and we're not doing this for men but only for women, there's a problem. Howard the Duck (talk) 15:41, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Bagumba, I would support an RFC on using men's basketball / women's basketball. This would avoid ghettoizing women's basketball players and would match Category:Men's basketball players and Category:Women's basketball players. I notice that men's basketball redirects to basketball, which seems inappropriate given the circumstances.--User:Namiba 15:40, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Namiba, I'm content to see the feedback here for now.—Bagumba (talk) 15:47, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Is there any differences in the FIBA rules regarding men's and women's basketball except the size of the ball? Alvaldi (talk) 16:45, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

I was supposed to say the three point lines are different but I suppose they aren't now. I suppose the length of the game is the same. Howard the Duck (talk) 17:06, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

You know, after looking at this, FIBA doesn't make any distinctions nowadays (again, save for the size the ball, which doesn't really make the women's game different from the men's, at least tactically), so I dunno what's the point of specifying "women's basketball" in 2020. Howard the Duck (talk) 17:12, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

It’s just a basketball player. Whether or not the person is a woman will be obvious from the context by use of she/her. Besides, if you are going to use women’s why wouldn’t you also add “men’s” to male players? Rikster2 (talk) 19:33, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Also, we don't designate men's or women's golfers, even though LPGA plays courses that are on average 800 yards shorter than the PGA. Rikster2 (talk) 19:49, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Category:Female golfers and Category:Male golfers are well-defined categories as are Category:men's basketball players and Category:women's basketball players.--User:Namiba 13:37, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

We aren't talking about categories, we are talking about how the lead should read. We also have categories for Category:American male writers and Category:American women writers but you'd never feel the need to refer to them as such in the lead, it is obvious by the pronouns and context. The other thing I will say is that the rules differences between men's and women's basketball aren't significant enough to constitute a totally different sport. For example, a male professional who plays in a pro league with NBA rules and also their national team under FIBA rules (widened lane, different goaltending rules) is still playing the same sport in both instances. If, say, the Danish League decided they wanted to institute the Elam Ending instead of traditional overtimes I wouldn't change the lead for a men's player to read "an American Danish basketball player," because he is still playing the same sport. Rikster2 (talk) 14:42, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

Personally I don't think we should refer to women's basketball players, they are simply basketball players. As for categorization, that is a different matter. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 17:44, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Edit dispute at List of basketball players who have scored 100 points in a single game

Would like this project's input on the article's talk page please. 71.56.244.35 (talk) 02:02, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Does anyone have a Eurobasket account?

Andrew Hayles' professional career needs a lot of fleshing out, and here is his Eurobasket profile. I don't have a sub though! SportsGuy789 (talk) 06:07, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

User:DaHuzyBru. Rikster2 (talk) 12:21, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Page updated and expanded. Requires more refs for college info, but I'll leave that for someone else. DaHuzyBru (talk) 14:23, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Category:Basketball players from New York City

Category:Basketball players from New York City was created today. In the past we have had CfD discussions not to have city-specific "basketball players" categories (except Washington DC which essentially functions as a state). Just wanted to pulse the project to see if there is still an aversion to these categories. Rikster2 (talk) 18:20, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

Past discussion here. Rikster2 (talk) 18:20, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

Category:Basketball players by city or town in the United States has been nominated for discussion

Category:Basketball players by city or town in the United States has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. SportsGuy789 (talk) 20:16, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

Afd Discussion about List of basketball players who died during their careers

All - There is an Articles for deletion discussion about List of basketball players who died during their careers amongst others at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of American football players who died during their careers. Please feel free to join in if you are so inclined. Alvaldi (talk) 22:22, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

WikiConference North America

Hey all! I am planning on having a WikiConference North America sports panel December 12 3:00 EST. This is something that has never been done before and there are many sports which are "native" to North America and part of the America identity. What it seems to be is that we (you, me, and other members of WikiSports) will be in a Zoom (or other video conferencing app) to discuss our experiences in editing sports on Wikipedia. These can range from combating vandalism to how to best get permission to use sports photos. The organizers of WikiConference North America (WCNA) created an Etherpad surrounding planning which I will link here. if you Command F "sports" you will find the section. This will be the very first panel WCNA has ever had on sports so not much to go off of here.

Please ping me if you have questions as this page is not on my watchlist. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 20:46, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

Deshon Taylor birth year

There is a discussion at Talk:Deshon Taylor#Disputed birth date regarding a differing source that has emerged from an editing disagreement. Any input would be appreciated. CalDoesIt (talk) 12:49, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

{{ThreeLegStart}}

Is it common practice in Europe (or elsewhere for that matter), is to refer to best-of-x games as "1st leg" up to "7th leg" in English, or is it "Game 1" up to "Game 7" as what is done in North America? For example, in the 2019 ACB Playoffs, did Real Madrid win the title in "Game 4" or in the "4th leg"? Howard the Duck (talk) 17:54, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Naming convention for sports stadia

A request for comment is open regarding the use of parenthetical disambiguation in relation to articles on sports stadia here: Wikipedia talk:Article titles#RfC Naming convention for sports stadia. Input is welcome. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 20:28, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Field goal "percentage", free throw "percentage", three point "percentage"

The Template:NBA player statistics start gives the headings for three of the columns as "FG%" (field goal percentage), "3P%" (3-point percentage), and "FT%" (free throw percentage). However, almost all articles that use this template actually list the "percentages" as decimals on a 0-to-1 scale.

Check the article on Stephen Curry, one of the greatest shooters of all time. The free-throw "percentages" are given as 0.885, 0.934, 0.809, 0.900, etc. The articles on other basketball players are similar: LeBron James, Michael Jordan, and Kobe Bryant. The same is true for less well-known basketball players: see Cassius Stanley. Check any article on List of current NBA team rosters - the percentages are given as decimals. (I would have a hard time believing that Stephen Curry shoots less than 1% of his free throws.)

There are two options: change the headings to "field goal fraction" or "field goal decimal," etc. or rewrite all basketball career statistics to mention the percentage (out of 100), not the decimal (out of 1). The second option seems far more logical. - Crossover1370 (talk | contribs) 06:39, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Check out Field goal percentage for an explanation on this, and why the status quo should remain... Howard the Duck (talk) 06:47, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Checking major sources, basketball-reference.com gives the "percentages" as decimals. But some other sources such as Breakthrough Basketball and FiveThirtyEight give the "percentages" as proper percentages. - Crossover1370 (talk | contribs) 06:54, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

NBA.com and ESPN both give it in ##.#, with no percentage symbol, FWIW. Howard the Duck (talk) 06:56, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

If these percentages are given as ##.#, that is a proper percentage (0-100 scale), not a decimal (0-1 scale). Sorry, but basketball-reference.com does not have a monopoly on basketball player statistics. A percentage is a percentage, period. - Crossover1370 (talk | contribs) 07:21, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

One could argue a percentage is only a percentage if it is followed by "%", or it is understood to be one. I'm interested on how TV coverage shows this, though.

I'd also be interested on how other leagues outside the North America present this stat. Howard the Duck (talk) 07:38, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

FIBA, the worldwide governing body of basketball, gives field goal percentages as percentages (0-100) - see here. Basically, basketball-reference.com and Wikipedia stand alone in labeling decimals as percentages. - Crossover1370 (talk | contribs) 07:50, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

I really love how "FIBA, the worldwide governing body of basketball" sounds like, but FIBA is the weakest sports governing body there is among major sports that's played in more than 2 countries. Euroleague does do it percentages, but up to hundredths. [ACB https://www.acb.com/estadisticas-individuales/index/temporada_id/2020] does it ##,#, with no percentage sign. Howard the Duck (talk) 08:00, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

That's still a percentage. Under that system, if a player scored 90% of their free throws, his/her FT% would be recorded as 90.0. Under the current convention used on Wikipedia, his/her FT% would be 0.9.
Any such "percentage" in the format ##.# or ##,# (0-100 scale) is a percentage. Wikipedia uses .### (0-1 scale) which is a decimal. - Crossover1370 (talk | contribs) 08:07, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

It's much more varied than you can think. The Atlantic Coast Conference uses .###; the Southeastern Conference uses ##.#%; B1G uses .###. Pac-12 uses ##.#; Big 12 uses #.###. Whether it's a fraction, percentage, or whatever, it's how we'd be presenting it. Leagues use .### and label it as a percentage. ##.# and ##.#% are different, although context is important; I'd rather put the percentage sign in there to denote that it is a percentage if we'd be using "##.#" but apparently not everyone who uses "##.#" does that. Howard the Duck (talk) 08:10, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

The majority of leagues throughout the world (except for a few college leagues) use either ##.# or ##.#%, which is also much more straightforward when it is referred to as a percentage.
Right now, anyone looking up career statistics on Wikipedia is forced to use context to understand that the scale being used is 0-1, not 0-100 (percent). The current convention on Wikipedia implies that Stephen Curry shoots 0.9% of his free throws. - Crossover1370 (talk | contribs) 08:17, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm too lazy to check out every Division I conference, but the U.S. college basketball system is the most extensive on Earth. It's more extensive than the basketball league systems of some countries. I wouldn't discount that.

As what I said, I'd rather go on with a percent sign for every percentage (are the Atlanta Hawks winning 0.8% of their games?). Changing it to ##.# without the % sign in the end doesn't improve things, and only a number of leagues present it as "##.#%". Howard the Duck (talk) 08:27, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Even when labeling it as ##.#, the percent sign is already in the heading: "FG%," "FT%," "3P%." So it's already labeled as a percentage. - Crossover1370 (talk | contribs) 08:29, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Do these come with other statistics? If they do, I'd rather have these with the percent sign. Most reputable almanacs present percentages as having the percent symbol. It's not that hard to do. Howard the Duck (talk) 08:31, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Using ##.# would be similar to the format used on, say, List of U.S. states by area. Under the sq mi column, the land area of California is given as 155,779.22, not as "155,779.22 sq mi." The "sq mi" is unnecessary because the column is already labeled "sq mi." Same here.
If some object to this, label it ##.#%. That would be redundant since the column is already labeled %. But at least it would be better than the current convention - labeling a decimal as a percentage and completely misleading readers. - Crossover1370 (talk | contribs) 08:37, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

"Sq mi" is a unit. Percentage is a mathematical formula (just as parts per thousand). We don't want it to be as interpreted as "Stephen Curry makes 90 field goals per game." The insistence of ditching "%" is baffling; it doesn't solve your problem of it misleading readers.

FWIW, basketball stats are derived from baseball stats, where percentages are denoted as ".###". Howard the Duck (talk) 08:41, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Basketball and baseball are two completely different sports. I don't know what you mean when you say that basketball stats are "derived" from baseball stats.
They are also not comparable. A "free throw percentage" literally has "percentage" in the name. By contrast, a batting average is simply called a batting average, not a "percentage." (FYI, I know far more about basketball than I do about baseball.)
Let's not go off topic here. The current system used by Wikipedia (and some of the aforementioned college leagues) flies in the face of common logic and would be very confusing to someone who knows absolutely nothing about basketball. My proposal is in line with the majority of professional leagues in the US and the world. - Crossover1370 (talk | contribs) 08:44, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

What I'm trying to say is that basketball stats, the manner where they are presented, were ultimately derived from baseball ones. Even home teams in the NBA are listed last, in deference to baseball where the home team bats last (compare to elsewhere where home teams are listed first). Batting average isn't exactly an average but a percentage (hits divided by at bats, instead of the average number of hits a player made in time, again maybe Americans are just bad in math) the same way field goal percentages and on-base percentages are. Even winning percentages are in the ".###" format (some leagues outside the U.S. do show winning percentages as actual percentages). The fact that several American leagues still use ".###" nowadays is testament of that fact. Does that make them wrong? I'd agree for a change to "##.#%", but I won't be losing sleep as the statistic that really matters, winning percentage, still is in ".###". Like I said, American basketball system, down to high school, is the most extensive on earth. I won't be surprised if majority of basketball games in the world are still played in the U.S., and most of them use ".###" to denote FG%.

Another associated statistic on this is denoting how these are calculated. North American TV broadcasts still present FT% as 5–6 instead of 5/6 as how other countries do it, but here we are... Howard the Duck (talk) 08:57, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

There's a third option: keep the status quo. Percentage#Other_uses explains the use of decimals in sports. Plenty of sources show basketball "percentages" as decimals: The Washington Post, 2019–20 NBA Official NBA Guide (see p. 52 and on), UCLA. It's not Wikipedia's place to invent non-standard terms like "field goal fraction" or "field goal decimal". Given that decimals are already the de facto standard for NBA articles, I don't see the overall benefit to changing it to non-decimal now.—Bagumba (talk) 09:02, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

I wasn't seriously proposing the use of "field goal fraction/decimal." In the first post I wrote "the second option [changing decimals to percentages] seems far more logical." As for American high school basketball, MaxPreps gives field goal percentages on a 0-100 scale. Among colleges and universities, College of the Canyons uses a 0-100 scale, and the NCAA's official website uses the form ##.## in the FG% column. Ballislife.com uses percentages as well.- Crossover1370 (talk | contribs) 19:19, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

When careers are marked “over”

I’ve recently been reverting a number of IP edits where a player who was last active at the end of the 2018-19 season is being marked with a career end of “2019.” Just want to put out there that without a clear retirement announcement the typical practice has been to wait two or more full seasons before calling a player “done.” This is because it’s not unusual for a player to miss a full season due to injury or other reason and it is also not unusual for a player to catch on in-season. I think we need to keep this general rule in mind particularly with the interruptions and peculiarity of the 2019–20 and 2020–21 seasons due to COVID. Rikster2 (talk) 12:58, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

I completely agree that we need to hold off unless there is a clear announcement. From what it looks like (example: Americans playing pro basketball overseas fear economic fallout from coronavirus), Covid has left a lot of overseas teams in a position where they either can't afford import players or are holding off on signing imports until they have a clearer financial outlook. There are a lot of players who are simply still looking for their next team. Best, GPL93 (talk) 16:31, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

League name convention

Is there a convention for edits like this that change leagues like "Basketball Bundesliga" to be instead be piped generically as "German League"?

I don’t think it’s ever been explicitly spelled out but to me “German League” and the like sound incredibly US-centric. We should use the actual league names (just like “NBA”) and in my opinion we need to add this to the style guide (assuming there is a consensus for this). Rikster2 (talk) 11:02, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

I've seen people write "Germany's Basketball Bundesliga" in prose, but just writing plain "German League" was new to me.—Bagumba (talk) 12:56, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Agreed, noting the country in prose is helpful for readers, but not in place of the league name. If it’s clarified in the prose it doesn’t need to be “simplified” in the infobox. Forget the fact that most European countries have more than one league. How to know if the infobox is referring to the Bundesliga as opposed to ProA? Rikster2 (talk) 13:02, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Denoting that the Basketball Bundesliga as the "Germany's" or "Germany's first division, the Basketball Bundesliga" may help with context, but just calling it the "German League" is incredibly US-centric, as pointed out by Rikster2. It is also way too vague given that ProA has more import players and players that pass WP:GNG and WP:NHOOPS than a lot of other second division leagues in Europe. Best, GPL93 (talk) 18:38, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Half court

Half court is in pretty terrible shape, IMO. Any project members care to make a few improvements? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 05:31, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Template:Infobox basketball biography width

FYI

There is a discussion at Template talk:Infobox basketball biography#Infobox bodystyle regarding the width of the infobox.—Bagumba (talk) 09:12, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Edit request

Hi,

I've been asked by the East Asia Super League to see if the organisation's Wikipedia page can be updated. I have never done this before, and understand that as part of the company, updating it myself would be a conflict of interest. If anyone could give me some advice, or help on doing this it would be much appreciated. Many thanks,

199.172.211.220 (talk) 00:03, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

I left some introductory pointers on your talk page at User talk:199.172.211.220.—Bagumba (talk) 09:15, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Appropriate amount of owners listed in infobox

I would like to establish a consensus on the appropriate amount of team owners listed in the infobox. There is an edit war taking place at Melbourne United, with an IP consistently reverting attempts to quell a very long list of owners that they cited from melbourneutd.com.au. DI2000 soundly noted a few days ago: Way too many names, until something is agreed upon we can just use the main owner that other news outlets use [2]. Does anyone have thoughts on this matter? Does anyone else agree 15 names is too many? Thanks. DaHuzyBru (talk) 12:31, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

@DaHuzyBru: We have a similar arrangement at Milwaukee Bucks where were list key people only. For a complete list of owners we have a separate section at Milwaukee Bucks#Ownership. – Sabbatino (talk) 13:14, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Is there an ownership group name? That may be a compromise. Rikster2 (talk) 15:23, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Category:Basketball families

Hello, Basketball fans,

I came across this empty category that is part of a larger category of families who have several members who play a professional sport (Category:Sports families by sport). I've added a few appropriate basketball players but I'm sure editors here will know of more who could be added. Thanks. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 19:52, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

Kobe Bryant (in italian)

excuse me if I write in italian, my english is horrible..

la città di Reggio Emilia ha dedicato a lui e alla figlia un largo (sarebbe una specie di piazza), la fonte è qui, in italiano, se volete inserire il fatto nella sua voce.. il motivo per cui l'abbiamo fatto è semplice, per noi italiani era uno di noi. --2.226.12.134 (talk) 08:16, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

"National Basketball Association" at Wiktionary

FYI wikt:en:National Basketball Association has been nominated for deletion; see wikt:en:Wiktionary:Requests for deletion/English -- 65.93.183.33 (talk) 12:53, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

Tully Bevilaqua

there is a little problem, the source doesn't explain if she is legally married or not, ok, it will be true but currentlu there isn't a good source.. --2.226.12.134 (talk) 21:48, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

another little problem, the surname originally was Bevilacqua, if her wife has italian origins: if Ellis Island didn't changed it there is an error.. --2.226.12.134 (talk) 21:51, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Discussion on categories concerning sportspeople by performance

There is a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Overcategorization#Sportspeople by event to increase the wording of WP:PERFCAT to include sportspeople by event (examples include Category:FIFA World Cup-winning players and Category:Summer Olympics medalists by year). If anyone has an interest in the discussion it can be found at the link above. Rikster2 (talk) 20:42, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Request for Comment on SSN at WP:Notability (sports)

There is a discussion on SSN (sport specific guidelines) at RFC on Notability (sports) policy and reliability issues. Feel free to go there and post your comments. Cassiopeia^(talk) 00:53, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

Kai Sotto and NBA G League Ignite?

Should Ignite be mentioned in Kai Sotto's infobox if he didn't play a single game with them? A counterpoint is that he was still part of the team, and Ignite was only supposed to play exhibition games against other G League teams until they were given the opportunity to compete in the 2021 G League bubble.Hariboneagle927 (talk) 17:07, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

We typically only list a team in the infobox if they played a regular season game with them. The details can be put in prose, as it already is.—Bagumba (talk) 17:26, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

Proposed change in sports notability policy

A proposal is pending that would prohibit the creation of sports biographies unless supported by "substantial coverage in at least one non-routine source". In other words, articles supported solely by statistical databases would not be permitted, and at least one example of WP:SIGCOV would be required to be included before an article could be created. If you have views on this proposal, one way or the other, you can express those views at Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports)#Fram's revised proposal. Cbl62 (talk) 18:54, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Barnstar

Per request, I made the Basketball Barnstar. Jerm (talk) 17:22, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

FAR notice

I have nominated Toronto Raptors for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Hog Farm _Talk 05:24, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Notability

Is a basketball player who has played for a national team, but not in the Olympics, and who is not otherwise notable - notable just for playing for the national team? Thanks. --2603:7000:2143:8500:3D5C:5D3E:D262:721F (talk) 04:44, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

No. they could be notable by meeting the standard for WP:GNG though - and many do. Rikster2 (talk) 04:52, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Also check out the special notability criteria for basketball players. Crossover1370 (talk | contribs) 21:55, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Locke Olson

A few months ago I created a draft for Locke Olson, who competed as part of the gold medal-winning American team at the 1955 Pan American Games. I wasn't able to find sourcing for GNG, but I'd appreciate a second look from someone as to whether he meets WP:NBBALL or whether there are potential sources I'm missing. Thanks, {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 21:10, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Anyone, or is this a dead project? {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 23:31, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/2019_Serbia_FIBA_Basketball_World_Cup_team

Please weigh in at Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/2019_Serbia_FIBA_Basketball_World_Cup_team.--User:Namiba 18:08, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Assistant coach medals

I thought I read somewhere that coach's don't get medals for national team events. Head coaches aside, it seems like clutter to add medals for assistant coaches e.g. Mike D'Antoni. Is this worth keeping for assistants?—Bagumba (talk) 08:57, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

• As far as I can see the coaching staff of the Spanish 2019 World Champions all have medals around their neck on this picture. I don't see any reason to change it. Alvaldi (talk) 09:44, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
  • OK. Maybe it's only the Olympics that doesn't give to coaches.—Bagumba (talk) 09:53, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Leading a team to a medal is a coaching achievement whether the person gets a physical medal or not (and in the Olympics coaches don’t get medals). That said, I am personally of the opinion that assistant coach honors shouldn’t be in the infobox anyway. That majority of the credit (or blame) has always gone to the head coach. Rikster2 (talk) 10:48, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Article Rename request you may be interested in

There is currently a RM at Talk:Mohamed Bamba#Requested move 18 May 2021 seeking consensus to rename article from Mohamed Bamba to Mo Bamba RedPatch (talk) 13:20, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Random height changes

Currently, there are some IP users who are randomly adjusting the heights of basketball players without including an edit summary or citing sources:

• 2603:8001:3802:AE67:D8DE:450F:2732:74D5
• 174.88.88.210

The height-adjusting edits date back a long time, with 172.251.85.239, 174.252.192.44, 75.38.152.77, and possibly others. Is this a pattern of vandalism from different editors, or sockpuppetry? If it is sockpuppetry, is there an SPI? Crossover1370 (talk | contribs) 00:16, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

It's a common type of vandalism. If the IPs geolocate to a similar location, one might suspect it's the same person. WP:RANGE blocks are sometimes possible if a pattern develops.—Bagumba (talk) 01:06, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Caleb Houstan

An editor who is connected to the subject keeps adding the player's middle school at Caleb Houstan. – Sabbatino (talk) 19:01, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Unnecessary for the lead. The middle school can be stated in the high school career section: "After graduating from David Leader Middle School..." or omitted entirely. Crossover1370 (talk | contribs) 23:49, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

I've warned them that it at least needs to be sourced. It's another issue whether it's even relevant.—Bagumba (talk) 04:59, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

hey man! wassup ive changed it, please do not change it because it means alot to him, \ thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Corey overtime (talk • contribs) 14:15, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

It doesn't matter if it means a lot to him. Usually, the middle school that someone attended is not relevant. Can you cite a reliable source to prove that he attended David Leader Middle School and that it is somehow notable? I have also reported you at WP:AIV because you have continued to make such edits even after having been warned on your talk page. Crossover1370 (talk | contribs) 19:10, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

New parameter at Template:Infobox basketball biography

A new parameter has been added to {{Infobox basketball biography}} without any discussion. I have started a discussion at Template talk:Infobox basketball biography#Parameter for birth name regarding the matter. – Sabbatino (talk) 20:45, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Conflict with listed club and actual club

Hello, there seemed to be an edit war at Philippines men's national basketball team regarding Kai Sotto's listed club in the 2021 FIBA Asia Cup qualifier roster. The problem is Sotto is listed by FIBA to be still with NBA G League Ignite (actually his listed team is just "NBA G League") but he hasnt even play a single game with Ignite and has left the club months ago. He is now actually with the Adelaide 36ers since April. This is not like listed height which is understood to have small discrepancies with the actual height. Should we follow the FIBA listing (which is blatantly erroneous) or the actual current club.Hariboneagle927 (talk) 14:11, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

If consensus determines that information from a source is inaccurate, we typically don't include that information. Sources, even ones that are generally reliable, can make errors.—Bagumba (talk) 01:01, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Eurobasket.com awards in infobox

A lot of basketball articles are getting edited with Eurobasket.com awards in the infoboxes. Since that is just a website which has no affiliation with any leagues, and none of their awards are league awards, should those be added in the infoboxes like they are being? It seems to me that awards just from websites would not be added to infoboxes unless they were an important award that the website is known for giving, like Sporting News player of the year and stuff like that. But things like All-Spanish League Domestic Players Team from Eurobasket.com is in no way a real award or has any significance whatsoever. I think it's fine to list such things in the article body or in an honors section, but that should also note it's from eurobaeket's website and not a real league award. Because it is confusing to the vast majority of readers if they see something listed like All-Italian League Center of the Year and they probably think that's a real award, which it isn't. Thoughts on this?Bluesangrel (talk) 19:28, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

• They should neither be in the infobox or in the article body as they are non-notable awards selected by some random Eurobasket.com editors. Alvaldi (talk) 22:21, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
• No more than any other unofficial site or publication. Not notable. Rikster2 (talk) 22:55, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
• There would need to be independent sources covering the awards.—Bagumba (talk) 00:54, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
• That's what I figured.Bluesangrel (talk) 13:45, 17 June 2021 (UTC)Bluesangrel (talk)

Kevin durant manager and partner

--Rich Kleiman -- Need help with getting this draft approved and edited. he is notable and well known. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Rich_Kleiman_(1) 38.140.253.170 (talk) 21:07, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

The draft has been converted into an article (Rich Kleiman). Crossover1370 (talk | contribs) 19:48, 18 June 2021 (UTC)