User talk:Shirt58/Archive 4

DYK nomination of Myer Rosenblum

Hello! Your submission of Myer Rosenblum at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 22:18, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I read your notice on my talk page. I read the article a few times and think he's not notable for Wikipedia. (His notability, by the way, should be summarized in the lead — even in one line — and all the rest of his biography should be placed in subsequent sections.) He sounds like a well-rounded guy with his finger in many pies, worthy of an obituary in the Sydney Morning Herald. But the only thing that makes him special is his diversity. With all due respect, I would propose it for deletion. Yoninah (talk) 20:25, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Myer Rosenblum

— Rlevse • Talk • 00:02, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Re: Jon Elia again

Thank you for the heads up about the article. I am not very active at Wikipedia that's why I did not answer before. Today I logged in after many months to remove an obvious vandalism and got your message.

The Urdu text that has been added to the article is Jon Elia's poetry. I can personally confirm that. I think it is from his first book, but I'll have to double-check that. The editor has put his poetry in the article in a way in which the location of this poetry in the article is very crucial. The piece of poetry from the subject's own work is an ironic reference to things mentioned in the lines just above Urdu text. This comes from the traditional style of Urdu essay writing. Urdu prose is often peppered with subtle poetic references which culminate at the inclusion of complete verses relevant to the topic being discussed. The editor who added this poetry is obviously fond of Urdu literature.

Is it appropriate to do so based on Wikipedia's policies, practices and traditions? Or is it necessary to translate this Urdu text? This is for the Admins to decide. I'll try and add the references these verses if other's like to keep them for good. Translating poetry is often a difficult feat and usually results in unimpressive results as the translation looses the spirit and rhythm of actual work.

Szhaider (talk) 20:08, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Please be careful

How could this be considered an unreferenced BLP? Please be more careful in future. The-Pope (talk) 15:28, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, it could easily be considered an unreferenced BLP... by someone who was obviously not thinking straight at the time. Oops! (I think I was in a rush to get stuff done before the relocation). Thanks for the message - most appreciated. --Shirt58 (talk) 08:22, 8 September 2010 (UTC) ps: unfortunately looks like the Purple People might be the ones being eaten at the G this Friday...

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Prodding BLPs

Hello, Shirt, and thanks for your note! Glad to know there are other people going through the backlog of unreferenced BLPs. I rescue some and prod others; there are all kinds of people in that backlog, from the obviously notable (cabinet secretaries) to the non-notable (vanity authors). You're right, it is interesting. I have "met" some real characters in that backlog!

Feel free to remove the prod from Denise Lutgens, and add a reference if you have one. I didn't find any references in a quick search but she certainly sounded like she could be notable if verification could be found. The article could use some cleaning up as well; at the very least it needs a proper lead sentence saying who/what she is (a Dutch pianist) and why she is notable. Something else to look out for in that article, now that I look at it: the line at the end saying she "now" attends that Gymnasium. I suspect that information is out of date (one of the reasons we are not supposed to use words like "now", "soon", etc.).

About that message you got, "Article was created before March 18, 2010, and is thus ineligible for a BLP PROD": I have been prodding older BLPs left and right and never got any such message. But I just looked it up at Wikipedia:Proposed deletion of biographies of living people and here's the deal. It appears that there is a different rule and different tag for prodding more recent BLPs (since March 18, 2010). For those recent ones, they use a prod tag that CAN'T be removed unless a reliable source is added. That method is tagged using { { subst:prod blp } } . For earlier unsourced BLPs, I'm guessing we are supposed to simply use the generic { { subst:prod } } instead of { { subst:prod blp } }. That's what I do; I have never used the blp tag. Try the plain prod tag and see if that works. --MelanieN (talk) 15:34, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

I see that you did remove the prod from Denise Lutgens - but then you nominated her for deletion. I don't understand why you did that, since I though you were saying (on my talk page) that she was notable. In any case you should provide a comment at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Denise Lutgens to explain why you think the article should be deleted. Thanks. ----MelanieN (talk) 13:38, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Sincere aplogies, MelanieN. Yes, I broke that undertaking (in the quasi-legal sense) I made to you. In my own defence, I would argue that in this context, WP:AfD-ing is a better due process than PRODing. Again, my apologies. Lets work this out like WP:Wikipedians, hey? --Shirt58 (talk) 14:53, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Hey, no problem. I was just puzzled, that's all. Now I understand your reasoning. It looks like a clear consensus for "delete" is developing, and that's fine with me - since I prodded it to begin with, I have no particular interest in seeing the article kept! --MelanieN (talk) 00:34, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

OZ - online game

Hi Shirt, just curious to know why you deleted this as advertising [1]. AFAICS, it's a game port. We have an enquiry over at WP:EAR. Cheers, --Kudpung (talk) 09:09, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Stark Weather

Thanks for the note - I don't think it's bad enough to warrant a "Speedy deletion", but I know little about rock music or the appropriate notability guidelines. Perhaps its should go to AfD, together with the article on The Outskirts to get a proper opinion from those who know about these things. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 11:33, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your speedy reply! I completly agree. I was wrong about Sky Eats Airplane; AfD would seem the best place to go. To that end, I'll tag the article for notability for the now.--Shirt58 (talk) 11:47, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Prolific

I don't know... I see it's rather silly define here a writer "prolific", and I think fundamentally looks like a case of WP:Weasel word. Where's the point? Where's the encyclopedical information we give by that? I think the reader can decide by himself if one is prolific or not looking at its bibliography. Anyway, let me know... It's not such a matter. Good work!! --'''Attilios''' (talk) 11:58, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

AfD for Osnat Shurer

Hi all,
Twinkle appears to have misfired - it's added the {{AfDM|page=Osnat Shurer|year=2010|month=September|day=23|substed=yes|help=off}} template to the article, but there is no corresponding addition to the 23 Sep 2010 AfD log. {{helpme}} I don't want to create a possible duplicate AfD, and I wouldn't have a clue how to fix the wikicode in the AfD log.
Thank you! --Shirt58 (talk) 12:03, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

I'll fix it. JohnCD (talk) 12:37, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Actually, adding the template to the article is all that Twinkle seems to have done - it has not created the actual AfD page either. So I have removed the template from the article, and you are back to Square One - try again. If you have a problem, post again here. Regards, JohnCD (talk) 12:43, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks indeed for the help - most appreciated, JohnCD. A fellow Unreferenced BLPs backlog gnome (hope you don't me calling you that, User:J04n) has added a reference, so I'm happy not to AfD the article. Thanks again! --Shirt58 (talk) 10:57, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Eugene "Sdwig" Zvidionny

Hi Shirt58, I've declined your sticky prod for Eugene "Sdwig" Zvidionny because the article was written before the March 18 2010 cutoff. In fact it goes back to 2005, when rules about sourcing were much laxer. If you can't find references for him then you could still take it to AFD, though I suspect if you can translate from the Russian there'll be plenty of sources available. ?ereSpielChequers 23:41, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

DLP

Where to begin? This is pretty basic knowledge for those in political history - The Age has made the mistake of confusing the year the last DLP members left the Senate (1974) with the last time they were elected (1970). Given that this is a basic fact and covered extensively in Wikipedia (Australian Senate election, 1970, Australian federal election, 1974, Vince Gair, Members of the Australian Senate, 1971–1974 and elsewhere), I considered that this didn't really need a cite. If you feel there is a need, though, by all means go ahead. Another reason for leaving it is finding an ideal cite, though - you can clearly see in many places that in 1974 no DLP Senators were elected, while in 1970 (the Senate election immediately previous) they were. With the corresponding link to the 1970 election, I find a cite somewhat redundant, but as I said, I'm not really fussed about it. Frickeg (talk) 09:16, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Well done on Fairfax! You're right, it's been far too long. I'll try to hunt out some information next time I'm in easy reach of resources. Frickeg (talk) 11:05, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

(No apology was due - you were more than civil! You were also well within your rights to question my actions in that instance.) Frickeg (talk) 13:02, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Labor split

This subject is well overdue for an article (also the previous splits in 1916 and 1931), so I'm glad you've done it! I think you've made a great start. On titles, I think Australian Labor Party split, 1955 is probably best; I'm also not sure about calling it the "Labor Split" in the lead, since there have been three major ones and quite a few little ones. The statement that Santamaria and Mannix felt that Hitler was better than Stalin is quite controversial and will certainly need a dedicate citation. There's also a new book out dedicated to the split that might be helpful (I can't recall it's title right now, but I'll check next time at my library). On the suggested subtitles:

• The Queensland split definitely requires its own section, but it should be made clear that the Queensland Labor Party was a separate entity from the DLP and was not even formally affiliated.
• Again, possibly speaking in ignorance here, but is Petrov directly relevant to the split? I know it furthered the tensions between the two emerging factions, but I'm not sure if it warrants its own subsection.

Otherwise, looking great and I'm looking forward to seeing this article grow! I'll try to help out with some sources and things when I'm back within reach of them (later this week). Frickeg (talk) 13:00, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Nomination of Two Solitudes (Canadian society) for deletion

A discussion has begun about whether the article Two Solitudes (Canadian society), which you created or to which you contributed, should be deleted. While contributions are welcome, an article may be deleted if it is inconsistent with Wikipedia policies and guidelines for inclusion, explained in the deletion policy.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Two Solitudes (Canadian society) until a consensus is reached, and you are welcome to contribute to the discussion.

You may edit the article during the discussion, including to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Shirt58 (talk) 09:22, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

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Hello, Shirt58. You have new messages at 69.181.249.92's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Ukrainian Saamis

Hi, you reverted my edit on the Saami page about the Ukrainian Saamis. While I agree that deleting data because it is "wrong" is not proper conduct, I am also struggling to think of any possible reason for the information to be there in the first place. One hundred and thirty six people does not make a notable piece of information make, especially when the data was last current before Wikipedia itself existed. Besides which, the information was not referred to at any point in the article, and I cannot conceive of a situation where my deleting said data could possibly inconvenience a reader. I will not get into an edit war, but I hope you can at least see my points - I edited the article in the honest belief that I was in no way lowering the quality or useful information of the page, and I stand by this opinion. --160.5.228.48 (talk) 12:38, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Hello, Shirt58. You have new messages at Vrenator's talk page.
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About the Suzuki's text

Dear user Shirt58: I think you are right and I should have specified a particular reason in the edit summary or somewhere for removing content from the article. But I wouldn't go all the way to call it a vandalism for it is written in a different language. That link does not belong to Mr. Suzuki's text. Someone made a short article about Ei-ichi Negishi in the Persian wiki but mistakenly made all the links to Akira Suzuki which has no article in the Persian Wikipedia yet (it is written from right to left and the left edit is the newer). So I had to remove it from Suzuki's links and add it to Negishi's and it was a right thing to do. Users (global) contributions show if they are vandalists or not. Apparently it caused a small misunderstanding but it is OK now and I hope we are back on track again. Thank you. Damaavand (talk) 09:57, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Shirt58. You have new messages at Seb az86556's talk page.
Message added 02:15, 15 October 2010 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Reply

Yes, I'd love to :) I also have some sources (although less specialised). I agree with you about the importance of the topic - it's kind of surprising in a way that it hadn't had an article all this time.

What I've always found most odd about the 1955 split was that although it had major impacts with the creation of a conservative "balance of power" federally, it only seriously split the Labor Party in one state - Victoria - and had almost negligible impact in Tasmania and WA where Labor were at that time in government (the WA Labor Party were dominated by economically left wing, socially conservative Catholics so there was no obvious point to split on, and I suspect the same was true in Tasmania.) Queensland was its own weird case where long-running tensions over whether the Premier or Trades Hall should lead the party split it in two. The national splits were always weird - the 1916-17 split completely bypassed Tasmania while the split in WA was not even over conscription.

One other odd thing while it occurs to me, is that the two splits, while damaging in the short and medium term to the ALP's prospects, made it into a more unified party. At each stage, they lost conservative, right-wing elements who had drifted into the ALP through unionism rather than ideological sympathy. In Victoria the size of the split drove the remainder of the ALP so far to the left that the Federal party had to take it over in 1970 to make them electable nationally. Orderinchaos 15:59, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Imperial Block

Hi, Shirt! You asked me whether the mention of the National Register of Historic Places made this building into an automatic "keep," and suggested you might withdraw the nomination if that was the case. I don't think you need to do that. I posted the following comment at the AfD discussion:

Comment I have seen other users say that anything on the National Register of Historic Places is automatically notable, but I can't find a WP guideline that says so. Even if that is policy it might not apply here, since the Imperial Block is not a standalone listing on the National Register; it is one of the buildings that make up the Butte Historic District. So I would say this is a judgment call whether the building is notable or not, and should be based on the sources - only one of which is its inclusion in the Butte Historic District. I couldn't find any source describing what the building is used for now; that might be relevant. --MelanieN (talk) 17:39, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

"Rescued" to a redirect? 0;-D I don't think I'll give myself credit for a rescue on this one (although I do pride myself on my rescues). About schools, at least that consensus is written down somewhere, at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Common outcomes#Education. The "National Register" tradition makes perfect sense to me, but offhand I couldn't find it in writing anywhere. I think I'll continue to use it, however! --MelanieN (talk) 15:20, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search Contents [hide] 1 Hi 2 Ref desk - writing quote found 3 Thanks. 4 Plymouth 5 Tolmers Scout Camp 6 news 7 Elizabeth II's descent from Brian Boru 8 Colonel Grantham discussion 9 Les Parisoises 10 More on crickets! 11 Awesome 12 Gogmagog 13 Indenting 14 WP:IAMNOTASCOTSMAN

[edit] Hi Hi, thanks for your answer on the Reference desk, but who are you? Why don't you have a user page? The Great Cucumber (talk) 20:25, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Ref desk - writing quote found I feel a little lazy hearing how you found the quote I was searching for ... I must have a low frustration tolerance. Thanks again, nonetheless!

If you have the inclination to acquaint yourself with Dillard, I think you're in for a treat. Especially Pilgrim at Tinker Creek, Teaching a stone to talk, or her autobiography, An American Childhood. 198.161.238.18 (talk) 16:43, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks. Cheers for the swift and accurate reply re the Faroe Isles. I thought no-one else knew they existed ! Really strange about the Danes paying for the tunnels too, I never knew that.

[edit] Plymouth Thanks for writing more detail about Plymouth's history. I think the history section is now as big and detailed as it should get. We have a history of Plymouth article for extra details. The article is currently a "good article", which means its reliability needs to be maintained. In my opinion, citing Plymouth Data is fine. I checked up about that ages ago on Wikipedia and other users said that other sources should be used, if available i.e. historical books, but that otherwise Plymouth Data is "okay". Cyber-heritage, however, is not reliable. Do you have any other sources you could use for that one? Jolly O Janner 19:19, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Tolmers Scout Camp An article that you created, Tolmers Scout Camp has been proposed for merging into the region article Scouting in East of England. I did not make this proposal, but I found a meregto tag on the article, and agreed with it, so I am doing the work on it. I have added the mergefrom to the target article, adviced the Scouting Project and now you, and will add justification for the merge soon to Talk:Scouting in East of England. Please comment there when I have done so. --Bduke (Discussion) 02:02, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

[edit] news [show]The WORCESTERSHIRE Project Newsletter - March 2010 The WikiProject WORCESTERSHIRE Newsletter No. 2 - March 2010 (Archived here.)

Morgan car factory main entrance, Malvern Link, Worcestershire Welcome to the second WikiProject Worcestershire newsletter You are probably receiving this because you have significantly contributed to one of our pages. If you are not yet a participant in the Worcestershire project, now is the time to consider joining - it might help you get some assistance on a page you feel particularly attached to. Here goes for the second irregular news bulletin...

First GA in 2010 We finally got over our euphoria over the Malvern, Worcestershire promotion to Good Article status. The GA sets a benchmark for the quality to be targeted for other articles in the project, and clearly demonstrated how important teamwork is.

Recently founded A lot of work has already been done since the Worcs project was started, including the recent tagging of the talk pages of all the articles about people connected with Worcestershire, keeping spam and vandalism at bay, and welcoming new editors on their talk pages.

Experts needed! The Worcestershire project mainly concerns settlements. It's generally agreed that the immediate priority now is to improve the articles that shiould be the flagships of the project, namely Worcester, and Worcestershire which are some of the articles in the worst state.

Meet up Kudpung has booked his flight from Asia and will be back in Malvern from 1 April for a month, and looks forward to meeting up with as many Wikipedians as possible, especially those who work on the Worcs project.

NEWS Two major debates are raging on the 'pedia and we have been cautiously taking part.

WP:BLP (Biography of Living Persons) In for a shake up is an accumulation of nearly 50,000 totally unsourced articles that may end up on the cutting room floor after a period of grace. As a project, we can help by taking a look at those BLP in the county and doing what we can before the axe falls.

citations A war almost broke out over citation formats, but a mature approach from Worcs project members prevented any physical injury. There, are only three basic rules for citations: 1. All articles must have them. 2. Consitency of format throughout an articles. 3. Changes to the format require a consensus. We are not obliged to use citation templates, and WP:LDR might not be such a good idea while chunks of text and/or their references are being copied and pasted around related articles in the county. In any case, let's always discuss what we have in mind HERE.

new project pages The project main page has been pruned to be cleaner, and much of the support material has been transferred to dedicated pages. New usefull banners and templates have been created, and shortcuts to the new pages that also include a side bar navigator and a brand new easily edited To Do list.

new participant After all the hints getting him to join, we now welcome User:wotnow !

sysop (admin) Our only admin has resigned his tools. It would be great to have an active admin as a member of the project. If you think you would be able to cope with all the responsibility adminship involves, checkout WP:RfA and nominate yourself. Nobody needs to have a high edit count or to be an expert in all areas, but being active, having a reasonable overview of the workings of the Wikipedia, and a decent level of maturity, are expected minima. The process is not painless, and is worse than a British army promotion board! Alternatively you can always nominate another user.

---

Would you like to join the WP:WORCS?? Please enter yourself at WP:WORCS! - new editors are always welcome!

---

Happy Wikying, and thanks to everyone else who has contributed to our articles.

New project resources 

Before making any major edits to articles or stubs, please be sure to read the new WP:WORCS/HowTo. Urgent tasks are now listed at: WP:WORCS/ToDo. It should be referred to often, and will be your main stop for most maintenance tasks. We recommend keeping the page on your watchlist. Most project pages now have brand new side bar for easy navigation. (Thanks, GyroMagician). Priority Articles== The top priority articles have been identified as probably being:

Worcester • Worcestershire • Bromsgrove • Redditch • Kidderminster • Pershore • Malvern St James • Droitwich • tenbury Wells and the suite of former QinetiQ establlishments: * TRE • RSRE • DERA The number has been kept deliberately low to give us a fighting chance of improving them to at least GA status, so we can concentrate our efforts on these first. Priorities are not set in stone and if you would like to discuss changes, please join in at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Worcestershire.

Other priorities:

The recommended priority by kind is for creation/improvement of complete articles is: Places in the county Schools in the county (Particularly susceptible to vandalism - please keep them on your watch lists if possible). Transport in the county Notable buildings/objects/geo features/AONB/Heritage sites, etc. in the county History in the county Industry & Commerce in the county. People in the county - NOTE: These all need the Worcs project banner adding to their talk pages, and assessing. County related articles about things not actually in the county, and/or other related projects. These lists will help:

All Worcs related articles by ABC Worcs related articles by type. All Worcs related articles about people by ABC List of all Schools in Worcestershire List by Class & Importance: Page 1 All categories except people (not yet tagged with WP banner) List by Class & Importance: Page 2 All categories except people (not yet tagged with WP banner). New Aims Specific aims for the project are:-

Monitor The watchlist to keep an eye on changes to the project's articles so that vandalism and spamming can be removed as quickly as possible. Infoboxes Some of our articles need their infoboxes completing infobox. References Please remember that the list of stubs needing expansion is always in need of attention. Please take a look and see if you can help. One small edit, such as adding a reference section and reference, to an article each session would make a big difference. If you are uploadiing an image, be sure it has a correct FUR, and that you have preferably already created a link on the page where you want it to be. Moves, merges, and multiple edits Please be careful when performing articles moves and check if anyone seems to be in the middle of doing the same thing. If he; she, or they are, stop and have a chat about it. Otherwise you may be unintentionally duplicating or reverting each other's work. This is particularly important if an article is currently under a GA review. image may be deleted as it has an incorrect FUR. Guidelines How to write about settlements How to write about counties How to write about rivers How to write about people Get your article referenced now!

---

Imprint Written by User:Kudpung • All comments to WT:WORCS Based on an original concept by WP:YORKS

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[edit] Elizabeth II's descent from Brian Boru Hey it me from the question on the reference desk. You describe a line of descent for me between Brian Boru and Elizabeth II, but can you give me a full line with the names of every person in the generation. Just put it on Descent of Elizabeth II from William I; I'm trying to show all of Elizabeth II's connections to all the past monarchs in the British Isles, including Ireland. Thanks a lot.--Queen Elizabeth II's Little Spy (talk) 02:02, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Colonel Grantham discussion Hi, just to let you know I have copied and pasted our discussion to my talk page because I am going on holiday tomorrow, and the discussion at the reference desk will probably be archived before I get back. -- roleplayer 02:01, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Hello, Alansplodge. You have new messages at Roleplayer's talk page. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the or template. [edit] Les Parisoises Apropos your comment on "Nigeroise," Jacques Barzun, in one of his books, notes that Rouget de Lisle's song that became the French anthem was popularized by guys from Marseilles, but was in fact composed at the request of another city. Had things worked out differently, muses Barzun, the folks in Rick's American Cafe might have sung La Strasbourgeoisie. --- OtherDave (talk) 18:06, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

[edit] More on crickets! Thank you for your suggestions on crickets at refdesk! The article is now at Crickets as pets and needs some attention to grammar and flow.

Chirp! East of Borschov 08:31, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Awesome

 The Reference Desk Barnstar 

... for being the Master of Sleuths and unearthing Canada in khaki answering to The Call. Respectfully, ---Sluzzelin talk 21:47, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Gogmagog Hi, do you want to bluelink Gogmagog (folklore) with the material you added to the article on the band (now movoed to Gogmagog (band)? DuncanHill (talk) 20:41, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

No problem - until you mentioned him on the refdesk I'd never got around to reading what was behind the bluelink (he's mentioned in some other articles I've edited). Thanks for making the stub. DuncanHill (talk) 18:19, 1 October 2010 (UTC) [edit] Indenting Hi, I fixed my indenting here [1] and in the process also reduced your indenting by one level since it was no longer needed with my fix. Hope you don't mind Nil Einne (talk) 11:03, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

WP:IAMNOTASCOTSMAN

I thought it had the air of Groundskeeper Willie about it. I was born and bred in London but my mum is Scottish and grandma had an Glasgow accent that was unintelligable to most Englishmen. Alansplodge (talk) 13:44, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Template

I removed it because that template was added when I was in the process of editing it (it was saved uncompleted at that time). There is nothing I find objectionable in the article according to Wikipedia's policies. Yes, it does lack references, but HOW can you add references in an article simply stating a list? There's no need for references or citations in such list articles.

Re: Australian Labor Party split of 1955

Hi Shirt58, if you want to create a sandbox for that article, do it in your userspace, not in the main namespace. But I don't see too much of a problem with working on the article as it is now. Working on two pages at once would create attribution issues (i.e. in recording who actually wrote each piece of text). I don't know much about the subject; I only found the article while randomly reading about Daniel Mannix. However I'll be happy to help out with copyedits and things like that. Graham87 13:22, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

You might also find the template {{Template:Under construction}} useful. Graham87 13:35, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

MARA acronym dab page and original MARA page

Hi all,
Two government organisations, the Malaysian Majlis Amanah Rakyat and the Australian Migration Agents Registration Authority are commonly known by the acronym "MARA". As there is no article "MARA", I started a disambig page MARA (disambiguation), his would appear to be the correct things to do. Internal search for "MARA" still leads directly to Majlis Amanah Rakyat:

Majlis Amanah Rakyat
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(Redirected from MARA)

How do I catch the initial redirect? Or - and it's a very real possibility - am I completely wrong about this?
Thanks again! --Shirt58 (talk) 10:43, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

No, you are not completely wrong at all. However, all you needed to do was to rewrite MARA as a disambiguation page. It is much better not to name the disambig page MARA (disambiguation) if there is no other article called simply MARA, as "MARA" is what people are likely to search for, not "MARA (disambiguation)". I have moved the disambiguation page to MARA. JamesBWatson (talk) 11:28, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Hello, Shirt58. You have new messages at Philg88's talk page.
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National Bandy Teams

Hi, you nominated a lot of national bandy teams for deletion today, but it does appear as if the vast majority (if not all) of them meet notability requirements, and I have even begun to add references. I was wondering if you'd like to reconsider your nominations in light of the fact I have found sources. Redfarmer (talk) 13:07, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

"Sumit Khatri-The True Versatile Singer"

Yep... I don't think there's any bad faith there... just the user's first time on Wikipedia. I don't think he's been bitten too badly... he should figure it all out from the welcome message and notification templates. Catfish Jim & the soapdish 10:08, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

I would tend to leave it... but if it needs to be deleted, G6 would be most appropriate. I can't imagine anyone thinking it anything other than uncontroversial housekeeping. Catfish Jim & the soapdish 10:52, 31 October 2010 (UTC)