User talk:Nick Moyes/Archive 23

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Peace Dove

Peace is a state of balance and understanding in yourself and between others, where respect is gained by the acceptance of differences, tolerance persists, conflicts are resolved through dialog, peoples rights are respected and their voices are heard, and everyone is at their highest point of serenity without social tension. Happy Holidays to you and yours. ―Buster7 ☎ 14:21, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

Thank you, Buster7. May peace be with you, too. (PS: I think you forgot the closing 'center' command! I've added it here, but maybe you've forgotten it on a few other editors' pages, too?) Nick Moyes (talk) 14:59, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

Might want to double check

Hi Nick. You might want to double check this. You unintentionally "garbled" part of a previous post made by another editor. Probably better if you were to one to fix it since it seems fairly obvious that you didn't mean to do that. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:45, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

Thank you, Marchjuly. I've now fixed it. Please feel free to correct any obvious error I might make at the Teahouse, in future. The priority is not to confuse the reader. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 01:00, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

I didn't think it was necessarily confusing, just a typo of sort that you didn't intended to make. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:37, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

		The Barnstar of Diligence
		For all of your tireless work to make this website a better place, a more reader friendly source of information and for all your efforts to resolve and conflict resolution at various WIKIdrama at ANI. Shellwood (talk) 13:54, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Hey, Shellwood, that's very kind of you. Though actually I think you work a lot more tirelessly that I do! Have a really great New Year, my friend. Nick Moyes (talk) 14:29, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

note on your work

I admire your work. keep it up! happy new year!! --Sm8900 (talk) 19:57, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

On The Bright Side

Hi, it's me yet again. I thought you might be interested to know that I have started collaborating with Pine for On The Bright Side. Weekly threads are sent out on the mailing list; the first one that I helped contribute to was sent less than an hour ago! You're mentioned in the thread (with a link to your userpage) because I'm a graduate of your adoption program. Also, since it's the start of the last day of the year, happy new year! Clovermoss (talk) 06:20, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

@Clovermoss: yes, I saw as I was browsing through The Signpost that you'd offered to contribute. A good move on your part. I run a blog which has had quite a following, and it's quite rewarding to write in a different voice than that which we have to use here. Well done, and a Happy New Year! Nick Moyes (talk) 09:46, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia Books

Since you participated in the discussion on Wikipedia Books I herewith inform you that a decision has been taken.

See Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_176#Suppress_rendering_of_Template:Wikipedia_books Dirk Hünniger (talk) 20:28, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

User:Nick Moyes/Easier Referencing for Beginners

In your guidance to referencing for beginners, the second clause of the first sentence says I actually think it's one of the worst help page we have here, as it's so long and off-putting for beginners.. To make that sentence clearer, I recommend I actually think it's the worst help page we have here, as it's so long and off-putting for beginners. or I actually think it's one of the worst help pages we have here, as it's so long and off-putting for beginners.. Please let me know your thoughts on this. Interstellarity (talk) 17:51, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

It feels a bit like "spot the difference"! They all work for me (which do you prefer?) There's a lot more to tidy up elsewhere on that page, though it sounds like you're ok with much of it, thus far. Happy New Year! Nick Moyes (talk) 18:08, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

@Nick Moyes: I think you misunderstood my message. The statement in the page is not grammatically correct so you might benefit from fixing it to one of the two grammatically correct sentences in the original message. Interstellarity (talk) 20:13, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

Happy New Year to you as well!! Interstellarity (talk) 20:19, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

Jeez! Must have lain in the bath, staring at that text and my original for 20 minutes before I finally spotted what you were getting at. LOL. A perfect example of an author being totally unable to see their mistake because they know precisely what it 'says', and no amount of re-reading will let their brain actually see the error. i.e. I wrote 'page' when I should have said 'pages'. Doh! In seven days I think I hit the 10th anniversary of my first edit here; I don't seem to have improved much! Nick Moyes (talk) 22:05, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

Wears the soap?

A: Yes, it does, doesn't it! Nick Moyes (talk) 22:07, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

@Nick Moyes: We should all learn from our mistakes. It's a part of how we develop as an editor. I feel I have made Wikipedia a better place for our readers and our editors. Love the humor!! :-) Interstellarity (talk) 22:42, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

thanks

Thanks for the fix. That's an unusually wierd string of typos even for me. DGG ( talk ) 00:57, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

I've done the same; after the third bottle I really don't care, either! Nick Moyes (talk) 01:23, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

Happy New Year!

Happy New Year!

Hello Nick Moyes: Thanks for all of your contributions to Wikipedia, and have a great New Year! Cheers, Clovermoss (talk) 00:48, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year snowman}} to people's talk pages with a friendly message.

Image

Sorry for my earlier edit summary because obviously you must not be aware of the background, otherwise you would not add that image. A very-banned and very-LTA performed the world's greatest troll by paying Pricasso to use his usual implements (skim that article) to paint Jimbo, and then spent the next year putting the image on as many pages in as many Wikipedias as possible. The LTA hates Jimbo and the image is a great way to be super-offensive while confusing onlookers who don't know the background. That is why the original image is on the MediaWiki:Bad image list. Hopefully the cropped version won't need to be added to the blacklist. Johnuniq (talk) 09:39, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

@Johnuniq: Sorry for the delay in responding. I did actually draft a carefully worded reply the following day, but my tablet browser crashed and I lost it all. Only just got around to following up. You are quite right. I certainly had no idea of the backstory to this image, and was initially pretty annoyed with you for rereverting my edit as a troll. Then I was annoyed at myself for not knowing that Jimbo had taken unkindly to the image and all that went before. So me posting it on his own talk page I can see might not have gone down too well. I've also chosen to remove it from User:Nick Moyes/The Night Before Wikimas, as it's linked to from Wikipedia:Poems about Wikipedia. That said, it's actually a pretty competent portrait, and somewhat better than work by some more traditional mouth and foot artists we see. (eg [https: //www.thelondoneconomic.com/entertainment/mouth-foot-artist-captures-sunrise-in-colourful-painting-at-stonehenges-summer-solstice/21/06/ here] and here). I have no plans to reopen a discussion on this image, but I do sense that for all our forceful statements we make that Wikipedia and Wikimedia content is not censored, we could, as a community, be accused of leaning a tiny bit too far towards self-censorship (me included), and I was rather surprised that the [https: //commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jimmy_Wales_by_Pricasso_(cropped).jpg cropped image] wasn't deployed on the page for Pricasso despite, or even because of, the clever trolling. Anyway, thanks for dropping by on xmas morning to advise me of my little faux pas. Happy New Year to you! Nick Moyes (talk) 01:47, 3 January 2020 (UTC)      

Thanks. Yes, it's a difficult case, made all the more awkward by the fact that the artist is very talented. Johnuniq (talk) 02:21, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

TWW

If you know any editors who like writing and journalism please refer them to thewikiwizard as we are short on editors! Thanks! --Thegooduser Life Begins With a Smile :) 🍁 01:20, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

@Thegooduser: I think Clovermoss could be an ideal contributor. (You don't need old blokes, like me!) Did you see the discussion at Wikipedia:Editor Retention here) that I pinged you in to? There's mileage there to bring younger editors together, and also to tell us older folk how we need to deal with you younger 'whippersnappers'! HYN Nick Moyes (talk) 01:28, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

@Thegooduser: Have you been in touch with Smallbones of The Signpost? I'm sure they would be willing to support, promote and help your youth-orientated newsletter. Your enthusiasm as a young editor here is absolutely brilliant. I just don't feel that this particular 60+ year old is the right person to be contributing to something so fresh and youth-focussed. Nick Moyes (talk) 01:34, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

I'll give you a reply after, taking care of some vandals at simple english wikipedia.... --Thegooduser Life Begins With a Smile :) 🍁 01:46, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

@Thegooduser: Sorry for the late reply. I'm somewhat interested, but I don't think I can make that kind of commitment at the moment. I just started contributing to the Signpost and I'd like to get the hang of that first and continue making real life my priority before making any promises to help. If you contact me in a few months about this, I might be able to give you a different answer. I wish you the best of luck - I read the Wikiwizard and I appreciate the effort you put into it. Clovermoss (talk) 01:26, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

Clovermoss, Feel free to join when you're ready :) --Thegooduser Life Begins With a Smile :) 🍁 00:34, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

ANI comment

Hi, there are 2 independent proposals at ANI, you seem to have commented on the wrong thread. --DBigXrayᗙ 15:46, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

Oops - had an edit conflict when I first tried to post and was in a rush- will check again. Nick Moyes (talk) 15:47, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

Nick Moyes, thank you. And if it was me who caused the conflict, then consider my apology. regards. DBigXrayᗙ 15:56, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

No worries. You might have caused the edit conflict, but I was the careless one. Now fixed, and a further post added in the right place (hopefully). Nick Moyes (talk) 16:09, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – January 2020

News and updates for administrators from the past month (December 2019).

Administrator changes

Dreamy Jazz • Newslinger • Rosguill

Deor • Spartaz • Xeno

Angusmclellan • clpo13 • Edgar181 • Matthewedwards • NCurse

CheckUser changes

Bradv • Casliber • David Fuchs • Maxim • Newyorkbrad • SoWhy • Xeno

Oversight changes

Bradv • Casliber • DGG • David Fuchs • Maxim • Newyorkbrad • SoWhy • Xeno

Someguy1221

Guideline and policy news

• A request for comment asks whether partial blocks should be enabled on the English Wikipedia. If enabled, this functionality would allow administrators to block users from editing specific pages or namespaces, rather than the entire site.
• A proposal asks whether admins who don't use their tools for a significant period of time (e.g. five years) should have the toolset procedurally removed.
• Following a successful RfC, a whitelist is now available for users whose redirects will be autopatrolled by a bot, removing them from the new pages patrol queue. Admins can add such users to Wikipedia:New pages patrol/Redirect whitelist after a discussion following the guidelines at Wikipedia talk:New pages patrol/Redirect whitelist.

Arbitration

• The fourth case on Palestine-Israel articles was closed. The case consolidated all previous remedies under one heading, which should make them easier to understand, apply, and enforce. In particular, the distinction between "primary articles" and "related content" has been clarified, with the former being the entire set of articles whose topic relates to the Arab-Israeli conflict, broadly interpreted rather than reasonably construed.
• Following the 2019 Arbitration Committee elections, the following editors have been appointed to the Arbitration Committee: Beeblebrox, Bradv, Casliber, David Fuchs, DGG, KrakatoaKatie, Maxim, Newyorkbrad, SoWhy, Worm That Turned, Xeno.

Miscellaneous

• This issue marks three full years of the Admin newsletter. Thanks for reading!

---

• Discuss this newsletter
• Subscribe
• Archive

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:06, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi: I'm new to wikipedia editing, and am desperate for some human interaction. Would you like to adopt me?

This is a reply from Nick Moyes (talk page stalker): @Gaurarjun: You have posted on the page of another new user, like yourself. I think Clovermoss might have since asked you to be careful not to leave the 'adoptme' template on other people's pages - this is rather unhelpful for reasons that are a bit complex to explain to a newcomer, but it adds Maryanne Cunningham's name to the list of people seeking adoption, not yours! Asking another new user to adopt you is not what the template is for - in other words, I'm afraid it's not a way of flagging up that you want to make friends here, sorry. Please also read WP:NOTFORUM for an understanding on this. Of course, if you seek human interaction, you will find there are other social media platforms that are designed for that. We do expect and require editors, old or new, to appreciate that we are solely here to build an encyclopaedia, not as a means of social engagement. I don't know your age, but it's also inadvisable to solicit conversations off-wiki via WhatsApp etc. as I see you've done a bit. Please see WP:YOUNG for guidance and safety issues for young editors and their parents. We take the safety and privacy of young editors very seriously, and so it's best that all our business should really be conducted on wiki, and in an open manner. That said, there is a great community of editors here, and they'd love you to contribute to that in the spirit of information sharing and dissemination. In so doing, we all get human interaction with other encyclopaedia-builders. If we get stuck, the Teahouse is a great way to get help from other humans (yeah, I know: mostly men - sorry!) I'm now going to remove the 'adopt me' template you added, though Maryanne is totally free to re-add it to her Userpage if she so chooses. Best wishes, Nick Moyes (talk) 11:47, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the above, I had few questions on the same, if you have time that is, Would it be a terrible idea to consider speaking to me on WhatsApp rather than this texting back n forth.

--Gaurarjun (talk) 16:35, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

Haha, I read your full piece just now only, sorry for soliciting WhatsApp to you, hey, at least i removed that stupid 'adoptme' template, enjoy your tea party : )

--Gaurarjun (talk) 18:57, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

One request if you would like to consider, Would it be a terrible idea for you to consider removing your above comments from Maryanne's talk page, i removed it, but your friend Gråbergs came stalking there as well

--Gaurarjun (talk) 19:24, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

I'm actually very likely to question the protocol here, here's something for you >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMPSaZ4hxKk

--Gaurarjun (talk) 23:39, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

you see why i suggested WhatsApp, i could talk to you about this whole apology and friendly warning thing, but texting back n forth just doesn't do it, anyways enjoy something non-youtube : ) https://www.principles.com/principles-for-success/

--Gaurarjun (talk) 01:20, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

It just isn't going to happen, I'm afraid. I'd be willing to Skype/Whatsapp with one of my adoptees, if needed, but thus far in 10 year here have only done so twice - both times with WMF employees or researchers. (Please place your signature on the same line as your last sentence, not on a new line) 5 minutes in to the smug presentation I gave up the will to go on, sorry. No need to send any more links. Cheers, Nick Moyes (talk) 01:42, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

Great, how do i get in touch with those WMF employees or researchers you spoke with, i think the time has come to change the protocol around here : ) Gaurarjun (talk) 02:10, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

You don't - their involvement with me was not relevant to how English Wikipedia is operated in the way you mean. If you want to change the way things work, you would make a proposal at WP:VPP - but you stand a snowball's chance with what you propose. Please remember to sign in the right place (not on a new line) and to indent each reply (see WP:THREAD). Nick Moyes (talk) 02:16, 10 January 2020 (UTC).

You are right, i am going to face same inertia at wp:vpp as I am facing here with you, but come on, at a work project, not being able to use phone is completely dumb, it makes no sense that somehow that is completely acceptable in this wiki project, haha --Gaurarjun (talk) 02:33, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

If you and I want to collude on editing, then let's chat by telephone, as no-one else will hear us. We can ring our mates and get a private cabal going to influence certain articles we want to change. No - this isn't how we work. I agree that nuance and spontaneity are lost, but transparency and shared editing are the benefits. 6 millions articles later - we must be doing something right, and I know your wish would not be granted, sorry. Nick Moyes (talk) 02:42, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

I see plenty of cabal behaviour already on the site. All the people i speak to, nobody, not even one trusts wiki. 6 million articles are despite all this inertia, i easily see 60 million articles and much superior quality and far more depth as a result of better trust, cooperation and yes communication amongst us humans. It's not my wish, it's inevitable, it's only when you decide to break your inertia and embrace the opportunity that lies right in front of all of us. --Gaurarjun (talk) 02:51, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

Reciprocal assistance

Hi Nick,

I got here, and thanks to User:Gråbergs_Gråa_Sång (have I dont that right?) for informing me that 'Add topic' is also 'New section'. People have been very kind and there's lots I have to look through. On the roast chicken front, I'm afraid that if I went near a timer it would probably go backwards, and you'd be more likely to end up with a fully-squawking fowl than a delicious roast chickie (it might lay a few eggs, I suppose...)

Thanks again Maryanne Cunningham (talk) 20:14, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

Yep, the "ping" worked! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:24, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

Well done, Maryanne Cunningham - you've cracked it! And I even managed to set the chicken to be cooked for when I and the family got home this evening, so all is good with the world! I'm pleased to see you've also edited your main Userpage - it's a great place to collate stuff about editing Wikipedia. I also see you also asked Clovermoss (I won't ping her this time round) about the adoption template and deleting comments. It's all got a bit confusing, hasn't it? Firstly, you are certainly allowed to delete any post from your talk page - it's taken as a sign that you've read it - even formal warningscan be removed. Once the page gets full of lots of messages it's even possible to create an archive. You'd be surprised how useful that can become later on; but lets not run before we can walk. The one thing everyone does frown upon is if one editor changes or selectively deletes what another editor said on a talk page - that's called refactoring, and isn't OK. So yes, feel free to remove the entire thread.

I think it's me that should be apologising to you if I removed that 'adoption template' from your talk page. I actually thought that another editor (Gaurarjun) had added it when they posted there. Sorry if, in my haste, I removed it. That said, the right place to put it is, as Clovermoss explained, is on your userpage, not your talk page. So feel free to place it there, if you wish. Nick Moyes (talk) 22:44, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

Nooooo! I didn't post the adoption template (or if I did, it was by accident). I'm looking at all the talk of templates and my brain hurts, and anyway I don't think adoption is the way forward any more.

Glad the chicken got roasted. Cheers Maryanne Maryanne Cunningham (talk) 22:53, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

TheWikiWizard - January 2020

Hello, Nick Moyes! Here is the January 2020 issue of TheWikiWizard.

• What's Hot! (We Found Santa Claus!...)
• Articles (DFFT, Young Editors!)
• The Wikipedian
• News about Wikipedia! (Wikipedia News and Events!)
• Editor's Notes (New Main Page DYKS)
• Activity Page (Fun Activities, and super cool stuff...)
• Ads (Super Cool Ads)

We hope you like this month's issue! If you'd like to discuss this issue, please go to this issue's talk page. Happy Reading! --Thegooduser Life Begins With a Smile :) 🍁 04:00, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Delivered by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) at 04:10, 13 January 2020 (UTC) on behalf of DannyS712 (talk)

Tech News: 2020-03

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• You can no longer read Wikimedia wikis if your browser use very old TLS. This is because it is a security problem for everyone. It can lead to downgrade attacks. Since 9 December you just see a warning. Soon the browser will not connect to the wikis at all. Most are users on Android systems older than 4.4. You can read the browser recommendations. [1]
• Special:LinkSearch has been moved from the "Redirecting special pages" section on Special:SpecialPages to the "Lists of pages" section. [2]

Changes later this week

• Wikis can protect pages so that only some users can edit them. The standard protection levels are Require autoconfirmed or confirmed access and Require administrator access. If your wiki use more protection levels the technical name might be renamed for standardisation. This doesn't affect what users see. [3]
• The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 14 January. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 15 January. It will be on all wikis from 16 January (calendar).

Future changes

• Deepcat and Catgraph will stop working. This will happen at the end of January. This is because you can now use the normal search function instead. [4]
• You can use <ref follow="…"> to merge footnotes that follow each other. It is meant to be used for digitised books on Wikisource. If the order of the footnotes is wrong no error was shown but the bad <ref> was shown outside the <references /> list. This will change and you will see an error message instead. [5]

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:40, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

User:Gaurarjun blocked

FYI, Gaurarjun has been blocked, and I agree with the block. Also pinging Clovermoss to inform her of this. I left a comment on Gaurarjun's talk page with some advice. ↠Pine (✉) 21:49, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, Pine. Yep I saw that at ANI. I also tried to give them some advice, but some people think they know how best to do things, only to discover, too late, that they don't. BTW:How did the training videos work out? Cheers, Nick Moyes (talk) 23:09, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi, Nick. I set up a space for the videos and associated information on the Outreach wiki, which you can see by following this link: Outreach:NavWiki. Progress is slow but good. At the moment I'm doing this work on unpaid time, and the future of the project is uncertain, partly because of the problems associated with funding. Funding issues include the history of WMF having conflicts with the community, and concerns regarding WMF's unreliability with providing grant funding. I would prefer to get funding from a non-WMF source, but I don't know if that will ever happen, and without that funding this project will continue at a slow pace for the foreseeable future.

By the way, I am usually fine with people requesting to have off wiki conversations. Email, Google Hangouts, and IRC conversations happen routinely for official business such as meetings, and there are many Wikimedians who have informal conversations on social networks. What I am not OK with is someone refusing to accept "no" for an answer to a request for an off-wiki discussion, especially if the discussion is of a personal nature rather than for some official business such as discussing nonpublic evidence in a sockpuppet investigation.

Thank you for mentoring Clovermoss. She seems to be doing very well on Wikipedia. ↠Pine (✉) 23:22, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Thanks - I'll take a look. Yes, I daren't say I'm proud of her, as Clovermoss would be a darned good Wikipedian without me, but I have taken some pleasure in seeing her grow and guiding her development here. A very mature head on those shoulders, I must say. Nick Moyes (talk) 23:50, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the compliment! I noticed the block when I logged on yesterday, but I wasn't sure what I thought about it at first, and it took me awhile to come to a conclusion. I was slightly surprised that I wasn't notified of the ANI discussion while it was ongoing, especially since I'm mentioned in it. Throughout my interactions with them, I tried my best to steer it in a more productive direction. I was clear about not wanting to communciate over WhatsApp, but I got the impression that this was someone who didn't really understand why that doesn't usually happen and felt that asking repeatedly might change the answer I gave (which is why I wrote my last response the way that I did). In general, I'm not opposed to off-wiki conversations, but I felt uncomfortable doing that here and I tried to make that clear. I was frustrated when they continued to ask after I clearly said no, though. I like to feel like I can trust someone if I talk to them off-wiki, and I felt uncomfortable making that judgement call here. I've had some bad experiences with stuff like that before (though not related to Wikipedia, with the exception of some disturbing messages a few months ago from a different person in my talk page history that have since been revdelled). I don't have a WhatsApp account and I wasn't creating one to interact with just one person, anyways. Around the time I stopped replying, when I got the YouTube links, I went to their talk page and saw CaptainEek's message about how comparing other people to the Gestapo is not cool. I started thinking that so far their editing has been fairly distruptive and they might get blocked for that. Now, they've been blocked, for personal attacks, and PAs are clearly not okay. They appear to have since apologized for their actions: I'm not sure if that's enough in this context but I'd like to believe that it is a sincere apology. I think taking some time away from Wikipedia could be useful, as other people have already pointed out. I think that demonstrating how they'd like to contribute to Wikipedia constructively would also be a good idea if they'd like to be unblocked in the future. Clovermoss (talk) 02:29, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Question/observation

Hi Nick, hope you don't mind me asking you another question (you are very helpful, bless you).

Pages that don't exist show up in red. But, so do some pages that DO exist Eg, I inserted this link to an article esplumoir, and it shows up red, as does the other French reference in the entry. The page itself is there, in French.

But 'your' Mont Blanc Massif: (French: Massif du Mont-Blanc is blue.

Could you explain? (Hope this is the right place to post this, should it be in the Teahouse?) Thanks again Maryanne Cunningham (talk) 22:57, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

No problem, Maryanne Cunningham. That's a darned good question, and you are absolutely right to hold me to account to my statement at the Teahouse. I am very impressed you've advanced already to using interlanguage link templates ({{ill}}) where, it is quite true: you get both a red link if there's no page on English Wikipedia (we often just write en-wiki for short), and then a blue link for the tiny 'fr' linking to the equivalent pre-existing article on French Wikipedia. There is no page on Esplumoir yet on enwiki, so it is red, but the target page on fr-wiki is 'Esplumoir Merlin' -which does exist as you appreciate.

I probably ought to go through the Mont Blanc massif article to look for any new blue links in the interlanguage link templates and remove them (mainly glaciers), as I'm intending to renominate the article for Featured Article status later this year, as it needs to be as near perfect as possible. Were you aware that, in desktop view, the lower left side of the page shows all the languages that an article is available in? So there's then no need to use the 'ill' template when there is an article here on en-wiki.

Now, I've copied the text in wikimarkup from that article which I've pasted below, and it's worth looking at in detail:

"The Mont Blanc massif (French: Massif du Mont-Blanc; Italian: Massiccio del Monte Bianco) is a mountain range in the ..."

The source code for this is:

"The '''Mont Blanc massif''' ({{lang-fr|Massif du Mont-Blanc}}; {{lang-it|Massiccio del Monte Bianco}}) is a [[mountain range]] in the ..."

Note that, instead of using the interlanguage link template ({{ill}}), that sentence is using a different template to speedily indicate how the place name is spelled in different languages. It uses the {{lang-fr}} template. Thus, it is 'French' which is blue linked, not "Massif du Mont-Blanc", so allowing a user to go to the page on the French language, and so on. Click either of those template names above, and you'll go to the documentation for those templates.

I rarely use the language template, and so I forget how to format it. So, whenever I need to add in the source code for it (a.k.a. wikimarkup), I find an existing article that uses it, open the 'Edit source' tab and then just copy, paste and then tweak the text to suit.

By the way, have you encountered 'Redirects' yet (Shortcut: WP:REDIRECT). This allows you to create alternative spellings for articles, but send all users just to the one page. Thus, Massif du Mont-Blanc will REDIRECT to Mont Blanc massif.

Has this made sense, I wonder?

There's no problem you posting questions on my talk page, if you wish. Obviously, apart from a few friendly 'talk page stalkers' there's no-one else here to see your question, so it can be quite a while before I can reply - sometimes days. In contrast, the Teahouse gives you access to a wider range of potential helpers, and thus a quicker reply. This is why I encourage complete beginners who enquire about adoption to actually ask their first basic questions at the Teahouse, as they'll get a far quicker reply than on one person's user talk page. It's the complicated questions that are not urgent, but which perhaps require much more detailed handling over a prolonged period, that I think really suits the 'Adoption' process better, especially as there's no risk of threads disappearing after a few days into an archive, and one can follow the flow of conversation far better when two people engage over finer detail or multiple queries. (In case you're interested, this page shows the back and forth chats between me and my recently graduated star pupil, Clovermoss, who I'm rather proud of - if that's the right word to use, which it probably ain't! Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 23:49, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Nick. Maryanne Cunningham (talk) 21:18, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Conditional inversion

Hi, Nick. In your interaction with Sergacy at the Teahouse, you said " Were you to change the licencing back, you might find yourself having to go through our WP:OTRS system to prove there was no current copyvio". They asked for explanation, and you did so, using the phrase "Should you do so". I get the impression that the other party is not a native English speaker, and of course I don't know what part of your suggestion they had difficulty understanding. But I notice that in both your original comment and in your explanation you used the rather literary device of inversion to express a conditional ("Were you... "; "Should you ..."). I'd like to suggest that it is clearer, especially for non-native readers, to use an explicit "if".

With appreciation for all you do at the Teahouse, yours ColinFine (talk) 15:54, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Fair cop, Colin - I will change it. Thank you so much. Nick Moyes (talk) 16:01, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Thank you

@Nick Moyes:Thank you for the photo! I put it on my user page... The Evil Sith Kitten (talk) 16:58, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Co nom

I see you've finally taken the plunge. If you'd like another co-nom I'm happy to write a statement; of course, with Ritchie333 and Amorymeltzer nominating you you're already in good shape so I won't be offended if you say "no thanks". Let me know. Vanamonde (Talk) 17:26, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Man time flies... ~ Amory (u • t • c) 17:38, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

note re ideas

hi. thanks for your post at WP:History! we appreciate it. we will give it some thought.

I am writing on a separate subject. I have a new idea for a new Wikipedia policy. in fact I am thinking this should be a sixth pillar. Here it is: "Wikipedia has a zero-tolerance policy for harassment of any individuals." what do you think? the last day or two has really opened my eyes, in terms of the omissions and gaps here on that area. if you're interested, let me know, and I'll send you more details.

by the way, is it okay if I add some paragraph breaks to your useful note at WP:History I simply want to be able to read it more easily in full depth. thanks. --Sm8900 (talk) 14:24, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

@Sm8900: Hasty reply: yes, format away. will try 2 reply later.Nick Moyes (talk) 15:52, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi Sm8900 and I'm sorry I could do no more than type a quick 'on the hoof' reply yesterday. Whilst I completely support the need for Wikipedia to have a zero-policy stance on harassment of anyone -and I've seen a few unpleasant things said and done between ostensibly collegiate editors in the past - I would not feel able to advocate for a completely new 'Pillar', as you propose. I believe that that intolerance is - or at least, ought to be - already fully enshrined in the 4th Pillar of Wikipedia (WP:5P4), namely that Wikipedia's editors should treat each other with respect and civility. There seems to me to be a welcome shifting in attitudes over the last couple of years, with a lot of quite heated discussion about WMF's actions over one particular issue last summer. Disregarding the specifics of that one event, I feel it has raised a broader awareness of the need for us to act more collegiately (is that a real word, says my spellchecker?) and more respectfully when we engage with others. Wikipedia is growing up and is no longer a teenager, and with that maturity comes the expectation of a more professional way of interacting. Clearly, WMF feels it needs to have systems in place to protect individuals from harm, especially if it doesn't think that any individual wiki community is taking quite the right action itself. And because of its 'anyone can edit' philosophy, we do lay ourselves open to also enabling 'anyone to abuse or harass another' too, so we absolutely need systems in place to prevent that. I went back to WP:HISTORY and I see you've had quite a discussion on the topic there, and I also see WMF are about to launch the next phase of their consultation (not that I've been engaged with that).

All my waffle above really boils down to agreeing with your concerns, but not agreeing with your specific proposal. At a very hasty skim through, I couldn't spot any obviously instance in your interactions with others where you've experienced problems yourself. But if you are experiencing problems, there are various means here to resolve that, either on or off-wiki. Please let me know by direct email if you do have concerns, or visit WP:HARASSMENT for our current policy and how to deal with it.

Oh, and thank you for your stated support on another issue. Good luck with the History project, too; I've fixed a broken link in my suggestion about the Hot Articles bot. Nick Moyes (talk) 10:18, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

your edit to Mullet

Gooday. I have your Talk on my watchlist but no idea why, and just read the '6th pillar' stuff a few hours ago. Leaving that aside, I've just been trawling through the history of Mullet, and found your OR relating to an ice hockey team and radio station. Any reason this unsupported content was added and slipped-in with the 'wrong' edit summary? Thank you.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 01:45, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi there, Rocknrollmancer, thanks for stopping by (even if it is two years after the event). As I've no interest in the topic of the article whatsoever, I would have been monitoring Special:Recent Changes for vandalism that night. I can see I made a number of reverts, as the article was having repeated vandalism attacks, and I issued warnings to at least two IP editors, one of whom went over level 4 and was reported and blocked. It looks as if I tried to revert back to an undamaged version of the page, and left what I still think was meant to be a fair edit summary that I was Reverting on the grounds of "A series of subsequent edits added nonsensical and unsupported statements". It wasn't the clearest of edit summaries, was it? But evidently, in reverting I hadn't realised that the version I selected to go back to was not actually the best version, and thus I accidentally re-inserted another bit of bad editing, without realising it. I suspect I accidentally clicked the wrong radio button in view history. This can happen when articles have been subjected to a series of vandalistic edits from various different users and the reverting editor misses one and goes back to a less good one than was intended. There was certainly no intention on my part to revert and in so doing add anything uncited back to the article. Indeed, I clearly thought the problem was going to continue as I made this request] to protect the page from further harm, which is something I very rarely feel the need to do. I hope my good faith actions didn't perpetuate uncited content remaining in the article for too long afterwards? Thanks for asking, and I'll have to chalk this up to "must try harder". Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 02:22, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, I don't use utilities HG and TW. I'll try to get back to it when I can, but I want to avoid any intensity presently and OWNership issues. I have mostly stopped writing prose - only as a last resort when really needed, consequently I spend much time back-tracking. This article is one of my pet hates as there is no historical evidence any of it existed when (as early as) it is supposed to have done; Mostly it's conflated folklore and, as with many other articles, the content is driven by keyword-searching. I know three 1970s UK names for this haircut, none of them being 'mullet'! But, of course, those names would be difficult to prove. Also the article has a degree of WP synth in mentioning "mullet heads", as used in the film Cool Hand Luke (I've seen the clip online) and which in itself is an example of wp coatrack. Also used in a famous historic book (Tom Sawyer/Huck Finn) mentioned at Mullet (haircut) #Etymology - claim is contradicted by 'supporting' reference; I think I've seen it scanned somewhere or at Google books, but I'll try to find it and look into the copyright when I can per {{copyvio link}}. rgds, Steve.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 12:57, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Thank You!

Nick Moyes Yes, thank you Nick I took you up on that. I appreciate it a lot. Best, LorriBrown (talk) 05:08, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

You've got mail

Hello, Nick Moyes. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.Thegooduser Life Begins With a Smile :) 🍁 23:50, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

Admin

I hope you become an Admin! Best--Thegooduser Life Begins With a Smile :) 🍁 03:15, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Thank you so much. I have a strong feeling that you will too, one day! Nick Moyes (talk) 08:18, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

@Nick Moyes: Add me in!! I hope you become an admin as well. I'm not interested in becoming an admin myself, but I'm sure you will do great with the tools. Interstellarity (talk) 13:52, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

And thank you too, Interstellarity. I appreciate you wanting to nominate me earlier on, but it wouldn't have worked out back then. BTW You don't need to ping a user on their own talk page they'll get a notification anyway. All the best, Nick Moyes (talk) 16:12, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

@Nick Moyes: I am well aware that I don't need to ping a user on their own talk page. If you like an explanation to why that is, I use a user script (User:Enterprisey/reply-link.js) that helps me reply to talk page messages easily. The script automatically adds the ping for me so that is why I pinged you. Interstellarity (talk) 19:42, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

You're gonna make a great admin I remember you helped me long time ago you're really helpful :) tLoM (The Lord of Math) (Message; contribs) 04:48, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

Help

I need help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elenabesley (talk • contribs) 23:25, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

Beast of Riber

Gooday and Compliments of the Season to you. I saw the closed AfD noting your extensive comments. I have done some editing at articles named Riber and Riber Castle (which I feel should be merged) and was minded to delete the prose at Riber relating to the beast. I was lucky to find a cached version of the deleted article at Google, so instead I left it with a couple of tweaks to de-sensationalise. As explained by WP:VNT, I have added the local sources which establish well-historic usage of the phrase in secondary media. Unfortunately, after a quick look only, there isn't an easy way to explain the local name of Lumsdale used by Matlock Mercury (Beast of Lumsdale) in WP terms. b rgds,--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 13:48, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, Rocknrollmancer. I should have thought of doing that. I'm not totally convinced Riber and its Castle should be merged, as both are notable in their own right. However, Riber is a small article, so maybe a merge and a redirect would be sufficient. If you live in, or are actively editing articles about Derbyshire, you might like to joined and Watch WP:WikiProject Derbyshire. It could certainly do with a few more active editors participating there. Seasons greetings, Nick Moyes (talk) 15:06, 24 December 2019 (UTC)  

Well, the penny has finally dropped - this is why I have your Talk page on my watchlist! I don't like loose ends. I saw your comments re Matlockite and it stirred my memory. BTW, one of my distant relatives was an artisan woodworker living at Riber Castle during the build, and committed suicide there circa 1870, leaving a widow with no home (tied cottage or somesuch) no means of support and several children. Or maybe it was not suicide. In my other life of internet writing I am well-known for going off-topic, so if this offends, delete (I will not be offended). I'll read through the RfA when I get a few minutes, seems to be going swimmingly.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 21:12, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

@Rocknrollmancer: Ah - good spot. I have (had) so many weird pages on my watchlist from using Twinkle to revert vandalism etc that, when I turned my email notifications back on again after a pause of over a year, I was swamped with notifications about things I'd no idea I'd got there. It took ages to clear out the articles I no longer was interested in. Life is so much nicer now. But I hadn't made the connection with the Riber chat, either. Sorry about that. Interesting story about your distant relatives. Like you, I can ramble away for England, which I also do on other platforms as well. Cheers, Nick Moyes (talk) 22:11, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

How to voice opinion at RfA

Hi, I'd like to support you at RfA, but I have no idea how to post a support vote comment. Thanks. tLoM (The Lord of Math) (Message; contribs) 04:43, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello, The Lord of Math, thank you for saying that. Being a good admin is more than being helpful, as competence in applying our rules and policies is really what counts. If I feel a candidate has that, I would go to their RfA page, e. g. Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Nick Moyes, read the nomination statements and the answers to questions left by others. I  would then look at some of the key areas they've worked at (AFD, CSD etc), check their block log and scroll through talk page archives for signs of handling disagreements or complaints.

If, after all that, I decide to leave a !vote, I'd look at the Table of Contents for their RfA page, and click the Support or Oppose link to go to either section. I'd click the 'edit source' link right next to it, and scroll to the bottom of that section. On a new line at the bottom I'd follow the format of previous !voters, starting the line with:

#'''Oppose''' - followed by your reason(s), or #'''Support''' - followed by your reason(s). This renders as:

1. Oppose insert your reason here, followed by signature
2. Support insert your reason here, followed by signature

It is expected that opposers explain their reasons more fully than if they support. The hash symbol creates a numbered bullet point for you.

Many thanks for your interest in supporting me. Should I get through, I only hope I can demonstrate I've earned the editing community's trust. (I've been here 10 years - active for 5 - yet I still feel there is much to learn!) Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 08:31, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

For a lesson in how help is done

Just wanted to give my thanks for a lesson in clear-cut, truly kind, help on Elenabesley's page - definitely taking notes.

I was just going to come over here, but thought I should handle my other notification first - which was from Zinnmann confirming he'd seen your identification of the waterfall from over at WP:VPM.

I thought I'd just been seeing your name a lot at the moment from RfA, but actually that would be inaccurate - it isn't why I see you around at all. How do we get more editors to stay? Just find another Moyes!

You'd get a barnstar, but my wifi's too poor to load all the pictures, so please consider this a Textual Barnstar Voucher - redeemable for an image-based one at any future point where good internet is present. Nosebagbear (talk) 10:14, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for those kind words, though I now have a policy of declining vouchers, preferring instead the real thing. I recently threw out a drawer full of useless vouchers from Jessops, Maplins, Watkins and Doncaster, Mothercare etc, all of which are irredeemable for one reason and another. I do, however, take cash and cheques! Nick Moyes (talk) 10:47, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) What did you do to the vouchers? --Rocknrollmancer (talk) 11:48, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

I did a sort of WP:PROD on them. I left them in a drawer for about eight years to mature and devalue without anyone ever looking at them, and then, without any warning whatsoever, I speedily binned them. Nick Moyes (talk) 11:58, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

I've just noticed large page up and down arrows on this - your doing? Brilliant! Saves faffing about with two hands - Fn/Home keys - or substantial touch pad gesture. Got to fly.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 13:48, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

OK on that. And yes - it's a template "skip to top and bottom" - see source code at the very top of this page. Nick Moyes (talk) 14:00, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

I couldn't understand

Hi, you recently answered a request with caption How to revert any edit? on Teahouse. You told that there is an undo option at the bottom of edit history page but it is not present there. One thing I must tell you that I'm editing wikipedia on a smartphone.Alpha rows (talk) 19:21, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

@Alpha rows: You misread me, I'm afraid. The undo link is at the end of every single row in the View History page. Each row is one saved edit. I use a tiny iPhone to edit sometimes, but I would never try to do fancy stuff in 'Mobile View' on it. I always switch to 'Desktop View' when on my phone. It's not at all obvious it's an option, but there at the very bottom of the page is a link to switch between them. You can tell if you're stuck in mobile view because the page url will have an '.m.' in it (like this: ..https://en.m.wikipedia.org....), but not in Desktop View, In future if you need Teahouse help, please ensure you explain if you need assistance with 'Mobile View' - very few of us use it for anything other than viewing content, and a reply might take a lot longer, I'm afraid. Actual editing is far better in Desktop View on a smartphone, I can assure you. Nick Moyes (talk) 19:58, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

I'm still confused. I switched to desktop site but couldn't find undo option. It's really really difficult. Alpha rows (talk) 20:21, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

@Alpha rows: OK, let's take it in numbered steps. You try, then tell me which number you get lost it. If we get there, I've already nipped over to your own talk page, left a daft message, and you can then try to undo it. There's a short bit of help at WP:UNDO, too, but it's not totally clear to new users. So here goes my version:

1. Go to Desktop View (tiny link at very bottom of every page)
2. Go to your own talk page Link: User talk:Alpha rows
3. Look for the Tabs towards the top of the page. They say Article; Talk; Read; Edit; View History etc
4. Click View History tab
5. Look down the page - on your talk page there should be three entries across the page (rows)
6. Can you see the time/datestamp for each one?
7. Can you see the user namev for each one? (Two by Nick Moyes one by HostBot)
8. Can you see the 'edit summary' explaining what the edit contained?
9. Moving rightwards, can you see the word 'new section' on a couple of them?
10. Then right at the very end the word in blue: 'Undo'?
11. Find one of my edits to your talk page's History and click undo, and leave an edit summary in the box at the bottom of the page. I left two edits - just try and undo the 'follow up; one.

I'll add your userpage to my 'Watchlist' so I'll get a notification if you're successful. If not, tell me what number (above) you get stuck on. (Nipping downstairs for a coffee - I expect success when I get back !! )Nick Moyes (talk) 20:53, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

...And don't you dare say you're dumb! It's a step learning curve to begin with - everything is all in funny places, and we all use words and terms that we all understand, but often forget a beginner doesn't. (I actually overwrote you saying that so as not to lose my own edit as we had what we call an 'edit conflict' where two people try to change one page at a time.) It's just a case of taking your time.Nick Moyes (talk) 20:55, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

Oh 😇😇 I think I did it. You are great. Thanks a lot. You are such a nice and humble teacher. Hope you don't mind calling you a teacherAlpha rows (talk) 21:08, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

		The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
		You are very kind and generous. You truly 💕 deserve this. Thanks for being helpful without getting irritated.

@Alpha rows: I'm not totally sure you did it the right way - you've partially deleted some sentences via a normal edit, I think. There's nothing in your 'View History' that shows you did a one-click 'undo'. What I can't fathom is how you say you can't do a simple undo, yet you can manage a Barnstar! But no, I take it as a compliment if you think of me that way. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 21:24, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

Your input is requested

at Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Next issue/Community view before Friday.

Only 100 or so words. It should be fun and serious at the same time.

All the best,

Smallbones_(smalltalk) 00:12, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi Smallbones. Thanks for the invite. What with an ongoing RfA, an impending tax return, and a house to finish renovating, I don't think I'll have time right now. But I'll have a quick think. Maybe something on Jess Wade?  Done

In the future I'd love to contribute something even bigger. I could potentially envisage an article entitled "Wishing you were dead!" - about and the challenge we have of getting photos of images of notable people whilst they're alive, or of them only meeting our notability criteria after they stumble under a bus, and somebody then publishes an obituary. And how we as a individuals, the community and WMF as a body could do an awful lot more to encourage organisations to mobilise individual images of their most prominent members - alive or dead. Let me know if that might be of interest or not. Perhaps it's already been done. Could be a joint piece to bring in different perspectives and examples. Nick Moyes (talk) 00:41, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Sorry your busy - the best editors always are! I absolutely want to run the "Wish you were dead" either as an op-ed, or maybe even a humor column. Please let me know whenever its ready. (Any) Middle of the month is a good time to submit it. Smallbones_(smalltalk) 00:47, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

OK, Smallbones but it might be a slow burner. I'll try and flesh something out in the months ahead. On a different, but humorous note, I'm not sure you could find any use for it, but I've just had what I think is the best interaction EVER with another editor. Could it be bettered? It might make you chuckle, anyway. See here. Cheers, Nick Moyes (talk) 00:59, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

HeeheeYogen8 - never ending story

Good evening again. Quite obviously "HeeheeYogen8" is very much active again.

Suggest to revert these edits again - Block evasion. Regards --Uli Elch (talk) 20:36, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

@Uli Elch: Oh dear, and thanks for the notification. I have blocked them on the /64 range for 3 months after seeing that an earlier 1 month block had just expired. I've also rolled back their edits per WP:BLOCKREVERT. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 22:01, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Tech News: 2021-31

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• If your wiki uses markup like <div class="mw-content-ltr"> or <div class="mw-content-rtl"> without the required dir attribute, then these will no longer work in 2 weeks. There is a short-term fix that can be added to your local wiki's Common.css page, which is explained at T287701. From now on, all usages should include the full attributes, for example: <div class="mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr" lang="en"> or <div class="mw-content-rtl" dir="rtl" lang="he">. This also applies to some other HTML tags, such as span or code. You can find existing examples on your wiki that need to be updated, using the instructions at T287701.
• Reminder: Wikimedia has migrated to the Libera Chat IRC network, from the old Freenode network. Local documentation should be updated.

Problems

• Last week, all wikis had slow access or no access for 30 minutes. There was a problem with generating dynamic lists of articles on the Russian Wikinews, due to the bulk import of 200,000+ new articles over 3 days, which led to database problems. The problematic feature has been disabled on that wiki and developers are discussing if it can be fixed properly. [6][7]

Changes later this week

• When adding links to a page using VisualEditor or the 2017 wikitext editor, disambiguation pages will now only appear at the bottom of search results. This is because users do not often want to link to disambiguation pages. [8]
• The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 3 August. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 4 August. It will be on all wikis from 5 August (calendar).

Future changes

• The team of the Wikipedia app for Android is working on communication in the app. The developers are working on how to talk to other editors and get notifications. You can read more. They are looking for users who want to test the plans. Any editor who has an Android phone and is willing to download the app can do this.
• The Beta Feature for Discussion tools will be updated in the coming weeks. You will be able to subscribe to individual sections on a talk page at more wikis. You can test this now by adding ?dtenable=1 to the end of the talk page's URL (example).

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

20:45, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Question

Hi, sorry, I didn't catch your np-reply before the entry was removed from UAA. The user's name is: "International Law Case Updater" and their edits so far are exclusively to law-related articles, such as legal cases and judges. I believe one definite concern would be that some users are likely to believe they represent an entity or organization that gives their edits more weight and/or authenticity then that of an ordinary editor (ie: the rest of us), making it less likely they would challenge, or even check, any questionable edits. I don't think we should be required to review all their edits thus far, and then police them going forward to alleviate that concern. I think encouraging them to select a different user name, one that would also make it easier for editors to engage with them in talk page discussions, would be a reasonable means of addressing these concerns, no? (imho) - wolf 01:19, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello..? - wolf 18:28, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

@Thewolfchild I don't think their username is especially out of place, nor related to an organisation. If you care to link to one or two diffs that suggest their edits are inappropriate, then I'd be happy to look further. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 19:12, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Deceased user User:CanadaGirl

Hello. User:CanadaGirl has been reported as deceased over a decade ago. However, a sub-account was created on test2.wiki in 2017. I'm not sure whether it's an indicator of compromise, or simply a server error.103.130.61.61 (talk) 10:39, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi - thanks IP editor. I took a look and I think that it was only the act of 'attachment' that took place in 2015 or 2017, not actual editing by this deceased user's account. I suspect that was simply some sort of 'backroom' activity not directly linked to the account (as can be seen by this report. I appreciate you reporting your concerns, but I don't think there's anything to worry about. Nick Moyes (talk) 19:07, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Tech News: 2021-32

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems

• You can read but not edit 17 wikis for a few minutes on 10 August. This is planned at 05:00 UTC. This is because of work on the database. [9]

Changes later this week

• The Wikimania Hackathon will take place remotely on 13 August, starting at 5:00 UTC, for 24 hours. You can participate in many ways. You can still propose projects and sessions.
• The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 10 August. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 11 August. It will be on all wikis from 12 August (calendar).
• The old CSS <div class="visualClear"></div> will not be supported after 12 August. Instead, templates and pages should use <div style="clear:both;"></div>. Please help to replace any existing uses on your wiki. There are global-search links available at T287962.

Future changes

• The Wikipedia Library is a place for Wikipedia editors to get access to sources. There is an extension which has a new function to tell users when they can take part in it. It will use notifications. It will start pinging the first users in September. It will ping more users later. [10]
• Vue.js will be the JavaScript framework for MediaWiki in the future. [11]

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

16:19, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

My first GA!

Remember my first article, Katherine Hughes (activist)? It's now a GA! I thought you'd like to know. I've certainly come far since being a newbie, haven't I? Clovermoss (talk) 01:47, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

@Clovermoss: That's fantastic news and, yes, you certainly have come a long way. How's student life and the health situation in Ontario right now? We've all be vaccinated here, and the stringent lockdown protocols lifted. Sensible people are still wary, of course. I've just had one daughter return from university after getting her degree, and the other just got through to start her degree in September. So it's 'all go' here. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 10:21, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

A lot of people have been vaccinated in my local area. Something like 80% of the adult population iirc? We also have a lot of children over 12 who've been vaccinated, too. Most of our stringent lockdowns have been lifted at the moment (you can go to gyms, movie theatres, eat at restauraunts, etc; I've been wary, but I enjoy going to the library with a mask) and the American border recently opened to people who've been vaccinated (which is a huge deal, because it's been closed for a long time, though we still had americans coming through via flights before this). I got a job last month, so that's been nice. I've been thinking of transferring to a different program at a different school to start sometime in January, but I haven't made up my mind completely yet. Clovermoss (talk) 14:27, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Theologian81sp again

Hi Nick, thanks for blocking the Theologian81sp IP sock the other day. He is on a dynamic IP, apparently, and seems unable to understand the concept of block evasion – you blocked 78.14.139.25 two days ago, yesterday he returned as 84.223.68.239 and I posted another message for him on User talk:84.223.68.239, trying to be crystal clear about what "being blocked" actually means. Despite acknowledging that message and making a half-hearted attempt to get Theologian81sp unblocked, he returned today with another IP, 78.14.138.87. It is (at least) the 10th IP address he has used since being blocked on 11 July! (I have a list of the ones I've found and there are three different ranges: 78.14.13x.x, 94.38.23x.x, and 84.223.6x.x.) It's hard to know just what he thinks is going on, actually; he signs all his talk page posts so he is not trying to hide his activities or pretend to be someone else, but why did he acknowledge the message "you may not edit Wikipedia articles or post to talk pages" and proceed to ignore it?! Some of his edits look ok, while others are not, but that's not really the point. Would range blocks help, do you think?

Sorry, this got a bit disjointed and rambling, but I wanted to send it off before I go to bed. Best, --bonadea contributions talk 22:20, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

@Bonadea I must confess to still not fully understanding how to make IPv4 rangeblocks without making collateral damage. IPv6 are easier to apply. I’m afraid I’m in bed now, so this might need raising at ANI tomorrow. Sorry I cannot help right now. Nick Moyes (talk) 22:37, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello, my name is Sucks-at-responding-in-a-timely-fashion. (But you may call me Fashion.) Belated thanks for this! I think I will need to raise this at ANI, since Theologian81sp has not ceased editing, and apparently thinks that as long as he doesn't sign their posts, and apologises for his block evasion, it is OK for him to keep at it – at least that's how I interpret Special:Diff/1038558970. (Apparently, I am now a WP filter!) Should that revision be revdeleted, since it links to a Facebook page that effectively outs him? I've seen him put his RL name on-wiki before, so perhaps I'm being too paranoid about it, but the last thing I want to do is out someone at ANI. Best, --bonadea contributions talk 09:39, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

@Bonadea: I don't think that needs a revdel as they've outed themselves by linking to a FB page with one member (themselves). Congrats on becoming a filter. Although the subject is a closed area for me, I see an attempt at good faith editing, overlain by total misunderstanding of how we work, and the rules they must abide by. I.e.: respect the block, see it through without editing at all under any address, and then apply to be unblocked after an appropriate period of time. Failure to do so just invites anyone to revert all their edits - good or bad - so that they get the message they can't continue to act in this disrespectful way whilst a block is in place. Please do raise an ANI thread about dealing with this - I would learn from it, but am not always able to find the right amount of time at the moment to contribute to issues that need continued and timely attention. Thanks, Nick Moyes (talk) 10:32, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Just so you know, I have now made an ANI report, at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Theologian81sp, block evasion and righting great wrongs. I do agree with you that this is a good-faith user who simply doesn't understand what the problems are – and I don't seem to be able to get through to him at all! Thanks for helping me out with this. You are an excellent sounding board. Best, --bonadea contributions talk 19:26, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for doing that. (Deep in Wikimania conference right now!) Cheers, Nick Moyes (talk) 19:29, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Re conversation on another platform/privacy

Hello, Nick Moyes. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

SusunW (talk) 17:29, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

replied. Nick Moyes (talk) 20:53, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Tech News: 2021-33

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• You can add language links in the sidebar in the new Vector skin again. You do this by connecting the page to a Wikidata item. The new Vector skin has moved the language links but the new language selector cannot add language links yet. [12]

Problems

• There was a problem on wikis which use the Translate extension. Translations were not updated or were replaced with the English text. The problems have been fixed. [13][14][15]

Changes later this week

• A revision tag will soon be added to edits that add links to disambiguation pages. This is because these links are usually added by accident. The tag will allow editors to easily find the broken links and fix them. If your wiki does not like this feature, it can be hidden. [16]
• Would you like to help improve the information about tools? Would you like to attend or help organize a small virtual meetup for your community to discuss the list of tools? Please get in touch on the Toolhub Quality Signal Sessions talk page. We are also looking for feedback from tool maintainers on some specific questions.
• In the past, edits to any page in your user talk space ignored your mute list, e.g. sub-pages. Starting this week, this is only true for edits to your talk page. [17]
• The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 17 August. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 18 August. It will be on all wikis from 19 August (calendar).

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

19:25, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Tom Crean (Explorer)

Hi Nick, back in June 2021 you were kind enough to offer me advice on Teahouse. Here is the link to that discussion -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive_1113#Tom_Crean_(explorer)_article

My attempts to contact other editors on the Tom Crean article have not elicited a response and despite my efforts to have the changes applied I appear to be hitting a brick wall. I did do as you suggested and created a Word document that applied the edit revisions. This includes a reference to my book and notes that point to my book as the source where relevant. I am assuming that an editor applying those changes would just copy and paste after examining the changes but I could be naive in thinking this unless an editor were to check it over first. If this is possible and it's found that changes are required then I would apply them on the expert advice of an editor. In our previous discussion you did suggest I could perhaps make those edits myself but as the author of the biography that gave rise to the need for revisions, I'd still feel uncomfortable doing this. I would be most grateful for your help in the matter as the official revisions to Crean's story in the Dictionary of Irish Biography were made back in March 2021. I could send over the Word document that I have created as a replacement for the article if that is agreeable to you and of course, if you have the time to volunteer your assistance, Kind regards, Timfoley50 (talk) 23:54, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

@Timfoley50 I'm having a minor family hectic period right now (broken washing machine/new car needed/family members leaving home) - I will endeavour to help you as soon as a can. You can email me if you wish, but it may take a while to reply. The approach isn't to overwrite an article, but to make piecemeal changes. It would help if you would think about how you would recommend changing each section or paragraph, and how you'd support each statement. I will do what I can to assist. Nick Moyes (talk) 21:06, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

@Nick Moyes Thank you again Nick and please accept my apologies for catching you at a bad time. In a former career I was a plumber so if it's the plumbing to and from the washing machine I can advise, if it's the machine itself then I'd be of no use at all. Yes, I would like to message you via e-mail if possible and I really appreciate you coming back to me on this. Timfoley50 (talk) 21:32, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

@Timfoley50: I have just emailed you so that you have my personal contact details, though I always advise against sharing any emails publicly on Wikipedia. Unfortunately, it's the machine that's the problem - a brilliant and trusty AEG that's done over 30 years of great service. I left some items on a 'cold soak' setting, only to come back to find steam pouring out of the machine, the woollens shrunk in near-boiling water, and the soap drawer half melted and collapsed. Think this ones a gonner! Nick Moyes (talk) 21:46, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

@Nick Moyes: Sorry I can be of no use to you on this then Nick and 30 years is a great return for any washing machine.Timfoley50 (talk) 21:53, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Tech News: 2021-34

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• The Score extension (<score> notation) has been re-enabled on public wikis and upgraded to a newer version. Some musical score functionality may no longer work because the extension is only enabled in "safe mode". The security issue has been fixed and an advisory published.

Problems

• You will be able to read but not edit some wikis for a few minutes on 25 August. This will happen around 06:00 UTC. This is for database maintenance. During this time, operations on the CentralAuth will also not be possible.

Changes later this week

• The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 24 August. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 25 August. It will be on all wikis from 26 August (calendar).

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

21:57, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

User:HeeheeYogen8 is falsifying rejecting unblock message

Good evening. I really can't believe it any more: User:HeeheeYogen8 is now even falsifying rejecting unblock message !!

Imho he should now finally be blocked from editing his own talk and user pages.

Regards --Uli Elch (talk) 17:40, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

@Uli Elch Thanks, though I see RickinBaltimore has already reverted that edit (diff) and made it clear they will lose talk page access if they don't address the reasons for their block. So nothing further to do, right now, but feel free to keep me informed, especially if you see further evidence of them evading their range blocks. Nick Moyes (talk) 18:54, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

What Nick just said. RickinBaltimore (talk) 19:00, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Read-only reminder

A maintenance operation will be performed on Wednesday August 25 06:00 UTC. It should only last for a few minutes.

Also during this time, operations on the CentralAuth will not be possible (GlobalRenames, changing/confirming e-mail addresses, logging into new wikis, password changes).

For more details about the operation and on all impacted services, please check on Phabricator.

A banner will be displayed 30 minutes before the operation.

Please help your community to be aware of this maintenance operation. Thank you!

20:33, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

September 2021 at Women in Red

Women in Red | September 2021, Volume 7, Issue 9, Numbers 184, 188, 204, 205, 207, 208 Online events: New: Women writers & their works Contest (Jul/Aug/Sep): Latin America contest Continuing: Women's leadership & empowerment | Olympic & Paralympic Games Women's rights | #1day1woman See also: Interwiki Women Collaboration Other ways to participate: Join the conversations on our talkpage. Learn more about our proposed one-day online recruitment initiative in October. Help plan and coordinate future events. Become a member. You can always opt-out of notifications. Follow Women in Red on social media: Facebook | Instagram | Pinterest | Twitter

--Rosiestep (talk) 22:30, 26 August 2021 (UTC) via MassMessaging

TheWikiWizard-Summer 2021

Hello, Nick Moyes! Here is the Summer 2021 issue of TheWikiWizard.

Wikipedia News

• There is an election that is taking place, for the Wikikmedia Foundation, to read more about it click here
• The Wikipedia Library, has made some updates to their terms of use. You can read more here
• Wikimania took place this month!
• There are a few new admins who have joined the Admin Team, congrats to them! Remember, if you see a use who you believe meets the criteria for adminship here, or on other projects (Please check that Wikipedia/Wikimedia Project's Adminship Criteria page, as they vary by project), you can give it a try and nominate them for adminship if they are okay with it!

Humour

• There is no due date in Wikipedia, so I could take 1000 years to write this issue! ;P
• If you are reading this, you are reading this! (makes no sense, but okay!)
• There is no more Humour to put and this sentence is no longer funny.
• The mess I made in my room is bigger than this city!
• Here's a list of all events that happened between TWW issues

Editors notes

• I have been really busy with school so I was unable to write this issue for a long time. Thanks for your patience. :)

Like this Issue? Got Feedback? Spot a mistake? Discuss this issue here

To change your subscription, or to subscribe click Here. Enjoy this Issue and have a safe and happy summer! --つがる Talk to つがる:) 🍁 02:35, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

This Issue was sent to you by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) at 02:39, 27 August 2021 (UTC)