User talk:McPhail/Archive 9

Magdalen Berns

These edits are problematic: (1) and (2). They changed what Berns addressed (lesbians, not "people") and what the sources verified. (As far as I'm concerned, the summary for the first edit is b.s.) There are many ways to conceal and/or pervert information without being overtly obvious about it, and it relies on readers taking what they see at face value and not reading the sources. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 12:57, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

@Pyxis Solitary:: They're not my edits; I have no issue with them being amended/reverted. Thanks. McPhail (talk) 13:02, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

You misunderstood me. I know they're not your edits. I'm pointing them out because you have been a dedicated editor of the bio, and you edited the article after them. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 13:26, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

@Pyxis Solitary:: Noted. I didn't pick on the concerns you've raised about the edits in question but take your point. McPhail (talk) 15:08, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

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Berns = anti-Semite

Are you aware that Magdalen Berns has been accused of being an anti-Semite in a WP:RS/N discussion about AfterEllen? Comment here. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 05:23, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

@Pyxis Solitary:: I think Berns is clearly a person that a lot of people felt very strongly about one way or another, so inevitably there will be some unsubstantiated claims (both negative and positive) made about her. I think the article as it stands is very balanced and hopefully it can remain that way. McPhail (talk) 13:28, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

WWN

Please never use the Weekly World News as a source for anything anywhere on Wikipedia. Thanks, JBL (talk) 17:48, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

The relevant section of Wikipedia:Deprecated sources with respect to WWN is this: Since there are an endless number of poor sources, there are also an endless number of sources that would be deprecated if we bothered to have discussions on them. These sources have always been de facto deprecated as a normal result of our policies and guidelines that try to ensure that we use reputable sources. In short, WWN has never been deprecated for the same reason that the blog I wrote in high school has never been deprecated: no one with any sense would ever consider using it as a reference for any factual claim. Do not add it again. Thanks, JBL (talk) 17:13, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

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Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Professional wrestlers from New Mexico

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Repeated links

Please read this section in what you sent:

Duplicate linking in stand-alone and embedded lists is permissible if it significantly aids the reader. This is most often the case when the list is presenting information that could just as aptly be formatted in a table, and is expected to be parsed for particular bits of data, not read from top to bottom. If the list is normal article prose that happens to be formatted as a list, treat it as normal article prose.

These tables are often not read top to bottom which is why links should be repeated. This is supported by reading the sample table at WP:PW/SG - Galatz גאליץ^{שיחה Talk} 15:38, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

The policy reads "Generally, a link should appear only once in an article, but if helpful for readers, a link may be repeated in infoboxes, tables..." Included repeat links in tables is the exception in cases where this is helpful for readers. This is not the case for a short table in chronological order. There is no value to repeating a hyperlink six times. McPhail (talk) 15:45, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

That is untrue. Many people will look at the main event and not the pre-show matches, when they want to see something quickly. In addition, we have a style guide, which I have already pointed you to, which disagrees with you. Look at other articles and you will see, all WWE for example match the format I utilized. - Galatz גאליץ^{שיחה Talk} 15:55, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

@Galatz:: Wikipedia policies take precedence over a project's style guide. I have requested input on this matter on the MOS talk page and will defer to the advice given there. McPhail (talk) 16:06, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

I think you are misreading what I wrote. The SG is an interpretation of the policy. It is an agreed upon understanding of how the policy is used when it relates to PW articles. It does not contradict it, it basically is saying "When creating a PW table, WP:REPEATLINKS applies as follows..."

The Manual of Style allows for duplicating linking "if helpful for readers" / "if it significantly aids the reader". Where this is not the case, duplicate linking is not supported by the Manual of Style. I have asked for a view on whether the duplicate linking in the table in question is appropriate in view of the policy. McPhail (talk) 16:27, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Whatculture

Hello, McPhail. I have seen you used WhatCulture in the ECW High Incident article. Do you know WhatCulture is unreliable for facts and has no weigh for opinion? --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 09:34, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

• Fair enough, I will replace it. McPhail (talk) 09:39, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
  • Don't worry. I can give you the discussion, but the main point is the "You do not need to have any relevant experience or hold any particular qualifications" in the write for us section. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 09:41, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

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Some useful links?

Hi McPhail. It's great to see you working on the ECW events. Are you planning on adding shows for SMW or the USWA at some point? If it's helpful, Wikipedia:WikiProject Professional wrestling/Requested articles/Supercards was just reorganized and has a good chunk of missing shows. You might want to check out List of professional wrestling attendance records as well. 173.162.220.17 (talk) 18:53, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

@173.162.220.17:: Thanks, I am enjoying working on them. To be honest I doubt I will work on SMW or USWA events - they don't really interest me as much as the mid-90s ECW shows. I will check out the supercards and attendance records pages. McPhail (talk) 19:46, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

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• Lee Vilenski - that's great, many thanks for your great work reviewing the article. McPhail (talk) 17:51, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

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@Daniel Case:: that's great, thank you. McPhail (talk) 09:50, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

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• @Daniel Case:: that's excellent, thanks again for all your hard work on this. McPhail (talk) 19:16, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

WrestleMania 37

My son doesn’t like the “by pinfall” part, and wanted me to let you know. I am not sure how telling you this is helpful, as it is apparently mandated by the style guide and therefore cannot be changed, but he insisted. Sorry.

Kurisumasen (talk) 16:02, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

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Noted, thanks. McPhail (talk) 10:50, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

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Citation advice

Hi McPhail! I was hoping to get some advice from you regarding a citation for Glossary of professional wrestling terms. I recently added “pure wrestling” (à la ROH), for which I was able to use an interview with Jonathan Gresham over at Sports illustrated as a citation. However, the other word I added — “technical wrestling” — proved more elusive. When I did various online searches for it, the results were almost exclusively people using the term, but never anyone defining it. The only one I found is at a blog. Are those acceptable for WikiProject Wrestling? The blogger’s definition is essentially exactly as I myself would have put it, but that might make it my original research. Should I leave the definition uncited, or cite the blogger? Thanks! — SpikeToronto 23:27, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

• @SpikeToronto:: how about this article in the Jerusalem Post? "...his old-school technical wrestling, grinding his opponents into submission inside the ring with rough and precise grapples and holds...". See also William Regal's definition of a technical wrestler here. McPhail (talk) 21:53, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
  • Thanks! I’ll take a look. — SpikeToronto 04:48, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Colour banners on championships

There was nothing wrong with the championship banners at the bottom of wrestler's pages, and they've been like that for the past 2 years. I was working on them for consistency purposes, as they were heavily inconsistent before.

• See the RCF at Template_talk:WCW_World_Television_Championship which decided against idiosyncratic colour schemes on accessiblity grounds. McPhail (talk) 22:00, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

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NWA Jr. HW title

Hello, McPhail. How are you? I have seen your editions over the years. As far as I know, you like the classic wrestling. Right now, I want to improve the NWA World Junior Heavyweight Championship, since it has no history section and it's poorly sourced. Maybe, you want to help. Have a nice day --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 14:11, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

• @HHH Pedrigree: - I'm well thanks. Of course, I'll take a look at the article and do what I can. McPhail (talk) 15:44, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Hello. Thanks for your help, it's wonderful. I will try to write today. One thing I don't like is the unrecognized reigns, since there is no source. If you don't mind, I will hide them until I find a source. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 10:34, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

• • • @HHH Pedrigree: - yes no problem, best to stick to the "official" reigns. McPhail (talk) 11:58, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
      • Wow, this is really hard. My brain hurts, too much unnoficial, territories and such things... --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 14:37, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

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Evolution

Hello, McPhail. How are you? I hope you had a very good holidays. First, thank for your help with the NWA title, it's a better article. Second, I have a question, maybe you can help me. For several years, I have been thinking about Evolution (AJPW). The article is about a pro wrestling stable from All Japan Pro Wrestling. But the (AJPW) is not working. For people outside pro wrestling AJPW means nothing. the (professional wrestling) is already used by the WWE stable. So, do you think we should redirect to Evolution (AJPW stable) or (Japanese stable) or (Japanese professional wrestling stable)? --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 11:22, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

• @HHH Pedrigree: - I am good thanks, hope you had a great time too. That's a tricky one. The article on the WWE stable is at "Evolution (professional wrestling)", so maybe "Evolution (professional wrestling, Japan)" or "Evolution (Japanese professional wrestling)"? I will some more work on the NWA title article when I get the chance. McPhail (talk) 22:41, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. I will ask on the project talk page, maybe someone has another idea. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 18:23, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

Happy New Year

Feliz Año Nuevo. I hope you have a very good 2022. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 19:30, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

• @HHH Pedrigree: Thank you! McPhail (talk) 21:18, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

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3 name changes

Hello, McPhail. I have seen you opened several namechanges for several wrestlers. I don't follow WWE now, what do you think about Babatunde Aiyegbusi, Eric Bugenhagen, Rinku Singh and John Layfield? The first two work as Commander Azeez and Rick Boogs, which are likely the COMMONNAME. The third one works as Veer Mahaan, but he has a previous basketball career and he barely appears on RAW. The last one is called John Bradshaw Layfield by several sources, so maybe a name change is necessary. But, as I said, I don't follow WWE, so I don't know if these moves are right. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 10:18, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Hi @HHH Pedrigree: some thoughts below; these are just my opinions though.

*Babatunde Aiyegbusi - a tricky one as I don't really have a feel for how well known he is as a football player.

*Rinku Singh - again a tricky one as I don't really have a feel for how well known he is as a basketball player.

*Eric Bugenhagen - I think this is quite clearcut; he has been known by variations on "Rick Boogs" for a few years now.

*John Layfield - I would tend to leave this one where it is.

McPhail (talk) 10:46, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

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Another colaboration

Hello, McPhail. I hope you're fine. I have another proposal for you. Yesterday, I read that Karl Lauer passed away. He was a promoter and a huge part of Cauliflower Alley Club.I want to know if you are interested in 1, create an article for Lauer and 2, improve the CAC article. CAC is important, but 90% of the article is about the awards, with no mention of vicepresidents or chairmans like Lauer. What do you think?--HHH Pedrigree (talk) 08:04, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

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• @Le Deluge: many thanks for catching this and fixing it. McPhail (talk) 18:28, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for your edits on Reston railway station

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Nomination of Tyler Fullington for deletion

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The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tyler Fullington until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.

All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 11:06, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Nomination of Lori Fullington for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Lori Fullington is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lori Fullington until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.

All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 11:07, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for August 3

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Disambiguation link notification for September 29

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"Non Binary"

Abadon is listed with the female wrestlers on the AEW website, as is Sonny Kiss with the men. Please don't take it upon yourself to rearrange the listings without consensus.

Thank you. Vjmlhds 17:46, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

• @Vjmlhds: - MOS:GENDERID states "Refer to any person whose gender might be questioned with gendered words (e.g. pronouns, "man/woman", "waiter/waitress") that reflect the person's most recent expressed gender self-identification as reported in the most recent reliable sources, even if it does not match what is most common in sources." Referring to Abadon as a woman / Kiss as a man clearly violates this. I will open an RFC but in the meanwhile please do not violate this policy. McPhail (talk) 21:07, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

AEW has Abadon specifically listed as female wrestler, and Sonny Kiss as a male wrestler. Since AEW doesn't do intergender wrestling, that means Abadon wrestles women and Kiss wrestles men, How they identify in their personal lives is irrelevant to this particular list, as they are both clearly part of a specific roster within AEW. There is no such thing as a "non binary" roster or division in wrestling. This is a slippery slope to go down, because there's a risk of opening Pandora's box to other issues (God help us if someone starts moving Nyla Rose). If you want to start a discussion and let consensus figure it out, fine, but please keep in mind WP:BRD...you made a bold edit, I reverted it, as such a major change needs to be talked about, and now the discussion begins. Vjmlhds (talk) 22:48, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

"Pologne" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Pologne and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 October 6#Foreign language redirects to Poland until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Thryduulf (talk) 08:53, 6 October 2022 (UTC)