User talk:John from Idegon/Archive 72

NPP Backlog Drive Appreciation

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Bold

Hello! Could you point out in WP:MOS where it says that redirect terms are bolded, as you said on my talk page? I'm pretty sure that's not the case, but perhaps you know better than I do. Thanks.104.163.148.25 (talk) 14:46, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

MOSBOLD John from Idegon (talk) 14:52, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. I note the "These applications of boldface are done in the majority of articles, but are not a requirement.", but will leave it as you prefer it.104.163.148.25 (talk) 15:01, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

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Misclick?

Did you hit rollback in error here?--Jezebel's Ponyo^{bons mots} 20:11, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

Not in any way. If you go to his talk page and follow the subsequent conversation, my reason should be clear. However, I did intend to leave him a message as to why, but I got busy at work and by the time I had time, it had slipped my mind until I saw your message here. Thanks, Ponyo. John from Idegon (talk) 21:52, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

I see that perhaps you had meant to revert their correction of the spelling of consensus, but I don't see why you also removed an entire paragraph of a reply they made on their own talk page.--Jezebel's Ponyo^{bons mots} 21:55, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

It was made in the same edit. That edit refactored another editor's talk post, making rolling it back perfectly proper. John from Idegon (talk) 21:58, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

source?

If I add a source regarding the fact that Livin Lite is based there will you stop deleting it?--Utahredrock (talk) 03:42, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

No. Wikipedia isn't a directory. There is no other content in the article about particular businesses. If you disagree, start a discussion on the article talk page and try to gain consensus for your change. John from Idegon (talk) 03:55, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

It's a very small town and this is the world headquarters of an innovative RV manufacturer--the kind of place people would go out of their way to come on a factory tour, which is offered. It's not worth the time to fight you. I did put something on the talk page. I doubt too many people are following that page, and I doubt you even care enough to weigh in over there.--Utahredrock (talk) 04:34, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

So are you on their payroll or do you work for a PR firm that they've hired? Or are you a PR person for an RV trade association? Since you're making snide insinuations, I thought I'd just make some of my own. I lived most of my life in that area, just for your information. The town then, and now is primarily a tourist attraction. They do not need an RV manufacturer to draw people to the community. John from Idegon (talk) 04:42, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

Boulder High School

Hi, John. You just reverted an edit I made to Boulder High School and left a message for me on my talk page saying I needed to cite a source. I'm confused about what you want. Of the 16 "notable alumni" on that page, 11 have no citations. I added BHS to Gary D. Robson's bio page, and the citation (Classmates.com) got removed. The only other sources I found online were things that he wrote himself (the "about" page on his website and his LinkedIn profile). I know he attended BHS because that's when I met him, but my personal experience obviously isn't a valid citation. The other citations I looked at were mostly references to people's personal websites. Is his claim that he attended enough for a citation? Thanks. IanDGunn (talk) 19:09, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

You're doing this backwards. First you find sources, then you add information. Every single thing in Wikipedia needs to be paraphrased from a reliable source. This isn't Facebook. You do not write about what you know, what you've seen what you've figured out or what you've been told. Even if Classmates.com was a reliable source, there was not enough information to show that the person referenced there is the person you're talking about. John from Idegon (talk) 19:19, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

I understand, John, but that doesn't answer my question: is an individual's web site or LinkedIn profile considered a valid citation for facts (e.g. schools attended) in that person's biography? IanDGunn (talk) 20:30, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

No. We are not here to convey information the subject of the article wants disseminated. As a tertiary source, an encyclopedia is made up by definition of information summarized from what OTHERS have written about a subject. Again, that's what LinkedIn and Facebook are for. John from Idegon (talk) 20:40, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Understood. It's not a big deal to me, so I'll drop it. I just don't understand why you went after my edit, but left all of the other names on the list alone, when the majority of them are either uncited or reference the subject's own website. If I offended you somehow, let me know what I did and I won't do it again.IanDGunn (talk) 20:55, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

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Hello John from Idegon, thank you for your efforts in reviewing new pages!

The NPP backlog at the end of the drive with the number of unreviewed articles by creation date. Red is older than 90 days, orange is between 90 and 30 days old, and green is younger than 30 days.

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Elder High School

I am not clear on why my cite was not reputable. Can you recommend a source you prefer? Would you prefer Schooldigger? (I am monitoring this page, please reply here.)''Paul, in Saudi'' (talk) 09:09, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

NCES would be better, as that's the source US News & World Report uses. It's also the most widely used source for demographics here. It's also better to give the entire demographic profile. The construct of your addition makes it appear you are trying to say the school discriminates based on race. You will also need to source the census data, but IMO you've reached an incorrect conclusion. It's not uncommon for an urban private school to be skewed to white demographics but that's most likely an economic, not social issue. If you have journalistic or academic sources that speak to this, by all means please bring them. If you let this conversation stand a day or two, there are editors that are working on US discrimination in education that follow my talk. They will probably chime in. John from Idegon (talk) 15:33, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Layton High School

Hello John Idgeon. I have been trying to make an edit to the Layton High School wikipedia page with facts derived from a document located on the school district's website which is linked to from the School's website. You described that I must get information from the school's own website but they don't have the document uploaded on their own page. Like I said they link it through to the school district's website. It is still an official document backed by the school district that each school must make each year. What do I need to do to update the information.

Links Wiki Page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Layton_High_School

School website link to district's https://www.davis.k12.ut.us/Page/43871 (click on plans and reports)

that takes you here

https://www.davis.k12.ut.us/Page/90845

and after you select layton high you reach this document which was cited

https://www.davis.k12.ut.us/cms/lib/UT01001306/Centricity/domain/65/2017-2018%20sip/3-high%20school/Layton%20HS.pdf

They just added one for the new year so instead of the 2016-2017 I was trying to add I would like to update with this 2017-2018 document. Let me know. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.6.190.96 (talk) 19:41, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

That is not at all what I said. We are not interested in information from the school. All info in the article, with the exception of incontrovertible facts (like the address) must come from sources entirely independent of the school. The school has its own website to convey its own info. We write about what others have said about the school. That is what an encyclopedia is. John from Idegon (talk) 19:45, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Then I guess my question is how did the current information about the school get on there? Because it is completely taken from the same document just a few years earlier. And it is uncited. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.135.150.71 (talk) 23:23, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Yea, there is a lot of crap on Wikipedia. That doesn't justify adding more . See the link in the message immediately above for a source for some of the information. A lot of what is in that document is stuff we wouldn't include anyway. John from Idegon (talk) 23:41, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Mickelberry Sausage Company plant explosion

I made a new article, you can be the first to look at it. Thank you for your help on the other thing. ''Paul, in Saudi'' (talk) 06:24, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

As a new page patroller, I'd PROD it. Sorry. I'm not going to though. It fails WP:NEVENT as it stands now. I'd suggest moving it to Draft:Mickelberry Sausage Company plant explosion for now. You'll need sources from outside Chicago and from dates out aways from the event. If you need help, hollar. Growing up in Chicagoland, I remember that. John from Idegon (talk) 06:38, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

Talk page rules

Your proposed talk page rules remind me of the signs in China that say "please do not defecate on the sidewalk". BillHPike (talk, contribs) 20:54, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Or the laundry instruction tag on a baby's onesie. "Remove child before washing". And yet.... John from Idegon (talk) 21:01, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Ketchikan High School

Hello. I understand that not all of this article is properly sourced. I am willing to continue working on getting all of it properly sourced. However, you essentially deleted the entire article, including plenty of information that already had sources provided. Isn't it more reasonable to deal with the issues in the article on a piece-by-piece basis, rather than deleting all of it and forcing people to start from scratch? Ketchikanadian (talk) 01:44, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

I understand your point, but please understand mine. First, an encyclopedia article doesn't exist to tell the school's story; rather it is here to summarize what has been written about the school by others in reliable sources. Second, it isn't a guide for users of the school. This is a single high school district, ya? Then content on the middle school and the areas served belongs in the district's article. If it doesn't exist, feel free to create it, and I'm more than happy to help if you need it. I hope you don't feel I'm talking down to you, but nothing is ever erased from Wikipedia (well, not quite....libel and copyright infringement are), but are still available in the article's edit history. Some really good, and usually pretty easy content to add are enrollment and demographics data from NCES, and athletic info from the state sanctioning body. All schools should have history if you can source it, and unless it is written in a promotional or boosterish style, we can accept the school as a source for it (only because the content is very vital and frequently, especially for new-ish schools, is frequently not available elsewhere.)

Please be aware that there is a general "tightening up" on sourcing requirements all across Wikipedia. It's always been policy, but in the past has been selectively ignored. Just recently, it's been reported that English Wikipedia is the 5th most viewed website in the entire world, behind only Google, Bing, Yahoo and Facebook. That means two things that are on point here. One, we are rapidly rendering traditional paper encyclopedias obsolete. That leaves us with a moral responsibility to effectively do what they do; that being provide reliable sources to be used as references, not just for verification, but so a reader looking for information for an academic paper has something to cite (accuracy isn't why Wikipedia is usually not allowed as a source in education; it's our dynamic nature...the article cited may not say the same thing when the paper is written as when it is verified). Second, search engine optimization is a very real thing, and being mentioned on Wikipedia generates a lot of link juice, and believe me, people are quite aware of that.

I'm one of the coordinators of Wikiproject Schools,and I'm always happy to help an editor looking to improve school articles. John from Idegon (talk) 02:31, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Emil Martinec and Downers Grove

Hi John,

You recently reverted my edit to the Downers Grove list of notable people. I added Emil Martinec - he is from Downers Grove as mentioned on his wikipedia page. I'm confused why you said he had not tie to the community. Fireballs619 (talk) 17:55, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Perhaps you should reread that edit summary, Fireballs619. What I said is his tie to the community is unsourced. Two things are required to be in a notable people's list: Sources for notability (and since on Wikipedia, "notable" means "qualifies for an article", the existence of an article to link satisfies that) AND sources for a relationship to the subject of the article containing the list. Wikipedia itself is never an acceptable source, and the statement in his bio that he is from DG is not sourced. John from Idegon (talk) 18:18, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. The edit note was unclear to me, as I thought you meant there was no reference to DG, not that the info itself had no reference (if that makes sense). I will cite the source and re add him to the list of notable people. Fireballs619 (talk) 19:29, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks! John from Idegon (talk) 19:35, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Marian High School updates

John, New to the whole wikipedia pages due to loss of the communication person that normally does this. What do I need to do to update information on the Marian High School page. Not taking down any history just updating.Simply have the information sources? PatKnipper (talk) 19:03, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

PatKnipper, are you in some way connected with the school? John from Idegon (talk) 19:06, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

yes I work for the school PatKnipper (talk) 19:41, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification, PatKnipper. You are a WP:PAID editor and are currently in violation of Wikipedia's terms of use. Please bring yourself into compliance before editing any further. The encyclopedia article about the school is not in any way for the school to use for communication, no matter what your superiors have told you. We have no interest in information provided by the school. None. You, or anyone else the school assigns to "update" the school's article are expressly by the legally binding terms of use forbidden from directly editing the article. Apparently, from your above statement, the institution that employs you has been doing this for some time in violation of the legally binding terms of use, so I'll be reviewing the article closely soon. There is no need for you to post here any further, as I have no interest in helping any organization, especially one that purports to hold itself to a higher moral standard such as a church sponsored school, to steal Wikipedia's platform and reputation to advance its own purposes. Despicable. John from Idegon (talk) 20:04, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

John, I don't know how the page got here or who has been updating. That is why I was asking for help. I will not post or change anything based on what you have just said. My superiors are not tech savvy so they also would not know about the rules for editing or posting on site. We are not despicable just not savvy to how this all works.PatKnipper (talk) 20:21, 13 February 2018 (UTC).

Saratoga High School Alumni

Hi John, thanks for the friendly message... As you can tell, I'm a total newb here. I tried to follow citation rules the second time, citing a PDF'd archive of an article where the person is mentioned as a 2005 alumni. It was on page 5, in case you didn't see it...? I'm afraid that the original article wasn't put online, as the Saratoga Falcon paper didn't "go digital" until 2005. However, if a PDF archive is not satisfactory as a reference, then there seems to be no other proof published that the person attended Saratoga High School. Oh well. Let me know if it will work out or not. Thanks for all you do to keep Wikipedia awesome. 109.64.180.116 (talk) 20:04, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

It's not particularly that its a PDF that is the problem, it is what the PDF is of. A school newspaper is never a reliable source, especially for the school that publishes it. John from Idegon (talk) 20:08, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Stoneman Douglas Page

I added 2 notable alumni and the submission was denied. Those two people are in the rock band New Found Glory. Both of them and I as alumni are devistated by what happened. They are not looking to benefit personally. They want to do what they can to help. We have family members that go to school there and stepped over their friends to get out. We also have friends who lost their children. I am curious why my submission was denied.

Thank you,

JarettEast (talk) 15:36, 17 February 2018 (UTC)) — Preceding unsigned comment added by JarettEast (talk • contribs) 15:21, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Virtually all your edits have been revolving around this very obscure band. I have absolutely no obligation or desire to help you do that. On the other hand, I'm always glad to help those who want to contribute to the encyclopedia. That is not you. Please do not post to this page again. John from Idegon (talk) 15:54, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

I respect your opinion, however the band is not that obscure. Just look at their page.

64.134.178.41 (talk) 16:17, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Why would I bother trying to help someone who won't listen? Go away, hack. Oh, and thanks for letting us know your IP so when you get blocked for promotional editing, your IP can be blocked too. Adios. John from Idegon (talk) 16:31, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Challenge to your closure of discussion on religious pre- and post-nominals

I disagree with both of your reasons given for closure. As to 1), as stated in my comments in that discussion, Wikipedia:WikiProject Schools/Article guidelines#Infobox contents has gone beyond anything mentioned at MOS. As to 2), I'll let an administrator decide whether placing a neutral alert at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Catholicism to widen the input is canvassing. Please reopen this discussion or I will challenge the closure. @John from Idegon: Jzsj (talk) 14:26, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Word to the wise, Jzsj, you are talking to an editor who is very supportive of good-faith editors. He (I think) has pru8iecious little tolerance for those who disrupt more than they construct. Rhadow (talk) 14:40, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

In good faith, I fear that if the religious pre- and post-nominals are removed from infoboxes then this will be a major change in current Wikipedia practice. Please check the discussion that John closed to verify that I'm not the only one who is concerned about this. @Rhadow: Jzsj (talk) 14:46, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

You come to the talk page of a project you do not belong to, post a notice at a project you do belong to campaigning for support for your position in that discussion and you are threatening me? Please, involve an administrator. Be my guest. I do not tolerate promo editors on my talk page; I'll thank you not to post anything other than notices required by policy om my talk page again. John from Idegon (talk) 15:14, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

By now I would love to see a filing on AN/I and a request for a topic ban on all Catholic subjects, broadly construed. The Banner talk 22:15, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

• Busy being weekend dad til Tuesday AM. Will be following Docs advice after that. John from Idegon (talk) 22:18, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
  • The Banner, I think I liked fling better. I just noticed the utterly ridiculous conversation at his talk. I was just going to ask for a tban on schools, but you are correct. He again is clearly stating he is advocating based on an off wiki motivation, just as he did at the school. It's clear the man cannot separate his religious beliefs from his Wikipedia work. John from Idegon (talk) 22:31, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
    • This edit] of Jzsj gives me the nasty feeling that we are dealing here with a professional. The Banner talk 22:52, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Pre- and post-nominals discussion needs reopening regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Jzsj (talk) 00:54, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tomlinson Middle School

You've already commented so you may wish to follow up. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 22:59, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

St. Mark's School of Texas

The sources that were used for some of content on this page are simply wrong. I made the corrections to these facts in order to have factual information. I don't know how to add citations to the Wikipedia pages, and would appreciate your help or a quick tutorial.

https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/kbs59

https://www.smtexas.org/page/About-Us/School-Profile

https://www.pressreader.com/usa/the-dallas-morning-news/20070420/282303905694285

http://uncoveredtexas.com/texas-historical-markers-detail.php?city=Dallas&county=Dallas&type=&an=5113012846&page=32&param1=valu1&param2=value2

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth35101/m1/23/

Also, the book: "St. Mark's School of Texas: The First 100 Years," by William R. Simon, Published by St. Mark's School of Texas, 2006. Chapters 1-2.

You deleted the references to the Cathedral School's headmasters, but don't offer a reason why. It's already established in the page that Cathedral was part of the merger that created St. Mark's, yet there's no mention of their headmasters like there are for all the other headmasters. And there are no citations for Bogarte and Dini as headmasters, so why do you need them for Cathedral?

Thank you BBrooksDallas (talk) 00:22, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Your inability to edit is not my concern. I do not have the time or the motivation to tutor a WP:SPA. Try the Teahouse. John from Idegon (talk) 00:40, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I understand, but you did not respond to the questions regarding the headmasters. Thank you.

BBrooksDallas (talk) 01:02, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

WP:V John from Idegon (talk) 01:17, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Help

If you do decide to go ahead with requesting a topic ban, I'd be glad to help out. You may need research on behavior patterns etc. You can always find out where I'm at by checking here. 32.218.36.34 (talk) 03:52, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Judicial Watch

WP:DS? I think you meant something else. Doug Weller talk 19:33, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

wrong shortcut? I was looking to link discretionary sanctions, which I thought this article was under. Wrong there too? John from Idegon (talk) 19:35, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Middle and Elementary schools and AFD

Hi John from Idegon - many thanks for your message, that's very helpful and I will take your advice. Best wishes, Tacyarg (talk) 20:05, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

thank you

Hi John from Idegon - many thanks for your message, that's very helpful and I will take your advice. It is good to have wikipedians so vigilant in checking such egregious defaults. Kind regards.Emendment (talk) 03:42, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

Fiyoaree School

Hi again

I'm wondering what you would suggest about Fiyoaree School. It's been tagged as unreferenced since Sept 2016. Can't find any reliable sources. I could merge to Fiyoaree, but the school is a secondary school, according to its Twitter account, so not sure if your advice about primary schools would still apply? Thanks, Tacyarg (talk) 10:30, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

It's harder with schools in lesser developed countries. I see no indication that this is a terminal or diploma granting school and if all you can find is Twitter....I think if I were you, I'd CSD it as promo. Schools are only exempt from A7. Have you looked at its "what links here" for clues as to possible sources? John from Idegon (talk) 10:49, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

Many thanks, will do. Thanks for your redirect advice also, very helpful. Tacyarg (talk) 23:13, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

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Highland Park High School Notable Alumni Chanege

Hi John. I didn't make the change and don't really have a dog in the fight but am curious about your removal of Alexander Lavin from Highland Park High School (Highland Park, Illinois). As a pretty lapsed editor I'm not aware of current norms and it seems to address issues that you criticize in other comments on this page. Just looking to grow my understanding. [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Barkeep49 (talk • contribs)

Hi, Barkeep49. If you are a Michigander, we likely have something in common. I was a bar manager in Michigan for many years! I'm going to answer your question twice; a TLDR version and a detailed explanation.

First, per NLIST, ALUMNI and school article guidelines, two things must be shown to be included in a notable alumni list: the person must be notable and there must be a sourced connection to the subject of the article containing the list. Notability is best shown by a wikilink to the person's biography, but references showing the person is unambiguously notable are acceptable lacking an article. The guy in question had no sources linking him to the school, and 30 under 30 is miles from enough to show notability. It's been my experience as a new page patroller and AfC reviewer that subjects pinning their notability claim to 30 under 30 almost always aren't yet notable.

Since you've been absent a while, a more detailed explanation of the why of this should be given. I'm days away from my 6th anniversary here and in that time, I've seen Wikipedia overrun with blatant promo editing (not at all what I think you are doing, but just an explanation as to why everything is tighter now). With en.wiki being the 5th most accessed website in the world (the most accessed non search engine or social media), having one's name on Wikipedia generates a lot of Link juice, a factor very important for the hottest marketing tool around, Search engine optimization. Hence, the community has become much more selective about of whom we speak. To paraphrase the Oldsmobile ad, this isn't your father's Wikipedia anymore; it's decidedly different than the Wikipedia from the double oughts, and even from the first 3 years of this decade. John from Idegon (talk) 02:03, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the thoughtful response and context. It was some promo stuff that enticed me to edit again. And no, my pseudonym comes from an AOL SN I made for a chat room when I was 12 (more than 2 decades ago).

Escanaba, MI

I saw that you removed the new pictures I added to the Escanaba, Michigan article, commenting 'Improper format, not in escanaba'. This is my first time editing an article, so could you explain what was wrong with the formatting? Also, all of the pictures I added were in fact taken in the Escanaba, or are related to its history. I am a native of the city. Thanks in advance. Sdlamarc (talk) 04:59, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

If, as you say, you live in Escanaba, it shouldn't come as a surprise to you that Sand Point isn't in Escanaba. What's the issue? John from Idegon (talk) 05:02, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

MY mistake. And I see you figured out the formatting issue. I'll edit it so you can see an even simpler way. Sorry. John from Idegon (talk) 05:12, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Okay, let me extract my foot from my mouth. It's formatted perfectly. And a damn fine image! The article itself is a rambling mess, but your photo is a bright spot. Thanks. John from Idegon (talk) 05:15, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

No offense taken! I am just learning as I go. As for the rambling mess, I agree. I want to completely revamp this article as a side project when I have the time. Thanks again. Sdlamarc (talk) 05:28, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

PS: You may have figured this out already, but the Sand Point lighthouse is in Escanaba's city park. Sdlamarc (talk) 05:28, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Yea, I don't know why but I was conflating it with the one on the other side of the bay. Doahhhh. I miss my quarterly trips to the UP, probably more than I miss home (Kalamazoo). John from Idegon (talk) 05:32, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

School AfDs

What we feared is happening, users are now trawling school articles looking for ones to delete. You can tell these rampant deletionists this: Thank you for patrolling new pages. As a New Page Reviewer, you are expected to know our deletion policies inside out. Please see: WP:ATD-R and please note that this is a policy, not a mere guideline. Thanks. Change the wording if they are not NPR rights holders. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 15:33, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Sour grapes, Kudpung? The Banner talk 02:32, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

YW

Not done yet. After recent campaign re: "sister" and today's edits to CR nominals, broader interpretation of sanction seems worthwhile. Retirement has its benefits. 32.218.46.19 (talk) 21:02, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Accident

Sorry, I misclicked in the watchlist, and didn't realize i had done a revert. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 01:06, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Understood. I used to do that frequently then someone told me how to remove the undo button from my watch list. Sadly I don't remember how, but it may be worth looking into, especially if you, like I, frequently edit via phone. John from Idegon (talk) 01:09, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Fried Trout

caption=fried trout

Here is a fried trout, as Catholics traditionally used as a meat substitute during lent. BillHPike (talk, contribs) 03:25, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks....me and mini me are going to the local Catholic Church for Friday fish this week. They serve cod, but it's still good. I appreciate your sense of irony. John from Idegon (talk) 03:31, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Berrien County, Georgia

Hi, I was de-orphaning Rebel Regiment, and found the reference to it on the Berien County page. The existing reference was an in-line external link, and broken, so I replaced it with a wikilink to the previously orphaned article. If the external link had worked I'd have moved it to the bottom as an external link or converted it to a reference. On your reversion you said that it was a violation of the external link policy, but I thought I was actually following it, would you be able to clarify? Thanks! Gibbja (talk) 05:47, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

No external links are allowed in the body of any article. The only place they are allowed is in the external link section. John from Idegon (talk) 05:57, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

OK, that was my understanding. But your revert appears to have done exactly that, i.e. put an external link back into the body of the article? However, I see you have now deleted that section in its entirety, which makes the issue moot.Gibbja (talk) 10:46, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

CMHS

Hi John Was wondering if the new Costa Mesa High School page looks better now. Tried to add all 3rd party sources (though the Flight 255 memorial might not be very good source), and tried to add a source to (almost) every sentence. Still working on adding some things, but how does it look so far? (Sorry about not keeping neutral view before, I just don't expect anyone other than students and parents to read that article lol) Coolnerde (talk) 05:53, 25 February 2018 (UTC) You just changed the page again, citing the school website. According to you, this wasn't a legitimate source, and if looking fully, you can find the MS Principal. The school nickname is not "Mustangs" but it is their mascot. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Coolnerde (talk • contribs) 06:19, 25 February 2018 (UTC) Ok, so reading the edits made to Costa Mesa High School can you please explain the ones made to Extra-Curricular activities and history? I've tried reading other school articles and seen an extra-curricular section that looked similar to the one that was there before, and it wasn't removed. I believe I provided sufficient sources for the sections. And for the history section, could you please explain what exactly that entails? If the students don't create the history, then there should really only be a "Campus" section on all articles. Thanks Coolnerde (talk) 07:24, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

What more about the history of the school does a reader know by knowing someone who attended there died in an airplane crash? That piece of useless trivia is probably true of every school on the planet. Same for someone getting arrested in the school. Same for a bomb threat. It's trivia, not history, and it is in direct violation of a pillar policy here (WP:NOT). The purpose of an encyclopedia article is not to record every tangentially related thing concerning the school. It is to summarize what has been written in reliable sources independent of the school in a manner to inform the world about what is important and different about the school. Sorry the girl got killed, but so did every other person (save one small child) on that flight. I'll guarantee you not a single one of them is mentioned in their high school's article. It's totally irrelevant to the history of the school. It is only important to the people that knew her or to a discussion of the crash itself. (And I haven't looked at that article lately, but in most disaster articles, we don't even list the victims) Further what you wrote about the kid getting arrested is a violation of our policies on biographical content related to living people (WP:BLP). Bomb threats are commonplace; there is one in some school somewhere weekly.

It's pretty obvious you are a student at that school. Let me give you a bit of perspective. The school I attended in Indiana lost 247 alumni in World War II. That is obviously far more impacting to the local community than one kid dying in an airplane crash or one kid getting arrested. But that isn't in my alma master's article here, because the same thing, in varying degrees was true for every school in the country. People die every day, sometimes even young people. That has absolutely nothing to do with the subject of an educational institution, even if the person attended there. History might include the year it opened; how the property came to be the school, the stuff you put under campus would be better as history. Where did the kids go to school prior to this school?

Please read the school article guidelines. They are linked at the top of the article's talk page. And remember this: if it is only of interest to the students staff parents and or alumni of the school, it most likely does not belong in the article. John from Idegon (talk) 08:26, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

And what about the extra-curricular activities? I've read some other school articles and they all seem to go about the same lines. Can you go further into detail on why that part was removed? Coolnerde (talk) 20:58, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

There are 5.6 million articles on English Wikipedia. It's only been in the past couple years we've gotten serious about sourcing. So ,yea there's a bunch of crappy articles. That is no reason for this one to be crappy. If an activity competes interscholastically, it can be mentioned if the mention is sourced and written in a way someone who has no knowledge at all of it will understand what it is. As long as the source verifies the content, we're not even too picky if it's independent. However, if any achievements are mentioned, you must provide reliable published secondary sources independent of the school and we do not mention anything other than top level achievement. That is to say we mention winning the top possible competition. We don't mention winning a lead in event. We don't mention not winning. We never mention individual achievements and we do not name students or staff unless they have garnered enough interest from reliable sources to qualify for a Wikipedia biography. Again, please read the school article guidelines and keep in mind the intended audience for the article is the world, not the local community. John from Idegon (talk) 00:05, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

My article

Hello! I saw that you declined my draft about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Jan_Lexell You also wrote that notability was not shown. Although, if you look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(academics) you will see that Jan Lexell both satisfy criteria number 2 with his honorary doctorate and also because he is a full professor at Lund University. Since criteria for notability is established in the text with many signifacant references from independent and major sites I do not clearly see why notability (academics) has not been shown. Could you please explain for me? Nimbo.lo (talk) 20:53, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

An honorary degree does not satisfy #2. You have not shown that he holds either a "named chair" or is considered a "distinguished professor". You've not shown any of the other qualifications listed there either. Just being a professor is not enough. John from Idegon (talk) 20:59, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

I have shown that he is a full professor, that is different from just being a professor. In Sweden there is no equivalent to distinguished professor but since a full professor is the highest academic rank at a university notability should be shown. Why would not an honorary doctorate satisfy #2? Nimbo.lo (talk) 21:03, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Ask the people who wrote the standard. A Single Notability Guideline like the one you speak of, is not a definitive rule. It is to be used as an indication that the sourcing exists to create and verify a reasonably complete biography. I do not see enough reliable sourcing to support an article. If your less than reliable sources and or non-independent sources and the material they support were removed, there would be virtually nothing left. Are you being paid to write this article? John from Idegon (talk) 21:09, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

No, I am not being payed to write this article. I am against article writing for payment on Wikipedia. Nimbo.lo (talk) 21:15, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

And why do you think that the references are not independent and not reliable. Some of them comes from university sites that are own of the government. Some of them are independent magazines and there's also one source that comes from sveriges radio and this is public service and should definitely class in as an independent and reliable source. Nimbo.lo (talk) 21:19, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

The university is his employer. That makes their site non-independent. I did not say all were, but most are. That does not mean you cannot use non independent sources to verify non-controversial facts, but they do nothing to show notability. WP:N and WP:V are two separate concepts. You must show N before an article can be accepted. Please study WP:N, WP:V and WP:RS and ask for clarification at the Teahouse if needed. Thanks. John from Idegon (talk) 21:32, 27 February 2018 (UTC)