User talk:JackofOz/Archive 26

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Les Illuminations

I think I agree with your change just now, but I shall ponder. Do not be totally astonished if I park the Riley tanks on your lawn, though I probably shan't. If you have time and inclination to look in at the mother ship it will be most welcome. – Tim riley (talk) 22:20, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

:)

Well, it seemed to me that the FP of the song cycle as conceived by Britten should come before mention of any balletic versions thereof - unless they actually preceded the FP, which I rather doubt. Whether the ballet versions belong after the rest, or somewhere higher up, is a moot point and I won't die in a ditch about it. Cheers, Tim. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 22:24, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Looking for appropriate title for upcoming article

G'day Jack, I thought I'd ask you this question slightly out of left field, but thought that with your allround knowledge of things Asutraliana you might have an answer. On my to-do list is an article on the infamous 1975/76 situation in Adelaide when a man predicated Adelaide would be hit by an earthquake, followed by a tidal wave, bringing an end to the wicked city of Adelaide, but I don't know what title to give the article. Titles like 1975-76 Adelaide earthquake and tidal wave scare encapsulate what happened but don't neccesarily roll of the tongue. Any thought of an appropriate title much appreciated. Cheers. --Roisterer (talk) 05:02, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

I remember it, but not much suggests itself. I can't find any dedicated articles about mass panics to model it after. The 1938 Orson Welles War of the Worlds broadcast is covered at The War of the Worlds (radio drama). Maybe check out Category:Prediction. Are you sure it's an encyclopedic topic? -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 05:09, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

There have not been any reports..."

Thanks Jack. I think the change was made by editor of Indian nationality, so maybe "There has not been any reports..." is normal for them.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Jtamad (talk • contribs) 09:00, 9 July 2013

Shakespeare music

Thanks for finding more things to populate that category! Any other writers that desperately need a "Music based on..." category that you can think of? –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 04:08, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

I've been thinking about it, and will continue to think about it. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 05:02, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

July 2013

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Commonwealth Of Australia

Hi Jack Thanks for the quick response. Just to let you know, your definition of the Commonwealth of Australia only being the official name of the country called Australia is incorrect. The reason that I parsed the definition was to illustrate the inaccuracy in the common usage of Commonwealth Of Australia. I thought that Wikipedia would have welcomed a clarification / correction to incorrect data. A shame to know that I can not rely on the information purported by Wikipedia. Regards Gary — Preceding unsigned comment added by Garyipatton (talk • contribs) 13:13, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

What you are doing is the quintessence of WP:Original research, which is BANNED on Wikipedia. You've come up with a definition that you created yourself, and that is NOT what we deal with here. We use secondary sources published in reputable places. As a very new newby, it ill behoves you to be making up the rules as you go along, then applying them to Wikipedia and finding Wikipedia wanting. How did you so amazingly quickly get to know better than the combined experience of millions of users over 12 years? -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 13:26, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Commonwealth Of Australia

Before you start making false accusations against people you would be best also to check your facts. My research is not ORIGINAL RESEARCH it is the very essence of the true meaning of the Commonwealth of Australia and provided references to sources within Wikipedia and external locations. So before you start making accusations (false) CHECK YOUR FACTS !!! - End of discussion 122.151.69.75 (talk) 00:59, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

OK, that is certainly the last discussion I'll be having with you until you can show yourself to be able to discuss things in a civil manner. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 01:48, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

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Franz Behr, Charles Morley, Charles Godard, Franz Behr

Dear Jack

You wrote in Wikipedia this: Franz Behr From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Franz Behr (1837–1898) was a prolific, but minor, and now almost forgotten, German composer of songs and salon pieces for piano.

Du You know some more of Franz Behr? I think he was married with Irma Nittinger? She was the first Orlovsky in Vienna 1874 in Fledermaus. I am interested of the exact dates and Places of birth and dead ob both, Franz Behr and Irma Nittinger. The marriage date was also very interesting. Can You help me? Thanks Alfred alfred.rizzini@gmail.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.144.192.156 (talk) 13:12, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Hello, Alfred.

I'm afraid I know no more about Franz Behr than is in the article. You seem to know more than me. I had never heard of Irma Nittinger before now. We do mention her in the premier cast of Die Fledermaus but she does not have an article of her own. I have established she was also known as Nittinger-Behr, suggesting she married someone named Behr. Also, Franz Behr dedicated a piece to "Fraulein Irma Nittinger", meaning they had some connection. I'd be quite prepared to believe that they married, but I haven't been able to confirm it explicitly.

What's the reference to Charles Morley and Charles Godard in your header about?

Cheers. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasant conversation]} 21:07, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Britten

Thanks for looking in. Where in Heaven's name did I get my spelling Koussevitsky from? I had it with the "z" and subsequently went through changing it to an "s". Most mysterious. I hate misspelled names, but I'm too often guilty of it. Tum Reilly (talk) 18:41, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Mont Juic is spot on! Permit two quibbles: (i) MoS: "It is normally incorrect to put quotations in italics", and (ii) at the end of "Movements" you might put the refs [7][4][6][2][8] in numerical order.) The article did what all such good articles do, and sent me straight off to listen to the piece. Bravo, and don't think I didn't spot your particularly wicked editing of my innocent name. Tim riley (talk) 20:34, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. I've now dequibblised it. Funny you mention going off to listen to it. When I write an article about a piece of music, I always listen to it as I'm writing, to get me into the mood of the piece; but on this occasion, even though I had the LP (Berkeley/LPO) to hand, I just felt no inclination to put it on. It must be 20 years since I've actually played it. Maybe I'll get around to it today or tomorrow. Cheers. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasant conversation]} 20:49, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Some stroopwafels for you!

Off to see the wizard? Sorry, couldn't resist.....and stroopwafels are indeed like lembas.... Lectonar (talk) 17:29, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

How lovely! Thanks, Lectonar. They'll come in handy to keep my blood glucose up, on my journey to visit my friend the Cornish Ogre.

Actually, I'm killing a number of birds:

• visiting No. 2 son in Canberra, who's just bought his first house with his g/f
• catching up with my Mum and No. 1 sister in Bowral and Mittagong.
  • I also plan to finally, finally, finally visit the International Cricket Hall of Fame. Back story: My folks moved to Bowral in about 1971, and when I lived in Canberra (1974-2002) I visited them there countless times (my Dad's buried there). I'm a cricket lover from wayback, yet never once did I manage to visit the Bradman Museum, which is now part of the International Cricket Hall of Fame. I even started its WP article last year. So now, finally, I get to actually go there.
• attending a close friend's milestone birthday party in Sydney, and staying with No. 2 sister there
• getting away from this god-forsaken hell-hole for a bit  :) -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 17:51, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker)Looks like you have a nice journey ahead. I wish you safe travels and I will miss your posts at the various ref desks. Cheers, MarnetteD | Talk 17:55, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks to you, Marnette. BTW, no issues with stalking; it's one of my favourite pastimes, along with eavesdropping, voyeurism and lurking. Not to mention rum, sodomy and the lash!  :) -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 18:08, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Do they always have to be done in that order or do you mix them up occasionally . With your interest in opera I wonder if you know the question that receives the answer "9 W." Its an oldie and a groaner. I think I first heard it from Tom Lehrer waay back in the 1960's but I don't think he originated it. Here is another Lehrer treat for your enjoyment. MarnetteD | Talk 19:13, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

It's ringing a little bell. Let me guess. A journalist asks Richard Wagner, "Herr Wagner, do you spell your name with a V?". -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 19:32, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Ding ding ding. You got it - though the way I heard to question phrased was "Do you spell that with a V, Mr Wagner?" Works either way - I think Lehrer told the joke while singing Alma though I am not sure how it fit in there now. Enjoy the rest of your week. MarnetteD | Talk 19:47, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

How synchronistic. Listening to Lehrer singing "Alma" was, believe it or not, what got me fully involved in WP. I remember exactly the circumstances. I was driving eastwards down Bridge Rd in Richmond (Melbourne) one Saturday morning in early December 2003, the Lehrer song was on the radio, and I realised that, although being a longtime Mahlerphile, I knew very little about Alma Mahler. So, when I got home I checked her out and got up to speed. A day or two later I registered my username. The rest, as they say, is history. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 20:01, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Wow. That is a remarkable coincidence and reading it gave me a tingle along my spine. Thanks for sharing the memory. I have wondered a time or two what it would have been like to be a student in one of his classes. I also wonder if, as the years passed, he had students who knew nothing about his career as an entertainer. Happy early WikiP 10th anniversary wishes! The "history" is greatly to this encyclopedia's benefit. MarnetteD | Talk 20:11, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

You ar too kind. Thanks again. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 20:47, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Kudos

I just wanted to leave a short note of appreciation for you contributions to the ref desks. You (almost) always seem to me to be the voice of good sense & reason. I enjoy your contributions. Thank you.

Seán

Stanstaple (talk) 19:37, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Wow, thanks, Seán. How delightfully unexpected. We Irish fellers need to stick together. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 19:49, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

New Zealand versus Kiwi

Hi, you may care to contribute to the discussion at Talk:Deaths in 2013#Adjectival descriptor for a New Zealand person. Regards, WWGB (talk) 03:59, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Mont Juic (suite)

Orlady (talk) 00:02, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Do not contact me please

I like to ask that you don't contact me at all. Deal with any issues of articles I have edited at the articles concerned and as I do not get to be on the Internet at anytime I like I really did not noticed the spelling of the former Chief Minister's surname. 220.239.167.151 (talk) 19:02, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Australian Prime Minister, Stanley Bruce

	The Original Barnstar
	For your excellent research and writing on Stanley Bruce who was a great figure, which the ongoing success of the nation of Australia bears out. You constructively contributed with two other main contributors to the Good Article on the historic figure. Well done! - Adam37 Talk 20:48, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

I suspect my involvement was minimal, but thanks anyway. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 08:37, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

I have a dream, too long deferred... (w/apologies to MLKjr & Langston Hughes)

Dear Jack oh-Oh! Great having backup from you on the FTM names query (Humanities RD) just now. Someday I hope I can learn to make that case in less turgid prose. Whatever progress can be observed in Western society during the decades since I was a feisty young feminist (early/mid-1970s), there's still precious little respect for "women's work" nor for the men (of any orientation) who engage in it. Not to mention (well...) other related injustices. I do see some progress, frustratingly slow however it be. We can hope that gains in tolerance will triumph over bigotry and bullying, and so level the playing field for all. Can't happen too soon! -- Cheers, Deborahjay (talk) 22:29, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Let us all dream on, for without dreams, we have nothing. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:37, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi Jack, just meant to leave a pleasantry :-)

Thanks for your kind comment on my question here.

Keep it up, --217.81.189.242 (talk) 21:23, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, and you're most welcome. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:25, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

A question that you might be able to help with

Hello JoO. A question regarding the pronunciation of Vera Brittain has cropped up at this thread Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities#Explanation of phrase. I thought that, with your top notch research skills as illustrated here, you might be able to provide an answer. If not no worries. Thanks for your time and I hope that you had an enjoyable trip. MarnetteD | Talk 16:57, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

"Top notch research skills" - heh, I was just browsing Olivier's talk page and I read it there. It sounded like the writer knew what they were talking about, so I corrected the article. That's actually a highly improper way of doing things, and I should really be submitting my wiki-resignation and taking that gun on the sideboard on my way out and doing the decent thing with it. But I'm a coward, so that ain't gonna happen. I've sort of redeemed myself with the Vera Brittain thing, though. I didn't discover anything definitive, but I did at least search.

Yes, I had a hugely enjoyable trip, thanks. Six days with nary a computer in sight. I even resisted the temptation to check in on my mobile. I have a smart phone (finally), but I'm of that generation for whom a phone is still primarily, well, a phone. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 20:14, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Top notch and thorough as well! My computer was in the shop for repairs last week. The first two days I was antsy but by the end of the week I was catching up on my reading and relaxing to the music that old fashioned CD player. I was even able to catch up on this DVD set that I had received a couple months ago. All four operas were recorded at this outdoor venue. Then the store called telling me that my machine was fixed. Ah well. Thanks so much for taking the time to investigate things. MarnetteD | Talk 21:33, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

key

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x53jLv-RgaU

This song is in which key ? 198.105.124.127 (talk) 18:03, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

I do not know who you are or why you have asked me this question.

Wikipedia:Reference desk/Entertainment would be a better place to ask it. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:46, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Lists of runners with starting prices

What ho! I think you're right that the editing community at large should have the opportunity to ponder the question of lists of titles, à la Sir Alec, the shape-shifting Scotsman. You and I will be on opposite sides for once, but we can cope with that, methinks. If you raise the matter in a general forum please tip me the wink and I'll add my twopenn'orth. I'd be quite happy with a collapsible list of titles (Lord D, Earl of H, Sir Alec etc) but what makes me want to throw up is what seems to me the sycophantic lists of styles such as seen here with all the bowing and scraping bells and whistles. I mean, for God's sake "Master John Habgood?" God bless and save us! Tim riley (talk) 15:35, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

I agree, Tim. Like anything, this can be taken too far. The basic concept, though, is one I support. Genial and civil disagreement is the hallmark of mature discourse between respected colleagues, no? Would that other Wikipedians handled themselves as we do. (It's such a joy being perfect all the time.)  :) -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 20:08, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Just so. I've got a little list. Pooh-Bah, I appoint you Lord High Wikilist Checker. Tim riley (talk) 21:48, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Nadia Boulanger

Hi Jack - Thanks for your helpful edits in the NB article, especially the rewording of the first sentence which has improved clarity greatly. I noticed you changed some references to NB from Boulanger to Nadia in the Early Years section of the article. I believe that WP:SURNAME recommends surname only for all references after the lead? I'm keen for guidance on this because with all the different family members in this section there is potential for confusion. If we're going to use first names in this section then we ought to do it consistently throughout the section. All the best, pgbrown (talk) 12:28, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Wong

how does any one person "control" a democratic organisation? - Ruthlessly! Pdfpdf (talk) 05:22, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

a) I thought you had a sense of humour?

b) Did you read the supporting reference?

Ask her colleagues and university friends about her and they'll describe an intelligent, dogged, and self-contained individual with a knack for getting her way by being meticulously prepared, dangerously armed with detail and unrelenting.

Her involvement in the political scene at Adelaide University has already been detailed in the media. In 1988, an 18-year-old Ms Wong wrested control of the campus Labor Club from Centre-Left apparatchik George Karzis, a former senior Labor staffer who is now a special counsel at Adelaide-based law firm Norman Waterhouse.

Ms Wong was in a different Left faction (referred to in South Australian political circles as the "Bolkus Left", a reference to former Labor senator and minister Nick Bolkus) and managed to rally sufficient numbers to unceremoniously chuck Mr Karzis from office.

c) Suggest you read the supporting reference (which, by-the-way, inaccurately states she was 18 in 1988) and see if you can extract a more useful description. (Or, perhaps, find a better reference?) - How / why is that "really unhelpful"? You are complaining that clarification is needed - I've pointed you at the supporting reference which provides that clarification. (i.e. it explains what "gain control" means. i.e. as you commented: "that is just journo-speak for becoming the leader/chairman/president".)

As is usually the case, the supporting reference provides the clarification, so is the tag needed? Pdfpdf (talk) 08:58, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

In case it wasn't obvious, I am awaiting your reply. Pdfpdf (talk) 11:59, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Hi. Yes, I have highly developed sense of humour. That's not to say that it exactly matches anyone else's in every particular.

Yes, I read the supporting reference before I made my edit. It shed no further light on the area of my concern; all we've done is quote an uninformative sentence, and just passed the problem along to our readers. I said that I assumed "controlling" a democratic organisation is just journo-speak for becoming the leader/chairman/president. That was an invitation for someone else to clarify what the writer actually meant by "control". Because my assumptions aren't worth the paper they're written on. The matter is still unresolved, as I dispute your contention that "the supporting reference provides the clarification". So far from that, the reference created the obscurity in the first place.

What you did was remove the "clarification needed" tag, but without providing any clarification. That is why I said it was really unhelpful. Even in your edit summary you acknowledge that there is still lack of clarity (... and see if you can extract a more useful description. (Or, perhaps, find a better reference?). I just don't get how you can basically agree with me that we are lacking clarity, but in the same breath remove the tool whereby that clarity can be attained.

So, yes, the tag is still needed. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 12:16, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Mmmm. Fair enough.

Given that we both think that sentence in the reference is, at best, "vague", perhaps the sentence, reference tag (and your tag) should all be removed? (I see the reference is used in two other places where it supplies more useful information.)

Your thoughts? Pdfpdf (talk) 12:42, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

No need to remove it. The version we have now is fine. Thanks for the improved wording, which actually makes some kind of sense. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 19:32, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Secker and the list

I just saw your edit about Secker not renominating. With Neville doing the same, Perrett at risk in Moreton and Entsch at some risk in Leichhardt, events are conspiring to create more work for me at the whips list! Speaking of which, could you take a look at the prose part? It's almost ready to become the main Australian whip article (or federal article, at least), but I haven't done a grammar and general editing pass yet. I'd really appreciate it if you could point out where I've mangled a phrase or my sleep-deprived brain has left serious damage in the wake of cutting and pasting. -Rrius (talk) 18:58, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Wow. I learned so much from that article, so thanks, Rrius. A great asset. Just one or two very minor tweaks to wording was the best I could contribute. I have not checked any of the details in the tables, as I presume you've been rigorous in their creation, and your sourcing seems impeccable, thorough and wide-ranging. Maybe a task for a rainy day.

On a side note, I always wondered why, in a division, the Speaker appoints "the Members for A and B" the tellers for the Ayes, and "the Members for C and D" the tellers for the Noes. I was never sure if these were the whips and their deputies, or some other people nominated by the parties, or just selected on the caprice of the Speaker depending on their mood at the time. Now I know. But I still wonder why the Speaker does not just refer to A, B, C and D by their whip titles rather than by their member titles, in the same way that Ministers, Parl Secs, Leaders, Managers etc are referred to. Can you shed any light on that? Cheers. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:29, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, I was surprised there wasn't more. I do intend to go through the lists again. Every date has been checked at least once, some more. But I want to be thorough.

On the titles issue, I don't know, but it might (as so many things do) go back to the UK Parliament. In the House of Commons, the whips typically don't talk except to move motions (if you watch the Commons, you will hear "Whip to move" as the prompt from the Speaker to move things at the end of the day). Even then, it is recorded as "Ordered, That the House do X. —(Mr Syms)". It could also be that parliamentary roles don't count. When (in whichever country) the Speaker is in the Chair and the Deputy Speaker is speaking in debate, he is referred to or addressed by his seat. None the less, the whips are sometimes referred to as whips in debate, which has at times been helpful in figuring out who the whip was at a given time. -Rrius (talk) 13:32, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Re: Linkin'--

I am so so so sorry, Jack. I thought I was pinging the users. That won't happen again! Miss Bono ^[zootalk] 20:15, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for August 17

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Longfellow and music

Hi, Jack. I apologize for removing the big section you added on the page for Henry Wadsworth Longfellow regarding his influence on music. I haven't seen these kinds of sections do well in articles for literary figures. In the case of Edgar Allan Poe, we split off similar articles to keep them from the main page (see, for example, Edgar Allan Poe in popular culture and Edgar Allan Poe and music). I hope my revert doesn't come across as uncivil. Best to you, --Midnightdreary (talk) 00:17, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Following is a message I had drafted and was on the point of sending to you when I saw the above:

• pop culture list cruft ????????  !!!!!!!!!!. I also created Category:Musical settings of poems by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow. Are you going to remove that too?

-- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 00:24, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Well, yes, it definitely has the potential to fall into WP:CRUFT. The category looks good though. For now, maybe a section for "See also" that links to that category?

Joan Chissell

As no good deed goes unpunished I have sent you a pile of extra stuff by email. Tim riley (talk) 18:39, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Why, thank you, kind sir. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 19:29, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

August 2013

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• * ''Portrait'' for clarinet and piano trio (1975; commissioned by [[Musica Viva Australia]], premiered Canberra 27 May 1975, performed Sydney

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Edward V

Your amendment suggests that Edward's reign was confirmed by Titulus Regius, whereas surely it was the reign of Richard III that it confirmed ? RGCorris (talk) 21:35, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Fixed now. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:51, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

SG for Mont Juic (Suite)

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:25, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Wow, my first international DYK. Thanks, Gerda. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 00:46, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

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Chipp

Hi. I realise that "founding" a political party has somewhat loose connotations. However, the Democrats (a merger of two earlier parties) had been "founded" in all but name some time before The Hon. Don was recruited. However, as already documented in the article, folk chose the name after he agreed to come on board. That said, I won't be seeking any change—it's too trivial a point about a long-dead horse. Cheers, Bjenks (talk) 02:32, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for "chipping in". I wondered about this before I added the cat. I'm aware it wasn't like the party was his idea ab initio, and he then recruited others to join his cause. But he is very often referred to in reliable sources as "the founder of the Democrats", so, on balance, .....

Cheers. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 02:37, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

The trouble is that misunderstandings are often converted to "truths" in the gospels of politics. E.g., it's now taken as "common knowledge" that Don's founding principle was to keep the bastards honest. Well, I personally met him at Perth airport on the day that aphorism was born. It was in September 1980, before the October election. He said he'd had a media conference in Melbourne that morning at which a reporter asked "Do you see the Democrats' role as one of keeping the bastards honest?" Don liked the idea and, typical of him, repeated it several times daily on his barnstorming tour of WA. One day it may be easy to show that the words were never used before that day (nearly 3 years into the life of the Democrats), but the digital newspapers are not accessible enough right now. Cheers, Bjenks (talk) 14:36, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

Wow, that is fascinating. What posterity needs to know now is, who was that journo and why didn't he/she pipe up to claim the coining? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 19:45, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

This reliable source gives the date the first time Chipp used the slogan publicly was 19 September 1980. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 19:51, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

That is indeed an excellent source. I'm surprised that I never came across it before. You should add that to the 'further reading' section in the Dems article.

Done. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 04:17, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Why didn't the journo seek the credit? Well, his contribution was, in itself, commonplace. The memorability was progressively forged by Chipp and others. I could give you several other instances of the same thing happening. You have to have a good understanding of how journos think and operate, and how nonchalant the best of 'em can be! Bjenks (talk) 03:59, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

A job for my next lifetime, methinks. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 04:17, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

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