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Talk Archives: August 17 2006 to ...



Hope you don't mind if I made up a poll for your election on the AMA meet up tlak page. Æon Insane Ward 03:20, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Here is the link Election Æon Insane Ward 03:20, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Eep, this almost slipped by me. :-) Thanks Aeon! :-) אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 14:21, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Advocate availableEdit

) Computerjoe's talk 18:42, 23 August 2006 (UTC)


Ready to roll out.. --\/\/slack (talk) 23:05, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

AMA AvailabilityEdit

Hi Steve. Just to let you know I'm available to take another AMA case if you have one for me. Since I introduced myself to Zephyrad I have heard nothing from him but will not give up as yet. I would like to take another case in the meantime however. Hope all goes smoothly with your new home! Wikiwoohoo 15:45, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

The situation with Zephyrad appears to have eased but I will conitnue to monitor it along with Lars. Just wanted to let you know that I have accepted the new request. Wikiwoohoo 19:47, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Rogering UpEdit

Hey Steve I'm able to take a case since the one I have taken has yet to respond back. Æon Insane Ward 16:38, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Roger that! I will open the case and get a discussion going. Æon Insane Ward 19:45, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Available AMAEdit

I added my name to the list. --Tbeatty 06:58, 24 August 2006 (UTC)


Thanks for the welcome :) - I'll take a look at that page now -- Martinp23 14:32, 24 August 2006 (UTC)


Did it again. Hope it is all right this time. Thanks for the advice. MathStatWoman 18:05, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Available AMAEdit

I added my name to the list. Bwi410 10:35, 27 August 2006 (UTC)


Hi Thadman,

I've added myself to the members list, if such a worthwhile organization will have me. I've also added the userbox to my userpage already. I hope that doesn't cause any problems. Let me know what's going on. :) Happy editing, Firsfron of Ronchester 08:49, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

RFARB on UCRGrad in developmentEdit

Just to let you know, the UCR article page is currently protected and UCRGrad and IB have both indicated they don't want to undertake WP:Mediation, so I am initiating further data collection this week for the next RFARB, RFARB2.0, for which I've pulled the evidence from the current RFC and saved it on yet another user subpage located here: [1]. I truly think the last one failed mainly for a lack of due process, but we will see. I am not in a rush to do this, but will be working on compiling further evidence and developing a comprehensive statement through this week. Just a heads up--Amerique 23:46, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I've put up my preliminary draft statement on my afformentioned userpage. This request is definitely going to involve you and Aeon. just to let you know, I intend to file this next Monday. Best,--Amerique 01:02, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I've gotten the format of the next RFARB mostly ready to go with minimal further editing necessary. I would like to open the question of whether we should file this week to further discussion on my talk page, as UCRGrad himself seems to have suddenly become absent. Best,--Amerique 02:28, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

UCRG seems to have split. I've decided to join the AMA. Best,--Amerique 01:17, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Need to run something by you.Edit

Steve, the case you have assigned me has hit a small snag (Nothing bad). Please see the following (User talk:Aeon1006 and User talk:Iantresman) I need your opinion as all DR steps have been done by this user (Except USer RfC). Æon Insanity Now!EA! 00:52, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Have either of the disputants provided links to the formal Mediation and Arbitration cases? I'd think it would be wise of us to look over them both in detail. :-) אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 15:01, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
I have requested the ArbCom case he had. I need to see it. If there is any type of ban in there is whole issue could get more difficult. If he doesn't provide it soon I will go hunting for it. Æon Insanity Now!EA! 16:48, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Ok got the whole gambit from him. He as tried several differnt RfC's and MEDCAB case and he has a pending ArbCom case. Æon Insanity Now!EA! 19:04, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Since you have been goneEdit

Since you have been on off and on I have started to assign cases (not sure If I'm your deputy or not but steping up to the plate) Æon Insanity Now!EA! 06:07, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Being bold is a good thing! :-) Thanks for taking care of things while I was internetless over the weekend while not at work :-) אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 15:20, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


Hi -- thanks for the offer of assistance. It seems that things have *finally* subsided and all's well for the time being, though. Thanks again, WormwoodJagger 18:28, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


Blueprint Barnstar 2.PNG The Template Barnstar
I, User:Pedant award you this barnstar in recognition and encouragement of your work in creating several templates for the Association of Member Advocates, and other much-appreciated functional contributions to the project. User:Pedant 21:22, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't give out barnstars left and right as some do, so I hope that you value this as a genuine appreciation of your genuinely excellent and valuable work in recent weeks, including your efforts to keep on top of things during a busy period in your 'real life'. Thank you very much.User:Pedant 21:22, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Pedant! I really appreciate your kind gesture! :-) אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 00:58, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

User:The Thadman/ComplaintsEdit

New post there. It's been a month since last edit so I wanted to give you a heads up. I found it while investigating your user pager system so Icould improve my own. --\/\/slack (talk) 02:38, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this to my attention! :-) It almost slipped past me. אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 14:15, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

AMA alertEdit

Seeing as its September, I'm being BOLD and changing the AMA alert to another cause. Revert if you feel it's a bad change or if I've overstepped bounds. --\/\/slack (talk) 16:44, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

You beat me to it, my friend. :-) אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 18:04, 2 September 2006 (UTC)


Hi, I've joined the AMA, and thought I should say hello. Most of my edits are in the areas of religion and politics, but I would be interested in taking a wide variety of cases. Addhoc 16:49, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Advice on handling a complaintEdit

I belive that user FCYTravis is abusing his admin priviledges by putting a block on the Advocates for Children in Therapy article and Attachment Therapy article because he disagrees with several other editors edits and comments. What are the proper steps to take to:

  1. Report this in the correct venue.
  2. Move to get it resolved.

DPetersontalk 17:37, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Dealing with this type of thing is tricky. Let me see what I can do about it. אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 23:09, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I will add to this request and request an advocate for myself. Editor FCYTravis has rejected mediation, so maybe an advocate can help. I would like the Advocates for Children in Therapy page unlocked and restored to it's previous state and an advocate to help with the dispute on this page and on Attachment Therapy. Thank you. JonesRDtalk 17:04, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


What to do about this, if anything? I didn't know that this idea was present. Do know that there have been allies called by those in Arb who were not actually advocates but acted in that role (part time advocate was the word) to help their friend. \/\/slack (talk) 17:28, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

An "impediment" ... "Erp" was my reaction too. I think I'm going to see if User:Raul654 will allow me to pick his brain a bit. אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 23:12, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Template rip-offEdit

Hiya, just dropping you a note to say I blatantly ripped of your alert template idea for WP:WWF ({{WWF alerts}}.). It was just too good an idea to pass up. I hope you dont mind ;) --Errant Tmorton166(Talk)(Review me) 18:16, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Lol :-) Emulation is the highest form of flattery :-) Please feel free. אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 23:13, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
Good. BTW our version is pinkish, we wanted something manly. Oh... :-( --Errant Tmorton166(Talk)(Review me) 00:30, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Advocacy time limitEdit

Hi, I've asked for a response from my avdocee's "opponent" about my proposed plans, and for his input. How long should I wait for a reply before allowing it to stal the whole process? Is there a time after which I should just carry on regardless? Thanks Martinp23 20:28, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

If they do not respond to you or anyone else, but still continue to cause problems disruptively, the situation may be able to be handled as vandalism. Could you post me some links to look at so I can see what they are up to? I'll be able to form a much clearer position once I have a bit more context. אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 04:01, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
Most of the input from the advocee, and the brief, is at User:Martinp23/Desk. The case is related to one chagne to an article, challenged by the advocee, but the challenge has not been replied to (but the opponent only rarely logs on (last time was 4th Sept, the date of the "incident"). Thanks Martinp23 08:54, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
The problem seems to have solved itself now - thanks :) Martinp23 09:56, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

ACT disputeEdit

I feel that you ought to be reading both sides of the dispute, so here's my 2 cents. The alleged "abuse of admin powers" refers to an edit I made to place the "See also" section back in the article, a section that DPeterson himself has repeatedly asked to be put in the article. I agreed to drop my objections to that section, and replaced it in a good-faith gesture to show that I am interested in coming to an agreement. The section was at that point wholly uncontroversial, as I was the only objecting party. DPeterson then said the action constituted "admin abuse" at which point I reverted myself to the protected status quo. I find absolutely nothing abusive about making a peace offering in an effort to defuse the dispute by resolving one of the points of contention in DPeterson's favor.

As for the "poll consensus," it consists of four users, all of whom have virtually no edits outside their walled garden of ACT and "attachment therapy" related articles. Even if there were 40 users, no "poll" can override WP:NPOV, WP:V and WP:RS, all of which are violated by the paragraph in question. Read it in its entirety -it's clearly intended to cast aspersions on ACT and paint a picture of the group as a fringe group of kooks - which would be fine, if there were any reliable sources which called them fringe kooks. There are none provided, so we cannot make them up out of whole cloth just because they don't have the AMA stamp of approval on their documents. For example, our article about Aspies For Freedom contains no references to being "endorsed" or "not endorsed" by any group. Why would ACT need to be "endorsed" by someone else? Heck, I bet that the American Dental Association doesn't endorse ACT - shall we put that in? Damn, I haven't heard anywhere where the Department of Homeland Security has endorsed ACT - clearly that must mean they're terrorists, right? You see where this goes.

All I ask is that DPeterson cite facts, not "guilt by association" tactics. If the group is not mainstream, there's a source that says so, right? Anything else is a clear attempt to draw inferences of alleged facts not in evidence. FCYTravis 01:56, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Much of what you point out above is accurate, but I would add a couple of points:
1.Advocates for Children in Therapy, by its mission statement and other material on its website, clearly says that it intends to influence such professional groups (not the ADA, but mental health ones). As a different example, ACT sent a letter to the Association for The Treatment and Training in the Attachment of Children...but had no impact on that group (letter is on the ACT website).
2. A suggestion to make the section acceptable to you (or agree to mediation) might be more productive than wholesale deletion.
3. I think it is more than four (4) in the poll and as I read their "user contributions" pages, they have material on various pages, not just ACT or "attachment therapy" related pages.
DPetersontalk 11:20, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
At any rate, the page protection is what's keeping the edit war from flaring up, and it's keeping both of us talking. I think it's doing quite a bit of good. If it gets removed, we'll be right back where we started, in an edit war. I don't want that. FCYTravis 16:22, 8 September 2006 (UTC)


Firstoff, if I were ready to hear your side of things I would have inquired about it, so there really was no need to "pre-empt" me (although I appreciate the willingness). :-) As things are, I am still sorting out what my Advocee has brought to my attention.

Secondly, I understand that changing the page back was intended as a peace offering, however its reception was not as you had hoped. This everyone can work through, despite it did treading on many toes. Once a page protection is made, the article is supposed to be on a complete freeze until the issue is resolved, and in the editors' frustration over the issue, utilizing your priviledges to make an edit above the block brought that frustration to a head. Again, best intentions (I don't doubt that), but things were far too charged at that point.

Third, you are correct that "nothing can override WP:NPOV, WP:V and WP:RS," however it is consensus that decided on those policies, and it is common sense (note: "common"; shared) that decides how they are interpreted and enforced. This is why in the Dispute Resolution Process all steps include bringing more people into the matter to determine consensus (and in the final step of Arbitration, to enforce it). If there is a problem over reaching an agreement, and you are not satisfied with the results, the rest of the steps of WP:DR should have been followed. With this in mind and in retrospect, a better "good faith" movement would have been accepting the invitation to Mediation.

Fourth, due to my personal experience in several fields that are like this, I must disagree with one of your points. If a group is fringe, it is a crapshoot in certain fields whether or not the mainstream gives them -any- mention at all. In the field of Aramaic Primacy, the vast majority of the internet movement is pseudoscience, and in personal conversation serious Aramaic scholars say as much. But since when has Maurice Casey or Geza Vermes published in a book, "the works of George M. Lamsa are not fit for toilet paper"? As a larger example, the APA operates in a similar fashion: They cannot publish works on every group. As a result, the only way to determine if something is "mainstream" to a movement, is to look and see if the group coinsides with what is currently published, as well as see if other published bodies within the field endorse them (hence why the ADA or Homeland Security would be inappropriate), and if so in what light. If not However, I personally believe that:

"Advocates for Children in Therapy is not recognized nor accepted by the American Medical Association (, American Psychological Association (, American Psychiatric Association (, National Association of Social Workers (, or any other large professional organizations. Those large, well-respected professional organizations do seek input from various groups, but not from Advoctes for Children in Therapy. As such ACT is not part of the mainstream mental health professional community and its advice is not sought by these groups, although ACT does attempt to influence such groups; "ACT works to mobilize parents, professionals, private and governmental regulators, prosecutors, juries, and legislators" [1]"

is a tiny bit much. The wording of this I will be discussing with my Advocee, but between the both of you (and whatever other parties involved) a consensus needs to be reached.

אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 14:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

The only thing we can truly say in an NPOV way is that these groups have not taken a position on ACT's work. I can agree to a statement to that effect. "The AMA, APA, etc. have not taken a position on ACT's work." That is neutral, doesn't imply anything, simply states facts. As for mediation, I believe this is an issue of potential libel and POV-pushing, which is not a subject to mediate, but instead should be taken directly to ArbCom. FCYTravis 15:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
A content dispute (which is what this is) usually cannot be taken directly to ArbCom without formal Mediation first or will generally be unsuccessful (I've seen few exceptions). The purpose of each step of WP:DR is to prevent escalation up to ArbCom and stop WP:DR comittees from getting topheavy with requests. "The AMA, APA, etc. have not taken a position on ACT's work." I'm certain be a too brief for my Advocee, but I think it may be a start towards finding common ground. אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 15:55, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
I have previously taken content disputes relating to potential libel and NPOV issues directly to ArbCom, with a successful result that prevented POV from being injected by an personally involved party. I have confidence that ArbCom understands, respects and defends our clear-cut policies regarding unsourced negative material. I have no similar such confidence in mediation. FCYTravis 16:22, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
First, I really appreciate FCYTravis making a suggestion as as compromise. I remain hopeful that a good result can be achieved. So, thank you. I would like to see more detail added. Maybe something like the following:
"The American Medical Association (, American Psychological Association (, American Psychiatric Association (, National Association of Social Workers (, nor any other large professional organization has taken a public position regarding ACT. Those large, well-respected professional organizations do seek input from various groups, but not from Advoctes for Children in Therapy. As such ACT is not part of the mainstream mental health professional community, although ACT does attempt to influence such groups; "ACT works to mobilize parents, professionals, private and governmental regulators, prosecutors, juries, and legislators" [1]"
What I've tried to do is remove the language that you feel is not NPOV and still provide sufficient detail for the reader. regards. DPetersontalk 17:04, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
We cannot say they're not part of the mainstream mental health professional community. We cannot say "those large, well-respected organizations do seek input... but not from" ACT. We don't have sources that say any of that. We can say "ACT works to influence professional organizations, but XYZ groups have not taken a public position regarding ACT." Those are verifiable facts. Let the reader decide what they want to think based on those available, sourceable facts. FCYTravis 18:18, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
Why can't we say that, "those large, well-respected organizations do seek input... but not from ACT?" It is verifiable in that if you go to the websites of those organizations you will see that they secure input from many groups and not ACT.?DPetersontalk 19:02, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
Show me the URL for a Web page that explicitly says "We don't take input from ACT." Or, show me a statement from a group spokesman saying "We don't take input from ACT." That is the only way such a claim is verifiable. Furthermore, using the term "well-respected organization" is an opinion that acts to cast ACT in a negative light - the absence of such wording attached to ACT implies that they aren't well-respected. Which, again, is an unsourced opinion. We can't factually define whether or not ACT is "well-respected." We can factually define that XYZ groups have not taken public positions on ACT or its goals. Let the readers decide what the verifiable facts mean - our job is not to interpret them, only to objectively and verifiably distill them. If there is a group which has publicly objected to ACT's theories, let's include their claims, and ACT's response. Let the readers decide who to believe and let the facts speak for themselves. FCYTravis 20:23, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

This has become quite the dispute! I don't think a site has to say that they don't take input explicitly. The fact that the sites I've looked at do mention and use other groups and not ACT really does speak for itself. I think you are distinction here without a difference. The groups don't need to say what you are requring them to say for the statement to be a fact. In addition, the groups are well-respected. By your standards, every word...or at least every sentance in every article must have a source and a citation and a reference...I see nothing in Wikipedia policies to suggest what you seem to feel is required. As I've said elsewhere, I do think mediation would be a good course of action at this point. Dr. Becker-Weidman Talk 02:25, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

No, it doesn't speak for itself. You're drawing an inference, not stating a fact. It is a fact that we have no statements regarding ACT from these organizations. Hence, we can say for a fact that these organizations have taken no position on ACT's theories. That is not the same as saying they have taken no input from ACT. We don't know that. We don't know if they've collaborated in the past (you know, there is a time before everything was on the Web), or if these groups might support similar aims, but not in the same way, we don't know how ACT has attempted to do what it says it does. We absolutely do need a source and a citation for every sentence in every article. That is the essence of our reliable sourcing and verifiability policies. Everything that Wikipedia states must be either a sourced and cited fact, or if it is an opinion, that opinion must have been said before, by another reliable source. We have no sources that say "these organizations don't take input." We can, so far as I can determine, conclude that there are no statements from these organizations regarding ACT. Therefore, we may report that as a fact. We cannot conclude, indisputably, that the vague "no input" claim is true. Therefore, either source it or it doesn't belong on Wikipedia. As for "well-respected," I've explained over and over again that it is a meaningless term which serves only to create the unacceptable implication that ACT is somehow not "well-respected." Therefore, it doesn't belong in the paragraph. FCYTravis 03:27, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
So where have things progressed from here? אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 14:30, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
Nowhere. I have heard nothing else from any disputing party. In fairness, I believe DPeterson said he would be away until Monday. FCYTravis 18:42, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
The article was unprotected by the protecting admin, and I've inserted both the non-disputed See also section and the non-disputed "groups such as APA, NASW, have not taken positions on ACT's work." I hope that this will satisfactorily resolve the issue. FCYTravis 20:29, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Regarding "mainstream," I further note that such phrasing is specifically deprecated by Wikipedia's avoid weasel words guideline. To quote from the guideline:

"Weasel words are words or phrases that seemingly support statements without attributing opinions to verifiable sources. Weasel words give the force of authority to a statement without letting the reader decide if the source of the opinion is reliable. If a statement can't stand on its own without weasel words, it lacks neutral point of view; either a source for the statement should be found, or the statement should be removed."

"Mainstream" is included in a non-comprehensive list of those weasel words - "mainstream scientists say." It follows, then, that calling a group "not in the mainstream" is equally weasely.

That's all there is to it. Either find a statement from an organization that says ACT is "not mainstream" so we can source it and report it as their opinion, or it doesn't belong in the article. It's not a negotiable issue. FCYTravis 21:18, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

But by definition, if large professional groups do not use material from a group Advocates for Children in Therapy that seeks to influence those large professional grops, but those professional groups do use the inupt of other advocacy groups, then ACT is not part of the mainstream. RalphLendertalk 18:14, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

You keep saying "by definition." That's not how Wikipedia works. We do not work on implications, insinuations or definitions. We work on reliable sources which can be verified. Find a source which says ACT is not part of the mainstream. Otherwise, it stays out. That's quite literally all there is to it. FCYTravis 20:47, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
On this point I think I agree with you, but let me seek some clarification, ok? The statement "Act is not part of the mainstream..." is a conclusion. I think we both would agree with that, yes? Are you saying that articles must never have conclusions, unless there is a source cited? If that is Wikipedia policy, then so be it and I would then certainly agree that such a statement should not be in the article. Yes? DPetersontalk 22:05, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
That is correct. We cannot come to any conclusions without citing a source for that conclusion - and even then, we must clearly state that it is an opinion of ABC, and then present any relevant and significant opposing opinions from XYZ. FCYTravis 00:46, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Request fo help.Edit

I ask for assistance as to the behaviour of user:

The article is White people, a very controversial article. I have made a contribution in the North African influnce section (Genetic influences) He has also made his contributions. I am not agaisnt his contributions. I have reminded him about Wiki pillar number 2, that all points of view have the right to be commented and cited in controversial articles, if they are based on Verifiable and Reputable sources. I base my contribution on an 2004 article published by Oxford University Press. He has tried to attack the validity of the article first, then he has attacked me personally, and so on. You can see that on the discussion page. He just will keep deleting my contribution. Thanks. Veritas et Severitas 18:16, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Deputy Co-ordinator positionEdit

Hi Steve. I have been absent from Wikipedia for the past two weeks and have only just checked the AMA page. I am very pleased that I have been elected (or is it selected) to the position of joint deputy to you along with Aeon1006 and thank you for choosing me. Is there an exact task I could do to help you now? I read through the archive of the past month's meeting and saw the mentions of a possible complaints procedure. Would you perhaps like me to begin a page of the complaints procedure, though without making it official as yet? I could work on it as a subpage to my userpage and that way others could add and remove parts until it reached a satisfactory level where it could 'go live'. This is just a suggestion, other than that I am happy to help you where required. Thanks again. Wikiwoohoo 14:41, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

That sounds like a good idea to start. I've been starting something along those lines with the new AMARQ page which will ease complaints, quantify them, and then help us decide what action to take via an outgoing survey (Wikipedia:AMA_Requests_for_Assistance/Webform#Followup:). Perhaps it is time for a second set of eyes to look over what I've done so far :-) אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 14:28, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
Kind of curious my self. Mostly I have been assigning cases and investagating the odd requests that come through. Æon Insanity Now!EA! 18:57, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
Aeon, you've been doing an awesome job and really saving my skin. :-) As of late I've been embroiled with Advocating Advocates, dealing with complaints, and working on the new AMARQ page (which should launch rather soon). Keep up the good work with assigning the cases. :-) אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 14:28, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I will just to give you a heads up and to turn away a case (The request was made in bad Faith) but so far things haave been going smoothly. Æon Insanity Now!EA! 03:24, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Steve, I'm sorry to have to say this but I will have to begin scaling down my actvities on Wikipedia due to increased pressure with my work. I will not be leaving Wikipedia completely but have decided to no longer take any AMA cases myself at present and instead concentrate on making possible improvements to procedures etc. I've looked at the new AMARQ page and have to say that its great. I'll take a further look at it and work at assigning cases more. Would this be alright? Wikiwoohoo 14:48, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
Don't worry yourself over it :-) Even I'm feeling the crunch of this time of the year with new Grad classes to go to and a business to manage. When you're able to contribute, contribute. If you don't have enough time, then relax :-) This is a volunteer organization, so however you are able to volunteer is greatly appreciated :-) אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 12:50, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
It's good of you to say that. I'll do my best to help out where I can. Cheers! Wikiwoohoo 14:48, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

POV fork on Armenian Genocide and Denial of the Armenian GenocideEdit

These articles cover the same topic, it is a FORK. Also, the title "Denial of the Armenian Genocide" has a NPOV problem. There is a group of writers prevent the merging of these articles. Also same writers prevent NPOV of the "Denial of the Armenian Genocide". I do not know how to handle this issue. Thanks. --OttomanReference 14:30, 20 September 2006 (UTC)


Hey Steve. I know that your kind of busy right now, and I don't expect any kind of immediate responce. I was just wondering; why does the AMA has an IRC channel (#AMA.Wikipedia)? Was it something set up a while ago, then abandonded? It's only listed at m:IRC channels, and not WP:IRC. Maybe the AMA can put it to good use somehow? And if we do, we might want to add it to WP:IRC. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk) 01:23, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

The IRC channel was used once to hold meetings; however, getting more than a few AMA members on it at the same time proved difficult, which is why it kinda fizzled. It is a good resource that we can use, but as to how and in terms of practicality I'm not certain. :-) אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 04:16, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
Maybe some kind of hybrid-request system? Or does that make everything way too complicated? Maybe we keep it as a help area. Advocates can discuss cases with each other (since there isn't any advocate-advocee confidentiality, and everything is usually on wikipidia, so GFDL). Who's the operator of the channel anyway? You know, to set topic and the like. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk) 03:13, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
Hi - sorry to break into this conversation :) ---- Looking at the access lists for that channel, the only user with a level is "playe1" on level 30, so s/he's the only one with op access. Werdna is the alt contact, so may have the ability to set ops - I too, like Royalguard, would love to see more activity on the channel - I join it whenever I'm online, but usually I only have chanserv to talk to :P. Martinp23 17:08, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
I just thought of something. It probably won't be useful now, but in the future, we could run a bot to check when new cases come up (by checking the cat) like the helpmebot works. If it ever gets to a point where we're getting many cases. The bootcamp channel only recieves messages once in a while, and it has two bots on it. Someone should probably contact Werdna and ask if we can get someone in the AMA to be the one with ops access (for convenience reasons). -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk) 05:07, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
Ok, just an update here. Martinp23 and I have set up the channel #AMA-Wikipedia as an alternate. This way, we don't need to wait for someone else to get op access. Also, Martinp23 has gone and written a bot that checks for new cases (I assume by checking Category:AMA Requests for Assistance). The other channel was not working well for wikilinks either. Maybe this will work better for the AMA. We're just discusing setting up an access list for the channel (for AMA members, much like User:Essjay/Verifications. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk) 21:47, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
Excellent work :-) I'm nto a very big IRC fan, myself, but there's always a time to get back into it. :-) What exactly does this bot do, as of now? אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 21:10, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
(deindenting) At the moment, I've got it checking for new cases and reporting a list to the channel every five minutes. It also generates and reports a list when "!cases" is typed into the channel (and it's online (!)). Also, around every five minutes (which I need to change so that they don;t coincide), the bot reports a list of users awaiting IRC verification on WP:AMAIRC (so that we can verify those who are on IRC and in the AMA, and give them voice). Finally, it can give some more help when !help is typed. I'm open to suggestions for what it could do in the future... :) Martinp23 21:32, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
If you're happy with it, I can make the IRC bot update the number of requests automatically, every 5 minutes (when there's a change). It would do this by editting a sub page, which would then be transcluded onto the main alert content page. That's the easiest way to do it :) Let me know what you think - I thought I'd check that its OK with you before applying for permission for WP:BRFA running it on the actual alert - I've applied at WP:BRFA for permission. Thanks Martinp23 13:19, 24 September 2006 (UTC) See what I'm talking about at User:Martinp23/sandbox, where the number of requests is a subpage at /num.
Martin, this looks awesome! :-) Go ahead and set it up on the alerts page and I have an idea for a bit of my template jiggery-pokery to make it even more useful. :-) אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 23:49, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
Hi Steve, thanks for the barnstar :) ! Unfortunately, until about five minutes ago, I've been running an out of date version of the bot (server went down, so I ran the first file I saw on my dev PC - turned out to be the wrong one!). Anyway - thanks again for the barnstar, and please feel free to give me any suggestions for the bot - I'll do my best! Also, good work on the templates :D Martinp23 17:16, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Advocates for Children in Therapy DisputeEdit

FCYTravis has restarted reverting edits and forcing editors to provide [citation needed] for every sentance and statement. I really think I need your help here. He is the only one who disputes material and the only person creating the difficulties. How can we get him to stop? DPetersontalk 22:29, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I just noticed that another editor filed a 3RR complaint against him. Is it time to file a formal complaint against him with the admin group...or can you recommend another way to get him to stop (remember he's refused mediation). Thanks DPetersontalk 22:30, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
I do believe that he does have some merit in asking that things should be sourced; however, his methods I do not believe are the most civil. Let me get more involved with the page and see if I can propose a better compromise instead of allowing this edit war to continue. אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 22:37, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
Thank you. I appreciate it. DPetersontalk 23:04, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

From my talk page: Thanks for your observations...that quells a lot of my angst. I think what I'd like at this point is for the page to state, as it does as of this moment, that, "Professional medical and psychiatric organizations such as the American Medical Association, the American Psychological Association, the American Psychiatric Association and the National Association of Social Workers have not taken positions on ACT's work, although these groups do seek and use input from various other advocacy groups. ( ( ( ( ( [1][2][3][4] " Note: I put in all those links to satisfy FCYTravis, but don't really think they are necessary. However if you do, then that's fine with me. I suppose this is one of the central roles of an advocate; to present options and advice in a way that ends disputes...being a trusted ally makes those comments and recommendations much more acceptable. Thanks. DPetersontalk 16:33, 17 September 2006 (UTC) Retrieved from "" DPetersontalk 16:34, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

There has not been any intevention by FCYTravis on the page and the page, as it stands now, is acceptable, so I think it would be fine to close this case. Thank you for all your help; I am most appreciative. regards DPetersontalk 00:45, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
Alright, this is good :-) I figured that this case would be one that would require a certain amound of waiting things out. :-) I'll be sure to close the case. אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 21:07, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Hey Heads upEdit

Hey Steve Pendant is in a dispute, He may need an advocate soon. Not really sure who is at fault on this one or not take a look at my talk page when you have a minute and see what I meen. I'm trying to keep it cool in there (Unoffically of course since he as not requested an advocate yet) if you could give me a hand that would be great. Æon Insanity Now!EA! 16:26, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Alrighty, I'm looking into it. Thanks for the heads up :-) אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 21:11, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Joining AMAEdit

I have added myself to the AMA Members page. I figure this is the easiest way to notify the coordinator. :) Electrawn 18:26, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

re: undeletion request on WP:DRVEdit

Good evening. I've removed your request to have Antoinette Nora Claypoole undeleted as a contested PROD. That article has already been nominated for a full DRV review further down on the page. By the way, it would have been ineligible in that section anyway since the article was deleted as the result of a full AFD discussion, not merely a PROD deletion. Please join the full discussion when you have a chance. Rossami (talk) 05:19, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Ah, never mind. Now I see that you already found the full discussion. I'm still leaving the PROD section closed so we don't accidentally begin to fragment the discussion. Rossami (talk) 05:21, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Apologies for the late reply, was away, will provide a fuller reply later. - Mailer Diablo 19:04, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
  • In AfDs, including this one, what I mainly look out for is consensus between established editors. I do not really look through Ardith010's argument in length, but I would like to emphasise that AfD discussions can really get nasty at times, and closing on the side of the advocates' does not mean an endorsement of their views. And since it's going on DRV, I wish you all the best in getting the case through (haven't seen the outcome myself yet). - Mailer Diablo 04:17, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
  • That is what I figured had happened, but I did want to have your actual words to give to my Advocee. Thanks for taking the time to respond to my inquiry. :-) אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 15:19, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Your edit to Wikipedia:AMA Coordinator/QuestionsEdit

Your recent edit to Wikipedia:AMA Coordinator/Questions (diff) was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to recognize and repair vandalism to Wikipedia articles. If the bot reverted a legitimate edit, please accept my humble creator's apologies – if you bring it to the attention of the bot's owner, we may be able to improve its behavior. Click here for frequently asked questions about the bot and this warning. // AntiVandalBot 20:04, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

I was archiving, honest. ;-) For general note I've posted a short message to the proper talk page. אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 20:10, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Template:AMA Are you activeEdit

I found this while digging through what links here on the old Wikipedia:AMA Advocates accepting inquiries page. The template is almost a year old (Dec. 05), but by the looks of it has never been used. Do you think we should keep it and use it, or should we just get rid of it? -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk) 22:48, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Hmm... I'm sure that we can find some way to use it. אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 23:27, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Regarding Joining AMAEdit

I have also added myself to the AMA members list. Waiting for instructions dude. --Marwatt 11:30, 30 September 2006 (UTC)


It must be difficult to 'mediate' when you are only told one side of a story, when that story includes lies; I was accused of 3RR falsely and you just let it pass. Why? Enforce all Wikipedia rules or enforce none of them. Duke53 | Talk 20:40, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Duke, I did let the 3RR accusation pass because there was no 3RR violation that I could see or do anything about. The issue then became a matter of proper copyright tags, and when that happened, under both the spirit and the letter of Wikipedia Policy the image had to be removed. 3RR had absolutely nothing to do with that; never the twain shall meet. :-) If you can find the copyright information for the image and re-upload it with an acceptable application of those copyrights, then by all means please do so. Otherwise, the image was simply inappropriate, and Wikipedia is having enough actual legal trouble as it is with copyright violations and the like to let things like that remain in place. If there are further problems in terms of the article's content I request that you please leave "your side" of the story under Wikipedia:AMA Requests for Assistance/Requests/October 2006/OkamiItto#Duke53. There was no 3RR violation, so further discussion about something that did not happen would not be suiting, so I respectfully ask you not to focus upon it. אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 22:48, 3 October 2006 (UTC)


per [2] I feel i have taken the case as far as my current time restrains allow could you possibly hook up another advocate to it,ill get bagginator to drop by here, cheers Benon 20:33, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do. אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 20:51, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks to both of you.Bagginator 00:01, 5 October 2006 (UTC)By the way, the previous discussion was just archived here so the other link I gave no longer works, please use this new link.Bagginator 00:07, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Add Yahoo to check for copyright?Edit

I'm sure Google works most of the time, but for this article, Google didn't find an article and Yahoo! did come up with the site with the exact text. I don't know how hard it is to do, but it might be worth adding Yahoo! in the search for copyright violation section.

Of course, what you have already is very nice! We all want more, don't we? :)

Thanks. Skumarla 02:24, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Advocacy availabilityEdit

I'm available, but haven't taken a case since the forms changed. Can I just go ahead and take one, or should you assign me to one? (I'll be happy to take AMA Requests for Assistance/Requests/September 2006/Doc Halloween). TheronJ 15:15, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

At this point, go and grab one that you'd prefer. There are too many to distribute and not enough free Advocates. :-) אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 16:16, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
If you don't mind, I took the one on the United Nation of Islam already due to the lack of advocates. -Diabolos 22:28, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

This CaseEdit

I think we should just close it. User:MyWikiBiz has been blocked indefinitely by Jimbo! (see [3]) Plus you should see his user page. I don't think it's our obligation to advocate for blocked users, especially ones blocked by Jimbo. Or it would be better to have some kind of meeting on this (that would be a good chance to see who actually active still, as we have cases piling up with 5 or so advocates taking cases, you and the deputies excluded of corse because your busy enough). -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk) 01:21, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm very tempted just to close it as this is a thick book of problems that this librarian is not willing to crack open. At the very least I'd have to recuse myself as I personally feel that getting paid to write Wikipedia articles is unethical as a conflict of interest. Seeing that MyWikiBiz is blocked now, and also seeing how upset Jimbo is over this (regardless of situation, he doesn't need anymore stress) it might also be dangerous for the AMA to take the case. All in all I'm about -> <- this close to calling an AMA Meeting to discuss its implications as well as how it may impact future cases. אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 03:37, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Update on Template:AMA Are you activeEdit

I have tried to update the template to reflect changes made by the AMA. Maybe we should put this on people listed under Wikipedia:AMA_Members#Members whose status or whereabouts are unknown? I know you don't have much time, but I'd be willing to go through and do it. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk) 02:11, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I already gave a poke to all "Unknown" members when I first re-sorted the list. Perhaps we're due for another round. :-) אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 03:38, 8 October 2006 (UTC)


Can I join the AMA, and if so, how do I go about it? Do I just add myself to the advocates' page or do I need to await permission? I feel that I am suitable for it because I have been a Wikipedia editor for c. 1 year, specialising in history and politics. Although I have been autoblocked many times due to vandalism committed by users sharing my IP address, I have never been blocked in my own right. Can I join? Walton monarchist89 09:21, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Any movement on my case?Edit

Just wondering if there has been any movement, it has been about a week now and I saw that it said to wait 5-7 days. Thanks again for the help.Bagginator 18:12, 10 October 2006 (UTC)


Congratulations! I'm a little strapped for time myself but I will do my best alongside Aeon1006 to keep the AMA afloat. Take things easy and don't worry about things here. :) Wikiwoohoo talk 20:11, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Congrats steve! I will be away myself for a whil;e but should be back next week. Æon Insanity Now!EA! 21:12, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Congrats Steve! Take as long a break as you need. We'll all pull up our boots and keep things running here! -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk) 22:03, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Cases rising rapidlyEdit

But firstly, congratulations :). The problem is that we now have over 14 cases, and few advocates taking them (I'll be away for a few days, then will take on another). I'm wondering sif we could leave a "newsletter" on the user pages of all members, asking them to update their entry on the members page or take a case. I'll be happy to do this if it's worth it... (ps - this message is for the deputy co-ordinators too :)) -- Martinp23 18:30, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I would say that would be a great idea, if anything, so that we could see just who can and can't help, plus possibly who no longer edits or is on a Wikibreak. Wikiwoohoo talk 16:20, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Congrates also, Steve! I've picked up a few low impact cases, my dancecard is full for the time being.--Amerique 03:05, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
OK - I've spammed most members now, omitting the co-ordinators and Royalguard11 and one or two others. Sadly, for many, the last message was either an invite to the elecitons or a request to go to the AMA roll call. Martinp23 21:33, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

I returned to AMAEdit

(According to the AMA Hompage I must do this... although I'm returning not simply joining) I'm again an AMA advocate!... Any question I have about new things in the association, I won't doubt in asking you. Bye! --Neigel von Teighen 22:35, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Could use your helpEdit

User:Shotwell has been busy creating difficulties in a manner similiar to that of user:Sarner on the Candace Newmaker, Bowlby, Advocates for Children in Therapy, and Dysdic Developmental Psychotherapy articles. Because a question was raised about his relationship with Sarner and a sockpuppet was uncoverd by a mediator, he has retaliated by labeling everyone in the dispute a sockpuppet. I could really use some help here; an advocate to get this stopped. I think the mediator is over his head and does not know what do to...he's not responded in a while. I'd appreciate some advice, direction, and help...should this go to arbitration? DPetersontalk 03:24, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I truly apologize for not getting to this sooner. Are you still in need of assistance, my friend? אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 17:42, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Not a've been busy with a wonderful joy. (I have a few children). Best wishes to all. User:Addhoc has agreed to be an advocate here. It's a pretty complex one as I've described...but he has agreed, so that should work just fine. Take care. DPetersontalk 00:34, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Modest proposals for some sort of AMA case screening/rejection processEdit

It seems to me that we can't easily handle the high volume of cases while maintaining a quality program. It seems to me that we can greatly reduce the inflow of cases by setting some standards as to the cases we will accept. I was thinking the most obvious way of doing this would be to only accept cases that are obviously going to be or already are in some stage of the WP:DR process, which would mean a controversial restructuring of the AMA I know, but it seems to me that the multitude of low level cases that simply require minor "helping hand" interventions would be much better served by an organization like Esperanza.

We should also develop some process for notifying users who submit advocacy requests that haven't been picked up in, say 10 days, as having been declined by the AMA. New cases of varying interest pile up all the time, and it would be better to formally decline old cases we couldn't get to than to let them sit without action. Best,--Amerique 07:36, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I completely see where you're coming from, Amerique. It would make sense to put an expiration date on new cases, as sometimes I have seen that when an Advocate gets around to fielding an old case that things have already been resolved, help was really never needed in the first place, or parties were blocked or left before any help could be administered.
I'm wondering if there is some way for us to get a dialogue going with Esperanza to see what level of sharing would be doable? אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 17:30, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

There is an Esperanza page for proposing new programs here: Wikipedia:Esperanza/Proposals. I am not a member of nor have I ever had any "official" interactions with Esperanza, but they are listed on the WP:DR page here: Wp:dr#Informal_mediation. Perhaps at the next AMA meeting we could discuss with Esperanza members in the AMA what sort of program we could co-develop with them that would effectively promote our respective organizational missions. Best,--Amerique dialectics 22:03, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


I have put myself on the list of members, will see if I can help out.--Konst.ableTalk 03:01, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Meeting Soon?Edit

We've got a number of topics to discuss at Wikipedia:AMA Meeting (suggested topics). Maybe it's time for another meeting? It's been a few months. Maybe a bump to all advocates will energize us again. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk) 01:09, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, we are long overdue for a meeting. We should first go over meeting topics to see what we need to focus on, prep the meeting page by posting introductory blurbs like last time, and then start gathering together everyone's attention. :-) אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 17:33, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Closing CasesEdit

Hi Steve, I've been through the open and pending cases today, to see if any are ready for closing. I closed a pending case Wikipedia:AMA_Requests_for_Assistance/Requests/October_2006/wgungfu as it seems to have gone away after the AIV and a bit of a wait. I've left messages on two of your other cases:

Thanks, Martinp23 16:04, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Martin :-) I would have closed these a week or so ago. They're taken care of now. :-) אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 17:39, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
OK - no problem Face-smile.svg Martinp23 17:51, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


Sorry to come out of nowhere with this, but I thought you should know about this particular edit [4]. It appears that nobody has noticed and I wanted to make sure somebody was aware of what was going on. -- Gogo Dodo 04:44, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I am afraid that I am a bit at a loss for context. :-( What particularly about this edit needs extra attention? If you could articulate it a bit better with more context I will do what I can. אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 07:05, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps I was mistaken. Nathan previously took on an AMA case [5] where he wasn't supposed to. See User talk:Nathannoblet/Archive4#AMA. But if I am mistaken and Nathan is okay, then my apologies. -- Gogo Dodo 07:11, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi - sorry to interrupt here - I thought I'd better offer my input, having been involved with Nathan's previous case in the past, in Steve's absence. The problem which he was previously having was that he was not familiar with WP:DR - judging by his comments on his next case, I'm willing to WP:AGF that he has learnt what he needs to know - I, for one, will be watching the case. The general issue surrounding this problem is due for discussion at the next meeting, but for now, I've offered Nathan any help he needs (on IRC) :) The friendly AMA bot told myself and Royalguard11 that a case had been taken - Royalguard11 proceeded to find out that it had been taken by Nathan, and I'm sure that both of us will be taking an interest in it. Thanks -- Martinp23 17:40, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
See my reply on Martin's Talk page. -- Gogo Dodo 18:29, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
And my subsequent reply :) - you may also want to take a look at WT:AMA for what brought Nathan to our attention to start with -- thanks, Martinp23 19:08, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi (again!) - the case is now effectively over, and is just waiting for Nathan to close [6] Martinp23 20:57, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Courtesy "CC" just to continue the flow of the conversation. -- Gogo Dodo 05:29, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Advocating multiple sides of conflictEdit

Steve, Amerique, AddHoc, and I are now representing different parties in an ongoing dispute. See:

I think that's great, and am hoping Amerique and I can resolve the conflict to everyone's satisfaction, but I wanted to touch base on the Advocacy policy for that situation. Specifically, the relevant section of the AMA FAQ states:

If there are advocates representing both or multiple sides of a dispute those Advocates shall only communicate with consulting advocates as appointed by the AMA so as to create a Chinese wall between the differing sides of the dispute. When advocates communicate with each other on differing sides of a dispute they do so in a cooperative manner; however, their individual priorities are keeping their advocees' interests in mind while working towards resolution. Obviously advocates are only members of the AMA as an association, not a business concern, and members of the AMA are not otherwise in contact with each other and keep information that they receive from disputants confidential if necessary.

— AMA FAQ, "What is the relationship between advocates"

I've read that section several times, and I'm not sure what it means. Should Amerique, AddHoc and I only communicate through a "consulting advocate?" If so, who is the consulting advocate? Can we all post comments on the relevant talk pages? Thanks, TheronJ 14:21, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Temp Resign from Deputy JobEdit

Hey Steve I'm going on extended wikibreak (setting up a new forum, busy at work, and some of the general attitdue on the wiki is annoying me latey not sure why.) So I will be gone untill next year. Æon Insanity Now!EA! 17:00, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Meeting proposalEdit

Hi Steve. Just wanted to let you know that I have made a proposal for the next meeting of discussing my role and activities so far as a deputy. Since like you I have had little time available for Wikipedia recently, I would like to see what other members think of me and whether they may feel I should step down. I think it would be good to receive feedback either way. How does that grab you? Hope mother and child (and father) are doing well :). Wikiwoohoo 19:49, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Just joined AMAEdit

Just joined your wonderful project, I hope that I will contribute to my max and settle disputes between users. I'd be glad if you would appoint me to a case.

Thank you for such an opportunity, --GeorgeTopouria 11:38, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

New AMA memberEdit

Just to let you know, I just joined AMA. I've got a few Cabal cases going right now, but I'm able to pick up a few advocacy cases as well. I'll look through the new requests over the next few days and try to knock a few off. Congrats on the baby! →Bobby← 20:39, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Joined AMAEdit

I've added my name to the list of AMA members and hope to be useful to the project. I will try taking one request to see how it goes.

P.S. Well done on the baby. Trebor 22:25, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Meeting date proposalEdit

Hi Steve. I have listed a proposal at the talk page of the suggested topics page for the upcoming meeting to be held on 1 December this year. We've received plenty of proposals for discussion now and a further fortnight could give everybody enough time to prepare. If you'd like, I could set this in motion for you. How does that sound? Wikiwoohoo 18:33, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Aramaic fontEdit

I'm considering making an SVG version of JesusYeshua.gif. On the image's talk page, you comment that you have the font for the gray-lettered text "lying around somewhere". Could you possibly scrounge it up, or point me to where it can be found, so that I can use it? -FrostyBytes 09:14, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind, someone else made an SVG version. -FrostyBytes 21:03, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

AMA MembershipEdit

I wish to enter the AMA as soon as possiable. Cocoaguy (Talk) 23:54, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


Hey there, congrats on the birth! I've added myself to the AMA page, and it mentions that I should contact you in doing so, if you need to contact me drop me a line on my talk page. Cheers! •Elomis• 05:26, 4 December 2006 (UTC)



I don't know how to communicate to you. So I hope that you don't mind me leaving a message here. I have just started using wikipedia as a research tool and find it very powerful and helpful. I am just getting used to it.

I have a problem and a concern. It's just ran into someone who appears to exercise authority in Wikipedia who in my opinion is abusing the authority he has. It started with him removing a link I added so quickly that he could not have even looked at it. Followed by a threat to cut off my editing privileges.

What is really strange is that this was about a subject that he obviously has no expertise on or likely interest in.

There are two issues I would like resolve. One is important, one is not. The unimportant one is the entry I was attempting to make. The real important one, is whether this person should have so much power as to make threats and be given the appearance of being able to carry them out. And what other entries and people he way be doing this with.

I am not inclined to got too obsessive about this... but I have just never liked bullies... and I just don't believe that I am his only past or future victim. It's not always served my personal interests, its just that I have never been good at walking away from bullies... and too many bullies in positions of power are never good for any community.

I can be reached at cpartATspamarrestDOTcom. Would you be kind enough to email me. When I receive your email I will be pleased to provide you whatever additional information about me or what happened that you would like.


Curt cpartATspamarrestDOTcom —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

email address changed around to prevent spam -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 01:11, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I'll be seeing to this soon. אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 01:34, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Rotarian activity on Rotary international pagesEdit

Until now, there have been pages on RI coming from Rotary sites themselves. I have studied Rotary and introduced on wiki the links with German Rotarian activities between 34-38, the links with conservative politicians and the Honorary membership of General Pinochet.

For the moment, a new conflict seems to introduce with CeeGee, who declared himself has a Rotarian.

Would you be so king to introduce some kind of mediation ? Thank you. User PierreLarcin, IP in Lille, France. I have difficulties to signup due to sight problems+cookies sign-up pbm coming from French wiki

Thank you, Pierre

I'll be seeing to this shortly. אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 01:36, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Advocate for Wiki Spanish?Edit

Dear Steve: Can you designate an Advocate to help in a Mediation process in Wikipedia in Spanish? Our Wikipedia:es have not implemented yet similar mechanisms, nor arbitrations, etc. I have problems with several administrators (bibliotecarios) that are having roles of Judges, interested party and executioner at the same time. The advocate should be fluency in Spanish. Also, these administrators cannot obtain the 75% required to erase my page and their will erase it no matter what the result is. The history is long, but they are violating at least the right to the preservation of the honor and prestige of one person, which is a human right. And this is not the first time. Also, we do not have any mechanism to impose sanctions to administrators or any removal procedure in cases of abuse. I think we need your help. My user name is Tasc1 in w:en and Tasc in w:es. The page in conflict is w:es:Santa Coloma (apellido). I have to erase almost 50% and most want to erase most of the article. I have save a complete text in just in case. They have asked know for a mediation, but the mediator also said that he will erase the page if I do not follow they directives. The page is fully referenced, I think more than any other page in wikipedia in Spanish. It is true, it had and still has a little of research, but it is minimum and the information is very interesting.

If you can help, I will really appreciate it.

Kind regards from Argentina, Tasc.

(You can also reach me using my email).

I'll be seeing to this shortly. אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 01:41, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


Hi, that's good news about your daughter! All the best with that :) I'm about to add myself to the AMA members page, and I'm dropping you a line before doing so. If you need to contact me, I'm here. Cheers, riana_dzasta 16:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)


I'm about to add myself to the AMA members page, and I'm just contacting you stating that. If you need to contact me, please click that handy "Talk to me!" button in my signature. Peace. Out. Bushcarrot Talk to me! 00:53, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

AMA AdditionEdit

Hello! I've added myself to the list of AMA members. Please contact me if you require anything. Thanks, Hagerman(talk) 08:02, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

AMA membershipEdit

I was listed as an "unknown status" member and had been largely inactive since when I joined there was little coordination. I have marked myself as available and wanted to let you know. Am looking into the 11 open cases to see if/where I can help. - Jord 18:01, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

AMA todayEdit

Hello Thadman. I am just here to confirm my joining AMA. Although I am a relatively new editor I am more than happy to help in any area that I can in AMA. Look forward to working with you in the future. Culverin? Talk 08:35, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


Slim Virgin has reverted the content at [Political Cooperative] 4 times in the last few hours while I am trying to improve it so it won't be deleted. Pco 00:49, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

AMA MembershipEdit

Hi, just to say, I have added myself to the AMA list and look forwward to some honest work "Snorkel | Talk" 17:14, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


Hey Steve I'm Back. Got any good cases? Æon Insanity Now!EA! 00:39, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I have also assigned 6 cases to various Advocates just waiting now for them to pick them up. Æon Insanity Now!EA! 01:32, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

AMA membership requestEdit

Hi, i've signed up on the AMA page and look forward to helping. (Sorry if this isn't in the right place, I got kinda confused by your system!) DÃ¥vid ƒuchs (talk • contribs) 22:49, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Sock Puppet AccusationEdit

Steve, I received a message that I am being accused of being a sock puppet. I'm not sure what to do but I am not a sock puppet. I do not have multiple accounts. I need advice as to what to do here. Please respond as soon as possible. Thank you. Jtpaladin 21:26, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

AMA membershipEdit

I have joined AMA and willing to lend a hand to anyone in need. I am contacting you in accordance with the membership instructions. Best regards from - Tutmosis 00:16, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Joined AMA today and am contacting you as instructed. Please let me know how I can help. Best, --Shirahadasha 08:39, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

AMA =Edit

Joined per the instructions. Let me know how I can help. Regards, Navou talk 20:11, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


I have just put my name onto the list of advocates, I was wondering what I do now?! Do you have to accept me or do I just keep checking for tasks? RyanPostlethwaiteSee the mess I've created or lets have banter 00:43, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

AMA is back?Edit

Yay! I also see you're using some procedures that look surprisingly cut-down and mediation-cabal like. Will you be trying to keep the level of bureaucracy down, and the level of simplicity and speed up? :-) Kim Bruning 01:14, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Request for an AdvocateEdit

I am being harrassed at the natal chart page under the topic astrology there are three external links which are all related to each other, for profit companies that are saying the give away online free natal reports, first, online natal reports are not accurate, I have always given away the natal report free of charge which i laboriously calculate myself. My link is constantly being removed and the links to these three related companies is left. Robert Hand used to own and still profits from, he benefits from and has an interest in the three external links that are always left. I am cruelly being harrassed and it's not fair nor is it resonable. (email removed) —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

Referring to WP:AMAREQ Martinp23 14:43, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

AMA MembershipEdit

The AMA program seems really intresting and a great way to help wikipedia, I've decided to join. --Gary123 15:57, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Is it possible I could be given some cases to work on in partnership with AMA advocates who already have some experiance? I would feel more comfortable as an AMA if I handled a case as a junior partner of a veteran AMA before advocating on my own. --Gary123 04:36, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

The AMA program seems really intresting and a great way to help wikipedia, I've decided to join.Prof.Sadiq 17:15, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Hello there. As you may have seen on the AMA page, I have decided to join the AMA. I hope that my experience with social work and dispute resolution may be of use, and that my experience as a RFCU clerk speaks for my ability to be trusted with confidential information. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to MeNeutrality Project ) 21:25, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Please add me to current members list on AMA. Thor Templin 22:08, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

glad to knowEdit

another librarian & future Rutgers GSLIS alumnus. (or at least information scientist); perhaps you might like to work in this area as well--you can combine your interests and put in some short articles for religion journals (smile). OK if I borrowing your templates for reasons for deletion? I'm going to change the colors, though. DGG 03:00, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

AMA AdvocateEdit

I would like to become a Wikipedia Advocate. I would like to sort out arguments. Brilliance 05:02, 18 January 2007 (UTC).

AMA Request:laurenjf (reply)Edit

Hello, I contacted both users involved and suggested they attempt to discuss and resolve their dispute informally first. I'm a new AMA member and if it's inappropriate for me to contact requesters without having been assigned the case, please let me know. Also, I noted the contact on the request, this notation may also be inappropriate. Best, --Shirahadasha 01:51, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

AMA Advocate SignupEdit

I have joined the AMA Advocacy program - it seems like a great way to help new users who are facing a few challenges, or more experienced ones who need someone independent and outside of whatever problem they are having to assist them. Orderinchaos78 23:34, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

AMA membership (reply)Edit

I have previously benefitted once from an advocate's help, and after gaining experience, have decided I would like to similarly offer help to new users. I hope that my contributions will be worthwhile and helpful. Seraphimblade 12:48, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

AMA sign-up (reply)Edit

I would like to become an Advocate with the AMA Tuathal 16:01, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Nolan chart userbox (reply)Edit

What would you think of making a userbox similar to User:The Thadman/Userbox/PolCompass, but for the World's Smallest Political Quiz? Λυδαcιτγ 01:55, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

All done, I think. The math wasn't too hard once I figured out how to define the centrist square. Here it is: User:Audacity/Userboxes/WSPQ. Λυδαcιτγ 02:41, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

AMA debacleEdit

I want to formally address not greeting you with a response, and I am sad to see that you have left the organization.

I was the one who added in the line of our joining process to contact the Coordinator, and I thought that it would be an easy way to keep track of new members. Now, with the volume of people who join the AMA weekly, my talk page has been cluttered with so many AMA membership messages that a large number of them have slipped through the cracks (partially aided by Werdnabot regularly archiving my talk page). Since August we've undergone some extensive changes, and many things have been revised. If this one lapse on my part, and the zeal of other AMA Members' welcomes to a member whom they have not seen in action before has completely driven you away from the Association, please accept my apologies. אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 22:59, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your note, Steve. I understand that even the group coordinator cannot spend all his free time responding to queries, and know you are busy with many things. I bear the organization no ill will, and hope my comments on the AMA talk page alerted members to potential problems. Best wishes, Firsfron of Ronchester 01:10, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

AMA MembershipEdit

Just saying that I put my name on the members list as it said to on the joining info page, and now I'm ready willing and able to help out how I can. Jem 19:28, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Not sure how to get your attentionEdit

You may not know it, but I was the founder of the Association of Members' Advocates. I left some questions on the Coordinator's Desk page a few days back. I know you are busy but I think there is something that I should draw your attention to, if you are interested. Perhaps we could discuss it and how it might effect the future (or lack of it) of the AMA. I live in NYC and would like to talk to you on the telephone if at all possible (it won't take very long, I promise). Alex756 23:43, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Alex, sorry about not replying. Yes, I am well aware that you were the founder, and I'm glad to hear from you! I've been re-organizing how the Coordinator's Desk works, and have arranged it so that if one clicks the "Ask the Coordinator a question" link that it would start a new section on my talk page. I didn't expect someone to actually leave a message on the Coordinator's Desk page, itself. :-) Looking over what you did leave on the Desk, I believe that telephone might be the best way to discuss these things as apparently I'm ignorant of some very important things. I've sent you my phone number via Wikipedia's email function. Please call me as soon as you can (and I have a bunch of questions). אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 18:04, 1 February 2007 (UTC)


Steve, I got a lot on my plate, I will be resigning from the AMA this Sunday. Work, College and other things are prevetning me from getting on Wikipedia with any regularity. It has been fun! Go Luck and I will be back soon. Æon Insanity Now! 20:07, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry to see you leave, Aeon. You've done so much work to help the AMA that we're really going to be hit with a loss. Good luck with everything (real life always comes before Wikipedia :-) ), and if you ever want to help out again, there'll always be a place for you here! אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) 20:25, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
No sweat, will be be done with my Envrionmental Science Degree at the end of the month but I real need to focus on that. Will be back I hope sometime next month. Æon Insanity Now! 20:29, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

AMA New AdvocateEdit

I, Natl1 have added my name to the advocate list.--Natl1 (Talk Page) (Contribs) 00:51, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


I have nominated the following categories you created for deletion:

If you wish to contribute to the discussion you can here. Thanks, VegaDark 09:21, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


Good on you for standing up for our rights. Wikipedia needs more people like you. Import007 08:06, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Aramaic WiktionaryEdit

Shlama. Yes, I applied already. Hope it goes through. Chaldean 06:07, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

By the way, I'd really appreciate it if you could help me out with this; [[Category:Articles needing Syriac script]] (whenever you can.) Chaldean 01:19, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


Hi (have you seen our first AMA Team?),

Actually, I was representing Jeff. Anderson but, as we reached what we wanted (to strike him out of the Starwood arbitration), the case was closed and I'm no longer his advocate.

Ok. Matisse is a user accused of massive sockpuppetry in the ongoing Starwood case, as well as Jefferson Anderson was. The difference is that the alleged sockpuppetry of JA wasn't related to the article and my work was to ask ArbCom to not arbitrate him. The problem is that she has been asking for an advocate and, for some reason, no one works with her. She emailed me for advice and I resurrected her original request. That was the only thing I could do as representing another party in the same dispute. SilkTork took the case and I posted him this and this to guide him a bit as the case was, at that stage, a mess. From there Matisse began to suffer a dissastrous chain of events as far as I could see while advocating JA.

I can't comment on her past behaivour as I simply was an advocate and never involved in that dispute. The only thing I can tell you is that her situation on the case is somewhat desperate and that she's getting problems in communicating with her advocates... --Neigel von Teighen 16:33, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Celsius disputeEdit

Hi, I have a dispute with User:Greg_L over an edit in Celsius. My problem is less with the article than his intolerable, unsociable behavior. The user seems intent on provocation rather than discussion. His latest words in the Talk:Celsius tantamounts to a personal assault. In my talk page, he alleged that I have little right to correct an edit, citing my lack of an engineering degree.

Some of his comments borders on snobbish elitism. I do not want to be drawn in, but can you please educate this user on Wikipedia civility and democracy. His attacks on me are troll-like and is calculated at bullying and warring, not consensus. I stand by what I have to say about the subject. You can see if what I say is an improvement or a vandalism. This message is repeated at User talk:Martinp23. Mandel 20:09, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


FYI, I've sent you an email. JoshuaZ 22:08, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Dispute over Primal Therapy articleEdit

Hi, I am involved in a difficult dispute with User:Randroide and User:Proto over a complicated matter that, I think, really requires some legal expertise and independence from Wikipedia. I am also under a lot of pressure - so I would appreciate it if this could be handled quickly. --GrahameKing 17:45, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Joining AMAEdit

The page about joining AMA said to let you know when we join (sorry, I forgot about that a couple days ago). I have joined and taken on my first case but have not gotten a response from my initial message yet. Greeves (talk • contribs • reviews) 20:26, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

How do you find past AMA's that were open?"Edit

I had one that was open but I have no idea where it is or what the status is now. Also, I was named in a previous one and I do not know where that one is either or whether I am being accused of things there. (I only found out by accident that I was named.) There seems to be no way to find these, or I am missing the way on you AMA page menu? Thanks in advance for you help. My new Advocate has not been contacting me by email so I would appreciate some sort of update. Sincerely, Mattisse 01:29, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I've changed the status of your case from "Open" to "Under Investigation" as I familiarize myself with the case... and as you probably know, this is a -very- involved case. I'm almost finished reading through all of the material and consulting with the other Advocates who were involved. Once that is finished, I'll be able to go over with you the pertinent points that I feel need to be addressed for my better understanding, and then go over what you wish to get out of Advocacy. I'll be in contact soon. אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) • Give Back Our Membership! 01:56, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Where is my case?Edit

How can I find the page for myself? How can I get answers to any questions? I want to find out how I got named with the sockpuppets. This is how I received notification of my sockpuppets: [7] I am about to file a Request for Arbitration against the user to labelled me as soon as I can figure out how. I will file something tomorrow. He will not answer my requests. Sincerely, Mattisse 02:06, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

As I mentioned before, your case is filed under "Under Investigation" on our main page WP:AMA (scroll down to the bottom). If you don't see it, here's link directly to the category (yours is the only case in the category) Category:AMA_Requests_for_Assistance/Under_investigation. I apologize if my explanation was vague. The namings for sockpuppetry were most likely due to another party (I would guess 999) posting a notice to the WP:ANI, but I would need time to dig things up. Administrators who are completely removed from the situation, if given a list of apparently cogent criteria will act upon them. In some cases mistakes are made due to the person who filed on WP:ANI stretching the criteria enough (in a sense falsifying a report) to make it look as if the editor in question has committed a wrong when they indeed haven't. This is always a possibility.
As for your Request for Arbitration: Please take what I am about to tell you sincerely and to the heart: I have extensive knowledge about how the Arbitration Committee works, how much time the Arbitrators have in working with cases (they are volunteers, afterall), and what makes a case something that the Arbitration Committee is likely to accept. If you file an Arbitration directly against the user that labeled you (who is most likely an admin who was simply responding to a convincing WP:ANI report) without attempting to resolve it first with them, the person who prompted them, or through mediation (formal or informal), then the case will not get through The Dispute Resolution Process on Wikipedia works if you give it the proper amount of weight, time and effort, and in the end is far less stressful, judgemental, and less likely to impact you on a more long-term basis than ArbCom. As an editor in a bind, your best plan of action is to find a way to prevent these problems from escalating to the next notch in the process and resolve them amicably to the betterment of all parties involved as well as Wikipedia, itself.
As I stated before, I will be in touch as soon as I can. There is a lot that I must do to understand exactly what's going on and I, like every other editor on Wikipedia, am also a volunteer trying my best to help. אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) • Give Back Our Membership! 03:19, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

AMA (jgisler596)Edit

By that I ment that both jgisler596 & Anetode were violating the 3RR rule. Cocoaguy ここがいい contribstalk 03:36, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

If he filed on the basis of an ANI report then things are more awful that I ever thoughtEdit

In those days I didn't know when things were filed on ANI. I didn't know what it was. No one gave me a heads up. His posting came out of no where. I didn't know enought to defend myself. I have been perscuted ever since on the basis of what User talk:Rdsmith4 did and his support of eregieous sockpuppets. (He also supported a corrupt Admin who has since retired and used to hold forums on his page against me. Then he pretended to mediate Starwood (after a name change), although the first thing he did was post a "Mattisse Redux" on ANI to make a joke of me. He retired from Wikipedia for life, after I discovered his name change and gave him some questions to answer. "I get back with you on Monday," he said but then retired for life instead.

And look what they did to User:Timmy12 -- he pleaded for help and got none. In fact he was ridiculed for asking. We were both stalked everywhere he or I asked a question. The cruelness of this place is like nothing I have ever experienced.

It would be a blessing if I got banned. I am about to go off the deep end after so many months of agony and false hops, and I cannot function anymore here anyway. I feel like an idiot for putting so much of myself in trying to work hard and doing the right thing. None of that matters here. It's all about playing up to admins and being good with diffs. Wikipedia rips off the good work of people like me so the admins and sockpuppets can play their egocentric games.

This is a horrible, sick place. And that an Admin or whatever User talk:Rdsmith4 is can be so irresponsible and rude in something that has caused me so many months of real pain and anguish and ruined my relationship with my family -- possibly over something that wasn't even true. I feel sick to my stomach.

I don't thing anything can repair what has happened. Even if I did the worst of what I was accused, it was a pittance compared to what was done to me. This place is not for people like me. It's for game playing tech jocks who resent true seekers of knowledge.

I'm not minimising what you are doing and I truely appreciate it. But there is no truth, so many scams have been pulled by people sophisticated in Wikipedia flaws. I see it in operation now. I don't have the energy or interest to play those games and that is what Wikipedia is. There are a few fools like me that that thought it was about writing good articles but now I feel I am being used. I put energy into a good articles, so the admins behind the scenes can pull their tricks and have their endless arguements. It is perfectly clear that excellent contribution means absolutely nothing. Yet Wikipedia takes advantage of it and claims to be reputable. Well, they will get no more of value from me.

Again I thank you from the bottom of my heart, but I would be very surprised if anything faintly useful resulted. I think Wikipedia is far too corrupt. Well meaning peaple, the AGF foiks, have done me the greatest harm besides the harassers. They emable bad users. I've terminated my relationship copyediting fA articles. I feel used. I have lost all motivation. I am tired of dreading each day -- what awfulness will occur. Human nature is far worse thaa I ever imagined. And the worst of it is here. Sincerely, Mattisse 04:40, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

This has been going on seven months now -- what are you suggesting?Edit

Every day is agony. Sincerely, Mattisse 05:32, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Mattisse, I've told you that when I am ready to continue I will contact you. If Wikipedia is "true agony," the best solution in the meantime, in my experience is to take a short Wikibreak and I can contact you via email when things can proceed. I, personally, have a -lot- on my plate Coordinating the AMA, Administrating the Aramaic Wikipedia, being the President of a Web Design firm, a translator, a graduate student in an MLIS program, a father of a 4 month old daughter, and in the middle of trying to start a home business with my wife. I can only give so much time and effort to each endeavor. אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) • Give Back Our Membership! 15:31, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Steve, if you want I'll take this off your hands. Geo. Talk to me 03:27, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Joined AMAEdit

The page about joining AMA said to tell you when I joined. Hope it's ok, Thanks Oliver202 04:17, 12 February 2007 (UTC)


I didn't know. I am sorry. It is about a different issue, so I did not think you were covering it but I am glad you are. I truly was not trying to circumvent anything you are already doing. I apologise to you. Sinxerely, Mattisse 22:25, 14 February 2007 (UTC)


Sliha, ani lo mevin aramit. --fivetrees 09:32, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Request for closureEdit

Sorry to bother you with this, but all of the deputies are inactive. I'm wondering if this case could be closed as a gross violation of procedure? The AMA request was not filed by the party named, and the request itself pertains to getting an administrative action overturned. AFAIK, none of the parties named by the filer are planning on justifying the case with a response, and the original filer seems to have lost interest as well. I'd just as soon see it cleared so the advocates can focus their efforts on legitimate cases. MSJapan 22:47, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

To my knowledge, we have dealt with AMA cases where the party in question was banned at the time of filing; unfortunately, such cases usually do not get very far. What we do with it depends on if the user in question genuinely wished to open a case with the AMA in the first place and would still like assistance. Generally, it is a better idea to seek out help from the AMA before a ban is enacted. :-) אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) • Give Back Our Membership! 15:09, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
The filer has now stated that he is leaving Wikipedia, and I have heard nothing from the advocate regarding the user on whose behalf the AMA was filed. I think this proves that it was a bad faith process to begin with. MSJapan 18:28, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

AMA JoiningEdit

I have joined AMA and would like to help. Jhfireboy I'm listening 21:29, 19 February 2007 (UTC)


hI  I was wondering if you could translate the phrase JESUS SAVES from english to Aramaic

i would really appreciate it, thank you for your time —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk) 18:40, 21 February 2007 (UTC).

AMA joinedEdit

Hello, I've joined the AMA and look forward to helping.Blah0401 09:11, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Joined AMAEdit

I have joind AMA, and look foward to helping out, its a great idea.--RyanB88 04:22, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Just to say I have joined AMA Edwbaker 22:27, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

advocacy questionEdit

Hello, i'm trying to provide advocacy on the Newton Falls, Ohio article regarding a a content dispute between NewtonFallsLeader and Ruhrfisch. I have been able to contact Ruhrfisch but NewtonFallsLeader and NewtonFallsLeader hasnt made any edits since the 11th of this month. My question is how long should i wait for a response from him. Should i assume he has given up his dipuste and close the case?Blah0401 21:39, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

AMA joinedEdit

I've also climbed on board with the AMA and am looking to get started. I look forward to working with the AMA for quite some time to come. —Pilotguy push to talk 19:47, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Politcal compass userboxEdit

Can you modify User:The Thadman/Userbox/PolCompass to no longer add people to the deleted categories? I was going to myself but the code looks complicated and I don't want to mess anything up. Thanks, VegaDark 20:56, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Association of Members' Advocates/JoiningEdit

Hi, I've just joined the group, hope to contribute here well. --– Emperor Walter Humala · ( shout! · sign? ) 01:59, 3 March 2007 (UTC)


I just wanted to let you know that I have resigned from the AMA. I have no time left it seems to help out anymore. I may rejoin someday, but for now I won't be doing any AMA work. I hope that the AMA continues to improve and becomes a better organization to come to for help. Thanks Steve! -Royalguard11(Talk·Review Me!) 19:33, 4 March 2007 (UTC)


Hi there, after reading WP:JOINAMA and adding my name, it says I should contact yourself as co-ordinator about my involvement. Suffice to say I will read up all I need to, before I take my first case. Cheers Lethaniol 16:26, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

MonteBoesen caseEdit

It appears the article complained of, Boesen School (District 28), has been undeleted (it had been speedy deleted but this user's complaint counted as an objection invalidating speedy delete). Since no-one's proposed it for AfD since, wondering if the case can be closed since the users appears to have gotten the desired result from advocacy for the time being. Left a note both on both User Talk:MonteBoesen and the case page indicating the reprieve may be temporary and suggesting using the time available to strengthen the article with sources etc. if available. Best, --Shirahadasha 20:24, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. Still new at this, not sure of procedures for closing a case. Set status to closed. But not sure how to take off list of filed cases or if there is a list of closed cases it should be put on. Tried to find closure procedures in the AMA Handbook but didn't seem able to find them. Best, --Shirahadasha 01:43, 11 March 2007 (UTC)


I have joined and am happy to help. --Dweller 10:08, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I have also sighned to help he cause. Bloddyfriday 15:11, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

AMA notificationEdit

I have justed added my name to the members list, so jut wanted to let you know. I'm going to read up on information about AMA, and hopefully start taking some cases soon. Thanks much. Chickyfuzz14(user talk) 05:58, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Question about AdvocacyEdit

Hi, this is not an advocacy request. Instead, this is a brief question about making an advocacy request. The controversy I'm having is mainly related to a specific set of edits that I made at an article. The edits were reverted, but the reverter did not explain reasons for reverting many of those edits, beyond the uninformative statement that there was no consensus for the edits. This violates the Wikipedia policy that reverts should be explained. Is there a particular advocate who handles this type of issue?

There are other aspects to the controversy, but explaining reverts is the main issue (other issues include the refusal to allow POV of footnoted authors to be mentioned in the footnotes). Thanks in advance for pointing me in the right direction. I feel like an advocacy request is the way to go, due to failure of other efforts to resolve this controversy. I mainly want to know if there is a particular advocate who specializes in this kind of controversy. Thanks.Ferrylodge 22:13, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Thx for the reply at my talk page. I'll give the RfC approach a little longer, and then probably make an advocacy request.Ferrylodge 03:16, 19 March 2007 (UTC)


Steve, Regarding the last complaints from ArbCom, have you an idea to make this team more visible? I was thinking on adding a link to Arb-Team everytime we work in arbitration cases. Yours! --Neigel von Teighen 14:00, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Taking my first caseEdit

Hello. I'd like to take my first case and I'm looking for a content dispute to get me going, as I have experience of dealing with these (haven't we all). Can you recommend one for me? --Dweller 12:59, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, I thought I was taking too long to accept the case, but it seems there was no need to rush anyway ([8])! Care to offer another? --Dweller 12:45, 22 March 2007 (UTC)


hello. i added my name to the list, and it didnt break. i guess i did good. so i thought i would stop by and let you know. c ya. the_undertow talk 06:55, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I am informing you that I've added myself to the AMA listing. Thanks. -Cquan 00:37, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

ill take a caseEdit

feel free to assign me to a recent case, as i am disinterested in all recent (10) cases. i am confident i can act in a npov manner. the_undertow talk 10:51, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Big Boss 0Edit

Thank you for starting this petition. We deserve those rights and an explaination. 17:11, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi, about the wikimedia membership, I created {{User:Walter Humala/donate}} which you might find useful, since your sig links to User:The Thadman/Give Back Our Membership many users could use my template. thanks --Emperor Walter Humala · ( talk? · help! ) 05:46, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

The Insanity is backEdit

Hello Steve I'm back. Sorry for being gone so long lol. Æon Insanity Now! 23:05, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Yep and I have also posted an AMA alert requesting all avalable avocates check in with me for a case assignment so we cna clear the back log (we also have a few rather complicated ones in there and one that has ArbCom involment) Æon Insanity Now! 23:26, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

The other insanse one is leavingEdit

Well, I wouldn't call myself insane but there you go.

Sorry to spring this on you but I've decided to leave Wikipedia. It's been a blast and I hope I've been some help to you at least but I think now is the time to hang up my mouse and keyboard and move on. You've been great and I wish you, Martinp23 and Aeon all the best in keeping the AMA going as you've always done so well.

But for me I feel it's best to leave now, on a high and happy.

For the record, you'd make a great admin!

All the very best,

Wikiwoohoo 20:05, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

P.S. I've decided to leave on Friday, so all this week I'll be tying up loose ends, saying my goodbyes and cleaning up my main articles just that once more. Wikiwoohoo 20:07, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Possible Hot issueEdit

Steve looking at this case and looking at both sides I'm thinking that this one should be kicked up to ArbCom. There is already an advocate assigned to it and it looks like this issue could blow up at anytime. Here is the case Wikipedia:Association of Members' Advocates/Requests/March 2007/Ivan Kricancic and I'm currently investigating this one. Æon Insanity Now! Give Back Our Membership! 21:17, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Issues with AMAEdit

It does seem that quite a few people are having some issues with the AMA. If you don't currently have the time, I believe that I can fix them. The organization is in serious need of decentralization. Seraphimblade Talk to me 17:48, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

AMA JoinEdit

As Instructed ive left this here cause i joined im Mr.1337 AKA.(as in real name thing anyway)1337 H4XZ0R 16:51, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Two thingsEdit

1) User:Mattisse case is needed to be resolved now. You have put her "under investigation", but she stills needs help. I can't take her case: I'm on an arbitration (Armenia-Azerbaijian) + had advocated for the opposite party before an it would somehow unethical + it is your case. Please, this user has been asking for help repeatedly and no one could gave her a little help.

2) AMA is going to dissappear, most probably; people are voting against us in here. Take the opposite arguments seriously. --Neigel von Teighen | help with arbs? 11:45, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

AMA deletionEdit

The Association of Members' Advocates is being threatened with deletion. Please consider visiting and adding your voice to the MFD discussion. - Keith D. Tyler (AMA) 17:40, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

AMA ????Edit

Hey Steve what is going on with the AMA MfD? Æon Insanity Now! Give Back Our Membership! 19:52, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I propose!Edit

During the next five days... I propose that all AMA members be requested to drop their current advocacy case. Advocates should direct their advocacee's that the due to a deletion discussion concerning AMA that they may no longer help them out. In fact, all pending cases on AMA should be advised that because of the AMA deletion we are AMA members should temporarily refuse their case. I also request that AMA members and the people whome they are helping be asked to comment on the MFD (deletion process) concerning WP:AMA and how the process was usefull. If the AMA is deleted I further suggest that AMA members still do not assist anyone until the deletion appeal is complete. After that everyone is invited to come to user:CyclePat/AMA and start it up where they shouldn't be able to touch us! --CyclePat 20:46, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Are you there?Edit

Steve, excuse our spamming, but are you there? Or do you want give one of the deputies the leadership on the MfD? No matter who, but we need someone that officially represent AMA apart from its regular members. (Not me, per Conflict of Interests: I have "announced" a possible candidacy for coordination and it would be unfair). --Neigel von Teighen | help with arbs? 07:41, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Looks like we will still be around :)Edit

The MfD was closd as a No consunsue and the closing admin agreed that MfD was nto the best way to go. Æon Insanity Now! Give Back Our Membership! 02:13, 3 April 2007 (UTC)


Steve it's Don, sent you a message about the blog. Thanks! -- 03:41, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Impromptu WikibreakEdit

Sorry everyone, I was on an impromptu Wikibreak over the weekend and did not have time to post it. I'm currently on everything that is going on and I'll be responding individually soon. אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) • Give Back Our Membership! 03:57, 3 April 2007 (UTC)


I am myself a Rutgers College Grad, year 2002 Economics. Anyway, I have joined AMA and wanted to notify you accordingly. Steve Caruso... now why does that name sound so familiar? Teabing-Leigh 14:12, 3 April 2007 (UTC)


Well, I joined AMA and the thingy said to tell you, so Hello! ST47Talk 10:56, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

To give you a heads upEdit

Me and Martin have resigned our possions in the AMA to help cut the red tape. Æon Insanity Now! Give Back Our Membership! 19:44, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Could you please translate these Angel namesEdit

Could you please tell me what Mursiel and Baviel mean; I believe they are Aramaic but I'm not sure. Please leave me a message. Thanks.Lighthead 04:36, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

AMA joiningEdit

I've not known about the AMA until the MFD discussion, and after that and many events I finally decide to join AMA, because I want to help members and resolve disputes. Thank you! --WooyiTalk, Editor review 22:18, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Ideas from the Closing Admin of the MfDEdit

  • Drop the formalistic structure immediately. The AMA does itself no favours by appearing "opaque" to the rest of Wikipedia, and - I believe - wastes a huge amount of time on activities that accomplish nothing towards the goal of delivering advocate services; what this means is the AMA ends up existing merely for its own sake, rather than its stated purpose on Wikipedia. The whole business of pseudo-legal ideas, elections, vast lists of minutiae as formal "meetings", formal authority, bizarre constellations of "teams" with strange acronyms, etc. needs to be killed off rapidly. As I noted on the AMA talk page, these issues were in part the reason that Esperanza met the fate it did, and need to be got rid of not only so the system is more efficient, but also so the perception of the AMA by the rest of the Wikipedia community is no longer one of a secret clique that serves no purpose other than to provide a club for its members. Transparency is essential in any dispute resolution initative.
  • Cease being an adversary of the ArbCom. A number of arbitrators have expressed an extreme dislike of the AMA based on past dealings with advocates in arbitration cases, and indeed Raul commented on the MfD to that effect. The AMA has carried on a consistent policy of thumbing its collective noses at the arbitrators, an extremely unwise course of action that is liable to lead to the arbitrators eventually losing patience and seeing that the initiative is indeed deleted and salted for good. Often, this combative attitude towards the ArbCom has been in the name of justice and "due process" - two terms liable to raise the ire of any Wikipedian, and even more so an arbitrator - and, although I am not specifically defending the ArbCom, I have worked with many of the arbitrators for a number of years here on Wikipedia, and I consider they would not show a dislike of the AMA unless they have a good reason to do so.
  • Actually look at what is happening in the advocate cases. Further to my remarks above about the AMA getting wrapped up in its own organisational folderol, it seems the AMA is spending more time on its own internal squabbling and setting of formalisms than actually checking to see if its advocates are doing their job properly. A concerted effort needs to be made for people to check the quality of work being done, whether the advocate is actually working on the case or has instead "dropped the ball", check that the advocate is being sensible and is not "wiki-lawyering", etc. This must not be implemented as a formalism; instead, all AMA members should, from time to time, have a good look at the cases, and watch for this - the Coordinators should be ensuring this is happening, but appear not to be doing so at the present. It takes only one bad advocate to create a bad name for the organisation as a whole. This is not, however, to be taken in support of restrictive advocate selection - it's just people have to keep their eyes open and maintain common sense about what is acceptable.
  • Define clearly what an advocate should actually be doing and make sure, further to the above, they are sticking to it. It must be made clear to advocates that they are there to represent and advise the user, but not there to act as lawyers, nor to defend the indefensible. Although I can see logic in the idea that everyone has a right to representation, the idea that even the patently guilty should be defended is one carried over from law, and not one that belongs here on Wikipedia. In this case, the arbitrators are perfectly justified in being irritated at AMA advocates officiously trying to gum up the works of arbitration when defending users who obviously need punitive action to be brought against them for the good of the community. In short, the AMA absolutely must work with the community's interest in mind as well, not just that of its clients.
  • Simplify the request process. Although the new-version request page is not intrinsically difficult to follow, the overall appearance of it is one of unnecessary complexity, and I found from my work at the MedCab that getting users to jump through convoluted hoops in order to request assistance will achieve nothing other than a ream of paperwork and endless administrative work. It needs to be succinct and actually glean from users what is needed to carry out the case in a concise manner.
  • Permit "ordinary people" to implement changes in the AMA - the suffering of the submission of proposals before anything is changed, and officious attitudes held by its coordinators on the subject, is utterly pointless. I would implement the {{sofixit}} idea instead, in that people just fix whatever is broken. This reduces the task I have described above of rehabilitating the AMA down to something possible, rather than something that would inevitably fail due to the insufferable stream of proposals that would be needed. Indeed, this is an issue that annoys me personally as I am extremely tempted to jump in and fix these things - but I know if I was to do so, I would not be well-received, due to this rigid structure of authority and pseudo-democracy.

I hope this outlines a potential strategy on what needs to be done. Should there be any way I can help with this, please do let me know. Yours, --NicholasTurnbull | (talk) 03:24, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

He posted that on my talk page when I asked him about ideas on how to prevent the AMA from getting Esperenzaed Æon Insanity Now! Give Back Our Membership! 03:41, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


Thanks. I wonder why he didn't do the same to my userpage. אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) • Give Back Our Membership! 03:50, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I didn't intend to snub you - I read Aeon's message before I saw your reply to my comments on the AMA talk page, and I was writing in response to Aeon's query. I should, though, have put it on the AMA talk page as well. My apologies. I hope my recommendations may be of some use. --NicholasTurnbull | (talk) 04:14, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
Don't worry, I didn't feel snubbed; just curious. :-) Your recommendations thusfar are a great springboard for ideas and discussions. If you are willing, Aeon's started a discussion thread on the Meeting page and I would truly appreciate your participation. אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) • Give Back Our Membership! 04:19, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
LOL sorry about that Steve I didn't have time to cross post you on that one. Æon Insanity Now! Give Back Our Membership! 04:20, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
No worries. :-) אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) • Give Back Our Membership! 04:25, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
yep stupid job gets in the way of Wikipedia. LOL Æon Insanity Now! Give Back Our Membership! 04:26, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


Hello Thadman, I have joined Association of Members' Advocates -LakersTalk 14:24, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Please stop making personal attacks on meEdit

Stop hand.svg Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on contributors; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks may lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. As a warning to you. And I will leave AMA alone. I would especially appreciate if you would finish the "investigation" of my case and close it, although I realise you are quite busy right now. I will be understanding if you take a little while to do so. Sincerely, --Mattisse 15:03, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Matisse, it is considered harassment to post a warning template in response to a request to stop certain behaviors. Please produce these personal attacks or remove this template. אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) • Give Back Our Membership! 14:27, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
I am currently looking for another Advocate for you who is willing to take on your Case. Once I find one who accepts and post here on your talk page that you are all set, I wish to be left alone and not contacted by you further under any circumstances:
  1. Please do not post to my talk page.
  2. Please do not email me.
  3. Please do not IM me.
  4. Please do not call me.
  5. Please do not write to me.
  6. Please do not communicate with me via another method unmentioned above.
I will assume that any such communication is a violation of this request and will constitute harassment. Thank you. אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) • Give Back Our Membership! 15:04, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Do yoy want them?Edit

I thought I wasn't allowed to contact you. (Also, I become confused about your different pages, and only learned a few days about that The Thadman and you were one and the same. Hope this is the right one.) You have already told me in February or so:

  • 1. Please do not post to my talk page.
  • 2. Please do not email me.
  • 3. Please do not communicate with me in any way, until I communicate with you.

But I will post them here if you want.

Sincerely, --Mattisse 16:26, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

  • {copied from AMA talk page - emphasis mine)
  • I am leaving my position aside for a moment and speaking as an individual. With that out of the way, I must say Matisse, that overall you have not lent yourself to be helpful with the Starwood case, your Advocate, or anyone else within the AMA that you have interacted with. On the contrary, nearly every person who has touched your case has become almost immediately frustrated with your approach, attitude and demands. אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) • Give Back Our Membership! 04:17, 21 March 2007(UTC)[9]
  • {copied from another AMA page - emphasis mine)
  • I may add, came from the period of time where the AMA was not functional and completely "ad hoc") and some recent criticism with a few disgruntled advocees (but I do not wish to discuss in detail how I was harassed by Mattisse here)."

אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) • Give Back Our Membership! 16:07, 6 April 2007 (UTC)[10]

Please look on Æon Insanity Now! Give Back Our Membership! pages. I did a better explanation there but he has archived him.

Also, please note comment to me by Addhoc on Wikipedia:AMA Requests for Assistance/Requests/November 2006/Mattisse:

  • Hi Mattisse, I think you are a good faith editor and your actions involved in the Starwood case were entirely legitimate. Also, I believe that some other editors deliberately acted in a manner to increase your stress levels and push you into making an error of judgement. Overall, I think your decision not to be directly involved in the ArbCom case was prudent and the end result was fairly reasonable. Addhoc 14:54, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
  • I never made demeening remarks about you in public. I never named you. I wasn't even thinking that way.

Sincerely, Mattisse 16:58, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Comments you wantedEdit

  • {copied from AMA talk page - emphasis mine)
  • I am leaving my position aside for a moment and speaking as an individual. With that out of the way, I must say Matisse, that overall you have not lent yourself to be helpful with the Starwood case, your Advocate, or anyone else within the AMA that you have interacted with. On the contrary, nearly every person who has touched your case has become almost immediately frustrated with your approach, attitude and demands. אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) • Give Back Our Membership! 04:17, 21 March 2007(UTC)[11]
  • {copied from another AMA page - emphasis mine)
  • I may add, came from the period of time where the AMA was not functional and completely "ad hoc") and some recent criticism with a few disgruntled advocees (but I do not wish to discuss in detail how I was harassed by Mattisse here)."

אמר Steve Caruso (desk/AMA) • Give Back Our Membership! 16:07, 6 April 2007 (UTC)[12]

Please look on Æon Insanity Now! Give Back Our Membership! pages. I did a better explanation there but he has archived him.

Also, please note comment to me by Addhoc on Wikipedia:AMA Requests for Assistance/Requests/November 2006/Mattisse:

  • Hi Mattisse, I think you are a good faith editor and your actions involved in the Starwood case were entirely legitimate. Also, I believe that some other editors deliberately acted in a manner to increase your stress levels and push you into making an error of judgement. Overall, I think your decision not to be directly involved in the ArbCom case was prudent and the end result was fairly reasonable. Addhoc 14:54, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
  • I never made demeening remarks about you in public. I never named you. I wasn't even thinking that way.

Sincerely, Mattisse 16:59, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

"Another advocate"?Edit

Sorry, I know I'm jumping into something that isn't really my business, but you (Steve) said in this diff that you were "looking for another advocate" to take on Mattisse's case. I didn't realise that this was the case, but if so, I would be willing to take on the case. Apologies if I've misunderstood the situation. Walton Vivat Regina! 15:55, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm willing to help with this if necessary, but looks like User:Walton_monarchist89 has it. Let me know if you need help on it. It looks like one of those frustrating cases at first glance. A word of advice, if the advocee is uncooperative there is usually no point in working as an advocate for them. User:Pedant 18:35, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for your response. Walton Vivat Regina! 19:44, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Leave Editor Assistance in peaceEdit

Steve, just as the title says: Leave EA in peace and focus ourselves on AMA, please. AMA must show to be more efficient than EA as in free market: we will fairly compete one against the other and people will decide which is better, but, please no mergings, no harrassing, no more bullying EA. --Neigel von Teighen | help with arbs? 16:22, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Could you please, please, please have a word with CyclePat? His conduct on the EA issue – and now his behaviour on AN/I – does not reflect well on AMA. Letting him be your de facto spokesperson in those discussions implies tacit consent and approval for his actions. His demands for primacy of process over common sense, his wikilawyering, and his insistence on escalating a dispute rather than cooling it—I note that these are all criticisms that were raised during the recent discussions about AMA. Giving the impression that you sanction or encourage such conduct is apt to further tarnish the AMA's reputation. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:12, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Joining AMAEdit

I am joining AMA. CASCADIAHowl/Trail 20:07, 10 April 2007 (UTC)


I think that this is something that you should have a say in. Sounds like a job for an advocate :-) --Kim Bruning 22:58, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Steve, you should check the Wikipedia SignpostEdit

The Article. I don't know about you but the sound of that article makes me nervous. We may want to step up the revamp. Æon Insanity Now! Give Back Our Membership! 05:46, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

A friendly invitation (AMA "ABC" changelog)Edit

Steve, you're our Coordinator! I think you must make at least one edit to the "AMA Constitution/ABC" draft... I'm kidding: do what you want. Seriously: I've done some changes to reflect the agreements and discussion with Nicholas Turnbull. Mainly, changed the wordings that seemed to consider "consensus" in a bureaucratic way. Aeon has changed "meetings" for "Message Board" and proposes AMA Coordination term to be indefinite, expiring when people want and/or per resign.

The only issues I believe remain unsolved in the "Constitution/ABC" draft are:

  1. IRC Channel: Something must be said about it. (The most urgent, as discussion develops in that way)
  2. AMA Coordination election: if Coordinator should or not be voted. (The most important)
  3. The document's name: whether "AMA Constitution", "AMA ABC", "AMA abc" (I prefer this one, without capitals), "AMA xyz", "AMA whatever". And a more creative and humorous preamble that shows the idea is not to have a formal structure. (The less important)

Have a nice day, --Neigel von Teighen 11:31, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

FYI I lefy a message on our proposal here. -- 20:32, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Where is the AMA IRC channel? I'd love to /join and visit. :-) --Kim Bruning 21:22, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


Why was i removed from the list of AMA members? Cheers. Culverin? Talk 10:34, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Emerency WikibreakEdit

Steve I have a family issue on my end (dad is in the hosptial) and I'm cating a flight over to them. I will not be back for a week (or more). Can you take this case or find some one who can (this one is rather interesting.) Becarful if you do take this. Æon Insanity Now! 03:26, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

AMA "Constitution"/ABC de facto approved by myselfEdit

I have turned it official. Anyway, I think it's not such a great change, but it should help to make things be changed more quickly and without "Meetings".

According to the current text, "AMA will be organized into a pragmatical entity with flexible structure capable to be de facto rapidly changed and adapted whenever it is necessary by anyone interested... and changes will only be discussed if controversial" (AMA "ABC" Section 3.1, titled "Organizative Principle"), so, if consensus is against this "Constitution", there would be no problem in getting rid of it,. (Security "auto-shutdown" device?). --Neigel von Teighen 14:11, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I still need an advocate assigned to my case.Edit

Hi. The advocate for my case has withdrawn, before offering any advice. See here. Would you kindly assign me a new advocate, please? Thanks.Ferrylodge 05:58, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

How to volunteer to be an Advocate?Edit

I'm a divorce lawyer. I believe my experience would enable me to be helpful to wikipedians in conflict. Could you advise how I can volunteer?--Raymm 21:10, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

By email, I've received a request to assist on a dispute from Qureus1 [13]. I'm going to try to forward emails to you.--Raymm 18:01, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

First caseEdit

Hi Steve. Can you recommend a good case for a newbie (to AMA, not WP!) to get his teeth into? I'd love to help. Planning to ask The Transhumanist to keep an eye on my work, to ensure I don't do anything excessively stupid... or to help fix it if I do. --Dweller 10:03, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I still need an advocate assigned to my case.Edit

Hi. The advocate for my case has withdrawn, before offering any advice. See here. Would you kindly assign me a new advocate, please? Thanks.Ferrylodge 01:01, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Ongoing problems at Attachment TherapyEdit

I am continuing to have problems with User:StokerAce, User:Shotwell and related parties on this page. I could use some advice and guidance here. Well, now the group has filed an RfC on me and you might want to look at it and comment, if you feel so inclined...Supporting it is Voice of Britain and a related party, who have also ruthlessly edited the Child Sexual Abuse page from a very POV position in favor of Pedophilia. The RfC is at: [[14]] regards. DPetersontalk 12:29, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

If you could comment, I'd appreciate it. Thanks. DPetersontalk 16:07, 20 May 2007 (UTC)


Stete the AMA has been shut down by the community due to its inactivity. Just wanted to give you a heads up. Æon Insanity Now! 02:04, 25 May 2007 (UTC)


Steve, would you perhaps consider standing for election to the Wikimedia Board? After the complaints you have justifiably had about the way the board has altered rights, I'd support you as being the man who can fight to bring them back. Wikiwoohoo 19:33, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Userbox without catsEdit

Would it be possible for you to create a version of your Political Compass userbox that does not add user categories? I tried modifying what you made, but it's way too complex for me, and I ended up with a mess. I like having the userbox on my user page, but I'd prefer not to have three additional categories down on the bottom. Thanks. Horologium t-c 21:54, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image (Image:AMA.png)Edit

Nuvola apps important blue.svg Thanks for uploading Image:AMA.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BetacommandBot 20:58, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

conditional template programmingEdit

Steve, would you be interested in helping me with some simple (for you) conditional template programming? --DieWeisseRose 06:49, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Certainly. :-) What do you need done? אמר Steve Caruso 03:23, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I would like help with the infobox I am working on at User:DieWeisseRose/Sandbox. I want to use the two numeric parameters to select the climate zone and a background color according to the algorithm here and the color scheme here. Ideally, the programming should also make it impossible to enter zero, negative numbers, or non-numeric characters for the parameters. --DieWeisseRose 05:57, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Please re-registerEdit

Information.svg Hello, The Thadman! You are receiving this notice because the Cleanup Taskforce has been inactive, as a result of this all active taskforce members are being asked to re-register.

For more information see: Wikipedia:Cleanup Taskforce/Not Dead Yet

If you do not re-register here within 15 days of receiving this notice your name will be removed from the membership list (if you were unable to reply to this notice in time, you can just add you name back).

RJFJR 01:09, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Please re-registerEdit

Information.svg Hello, The Thadman! You are receiving this notice because the Cleanup Taskforce has been inactive, as a result of this all active taskforce members are being asked to re-register.

For more information see: Wikipedia:Cleanup Taskforce/Not Dead Yet

If you do not re-register here within 15 days of receiving this notice your name will be removed from the membership list (if you were unable to reply to this notice in time, you can just add you name back).

RJFJR 00:49, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Wikification template shouldn't appear in the articles themselves?Edit

Hello Thadman! Just now I moved a {{wikification}} template from The Monster Study to its Talk page. (Someone complained about The Monster Study at WP:VPA). Do you agree that the template doesn't belong in the articles themselves? Also, shouldn't this template be moved into the main template space? Having a redirect across spaces is sometimes frowned upon. EdJohnston 16:49, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject AramaicEdit

This is to advise you that the project above, which you created, is being considered for deletion in accord with wikipedia policy. Please feel free to take part in the discussion at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:WikiProject Aramaic. Thank you. John Carter 15:22, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I've suggested userfication of your aramaic project until you have sufficient members with a post to WikiProject Council/Proposals summarizing the purpose and linking to the userpage. As I suggested in the deletion discussion, I would join immediately. How about it? Comment on my talk page if you are interested.--Doug.(talk contribs) 04:03, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


Have copied to Template space, over redirect. Rgds, Rich Farmbrough, 14:19 21 September 2007 (GMT).

WikiProject AramaicEdit

So, this was saved but barely, and userfied to your user space. Mind if I do some editing there? Will you be around at all? Will you "watch" the page? You're clearly the subject matter expert and I'm just an interested editor (spent some time in Ninewah Province, Iraq), so I really wouldn't want to be alone on this. If I don't hear otherwise, I'll just start editing when I get the time. Please respond on my talk page (preferably by moving the discussion so it stays together)--Doug.(talk contribs) 22:25, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Certainly, please feel free to edit at your leisure. My schedule has suddenly become much busier than I intended, as I had hoped to drum up some interest in the group before it was userified. אמר Steve Caruso 19:24, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

POV Conflict on Definition of ViolenceEdit

Saw on Wikipedia:Editor_assistance you help with the "dispute resolution process, as well as bringing things under a more neutral point of view." As you can see in entries #11 and 12 in Talk:Violence this other individual wants what I believe to be a narrow POV definition of violence which makes smashing and burning property and accidentally harming people NOT violence.

I've been a little accusatory because as a peace activist I've had to put up with these excuses for violence from black bloc types since year 2000. Anyway, if I re-write the definition to reflect a wider range of views, I'm sure he'll revert to his narrower view, and I don't want to get in a revert war.

No one else is opining right now, though Friday I did invite people from terrorism page to do so since that page links to violence a lot. We'll see if there's any response. Meanwhile, help on what to do welcome. Also, make it clear what page I might respond on -- I guess the one you reply to me on? Carol Moore 01:53, 29 October 2007 (UTC)User:Carolmooredc User talk:Carolmooredc

Dang, just read your big pink announcement must have missed first time through. Not familiar with issues that have pissed you off but I guess they are discouraging...
Carol Moore 03:37, 29 October 2007 (UTC)User:Carolmooredc User talk:Carolmooredc

technical pronunicationEdit


I restored the pronunciation to Amanita phalloides. This is required to make the article accessible, say to a high-school student writing a report. (Even if it's not an oral report, reading retention is improved for most people when they can hear a word in their head.) As for the variation you point out, that is generally due to people trying to be faithful to the Latin (even for Greek words!). The pronunciation I gave is the anglicized form; the spelling indicates the Latin (except for vowel length), and therefore the variation is predictable for anyone familiar with technical vocabulary. The same thing is done in articles on astronomical objects, which suffer from similar confusion. kwami (talk) 00:37, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

P.S. I had a similar discussion at Talk:Ailanthus_altissima#Pronunciation. kwami (talk) 00:40, 21 November 2007 (UTC)


Hello, you left me a note, what did you want to tell me? By the way I added a link to Lataster's article that shows scholarly opposition :) Byrnes777 22:38, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Looking for Assistance with the Get (conflict) articleEdit

There has been a lot of new additions to the article by Sagbliss which look a lot like WP:OR. This individual has also been very aggressive with other editors. See User talk: and User_talk:Savant1984#Talk:Reform_Judaism and User talk: In additional to combining a lot of material from court cases around the world, this person is reshaping the article "to highlight the plight of the agunah." Since he or she claims to be part of an active Canadian court case related to the topic, this could also fall into a conflict of interest.

I, and another anonymous Wikipedia have tried to educate Sagbliss (who's probably Bruker from a key Canadian case) on taking a more measured approach to the article. Essentially, Sagbliss ignores the advice and has made broad changes to the article without proper verifiable citations. It may take a while, but read her contributions to people's and the article's talk pages to get a taste of what she's up to.

I picked you from the list of editors willing to help since you also have an interest in religious issues and this intersects civil and Judaic religious laws. We might also want to seek help from wikipedian who are legal experts. Bruno23 13:28, 23 October 2007 (UTC)


Hi! I'm user of the bavarian Wikipedia and I try to translate the template:mycomorphbox. I found a lot to do in the box because there are no exact translations of the shapes, stipes ets. so I tried to translate and for now I made a few of the pictures that I think are missing. I made them in SVG-format and so I make every stipe-pict into SVG. I have a lot of picts now, not all I think, but I want to ask you, if you are interested in my work. I will send a zip-archive to you if you like. (when you tell me how;-) I ask you because it's lot of work if you change the box into SVG-formatted stipe-icons. tw. (talk) 21:46, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Looking for AdvocateEdit

Hi Steve, i contacted you some time ago in 2006. The point is, i have posted a case which it seems to be pending solution on Mediation Cabal, since AMA is gone and i found your name on the list i thought i could stop by and ask for an advocate. If you are willing to assist me or to connect me with an advocate i would appreciate your help. You may contact me via my discussion page. Or leaving a comment on this threat help me--HappyApple (talk) 09:00, 14 March 2008 (UTC) . By the way, a new user had logged on and added some arguments to the section in question. I am not sure if they are done in good faith. Cheers. --HappyApple (talk) 09:00, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Notability of BofferEdit

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People ganging up to disrupt an articleEdit


I found you at Wikipedia:Editor assistance. If you can spare a few minutes of your time helping out at Indo-Aryan loanwords in Tamil, I would be thankful.

I am developing an article on words borrowed by Tamil from Indo-Aryan languages. I am citing a standard authoritative lexicon from which I find the words that are borrowed before including them at Indo-Aryan loanwords in Tamil. There are a few people who seem to be intent in damaging the article by adding "cite" tags, "disputed" and "dubious" tags for the article and threatening to delete it within 24 hours.

Could you please help?

Thanks. ­ Kris (talk) 19:00, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

People ganging up to disrupt an articleEdit


I found you at Wikipedia:Editor assistance. If you can spare a few minutes of your time helping out at Indo-Aryan loanwords in Tamil, I would be thankful.

I am developing an article on words borrowed by Tamil from Indo-Aryan languages. I am citing a standard authoritative lexicon from which I find the words that are borrowed before including them at Indo-Aryan loanwords in Tamil. There are a few people who seem to be intent in damaging the article by adding "cite" tags, "disputed" and "dubious" tags for the article and threatening to delete it within 24 hours.

Could you please help?

Thanks. ­ Kris (talk) 19:02, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Editing disputeEdit


I'm having a bit of an editing dispute on the article Noam Chomsky. I have claimed that Chomsky is a "philosopher" (he is a part of the 20th/20th-century Philosophy" portal). I thought this would be uncontroversial. The user Qed does not agree with me, and takes issue with my use of philosophy reference texts, claiming that philosophers are "self-interested." He inserted a "citation needed" and I have just inserted three philosophy dictionaries/encyclopedias. This should do it, but I don't think the user will be satisfied.

Advice? Grunge6910 (talk) 00:52, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

You are now a ReviewerEdit

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Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, is currently undergoing a two-month trial scheduled to end 15 August 2010.

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If you do not want this userright, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. Courcelles (talk) 18:02, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Please confirm your membershipEdit

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of WikiProject Wikify at 20:36, 22 December 2010 (UTC).

Nomination for deletion of Template:Jesus2Edit

Ambox warning pn.svgTemplate:Jesus2 has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. Mhiji (talk) 13:46, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

a Question about the Aramaic_primacy articleEdit

Hi! You're the author of this picture ReshyanaRashey'a.png which is used in the article. I'd like to know where did you get this translation of the word "reshyana" as "righteous" because none of the dictionaries I know agree with you. They usually give very distant meanings, e.g "blame, charge, accusation; gift". Chdn777 (talk) 08:48, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Editor assistance listEdit

Hello. Since your account has recently not been editing very regularly, on the page Wikipedia:Editor assistance/list you name has been moved to a list of editors who are willing to give assistance, but may not always be available. There is an explanation at Wikipedia talk:Editor assistance/list#Problem with inactive accounts on the list. You are, of course, welcome to move yourself back to the other list if you wish to. JamesBWatson (talk) 11:06, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Help with Acupuncture sectionEdit


I just browsed through wiki and read the acupuncture entry. I found it very badly written especially the intro section. I find that sections of the article especially the intro is more of a "criticism" section rather than a NPOV article about acupuncture. References given are also interpreted very liberally. There is simply bad information that no one knowledgeable about the field would ever consider as a mainstream assertion.

There are huge discussions on the talk page most of which are not concerned with the field of acupuncture, but with commentaries about the field.

Don't know where to start with this... help!

Soll22 (talk) 03:10, 9 February 2011 (UTC)