Talk:Toys for Bob

Tony Hawk Games Wiki

Help is needed at the Tony Hawk Games Wiki, which can be found here. It is very lonely. There are only about 3 users on there. If anyone of you join, and have questions, please see this user page. --98.148.171.15 (talk) 00:28, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Pandemonium 3

Could the project they're working on be the third installment of the Pandemonium franchise? Or perhaps a remake of the first in current-gen graphics?--ThePhantasos (talk) 16:01, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Current Project as of Spring 2010

That quote from the IRC chat was taken at a time when TFB was working on Madagascar 2. As of right now, they are very likely not working on a sequel to any of their previous titles. --99.72.240.102 (talk) 21:15, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Toys for Bob/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Lee Vilenski (talk · contribs) 16:23, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Hello, I am planning on reviewing this article for GA Status, over the next couple of days. Thank you for nominating the article for GA status. I hope I will learn some new information, and that my feedback is helpful.

If nominators or editors could refrain from updating the particular section that I am updating until it is complete, I would appreciate it to remove a edit conflict. Please address concerns in the section that has been completed above (If I've raised concerns up to references, feel free to comment on things like the lede.)

I generally provide an overview of things I read through the article on a first glance. Then do a thorough sweep of the article after the feedback is addressed. After this, I will present the pass/failure. I will use strikethrough tags when concerns are met. Even if something is obvious why my concern is met, please leave a message as courtesy.

Best of luck! you can also use the {{done}} tag to state when something is addressed. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)}

Please let me know after the review is done, if you were happy with the review! Obviously this is regarding the article's quality, however, I want to be happy and civil to all, so let me know if I have done a good job, regardless of the article's outcome.

Immediate Failures

• It is a long way from meeting any one of the six good article criteria -
• It contains copyright infringements -
• It has, or needs, cleanup banners that are unquestionably still valid. These include{{cleanup}}, {{POV}}, {{unreferenced}} or large numbers of {{citation needed}}, {{clarify}}, or similar tags. (See also {{QF-tags}}). -
• It is not stable due to edit warring on the page. -

Links

• Ref style is inconsistent - sometimes it's publishers, sometimes it's full urls like starcontrol.classicgaming.gamespy.com.
• Mobygames isn't a reliable source. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:27, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
• Ref 36 is a ref to wikipedia. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:27, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
• https://crpgbook.wordpress.com/review-index/1992-star-control-2/ - what makes this reliable. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:27, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
• Reiche & Ford. "The Only Way To Win Is". Updates from Fred Ford and Paul Reiche III. - this isn't a publisher/work. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:27, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
• Quite a lot of the refs have no access-date. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:27, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
• When you link to toysforbob.com you have no publisher/website/work parameter. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:27, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

• Had a lot of clean-up to do here, but I think this should all be addressed. Removed MobyGames and tried to improve consistent dates and publishers, for consistency and clarity. The blog post is from Tim Cain, creator of Fall Out. It's already cited in the book, but I thought it was nice to link a web-based version, for people who like to check the footnotes for further reading. Shooterwalker (talk) 21:33, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Prose

Lede

• Could we get a WP:short description? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:13, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
• Lede's should really make out why the subject is notable first. This one says what it is... and then who founded it. The founders being first feels like this is a second prose. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:13, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
• Reiche and Ford separately attended - they wouldn't have attended as a couple. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:13, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
• entering the game industry - the video game industry, unless they've worked at Hasbro et al Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:13, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
• The lede comments on what the pair did, without ever suggesting this was done as a company. I had to check that Star Control was one of their IPs.
• In 2005, Activision acquired them as a studio. - in context this doesn't make much sense. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:13, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
• The Toys for Bob team - sounds awful and promoish. Try developers at Toys for Bob. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:13, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
• of the modern ports of the Crash Bandicoot N. Sane Trilogy and Spyro Reignited Trilogy. - they aren't ports of those games. They are ports of other games, although arguably they aren't ports, but remasters. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:13, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
• Why does the lede not mention any of the awards? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:16, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

• I tried to mention the awards in aggregate, but I can expand on that if you think that's useful. I tried to clear up the parts that sounded wrong. The important thing I wanted to stress about their similar schooling is that they didn't meet until years later, after they both graduated. Shooterwalker (talk) 21:33, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

General

• Having a "name" section seems awful to me. Can we not either put it into the History section, or get enough info for an "identity" or "creation" section? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:15, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
• Paul Reiche III, Fred Ford - why are these not linked? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:15, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
• The name Toys for Bob was coined by Laurie Lessen-Reiche - who is this? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:15, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
• Star Control II became one of the best games of all time, according to numerous publications in the 1990s,[18][19][20][21] 2000s,[22][23][24][25] and 2010s.[26][27][28] It is also ranked among the best games in several specific areas, including: writing,[29][30] world design,[31][32][33] character design,[34][35] and music.[36][37][38] The game also influenced other titles, most notably the open-ended gameplay of Tim Cain's Fallout,[39] the world design of Mass Effect,[40] and the story events of Stellaris.[41] - WP:CITEKILL, try WP:BUNDLING. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:20, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
• There is zero mention of Crash Bandicoot in the entire article. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:20, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
• They worked on Spyro Reignited Trilogy with "updated music, sound effects, visuals, and voice-overs"; its 2018 release was considered one of the best video game re-makes of all time. - once again - updated from what? And why use this quote? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:20, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
• Only half of the games developed section is cited Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:21, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
• That table probably needs a dedicated refs section. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:21, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

• The founding and naming seemed like a good thing to pair up, but I could probably expand it with some verified information for how they operate as a company -- if you think that would help. I bundled the citations for clarity and readability. I tried to clarify their involvement in Crash Bandicoot and Spyro, and fixed the ref table for their list of published works. Hopefully that addresses your concerns. Shooterwalker (talk) 21:33, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Review meta comments

• I'll begin the review as soon as I can! If you fancy returning the favour, I have outstanding GA and FA nominations that require reviewing at WP:GAN and WP:FAC, respectively. I'd be very grateful if you were to complete one of these, however it's definitely not mandatory. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)}
  • Meta-reply I'll work hard to get this one up to quality. I'd rather have more time or even a hold than to give up. This is my first Wikipedia GA in a long time so I plan on using this experience to learn the standards and process. I am eager to return the favor (and also pay it forward) and help WP:VG when this is done. Thanks for taking this on. Shooterwalker (talk) 00:41, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

• I worked on the first round of edits. I added a few replies above in case there was anything outstanding. Willing to keep working at this to bring this up to GA quality. Shooterwalker (talk) 21:33, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
  • Hi Shooterwalker - sorry for the delay - could you add a column for the refs in the games table please? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:11, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
    • Thanks for finding time. I know things are weird in the world right now. Added the column, so just let me know if there's anything else. Shooterwalker (talk) 15:27, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
      • Sorry about the delay - all good, I might do a couple bits of housekeeping, but I'll pass for now, good job. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:15, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
        • Thank you so much! Happy to keep cleaning it up. Shooterwalker (talk) 00:28, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 18:08, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that the game studio Toys for Bob has created multiple award-winning titles, including the Star Control series, The Horde, and the Skylanders franchise?
  • ALT1:... that the game studio Toys for Bob created the award-winning Star Control series, and the billion dollar Skylanders franchise?
  • ALT2:... that Fred Ford and Paul Reiche founded the game studio Toys for Bob after meeting at Greg Johnson's house for a game night, with Star Control as their first project?
  • ALT3:... that game developer Toys for Bob created Star Control after its founders Fred Ford and Paul Reiche met at Greg Johnson's house for a game night?

• Comment: Threw a few suggested options and still open minded about what to say. Willing to work on this.

Improved to Good Article status by Shooterwalker (talk). Self-nominated at 03:01, 31 August 2020 (UTC).

• Review in progress.  Bait30  ^{Talk 2 me pls?} 21:17, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing: - Star Control II being one of the greatest games of all time is a challengeable statement, so it should be sourced in the lead per MOS:CITELEAD.
• Neutral:
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited: - ALT0 and ALT1 have issues because the article doesn't state what awards were earned by Star Control or Skylanders. Skylanders being billion dollars is sourced. ALT2 and ALT3 have an issue because that info is sourced to a two hour long Ars Technica interview on Youtube and I don't think it's reasonable for me or anyone reading the article to have to figure out where in the interview it's mentioned.
• Interesting:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: Some not so minor issues concerning hook citation. Also, it would be helpful if you linked the source next to the proposed hooks. For example, see Template:Did you know nominations/Riyaz Naikoo.  Bait30  ^{Talk 2 me pls?} 21:54, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

• The cites exist but I can see the need to clear them up. I can find time stamps from the video, and I can even add a source to the lead. Should I add those to the article somehow? Or should I take my cues from Template:Did you know nominations/Riyaz Naikoo and just bring them directly to your attention in this discussion? Thanks for your patience. Shooterwalker (talk) 17:33, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

• Definitely add to the article, that's more important. I was just asking you to also add them here next to the hook to make it easier for me or other reviewers. It's sort of standard around here to do that. I found in the article where Star Control's award is mentioned and it's cited so that's good. I also found where it says Skylanders won awards, but it's unsourced in the lead. So at this point, ALT1 is the closest to being approved because everything about the hook is good, it's just the article that would need to be worked on.  Bait30  ^{Talk 2 me pls?} 17:50, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

• I added sourcing for "greatest game" and some awards in the lede. I also added a quote from the YouTube video to the refs in the article, which I'm also attaching here. I appreciate your patience as I'm still trying to figure out best practices for citing, both in the article and at DYK. I wish YouTube would let you directly link to their transcripts -- but for future reference, you can click on the "..." at YouTube to open it. You'll find the quote from the 7-8 minute mark of the video. I'll keep working on this until I've ironed out any other errors or omissions. Just let me know. Shooterwalker (talk) 14:24, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

• It looks good now! All hooks are good, though I prefer ALT3 the most. I struck-out some of the hooks to make them snappier.  Bait30  ^{Talk 2 me pls?} 17:24, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

• Awesome! I prefer having the names of the devs in there (they've done a lot of talks with the fans over the years and they are almost more recognizable than the studio itself), but I don't object to striking it either. Either way, I'm good to proceed with ALT3. Shooterwalker (talk) 19:24, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

• Hi, I came by to promote this, but I really don't understand the point of using Johnson's name and not the other developers. The other hooks are much too PR-y. Why don't you write a hook about the reason for the name "Bob"? You have a few good reasons in the article. Yoninah (talk) 00:00, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

• I just felt there were too many blue links and it wasn’t snappy enough. I thought those were the easiest ones to remove without too much editing. I know you’re more experienced, so you can unstrike them if you prefer.  Bait30  ^{Talk 2 me pls?} 16:54, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

• I'd prefer to unstrike them. If it gives more context, we could say "Starflight creator Greg Johnson". Star Control / the people involved are a strong hook based on the fandom, IMO. Shooterwalker (talk) 17:02, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

• OK. So we're going with:
• ALT3a:... that game developer Toys for Bob created Star Control after its founders Fred Ford and Paul Reiche met at Starflight creator Greg Johnson's house for a game night?
• Restoring tick for ALT3 per Bait30's review. Yoninah (talk) 18:06, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

References