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Talk:Timeline of LGBT history/Archive 1

< Talk:Timeline of LGBT history
Latest comment: 6 years ago by InternetArchiveBot in topic External links modified
Archive 1 Archive 2

Template

Below is an optional template to be used in various years in gay rights - for a working example, see: 2004 in gay rights. (Cut and paste fom below this line)

''See also:'' [[xxxx in gay rights]], [[xxxx|other events of xxxx]], [[xxxx in gay rights]] and the [[gay rights timeline]].

==Events==

===January===

===February===

==Births==

==Deaths==

==External links==
* [http://www.advocate.com Web site for Advocate news magazine]
* [http://www.365gay.com 365gay.com]
* [http://news.google.com/news?as_q=&svnum=10&as_scoring=r&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=&as_oq=gay+lesbian+bisexual+transgender+homosexual&as_eq=&as_nsrc=&as_nloc=&as_occt=any&as_drrb=q&as_qdr=&as_minm=1&as_mind=20&as_maxm=2&as_maxd=19 Google search for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender news]
*[http://www.stonewall.org.uk/stonewall/information_bank/index.html Stonewall's information bank]

Please don't include generic links like these in the External Links sections of multiple pages. It is close to link-spam, and not helpful to the encyclopedia. Limit yourself to adding these to one or two related pages (perhaps gay culture), or pages which contain content found on those sites. +sj+

Discussion

Intended content

What content should be added to this page and the X in gay rights pages?
Is it only about the history of gay rights in the USA (as the current, very limited content seems to suggest)? Will it be a list of all the SSM and SSM in X news headers from the current events pages? Or is anything related to gay rights from around the world legitimate? (if these questions have already been discussed somewhere, just point me to that) -- Kimiko 10:23, 27 Feb 2004 (UTC)

This is meant to be a way to mark timelines and be a directory of significant events in global LGBT events throughout history. It is NOT intended to be a U.S.-only list. Please feel free to add events. I will add a proposed template for missing years so that it can be copied. Davodd 20:50, Feb 27, 2004 (UTC)

Okay. Thanks for the info. For events that happened in many countries (decriminalization of homosexuality, opening of marriage to same-sex couples, etc.), should we list only the first country, or all of them? -- Kimiko 10:51, 28 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I think it should be only 1 or 2 biggest events of the year, then people can go to the main article by clicking the year. Davodd 12:34, Feb 28, 2004 (UTC)

Actually, I meant the year pages, not the list, but I understand what you mean. What about 2003? How to decide what the biggest events were? The striking down of US sodomy laws? SSM in Belgium? SSM in Canada? Section 28 in the UK? SSM in Massachusetts? The latter didn't become really big until February 2004 it seems. Neither section 28 or SSM in Belgium received much attention abroad I think. For 2004, SSM in US debated seems a good headline for now. -- Kimiko 14:17, 28 Feb 2004 (UTC)

The repeal of section 28 was massive in the UK. As a lot of readers come from the UK it needs to be listed on one of the years. Secretlondon 14:53, Feb 28, 2004 (UTC)

Gay Games

re: Gay Games. Is this really relevant? It seems a bit trivial compared to everything else. Secretlondon 15:17, Feb 28, 2004 (UTC)

Also, they aren't really about Rights, which is the topic of this list. I vote for removal of the gay games entries, except maybe the first one. Oh well, they don't really bother me on the subpages either. But they have to go from the list as 'important events'. -- Kimiko 15:37, 28 Feb 2004 (UTC)
The First Gay Games, though, did have to do with rights. They were originally to be called the Gay Olympics, but the name had to be changed when the IOC sued Tom Waddell, the organizer. Some people claim this was just trademark protection, most gay folk see it as motivated by homophobia. I agree that the subsequent games are clearly less important, -- Outerlimits
I doubt that action was homophobic, any more than the IOC suing Olympics of the Mind (who changed their name to Odyssey of the Mind) was "smart-kids-ophobic". It seems that the IOC has a long history of challenging anybody who tries to use the word "Olympics" in their name. -- Psiphiorg 10:24 GMT, 21 Oct 2005

Queer rights

There is a problem in calling these pages "gay rights" as it does not fully recognize bisexual people, and while the inclusion of news related to transgender people (while important and valuable), but under "gay rights" it casts unintentional POV in that it insinuates that transsexual men and women are merely "gay"... I already brought up this point at Talk:2004 in gay rights, with some preliminary discussion for a name change. Thanks Dysprosia 23:21, 28 Feb 2004 (UTC)

That discussion was moved by User:Davodd, see below. -- Kimiko 09:48, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Rock Hudson

Why is Rock Hudson's death listed (1985 in gay rights)? His death may have brought attention to HIV/AIDS, but that is not a Rights issue (what these pages are about), not even exclusively gay-related. And Rock himself didn't do much for Gay Rights either as he was in the closet for most of his life. -- Kimiko 22:25, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I added it. It should definitely stay in the 1985 article. But, I also favor replacing the 1985 reference with something more substantial on this page when it is found. Davodd 03:26, Mar 3, 2004 (UTC)

Can you explain why it should stay? I'm not saying I insist on removing it, but I think it's a good idea to figure out what belongs or doesn't belong on these pages. Do you think anything gay (or LGBT, see below) related could be placed here, or only "gay (or queer) rights" events? -- Kimiko 09:48, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I believe that the death of any prominent gay or lesbian person should be considered for inclusion in the Deaths section of the "Year in..." articles. But there is a special case with Hudson, his forced coming out as a gay man made him the first gay major Hollywood movie star. The American cultural impact of his surprise outing is still referenced in news reports on gay rights issues -- issues that are not related to AIDS. For examples: Click here for a list of the most recent articles. That aside, for this specific page, I do support removing the reference of Hudson;s death next to the 1985 year once we find another notable event. -- Davodd 09:58, Mar 3, 2004 (UTC)

So it was really his coming-out that was important for gay rights, not his death from AIDS? (BTW, only two of those reports referred to his sexuality specifically, the others just happened to mention "gay" and "Rock Hudson" in the same text). In that case, listing his coming-out would be more appropriate. Again, I'm not against listing his death per se, I'm just saying that if we're going to list all gay celebrities, we're A) just duplicating the List of famous gay, lesbian or bisexual people, and B) cluttering this timeline into being a lot less useful. -- Kimiko 10:17, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I will go along with group consensus on this matter. Davodd 18:39, Mar 3, 2004 (UTC)

Content (moved from talk:2004 in gay rights)

This is a great idea. Is the "deaths" section supposed to include only prominent people, or can it include otherwise unsung victims of gay-bashing? - Montréalais 07:35, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I'm thinking only prominent people, with the notable exceptions of high-profile bashings or hate crimes (Matthew Shepard's bashing, Harvey Milk's assassination, etc.). It'd keep us in line with the main year-article standards. - Jim Redmond 23:59, 27 Feb 2004 (UTC)

LBGT vs. "gay" (moved from talk:2004 in gay rights)

** Miss Universe pageant officials in New York City remove transgender contestant Chen Lili from China's Sichuan province despite her getting approval from China officials. [1] The recently added link/new entry is a useful one to mention, but under gay rights it casts unintentional POV in that are we saying that transsexual women are merely "gay"? Unless Chen Li is in fact a lesbian the entry should probably be moved somewhere else ;) Dysprosia 05:33, 28 Feb 2004 (UTC)

In the inclusion, was thinking LGBT rights issues were gay rights issues. Will go with majority opinion on this. Davodd 06:18, Feb 28, 2004 (UTC)
Of course, but the title doesn't suggest it ("gay" really only suggests homosexual). Perhaps the article needs to be moved. Dysprosia 06:23, 28 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Doesn't this argument suggest we also move the gay rights article? As well as the inclusion of Gwen Araujo in the gay bashing/Persecution of homosexuals article, which also would be in question. Davodd 06:29, Feb 28, 2004 (UTC)
Gah! Something needs to be done about that! Hang on Dysprosia 06:36, 28 Feb 2004 (UTC)
The term "gay rights" is most common, but it's inaccurate also. The term "queer" is rather useful, but some don't like this, so we can't easily use it. Dysprosia 06:47, 28 Feb 2004 (UTC)
And the problem with acronyms is then you gotta define them... Pakaran. 06:48, 28 Feb 2004 (UTC)


As an example of common use of "LGBT" in particular, my school has an LGBTSA (L/B/G/T student association) Pakaran. 06:48, 28 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I guess gay rights is different from GLBT rights: The gay rights movement seeks acceptance for homosexuality and homosexual persons., which suggests bisexuals and transsexuals are not included. therefore, we just simply need to mention the rights movement for homosexuals. otherwise, we have to redefine what gay rights is to include bisexual and transsexual. (but i don't know what that exactly means among English speakers) --Yacht 00:21, Feb 29, 2004 (UTC)

The problem is that if you redefine "gay rights" to include bisexuals and transgendered people, the word "gay" to describe the movement is inaccurate. Issues relating to transgendered people were added to the gay rights timeline articles, which is great, but transgendered people aren't intrinsically gay - do you see the problem? The term "gay rights" needs to be made more inclusive to be more accurate, if we are to include issues relating to transgendered or bisexual people, which we should. Dysprosia 01:12, 29 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I meant "we just simply need to mention the rights movement for homosexuals." others added to, like, GLBT rights or transgendered rights. but i doubt if there are such expressions. --Yacht 02:42, Feb 29, 2004 (UTC)
If I understand you correctly, you just want to put gay-related issues only here? (Sorry, I can be slow sometimes ;) If so, where else are we to put bisexual/transgendered issues in the news? Dysprosia 03:33, 29 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Hmm, most people I know consider "gay rights" issues to include bisexual and transgender issues since they are so inter-linked in facing the same homophobia. Of the two, I think the biggest hurdle is inclusion of transgender issues here since by definition most of these people self-identify as heterosexual. But in gay rights circles, transgendered folk are usually considered part of the overall gay community - at least where I have lived in the Midwest and California. As for bisexual. I'm not sure if there is enough distiction between bisexual and gay/lesbian issues that would warrant a separate article. In fact I think there is more of a distinction between gay male vs. lesbian rights than bisexual vs. homosexual rights. ;-) For now, I think we should put B and T news here -- but sub-categorize them -- like:
Perhaps that will be a useful compromise. Dysprosia 08:25, 29 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Agreed that, for now, including T* and bi rights events in the list seems a good solution. I think that fact should be mentioned on the gay rights timeline page. Queer rights would be more descriptive, but gay rights is definitely the most used term. -- Kimiko 22:38, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)
PS. I think it would be worthwhile to move this discussion (and the one at the top too BTW) to Talk:Gay rights timeline.

(so moved) Davodd 03:22, Mar 3, 2004 (UTC)

Say what??

Um, what on earth has happened here? Since when is history of homosexuality the same as gay rights or gay rights timeline? Exploding Boy 09:59, Apr 20, 2004 (UTC)

My sentiments exactly. This timeline is confused in so many, many ways. Few of the births/deaths I've seen listed have been relevant to gay rights -- though Turing's death via cyanide and infamous deaths via gay-bashing are exceptions; many of the entries (like the origins of the word "homosexuality") could conceivably be related, but the relationship isn't mentioned in those blurbs; what should be a single timeline article with perhaps separate decade-articles for the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, and 2000s is a mess of sparsely-populated year-articles... contributors seem obsessed with men, and rarely mention women (etymologies for four words are given, for instance, all applicable to men)
And I was really miffed to find the outcome of the 1907 Prince von Bülow v. Brand libel case misstated -- it was not the Prince who was sentenced to 18 months in prison! +sj+ 07:24, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Yes, there is a real confusion in this listing of events between social and political movements of the late 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries based on sexuality as identity and a history of same-sex sexuality before about 1860 when it was not an issue of social identity, but one of behavior. It would be helpful to more clearly differentiate the two. The overall title of the section gives an ahistorical impression that there was a 'gay rights' movement long before the social identity that underpins it even existed. --Buzz Harris, writer, researcher, & former staffperson at NGLTF and GLAD in the U.S.

Rights and POV

Reference I have a curiosity and this might not be the place but... Does the word "rights" carry a POV? Most people would not argue the view of humans have a general right to life (even death penalty is only in "extreme" conditions). More would argue (at least in the US) that civil rights for all races are objectionable. Therefore they are not the "rights" of the people. The same goes for suffrage for both genders. Today we are continually the civil rights movement and many would argue that gay rights are a continuation and therefore should be accepted as such. This as we can see by the news stories is hotly debated. Is it the "right" of gays to marry or is it government overstepping its right if this is allowed? Using the term gay rights is very one sided and implies that they do have the inherent right to this is it not? When we step into the future pedophile rights or child lover rights might be the issue as a contination of the civil rights movement and sexual revolultion: allowing consenting children to participate in sex with adults. With human views seemingly gravitating to the acceptance of casual sex this does not seem so outlandish to me, however, starting a timeline and calling Lindsay Ashford the head of pedophile rights at this point in time might be frowned upon. This then follows (as I see it) that we should be able to create a timeline of white rights based on the KKK and show the progress (and then loss thereof) of "white rights" or whatever you would like to call it. My point is that the word rights heavily reflects views prevalent in our time which is a very chronocentric point of view. I am, of course, not thinking that any of these title will change, they are so far ingrained that we know these movement by such point of view terms. I am just curious to user opinions on this issue. Thanks gren 07:57, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

No. It is not POV to use the term most common in usage. The rest of your argument is conjecture and at best is a moot argument since it is more in the realm of rhetoric than fact-based observation. As words evolve, so will Wikipedia, but for now, the most common usage for the legal struggles of the LGBT communities is "gay rights." - DAVODD 09:57, Mar 20, 2005 (UTC)
My point was that the most common term in usage carried a POV therefore Wikipedia could not be expected to use anything but it because of its prevalence, however it still has a POV. Civil/gay/etc legal rights would not carrying as that POV in the same way. I also think it surpasses the realm of conjecture because every group gaining rights in the last century or so have called their movement the XXX rights movement, so to presume that the next group, following the trend, after gay rights would use the terms seems rather logical. I am sorry, it is quite difficult for me to make fact-based observations about the future as it has not come to pass as of now. I do think it is an interesting question and not merely one to be dismissed, it has no place in changing the policies of WikiPedia however it is a pejorative term, used to belittle the argument of the other side gren 20:28, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I was trying to stay focused on this article - but didn't realise you were talking concepts that reach beyond here. I am sorry if you thought I was belittling you. Maybe the correct forum for this - since it is a "big picture" question - is the Wikipedia:Village pump -- where more people would be exposed to your inquiry. DAVODD 09:24, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)

1941 - Transsexuality?

Latest comment: 16 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

"1941 - Transsexuality was first used in reference to homosexuality and bisexuality."

I have a hard time believing that. Does anyone have any sources? That almost seems to contradict the 1958 entry. --65.190.100.188 06:45, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

12,000 BCE

Latest comment: 15 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Currently the text refers to Explaining the early human mind, 1996 in order to interpret phallic batons as a double dildo that might have been used by two women. The source actually states "including one double baton from the Gorge d'Enfer with two explicitly rendered penises set at an angle to one another (just like a modern `double' dildo)" this does not imply that two women would have used this dildo at the same time. On this basis I shall remove the text as it cannot be justified as evidence of LGBT history and is over interpreting the source material and is original research.—Ashleyvh (talk) 10:36, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Austria and Hungary

Latest comment: 15 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Parliaments in Austria and Hungary not approved registered partnership bills yet Ron 1987 (talk) 10:45, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

5,000 BCE / aaronsgayinfo.com

Latest comment: 15 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I have removed the reference to arronsgayinfo.com - Timeline of more History as this counts as a tertiary source and does not constitute a reliable source. It may still be an interesting general external link.—Ashleyvh (talk) 11:48, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Note that arronsgayinfo.com is listed in External Links.—Teahot (talk) 07:17, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

2005 Hong Kong Gay Sex Law Dead / 365gay.com

Latest comment: 15 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The link to this story via webarchive.org to 365gay.com has been put back by User:EqualRights after being identified by me as a deadlink (diff). Unfortunately the link still appears to not work, directing me to the live version of the top level page for 365gay.com. Could someone please check this out and either repair the link, delete or replace with a better source?—Teahot (talk) 11:46, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:Oscar Wilde.jpg

Latest comment: 14 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

The image File:Oscar Wilde.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

  • That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
  • That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --23:06, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Rationale added to image:Oscar_Wilde.jpg#Licensing/Historic importance rationale for use on this article.—Teahot (talk) 11:42, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

1924 & 1974... Panama?

Latest comment: 14 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Just as recently as 2008 was homosexuality made legal in the Republic of Panama.. why does this article say that in 1924 and 1972, homosexuality was legalized and transexuals who had sex reasignment surgery may have their legal ID to state their new gender? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.224.81.82 (talk) 20:23, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Excessive requests for citations? Hope not

Latest comment: 14 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

There needs to be some common sense in heavily marking up sections on timeline pages with "NO REFERENCES! templates. Any line that has a link in it to an associated article should not be marked 'cite needed' unless the associated article doesn't support that line. Correspondingly, whole sections should not be marked "This section does NOT CITE ANY references or sources" unless it does not cite ANY.

WP has a VERY prominent set of timelines ... the days of the year ... e.g. August 11 or July 3. I've seen hundreds of these pages, and there are FEW if ANY requests for citations there.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be *delighted* to see all these entries *heavily* cited. It's not going to happen overnight. Twang (talk) 10:06, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Kosovo!

Latest comment: 14 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

“1970 – Kosovo decriminalized homosexuality”. I don't understand, did Kosovo even exist at that time? Did the writer of this sentence, mean Serbia? --Mahmudmasri (talk) 03:25, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Anastasius I

Latest comment: 13 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

"In spite of the laws against gay sex, the Christian emperors continued to collect taxes on male prostitutes until the reign of Anastasius I, who finally abolishes the tax in favor of sampling of the best men."

What is meant by "sampling of the best men"?? Thanks. 99.9.112.31 (talk) 23:50, 14 May 2010 (UTC)roger

Equality rights legislation or LGBT history?

Latest comment: 13 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The latter part of the LGBT history has become a list of LGBT rights obtained in various parts of the world, particularly the 90s' and 21 century sections, when compared to the earlier sections which are much more diverse. It looks like the only LGBT historical events are those relating to rights and equality (21st century Equality Timeline not an LGBT History timeline).

Much of the 21st century section could be extracted to an LGBT Rights Timeline leaving space for other historical milestones which should be recorded here. A summary of LGBT equality and rights could remain on this page. Alternatively there should be more contribution in areas other than rights and equality. The 21st century section has bullet points "other" for everything not connected to equality and rights, which may convey to the reader that events listed there as less significant. i.e this section does not appear impartial.

80's. 90's and 00's. The history of AIDS and its devastating impact on the LGBT communities around the world is largely ignored. Contributors contributing in this decade are focused on the current LGBT focus (of equal rights) whereas if wikipedia had been around in the eighties and nineties, the focus would have been on AIDS. Without becoming an AIDS timeline, I have added several significant events related to AIDS during 80's. 90's and 00's.

I suggest that the LGBT history page should be more balanced. It should not be either an AIDS timeline nor an Equal Right timeline (though there could be pages for those subjects), but reflect a wider range of historically important events.

Some I was thinking of adding:-

  • Queer TV and cinema
    • first male to male kiss on television
    • first female to female kiss on television
    • first gay themed Oscar winning Hollywood movie (Brokeback Mountain)
  • Significant Trans events
  • Prime time TV historical moments such as Ellen DeGeneres revealing that she was a lesbian
  • Violence against the LGBT community (some of which is timelined in Violence against LGBT people)
  • Significant LGBT politicians (there are only 4 references to out politicians 1 Dutch, 2 US, 1 UK)
  • Significant apologies to the LGBT community (UK: Alan turing, Section 28, Archbishop of Canterbury))
  • Latter day sports personalities flying the flag for the LGBT community (e.g. Gareth Thomas)
  • Other events which reflect the way in which the LGBT perceives itself and
  • Other events which show how the LGBT community is perceived by the wider community

Thoughts? PjThompso 09:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pjthompso (talk • contribs)

The bulletpoint nature of the 21st century + 2000 is definately my 'fault'. a few edits back it was just an ad hoc mess, every new fact/event someone thought of was stuck on with a sentence to the end of the appropriate year. I wanted to make it easier to read and to have some form of order. That said, 80-90% of the facts/events there were there already and I just verified and categorised them, i.e. I haven't made significant content contributions. Given that the vast majority of what was there was about LGBT rights I created categories appropriately. The Other category was anything that, as you say, didn't fit into a LGBT rights issues category neatly, mainly because there wasn't enough material to make a category out of the individual events left over (seperate one member categories seemed a little silly). The only exception to this rule was that Pride marches were mentioned a lot so I created a category for them too.
If you can think of other categories with plenty of examples e.g. the ones you suggest above or LGBT deaths perhaps, then please add them in. I don't think moving all the rights based stuff away from the timeline is the way to go as the big issues of the 21st century have been around LGBT rights, same-sex unions in particular. Maybe just one half of the year's space be about rights issues, then the other half more media/public perception based things.
Really though, what is there will be dictated by editor contributions, and editors have mainly contributed rights issues to the 21st century. If you have other events you feel are significant make some categories and add them in, your list of suggestions sounds great. Thoughts, feelings, outbursts? Philoyonder (talk) 11:10, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
OK with me to stick to sub-categories. Maybe we can have "Social History" along with the rights.
I also noticed that the links from the years link to a pages such as 1980 in LGBT rights. People have gone to a lot of trouble to create pages for each year and link them to LGBT History Timeline. Again it comes back to some editors seeing this as an LGBT Rights Timeline, at least the more recent contributions.
The categorisation means Wikpedia defines LGBT History as a set of rights achieved over the years. Important as these are, LGBT history is so much more than that.
The year links currently appearing as "1980 in LGBT rights", probably should link to pages which are like this Category:1980s in LGBT history. Sub categories should then link to the next level, such as "1980 in LGBT rights" as and when more detail is required for a particular year (or year range).
Pjthompso (talk)
PjThompso 12:43, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

11th Century - Relevance of bullet point

Latest comment: 13 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

"In Scandinavia, the cult of transvestism persists for centuries." Transvestism is not an exclusively homosexual practice and has no place in this context. The rest of the bullet seems appropriate to the discussion. --69.30.62.114 (talk) 23:37, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Jefferson (18th century)

Latest comment: 13 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The attribution to Thomas Jefferson of laws against sodomy (or buggery) is a misuse of his writings. Jefferson submitted a bill to the Virginia legislature that contained the sum of all laws on criminal punishment from Anglo-Saxon tradition since the Magna Carta. Jefferson wrote (page 65 of his compiled writings by Lipscomb): "In the execution of my part, I thought it material not to vary the diction of the ancient statutes by modernizing it, nor to give rise to new questions by new expressions. The text of these statutes had been so fully explained and defined, by numerous adjudications, as scarcely ever now to produce a question in our courts." I've removed the reference.75.164.233.28 (talk) 05:41, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

11th-century Scandinavia

Latest comment: 13 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The article contained some strange information about pre-christian Scandinavia. Quote: : In Scandinavia, the cult of transvestism persists for centuries. In the same way, only the sons who inherit their father's land can marry; the other ones must leave these lands and associate with military companies. Moreover, it is claimed women to remain chaste and they are severely punished if they violate this rule[citation needed]. Within military groups, pederasty is practiced as an institutionalized way of life. End Quote. I am from Scandinavia myself, and this sounds very odd for some one with a knowledge about life in pre-Christian Scandinavia (Sweden was still not Christian in the 11th-century. The information is further more not referenced, and I doubt it could be: women in Pagan Scandinavia had the same sexual rights as men and were allowed to have sex with whomever they chosed. Women was not punished in any way for having sex before Christianity, nor where there made any difference between children in and out of marriage before Christianity. The information is therefore highly controversial. Although homosexuality was not persecuted as it would be under Christianity, I have never heard it was "institutionalized". As for the transvestism I have not heard of it either, but I have left it for now. This article can really need some referencing. --Aciram (talk) 18:01, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Ancient phallic symbols

Latest comment: 13 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

The article speaks of "artifacts which suggest an appreciation of homosexual eroticism," and cites among other items, "phallic statues". I doubt these can be reliably attributed to homoeroticism. I understand that most historians and anthropologists interpret phallic statues and pillars as associated with ancient fertility rituals. MishaPan (talk) 19:03, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. --Eddylyons (talk) 21:36, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Though I think homosexuality between prehistoric males is likely, and cave art seems to depict homosexual acts, phallic symbols do not seem to be homosexual erotica, and I certainly cannot see how a dildo is! It could have been used by a woman, made for a woman! Nakamura Mondo (talk) 13:49, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

1283

Latest comment: 12 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

No "French Civil Code" ever existed in this period. "French Civil Code" refers to the code that was published by Napoleon Ist. It is not easy discovering to which document the sentence refers : this is probably an offset of studies about "French Common Law" that was used in the north of France before the French Revolution. But for specific areas like Normandy many documents from the Xth to the XIIIth century have been lost or never existed at all. So "Common Law" was collected in many places at the end of the XIIIth century.--Leznodc (talk) 11:51, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Liberalisation since 1980s in parts of Christianity, Buddhismus, Hinduismus and Judaism

Latest comment: 12 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Since 1980s parts of Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism and Judaism became more liberal, accepted homosexual couples and allowed ordination of LGBT clergy.

See here articles:

That should be short mentioned in LGBT history. 188.118.143.232 (talk) 10:53, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Are LGBT people pederasts?

Latest comment: 12 years ago7 comments4 people in discussion

I have removed the following extended section on pederasty as I do not believe it is directly part of Timeline of LGBT history and a likely distraction into other issues for this article. A mention of pederasty and associated link is still in that section for a reader to follow through. Please do not automatically replace this text without discussion first.

Pederasty spread through ancient Greece, influencing sports, literature, politics, philosophy, art and warfare, and causing, according to some,

a flowering of culture; it was associated with gymnasia and athletic nudity.[1][2] However, in his Laws, Plato spoke up against the decadence into which traditional Athenian pederasty sank, blamed pederasty for promoting civil strife and driving many to their wits' end, and recommended the prohibition of sexual intercourse with boys, laying out a path whereby this may be accomplished.[3]

Pedarasty comes from the Greek word paiderastia which is a combination of pais (meaning boy), the verb eran (meaning to love), and eros (meaning desire). It was attributed to Zeus when he kidnapped young Ganymede. Pedarasty is not to be confused with pedophilia; only boys that had reached an appropriate age (that is, come into puberty) were considered for this relationship. Greek law prohibited prostitution, sex with underage boys, and sex with slaves. [4]

—Ash (talk) 18:42, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I note that this has been reverted without discussion. Would anyone care to explain why the history of Pederasty is the same as the history of LGBT, as I do not consider Pederasts either Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual or Transgender?—Ash (talk) 20:14, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I think the question should be the other way around: are pederasts LGBT people? Use a Venn diagram and figure it out. Just because two things are not exactly the same does not mean they do not overlap significantly.Ryoung122 21:02, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
You are free to create an article called Timeline of pederast history but it is off-topic for LGBT history. Using the term "pederast" without qualification at the beginning of this article carries the modern meaning of the term and consequently conflates pederasts with LGBT people. The text here also uses terms such as "underage boys" without explanation in the article which will be misunderstood by the layman reader. LGBT does not encompass pederasty and your argument about overlap is irrelevant as you could use the same argument to get the subject of pederasty on articles such as Priesthood, Black people or Police.—Ash (talk) 21:45, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
I shall remove this off-topic material again. Please do not replace without reasonable discussion here.—Ash (talk) 11:36, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Ash: I agree with you completely. Let me know if this turns into a problem here. I get tired of having the LGBT sections of this encyclopedia being constant targets for 'clever' people. And I very much doubt that WP wants that kind of publicity. Twang (talk) 10:06, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
THE PERSON WHO WROTE THIS IS SERIOUSLY MISGUIDED: There is mention of Antonius and Emperor Hadrian (Hadrian met Antonius when he was younger than 19!!!), Alexander the Great (he is known for liking boys), and Leonardo Da Vinci who is known to have lived with a boy from when the boy was aged ten. Either expunge all mention of such geniuses/heros or admit that they had sex with boys! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.183.140.34 (talk) 19:00, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Devereaux, George, "Greek Pseudo-homosexuality and the Greek Miracle", Symbolae Osloenses, 13 (1967), pp.70–92
  2. ^ (Percy III, 1996)
  3. ^ Plato, Laws, 636D & 835E
  4. ^ Cite error: The named reference Fone was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

Orphaned references in Timeline of LGBT history

Latest comment: 11 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Timeline of LGBT history's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "ReferenceA":

  • From Clement Attlee: The Attlee Governments 1945-1951 by Kevin Jefferys
  • From North America: Zeeya Merali, Brian J. Skinner, Visualizing Earth Science, Wiley, ISBN 978-0-470-41847-5
  • From Harold Wilson: Changing party policy in Britain: an introduction by Richard Kelly
  • From Romania: "Romania". International Monetary Fund. Retrieved 20 April 2012.
  • From Nevada: National Climatic Data Center, Asheville, N.C., and Storm Phillips, Stormfax, Inc.
  • From LGBT rights in Belarus: (From Viachaslau Bortnik's report presented at the OSCE Human Dimension Implementation Meeting, Warsaw, 4–15 October 2004; side event “Intolerance, discrimination and hate crimes based on sexual orientation and gender identity in the OSCE region”.)
  • From Nelson Mandela: Democracy and governance review: Mandela's legacy 1994-1999 by Yvonne G. Muthien, Meshack M. Khosa, and Bernard Magubane
  • From Age of Enlightenment: Beard and Gloag, Musicology, 59.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 05:56, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Timeline of LGBT history

Latest comment: 11 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Timeline of LGBT history's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "usc.edu":

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 12:43, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Translation Opportunity

Latest comment: 11 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The Spanish version of this article is much better. We should translate it.  :~Maiya78 09:25, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Western LGBT history

Latest comment: 10 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

This article should be renamed "Timeline of Western LGBT history," or it should at least make note of articles such as Homosexuality in Japan#Ancient Japan and Homosexuality in China#Traditional views of homosexuality in China. DOR (HK) (talk) 06:28, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

I completely agree with this. There is NOTHING about ancient India which had a very rich and supporting understanding of variant sexual identities. The title of this article really must be changed. http://www.galva108.org/ Judderwocky (talk) 04:24, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

2014: Croatia and Malta

Latest comment: 9 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Croatia and Malta passed civil partnership bills. 47.64.234.44 (talk) 20:08, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

2014: Luxembourg

Latest comment: 9 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Luxembourg parliament passed a same-sex marriage bill. 47.64.234.44 (talk) 20:08, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

{{request edit}}

Latest comment: 9 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hey there! I am writing to request an edit to reference 378 for this page. Can we update this to link directly to: http://www.stephgrantphotography.com/blog/shannon-seema-indian-lesbian-wedding-los-angeles-ca/ ? This links directly to the photographer who shot the the first Indo-American lesbian wedding, as opposed to a site of someone who does not have the rights to these photos.

Let me know if I can provide any other information, or answer any questions!

Thanks, Amy

  • Not implemented. Given the time and edits from when you posted the request the reference number has changed. Please resubmit. – S. Rich (talk) 23:42, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

i suggest to delete this chapter

Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion
966 – Foundation of Poland, which never criminalized homosexuality throughout its history (see 1835 and 1932).

i don't see how it's related to the topic except as an attempt of some pole to glorify their country94.154.66.240 (talk) 05:13, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

Problem with entry for 1945

Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The entry for 1945 begins as follows:

"1945 – Upon the liberation of Nazi concentration camps by Allied forces, those interned for homosexuality are not freed, but required to serve out the full term of their sentences under Paragraph 175 ..."

The words required to serve out the full term of their sentences under Paragraph 175 imply that the gays in Nazi concentration camps sent there for gay activities had all been subject to due process, convicted and sentenced by a competent court of law. Was that actually the case, or had some - perhaps most - been sent straight to concentration camps by the Gestapo on the basis of gossip? Clarification would be useful. Norvo (talk) 20:37, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Brunei anti-LGBT legislation

Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

--78.151.73.207 (talk) 21:10, 1 January 2016 (UTC) can someone please add this in . http://www.advocate.com/world/2014/04/30/brunei-phasing-antigay-law-will-soon-allow-death-stoning --78.151.73.207 (talk) 21:10, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

2nd Century - Relevance of bullet point

Latest comment: 8 years ago2 comments1 person in discussion

Second bullet point: "165 - Christian martyr Giustino writes: "We have learned that..." What does child prostitution have to do with LGBT history? --Eddylyons (talk) 21:35, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Seriously, Mister Author, I want this taken out of the article. It's irrelevant and insulting. --Eddylyons (talk) 21:57, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Very Eurocentric

Latest comment: 7 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Surely there is some scholarly work out there regarding LGBT history in the Americas, Asia and Africa? --69.30.62.114 (talk) 23:43, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Still a problem. Asian, African, and pre-colonial American civilizations are simply absent from this timeline.   — C M B J   21:32, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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  • This article needs a lot of work. Many of the editors need to learn the proper methods for editing before they make changes to the article. Juri Koll (talk) 22:39, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

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