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Latest comment: 3 months ago31 comments8 people in discussion
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose credited her name only in american netflix film - Jjpachano (talk) 22:05, 13 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
Her English credited name in all recent press which is usually approved by publicists and artists managers is being cited as Yun Jee Kim. Shouldn't we follow what majority press standards in English is using, vs. Korean transliteration which is less reliable? 75.82.18.94 (talk) 21:04, 16 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
We often use [1] to try and prove what is used. You ideally need numbers to prove WP:COMMONNAME. An also acceptable alternative is going through the first few pages of Google News or similar and counting which stories use which spellings yourself. E.g. "10 sites use X spelling, 15 sites use Y spelling, so we should use Y". If you do that, I'll support the move, and I think it's likely the move will pass. toobigtokale (talk) 22:52, 16 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
How do you know if the capitalization should be "YunJee Kim" (with capital J)? It could be "Yunjee Kim" (with lowercase j). She wrote "𝕐𝕌ℕ𝕁𝔼𝔼 𝕂𝕀𝕄" in all caps on her Instagram account, so there is no clear way to see if she prefers the J capitalized of not. 172.56.232.146 (talk) 00:16, 17 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
If there is no personal preference, and no established English spelling, hyphenate the syllables, with only the first syllable capitalized (e.g., Hong Gil-dong). If you can prove that there is no established english spelling, then yes, preference can work. However, in this case, there is probably some spelling that is more common than others given that the subject has coverage in the West. toobigtokale (talk) 00:18, 17 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
Wait, does If there is no personal preference, and no established English spelling actually mean that an established English spelling takes precedence over personal preference? 172.56.232.146 (talk) 00:30, 17 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
Yes. For example, the article Cleopatra is not her official title, "Cleopatra VII Thea Philopator". Her WP:COMMONNAME is "Cleopatra". Common name is a very powerful policy; it tends to be the main determiner in article titles. toobigtokale (talk) 00:34, 17 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
If proof of personal preference is helpful in expediting this request, I can provide that. I actually made this request as part of Yun Jee Kim's US managers at B&C Content. I just need to know where to send a letter of proof.
It's not that helpful until someone establishes WP:COMMONNAME. I've already stated how one can prove it, it only requires like 3-5 mins of work. toobigtokale (talk) 04:05, 17 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
Understood, thanks. Going through first few pages of Google News over 30+ different sites use "Yun Jee Kim" in recent news in major English language press related to the movie LIFT, including sources like Getty Images and industry trades like Hollywood Reporter, Deadline, etc.
By comparison, approximately 15 different sites use "Kim Yoon-ji" in referring to the same individual. There are also several sites which use this name referring to different individuals, the mother of an Olympic athlete by name of "Kim Yoon-ji" other actors and individual tiktokers and social media profiles that are unrelated. 75.82.18.94 (talk) 02:17, 20 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
It doesn't give me the highest feeling of confidence when it's "first few pages" (doesn't enable us to establish a %), "30+", or "approximately". Normally a list of links is good practice too. I'm willing to do a weak support Yun Jee Kim because this isn't a high-stakes move, but this is disappointing. toobigtokale (talk) 02:37, 20 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
Sorry.. I'm new to this. Listing out here:
Different Site Results on Google News for Yun Jee Kim, first 4 pages:
Different Site Results on Google News for Kim Yoon-ji, first 4 pages (excluding site referring to different individuals such as Yoon Ji On, Kim Yoon Jin)
On the English Wikipedia, we look at English-language reliable sources to establish WP:COMMONNAME. You may need to take a closer read of the policy. toobigtokale (talk) 11:01, 23 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
Unless it's according to her agency since she still based in korea - Jjpachano (talk) 14:24, 23 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
No my friend that doesn't change anything. Did you read the common name policy? I really recommend that you do in detail. toobigtokale (talk) 20:23, 23 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
Relisting comment: Consensus is leaning towards moving, but it is not sufficiently solid for me to feel confident moving this given that this discussion has not yet been relisted - doing so now to allow evidence and relevant guidelines like Wikipedia:Naming conventions (people) to be considered. BilledMammal (talk) 20:50, 20 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
Oppose It is exactly the same name either way, it is just ordered for presentation per whatever manual of style a publication uses. It is the same WP:COMMONNAME, just styled in the way Koreans would style the name presentation. This article is about a "South Korean singer and actress". We should present the name as they would in South Korea. A redirect is needed at Yun Jee Kim and other renderings of the Korean name pointing to this article to cover the other name order. Geraldo Perez (talk) 17:15, 22 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
"ji" is not exactly the same as "jee". Even if you think it doesn't matter, there are Koreans who would care how their name is presented. Name order is influenced by common name, there is precedent for that, per Syngman Rhee and not Yi Seung-man or something. toobigtokale (talk) 21:29, 22 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
This is a Korean-related topic so Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Korean) applies to this article. Unless the subject is known to prefer otherwise, family name should be written first. Some individuals have shown a preference for Western name order and their article name reflects that. For this article to use Western name order instead of the convention for Korean names, we would need to show the subject has a preference to do that. Geraldo Perez (talk) 22:03, 22 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
Just in case you missed it, note that the proof (list of links) and my support came after the relisting comment. toobigtokale (talk) 23:17, 22 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
Echoing @Toobigtokale, does the previously submitted list address your concerns?
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
