Talk:Jeff Novitzky

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edit warring

As semi protection was not sufficient to stop the disruption of this edit war, I have increased to full protection. Please remember that this is a WP:BLP and that YouTube is generally not a reliable source. BLP's require high quality sourcing. YouTube is generally insufficient. Please discuss the contents and sourcing on the talk page. -- Dlohcierekim (talk) 22:27, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

"Golden Snitch" nickname

I would very much like to argue that this is a valid, timely and relevant nickname that is not meant to be derogatory, defamatory or disrespectful. Below I have listed some recent articles sourced from internet sites that refer to Mr. Novitzky as the "Golden Snitch.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/Breen-What-Exactly-is-Jeff-Novitzkys-Deal-With-Jon-Jones-130849< "During the Rogan interview, he even seems to enjoy the discussion of the nickname “The Golden Snitch,” given to him by Brendan Schaub." ""In this matter, it doesn’t even matter if Jones is being truthful and he unwittingly took turinabol, because “The Golden Snitch’s” actions are so incongruous with his past deeds and persona.""

http://www.punditarena.com/mma/ccunningham/watch-ufcs-jeff-novitsky-optimistic-for-nick-diazs-return-in-the-near-future/ "fight is just not there, Jeff ‘the Golden Snitch’ Novitsky made it clear in an appearance on The Joe Rogan Experience that he believes"

It is my opinion that this appears to be a real and valid nickname and not vandalism and as such should be included as fact in this Wikipedia page.

Ntmg (talk) 23:00, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

Welp. They're probably closer to what we need than YouTube. Don't know those sites and cannot vouch for them. -- Dlohcierekim (talk) 23:11, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

Regarding the whole issue of the golden snitch nickname. some detail and clarification

* The source: Brendan Schaub who “created” the nickname is at best a minor celebrity and comedian. He referred to Novitzky as “the golden snitch” on a podcast by Joe Rogan that is generally comedy focused and that nickname has been perpetuated on the whole only by Schaub, Rogan and a handful of people on the Sherdog MMA Message Boards. It is a small joke between a limited number of people, and based on his recent video where Schaub uses alexa/siri to do an internet search theres every reason to believe that the first person to make the edit was Schaub himself. For a nickname to stand in encyclopedia content there would have to be demonstration of widespread adoption, beyond a comedy podcast and a handful of people on internet message boards.

* Notable media – to demonstrate some sort of widespread adoption of the nickname, nuetral, notable media sources would be needed. By notable I mean top tier MMA media, MMA Fighting, Bloody Elbow, MMA Junkie, or for instance the UFC Section of Fox sports. Adoption of the name that falls outside of Rogans podcast, sherdog forums and twitter. It needs also to have some sort of independence so for instance “Novitzky appeared on Joe rogans podcast where brendan schaub referered to him as...” is a secondary source merely parroting what has already been said on Rogan’s podcast so is not demonstrating widespread adoption. Blog sites, fan sites, clickbait sites like Bjpenn.com, etc are not reliable sources (see MMA:Notability), and Sherdog is barely notable outside of fightfinder. the likes of punditarena again are not notable media sites, and even if they were, it is a secondary source merely parroting what was said on the podcast.

* Finally, the nickname doesnt even make sense. Novitzky was employed by the IRS/FDA and now by USADA and nowhere was “snitching” even part of the requirements. In fact, if you listen to the latest Joe Rogan podcast with Novitkzy this is addressed in the opening minutes and Joe Rogan himself says “No, the nickname makes no sense, the golden snitch really is Victor Conte”. When even the people who created the nickname admit it makes no sense and should be applied to somebody different entirely, then again, it fails completely to fill criteria. Dimspace (talk) 17:04, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Basically if you can find notable media (MMAFighting, MMAJunkie, BLoodyElbow, Fox etc), where they are making direct reference to Novitzky as "the golden snitch" without it being secondary (ie. not just referring to his appearance on the Joe Rogan show) then we can move forward. Dimspace (talk) 17:05, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

MOS:NICKNAME. A quick google search for "Jeff Novitzky" vs "Jeff Novitzky Golden Snitch" shows that he does not use the nickname himself in his daily routine as a person of public interest, and that he is not referred to by this nickname by the majority of media outlets when they report about his functions as a person of public interest. In the few instances where it was mentioned at all, the nickname itself and the oddity surrounding it was the subject of the reporting, no instance could be found where the nickname was just used as a matter of course. Thus overall, I can not recognize any notability in this nickname. In general, however, whether a nickname makes logical sense or not, or whether its creator is a "major" or just a "minor" celebrity (or no celebrity at all), or whether something originates from a comedy-oriented versus a serious podcast or any other form of media is all utterly irrelevant for the question of the subject notability. The Youtube video: Reliability is created by verifiability. In this case, the podcast episode actually qualifies as a reliable source, as the subject in question makes a verified personal appearance on a video that holds up to the the legal criteria of copyright as it is original content from a verified channel. So it can't just be dismissed. That podcast is a reliable and verifiable source. --NoCitNeed (talk) 22:28, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

The nickname has been acknowledged by the subject, and that has been confirmed in a reliable industry source. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 10:37, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

Acknowledging the existence of something does not equal notability. Nobody ever denied or doubted the mere existence of the nickname. --NoCitNeed (talk) 14:06, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

The fact that there is a reliable source confirming this, shows its notability. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 14:43, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

That is not a primary source referring to him by that name. It is a secondary source that is simply parroting what was said on the Joe Rogan show in the context of a discussion peice about the show. That is not a primary source independently referring to him by the nickname Dimspace (talk) 02:24, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Novitzky himself discussed the nickname on the JRE Podcast MMA show #53 at the 1 hour 41 minute mark which was published on Dec 27, 2018. It should be part of this page. Guywithacoolname (talk) 01:11, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 6 January 2018

150.31.28.250 (talk) 16:53, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Add nickname AKA The Golden Snitch after the name

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit protected}} template. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 22:18, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

YouTube not reliable?

How is a YouTube video night reliable when the subject is in the actual video? and attests to the claims and agrees with the nickname. The guy is in the video. It's probably the best source when the person in the video is the person the Wikipedia page is about and he actually points this out? It seems one of the administrators here wants to make this his personal website and keeps reverting, maybe we should open a case against the administrator, and get him kicked off his high horse. I will file a WP:RFAR if you guys can just give me a heads up that you will also raise your concerns about the admin who keeps reverting the page, going against the consensus. UserHerName (talk) 21:33, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Have you actually watched his latest interview with Rogan? In that novitkzy clearly says it makes no sense, and Rogan the host even agrees with him and says "no it makes no sense, really the golden snitch should be victor conte".. have you actually watched the youtube video? Again, a youtube video is not a source that demonstrates widespread adoption of a nickname. Find reliable sources that refer to him using that nickname (where they arent parroting the actual interview). The Rules on biographies of living persons are very clear. A joke nickname used on a comedy orientated podcast is not demonstrating widespread adoption. I fully support you filing a WP:RFAF, do it. Meanwhile read up on BLP rules. Dimspace (talk) 20:38, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

Right here we go. Youtube. - I have taken the time to transcribe it.

JR "I have to ask you, do you mind the nickname the golden snitch"

JN "Its the first thing I was going to bring up with you,. this golden snitch bullshit"

JR "I just want to say its not my nickname, its Brendan Schaubs, he came up with it all on his own"

NJ "Its all good, its all good"

JN "People in the office were calling me it and I researched it and it was like Harry Potter and I thought what they hell does this have to do with me. And about a month ago, somebody lets me know, check out wikipedia, and you go that page and now it says my formal name Jeffrey John Novitzky and now it says "AKA the golden snitch" (he looks pretty annoyed tbh)

JR "Laughs"

JN "so last week Donna Marcolini, 15 year employee of the UFC, now works with me. She sends me a text - tells the Alexa story where alexa reads out the wikipedia entry"

JR "Laughs"

JR "Thats hilarious, Oh Schaub"

JN "Yeh, thanks a lot Schaub"

detours slightly and then

JN "my positioning unlike the name the golden snitch is as an advocate to our athletes, to make sure our athletes are succesful under the program, not that they fail under the program"

JR "Its definately teh wrong nickname, but its catchy but the real golden snitch is Victor Conte, hes the golden snitch right? Because hes actually a snitch"

JN "I can see that,"

JR "He was a guy who was giving guys steroids, you were a guy that was always catching people"

JN "Correct"

JR "So its the wrong moniker"

JN "Correct, giving them steroids and then talking about it afterwards, snitching"

JR "Yes, thats a snitch, thats teh golden snitch"

JR "yes, not you man"

So its VERY clear from that that a) Novitzky isnt overly happy about it, and more importantly b) that in long discussion both he and Rogan agree that it makes no sense whatsoever. However, making no sense does not preclude it from being accepted as a nickname. Plenty of people have nicknames that on the surface make little sense. BUT, for encyclopedia purposes there still needs to be a demonstration of widespread adoption beyond secondary reports simply parotting the same podcast. Dimspace (talk) 20:56, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

secondary source added in the citation. The current lead should be fine, further sources can be found, in articles where he is called a "golden snitch" it makes it nonsensical when they try to google and find the answer, the objective here is to find an answer most folks will come to the Wikipedia and have a better understanding of it, in the MMA community it is very common knowledge and most MMA fans will still use the Golden Snitch nickname, the only way to address this is here, because it gives a clear-cut reasonv - his Alexa story will not make any sense if he mentions it to anyone else. Maybe something should be included that Brendan Schaub was the one who used this nickname in jest. It has now become a pertinent historical reference which should be included. Over a million people watch the podcast, it is only becoming more and more wide-spread. A consensus has already been established, outside of Wikipedia. If we can't move forward with this it will only result in revert-war and I think I might open a case in wp: ArbCom (dispute resolution, before you revert now we have to take this to the WP Dispute resolution noticeboard) those who keep undoing are being been disruptive, now UserHerName (talk) 10:20, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

Nickname, again

EXCLUDE NICKNAME:

MOS:NICKNAME says, "Nicknames and other aliases included must be frequently used by reliable sources in reference to the subject." Editors largely agree that the nickname is not commonly used in reliable sources. There is a clear consensus to exclude the "Golden Snitch" nickname.

Cunard (talk) 07:40, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Background: there's been a long-standing issue with this article over whether to include the "Golden Snitch" nickname. Previous discussions have not established a consensus to include it. The nickname originates from a comedy sketch, and other than the comedy sketch, it has had two other mentions cited: a podcast detailed above and one article recently found by UserHerName.

This then leads to two questions:

• Is the nickname sufficiently notable to include in the lead of the article; and
• Is the nickname sufficiently notable to include in the article at all.

EDIT: Adding a quick signature here, since I hadn't realised the RfC bot stops transcluding at the first sig. Marianna251TALK 12:07, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

Note about closing

Following discussion, UserHerName and I have agreed that neither of us will close this RfC. Any other participants are welcome to close the discussion whenever they feel appropriate. Marianna251TALK 14:21, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Support

• Support It is well known in the MMA community, even Jeff himself uses Alexa here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwK8V4N6B6g and clearly can be seen laughing, and saying thanks (Brendan) Schaub, I have suggested adding that Brendan Schaub used it as a nickname, the podcast is watched by about 2 million people. The one in which Jeff himself came on is currently watched over 800,000 times. I think a little clarification makes sense here, it's a pertinent historical reference.

Supplementary:

• MMA core: https://www.mma-core.com/videos/Brendan_Schaub_IG_Post_Repost_joerogan_If_you_ask_Amazon_Alexa_about_Jeff_Novitzky_it_tells_you_his_nickname_th/10204038

• Brandon's Instagram post with over 200 comments, and 140,000 views: https://www.instagram.com/p/BdiQMB7hd5J/?utm_source=ig_embed

• JREFAN.com: http://jrefan.com/the-joe-rogan-experience-episode-799-with-brendan-schaub-and-bryan-callen/

I'll add more seccondry sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by UserHerName (talk • contribs) 11:06, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

Oppose

• Oppose per my comment below. If further references could be provided showing that the nickname is now frequently used in reliable sources, I may change my mind, but my own searches have just shown a lot of forum chat. Marianna251TALK 10:50, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose Wikipedia is not a fansite to craft the preferred narrative. Let me know when this is discussed in The New York Times. Chris Troutman (talk) 11:38, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose Not in "common use". Collect (talk) 14:24, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose - Summoned by bot. The nickname is not commonly used in reliable sources. Meatsgains^(talk) 17:24, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose based on the sourcing presented thus far. (Summoned by bot) Snow ^{let's rap} 05:33, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Discussion

• MOS:NICKNAME states: "Nicknames and other aliases included must be frequently used by reliable sources in reference to the subject." In my opinion, this clearly does not meet that requirement. Its origin was dubious, being from a comedy sketch, but that could be overlooked if it had been adopted by Novitsky/frequently used since then. However, there's only one reference that has been provided so far which actually uses the nickname as a nickname. Marianna251TALK 10:50, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.