Talk:Isabela Merced

Citizenship and nationality

She was born in the U.S. and claims she is also Peruvian by right of her mother being Peruvian. Usually children must make a legal application to gain a right of citizenship based on a parent after they gain adulthood and this is not automatically granted. Can't assume she is actually a dual national based on her beliefs. Also what goes in lead intro is nationality when she became notable and dual nationality is generally noted only when significant notable activities have occurred in both countries. Geraldo Perez (talk) 14:28, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

Yes, she has dual nationalities and has an official peruvian ID. You can check it out her https://www.msn.com/es-pe/entretenimiento/celebrity/isabela-moner-ya-tiene-dni-y-lo-celebra-en-instagram/ar-AApfRGx and here https://www.fanaticosdelcine.pe/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/imp-576x1024.png 200.107.159.193 (talk) 12:54, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

All notable activities are as an American. She was born, resides and works in the US. American is what goes in intro sentence per WP:BIOLEAD context. Mention has Peruvian citizenship in the personal life section and list in infobox. Mostly, though, Peruvian is irrelevant to her notability. Geraldo Perez (talk) 18:37, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Middle name

I found another ref that might confirm the middle name, though it doesn't explicitly state that, and I'm not sure if it's serious or a joke as some commenters say: https://twitter.com/isabelamoner/status/736873917755838464 – nyuszika7h (talk) 21:16, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

I'd really prefer a solid secondary source for this... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 21:42, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

If the Romanian source [1] is an official outlet of Nickelodeon/Viacom, the info there should be considered as coming from a reliable source. They should know the birth info of their acting talent. It would be better to get the info on an English language site though. Geraldo Perez (talk) 21:59, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

I don't trust that Nickelodeon Romania got that info from an "official bio" – I'm afraid they just plucked that info off the internet. Even Moner's DOB is hard to secondarily source – neither TV Guide nor Hollywood.com even has her DOB. So I'm skeptical that Nickelodeon Romania got that info through "official" channels. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 22:02, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

I'm leery too as it doesn't show up on any other Viacom outlet, which is strange. The twitter source does not make a direct statement that that is her middle name, I read it as stating that Isabella is not her real name and Yolanda is. May be true but it is ambiguous. I defer to your judgement on this. Geraldo Perez (talk) 22:09, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

The Nick source is real, and is considered reliable. Xboxmanwar (talk) 02:23, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

WP:BLPPRIVACY trumps this – if Moner wanted her middle name widely disseminated, it would be available from multiple secondary sources. In the absence of this, there is no compelling reason to include a possibly shaky middle name in a Wikipedia article. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 03:11, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

That doesn't make sense if its published on an official Nickelodeon website. Xboxmanwar (talk) 05:07, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

See above: it's unclear how "official" that info is (i.e. it may have just been pulled off the internet by an intern). The fact that, as Geraldo Perez points out, no other Viacom outlet repeats the info doesn't inspire confidence. The bottom line: including the middle name is of trivial importance, and under WP:BLPPRIVACY it stays out unless it has been "widely published by reliable sources". --IJBall (contribs • talk) 06:12, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Another hint. Xboxmanwar (talk) 07:31, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

That adds to the problem and matches her ambiguous twitter. She is saying Yolanda is her real name and Isabela isn't. If she straight out stated on her verified twitter what her full name was we could probably consider that as meeting WP:BLPPRIVACY needs as her being OK with people knowing it and reliable as a WP:SPS about herself. She is being coy with the info indicating that maybe she wants to keep the info private. Geraldo Perez (talk) 13:46, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Her full name is Isabel Yolanda Moner Pizarro. Those are her 2nd name and her 2nd last name. She published a History on her Instagram when she received her peruvian ID or DNI (Documento Nacional de Identidad). Yes, she has dual nationalities and has an official peruvian ID. You can check it out her https://www.msn.com/es-pe/entretenimiento/celebrity/isabela-moner-ya-tiene-dni-y-lo-celebra-en-instagram/ar-AApfRGx and here https://www.fanaticosdelcine.pe/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/imp-576x1024.png 200.107.159.193 (talk) 12:54, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

The Nut Job 2

The film's article uses this tweet as source, though unfortunately it's not from a verified account. nyuszika7h (talk) 19:52, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

This article confirms her appearance in The Nut Job 2, though it doesn't mention the role. nyuszika7h (talk) 19:58, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

And here's another one (it doesn't mention the character's name either). nyuszika7h (talk) 20:02, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

@Nyuszika7H: The last two are probably enough that this info can be added to the text in the 'Career' section (using those two as the sources). I'm still not sure it needs to be added to the 'Filmography' table yet, though, until we get something more solid... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 22:15, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Discography

In my opinion, there should be page about her album and info about featings. Isa has feated in "My only one" by Sebastian Yatra. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.71.84.241 (talk) 22:51, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

We only include 'Discography' sections for artists who chart. Moner is primarily an actress, and not a singer. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 00:09, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

I have removed the 'Discography' section again, for the reasons outlined above, and replaced it with a single sentence about her 2015 album release in the text – that is sufficient mention of this at this time, as her career as a singer is not currently notable as she has not charted anywhere. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 23:18, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

Discography redux

She is a singer several years, she has sold copies of her albums and digital premieres on platforms like all respected singers, everything are covers and own songs she has done can be found on Spotify, Apple, among others. I demand that her work as a singer be valued please, people who don't know her still have the right to read everything she produced from her labels (Broadway Records and Republic Records). _Album debut: Stopping Time - 2015 - (12 songs, 1 is an own single). _Music collaboration: "My Only One" - 2018 _Music collaboration: "Lista de Espera" - 2018 _Song for her movie: "I'll Stay" - 2018 _Musical single: "Papi" - 2019 _Extended Play (EP): "The Better Half of Me" - 2020 - (Five musical deliveries her own). _Song: "Don't Go" - 2020 _Song: "Caliente Navidad" - 2020 _Song: "Agonía" - 2022

In the biographical articles exposed in the free encyclopedia Wikipedia of many well-known people there are much smaller discographies, and they are available for reading. 2800:484:3F80:F100:41DB:2254:451B:53B7 (talk) 16:17, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

 Note: This IP has now been temp blocked for disruptively removing other editors' comments... As to the "merits" of the comment, nothing has changed since my above comment – Merced still has not charted, which means her singing is simply a side-interest at this time, not a notable career/occupation. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:31, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Date of birth

Moved from User talk:IJBall § Very fast

Hey there. Surprised by your very fast escalation ("I'm challenging your edit so WP:STATUSQUO goes into effect") on the edits at Isabela Moner. I see that you are a highly experienced editor, so I'm going to assume you've been in a running battle with a someone recently and may have already been at a heightened sense of awareness when you added your comment. Not to worry, we all have those days. Given that you and I are not in a running battle, I thought I'd come here for followup.

I reiterate my comment from a couple days ago, in the edit summary, that the "ref isn't gone". You are right to point out that MOS:LEADCITE does not preclude having refs in the lead, but it also says that they are not required. I would follow by adding that the presence of the ref in the body, as with many many thousands of other biography articles that fill the body (rather than the lead) with refs to support birth days and birth place, are done that way because they are not "Complex, current, or controversial subjects" (per MOS:LEADCITE). Perhaps there was some controversy in the past, when Moner was first starting out and her age was hard to pin down? Again, you've been improving this article for some time, so you will know more about past issues. It looks like there are now various sources confirming her age, making this just-another-article, like thousands of other biography articles, that are not troubled by issues that cause the average reader to be distrustful of the lead, leaving them confident that the supporting refs will be found in the body.

I would normally let items like this pass and ignore the Moner article forever, but I was concerned by the reaction of a respected editor (wouldn't have cared about it if you were just some random editor with a handful of edits) and wanted to make sure that I followed up. Look forward to your thoughts. Jmg38 (talk) 17:26, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

@Jmg38: There are several issues here. One – her DOB is mentioned nowhere else but in the lede of the article, so your edit summary that said "ref isn't gone, it goes in body of article" is pretty much entirely beside the point, because the DOB was not referenced anywhere in the article. However, even if her DOB has been included under the 'Personal life', and referenced there, I would still insist that it be referenced in the lede. I'm guessing you don't deal with WP:BLPs nearly as often as I do, but the number one "vandalism target" at BLPs is WP:DOB vandalism, so it is extremely important that it be very clearly referenced, in the lede, so that such vandalism can quickly be corrected.

In conclusion, MOS:LEADCITE is very clear that "Any statements about living persons that are challenged or likely to be challenged must have an inline citation every time they are mentioned, including within the lead." This is exactly the situation here. Also, MOS:LEADCITE is probably the single most misunderstood and misapplied MOS in the entire project – it absolutely does not say "No citations in lede", and I will continue to push back against any editors who interpret it that way. In fact, this mania that there be "no cites in the lede" is pretty much the definition of a WP:ILIKEIT edit, without any basis in policy or guideline at all. (And I'd argue that a "no cites in the lede" approach is actually contra-policy...)

One last thing – you probably should have posted this to Talk:Isabela Moner and pinged me, and not posted this here, as this discussion is directly relevant there. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:40, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

(edit conflict) (talk page watcher) Please see WP:BRD. You were bold by making your edit; however, IJBall challenged that edit and reverted it. Now the onus is on you to discuss the issue, as you are doing so here. Preferably, you would discuss the issue on the article's talk page, but here is fine as well. Until a WP:CONSENSUS can be reached, the article must stay in the WP:STATUSQUO version prior to the disputed edits. That's really all there is it, and what IJBall was saying. Amaury (talk | contribs) 17:44, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Courtesy pings for IJBall and Jmg38. Discussion moved from IJBall's talk page. Amaury (talk | contribs) 17:58, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Any information that would normally need to be sourced that is unique to the lead needs to be referenced in the lead. I don't expect to do a search of all the sources when checking lead data, at the most I'd expect to see that same info in the body with a reference before I'd be OK with the lead summary info not being sourced. Birth info is a major vandalism target. Making it easy to validate changes significantly improves the ability of people to fight vandalism. I strongly object to removing directly attached references that directly support a person's birthdate. Geraldo Perez (talk) 18:21, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Last name

Changed last name [2]. Page should be renamed.--Jimi Henderson (talk) 10:46, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

Needs more sourcing confirming this. And then it it should go through a WP:RM. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 12:15, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

Isn't that enough? Here it is directly said about this and there is already a reason to rename.--Jimi Henderson (talk) 17:29, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

Using the WP:RM#CM process heads off any issues of WP:COMMONNAME vs. WP:IDENTITY which will crop up. A formal consensus to change the article name with a move discussion heads off a lot of future problems. No idea from that article whether that will just be her new performing name or she actually legally changed her name. At this time all her credits and work history is as Isabela Moner". Geraldo Perez (talk) 17:40, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

That's the important point – the article should not be moved unless and until she is actually credited under the new name. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:33, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

Note that it is very clear from the last paragraph of the 'Career' section that Moner has not changed her name, that "Merced" is simply a "stage name" (and possibly just for her musical career, not her acting one), and therefore there is no justification to change either the title of the article, or the primary name in the article/lede, at all. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:40, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

Moner is credited as "Isabela Merced" in the film, Let it Snow. Note that on the Netflix actor page she is still listed as "Isabela Moner"[3] but in all other press releases,[4] trailers and in the film itself she is credited as "Isabela Merced". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Notanyproblems (talk • contribs) 09:26, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

Still too soon to move. A second crediting that way would then likely justify a WP:RM discussion. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 13:17, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

Her new music and her new film and all the articles related to either use the new name. It's not too soon to move. Jenny Jankel (talk) 22:43, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

Then do it right, and open an WP:RM. I, for one, will "oppose" for now, because it's WP:TOOSOON to see if this "name change" will "stick", or if it's just a passing fad... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 22:44, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

How many celebrity name changes can you name which were "just a passing fad"? The only ones I can think of which didn't last are divorcees, and "Merced" is not a married name. Jenny Jankel (talk) 14:55, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

She herself has said she has not legally changed her name. But I've told you what to do – if you're serious, you'll open the WP:RM. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:36, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Legality is irrelevant. Jenny Jankel (talk) 13:13, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

Partially correct. For naming the article WP:COMMONNAME is what we go by, legal name is irrelevant. For what goes in the intro sentence for first mention of the person, we use the legal name first followed by other names used. Geraldo Perez (talk) 02:04, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 13 March 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Jerm (talk) 14:53, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

---

Isabela Moner → Isabela Merced – She changed her name five months ago, and reliable sources have used the new name since, as have her film and music credits, her Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, etc. It's no longer too WP:RECENT and is clearly the name she wants to be known by professionally. She has not legally changed her name, but as her stage name is the clear WP:COMMONNAME (just like all celebrities ever) it should be the title of the article. 51.146.28.34 (talk) 19:53, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

• Wait. I would like to see about three credited movie/TV roles under the new name before we can say it "sticks". --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:56, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose for now. Most of her credits are still under her original name so can't say her new stage name is the most common way she is known yet. She has not changed her legal name. Geraldo Perez (talk) 20:23, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

The number of credits is not relevant to this discussion. The old credits can't be retroactively changed. And as pointed out above, her legal name also has no relevance. We want the WP:COMMONNAME. 51.146.28.34 (talk) 22:28, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Number of credits and references in reliable sources is relevant to establishing what COMMONNAME actually is. Until she is more know by her newly created stage name than her legal name we should stick with her legal name as the article title. If she had changed her legal name then WP:NAMECHANGES would be more obviously applicable, but she hasn't changed her legal name. Geraldo Perez (talk) 22:57, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Oppose - Her most recent film Let It Snow (2019 film) has her credited as "Isabela Merced" but obvious;y that's it, There are a good few sources stating her rename however I'm inclined to keep as is and revisit this end of this year to next year, Her wp:COMMONNAME is Isabela Moner and so should continue to be that until she's credited more under her new name. –Davey2010^Talk 20:36, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose for now. Has 22 credits with real name, just one short and one film with her new stage name – no track record yet to show that she will stay with it. Give her a chance to add another couple of credits, then look at making the change. Jmg38 (talk) 23:17, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 16 March 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 08:07, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

---

Isabela Moner → Isabela Merced – A year since the previous RM, and media usage has all been "Isabela Merced", likewise for all her music released in the meantime, and her upcoming film credits. This is no longer too recent to gauge. Clear WP:COMMONNAME. 90.249.34.116 (talk) 09:44, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

• Comment – You can't just claim "common name": you have to demonstrate it. You have listed one recent (primary) source. We need to see a lot more recent secondary sourcing using the new name before it's clear that it's the WP:COMMONNAME. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 13:51, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
• Support – A quick Google search confirms the OP's assertions. Jenny Jankel (talk) 15:42, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose: That is her stage name, not her legal name. If she got married and changed to her last name to that because that's what her spouse's last name was, that would be a different story, since then it would be her legal name, but that's not the case here. Amaury • 17:26, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

• There's no need to use the legal name, we use the common name. We use Lady Gaga, not Stefani Germanotta. —El Millo (talk) 17:56, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
  • That's different because she is clearly known as Lady Gaga. That is not the case here. We use a combination of legal name and what a person is primarily credited as. Amaury • 18:04, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
    • I'm sorry but you won't find any policy that backs you up on that. 90.249.34.116 (talk) 17:50, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
      • I'm sorry, but I'm not going to take the words of an IP who only has five edits starting this move request in the first place. Amaury • 17:59, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

• Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 18:36, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
• Support I agree that this satisfies WP:NAMECHANGES now. There are very few recent sources on Google News that still say Moner. She has also been regularly credited under this name since 2019, which isn't nothing if you're not even 20. I don't see any reason to assume sources or credits will use the old name from here on out. Nohomersryan (talk) 21:42, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
• Support as nominated. Google search and news both show references to "Merced" instead of "Moner". Additionally, her instagram handle is also "Merced" now. —Saadrafiq4 (talk) 12:13, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Follow-up work after move

I'm a firm believe that for her career period before she changed her name, the article should refer to "Moner" not "Merced". IOW, it was "Moner" that was cast in 100 Things... (that's how she was credited), not "Merced". The article should only refer to her as "Merced", post-October 2019. (Incidentally, this is similar to how I think articles should handle BLP's who adopt a "married name" after marying.)

Does anyone else have any strong feelings about this?... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 02:47, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

I think it confusing to use different names. Even when talking about the past it is the same person's past. Credits should still be as credited, as that is historical record. I looked at the John Wayne article, a somewhat similar situation for a person who never changed his legal name but adopted a stage name. Article uses Wayne as name throughout and it made sense for it to do so. Geraldo Perez (talk) 03:14, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

The lede makes it clear that there are two names. It is honestly more confusing to, for example, refer to a person by their married name in the period before they were married. This situation is similar to that one. It's not akin to John Wayne, because he was only ever popularly known as "John Wayne". That is not the case for anyone who changes their name in the middle of their period of notability – in a case like this, I think it's impossible not to use both names. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 03:25, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

It is somewhat rare to change from a well-known professional name after a marriage, even if in the also uncommon case the legal name did change, so the issue generally doesn't come up that often. Tara Strong did have credits as "Tara Charendoff" before 2000 but that article has chosen to use Strong throughout, but then again it has been 20 years so she is much better known by her married name now. With Moner it is recent and she is more known as such in most of her older credits. My preference is to use Merced throughout now but when talking about old work note she was credited as Moner then and avoid the issue using pronouns when possible. Geraldo Perez (talk) 03:55, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

We should use a uniform name throughout the entire article, and ideally that should be based on WP:COMMONNAME... - Adolphus79 (talk) 03:23, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

Again, that is not always possible, nor does it always make sense (see the married name example). --IJBall (contribs • talk) 03:25, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

It is always possible, apart from when using direct quotes. "Merced" should be used throughout the article, just like all other Wikipedia celebrity articles. 90.249.202.41 (talk) 22:08, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Major concern

Isabella Merced has ventured into the music world faster than ever . and there is no page created for her albums for singles nor any song samples which is disappointing and people who read can't even get an insight of what kind of music she makes . I request that someone edit her musical page once and add her music samples and more pictures of her. Thank you 41.115.114.48 (talk) 12:47, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Not notable as a singer until she actually charts. And Wikipedia usually only has a limited number of pictures of subjects. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:04, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Birth and legal name

Reference in article gives full name as "Isabela Yolanda Moner Pizarro" based on an image of her Peruvian ID card in one source and an interview where she directly states Yolanda as her middle name in another. Middle name meets WP:BLPPRIVACY as she directly states it herself. WP:BLPPRIMARY suggests that an official ID card can't be used as a source, however. Spanish style dual surname is an issue. The US, where she was born, doesn't record dual surnames on birth certificates and the surname listed will generally be singular and match the paternal part of the Spanish surname. People emigrating to Spanish culture countries from non-Spanish culture countries will generally find their mother's maiden name tacked on to their foreign official name to form a new name for use in their new country, and something similar appears to have happened to Moner when she got her Peruvian ID card. I still expect all her American official papers, such as her passport, will have her American full name. We could list her Peruvian name in the lead as her legal name and keep her American birth name to match the name she was registered with at birth. Or we could keep them consistent and as she is listed as an American actress, stick with American names. I suggest the latter. Geraldo Perez (talk) 02:25, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Singer as notable occupation not supported

Following from #Discography above, she hasn't done anything notable as a singer. Her album has one fairly negative review and didn't chart. Not even close to meet the requirements of WP:NSINGER. She is an actress who dipped her toe into a singing carreer as many actors do likely depending on her acting fame to support a singing career. I suggest reflecting reality and removing singer and the musical artist module from the article and just leave the one mention of her attempt in the career section. Geraldo Perez (talk) 18:28, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

• Support that, obviously – we need to get away from the newbie/IP practice of labeling every actor who also sings (or dances) as an "actor and singer" (or "actor and dancer"). It actually needs to be shown to be an independent career, or even a significant independent revenue stream to be considered notable enough to include in the lede, etc. There's already enough "bloat" going on in the various WP:POPMUSIC articles as it is – we don't need to include the WP:FILMBIO articles in that too. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:52, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Role in Father of the Bride (2022)

I'm reading at the above article that the film was released today (June 16, 2022) on HBO Max. The article reveals Merced's role as Cora Herrera, not Sophie. With the film now serving as the WP:PRIMARY source for itself, I'm thinking the changes now made several times to this article on her role (from Sophie to Cora) are valid, assuming it correctly verifies with the credits in the film. If anyone has HBO Max (I don't have that, by the way), and has watched the film to verify Merced's credit is indeed Cora, there should be no objection. MPFitz1968 (talk) 02:00, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

Cora Herrera per 1:52:58 end credits of film. Geraldo Perez (talk) 02:26, 17 June 2022 (UTC)