Talk:Great Recession in Russia

This article is already wrong

The russian micex went up sept 19 by 26% and RTS went up same day by 20%. so this article is completely wrong already. 67.175.45.138 (talk) 16:11, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

• Is it over? How would you know? NVO (talk) 02:24, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
• So place the Sept 19 section there, don't just say it's wrong. Overall I agree that someone linked to the market, or who just dislikes Russia, is trying to spoil the image of Russian economics, though the troubles here look less frightening than that of the West. At least we have no need to buy out private banks. After all, we will show those commies from the west!:)) FeelSunny (talk) 17:14, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Update pls

Monday 06-Oct-2008 the RTS fell below the psychological limit of 1000... and in the first week of the October russian stock market was closed at least for a couple of times... think these things should be added. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.40.240.184 (talk) 19:16, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Neutrality and Merge proposal

This article seems featuring very strong anti-russian POV to me. It does not provide any souces on the causes of the 'Russian' crisis and overall portrays it as completely different to thу mortgage crisis. however, the main reason behind the fall of Russian SE is, after all, the huge lack of finansial resources, and decline in oil and gaz prices, which followed the withdrawal of funds from emerging markets and fall of manufacturing when the last stage of crisis in U.S. started. fall of Russian stocks price is not something sui generis, but is a part of world financial crisis. I therefore propose to merge this with 2008 World financial crisis article. FeelSunny (talk) 22:20, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Oppose merge. Clearly notable as a separate event: [1], [2], [3]. Colchicum (talk) 22:41, 10 October 2008 (UTC). And I might understand your grief, but the Russian market crashed, such is life. There is nothing anti-Russian in it. By the way, as of now the article doesn't even mention the most recent crash. Colchicum (talk) 23:00, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I am also opposing merge to Global financial crisis of September–October 2008, although it might be a daughter article to a section: too many Russia-specific information that are not important for the International article. I also see no indications of a bias, so I am removing the tag Alex Bakharev (talk) 07:31, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

The article was significantly improved since I added POV tag. However, I still think we should consider merge: Colchicum, you gave an example of ONE expert saying that financial crisis in Russia is sui generis. Both articles (from the same source) you used to prove crisis in Russia is caused by internal politics, are, in fact, saying the opposite. For example (I presume, you speak Russian): "весной, когда кризис уже обрел свои очертания на Западе и тихо вползал в Россию под личиной инфляции", "обвал российского рынка является прямым следствием американского финансового кризиса, перекинувшегося сначала на европейские рынки, а затем и на рынки развивающихся стран" - these are quotes from the articles you use. Please give more serious arguments against merge. PS. Please do not consider my "grief". I actually have no reasons for it, and, in any case, this is a matter of my private interest only.FeelSunny (talk) 09:18, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

The article needs to stay, because it is notable, however it must not be allowed to be used for outright nuttery which prevails in many other Russian articles, and it needs the attention of someone who is proficient in economics, Russian economics in particular, and needs to reflect the realities on the ground, such as there are no empty shelves in Moscow, the fact that most Russians don't use credit lines to make purchases, most Russians do not invest in stock markets and associated industries, and that whilst the top end of town may see capitalisation decrease that middle business is going to flourish due to their non-exposure to the credit problems. And it also needs to be mentioned that the problem with stock markets is intertwined with the global financial crisis, and that Russia is poised to come out of this crisis much better than most of the world. --Russavia ^{Dialogue Stalk me} 09:33, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes, however there is no such thing as Russian economics, the laws of the market are universal. The realities on the ground -- well, it is only the beginning. We will see. As of now the article doesn't say anything about empty shelves and doesn't have to do so. After all, this is about 2008 Russian financial crisis. It is mentioned that the problem is intertwined with the global financial crisis, don't worry. And it is WP:OR, WP:POV and WP:CBALL that Russia is poised to come out of this crisis much better than most of the world. In fact, many analysts think otherwise (again, not all of them). Colchicum (talk) 11:22, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

"Russia is poised to come out much better than most of the world" - any suggestions why? NVO (talk) 08:59, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Another thing, the timeline and quotes need to go; as they offer absolutely no encyclopaedic context. We can read newswires to get the latest happenings, what is needed is the objective analysis aspect by more neutral outside observers. --Russavia ^{Dialogue Stalk me} 09:37, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

No, the content of the timeline should be kept, though maybe not as a timeline. Carl Bildt's quote, on the other hand, is pretty much irrelevant, I agree. Colchicum (talk) 11:22, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Umm, the RTS Index is up to 800, which is a 25% up from where it was a week ago. Other indexes show the same dynamics. How comes I do not see it in a timeline then? Do I see a POV here, or is it the timeline is just a bad idea?FeelSunny (talk) 10:34, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Are you disabled or what? Update it if you wish. Note, however, that 800 is still less than a third of 2,498 in May, and now there is rising inflation and unemployment. Colchicum (talk) 12:16, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

I had to turn off my cell phone this Thursday. I'm one of the few who's hiring right now and the number of suddenly laid off or not-so-suddenly unpaid applicants is rising daily. The article right now is very weak in that it considers only financial markets, and only the visible stock market tip of an iceberg. It "seems" that there's nothing wrong apart from the traders' losses; did the unemployed come from outer space? I added some data on the collapse in metallurgy (it's deeper than reported but not everything can be reliably sourced). Someone should add the story on the October meltdown in inter-bank loan market, it's completely missing yet is critical to understand what's happening in November. NVO (talk) 07:17, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

There is no reason for the article's existence. There are no articles, e.g., for the UK financial crisis, or for any other country except Iceland (which has actually collapsed). That Russia should be singled out even though it is not even in recession, unlike the US, UK, Eurozone and others boggles my mind. The article should definitely be merged with the Global financial crisis of 2008. There should be a merge vote ASAP. Causantin (talk) 09:08, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Review for neutrality check

The article has been put under review for neutrality check as it seems to violate Wiki NPOV principles.

1. The header is misleading and does not match the article content. As the article address mostly stock market issues the header has to be changed to something like "2008 Russian stock market volatility" 2. The article does not adequately represent alternate points of view and uses mostly one-sided sources. The sources are cited in a biased way. 3. The article uses unsupported and highly speculative claims. As an example, the provided chart shows clearly that the claimed hypothesis on 'crisis' factors is false. The Russian stock market was going down synchronously with S&P index. So the introduction and backround parts have to be redone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.239.78.58 (talk) 07:37, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Proposing reformat from per-day to weekly or monthly headings

August and September are gone and seem like a history... life would not be so sweet ever. Shouldn't we consolidate all these daily bits into (at least) weekly or maybe even monthly headings? NVO (talk) 07:17, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

• Hindsight: it seems to me that persistent references to MICEX and RTS are somewhat misleading. Consider these two pieces of news:

October XX, MICEX decreased by 2 points, or

October XX, steel maker YY was reported operating at 30% below capacity, and negotiating 20% workforce layoff with unions.

which fits the definition of crisis better? MICEX and RTS are volatile by nature; recession is steady and does not care about MICEX. NVO (talk) 07:25, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Tss, we are not in a recession yet, right? AFAIK, government hopes we won't be during 2009. At least that's what Kudrin says. As to the matter, I think Global financial crisis of 2008–2009 is a very good example of stucturizing an article in a way close to what you propose. FeelSunny (talk) 19:46, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

• The government is NEVER in the recession. As for the mortals, все говорят, что мы вместе, все говорят, но не многие знают - в каком :)) NVO (talk) 20:05, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Counting the beans

What we have on hand, in more or less sequence of events:

• Prelude 2007 - August 2008. Preceding world crises, Mechel affair (already taken care of), bankrupt airlines, steady rise in Russian interest rates, drop in oil revenues.
• Stock exchange drop. This one is already abundant in the article. Plenty of printed/online evidence.
• Interbank money market collapse (September 12-15 with the October freeze to full stop). No more loans while the industry is over-leveraged. Fragmented but sufficient evidence (here's a roundup of September events in English [4])
• Govt injections (well evidenced and unfolding since September).
• Metallurgy crises (early October and unfolding). Fragmented but sufficient evidence, current event.
• Underlying industry crises in construction and auto industry. Little evidence other than the GAZ and KAMAZ stoppage.
• Consumer goods market: so far only one big business casualty (Grossmart, stores actually closed). Major rehash in farm-processing-retail relationships; inflation evident on the street but not confirmed officially. Current event. Here's a roundup in Russian from 2 weeks ago: [5]
• Social fallout: So far no reliable estimates on unemployment, even unofficial, but plenty of confirmed reports on layoffs and wage cuts.

This, imo, is the plan to replace current timeline. Comments? NVO (talk) 09:19, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

If you mean to reorganize the timeline into some more coherent prose, I would welcome this, but the facts from the timeline, especially concerning the government and central bank's response, should certainly stay. Colchicum (talk) 12:19, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Not just stay, but improved to a coherent presentation: right now these are unlinked bits. I'm more concerned about (relative) over-micexing. NVO (talk) 08:50, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

I started a revision here, although would not have time to complete it shortly. NVO (talk) 18:53, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Rosstat data - manufacturing collapse

Can anyone find an official/reliable source for these numbers ? NVO (talk) 15:13, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Needs Rewrite

I went into a bit of editing and I found that a lot needs to be done. I'm going to flag the article for a rewrite. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nogburt (talk • contribs) 21:47, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

• Way to go indeed. In the last two months the meltdown changed into a shithole, and the article has not changed a lot, it reads as if the dollar is still at 24. But then you should consider how to avoid the same deadlock: suppose that YOU rewrite it completely to reflect middle-of-January-2009 state of crap; who will update it one month later? one year later? Make it sustainable, that's the trick. NVO (talk) 20:10, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
  • The article really needs to be rewritten and updated. Also, the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs in the lead are biased. The 2nd (about trading being taken to London because of the suspension) is outdated. There have not been any suspensions for a long time now. Also, is this information really that important to be in the lead? To me it seems like just a minor detail. The 3rd paragraph is, of course, typical to all Russian politics -related articles. No matter what actions the Russian government undertakes, Western media will always speculate it's actually some kind of evil plot. The paragraphs forgets to mention this from the same source [6] (it should be added there for balance): The importance of the assets owned by top businessmen means the Kremlin will have to step in to prevent a meltdown and keep assets from falling into foreign hands, investors said. What do others think? Offliner (talk) 15:34, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
    • Indeed it's dated, but so far there hasn't been enough drive to update it, so once rewritten it might again stuck in a frozen snapshot. Seems like a dead end (or call it ferrous metallurgy :(()to me. NVO (talk) 15:59, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

This article is ridiculous

This article is ridiculous, why not doing an article about Mexican Financial Crisis 2008-2009 in which Mexican peso suffered against dollar from 10 pesos per dollar to almost 15 pesos per dollar, Russian Economy grew about 6% in 2008 and the economies of Western Europe and U.S.A registered recession, the situation in Russia is quite different to that of 1998. Given the conditions why not doing articles about Argentine Financial crisis 2008-2009, Brazilian Financial crisis 2008-2009 and the rest of the countries!, Argentina, Brazil and Mexico injected big quantities in order to avoid devaluation but it happened, another European countries like Hungary, Ukraine are waiting from huge millionaire loans from the FMI--Jaguarlaser (talk) 01:04, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

• As a Mexican, you are in an inherently better position - you can update Economy of Mexico or spin off a Mexican crisis... if you feel necessary. Any country with a double-digit drop in employment or manufacturing output has taken a big hit worth a separate article. The tricky point is keeping it up-to-date (here Russian crisis fails). NVO (talk) 03:39, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
• Argentina registered many falls in its Stock Exchange, once down to -17% in only one day. By the way it is obvius that the situation in Hungary and Ukraine is worst than Russia. I don´t think that it is necessary to write an article about Mexican Crisis because it was provoked by the World Financial Crisis--Jaguarlaser (talk) 16:29, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
• Rusofobic comments have no place in Wikipedia. Please, keep your hateful speech to yourself. --Ram2006 (talk) 05:23, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

I do not understand why an entire article is dedicated to the Russian financial crisis, when so many other countries are in far worst condition. ie; Ukraine, Latvia, Hungary, Ireland, Greece, Serbia, Lithuania to name a few. Why has Russia been singled out? I think the entire article should be scrapped as superfluous.

Because Russia is a big country and attracts more attention in our media, and there are presumably more wiki editors who know about Russia's economic situation and can contribute. It's true that much of Eastern Europe and countries like Iceland and Japan are in much worse positions, but that doesn't change the situation in Russia. Instead of deleting this article we should be updating and improving it, and we should create articles for those countries that you mentioned. LokiiT (talk) 03:51, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Scope of the article

Is this article about the whole economical crisis, or only about the financial aspects (stock market, budget deficit, bank system, etc.)? Offliner (talk) 15:17, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

The whole pic. Those 10 million unemployed aren't bankers. NVO (talk) 16:29, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

In that case, I think we are giving way too much space for the stock market and finance policy. Real economy is much more important. Maybe I'll rework the article a bit. Do you think it would be approarite if I simply removed some undue material and obsolete material? Offliner (talk) 21:57, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

The article should be renamed to 2008–2009 Russian economic crisis (or economic recession) with the financial troubles begin given much less weight. Russia's financial markets are hardly at all connected to the real economy, and it was really a minor part of the bigger picture. GDP, unemployment, trade, inflation, rate cuts, the ruble, social impact - all of these issues are more important than the stock market, but they're either not mentioned at all or shoved to the bottom of the article with no mention in the intro. LokiiT (talk) 06:22, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

The article is also littered with way too much "speculation" and "analyses", much of which is out-dated and makes no sense. Intro: "Many analysts believe Russia is going to take control of assets and increase the governments role in the economy -(update)- Russia plans to sell off thousands of state assets." ...uh okay? This is why we should have stuck to the facts and the well respected publications (ie. World Bank, OECD reports) from the beginning. It seems this article was created with politics and POV in mind, and now 80% of the text in this article is obsolete. LokiiT (talk) 07:24, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Two relevant stories in today's news

This article needs a serious update. Here are a couple relevant news items I came across today:

• Oct. 20 (Bloomberg) -- Russia emerged from recession last quarter, Finance Minister Alexei Kudrin said, after the world’s largest energy exporter benefited from a resurgence in commodity demand that helped lift industrial output. Gross domestic product grew 0.6 percent in the third quarter from the previous three months, the Economy Ministry said in a separate release, citing preliminary figures. The annual decline eased to 9.4 percent, according to the ministry. That compares with a reported 10.9 percent record contraction in the second quarter.[7]

• Russia wants to sell state energy and transport holdings to help plug its first budget deficit in a decade and to speed up the makeover of its aging infrastructure. The state has earmarked about 5,500 enterprises for divestment and will sell shares in companies that are already publicly traded, including OAO Rosneft, the country’s biggest oil producer, First Deputy Prime Minister Igor Shuvalov said on Sept. 22.[8] LokiiT (talk) 15:20, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Article is Superfluous

These are the comments who IP 99.224.169.254 posted on article page, I (Mariah-Yulia) move them to here:

• I really do not understand why Russia is being singled out. Eastern European and Baltic countries fared far worst then Russia, many of them having to go cup in hand to the IMF, yet with the exception of Latvia, I see no articles on them. - IP 99.224.169.254

Easy, create the yourself (see WP:1ST for tips how to)! By the way the article 2008–2009 Ukrainian financial crisis was created by me months ago. — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 21:58, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

I created the article on Latvia after someone made the same complaint (see above discussion), but I sort of abandoned that article because there are so few sources talking about Latvia's crisis. There's just one really good blog I follow, but blogs aren't good enough. The situation in wikipedia is just a reflection of our mainstream media coverage which also disproportionately singles Russia out and rarely mentions that its neighbors are faring much worse off.

This article is as good as useless itself though. It needs to be re-written from scratch. Wish I had the time. LokiiT (talk) 05:01, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

useless article

it was a global financial crisis not only in Russia, why does Russia needs it own article. Its Russophobic and bias. Do then for every country a 2007-2009 financial crisis article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 343zoz (talk • contribs) 22:19, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

i agree the title great recession? Russian economy regrew in 2010-2013. Where is great recession article for euro area?--Crossswords (talk) 19:57, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 (talk) 08:54, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

---

2008–2009 Russian financial crisis → Great Recession in Russia –

• Consistent naming convention. 86.40.198.66 (talk) 00:42, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
• Support I think this addresses the concern expressed in the section above. --BDD (talk) 16:49, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
• Support, to follow the renamed Great Recession. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:34, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
• Support per my comments above LokiiT (talk) 02:15, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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