Talk:Graeme Smith

Smith is not a bowler!

"He is also an occasional off spin bowler who appears to be able to take key wickets."

7 wickets in Test matches is hardly worth a mention. 203.3.197.249 04:45, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

He certainly rates himself - he bowled himself more than Nicky Boje in a Test in the WI recently [1], and bowled himself before Boje in another [2]. I'd agree to remove the second bit, though, since four of his wickets have been in drawn causes, two have been in lost causes, and the last was Khaled Mahmud. Sam Vimes 08:53, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

And look, now the second bit is gone. :D Sam Vimes 08:54, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Have to agree with Sam, his bowling is not really worth a mention because he tends to take a hiding almost every time he bowls. Nice performance graph - thanks to whoever put that there! BoltonD 12:40, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Certainly not a bowler at Test level (except in his own mind), but at First Class OD level he has been used to some effect, at least in the initial part of his career. The Cricinfo profile (http://content-rsa.cricinfo.com/southafrica/content/player/47270.html) shows 47 wickets at 38, but I think it was a lot better in his first couple of seasons... don't know if it helps contributes to this article at all though... 198.54.202.242 (talk) 21:34, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

dont undermine him!!

I disagree, the fact that he hae taken 7 test wickets adds to his calibre as a player! Even though he does go for runs, we cannot take away the fact that he has taken 7 wickets. Give Graeme the credit he deserves!

Some bias/lack of details...

I feel that this article is lacking a little in a full coverage of Smith's career. Perhaps it would be better to further outline his failings as well as his triumphs - a good example might be Ricky Ponting's entry where the last Ashes series was analysed. Obviously both are great players and their highlights should take precedence but their fallibilities are also historically important.

Unclear statement

I have removed the following statement from the article:

He was also accused by Michael Vaughan of calling him 'queer' and the fact that Smith acted as a witness during Vaughan's case with referee Clive Lloyd (Vaughan was fined his entire match-fee)." I am not sure what this is referring to - it accuses Smith of calling Vaughan a queer, should it also say ill-will was generated by Smith giving evidence against Vaughan in his hearing with the match referee for (insert offence here).

I've also messed around with the article a bit - I feel it is a pretty good article but there are still some passages where it is obviously written from the viewpoint of a fan. Furthermore, statements such as "Smith and the Australian players have a mutual respect for each other" are a little ambiguous, as I'm pretty sure that there would be quite a few players (and even more fans) on both sides of the Indian Ocean who have little love for Smith and Ponting respectively.

Anyway, thoughts etc? Crx2gen 13:32, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Hello. I also think the article is up to standard. I will submit for GA just to see how it goes. If you think that that is a mistake then by all means withdraw it. Thanks. 02blythed (talk) 11:13, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

'Smith has earned a reputation as a hard-edged cricketer and assertive leader, a combination which is often interpreted by his critics as arrogance.[citation needed]'

The above quote is unsourced. I have had a quick look for RS but cannot find one. If you someone does can they please add it. I will look further but if cannot find one will delete statement. 02blythed (talk) 12:08, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Failed "good article" nomination

This article failed good article nomination. This is how the article, as of April 15, 2008, compares against the six good article criteria:

1. Well written?: The article needs a thorough copy edit

2. Factually accurate?: It appears to be accurate but some claims certainly need backing up

3. Broad in coverage?: For such an accomplished and experienced cricketer, the article is still on the short side and doesn't included much of Smith's career

4. Neutral point of view?: The section entitled Career Highlights instantly worried me to any bias in the article

5. Article stability? Pass

6. Images?: Pass

The article is a long way from GA, in my opinion. There are problems with MOS, which I've to some extent tried to fix, thoroughness, the standard of writing, and more citations are needed. There's a lot of work to do.

When these issues are addressed, the article can be renominated. If you feel that this review is in error, feel free to take it have it reassessed. Thank you for your work so far.

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   Peanut4 (talk) 23:21, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

GA review

It's clear that a good amount of work has gone into the article, however, I feel I cannot pass it and list it as a GA until the following issues have been resolved (ie, corrected for explained):

• Why is the lead so small? What you've got so far is very good but you could try and expand it. When I write leads for articles I try and do the following:
  • First sentence introduction to subject.
  • The rest of the paragraph should be used to establish why the subject is notable, in Smith's case it would obviously be the fact he is the captain of the South African cricket team but you could port some of the statements from the career section(s) and the controversies sections you feel maybe used further establish why Smith is notable.
  • The second paragraph sould be an overview of the subject's career, ie a sentence on his early career, then a couple more for his domestic career and the rest to his international career.
  • The third paragraph should just have a brief mention of the controversies in his career and then just a brief statement of what he has done recently.

• The early career section seems too small to warrant a primary header, perhaps you could merge the "early" and "domestic" career sections into one? Not only that but couldn't you put all the career related sections under a primary (==) "Cricketing Career" header with the "early and domestic" section and "international" section, just a suggestion. ;-)

• "The previous record was 254 by Sir Donald Bradman." of <insert country here>
• "England national cricket team, India national cricket team and Sri Lankan national cricket team." - wouldn't it be easier to have England, India and Sri Lanka?
• "It beat the previous record of 413 which had been set in 1956" - any ideas as to who held the previous record?

• In the "Controversies" section, the name "Keven Pieterson" appears a number of times in successive sentences, try using different words to refer to win by such as: "the Brit", "Pieterson", or perhaps how old Pieterson was at the time (ie "...the x year old").
• "In May 2008 Smith was involved in the controversy with Saurav Ganguly when he took a disputed catch in the IPL tournament in India." - Why isn't Ganguly wikilinked? Also, where is the reference?

• Finally, once could use {{s-sports}} over the succession box to organise them. For instance, if Smith gets an award, you could use {{s-awards}}{{s-ach}} to distinguish that from his SA Captain boxes. Also, the article mentions he has broken a few records, perhaps you could introduce a few more boxes for these records and use the {{s-ach}} to organise them.

edited to replace s-awards with s-ach Bazj (talk) 17:20, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Hello. Thanks for doing the GA review. I have dealt with your queries.

In the lead I have copied and pasted from career section about his highest score whenm he toured England in 2003. I hope this is ok as I thought how i could do it better but I couldn't. If not what you wanted by all means change it if you have a better idea.

With combining sections. I didn't know what to call them and make it sound right. If i was honest I did not like the idea of combining the early/domestic and internatioanl sections together as for one it would be easier for the readers to get the section they wanted and also it would make the section to big and the way I did it i think looks better. sorry.

For don bradman record added fact he was australain

For kevin piterson took away kevin to leave his surname as suggested.

Removed statement about disputed catch as if everytime a cricketer not just graeme smith was involved in something like this there would be loads of such statements and if kept this ( which i did not add by the way) i woudl have to add every such instance which would be hard to get sources and also a waste of time as the readers would get minimal info from such statements.

finally about the succession boxes. I have decided to leave them as I do not know fully how to do it. Also if there are to many succession boxes it may cause the article to look a mess.

Thanks agaion for reviewing the article. I hope these changes mena it can now be a GA. 02blythed (talk) 13:04, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Not to be done to pass this review, just some suggestions for the future.

For the future, I wouldn't be looking at getting to an FA just yet because Smith's career is still ongoing, thereby making his article slightly unstable. Well, that's my personal preference anyway. Also, a background on the subject wouldn't go amiss either, this is a biography of Graeme Smith after all, not just an overview on his career. A few more free images wouldn't go amiss either although for a GA a picture of the subject himself is all that can be asked. ;-).

Anyway, sorry to be a pain but I'm putting this article on hold until my issues have been responded to - drop me a line when you've finished! ;-) --Phill ^{talk Edits} _{Review this GA review!} 09:45, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Cheers for the buzz. ;-) Anyway, I'll pass this article as a GA, however if you plan to get it up to FA then I strongly suggest that the lead is improve and you find some hardcopy refs (books, magazines, etc) - it's best waiting 'til he gets a biography because then the article can discuss his early and personal life (eg. like I've done on Alain Prost and Tom Pryce). Anyway, may I encourage you to review this GA review (see my signature) and also to review GA candidates as well because there is a horrible backlog in the sports section - Thanks. --Phill ^{talk Edits} _{Review this GA review!} 09:23, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

domestic career

why is smith's rajasthan royals stint,included in his international career paragraph? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shanbhag.rohan (talk • contribs) 04:43, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

GA Reassessment

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Graeme Smith/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

I feel the article fails to cover his entire career in depth. Looks to be just a bunch of stats that mainly mention his best performances.

• Nothing mentioned about his struggles with Hoggard in 2004 for example. Aaroncrick (talk) Review me! 06:24, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
• The infamous toe-to-toe sledging with Fleming, speaking out about sledging on debut against Aus aren't mentioned. Also, for 77 Tests, most of them as captain, it is rather short YellowMonkey (bananabucket) (help the Invincibles Featured topic drive) 03:49, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
• Not a lot said about Warne sledging in his first Test against Australia. They then took it publicly in 05/06. The controversy bit should be merged in my opinion, as it's easier for the reader to understand. Most appears to be results and stats based. Aaroncrick (talk) Review me! 06:20, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
• Not a fan of the centuries table down the bottom. Aaroncrick (talk) Review me! 06:21, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
• No info of anything in 2009. Aaroncrick (talk) Review me! 06:24, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

If nothing has been addressed by Friday, I will remove the list. Aaroncrick (talk) Review me! 06:24, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

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