Talk:Dumbo/Archive 1

Archive 1

Release dates

More info is need on the video release dates. I think we should put the exact month and day the video came out. For example June ??, 1981 for the original release4.245.173.126 (talk) 16:57, 22 May, 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Dumbo movie poster.jpeg

Image:Dumbo movie poster.jpeg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 03:26, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Stop!

Don't add phony anniversary editions to releases, anymore. I believe it doesn't matter if a film doesn't come out to home video just for an anniversary. TobytheTramEngine (talk) 16:48, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Point

I noticed the cast section but did Pinto Colvig really voice Dumbo? If not, can I remove it? TobytheTramEngine (talk) 15:51, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't think Colvig voiced Dumbo as Dumbo has no spoken dialoge, I think it's OK to remove it. 66.217.128.3 (talk) 22:35, 3 February 2008 (UTC) Acording to the main article on Pinto Colvig,he was born on September 11, 1892,which means he would be 49 in 1941,plus Dumbo had no dialoge,so I removed it.68.220.162.180 (talk) 21:14, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Stop!

Don't add phony anniversary editions to releases, anymore. I believe it doesn't matter if a film doesn't come out to home video just for an anniversary. TobytheTramEngine (talk) 16:48, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

References to use

Please add to the list references that can be used for the film article.

• Hooks, Ed (2005). "Dumbo". Acting in Animation: A Look at 12 Films. Heinemann Drama. ISBN 0325007055.

Reception

On the article, it says, "As a result, Dumbo lacks the lavish detail of the previous three Disney animated features (Fantasia, Pinocchio, and Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs): character designs are simpler, background paintings are less detailed, and a number of held cels (or frames) were used in the character animation." It is the last sentence I don't quite understand. "..., and a number of held cels (or frames) were used in the character animation."What number? A lower number?A higher number?Anyone know? 193.217.195.200 (talk) 13:48, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

You're ALL wrong! For one thing, Fantasia is NOT experimental, it's a normal movie just like Dumbo and Bambi. 67.167.58.37 (talk) 19:17, 5 August 2006

The whole article needs to more specifically call out sources for its claims, but some of the material is in particular need. Trivia and "Release: Reactions & criticisms" are such cases. Especially the section in "Reception" on the crows and the work song need to be sourced and carefully screened for POV, as these are topics on which the modern POV is highly charged, and yet were not even controversial at the time. We must take care to clarify what aspects of the film were criticized when, and by whom. Harmil 16:39, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I have added an external link to an interesting article about racial stereotypes in Dumbo and The Jungle Book. I hope this will help enhance the Reactions & criticisms section quality, as this is a much detailed and pretty neutral article. Fresh Mike 14:18, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Trivia qualm

The trivia section mentions the "pink elephant" scene as being the first instance of a surreaslist kind of scene, which is all well and good, but I was under the impression that this scene was written by Salvador Dalí, much like the dream sequence from Spellbound. Thaddius 02:40, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

• Much of the Trivia section needs to be integrated into the article. Some of it is alreay in the article and should be deleted. 86.17.163.37 18:02, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

• • On the overlong trivia list, you can help by just picking one item and either referencing it, integrating it into the body of the article, pushing back by putting a {{fact}} tag on it, or moving the item to the talk page so it will be preserved here before fading away completely. You know you can, you know you can! Buddhipriya 06:52, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Stop!

Don't add phony anniversary editions to releases, anymore. I believe it doesn't matter if a film doesn't come out to home video just for an anniversary. TobytheTramEngine (talk) 16:48, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Qustion

I noticed the cast section, and it says Pinto Colvig voiced Dumbo. Is that true? If not, can I remove it? TobytheTramEngine (talk) 15:51, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't think Colvig voiced Dumbo as Dumbo has no spoken dialoge, I think it's OK to remove it. 66.217.128.3 (talk) 22:35, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Acording to the main article on Pinto Colvig, he was born on September 11, 1892, which means he would be 49 in 1941, plus Dumbo had no dialoge, so I removed it. Also, acording to the article on Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, it says he voiced Sneezy and Grumpy. 68.220.162.180 (talk) 21:14, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Edit warring

Several IPs have been involved in an edit warring, please discuss the issue here rather then reverting rollback edits. Otherwise, the page will be locked--JForget 01:06, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Locking might be good. Both of this IP edits are coming from a well known sock puppet, User:Skymac207, who has been doing this across Disney articles for months. He's been blocked as user, but continues this stuff as an IP since they are so far only being temp blocked. AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 01:12, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Y Done It has been locked for one week. JForget 12:41, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Running time

This articles continually notes that Dumbo has a 64 minute running time.However, the DVD packaging lists a 61 minute approx running time, and on playing the DVD, I noted the film lasted 61 minutes 10 seconds. Why does this article claim the film lasts 64 minutes? Steve1138 (talk) 20:04, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Are you sure? I've seen the film but it ran 63 minutes. TobytheTramEngine (talk) 21:31, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

You probably saw a PAL version, because of the 61 minute running time. Gabrielkat (talk) 16:04, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

That explains it - it was a UK DVD. Which is the "correct" running time? If it was being projected on film, for example, what would the running time be? Steve1138 (talk) 20:47, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I think the correct time is 64 minutes.70.146.241.244 (talk) 16:28, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Verna Felton

{{editsemiprotected}} There's an inconsistency about which character Verna Felton voiced. In Production it's noted that she voiced 'the pompous matriarch of the elephants' and in the Cast and characters it's Mrs. Jumbo. 85.250.108.202 (talk) 06:19, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

'twas fixed. Master of Puppets - _{Call me MoP! :D} 00:37, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't appear to be fixed.

Blu-Ray Release

{{editsemiprotected}} According to this article, Dumbo will come to Blu-Ray in February 2010. 76.229.204.67 (talk) 22:25, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Doesn't seem to be an RS, might be wrong though. Gonna leave it for now, feel free to pick it up later. — neuro^(talk) 21:24, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

This issue keeps coming up again and again, and I have yet to see one reliable source that indicates this is true. The latest one (which, in the edit summary after I reverted it, I said didn't meet WP:EL when I should have said WP:RS--my bad) said that Disney canceled the BD releases of Fantasia and Fantasia/2000 in order to release Dumbo to BD. This doesn't make sense, as the Fantasia films are long overdue to come out of the vault (I have the Fantasia Anthology box-set from the previous release), while Dumbo was just released again in 2006. --McDoobAU93 (talk) 18:24, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Iws

{{editsemiprotected}} Can someone please change in external links fr:Dumbo (Disney) to fr:Dumbo (film, 1941) and hi:Dumbo to hi:बुद्धू? Thanks. 72.254.166.143 (talk) 16:17, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

 Done Thanks! BOVINEBOY2008 :) 16:40, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

I'd double check those links as that was Bambifan101 making the request, which usually means he's made bad copies all over other language Wikis again.-- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 16:23, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

The links look good. The French one was redirected by an established French editor and I don't read Hindi, but both articles are/were stubs. BOVINEBOY2008 :) 16:47, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Blu-Ray/DVD Release

{{editsemiprotected}}

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. -Optigan13 (talk) 23:59, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

I've been subject of constant warnings about citing reliable sources. As you noted my information comes from UltimateDisney.com which is a very trustwothy site if you want to know about Disney releases. They stated that the next Platinum Edition will be Dumbo as you cam see if you enter my link. I didn't say that the releases of Fantasia and Fantasia 2000 were cancelled but their release date will be changed as in the site appears as "TBA" (to be announced). I put all the links in the articles so you can check my information. And last but not least, Ultimatedisney always knows the information before Disney makes an official announcement so I'm sure their information is right because is Disney itself who delivers the information to them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Disneyfolly (talk • contribs) 03:15, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I've looked at the site, and it appears to be more of a blog, with source information provided occasionally to back up what it has. Yes, some blogs do have a habit of being right ... but they also miss things, and don't meet the standards for reliable sources. If we really want to get down to brass tacks, Disney, as of right now, has *no* DVD/BD releases scheduled for 2010, as they would be listed on their website as upcoming. You'll need to provide some proof that "Disney ... delivers the information to them"; why would Disney not issue an official press release instead?

Oh wait, they did for Up, which Ultimate Disney provided a link to in their August 15 entry. However, for a lot of these other entries, including those related to Dumbo, they say "we've learned" or "we've heard," which smacks of a fan-site to me.

I honestly believe you're working in good faith, but at this point any 2010 Disney DVD/BD release appears to be speculation right now.

--McDoobAU93 (talk) 03:39, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I disagree, UltimateDisney is not a blog. Is a site that had been recognized for its veracity, even Leonard Maltin recommends it. Disney does not release an official press-release for every DVD/Blu-ray release. A good example was the new release of Bedknobs and Broomsticks which we get informed with months of anticipation and it was true. Also in their August 17 entry in which they informed us about the new relase of Dumbo in Platinum treatment goes like this: "We've just gotten news from Disney that the next animated classic slated for Platinum Edition treatment after Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs is Dumbo, scheduled for release next February. Fantasia and Fantasia 2000 had previously been announced, while others anticipated an Alice in Wonderland re-release to tie in with Tim Burton's mixed-medium filming coming to theaters next spring. Dumbo was not one of the ten best-selling titles originally chosen for the Platinum collection (which is supposed to be branded "Diamond" starting with Snow White), nor was it one of the four bonus titles admitted in 2003." So as I understand they got news directly from WDHE, so I assume is true. And last, I don't think is a blog because it seems that Disney take them very seriously because they deliver them their DVDs and Blu-Rays with at least a week of anticipation for them to review them, again a good example of this is the new edition of Bedknobs and Broomsticks that was reviewed in September 4, (The movie was released in september 8).

--Disneyfolly (talk) 12:39, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Who provided the news—someone in the Disney marketing department, or an intern who happened to see some promotional material being developed? Is this information verifiable from other, independent, third-party sources? When it comes to encyclopedia articles, "assume" is a very dangerous word to use. I know a lot of blog writers in other fields who get advance information on upcoming projects, but that still doesn't necessarily elevate them to reliable status.

Honestly, I expect this issue to be cleared up in a matter of weeks, one way or the other. With the impending BD/DVD release of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, I'd wager that the pack-in materials or included trailers will promote the next batch of re-releases ... be it Dumbo or the Fantasia series, or both, or even neither.

--McDoobAU93 (talk) 15:16, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Here's a photo confirming an ad for a Dumbo blu-ray in the Snow White blu-ray: [1] Could we add it to references? 134.48.60.31 (talk) 19:51, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

"Zoe Pritchard"

In an edit two years ago (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dumbo&oldid=211118624), someone anonymous added the statement that "many historians such as Zoe Pritchard reject these claims" (i.e., claims that the movie is racist). Since then, people have expanded on why one might think that--but it doesn't seem to change the fact that Google doesn't know of any actual historian named Zoe Pritchard. From here, it looks like someone randomly editing her name into a Wikipedia article. I've removed it, and boy someone should try to find actual citations for the claims in the "racial stereotyping" section. Tahnan (talk) 12:58, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

suggestions for restructuring of the article

the character section should be restructured based on race of animal. more information on the characters should also be provided. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.208.75.209 (talk) 17:14, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Name needs correcting in Cast section

{{editsemiprotected}} In the cast section, Jumbo Jr. is erroneously listed under his stage name, "Dumbo". It looks like it was done to make it easier to identify him as the title role, but it is incorrect nonetheless. I don't feel confident in my ability to rewrite that line, maintaining the title role association, without making it sound awkward, so I'm asking for a more eloquent editor to take care of it when they have time. Also, under Mrs. Jumbo, the name "Jumbo Jr." is referred to as "Dumbo's original name". This should be corrected at the same time. "original name" implies that his name was changed from "Jumbo Jr." to "Dumbo" which of course isn't true. It's safe to assume that at the end of the film, Mrs. Jumbo hasn't started calling her son "Dumbo", an insult made up by one of the other elephants, a name that offended Mrs. Jumbo so much that she reacted with physical violence towards the other elephants. The ringmaster gave Jumbo Jr. the stage name "Dumbo" after Timothy Mouse whispered it in his ear while he slept. Timothy Mouse thought that was his name because he heard the other elephants (which does not include his mother) call him that as an insult. I'll check back in about a month and if nobody has taken care of it, then I'll login and do it, but be warned, I'm not very skilled at wording things. 98.166.111.32 (talk) 04:02, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Done. Yes, I see what you're saying. I've implemented a marginally eloquent solution; feel free to tweak as you see fit. Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 12:13, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Oliver Wallace did the score, not Lance Husher. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.159.114 (talk) 01:53, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Done, good catch. Two edit requests in one – woohoo! Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 12:13, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Sterling Holoway as Mr. Stork

Sterling Holoway should be the only actor listed for Mr. Stork. Jim Cummings wasn't even born when this movie was made. The article is about the movie made in the 40s not the character Mr. Stork —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.38.59.163 (talk) 20:59, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

 Fixed. Well spotted! Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 11:40, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Budget

The article says the budget is $813,000, but there are no references. In Gabler's book about Disney, the budget is said to be about $650,000. The question is, which one is correct. 84.210.60.115 (talk) 15:40, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Short answer: be bold and change it, providing full citation for your source. Long answer: check your talk page. --McDoobAU93 15:45, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Non-Diamond DVD Editions

Disney Wikia references that this film, together with Fantasia and Alice in Wonderland, will be part of a series called "Non-Diamond Editions". Wikipedia itself makes no reference to this. Any comments?? Georgia guy (talk) 20:26, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Do you have reliable source to back this up? --TravisBernard (talk) 23:02, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/Other_Disney_Non-Diamond_series Georgia guy (talk) 15:49, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

I don't think Wikia is a reliable source because it doesn't meet the Verifiability guidelines for references. Citing Wikia would be like citing a Wikipedia article with another Wikipedia article. Guidelines for reliable sources in Wikipedia can be found here. --TravisBernard (talk) 17:58, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

penis discovery/controversy

A penis discovery have been made in the 1941 movie Dumbo. And i think an controversy section is needed, there have been another discovery like this in the 1989 movie The Little Mermaid and that one is clearly included in an controversy section within the wiki article, but since there is no controversy section at the present for the dumbo article i think there should be one.--212.181.199.36 (talk) 16:19, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Do you a credible source for this? If not, we cannot include it. --TravisBernard (talk) 16:28, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

yes, since the discovery was made by myself in the pink elephants segment part of the movie when the snake turns in to a dancing man the dancing mans nose clearley looks like a big penis and since this not is the first time this has happend in a walt disney production i ask of you to trust me or alternatively there should be an alleged rumor section but to answer your question there is no public source for this except me--212.181.199.36 (talk) 16:57, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Just because you see a penis doesn't mean there actually is one, or that the artists intended to depict one. As there is no reputable commentary on this subject and that, by your own admission, this is your own original discovery, and since Wikipedia is not a source for rumors, the answer would still be no. --McDoobAU93 18:27, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

well you are right, but, considering the amazing fact that salvador dali have made a painting called The Great Masturbator and that salvador dali actually was on the payroll for walt disney and the fact that the two of them was working on a short film called destino which was deemed too sexy too air for the public and the penis discovery made in The Little Mermaid which in fact was produced by disney and that salvador was a surrealist and that roy disney have said the following (start of quote) Roy insisted that the collaboration between his uncle and Dali was not as improbable as it sounded: Disney films featuring a talking mouse and a pink elephant could barely be more surrealist (end of quote).Because of considering these previous mentioned facts this makes my penis discovery legitimate in my opinion since it was discovered in the pink elephant parade segment,anyway if you decide to make an section or not is up to you/wikipedia, i hope i have done an good contribution to this discussion and to the otherwise superb article.--212.181.199.36 (talk) 13:57, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

That's quite a discovery you've made, but I'm afraid that as McDoobAU93 alludes to above, Wikipedia's Policy on Original Research prohibits us from adding something like this to the article unless it's been discussed in a reliable source. Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 15:54, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Home Media

Hey everyone. I noticed a number of inconsistencies between the bulleted items and the prose text within the home video section. I was thinking abut switching this section to a more traditional home media section, and expanding some of the release information for the more current releases. While I realize that Dumbo has been released a number of different times (most of which are difficult to source), other Disney classics have used a more traditional format. For example, see Bambi. Thoughts? --TravisBernard (talk) 23:45, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Here's a draft that I am working on for the home media section. My biggest issue is finding reliable sources to back up the information. The upcoming 70th Anniversary release is well cited, so I think we're good there, but the big issue is finding sources for the older releases. I think we should also maybe remove the information about the release in Mexico last year. This is an English version of Wikipedia, and that release is in Spanish. Any and all feedback is welcome. Thanks. --TravisBernard (talk) 20:27, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

I updated the previously mentioned draft with a few sources. I'm still looking for sources for the earlier releases, so if anyone finds good sources, please let me know. In the mean time, feedback on the draft would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. --TravisBernard (talk) 19:22, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

I implemented these changes to the "home media" section. One area I was a little hesitant about was including information about the film being available for download. This is a relatively new phenomenon, so I'm not sure if it is notable. I included it; however, I am open to discussing whether or not it should be included. As always, feedback is welcome. Thanks. --TravisBernard (talk) 19:50, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

70th Anniversary Edition is already out

The 70th Annviersary edition came out on Blu-ray and DVD in Australia over a year ago, though the article says nothing about this. I have copies of both, it was released with a major promotional push. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.245.88.155 (talk) 23:45, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

If you can find a reliable source for the Australian release information, then it can be added in the section with the US release of the 70th anniversary edition. Let me know if you have questions. Thanks. --TravisBernard (talk) 12:50, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Misspell

Under the section titled Animation, the name "Disney" is misspelled as "Dinsey". Please correct this.

208.95.51.137 (talk) 16:53, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Fixed it.--Jpcase (talk) 17:09, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Sentence-restructuring needed for redundancy

Under the "Legacy" section, sub-section "Allegations of Racial Stereotyping", the fourth sentence reads: "Despite suggestions of racism by critics such as Richard Schickel who have criticized the portrayal as racist,[32] others reject these claims."

This section is redundant and could perhaps be better written as:

"Despite suggestions by critics such as Richard Schickel that the stereotyped portrayal is racist,[32] others reject these claims." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Synaptic Elucidation (talk • contribs) 10:24, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 15 August 2012

Please edit Media and merchandise/Theme parks to include the new Casey Jr. Splash 'N' Soak Station at the Magic Kingdom. 86.160.174.12 (talk) 16:37, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.— Deon^talk 08:40, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Netflix buying Disney movies

Does this mean that they won't be owned by Disney any more?? (I'm putting it on this talk page because this is one of the movies I heard this about.) Georgia guy (talk) 20:07, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Correction & clarification needed

The mention of the screenplay being based on a "prototype of a novelty toy" - begs for clarification and a bit of expansion. Btw, the source cited does not mention anything about it being a "prototype". This needs to be corrected: either remove the term or specifically cite it. From the source cited:

She was still in Syracuse when she wrote her one great story, illustrated by Harold Pearl and published in 1939 by Roll-a-Book. This enterprising company produced box and scroll versions of a story, whereby the main text and illustrations could be wound through a small box, each tiny page appearing behind an aperture in the front rather as if watching a film.^[2]

—Nicholas Tucker, Monday 12 April 1999, "Obituary: Helen Aberson Mayer", The Independent, UK

~Thanks for your attention on this matter, ~E:Last modified:74.60.29.141 (talk) 06:16, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 10 December 2012

Begin request

1. Please remove or cite the word: prototype
2. Please clarify: ... based upon the storyline [...] for the prototype of a novelty toy...
3. Please change: ...Screen Cartoonists Guild labour union' -to- ...labor... (See: Trade union, Disney animators' strike and National Labor Relations Board)
4. For consistency and ease of navigation, please consider providing more obvious links to related articles (Although linked from text):

• For further information see Disney animators' strike
• [See also] Pink Elephants on Parade

End request

~Thanks, ~E:Modified:74.60.29.141 (talk) 22:23, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

The source that talks about the Dumbo story as being the first to be produced as a roll-a-book is this one, so the word "prototype" looks appropriate to me. I have made some other small changes. I am unclear as to why you want to remove the name of the union from the article. Your other edits do not meet our manual of style guidelines. -- Dianna (talk) 01:17, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

My apology for not making the "Labour" / "Labor" distinction clear. The ellipses were intended to imply that the remainder of the name be included, but labour be changed to labor, since that is the spelling recognized by the National Labor Relations Board, et al. - for unions in the U. S. - labour for Canadian unions, etc. ~Anyway, thank you for your attention on this matter, sorry for being nit-picky ;) ~E74.60.29.141 (talk) 01:41, 13 December 2012 (UTC)[modified]

Edit request on 3 March 2013

Because Time Magazine is a weekly, not a monthly publication, the third line under Box Office should read: "It was intended for Dumbo to be on the cover of the December 15, 1941 issue of Time, but the idea was dropped when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, resulting in the United States entering World War II and reducing the box office draw of the film."

Here is the cover in question:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/0,9263,7601411215,00.html

Tjtsixty3 (talk) 08:50, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Done, in a sense. While your statement that TIME is a weekly publication is correct, your edit for the planned issue of the cover story was not backed up by a reliable source and appears to be more along the lines of original analysis. That said, I did find a reliable source in the Walt Disney Family Museum, an independent repository of Disney memorabilia in San Francisco. The article has been edited to show that the Dumbo cover was actually intended for a different issue altogether, albeit still in December 1941. --McDoobAU93 16:17, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 January 2014

Please change "Baby Mine" to red-linked "[[Baby Mine (song)|Baby Mine]]". —Per WP:REDYES this song qualifies as a "Good red link" (being notable enough for its own article, and to "encourage new contributors in useful directions"). There are numerous potential articles linking to it, including award nominations and popular covers from notable artists. 71.20.250.51 (talk) 01:52, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Done Request looks reasonable to me. Kap 7 (talk) 05:16, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 May 2015

Ebrehman (talk) 00:22, 13 May 2015 (UTC) Proposed edits to the Dumbo page under the heading

"Disability Representation in Dumbo"

There are multiple instances of disability discourse and representation within Dumbo. For example, early on in the film after the stork delivers Dumbo one of the other circus elephants pulls Dumbo’s ear to show the other circus workers that Dumbo is different from them. In this same scene, another elephant gestures at Dumbo and says “Just look at those E-A-R-S,” further emphasizing Dumbo’s difference.[1] Indeed, circus animals and circus goers alike consider Dumbo a sideshow freak. After Dumbo’s mother, Mrs. Jumbo, attacks a circus-going boy who picked on her baby, another elephant says, “I don’t blame [Mrs. Jumbo] for anything...It’s all the fault of that little F-R-E-A-K.”[2] Mrs. Jumbo’s attack leads to her separation from Dumbo, and she is placed in isolation. Dumbo’s subsequent separation from his mother evokes audience sympathy for him and the ways his peers have ostracized him. The tragedy of this situation is neatly summed up by Timothy Mouse, the character who appoints himself as Dumbo’s mentor and protector, when he says: “Why, I ask ya why...just because he’s got those big ears, they call him a freak, the laughing stock of the circus. Then when his mother tried to protect him they throw her into the clink and on top of that they made him a clown...socially he’s washed up.”[3]

A circus elephant, left, laughs at Dumbo and his large ears. At right, Dumbo’s angered mother. Photo source: http://mom.me/latina-mom/17465-8-things-moms-multiracial-kids-tired-of-hearing/

Timothy Mouse’s sympathy in itself poses a problem as it reinforces notions of individuals living with disabilities as necessarily dependent on others, posing a burden to society, and requiring the presence of a keeper, an altruistic soul who must protect them. Critics further claim that Timothy Mouse as well as the crows Dumbo befriends represent minority characters, and arguably African Americans.[4][5] This portrayal of the crows as representing African Americans is controversial and not universally accepted by all scholars. Furthermore, it is only these minority characters that reach out to Dumbo and help him learn to fly, which ultimately facilitates his success as a circus performer in the film’s conclusion. Through this lens, critics argue the film has anti-prejudice themes, in that oppressed groups, such as African Americans, are the benevolent aids in Dumbo’s success journey.[6] Indeed, Dumbo finds a sense of community with the other minorities in the film all of whom experienced rejection from the rest of the circus community. Thus, this representation implies Dumbo’s status as a minority in the film by virtue of his disability.

Dumbo is only truly accepted into the circus when he overcomes his disability and learns to use his ears to fly, which earns the elephant his own successful sideshow act. Dumbo must act as more than disabled: a “supercrip”. “Supercrips are people who conform… by overcoming disability and becoming more ‘normal’, in a heroic way”.[5] Dumbo’s worth then is measured by his ability to fit in and provide services to the able-bodied characters, a troubling portrayal of disability. Dumbo is still seen as a “freak” but his difference no longer instills fear and mean-spirited actions by others; thus, he is accepted into society yet remains abnormal, an outsider.

1. Sharpsteen, B. (Director). (1941). Dumbo[Motion picture]. United States: Walt Disney Productions. 2. Sharpsteen, B. (Director). (1941). Dumbo[Motion picture]. United States: Walt Disney Productions. 3. Sharpsteen, B. (Director). (1941). Dumbo[Motion picture]. United States: Walt Disney Productions. 4. Pinsky, M. I. (2004).The Gospel According to Disney: Faith,Trust, and Pixie Dust. Louisville: Westminster John Knox Press. 5. Kirkpatrick, Stephanie R. The Disney-fication of Disability: The Perpetuation of Hollywood Stereotypes of Disability in Disney's Animated Films. Akron, OH: University of Akron: Unpublished MA thesis. , August 2009. 6. Watts, S.(1997) The Magic Kingdom: Walt Disney and the American Way. Columbia, MO: University of Missouri Press.

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Amortias (T)(C) 19:38, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

Edit request on 2 August 2015

The theme park section (9.3) should be updated to include the Storybook Circus area of Magic Kingdom at Walt Disney World that opened in 2012. There's a Casey Jr. Splash and Soak Station, and the Dumbo ride has been expanded into two separate rides along with an interactive circus tent waiting area that's themed to the movie. FrecklesNYC (talk) 20:41, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 26 August 2015

A Dumbo video game was made for the Atari 2600 back in 1983:

https://atariage.com/software_page.php?SystemID=2600&SoftwareLabelID=842

http://www.atariprotos.com/2600/software/dumbo/dumbo.htm

Even a prototype box for the game was made:

http://www.atariprotos.com/2600/software/dumbo/dumbobox.jpg

But for still unknown reasons the game was not released back then. Nowadays it can be played in Atari 2600 emulators.

As far as I can tell, this seems to be the first video game featuring Dumbo. I would like to enter this information in the Dumbo article as it doesn't seem to have been noticed. Abar Nuhas (talk) 05:46, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Not done for now: I think this could be added, but we would possibly need some additional and more reliable sourcing. Still, I think the AtariAge site could be considered reliable on its own for this, so we may be good. Also, could you please provide how you would want to edit the article to add this information? You can post it here and other editors will be able to help. Thanks! --McDoobAU93 17:44, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Atari Age is a reliable source, as is the other site, and Atari Mania has also posted the game, and even a picture of one of the prototype cartridges:

http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-2600-vcs-dumbo-s-flying-circus_11859.html

The prototype box also exists and the ROM is widely available on the Internet and can be played with Atari 2600 emulators. Furthermore, "Dumbo's Flying Circus" was actually even advertised as "Coming Soon" in some Atari 2600 game catalogs from that year:

https://atariage.com/catalog_page.php?CatalogID=38&currentPage=4

There is no doubt that Atari developed this game and it was close to being ready for production in 1983. What is still unclear is why was the game not actually released back then when Atari was advertising it would be. Perhaps the programmer will come forth one day and give his insights about the history of this game.

I would propose the following entry in the "Video Game" section of the article:

"A game entitled Dumbo's Flying Circus was developed for the Atari 2600 in 1983[1][2][3]. However, for reasons that are still not clear, the game was not released. Nowadays the ROM has been made publicly available and it can be played on Atari 2600 emulators. So far, this appears to be the earliest known video game featuring Dumbo." --Abar Nuhas (talk) 08:41, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 October 2015

90.209.5.27 (talk) 07:19, 19 October 2015 (UTC) | image =Dumbo UK VHS Cover.jpg

• Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format.
• Also that file does not exist on Wikipedia so I am not quite sure what you want us to do with that. --Stabila711 (talk) 08:07, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 July 2016

Please add to the 'See also' section, the following:

• Seeing pink elephants

Alternatively, an editor could integrate the link into the article.

2606:A000:4C0C:E200:CC99:600D:3E4:4B4C (talk) 22:15, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

 Done  Wikipedian Sign Language Paine  17:10, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 29 Aug 2016

In the "Controversy" section, replace the existing text with the entirety of the text below the list of references. The second subsection (Disabilities) is to follow, hopefully later today. I would ask that you please clean up my references -- my strength is in research, compilation, and summary, not in code. The note is taken verbatim from the blackface article. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 17:47, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

List of references -

• [ref 1] <http://entertainment.time.com/2009/12/09/top-10-disney-controversies/slide/dumbo/>
• [ref 2] Schickel, Richard (1968). "The Disney Version". New York: Simon and Schuster.
• [ref 3] http://tuftsjournal.tufts.edu/2008/10/features/06/
• [ref 4] Grant, John (1987). "Encyclopedia of Walt Disney's Animated Characters." New York: Harper & Row: 175.
• [ref 5] http://www.ferris.edu/news/jimcrow/links/reversal.htm
• [ref 6] http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/coon
• [ref 7] https://pages.stolaf.edu/americanmusic/2015/04/27/walt-minstry-dumbos-jim-crow/
• [ref 8] http://read.dukeupress.edu/content/birth-of-an-industry.body.pdf
• [ref 9] https://books.google.ca/books?id=HnBnDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA155&lpg=PA155&dq=Dumbo,+crow,+%22minstrel%22&source=bl&ots=FRPoii808J&sig=CA53KpoTYTn55J_GhlMfZOe1390&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwie7MqLiufOAhUC1hQKHSXvDokQ6AEIVjAN#v=onepage&q=Dumbo%2C%20crow%2C%20%22minstrel%22&f=false
• [ref 10] http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5245089
• [ref 11] Jordan, Larry (1983). "Social Construction as Tradition: A Review and Reconceptualization of the Dozens", Review of Research in Education, Vol. 10, pp. 79–101.
• [ref 12] http://www.allmusic.com/album/complete-recorded-works-1929-1938-mw0000126327
• [ref 13] H. Rap Brown (1969). "Die Nigger Die!" New York: Dial Press.

• [note 1] For the "darky"/"coon" distinction see, for example, note 34 on p. 167 of Edward Marx and Laura E. Franey's annotated edition of Yone Noguchi, '"The American Diary of a Japanese Girl", Temple University Press, 2007, ISBN 1-59213-555-2. See also Lewis A. Erenberg (1984), "Steppin' Out: New York Nightlife and the Transformation of American Culture, 1890–1930", University of Chicago Press, p. 73, ISBN 0-226-21515-6. For more on the "darky" stereotype, see J. Ronald Green (2000), "Straight Lick: The Cinema of Oscar Micheaux", Indiana University Press, pp. 134, 206, ISBN 0-253-33753-4; p. 151 of the same work also alludes to the specific "coon" archetype.

Controversy

Racist stereotypes vs black culture

The crow characters in Dumbo are commonly seen as portraying African-American stereotypes, [ref 1] [ref 2] [ref 3]. All of the crows except the lead crow were voiced by African-American actors, who were all members of the popular all-black Hall Johnson Choir. The lead crow was played by Cliff Edwards.

The crow chorus speaks in a black dialect, which also incorporates blackface minstrel stylings, mocking banter, and jazzy music with scat elements. When one of the crows addresses Timothy as "Brother Rat," Timothy retorts with "I ain't your brother." Additionally, the crows were each assigned informal names during the movie's production: Glasses Crow, Preacher Crow, Fat Crow, Straw Hat Crow, and the leader Dandy Crow, who was also known as Jim Crow.

The "Encyclopedia of Walt Disney's Animated Characters" argues that white men in Dumbo are negatively stereotyped to a greater extent than blacks.[ref 4] Leonard Maltin states that the black crows are black characters rather than black stereotypes,[ref 5] while Michael Willmington claims that the crows act as father figures to Dumbo.[ref 5]

Alex Wainer concludes that the crows are caricatures of lower class blacks, and thus marginalized from mainstream society. However, it is precisely this marginalization which allows them to learn to empathize with Dumbo and help him to turn a detriment into a superlative asset.[ref 5]

Many commenters additionally reject the claim of African-American stereotyping on the basis that the crows do not match the core black stereotypes of coon, mulatto, mammy, or buck.[ref 6] In fact, they are the quickest-witted characters in the movie, and have complete personal freedom.[ref 5]

However, the freedom and boredom of poverty, as well as laziness, superstition, and musicality, is typical of blackface minstrelsy,[ref 7][ref 8] which is generally accepted to have proliferated the African-American stereotypes of the "happy-go-lucky darky on the plantation" or the "dandified coon".[note 1] The term Jim Crow itself originally derives from a minstrel song.[ref 7] The Oxford Guide to Children's Literature specifically identifies Cliff Edward's imitation in Dumbo of the then-popular black minstrel Flournoy Miller, and also identifies similarities to the Mills Brothers and to then-popular blackface minstrels Moran and Mack, who were known as the Two Crows.[ref 9] In the decade prior to Dumbo's release, the movie character of Stepin Fetchit, "The Laziest Man In The World",[ref 10] epitomized this view of African-Americans as lazy, superstitious, and happy-go-lucky.[ref 6]

Although wisecracks were also part of the minstrel show, the quick-wittedness and wordplay of the crows is in contrast to the low intelligence stereotype of most minstrelsy. The wordplay in Dumbo is similar to the Dozens,[ref 9] a traditionally black contest of insulting banter using swift and skillful speech. This game is first mentioned in academic study by John Dollard in 1939,[ref 11] two years before Dumbo was released; while songs referencing the game existed as early as 1920.[ref 12] In his memoirs Die Nigger Die! (1969), H. Rap Brown writes that the children he grew up with employed the Dozens to kill time and stave off boredom, in the way that whites might play Scrabble.[ref 13]

Disability stereotypes

Semi-protected edit request on 30 August 2016

[Paste of the entire article snipped. —User:Trivialist]

2602:306:33C5:1860:BD94:DBA4:7CCC:DF3C (talk) 21:19, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Trivialist (talk) 22:56, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Controversy text - previous edit request

I won't be able to get back to this for at least a week. However, the first section on the crows and African-American stereotyping is complete, in its above form (with the previous note re links). Please make the substitution, or let me know why not. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 14:25, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

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film genre

IMDB says this is drama so can someone add that? --97.113.114.127 (talk) 00:07, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 30 June 2018

In section Controversy, please place {{citation needed|date=June 2018}} following ..."Jim Crow" for script purposes.

AFI states otherwise: "Dumbo (1941)". AFI | Catalog. American Film Institute. 107.15.157.44 (talk) 09:11, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

 Done ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 18:05, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 September 2018

Near the beginning of Wikipedia's "Dumbo" article, it is stated: ("Dumbo" the movie) "is based upon the storyline written by Helen Aberson and illustrated by Harold Pearl". This should be changed to: "is based upon the storyline written by Helen Aberson and Harold Pearl", since there is a correction stated at the bottom of the New York Times obituary for Helen Aberson on April 13, 1999 that reads: "Correction: April 13, 1999(:) An obituary on Saturday about Helen Aberson Mayer, a co-author of Dumbo, the Flying Elephant, misstated the role of Harold Pearl in creating the book. Mr. Pearl, a journalist who died in 1975, was the co-author, not the illustrator." Link to the New York Times archives obituary article here:

https://www.nytimes.com/1999/04/10/arts/helen-a-mayer-dumbo-s-creator-dies-at-91.html

If anyone can be credited for illustrations in the original "Roll-A-Book" version of "Dumbo", it would be Helen Durney, as stated in an article by animation historian and author Michael Barrier. Again, in the Wikipedia article, I suggest changing: "and illustrated by Harold Pearl for the prototype of a novelty toy ("Roll-a-Book")" to: "and illustrated by Helen Durney for the prototype of a novelty toy ("Roll-a-Book")". Link to the source of information for this edit here:

http://www.michaelbarrier.com/Essays/DumboRollABook/DumboRollABook.html

(F.Y.I.: I believe Michael Barrier is a trustworthy source as he and his colleagues have been researching animation history (including interviews with artists from major animation studios) since the 1960s. Mr. Barrier also wrote a book, published in 1999, entitled: "Hollywood cartoons : American animation in its golden age" by Oxford University Press.)

(Has anyone else brought this up yet? Just thought I'd give the community the heads up on this.) Thank you.

108.69.216.196 (talk) 13:12, 23 September 2018 (UTC)Mike P.

108.69.217.116 (talk) 17:02, 19 September 2018 (UTC)108.69.217.116 (talk) 16:15, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

 Done Thank you Mike. Fish+Karate 12:07, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

More direct evidence that Helen Durney illustrated original "Roll-A-Book" version of Dumbo story (including scans of her actual sketches), and additional info on Ms. Durney's career

For those interested, (and in case this may be useful to somehow add to the article), to add veracity, more direct evidence, and support to the claim that Helen Durney illustrated the original "Roll-A-Book" version of Dumbo, here is a link to the catalog entry in Syracuse University Library's holdings of Ms. Durney's work (mentioning Dumbo along with other information about Ms. Durney's career):

https://library.syr.edu/digital/guides/d/durney_hr.htm

AND, NOTE here is a link to Syracuse University Library's "Special Collections Online" WITH ACTUAL WATERMARKED SCANS OF HELEN DURNEY'S PRELIMINARY SKETCHES FOR THE DUMBO "ROLL-A-BOOK" THAT CAN BE VIEWED ONLINE! (SOMEONE MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER ADDING THIS (LINK) TO THE DUMBO ARTICLE!):

http://scrconline.syr.edu/xtf/search?brand=scrc&repository=scrc&keyword=Helen+Durney

(BTW, thanks to the editor "Fish and Karate" who granted my request and made the edit to the Dumbo article for me on September 27, 2018).

108.69.216.34 (talk) 17:50, 27 September 2018 (UTC)Mike P.

Really good stuff, thanks again Mike. I have added these to the article also, the first link as an additional reference in the body of the article to back up the fact that Durney did the original illustrations, and the second in the External Links section. It would be cool to add one of the original sketches of Dumbo to the article, but they're all watermarked anyway and it says Images supplied by the Special Collections Research Center, Syracuse University Libraries, may be used for scholarly, research, or educational purposes of a non-commercial nature. Permission to use images in any type of publication must be obtained in advance and in writing from the Special Collections Research Center by emailing scrc@syr.edu or going to http://scrc.syr.edu. Perhaps someone would like to contact them to ask for them to release one unwatermarked image with permission for it to be used on Wikipedia. Wikipedia:Example_requests_for_permission gives good advice on how to do this. Fish+Karate 09:46, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

You're welcome and thank you for your reply, Fish and Karate. And a good suggestion/advice to pursue the use of an image of one of Helen's sketches in the article. I'm not sure if or when I'd have time to try this myself; perhaps if no one else does, I might try in a few weeks. (Unfortunately Michael Barrier stated in his essay on the "Mysterious Dumbo Roll-A-Book" that he was unable to obtain permission from Syracuse U. to include any of Helen's sketches in with his essay. Mr. Barrier seemed to indicate the University requires payment for any use of the sketch images.)

But looking at the bigger picture, I just thought it would be helpful to make these corrections and additions to the article since it is possible, with the new Tim Burton version of "Dumbo" slated for release in about 6 months from the time of this comment (March, 2019), this article is likely to receive a little more traffic in the next several months. I think we're already on a "Roll" here; Thank you! 108.69.219.209 (talk) 19:46, 28 September 2018 (UTC)Mike P.

When I See an Elephant Fly

Hi all, there’s an error of omission in the “controversy” section asserting that all the actors who played the “other” crows were black members of the Hall Johnson Choir. Cliff Edwards, who voiced Jim Crow, was white, a fact that deserves to be mentioned explicitly especially given the suspicious weight given in that section to “rebuttals” of claims of racism. Asafeharbor (talk) 16:01, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 6 January 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: clear consensus not to move the page to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 08:00, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

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Dumbo → Dumbo (1941 film) – Since there's an upcoming Disney film called Dumbo, I think "1941 film" should be added to this article's title to differentiate it. EclecticEnnui (talk) 21:30, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

• Are you planning on moving Dumbo (disambiguation) here or making the 2019 film primary? It should be a multi-move. Crouch, Swale (talk) 22:04, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose. The original is a very significant film and is nearly 78 years old, while the remake has every chance to be a flash in the pan. Still the primary topic unless the new film is earthshattering or whatever. Nohomersryan (talk) 22:19, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose per Nohomersryan עם ישראל חי (talk) 16:39, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose the primary topic is the original film. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 17:46, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose per User:Nohomersryan. The newer film was made because of the legendary status of the 1941 film, and unless this remake begins to approach the original in popular lore and critical acclaim, it is not a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, and the move would promote WP:RECENTISM. 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 18:17, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose. The original movie is the primary topic. Rreagan007 (talk) 21:49, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose, common name and per above (this good faith nom 'just won't fly'). Randy Kryn (talk) 01:08, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Semi-protected edit request on 9 July 2019

In the infobox, please change {{based on|''Dumbo'' -to- {{based on|''Dumbo, the Flying Elephant''
Sources:

• Pace, Eric (10 April 1999). "Helen A. Mayer, Dumbo's Creator, Dies at 91". The New York Times.

• Barrier, Michael. "The Mysterious Dumbo Roll-A-Book". www.michaelbarrier.com. 107.15.157.44 (talk) 14:01, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

 Done Highway 89 (talk) 17:32, 9 July 2019 (UTC)