Talk:Climax Blues Band

Untitled

Why is this part of the Chicago wikiproject? It was a part of the (British) band's name, for a period of time. Bunnygod888 01:31, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

I do not know how it ever got to be so. I have therefore, somewhat belatedly, removed the tag.

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 21:15, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

The band is identified as "Chicago blues ensemble" and WP:CHICAGO has indicated an interest in these articles. I've doubled checked with the project co-ordinator, though. –xeno^talk 21:29, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Climax Blues Band.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 19:46, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Peter Haycock - Former member of UK Rock Group, Climax Blues Band

Two things that I am vaguely remembering about Peter Haycock and the group, Climax Blues Band. Sometime in the early 70's, I am guessing, a group formed that used the name of Climax Blues Band and capitalized on it until the group succefully sued for infringements. They did not rip off the original band's music, just the name.

Another thing I also remember is that sometime after Peter Haycock left the group Climax Blues Band, he worked either solo or formed with another group that produced strictly instrumental rock...no vocals. Their philosophy was that it was easier to produce instrumental work than it was to have to pen lyrics to the tunes.

I heard the music and read the cover of the cassette tape or album cover in the mid-eighties and recognized a certain style that I had enjoyed from the Climax Blues Band. Also, I do not believe that it was his work with the Electric Light Orchestra, as I am very familiar with their sound and name. And while I cannot remember the name of Peter's group at the time, I believe that I would remember if it was ELO. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Daddymartel (talk • contribs) 00:59, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

His post Climax Blues Band solo album was Guitar & Son (circa 1985) - which was purely instrumental. After that he formed the short-lived outfit, H Factor. Does this help ?

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 20:36, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Breakthrough?

How is 'The Stamp Album', Peaking at #69 and on the chart for 11 weeks, their "breakthrough", when the previous (and unmentioned) 'Sense of Direction' made it to #37 and was on the chart for 29 weeks? Gimelgort (talk) 18:22, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Pete Haycock's Climax Blues Band

The members of Pete Haycock's Climax Blues Band have recently been removed from this page on account of a lack of reliable sources to justify their inclusion. However the last paragraph in the "History" section reads:

"In 2013, founding member Haycock launched another version of the "Climax Blues Band", with a lineup consisting of Haycock (vocals, guitar) along with Charley Charlesworth (bass), Mel Collins (saxophone), Robin George (vocals, guitar), Charlie Morgan (drums), and Jacquie Williams (vocals). However, Haycock died October 30, 2013, effectively putting an end to the lineup."

...if the sources provided are not viable evidence for the existence of Pete Haycock's own lineup of the band, this paragraph shouldn't even exist. Either the band existed and is worthy of inclusion, as the prose indicates, or it is not, as the infobox and "Members" section currently suggests. 86.169.169.43 (talk) 13:53, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Facebook is not a reliable source because it is self-published, therefore I've removed it.--Launchballer 14:29, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Well that logic in itself is flawed, yes it's "self-published", but it was self-published by representatives of Pete Haycock himself. Reference #10 is taken from the band's official website, and is therefore also self-published, but to remove it for that reason would be ludicrous. An official statement is what it is, regardless of medium.

That said, this is Wikipedia. I have seen consensus' that are far more bemusing than this. 31.52.196.136 (talk) 21:02, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

References

John Cuffley

It might be interesting to mention in the article that John Cuffley left the original Climax Blue Band to work as a designer for Portmeirion Pottery as his work is beginning to attract collectors.truthordare (talk) 18:12, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

I do not dispute that it could be possible, but I don't understand how Chicago Transit Authority - later known as simply Chicago - could have placed any pressure on the CBB to shorten their name. Does anyone have a credible source to reference for this statement?THX1136 (talk) 14:19, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

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Page Being Edited by Request of Only Surviving Active Member - Derek Holt (August 2018)

Hello All,

I am attempting to edit the Climax Blues Band Wikipedia Page by request of the Band's only active surviving and active member Derek Holt. There is a tribute band in the U.K with no original members that feel they have a claim to the brand as well as the wikipedia page. The only person with active claim to the ownership of the band, Derek Holt, is touring the United Stated with an ensemble of talented musicians. I have been in a bit of an editing war with the tribute band however I do not wish to dismiss them, simply set the record straight. These are the facts.

"The Climax Blues Band has been re-formed by the only active founding member; Derek Holt, along with an ensemble of seasoned and skilled bandmates, to perform in a historic 50th anniversary tour (2018). Currently touring with Derek Holt - Vocals, Bass, Guitar and Keyboards: Tony Coleman – Drums and Vocals; played drums with B.B. King, Etta James, and Buddy Guy. Lynn Sorensen – Bass, Guitar and Vocals; played bass for Bad Company and Paul Rodgers. Mike Marinig – Sax, Harmonica, Keyboards and Vocals; played sax for the CD Woodbury Band. And Rick Knotts – Guitar, Slide and Vocals; a founding member of the band Rail.

There is also a Climax Blues Tribute Band in the UK is carrying on the legacy of Climax Blues Band albeit with no founding members." (talk) 00:10, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

http://www.climaxbluesband.us https://www.westsideseattle.com/west-seattle-herald/2018/06/09/climax-blues-band-warms-white-center

Note: Derek Holt's Climax Blues Band is re-recording the entire CBB catalogue of music, and retains the rights to the brand, logo, and music. Thestormbrewer (talk) 00:24, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

So, I applaud you trying to edit the article and taking the steps forward to do so; I believe you are attempting to operate in good faith (despite the weird edit to my talk page), which is great because I normally end up dealing with quite the opposite situation.
The edits you are proposing are not in and of themselves bad; the issue is that you have no reliable sources to support the edits. The band's personal homepage or facebook page is insufficient for this.
I also think that you're going to have to provide a much better set of references regarding the reformation of the band than word of mouth.--Jorm (talk) 00:50, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Jorm I apologize for the childish antics, it wont happen again. In order to make the edits I will need to provide reliable sources as well as providing a much better set of references regarding the reformation of the band. Do I have that right? I am working as Brand Manager for the Climax Blues Band and we are well aware of the situation and "legal battle" that the U.K tribute band has us embroiled in. However, we will win that fight, and it's not right to allow this band made up of tribute artists to step all over Derek's legacy in the meantime.

They played in West Seattle https://www.westsideseattle.com/west-seattle-herald/2018/06/09/climax-blues-band-warms-white-center

They Played at Montana's Rockin the Rivers https://www.greatfallstribune.com/story/news/2018/04/23/skid-row-theory-deadman-everlast-rockin-rivers-three-forks-montana/542858002/

They Played at Seattle's Hempfest https://www.hempfest.org/festival/schedule/share-parker-main-stage/

They are Playing Sky River Rock Festival this Saturday https://www.skyriverrockfestival.rocks/lineup

What other kinds of information can I provide for added legitimacy? They are about to sign a deal with Warner Brothers for a record contract and 50th Anniversary re-launch. Regardless of how well I can play damage control right now, this whole shooting gallery will likely be taken over by the big boys and their lawyers soon enough. Thestormbrewer

• Jorm, Black Kite, I believe this is y'all's favorite band? Drmies (talk) 00:24, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

  Not remotely; I got here curious from an AN/I report, and the article was... not good when I got here.--Jorm (talk) 00:50, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Let's be clear that nobody has any claim to any Wikipedia article. There is no WP:OWNERSHIP of articles. They aren't to be used as a part of their subjects' publicity and outreach arsenals.

A couple of things I can say about your contributions is that (a) they include promotional material (WP:PEACOCK, WP:Puffery, WP:NPOV), which isn't allowed, and (b) you aren't citing sources; given your introduction to yourself here, it seems that you're adding original research, either your own observations or those of Derek Holt, which is also inappropriate. Largoplazo (talk) 00:55, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for the clarification. We do not presume to have WP:OWNERSHIP over any Wikipedia article. I understand that the language must be academic and not pander (WP:PEACOCK, WP:Puffery, or WP:NPOV). I understand that the information must be unbiased and educational rather than personal observations, original research, or the observations of Derek Holt, all of which would be inappropriate. - Thestormbrewer

Dear Jorm, I'm stating facts about Derek Holt's Climax Blues Band with sources, and I've read your edit summaries. Y'all can't allow me to add any factual information about what is happening in the U.S.A with the band and Derek Holt? I feel like information giving credibility to the U.K cover band is being accepted while information describing Derek Holt's project is being removed.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, I'm literally sitting in the studio with Derek Holt as I type this, trying to explain to the founder of the band why we can't edit the Wikipedia article explaining facts about his band. You guys have to be able to do something here for us, this is insanity.

Also why was Derek Holt removed from the members section, surely you can't be arguing he isn't in the band that he formed. (talk) 14:07, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

It's a new dawn, it's a new day, it's another attempt to put facts about Climax Blues Band on the Wikipedia page. If "In 2017 Climax Blues Band was re-formed by Derek Holt ; Derek Holt" cant be cited from climaxbluesband.us: then "In 2017, original member Derek Holt formed a new band in the USA, also bearing the Climax Blues Band name. This situation, according to the existing band, is currently the subject of legal action." Shouldn't be able to be cited from climaxbluesband.com. Why the cherry picking of information? It seems biased. Thestormbrewer (talk) 16:05, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Charlie Daniels of The Charlie Daniels Band, Roger Fisher formerly of Heart , and Dan Hill All wished Derek Holt "good luck" on his re-formation of the band and their 50th Anniversary Tour. "Charlie Daniels"."Roger Fisher"."Dan Hill". Thestormbrewer (talk) 16:05, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Creating a new band and article

• No. The Climax Blues Band that music fans know is the one that has continued from the original band, even though that band now has no original members since the death of Colin Cooper. This is certainly not unique for bands that have been going for 40-50 years or more. Indeed, if you look at it, three members of that band have actually been members for longer than Holt was a member in the first place. If Holt wishes to create a new band, that's fine; if he wishes to name it Climax Blues Band, that's an issue that need to be resolved with the original band; however, Holt certainly cannot take over this Wikipedia article, but would need to create a new article (something like Climax Blues Band (US)) although I suspect that band would not be notable enough at the moment. It would certainly be OK to mention this new band in this article - which indeed is the current situation. Black Kite (talk) 17:21, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

• Yes. Derek Holt has re-formed Climax Blues Band. The issue will be litigiously resolved with (the band with no original members.) Holt has no intentions of taking over any wikipedia article. The real issue currently is that so far every mention of the re-formed band has been removed, except for the one mention that is cited from: (the band with no original member's) website. Thestormbrewer (talk) 20:50, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

A) No, he has formed a band that is also named "Climax Blues Band". You can't "re-form" something that already exists. B) It's good he has "no intentions" of taking over any Wikipedia article, because he simply cannot, and to assume otherwise is to deeply misunderstand how Wikipedia works; and C) That's not an issue with the article in any way, shape, or form.--Jorm (talk) 21:10, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

A) Derek Holt is currently touring with the world's only Climax Blues Band featuring original members. B) Seemingly my previous comment was fully understood as intended. C) Which point is not an issue with the article? This appears convoluted.

In my opinion the accuracy of Wikipedia is paramount to any personal or commercial bias. However take everything I say with a healthy grain of salt; Derek Holt is a client of mine. I'm simply attempting to display facts as they are. I feel it should be mentioned that Derek Holt has formed a new band in 2017 featuring the artists he chose to tour with him. This is verified by several newspaper and music festival articles. Why does this information keep being taken down? It's accurate to say on the article that Derek Holt is currently touring with the world's only Climax Blues Band featuring original members. It's also accurate to display information about the artists he chose to tour with him. Also why has the legitimacy of citations from (the band with no original member's) website been ignored throughout this discussion? Thestormbrewer (talk) 21:50, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

If Mark Zuckerberg were to leave Facebook, move to North Korea, and start a business there called "Facebook", the business he left would still be the Facebook the existing article is about, and the newly founded one wouldn't be, regardless of its status as the "only Facebook" with the founder of the original Facebook on its staff.

Moreover, the same would hold true if the Winklevoss twins were to move to North Korea, start a business, and name it "Facebook". Largoplazo (talk) 22:44, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Both Zuckerberg facebooks would show up on that wikipedia page no question, the history outlining the events would be featured as well. Not so much for the Winklevoss twins. Thestormbrewer (talk) 01:00, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Again I ask why the legitimacy of citations from (the band with no original member's) website been ignored? Thestormbrewer (talk) 01:01, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

You're mistaken. The second Facebook would no more be covered by the original article, other than a mention to prevent reader confusion, than would any subsequent business set up by Zuckerberg that he didn't name "Facebook". A different business doesn't become the same subject just because it has the same name. Largoplazo (talk) 01:37, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

There would, at best, be a single line mentioning the new band. Most likely there would be a disambiguation template ("For the band formed in 2017 by Derek Holt, see Climax Blues Band (US)").--Jorm (talk) 01:59, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Understood Thestormbrewer (talk) 02:10, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

• The problem was, as you said above "Holt has no intentions of taking over any wikipedia article.". Yet that is what these edits of yours actually did, whilst insultingly referring to the existing band as "a tribute act". To answer your question about the primary sources, they are generally ok where material is uncontentious, and it is made clear that it is a primary source. In this case the links are to a list of gigs that they're playing, and a notice on their website saying they're aware of the new band (you will note the sentence says "according to the existing band" to make this clear).
• An example

• Yes. After the death of Chris Squire in 2015, Yes were left with no founder members. In 2016, one of the founders Jon Anderson formed Yes Featuring Jon Anderson, Trevor Rabin, Rick Wakeman. The article was not then re-written to suggest that Anderson's new band were the "real" Yes, nor that the existing band were a "tribute band" - indeed, such an idea would have been preposterous. You will note that the new band has a separate article (they're automatically notable per WP:MUSIC due to their notable members), and that band is mentioned in the relevant section of the main band's history. Black Kite (talk) 10:50, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Roger that Thestormbrewer (talk) 16:03, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Saying my edit was "Insulting" is conjecture, why is this not a purely academic conversation? Thestormbrewer (talk) 18:12, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Re-labeling a band that has been holding the name since the beginning (in an unbroken line, and longer than Holt was in the band) as a "tribute" band simply because Holt decided to form his own band is, indeed, "insulting". You may not see it that way, and that's fine, but the statement is, indeed, an insult.--Jorm (talk) 18:19, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

There seems to be a lot of steam in this kettle, and that is fine. Thestormbrewer (talk) 18:14, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Derek Holt

Hi I had a couple of messages to say I can’t edit the page on Climax Blues Band for various reasons, My name is Derek Holt and the real one as mentioned in the page on Climax, all I would like to do is highlight my name so as for fans to be directed to my website. Thanks Derek Holt founder member of Climax Blues Band! Derekholt (talk) 01:15, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, Wikipedia is not for your use in directing people to your website. In fact, no external link on Wikipedia should be understood to be present for the benefit of the destination website or anyone with an interest in it. Likewise, it's improper to add any content with a mind to how it will benefit any of its subjects. Largoplazo (talk) 01:53, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

Actually, I don't quite understand, because your edits linked your name to an internal article—that doesn't exist. Derek Holt redirects right back to this article. If it were an article of its own, then it would be proper for the first mention of your name in this article to be linked to that. (Even so, you would properly ask here on the talk page for someone else to do that, using the {{request edit}} template.) Largoplazo (talk) 02:00, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

Johnny Pugh

In the past member section, the link to Johnny Pugh gets to a baseball player of the same name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.196.214.176 (talk) 01:51, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Agreed. I've unlinked it. Largoplazo (talk) 02:55, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Lester Hunt's retirement

Lester has recently retired through ill health. 62.252.200.197 (talk) 12:22, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Do you have any source for that? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:37, 27 May 2022 (UTC)