Talk:Catholic Church sexual abuse cases in Ireland

Definition of sexual abuse

I have started a discussion over at Talk:Catholic sex abuse cases about the scope of the phrase "sexual abuse". This discussion was motivated by the removal of text regarding Eamon Casey and Michael Cleary (priest) from the article. Since both of those cases are discussed in this article, some of the editors of this article might wish to weigh in on the question of whether those cases should be discussed as "sexual abuse". --Richard S (talk) 19:58, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Add Seán Brady?

Should the actions and calls for the resignation of Seán Brady be added to this article? -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 21:51, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Sinead O'Connor

Since this was very popular, you may want to note her article and interview. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/25/AR2010032502363.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2010/03/25/ST2010032502452.html Regards Rumjal rumjal 14:05, 11 April 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rumjal (talk • contribs)

Name and scope

I'm not happy with the name or scope of Category:Catholic sexual abuse scandal in Ireland. I see it's a subcat of Category:Roman Catholic sex abuse cases by country; I don't know about other countries but it's not the right name for encompassing all the interrelated issues in Ireland. Pretty much every word is questionable.

• There is abuse, subtypes child abuse and sexual abuse, and the intersection child sexual abuse. Many institutional abuse victims, especially girls, were not sexually abused. Magdalen laundries' inmates were mostly not children.

• All these can occur either in the context of a Catholic religious organisation or elsewhere. Not all institutions were run by religious orders, or by Catholics.

• Not all sexual scandal resulted from abuse (arguable example Eamon Casey). Not all abuse results in scandal; aggregate abuse statistics can never be NPOV described as scandalous.

• Does Ireland mean the island or the state? The state institutional setup was different in Northern Ireland, but the diocesan setup was not. (Brendan Smyth)

I'm not sure the ultimate supercat Abuse in Ireland would be an appropriate name. But I do think some overall rejigging and renaming is needed; and if convenient then subarticles and subcategories could supplement it. jnestorius^(talk) 14:42, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

You are right in that most of the CICA abuse listed was endless beatings and underfeeding, and not sexual. The whole subject arose firstly with the sex abuse allegations, and then the physical beatings and Magdalene laundry mistreatments were added to the list. Scandal, or giving scandal, is a sin in the eyes of the Church (or it used to be) - I recall a pop star being denied recognition by county councillors in his home town in 1984 because it might "afford a scandal" as "the archbishop has his residence in the town". Ireland has to be the Ireland of Roman Catholicism in Ireland, in my view, which is the whole island.

So, are we to recast the article as "abuse of power", with sub-heads for the sexual and other abuses? Or "abuse of trust"? I think it is enough to keep the title, as the sex abuse was the worst and most notable abuse, while mentioning the other abuses alongside that have subsequently come out in the wash.Red Hurley (talk) 08:06, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

...and I might add a first section on the TV programs that first mentioned the abuses in the 1990s. Without these, and the subsequent inquiries into their allegations, much less would be known today.Red Hurley (talk) 08:36, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Catholic sexual abuse scandal in Ireland

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Catholic sexual abuse scandal in Ireland's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "RTE":

• From Cahal Daly: Tributes paid to Cardinal Cahal Daly, RTÉ, 31 December 2009.
• From Ivor Browne: "Would You Believe - Ivor Browne". RTÉ. Retrieved 13 June 2010.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 10:57, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

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Aftermath/Effects section

Is there any content that could be added to an aftermath or effects section? From what I understand, the scandal led to a dramatic change in the way the Church was viewed in Ireland, yet that is not mentioned in the article at all. Absolutelypuremilk (talk) 23:28, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

The Irish embassy to the Vatican was closed in 2011-14 per Holy See–Ireland relations. This was the visible iceberg part of an already huge loss of faith.78.16.57.123 (talk) 12:16, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

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Requested move 3 March 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: MOVED (non-admin closure) Danski454 (talk) 18:25, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

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Catholic Church sexual abuse scandal in Ireland → Catholic Church sexual abuse cases in Ireland – Per WP:CONSISTENCY with Catholic Church abuse cases, and Catholic Church sexual abuse cases by country. However scandalous indeed, would the consistency argument for the mere title do? PPEMES (talk) 17:18, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

• Support for move for consistency, but with a redirect. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 12:11, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Name and scope

I'm asking for a redirection or the Sexual abuse topic from the main landing to the Church. I Know how important it is to make sure we hold them accountable and blemish their reputation but this is actually way to far off center. As the church, if not already, will be rid of these looming events of the past. They should be long over by this time. The harm that this does is to the image of the church hurts your fellow people. With less respect and disgust for a once great aid to societal improvement, many have left congregations. The harm this causes to communities far outweighs the good it does to shame these individuals. When I first scroll down through the page, I immediately see those disgusting words and want to close it like a site filled with things that shock me. We need to keep the topic available but Maybe placing them under a main displaying category would be significantly beneficial to Class, Style, Etiquette, Manners, Social Skills, Intelligence, Wealth and so many more things the whole wide world is lacking now. I ask you all to please remember that saying bad things feels great right that instant however the harm it could inflict might be worse than the original complaint you had. Thanks! J — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.236.226.45 (talk) 19:13, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

So, to be clear, you want to further cover up the sexual abuses perpetrated by members of the RC church? How about no. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 12:01, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Possible copyright problem

This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage) Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. Moneytrees🌴^{Talk🌲Help out at CCI!} 02:20, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Hi Moneytrees. Is that the correct investigation subpage? 2010? Regards, Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 18:30, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Bastun, Yes, 20100114.... the oldest CCI (the name is the date it was opened), which I just finished. The editor was Pseudo-Richard, I removed mostly commented out text that were likely violations; he admitted to adding them in some edit summaries, like here. Moneytrees🌴^{Talk🌲Help out at CCI!} 19:55, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Wow, ok! Thanks for clarifying. Regards, Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 22:17, 21 July 2020 (UTC)