Talk:Anya (Anastasia)

1956 character

Anastasia is a same character of 1956 film of the same name? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2804:14C:598B:9789:B860:A8FD:7DFC:D42 (talk) 19:20, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Anya (Anastasia)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Pamzeis (talk · contribs) 10:24, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

I'll pick this one up. Ping me if I don't leave comments within a week. Will try not to screw this up. Pamzeis (talk) 10:24, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Prose

• Anya (born Anastasia Nikolaevna) — using "born" just feels very in-universe to me, like you're referring to a real person. Can this be replaced to be less in-universe?

• Well technically she was a real person lol, but I understand what you mean. I've removed "born Anastasia Nikolaevna" from the body of the paragraph and incorporated it into the footnote about her name instead.--Changedforbetter (talk) 18:24, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

• Grand Duchess Anastasia Nikolaevna of Russia, the youngest daughter of Nicholas II, and Anna Anderson — this is kinda ambiguous because it might mean that Anya is based on the youngest daughter of Nicholas, provided the reader likely doesn't know Anastasia is the youngest daughter... if that makes sense

• Although I understand that "the youngest daughter of Nicholas II" could be interpreted as an entirely different person on whom Anya was based out of context, I do think that's a bit of reach; this phrase is immediately preceded by "the character is loosely based on two historical figures". I will leave it as-is for now.--Changedforbetter (talk) 18:24, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

• White, the idea that — shouldn't idea be plural?

• Corrected.--Changedforbetter (talk) 18:57, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

• specifically the combination of spunkiness and sweetness she brings to her characters — this is more of an opinion, but it's stated as a fact

• Revised.--Changedforbetter (talk) 18:57, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

• For mechanical reasons, Ryan recorded most of her dialogue isolated from co-star John Cusack, who voices her character's love interest Dimitri, apart from one occasion on which the actors were allowed to record in neighboring sound booths, which Goldman believes benefited their performances. — there are a lot of ideas jammed into this sentence, making it hard to follow. Can it be split up?

• Revised.--Changedforbetter (talk) 18:57, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

• hired was unavailable, initially only hoping to — Callaway or the other singer?

• Callaway. Sentenced revised to make this clear.--Changedforbetter (talk) 18:57, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

• Paris, France to recover — comma after France

• Done.--Changedforbetter (talk) 19:26, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

• Anya appears in Anastasia on Ice, an — this kinda comes out of nowhere and feels like it's still talking about Anastasia's plot

• Fixed. Created separate sub-headings for the character's film and stage appearances.--Changedforbetter (talk) 19:26, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

• The first paragraph of #Critical reception mostly consists of "X of Y described Anya as Z", making it kinda boring. If you haven't read it already, WP:CRS is a useful essay for this

• Revised the entire section to comply with guidelines.--Changedforbetter (talk) 19:26, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

• others can't accept it because she wasn't an — informal contractions

• Fixed.--Changedforbetter (talk) 19:57, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

• Disney' streaming → Disney's streaming or Disney streaming

• Fixed.--Changedforbetter (talk) 19:57, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

• in several merchandise based → in much merchandise based or in a large amount of merchandise based

• Fixed.--Changedforbetter (talk) 19:57, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

• puzzles and CD-Rom games — comma after and

• Fixed.--Changedforbetter (talk) 19:57, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

Sources

• I'm not sure Bustle is the best source for the claim Although Anastasia was in fact murdered alongside her family in 1918 as it has an unclear reliability per RSP. The claim seems quite contentious because of the rumours. Can a better source be found?

• Originally I wanted a source that specifically compared the animated film to historical events in the context of the source, and this is the best I could find at the time. However, I've replaced the Bustle source about the death confirmation with a source from Encyclopædia Britannica, as well as a footnote elaborating the circumstances surrounding the discovery, with a source from the Los Angeles Times.--Changedforbetter (talk) 20:28, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

• What makes the following sources reliable:
  • Animated Views

Noted website devoted to animation and animated films which, in addition to reviews, regularly publishes content and interviews with artists/creators in the field.--Changedforbetter (talk) 19:38, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

• • The Portalist

• Review site owned by Open Road Integrated Media.--Changedforbetter (talk) 19:38, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

• • PopSugar

• Lifestyle website/magazine commonly used on Wikipedia; only used sparingly in this article to cite two points that are also supported by additional sources. --Changedforbetter (talk) 19:41, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

• • TheList.com

• Removed.--Changedforbetter (talk) 19:35, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

• • Throwbacks

• Removed.--Changedforbetter (talk) 19:35, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

• • Distractify

• I think it's suitable for stating an opinion about the "Disney Princess" topic, not too dissimilar from ScreenRant or BuzzFeed.--Changedforbetter (talk) 19:39, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
  • My concerns mostly stem from RSN discussions (see here and here) that deem the source unreliable. But more to the point, the website doesn't seem to be reporting an original opinion, but a "fact" about fans' opinions...

• Understood. All uses of Distractify removed; the same claims are supported with more reliable sources.--Changedforbetter (talk) 05:40, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

• • DVD Talk

• It's a noted film review cite, not much different than ReelViews. I think it's fine for the purpose it serves in the article, which is simply summarizing the plot.--Changedforbetter (talk) 19:32, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Spot checks all checked out

Other

• For File:Anya Anastasia.jpeg, the purpose of use is "To show what the character looks like". I don't really find this sufficient. Why does the reader need to know what she looks like?

• Revised to "To show readers what the character (the topic of the article) looks like, and how she differs in appearance to the historical figure on whom she is based."--Changedforbetter (talk) 19:46, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Article  On hold. Ping me when all have been resolved. Pamzeis (talk) 04:59, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

• Pamzeis Hi there, I believe all comments have been addressed. Awaiting response/verdict.--Changedforbetter (talk) 20:51, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Second look

• A former animator for Fox's then-rival studio Disney, critics believe — I think there's a grammatical error here, as the first bit is tied to critics, which means that it's saying the critics were a former animator for Disney

• Fixed. Changed to "Critics believe Bluth, a former animator for Fox's then-rival studio Disney, was inspired by skills"--Changedforbetter (talk) 05:34, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

• working for them Disney — I feel like there's something wrong her, but I can't quite put my finger on it...

• Fixed. Rogue "Disney" removed.--Changedforbetter (talk) 05:34, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

• Bluth and his co-director Gary — missing comma?

• Fixed.--Changedforbetter (talk) 05:34, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

• from actor John Cusack who — unsure but I think there's a missing comma?

• Comma added.--Changedforbetter (talk) 05:34, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

• two signature songs "Journey to the Past" and "Once Upon a December" — if there are only two, comma after songs

• Comma added.--Changedforbetter (talk) 05:34, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

• Anya first appears in the animated film Anastasia (1997). Banished by Nicholas — here we have the inverse of an above comment: it first talks about her first appearance and then in the next sentence, it talks about the plot. And I got a bit confused...

• Fixed. I just removed the "Anya first appears in the animated film" part.--Changedforbetter (talk) 05:34, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

• praised by critics for making Anya a charming and likable — WP:VOICE

• Fixed.--Changedforbetter (talk) 05:34, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

• voice acting for lacking charm — ditto

• Fixed.--Changedforbetter (talk) 05:34, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

• Fox for disrespecting Anastasia — ditto ditto

• Fixed.--Changedforbetter (talk) 05:35, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

I think that's it, in addition to a comment about the sourcing above. Pamzeis (talk) 11:54, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

Pamzeis thank you for your comments. I have once again addressed all concerns. --Changedforbetter (talk) 05:43, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Third look

I think that's everything! A  Pass from me! Pamzeis (talk) 05:40, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Disney Princess membership

Let’s be honest, she deserves it! — Preceding unsigned comment added by KieranCallahan72 (talk • contribs) 20:47, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

She may indeed, but it's not up to us to decide. The Disney Princess navbox does not belong on this page. Powers ^T 18:55, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Disney needs to add her now! They made merchandise for her so why not? — Preceding unsigned comment added by KieranCallahan72 (talk • contribs) 01:50, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

• Please do not use an article's talk page as a forum for personal discussions (i.e. WP:NOTFORUM) as discussions in this area should be kept on how to improve the article. Our personal opinions on whether or not Anya should be an official Disney Princess are not relevant to this talk page. Aoba47 (talk) 04:05, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Infobox image

There appears to be a back-and-forth regarding the infobox image. @Changedforbetter: is the primary contributor to the article and has used File:Anya Anastasia.jpeg (A) for the infobox, but @KieranCallahan72: has repeatedly introduced File:Grand Duchess Anya Anastasia.jpeg (B) despite repeated edits to revert back to the original image. In one of my edit summaries, I recommended that the talk page should be used to get consensus either way, but that was ignored so I am opening one myself.

To be completely honest, I am not a huge fan of either. I think the first one is too much of a close-up on the character, while I think the second just looks odd. Unfortunately, there does not appear to an official promotional image of the character as that would have been the ideal solution in this scenario. I would have personally gone with some sort of variation on the image used in this article as that scene, and frame in particular, seems to get a lot of focus in promotional materials, but I do get the rationale for wanting to include her in the dress.

Either way, I wanted to open this to get feedback to hopefully settle on an infobox image and avoid the back-and-forth editing that has been going on lately. Aoba47 (talk) 04:01, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

I am largely impartial towards the image used in the article, mostly because there are very few quality images of the character online (likely because she wasn't promoted in the way that other animated film characters typically are). The current image was the least offensive that I could find at the time I was writing the article; I am opposed to the image @KieranCallahan72 is insisting on using because, in addition to it being a rather poor quality image that hardly looks like the character, I feel the only reason they are trying to insert this image is because it looks vaguely similar to a Disney Princess promotional image, and the user seems insistent on inducting Anya into the Disney Princess franchise by way of Wikipedia as evidenced by their other edits. Changedforbetter (talk) 20:49, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

I changed the image to the dress because that dress is arguably the best design for the character. KieranCallahan72 (talk) 16:06, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Kieran, if a change you make is disputed, then the proper procedure is to seek consensus before making the change again. Don't just keep re-imposing your preferences on the article when other editors disagree. You have to discuss, not just force your changes into place. Powers ^T 14:11, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Either way, the dress image is awful.The current image is much better. 2001:4455:688:5F00:5C35:C041:2634:1B59 (talk) 01:58, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Anastasia Disney Princess

She deserves to be in the lineup and needs to have the [[Category:Disney Princess characters]] — Preceding unsigned comment added by KieranCallahan72 (talk • contribs)

Can you find a reliable source for that information? Powers ^T 16:03, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Being owned by Disney is not the same as being a Disney Princess

This Talk is for people to leave the subject once and for all, and understand that the character is NOT going to be a Disney Princess, and avoid information that confuses Wikipedia readers (in this case, confusion regarding belonging to The Walt Disney Company and belonging to the Disney brand, which are different things). Not even Princess Atta from A Bug's Life or Princess Kida from Atlantis: The Lost Empire are members simply because they are cartoon princesses that, unlike Anya/Anastasia, are from productions under the Disney label. Who does not understand the latter, I explain it below...

The members of the Disney Princess franchise receive that name because they are from productions under the Disney label. That is to say, productions distributed with the name "Disney" on the title, because they are productions of Walt Disney Pictures. It is not the same to be from "Disney", mentioning said label (which includes Walt Disney Pictures, Disney Channel Originals, and any other production of a studio with the name "Disney"), than to belong to "Disney", mentioning The Walt Disney Company in its entirety. Which has different labels/brands, including "Disney", "Pixar", "Marvel", and since the company acquired 20th Century Studios (Anastasia’s studio) and Searchlight Pictures, the productions of both studios also bearing their labels on their titles since said acquisition.

In short, The Walt Disney Company has "Disney" above its name, but there is a difference between it and the "Disney" brand. With the different divisions of the company having their different brands under their respective labels. BrookTheHumming (talk) 23:07, 18 February 2023 (UTC)