Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2024 April 30

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April 30

Creating an account

I am so confused. I am trying to create my own Wiki page, but it seems like I am going through a rabbit hole. I have never been blocked. What should I do? 76.176.79.181 (talk) 01:11, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

You need to be much more specific. What is the precise name of your account, and what specific problem have you run across? Cullen328 (talk) 02:13, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello, I'm guessing from your wording that you think that Wikipedia is like social media, and when you have an account you will automatically have a "page" where you can tell the world about you.

It is not like that. There is no connection between creating an account and editing Wikipedia articles; in fact, you can do most things as an editor without ever creating an account.

There is a kind of "page" associated with an account, but it is called a "user page", and it is not part of the encyclopaedia and doesn't get indexed by searcfh engines: it is for sharing information, if you choose, about yourself as a Wikipedia editor.

If your purpose here is creating a Wikipedia article about yourself, then I must tell you that writing about yourself is strongly discouraged here, and so difficult that very few people have ever been successful doing it.

If you meet Wikipedia's criteria for notability - broadly, that there has been enough material wholly indepenent of you published about you to base an article on - then an article on you is possible; but as I say, you are strongly discouraged from creating it yourself.

If not then no article about you is possible, whoever writes it.

If I have misunderstood, and you were not meaning an article about yourself, then I apologise: please explain more fully what you want. ColinFine (talk) 17:15, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Railway lines in Townsville in 1960

Are there any drawings/Maps of Railway lines in Townsville From 1955 to 1965? 2001:8003:F406:5B00:3CAF:AE71:912:85F4 (talk) 01:13, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

I presume that their copyright status would prevent their appearance in Wikimedia Commons. (I haven't looked there, as I presume that you've already done so.) -- Hoary (talk) 02:36, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps our article Great Northern Railway (Mt Isa line) and its references may be useful to you. My experience as a fan of historic railroads is that there is a wealth of locally published but quite useful books and journals about various railroads worldwide. The websites of the relevant railroad historical societies and museums often have plenty of information about route maps and related books for sale. That being said, the Help Desk is for asking and answering questions about editing Wikipedia. The Reference desks are for general knowledge questions. Cullen328 (talk) 09:08, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Cannot add content

I am not able to add content on few topics like Digital Signature, the content will help the readers in better understanding of the topic. Whenever I try to add it, it gets removed within24 hours along with the reference link , I am trying since past few times but no luck. Tell me how I can do it Cathy.miller123 (talk) 04:30, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Yes, Cathy.miller123. Decide what needs to be added or amended, based on one or more reliable, disinterested sources, unrelated to the company of which -- you say on your user page (and thank you for saying it) -- you are Vice President. Then, as you are not disinterested, don't make the edit but instead ask for it (of course specifying the source(s)), at the foot of Talk:Digital signature. -- Hoary (talk) 04:44, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Cathy.miller123, I took a look at one of your reverted edits. You were using non-neutral, advertising language to promote your employer. The Neutral point of view is a core content policy. Promotional editing is forbidden by policy. Cullen328 (talk) 05:55, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Looking for a tutor

I am quite new in English Wikipedia and need some quick lesion. Who can please help? מתיאל (talk) 08:03, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Hardly new? You have edited here since 2017 and paid editors will generally not be given much help here. Theroadislong (talk) 08:21, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Have you tried WP:TUTORIAL? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:26, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

I guess that I am old fashioned, but every time I applied for or accepted a job, going back over five decades, starting with delivering newspapers as an adolescent, moving on up to restaurant dishwashing and then on to increasingly responsible positions including 30 years of self employment, I was always fully confident that I could do the job well, and proved it in every job I ever held. Here you are, a paid editor asking highly experienced volunteer editors to train you to do your job that you should have already fully understood when you accepted your first paid editing gig. Doesn't that seem a bit strange to you? Cullen328 (talk) 08:41, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

With a bit more respect, if you are looking to learn how to use Wikipedia better for non-PAID/COI reasons, I'd be happy to help you understand a bit more about the site. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:53, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Can i write you. It's about the English WIkipedia. מתיאל (talk) 18:29, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

That's what User talk:Lee Vilenski is for. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:32, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Engineering

What is the engineering requirements and what does an engineer do on his daily basis lastly how much does it earn per month 41.115.31.128 (talk) 15:56, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

This is not a general Help Desk or question asking forum, please use your preferred search engine to find information on being an engineer. 331dot (talk) 15:59, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Information on Google Side Bar

There is information on our Google Side Bar that is incorrect, however, when I go to our wiki page to change it- I can't find the information. 97.64.208.178 (talk) 17:46, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Are you by any chance referring to a photo or text shown to the right of a Google search? Google's Knowledge Graph uses a wide variety of sources. There may be a text paragraph ending with "Wikipedia" to indicate that particular text was copied from Wikipedia. An image and other text before or after the Wikipedia excerpt may be from sources completely unrelated to Wikipedia. We have no control over how Google presents our information, but Google's Knowledge Graph has a "Feedback" link where anyone can mark a field as wrong. The same feedback facility is also provided on Bing and some other search engines. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 17:48, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

On a related note, Niabi Zoo stands in need of help in the tone and sourcing areas - not surprising if there's been COI editing going on. 57.140.16.48 (talk) 19:02, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Do you have to pay to have vandalism stopped on your profile?

A year ago I (paid) contracted with WikiModerator.com to have a page/profile created for my company Wainwright Global, Inc. which has been around since 2006, graduated over 6,000 students as Certified Professional Coaches, holds the CPC® credential USA Registered Trademark for Certified Professional Coaches.

The company, WikiModerator.com, is now asking for $1800 to put a "lock" on the account to prevent vandalism. I'm curious if that is legitimate or if the company is trying to take advantage of me.

This is the link they shared with me for my Wiki Page: https://en.wikialpha.org/wiki/Wainwright_Global_Institute_of_Professional_Coaching

I look forward to receiving a response.

Sincerely,

Barbara BarbaraWainwright (talk) 19:02, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

@BarbaraWainwright, this is a scam (you may want to read WP:SCAM). Please do not give them any more money. 57.140.16.48 (talk) 19:03, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Additionally, wikialpha.org is not associated in any way with Wikipedia. 57.140.16.48 (talk) 19:04, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your quick response. What is the correct way to get a page added to wikipedia? BarbaraWainwright (talk) 19:10, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

@BarbaraWainwright, ideally, someone entirely unconnected to your company would take notice of significant coverage in reliable sources and decide to write an article based on them. If you want to make the attempt yourself, you would first need to read and comply with WP:PAID, then start at Help:Your first article. Our notability guideline for companies is at WP:ORG, if you want to look that over. 57.140.16.48 (talk) 19:13, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Please see conflict of interest and paid editing. I think that you misunderstand Wikipedia and what we do here- this is not a database of things that exist, and is not a place for companies to tell about themselves. We are interested in what others say about your company, not what it says about itself. 331dot (talk) 19:16, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

@BarbaraWainwright: To further expound on 331dot's comment, when he says what others say about your company, he refers to sources that Wikipedia considers reliable, not testimonies. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 20:24, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you @Tenryuu, for the edification. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge. As far as I am aware, there are not too many sources that are writing about my company. And thank you @331dot, for your explanation as well. "Not a database of things that exist." I imagined that Wikipedia was a site where one could look up information a company for background, founders, when it was founded. I guess that is more appropriate for Zoominfo.com Thank you again for your time. BarbaraWainwright (talk) 20:40, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Alas (from your point of view), "there are not too many sources that are writing about my company." is another way of saying "is not a suitable subject for a Wikipedia article at this time". --Orange Mike | Talk 23:39, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

100% BarbaraWainwright (talk) 18:37, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

BarbaraWainwright, in my opinion, while Wainwright Global is a respectable business, it is not notable enough (in Wikipedia's weird sense) to warrant an article about it here (we call them articles, not profiles). But that's a matter of opinion. Things I am sure of: while WikiModerator.com will take your money, they have no power to put a "lock" on a Wikipedia article; and wikialpha.org is unconnected with Wikipedia. Maproom (talk) 20:32, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much @Maproom. I appreciate understanding about "articles"... and that my company doesn't warrant an article. There are a lot of companies that market the fact that can get you a Wikipedia article. I've got to admit it hurts a little bit (mostly in the wallet) to know they can't. Thanks again. BarbaraWainwright (talk) 20:44, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

The Wikimedia Foundation, which owns Wikipedia, only accepts donations, not payments. And donations are never leverage over the content of Wikipedia: the Wikipedia Community is in charge of the content, since the Wikimedia Foundation only ensures the servers, the software, the legal assistance, and so on, required for running Wikipedia. While the Wikimedia Foundation can sometimes intervene in Wikipedia, that is reserved for very blatant abuses. The Wikipedia Community is theoretically independent of the Wikimedia Foundation. tgeorgescu (talk) 21:08, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

BarbaraWainwright, your instincts were sound to ask here before paying them money to "lock" your page at WikiAlpha. The good news is, no one seems to have vandalized the page over there, and if you're interested in keeping an eye on it, you (or someone you trust) can get an account there and request to be notified over email if there are any changes to it, and that's free of charge. Even that may not be necessary, however, because for various reasons, Google rarely includes WikiAlpha pages in its top search results. I did not see that page in the first few pages of results when I searched for your company just now. The silver lining to that is, the sites that you have control over (your main website, your LinkedIn, Facebook, YouTube profiles, etc.) appear at the top of the search results, and if there were a Wikipedia article, it would likely also be in the top results, and you would not have control over its contents, even if a third party "guaranteed" that you would in exchange for payment. I apologize if all of this is confusing; the bottom line is you are wise to avoid paying for anything that cannot be guaranteed. 28bytes (talk) 01:37, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your detailed response. Here's the response from Bruce Morgan at WikiModerator.com.

"Hello Barbara,

I appreciate your concern and the information you've shared.

You're absolutely right that Wikipedia typically doesn't charge for locking profiles due to vandalism. However, it's worth noting that many profiles of prominent individuals, including celebrities and politicians, have locks automatically precisely because the risk of vandalism is exceptionally high.

What we're proposing for your profile is akin to this organic process. We're in direct communication with Wikipedia administrators to ensure that your profile receives the necessary protection against potential vandalism. We directly pay the administrators to ensure the process is as organic and seamless as possible

I understand your hesitation, but it's important to clarify that calling us a scam isn't warranted, especially considering that we've delivered everything as promised. Rest assured, We will go ahead and proceed without the lock, it's still in the submission process we didn't disturb the submission. I will keep you posted with the updates.

Thank You.

Regards,

Bruce Morgan"

Mind you, I paid them a year ago for this submission. I have no idea how long it "usually" takes to post a page... I'm not sure why he stated they have "delivered everything as promised", because the promise was a page on Wikipedia, which I'm aware, my company doesn't warrant.

Thank you again - all of you that responded to my question - I appreciate you all very much.

Warmly, Barbara BarbaraWainwright (talk) 18:58, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

I am sorry, BarbaraWainwright, but that email is packed full of lies and misrepresentations. Administrators are forbidden by policy from paid editing, and articles are only protected if there is ongoing disruption, not preemptively. Adminstrators protect pages quite quickly when justified, for free. That business about it's still in the submission process is highly dubious. The Articles for Creation process is open and transparent, and though it is backlogged, it doesn't take a year. I doubt that the name "Bruce Morgan" is real. These are corrupt people trying to convince you that Wikipedia's internal processes are also corrupt, which is false. Ask them for a link to the Articles for Creation page for your draft, which probably doesn't exist. Cullen328 (talk) 20:05, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you @Cullen328. I just asked the question "I'm curious if you have a link to the Articles for Creation page for the draft of my article on Wikipedia?" I will update if I get a response ;) BarbaraWainwright (talk) 21:57, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Here's the response for the request for the draft.

Moreover, as you have requested for your articles for creation page. Let me explain that to you, these creation pages are for normal or new users who are submitting profiles for the first time or whose profiles are not that mature like official Wikipedia admins. As you know we work directly with the official Wikipedia admins, their profiles are strong as the admins working with us have published more than 5000 profiles on Wikipedia. These admins don't use this article for creation method instead they have other alternate strong options.

Thank You

Regards,

Bruce Morgan

BarbaraWainwright (talk) 22:57, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

BarbaraWainwright, that is a very interesting response from WikiModerator. It is clear that they are trying to conflate WikiAlpha and Wikipedia, and they seem to be having a lot of success doing so, judging from the number of WikiAlpha articles created by the person who created yours. I can only guess at how much money they’ve acquired with that sleight of hand. If you are still communicating with them, consider asking if they can provide examples of articles they have “locked.” I would be happy to take a look at any examples provided (for free, of course!) and tell you if they do have any sort of lock or protection on them. 28bytes (talk) 21:33, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

The question has been asked. Awaiting a reply. Thank you for your support :) BarbaraWainwright (talk) 21:46, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Here's the response from Bruce Morgan:

Hello Barbara,

As regards your request for samples of Wikipedia pages, we have integrated a Semi-protection lock-on, usually, we do not share the profiles as this violates the privacy of our clients. However, since you are concerned about it, I am sharing the links of those clients I have permission for.

You can review here,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Borodin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alida_Morberg

Moreover, as you have requested for your articles for creation page. Let me explain that to you, these creation pages are for normal or new users who are submitting profiles for the first time or whose profiles are not that mature like official Wikipedia admins. As you know we work directly with the official Wikipedia admins, their profiles are strong as the admins working with us have published more than 5000 profiles on Wikipedia. These admins don't use this article for creation method instead they have other alternate strong options.

Thank You

Regards,

Bruce Morgan BarbaraWainwright (talk) 22:55, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

From what I'm reading, and from a naive perspective, they sound legit. I'm so glad I came here to get help and clarification. Blessings to all of you who have pitched in on the answer. BarbaraWainwright (talk) 22:59, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

I can assure you as a very experienced Wikipedia administrator, they don't even speak the language. Everything they are saying is so, so wrong. I would add that I know the admin who protected the second article they mention and there is no way he is on this person's payroll. It is interesting seeing how they keep trying to spin it though. Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 23:12, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

@Just Step Sideways - thank you for confirming that! BarbaraWainwright (talk) 23:59, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

I suspect they went down the list of protected pages and chose two at random, although they likely didn't go too far down as they both start with "A". The idea that an article would take a year to be mainspaced is ridiculous. I do worry about how much money has been made from this process, but it is interesting to see the exact wording they try to use. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 23:19, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Good point about the beginning of the alphabet, Lee Vilenski. Also, I know the editor (not an admin) who created the original stub version of Alida Morberg in 2019, and there's no way he's working with those scammers either. Bishonen | tålk 23:29, 1 May 2024 (UTC).

Thank you, BarbaraWainwright, for sharing that response; it is, again, very interesting. To add to what Bishonen said, I see that Allan Borodin was protected way back in 2015, so it seems very unlikely to me that this company had anything to do with it. 28bytes (talk) 23:55, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

I am so grateful for all the help, knowledge and wisdom shared here. Thank you all so much.

I'd say that "Bruce Morgan" can be very convincing with his responses. I'm so glad I didn't spend the $1800 he was telling me it cost to "lock" the page.

Thank you to everyone that helped me to confirm this was a scam. BarbaraWainwright (talk) 00:15, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

@BarbaraWainwright: Please don't post any more email exchanges between you and others here or on any other Wikipedia pages. Wikipedia pages are public pages and doing so could possibly be considered a violation of WP:OUTING. It's much better for you discuss things of a personal nature via email; for example, you can report the details of any concerns you might have about undisclosed paid editing or paid-editing scams using the email address given in WP:PAID#Reporting undisclosed paid editors. Discussing general things on Wikipedia is fine but individual names others and other possibly personally identifying information should probably be avoided. This is for your benefit too because whatever you post can also be seen by said others and there's no way to predict how they might respond. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:45, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

I don't agree that posting a scammer's emails is outing. Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 01:45, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Same. Nonetheless, BarbaraWainwright, you are welcome to email me any additional follow-up emails you receive rather than post them here. Hopefully you have the information you need. 28bytes (talk) 01:51, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your concern @Marchjuly. I did not actually post anyone's personal information, such as a phone number or email address. The name "Bruce Gordon" is most likely not the scammer's real name. Though I did post their website address. I hope that isn't considered "outing". BarbaraWainwright (talk) 02:57, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

My apologies BarbaraWainwright if my post came across a bit too harsh. My personal opinion is that you should probably refrain from posting anyone's name, paricularly in a situation like this when the other person is being accused of being a scammer, just to err on the side of caution. Even if you strongly suspect the name to be phony, you probably should avoid doing so. That's information probably better left to passing on via email. There's really nothing you posted above about your experience that requires knowing the other person's name and there's no real loss in understanding suffered by not knowing it. In addition, by including those two Wikipedia article links in one of your posts, you may have indirectly associated the subjects of those two articles with some kind of scam, which nobody here has anywhere of verifying. Again, your post could've been more than sufficiently understood without those two links.

Some other things you might want to look at for reference are WP:REALNAME and WP:REALWORLD. Wikipedia users are free to use their real names as their account names if they want, but every edit an account makes on Wikipedia is publicly visible to basically anyone who wants to look at it; moreover, what they do with such information isn't something Wikipedia can control. So, if you're OK with that, then no big deal; if not and your account name is your real name (you don't need to confirm or deny this here), you might want to consider a username change.

Finally, you might want to go back over your email exchanges with this person/company and double check whatever agreements you might've made with them. There are lots of websites that have "Wiki" as part of their name, but there's only one "Wikipedia" so to speak. The Wikipedia software is free and open-sourced to make it easier for others to use and modify, but whether they use in good ways or bad ways isn't really something that can be controlled, Even though the company website you linked to above is full of references to Wikipedia and promises all kinds of things, it's not connected to Wikipedia in anyway. If the agreement you entered into only promised you the creation of the Wikialpha page you linked to above, then that might be what you got and there's really nothing anyone can do here to help you (even by email). Your best course of action in that case might just be to seek assistance from a consumer affairs bureau or a lawyer to figure out if there are other options available to you to try to recover any losses you might've suffered. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:44, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

@Marchjuly I get what you are saying, but I think your words are missing what this conversation was about. Sure, WP:OUTING would be a concern if the scam was not a scam and instead the real deal (it obviously isn't, it's just lies) or if the scammer had accounts that tried creating the articles, so it's good advice to not name them - but this was admins and the OP indulging on their curiosity at what lie the scammers come up with, so I think it hurts the idea that you're trying to pass by writing "[..] you may have indirectly associated the subjects of those two articles with some kind of scam, which nobody here has anywhere of verifying", which now suddenly implies all sorts of things about your lack of trust on the admins who locked those articles, which I'm sure you didn't mean at all.

Your first post was better, with the link of how to report these things, though even then it failed to state when/why it would be outing and started at asking to not post the emails at all, not even censored. – 2804:F14:80EE:5A01:69AC:1D4:C0C3:D952 (talk) 10:06, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Basically, maybe it's better to just move on. – 2804:F14:80EE:5A01:69AC:1D4:C0C3:D952 (talk) 10:10, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia:List of paid editing companies#Sybex Lab, wikimoderator.com is one of numerous websites controlled by a company in Pakistan. When they keep making new websites for the same "service", it sounds like they don't expect to live off a good reputation but rather hide from a bad one. "Bruce Morgan" may be made up to sound American. I'm also a Wikipedia administrator and agree with others that their claims about Wikipedia sound completely false. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:30, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

I appreciate your viewpoint and information. Thank you for sharing. @PrimeHunter BarbaraWainwright (talk) 21:26, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Learning to Program templates.

I'm looking to upgrade a template for an infobox for a Wikiproject that I am on. (adding a few maintenance categories). Where can I find documentation and/or pages where I can ask questions. (this template is used on less than 500 pages and I have editted it in the past, just with a less complex request).Naraht (talk) 21:20, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

@Naraht: H:IB should give you the answer. If you still have questions, reach out to the people on the Wikipedia:WikiProject Infoboxes project. They know a lot about infoboxes. If you still have questions, ask them here. @Avishai11 Avishai11 (talk) 23:00, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Socks with no masters

I've got a situation where, based on edit behaviour and the circumstances of their account I'm nearly certain an editor I'm engaging with is a sock. Specifically they are acting in a way that I've seen in the past where an editor protects their principal account for blow-back for WP:AFG and WP:NPA violations by having an attack-account. The problem is that I don't have any sense of who the sock master might be. I would normally take a sock to WP:SPI but you really need at least one other account to do so. Is the only recourse WP:AN/I or is there some other method I could use to raise these concerns? Simonm223 (talk) 21:41, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

@Simonm223: If you know of a checkuser who is receptive to being asked if an offender(or DUCK) is a repeat-or-multi-accounted offender and there's things you can point out to convince them to do so, you could ask them to check: Wikipedia:CheckUser#Grounds for checking. That's the non-bureaucracy way that I know of at least. – 2804:F14:80C8:4701:4D4A:EEE9:FF56:A392 (talk) 22:52, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

The 'CheckUser and the privacy policy' and 'Contacting a checkuser' sections expands on that a bit more as well. – 2804:F14:80C8:4701:4D4A:EEE9:FF56:A392 (talk) 23:02, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, that's very helpful Simonm223 (talk) 23:09, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Simonm223 - drop me a note on my talk. No promises until I've reviewed the behaviour, naturally, but if it's an obvious bad faith bad hand then I'll take a look. Girth Summit _(blether) 15:36, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Actually got another CU I trust checking into it already. ;) Simonm223 (talk) 18:25, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

But thank you very much. Simonm223 (talk) 18:26, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Deletion Criteria

Hi,

Am I allowed to propose deletion if all of the sources are in a different language (Arabic)?

Best,

@Avishai11

Avishai11 (talk) 22:49, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Avishai11. No, that is not a valid reason for deletion. English language sources are preferred if abundant. But references to sources in other languages are perfectly acceptable. Cullen328 (talk) 00:35, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Relevant link: WP:NONENG —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 00:38, 1 May 2024 (UTC)