User talk:Student7/Archive 12

Season's tidings!

To you and yours, Have a Merry ______ (fill in the blank) and Happy New Year! FWiW Bzuk (talk) 04:12, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

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...

Colossians 1:15-16

Merry Christmas!
History2007 (talk) 20:30, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

I wish you would read the references

I remember a long time ago you moderated the comment about the Chamber of Commerce in the Right-to-work law article by removing the word "powerful" (you changed "powerful business interests led by the Chamber of Commerce" to "business interests led by the Chamber of Commerce") and yet the scholarly references provided make it quite clear that it was "powerful business interests led by the Chamber of Commerce" and use that exact language. Now you moderate it even further in a misguided effort to sound non-biased but the reality is that you are injecting your own view without even reading the source material. MoodyGroove (talk) 16:34, 20 December 2012 (UTC)MoodyGroove

What, exactly, does "powerful" mean? More powerful than a locomotive? Faster than a speeding bullet? Leaps tall buildings? It is a subjective adjective with little objective meaning. The media loves these terms, even otherwise WP:RS uses them, if the article is long enough. Being an encyclopedia, with no need to garner attention through hype, let's skip subjective adjectives. That is one of the prime differences between us and the media. We should strive to deliver the facts, not to "color" them, as they are doubtlessly taught to do in journalism classes. Student7 (talk) 02:41, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Powerful means politically connected. And these academic journals are written by academics. Which you might realize if you read them. MoodyGroove (talk) 15:57, 23 December 2012 (UTC)MoodyGroove

I know several politicians. Does that make me powerful? How many politicians do I have to know or have "clout" with, to make me powerful? Adjectives are, by their very nature, subjective. Nearly all authors use them. We are taught to do so in writing or journalism classes. Unfortunately, they usually mean nothing for an encyclopedia.

One of our best editors described a certain war as "bloody." While there have been a few "bloodless" coups or nearly so, most wars are, by their nature, bloody. Quite possibly, "sufficient" bloodletting is a prerequisite for calling an event a "war" instead of a "riot" or some other noun. This is an encyclopedia. Why not let the gentle reader decide if it was bloody? S/he is the one writing the paper for his/her journalism class. Let him/her supply the analysis, and the adjectives.

We should not "lead" the reader as though they are common media consumers. Wikipedia readers are often uncommonly intelligent. Let them figure it out. With enough facts, they can do so.

BTW, this often renders the article, if otherwise controversial, less controversial, for having "facts" rather than adjectives. Instead of "Obama stupidly did..." or "Obama brilliantly did...", an "Obama did..." states the presumably RS facts, without media spin.

ALL media spins facts, even "reliable" ones. We should use their facts but not their "spin." Student7 (talk) 01:36, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

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Talk:Haiti

Hello Student7. I've replied to your comment at Talk:Haiti about accents in the Haiti article, and was wondering if you'd care to reply? Thanks. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 17:16, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

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Volunteering at WP:DRN

Hi. I notice you're on the list of volunteers at the Dispute resolution noticeboard, with the qualification "temporarily for template:Governance of Palestine dispute". As that discussion has finished, you might want to remove your name. Of course, you are very welcome to continue to volunteer if you want, though in that case you would probably want to remove the "temporarily..." qualification. CarrieVS (talk) 13:00, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the notification. I've rm my name. Student7 (talk) 23:44, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Wikidata

Wikidata has been deployed to the English Wikipedia. Wikidata manages interwiki links on a separate project on pages such as this.

You are receiving this as you have recently reverted a user removing interwiki links.

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Take a look at

Talk:David. Coincidence? Dougweller (talk) 08:49, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of List of schools in Haiti for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article List of schools in Haiti is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of schools in Haiti until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Student7 (talk) 23:32, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

WP:Articles for deletion/List of schools in Haiti

Regarding this set... You are the creator and only editor, you can just ask for deletion with putting {{db-g7}} on the page. No need to take it to AfD for this. Similarly, it's not a bad redirect to have, I wouldn't object to it as it is now. I'm going to close your AfD cause if you want it deleted you can just g7 it, and if you don't you can just leave it as is now. It seems fine to me. But if I'm missing something feel free to undo my closure.

It's no big deal either way, but whichever way you want it to go, you don't need to deal with the extra AfD procedure. Shadowjams (talk) 01:47, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! Student7 (talk) 14:38, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Vandalism

Some of your edits to same-sex marriage were borderline vandalism. This is because you changed text which at times quoted directly from sources. Don't do it again please. Pass a Method talk 05:44, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

(Editor apparently complaining about the substitution of the word "sex" for "gender"; the latter a euphemism taken from linguistics in the 70s by the media and long forsaken, even by Wiktionary (see second definition). Student7 (talk) 14:38, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Help on the Filioque article

Hey I posted these concerns [1] on the filioque article talkpage to move toward removing the bias tag from the article lede. LoveMonkey (talk) 16:24, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

List of schools in Haiti listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect List of schools in Haiti. Since you had some involvement with the List of schools in Haiti redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion (if you have not already done so). Student7 (talk) 14:51, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

(Nothing like talking to yourself via an Rfd!) Student7 (talk) 17:58, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Avoid

I would avoid deleting religions purely based on religious statistics because notability may also be connected to how deep a tenet is to a certain religion, coverage in reliable sources and other factors i.e. WP:NONPROFIT Pass a Method talk 21:38, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

The above is of course from someone who has wanted to consider the Raelians a major religion. I'm not sure what prompted the comment above, but if you tell me what the object in dispute is, I could probably try to offer what assistance I can. You could reply here, because I have the page marked, or maybe drop a "talkback" notice on my user talk page, because unfortunately I have lots of pages on my watchlist. Unfortunately. John Carter (talk) 22:51, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your interest. I made a comment in Talk:Religion_and_sexuality#Satanism regarding a restoration of material that didn't seem germane. Small numbers again. I didn't give a reference, but they are "available." I ran across a few. I think any American (not necessarily a non-American) can recognize that this is essentially a teen-aged boy's religion. You never meet an adult who is an adherent. As I mentioned in the comment, we really need a sensible threshold for minorities. Maybe Bai Hai, Judaism, Sikhs, American churches like Church of Christ Scientist, U-U, Scientology, but after a while, there needs to be a cutoff. Because of the member composition and high turnover, Satanism seems more frivolous than a "real" religion anyway. Pass a Method did not respond on discussion page, but I think I have the right article. Student7 (talk) 17:03, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Category:Visitor attractions

Thanks for your comment at category talk. Surely I would like to nominate this inappropriate category. However, it has already survived one CFD attempt. What would an effective CFD reason be? I need a good one, because there are over 200 subcategories, each of which would need to be tagged! Regards Gilliam (talk) 07:31, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Suspected copyright violation at "History of the East–West Schism"

This edit of yours at History of the East–West Schism appears to be a copyright violation and clear plagiarism of the lecture "AN INTERPLAY BETWEEN THEOLOGY AND SOCIETY" by John S. Romanides (Patriarch Athenagoras Memorial Lectures 1981 Holy Cross Orthodox Press). [The results of the Duplication report between the source URL and the last version that used your edits are bad but actually seem to underestimate the actual duplication.] It calls your entire series of edits to that article into question (in fact, all your edits), and the article will likely have to be reverted prior to your edits to be sure it does not infringe on the copyright of others. If I have erred, please explain how and accept my apologies; otherwise, please explain this edit. Jason Quinn (talk) 17:45, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

One thing about being ignorant, is that I am not responsible for anything later! I tried to work on East-West Schism by moving the entire bulk of the "history" subsection out to a separate article, none of which I wrote. We are supposed to all be working to shrink the original article "East-West" schism since the bulk of it was forked. This hasn't happened. Since I know next to nothing about the topic and am merely an "organizer", I don't know where to start.

Maybe you can threaten the East-West Schism authors their with deletion of their entire article. That would produce some interesting results!

In the meantime, I will try to find out who the real originator was. And yes, I may have manipulated it within the article you are discussing, but I doubt I put it there "originally." Student7 (talk) 19:24, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

In fact, see East-West_Schism#Political_division_between_East_and_West. Ta Da! Student7 (talk) 19:28, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Okay. That's good to know. I'll try to restore as much of your work as possible (sans this edit) to History of the East–West Schism. I can perfectly understand how this happened now. It's always a good idea to be careful with copying large portions of text. I'll move to the originators of this material at the East-West_Schism article. Cheers, Jason Quinn (talk) 20:03, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

I looked into it too. I think the problem was introduced by you with this edit at 15:01 on 27 November 2012. The material started out as a quoted material in between ref tags (way too much material to quote, IMO). Due to the fact that the material between the ref tags was so long, I think you mistook it as regular text, not footnote text, and it got converted to regular text. An honest mistake. Whoever originally added the material properly cited it but used way too much. This is bad because A) it can cause what happened to happen, B) quoting too much of a source may be a copyright violation itself, and C) large blocks of text often require interpretation, whereas Wikipedia's refs are supposed to (more or less) directly support the sentences they are attached to. Jason Quinn (talk) 20:40, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. I guess. Could not quite follow either my original edit, nor your correction, so the problem still exists in the parent article. I do know what you are saying, however. Student7 (talk) 22:28, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

I apologized on the East-West Schism discussion page. If you would like me to say more, I will do so on that page, or here, or anyplace else. Just let me know what you would like to hear/see, and where. Thanks for your efforts. Student7 (talk) 19:35, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Invitation to WikiProject Breakfast

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Brevard County Manatees

The Brevard County Manatees came to town to play my Daytona Cubs last week. I took some photos of the game and will be uploading them shortly. I will let you sort them out on the Manatees page, if you are interested in working on it. Gamweb (talk) 17:12, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Good for you!

Can't help. Sorry. Student7 (talk) 18:31, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

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Note about a quote

I noticed that one of the quotes on your user page is the "cuckoo clock" speech from The Third Man, which you attribute to Graham Greene, author of the screenplay. According to Greene himself, as cited in the WP article on the film, the line was added by Orson Welles for timing purposes. Just thought you'd like to know. Rklear (talk) 16:18, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. Student7 (talk) 20:30, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

May 2013

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Florida may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page. Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 23:36, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

(I moved a sentence, faking out the bot. I don't see how these things function anyway. A person would have been confused!). Student7 (talk) 00:42, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Nope. The bot was right. Extra paren left by me. Another ten years, bots will be replacing us. Or me, anyway!  :) Student7 (talk) 18:32, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Education in the United States: Educational Attainment

Hello Student7,

I hope this note finds you happy and well. I'm new to this community and editing. Thanks for your engagement around information I added to the "Education in the United States" entry under "Educational Attainment." I added a bit more detail, as well as a link to the source material and page number. My hopes were to 1) establish that the quote was from the cited material 2) explain the point the authors make more clearly and 3) 2) provide easy access to the source material for reference. I also hope that access to the source material and explanation of the authors' point will help underscore their expertise.

I hope my revision answered your concerns, I look forward to your feedback. I first came across this information in an education course at Yale's School of Management taught by an experienced education administrator. McKinsey has one of the top reputations in the world as a/the premier management consulting firm. While much in education is highly controversial, my hope is that these additions are not.

Many thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ekimbro (talk • contribs) 16:51, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Illegal drug trade

Just reverting me wont help as there si a section on tobacco in the article. I have opened a discussion here and am open to consensual changes whatever they may be but a partial revert merely of my edit, when as you well know I didnt add the tobacco section initially, is not helpful. Thanks, ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 21:54, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Oldest Lutheran Church in western hemisphere

Is Frederick Lutheran in Charlotte Amalie, United States Virgin Islands but it's not even got it's own article. You worked heavily on that page can you please fix this deficit? 97.85.168.22 (talk) 02:57, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm just a patroller/reviewer. I have been to Charlotte Amalie several times, but do not qualify as an expert. Student7 (talk) 16:38, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

So long...

I got this but my time is up next week. I wish you the best. History2007 (talk) 11:18, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

I also noticed you are not on this newsletter list. From June 2013 there is a new "in focus... " format, book reviews, Christianity-DYK, etc. that refer to some articles of interest. Please just take a look at the June issue (should be released soon) and see. You just need to add your name to the list here. They are also offering a 3 month money back guarantee deal next week. History2007 (talk) 11:20, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

I've subscribed. Thanks for the tip! Good luck! Student7 (talk) 23:46, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Remember that there is a money back deal there. And please do watch the articles mentioned in the next 5 issues. They are central, as the June issue discusses. By the way Jesus' page is WP:GA now and I just nominated Christ, but no one has looked at it. If you keep an eye on the Christ page, may He bless you. History2007 (talk) 00:04, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

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Hello help with the Filioque.

Hey could I get your help or input on the filioque article? Esoglou has taken to editing it again. His last edit made it appear that the Creed was indeed appended to include the filioque and that would mean through out Christianity east and west. [2] LoveMonkey 20:28, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Over my head. It seems to me that the article allows for controversy between the two opinions and contention even in the Latin Church. Note that the tag suggests that the article may be too complicated for most readers. Student7 (talk) 17:14, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

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Martha Stewart did not commit perjury

Your user page incorrectly claims Martha Stewart was convicted of perjury. This is incorrect. She was convicted of making false statements, a similar but different crime, the main difference being violation of an oath. To some of us, the lack of an oath to tell the truth is a key difference between Martha Stewart, and say, the recent NSA chief testimony. Int21h (talk) 23:26, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Wiknic Poway / San Diego

Join us this Saturday for the Great American Wiknic!

	Great American Wiknic San Diego at Old Poway Park, Poway
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I hope to meet you there! Jim1138 (talk) 08:37, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

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Your request for help

You put this on a page for Texas participants, which was the wrong place. First of all, the only state project it's relevant to is Mississippi. And secondly, you might get more help at WikiProject United States, so I transferred it over there. Good luck. — Maile (talk) 00:09, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

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WikiProject Christianity Newsletter (July 2013)

ICHTHUS

July 2013

From the Editor

Welcome to the July 2013 issue of Ichthus. We focus on the chronology of Jesus, as well as looking back at the project content improved over the last month.

WP:X has gained another Featured Article, Gospel of the Ebionites, by Ignocrates. The Gospel of the Ebionites is the name scholars give to an apocryphal gospel that supposedly belonged to a sect known as the Ebionites. It consists of seven short quotations discovered in a heresiology known as the Panarion, written by Epiphanius of Salamis, and its original title remains unknown. The text is a gospel harmony composed in Greek, and is believed to have been written during the middle of the 2nd century.

St Mihangel's Church, Llanfihangel yn Nhowyn was promoted to Good Article status, as was two other welsh churches, St Enghenedl's Church, Llanynghenedl, and St Peter's Church, Llanbedrgoch.

The main page also featured several DYK hooks for articles in our project, namely Bob Fu, List of places of worship in Tandridge (district), Catholic Press, Garendon Abbey, St. John's Episcopal Church (Jersey City, New Jersey), Pargev Martirosyan, Praskvica Monastery, Heather Preceptory, St. Augustin, Coburg, Longleat Priory, St Mihangel's Church, Llanfihangel yn Nhowyn, St Enghenedl's Church, Llanynghenedl, Christianization of Moravia, Christianization of Bohemia, Repton Abbey, St Peter's Church, Llanbedrgoch, Medingen Abbey, Elmhurst Christian Reformed Church, St. James on-the-Lines, and Leopold Karl von Kollonitsch.

Church of the month

St. Michael's Golden-Domed Monastery is part of Saint Sophia's Cathedral, Kiev in Ukraine. It is a functioning monastery that dates back to the Middle Ages.

Membership report
The parent Christianity WikiProject currently has 367 active members. We would like to welcome our newest members, Newchildrenofthealmighty, Evenssteven, Kerna96, and FutureTrillionaire. If any members, new or not, wish any assistance, they should feel free to leave a message at the Christianity noticeboard or with me or other individual editors to request it.

Focus on...

THE
HISTORICAL JESUS

When did Jesus live? When did he die? How do we know? We do, in fact, have excellent information about the time intervals for the life and death of Jesus. As in other people who lived and died in the first century, this gives an approximate date range, but still, give or take 3-4 years and we have pretty good estimates confirmed by a number of really diverse sources, ranging from inscriptions in Delphi to Roman and Jewish sources. The Chronology of Jesus article discusses how a wide variety of Christian, Jewish and Roman sources are used to establish the time-frame for the life and death of Jesus.

And all of his data fits together. For instance, the chronology of Paul had been discussed based on the Book of Acts long ago, then the Delphi Inscription is found in the 20th century in the Temple of Apollo. And guess what.. it confirms it and totally dates his trial in Corinth, which helps reaffirm the date of the crucifixion of Jesus. The same date range is independently estimated from the writings of Josephus on the Baptist's death. And it fits Isaac Newton's astronomical models for the crucifixion date as well as the independent lunar calculations of Humphreys. As that article shows, all these dates just fit together.

From the bookshelf

Chronos, kairos, Christos: nativity and chronological studies edited by J. Vardaman, E. M. Yamauchi 1989 ISBN 0-931464-50-1

This two volume book (with a very apt title) is gem-filled with scholarly research. Paul Maier's article in the first volume is a classic study on the chronology of Jesus and provides a useful summary of a number of issues.

Did you know...

Hemis monastery

• ... that the Russian journalist Nicolas Notovitch who in 1894 originated the story that there was evidence at the Hemis monastery that an adult Jesus had traveled to India, later confessed to fabricating his evidence?

Calendar
This month (July) contains the feast days of Mary Magdalene, and James, son of Zebedee.

---

Help requests
Please let us know if there are any particular areas, either individual articles or topics, which you believe would benefit from outside help from a variety of other editors. We will try to include such requests in future issues.

Ichthus is published by WikiProject Christianity.
For submissions contact the Newsroom • To unsubscribe remove yourself from the list here

EdwardsBot (talk)21:05, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

This issue was distributed on behalf of Gilderien, current editor of the Ichthus, at 21:05, 30 June 2013 (UTC). Comments and other feedback are always welcome at his talk page.

Allied Invasion of Sicily

Hi! I just wanted to respond personally regarding the recent edits on language in the above article. I have pointed out that the article has been habitually in British English (words like armour, defence, -ise words and the dmy date format have been established from way back). Under WP:RETAIN this should not be changed. I have left the -ize edits you made because this form, although not the normal British English form, is an accepted alternative form. I have taken out the American English banner from the talk page since this is not justified. Best Regards. Stephen Kirrage ^{talk - contribs} 09:29, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Re:

We don't need to use an inferior source like thinkprogress - the info on the stomach pains appears in reliable sources such as this NYT article: www.nytimes.com/2009/03/08/world/europe/08vatican.html‎. Possibly also sources that are already cited (I recall reading it somewhere, I just found it easier to google terms than to open all the cited sources). Your "dubious" tag is inappropriate - you weren't there and it's not your job to tell the doctors they were wrong. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 17:05, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. The NY Times article had been archived. I found http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/brazil/4960546/Brazilian-girls-abortion-sparks-Catholic-row.html which would have been okay except my colleague rm it! Here I thought it was two against one! And I was right, too, except that I was the one!  :)

As far as the doctors go, they should be accountable like anyone else IMO, where privacy or confidentiality is not an issue. It is not an issue here. Medicine is an art. Nevertheless, considering the visibility, the doctors could have said "We thought she was in danger of death because her blood pressure was 230/160," or whatever. They decided to play it politically and not bother. I do not find their mere statement credible. Perhaps they were afraid that the "rape" (presumed) charge would not hold up and this is why they said it was a matter of life or death. But I have to presume that, because they apparently never bothered to give a real reason. Student7 (talk) 00:27, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

If you're interested in discussing the particulars of the case for fun, please do clarify that wish for me - I'm not opposed to it. But right now it seems like you're bringing these things up out of the desire that your own personal analysis should supersede a) medical opinion b) as published in reliable sources, which is not an appropriate way to handle an article. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 03:34, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

I will reply on article page. Student7 (talk) 18:08, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Hume opinion

Your recent entries on David Hume strike me as perplexing coming from a seasoned editor. To my mind it's a clear case of WP:NOTOPINION. As they have nothing to say about editing the article, would you please remove them? Thanks. ~ Alcmaeonid (talk) 17:11, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

You are doing something similar on The History of England (Hume). I have reverted your edit there and made comments on its talk page. Myrvin (talk) 20:59, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

It seems that you lifted the "Anti-" sentence, complete with your additions, added them to the lead of the History article, and attributed the ideas to the paper by Wertz. I don't think you actually checked the Wertz article, which is about Hume and Human Nature and doesn't mention, directly, Humes biases. The Wertz citation in the Hume article follows, and actually refers to, the sentence "Historians have debated whether Hume posited a universal unchanging human nature, or allowed for evolution and development." The anti-wirds seem to be uncited - except that you have referenced a Catholic website [3]. I don't think you read that website piece either (except for the title), because it is all about Hume's philosophy and doesn't even mention the History. Myrvin (talk)

Articles on abortion

Perhaps you are not aware that there is a Wikipedia rule - I have simply taken Roscelese's word for its existence, without checking - that no editor is to make more than a single revert in any 24 hour period on articles concerning abortion. To avoid complaints by her that might get you blocked for a while, it would be well to keep that in mind.

I make no judgement on whether you have inadvertently violated that rule. A judgement would require finding the rule and seeing how it defines "revert". Esoglou (talk) 19:29, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

I try to avoid edit wars and follow 1RR particularly with established editors. Not sure how formal the rule is.

In the case you mentioned, I thought I had rm something we had agreed upon. Only we hadn't.

Thanks for your edits, BTW. Student7 (talk) 20:21, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

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Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 03:32, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

ROTC

ROTC is the Reserve Officers' Training Corps. It is literally the "Training Corps of Reserve Officers"--hence the plural possessive. Many times you will see regulations use it as Reserve Officer Training Corps or even as Reserve Officers Training Corps, but federal law and DoD regulations clearly identify its official name. I cited several sources, to include Army regs, DoD regs, and federal law. Todd Gallagher (talk) 16:10, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Sex and gender

Regarding this edit, I think gender is actually the correct term. I found this page helpful in distinguishing between the two. ~Adjwilley (talk) 01:36, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

WHOever wrote this must have English as his/her only language or some other language that is usually genderless in construction. Student7 (talk) 15:10, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

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Objection

I strongly object to you telling another editor [4] that I had reverted your and his/her edit because you "strongly suspect that the editor deleting the material was a) annoyed at me personally, and b) has never read Hume." Myrvin (talk) 21:31, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

August 2013 WikiProject Christianity Newsletter

ICHTHUS

August 2013

From the Editor

Welcome to the August 2013 issue of the WikiProject Christianity newsletter. We focus on the historical Jesus and reflect on the last month.

The project has another featured picture, The ruins of Holyrood Chapel, a digitisation of an oil-on-canvas painting. Our top-importance article, Jesus, has been nominated for Featured Article status, the discussion can be seen here; Knights of Colombus has also been nominated as a FAC.

Ecgbert (bishop) and Church architecture in Scotland have both this month achieved Good Article status.

Our project had several of its articles featured in the main page DYK section, including Hinckley Priory, Little Chapel, St Peter's Church, Ropsley, Chip Ingram, St John the Evangelist's Church, Corby Glen, Great George Street Congregational Church, St Mary's Church, Walton-on-the-Hill and Bunge church.

Our thanks go to all of those who have worked to achieve these article milestones.

Church of the month

This image, of Maillezais Cathedral and created by Selbymay was this month promoted to featured picture status.

Membership report
We would like to welcome our newest members, Thechristophermorris, Psmidi and Jchthys. Thank you all for your interest in this effort. If any members, new or not, wish any assistance, they should feel free to leave a message at the Christianity noticeboard or with me or other individual editors to request it.

Focus on...

THE
HISTORICAL JESUS

What was Jesus like? What did he preach? Did he claim to be the Messiah? Did he predict an apocalypse? What can we know about him outside a religious context? The Historical Jesus article discusses what can be known about Jesus with various degrees of probability. While scholars agree on the over all flow and outline of Jesus' life (his baptism by John, debated Jewish authorities, healings, and his crucifixion by Pilate) they have built various and diverging portraits of the rest of his life. These range from minimalist portraits that accept very little of the gospel accounts to maximalists who accept most of the accounts as historical.

The portraits of Jesus have at times been unwitting reflections of the researchers themselves, and Crossan once quipped that some authors "do autobiography and call it biography". However, the study of historical Jesus has made one thing clear: there is so much to learn about Jesus that the more one looks, the more there is to discover.

From the bookshelf

Jesus of Nazareth: An Independent Historian's Account of His Life and Teaching by Maurice Casey 2010 ISBN 0-567-64517-7

In this book Maurice Casey not only draws on his special expertise in the Aramaic traditions and the Q source, but provides a comprehensive review of the various approaches to the historical Jesus.

Did you know...

Christian Demographics

• ... that in 1951 Christianity was the second largest religion in the world with 500 million followers, compared to 520 million Buddhists, but by 2013 it had gained the top spot with about 2.2 billion Christians?

Calendar
This month we celebrate the feasts of St Lawrence, St Bernard, and St Augustine.

---

Help requests
Please let us know if there are any particular areas, either individual articles or topics, which you believe would benefit from outside help from other editors. We will try to include such requests in future issues.

Ichthus is published by WikiProject Christianity.
For submissions contact the Newsroom • To unsubscribe remove yourself from the list here

EdwardsBot (talk)22:31, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

--Gilderien Chat|What I've done 22:31, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Konya

Please see Talk:Konya#Demonstration_by_women. --Macrakis (talk) 23:47, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Help with St. Thomas

Can you help with fixing the biased contents of Thomas_the_Apostle page? This article still maintain that St. Thomas was killed in Mylapore, Chennai, South India while all evidence from Christian sources itself points to Iran / Indo-Parthian kingdom, currently in Pakistan as the place of his martyrdom, having executed by Zoroastrian king Mazdai. The article also refuses to accomodate St.Thomas traditions which state that he got martyred in South America having visited it. User:Jijithnr 09:02, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi. notice that you are a regular editor on the page. Have include my suggestion for improvement here. [[5]] Do review and advice. Prodigyhk (talk) 21:40, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

WHNV

This isn't a big deal for me, but why would you feel that the false construct that a NJ based registered supposed Vermont radio station that had a transmitter possibly in Vermont would be deserving of mention on a par with Presidents, etc. Just askin'.  ;)

BTW, where exactly was that transmitter? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vttor (talk • contribs) 04:44, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

I agree that if it was never in Vermont, it shouldn't be there to start with and certainly shouldn't be there now, as "history."

I don't know why it occurred to me to use "List of Presidents" as an example. I agree that was overly extreme to try to make a point.

My point was (and is), that this is the only place where the histories of these various stations can be retained, other than the article. I am not wild about the list to start with, but once we have it, information shouldn't disappear because the station is no longer soliciting ads from anyone. In other words, if we're allowing WP:SPAM-ish lists, they are going to have to take the bad with the good. They can't just be there when things are going wonderfully well, then disappear when they inconveniently fail. That just seems too obviously commercial IMO. Student7 (talk) 16:26, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Battle of Magdala sections

Take a look at the MOS page you keep citing:

If multiple sections are wanted, then some possibilities include:

• for a list of explanatory footnotes and/or shortened citation footnotes: "Notes", "Endnotes", or "Footnotes"
• for a list of full citations and/or general references: "References" or "Works cited"''

That's what's going on here. The section in question is not an external links section, to websites where you can read more. It is also not a further reading section, since the sources are cited in the inline footnotes. They are or may be cited more than once, which is why they are cited briefly in the footnotes (e.g., "Brereton and Savoury, p. 191"), and then in full the works cited section.

There's no mention of an "external references" header title; you must be confusing "external links" and "references", which are entirely different. "External references" is nonsense as far as I'm concerned. —innotata 02:16, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Well, can I change it back? I'd like a response if you don't want me to. —innotata 15:34, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

It seems clear. Student7 (talk) 21:54, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Government of New Jersey

Thanks for some of the edits you did on Government of New Jersey. I hope you don't mind, but I did restore the three links you removed from the See also section and added a couple more. Someone might find it useful, and I believe in redundancy...so if they're linked here and at history as you suggested, hopefully someone's interest is sparked by it. Can't hurt, right? I had spent some time bringing List of colonial governors of New Jersey to FL a few months ago and was working on Lieutenant Governor of New Jersey right now (a GA nominee at present)...that's how I came upon GoNJ when it was in need of improvement and expansion--something to do in my boredom when not writing about wine, Rutgers, northwestern New Jersey history, or poetry. Thanks again. --ColonelHenry (talk) 12:16, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

• FYI: WP:BURDEN only applies to situations where an unsourced statement is reinserted into an article...that contentious information in an article that isn't supported by a reliable source can be removed and the burden is on the person who reinserts it to provide a reliable source per WP:RS. WP:BRD, which I pointed you to in my edit summary, is when someone reverts an edit and invites the person to discuss it on the talk page to reach consensus. Since you say it doesn't belong in the see also, and I do think it belongs, and considering the lack of interest from other parties (i.e. other commenters), there is no consensus at this time. I've invited you to discuss it, you haven't...instead you seem to prefer an edit war to discussing and obtaining a consensus. If you'd like, I'll bring your desire to edit war over two harmless See also links to the attention of administrator for their resolution of the matter. The links are relevant to historical information in the article and discussion of how offices evolved into their current form--links that are placed also on other relevant NJ political or historical articles. --ColonelHenry (talk) 17:50, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Tends to clutter the article. We're trying to avoid clutter which tends to creep in usually in the "External links" section, but "See alsos" have become a distraction sometimes as well.

In fact, the similarity here is size. The "External links" are all "provably" external pointers to printed or web links. The problem/question is how many are too many? Usually ten. I realize that we haven't come anywhere close with NJ Government, but why shouldn't there be articles with a germane list that is fewer than ten? Student7 (talk) 17:55, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

There's a difference between clutter of 20 See also links some of which are not even remotely connected to the article's topic and 5 or 6 links like we have at Government of New Jersey that are entirely relevant (germane) to NJ political and governmental history and institutions. Seriously, that argument doesn't sell. In this specific article, it is rather ludicrous of you to be fighting a monster that doesn't even exist. --ColonelHenry (talk) 18:40, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

September 2013

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Criticism of marriage - neutrality

I have seen that you have reverted several changes, stating in your summary that WP must present the subject of violence against women, legal inequality between husband & wife, marital rape, dowry violence etc from a neutral POV. But these are considered violations of human rights by the UN, and crimes under international law. Domestic violence, including marital rape, is listed as a human rights violation by international conventions.

The 1993 UN Declaration on the Elimination of Violence against Women lists domestic violence against women as a human rights violation, and defines it as:[6]

"Physical, sexual and psychological violence occurring in the family, including battering, sexual abuse of female children in the household, dowry-related violence, marital rape, female genital mutilation and other traditional practices harmful to women, non- spousal violence and violence related to exploitation".

Other articles, such as Rape, Murder, Child sexual abuse etc, are not presented in a neutral way, because these acts are officially considered human rights abuses by international organizations.

Please discuss this on the talk page of Criticism of marriage.2A02:2F0A:504F:FFFF:0:0:BC19:ABE6 (talk) 00:13, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for October 5

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October 2013

Welcome to Wikipedia. I notice that you added some content to Genocides in history that appears to be a minority or fringe viewpoint. Unfortunately, this edit appears to give undue weight to this minority viewpoint, and has been reverted. To maintain a neutral point of view, an idea that is not broadly supported by scholarship in its field must not be given undue weight in an article about a mainstream idea. Feel free to use the article's talk page to discuss this, and take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. This has been discussed on the talk page, which you participated in. Do not re-insert the material. GregJackP Boomer! 23:44, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

(Editor with the support of one other editor, attempting to intimidate me and a colleague from reentering WP:RS material, which is hardly WP:FRINGE. It was written by Guenter Lewy, q.v. Student7 (talk) 16:31, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Please stop. Articles on Wikipedia do not give fringe material equal weight to majority viewpoints; content in articles are given representation in proportion to their prominence. If you continue in this manner, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Again, consensus is that Lewy is fringe. Please stop adding his information to the article. GregJackP Boomer! 00:25, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Actually, it's two votes to two at this point. Not a consensus at all. The IP was Bullied away. But there's people out there who aren't as easily intimidated. Student7 (talk) 21:49, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Kauffner Checkuser

I know you dont know me, never met me, never said a word to me, but could you please have a look at this: [7]. I feel like I am being sent through the ringer here based on the slimmest of evidence. WeldNeck (talk) 16:14, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Sorry. Know little about detecting IP similarities. You might register and always sign on. That might help. Student7 (talk) 21:51, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Notification

WP:ARBEE due to your slowmo edit warring and use of genocide denier material. Darkness Shines (talk) 17:56, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Never watched this page. Notice from a person whom I accused of WP:Wikibullying. Makes sense. Q.E.D.. Student7 (talk) 20:01, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

I removed your comments from the ARBEE notification section, it is not for threaded discussion, if you believe I ought not to have let you known of the discretionary sanctions take it to AN. Darkness Shines (talk) 20:55, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Looks to me like you're in the right, but I expect I'm too much involved to take any admin actions. I'm sorry I can't help more. Nyttend (talk) 22:08, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Seriously? Your templating me now? Please do not do that again, and do not call me a vandal either, cheers. Now the arbitration committee has authorised any editor to warn any other editor of discretionary sanctions, it is in fact currently under discussion, see here Darkness Shines (talk) 14:10, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. You appear to be engaged in an edit war with one or more editors according to your reverts at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Eastern Europe. Although repeatedly reverting or undoing another editor's contributions may seem necessary to protect your preferred version of a page, on Wikipedia this is usually seen as obstructing the normal editing process, and often creates animosity between editors. Instead of edit warring, please try to reach a consensus on the talk page.

If editors continue to revert to their preferred version they are likely to be blocked from editing. This isn't done to punish an editor, but to prevent the disruption caused by edit warring. In particular, editors should be aware of the three-revert rule, which says that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. While edit warring on Wikipedia is not acceptable in any amount, breaking the three-revert rule is very likely to lead to a block. Thank you. SMS ^Talk 14:33, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

• (ec)Do you not read the messages here? ARBCOM has authorised any editor to issue these warnings, and stop calling me a vandal. You are now on 2RR on an arbitration case page, please stop. Darkness Shines (talk) 14:35, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Warring at WP:ARBEE

Hello Student7. You are now at 3RR on this log file. I recommend that you stop. Any further revert may lead to a block. If you have concerns about other editors' posting warnings there and want to have admins review the matter, you can file a complaint at WP:Arbitration enforcement. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 18:59, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

You are right. I am wrong. Thanks for the warning. I forgot the WP:1RR rule. Student7 (talk) 15:09, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Banned?

I was labeled on Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/Eastern Europe as a "known genocide denier," and therefore warned not to edit Eastern Europe or I will be added to the "interested parties" list. I need help here. I would like my name removed from the list.

The label is untrue. The Holocaust was genocide.

I don't watch the article "Eastern Europe" and have no real interest in doing so. If I've edited it, it was so long ago, I've forgotten.

Can people just be "pre-added" like that? Can people just be labeled by one person on Wikipedia?

The party adding me seems to have no "standing" in this arbitration, as far as I can figure out. Can a person be "added to" an arbitration list without his consent, having never edited an article before?

He appears to have done this as retribution for my reporting him for bullying at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Intimidation_of_newbie_88.104.219.76.

What can I do, if anything?

Thanks.Student7 (talk) 16:50, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure what this is about, but I'll take a look, and get back to you. SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 18:06, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

I took a look. You have been warned for edit warring in a section related to Armenia on Genocides_in_history, and as Armenia comes under Discretionary sanctions, where editors may be topic banned or blocked for edit warring, a warning is felt to be both helpful and appropriate. People who are warned are listed, so that if they continue edit warring they may be blocked without further warning. Edit warring is bad everywhere on Wikipedia - it is particularly bad in some topic areas which have a history of heated and inappropriate behaviour. My suggestion is that you either make a case for the edit you wish to make, and if consensus is against you, accept it and move on. Or move on now, as it appears that consensus may already be against you. SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 07:29, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

(Well it was worth a shot  :) [8].

Actually, the admin sees the worst of the issues. I generally don't encounter this sort of thing of all. When I do, I try to intervene to stop it.

This was not an edit war on my part. I never edit war on purpose, though I realize now that entering a cite with only the web page (lazily) turned out to be a WP:RS by a notable professor, which the editors had just voted to ban. It was not deliberate on my part, nor could I understand (nor did they bother to explain) that my cite (website) was written by this guy.

This has felt pretty much like a holdup. The other guy had the guns. I don't even carry one! Student7 (talk) 18:53, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Talk: Loyola University New Orleans

Hello:

My name is Joshua. I noticed that you deleted the list of notable alumni (the sentence started like this: Other notable alumni include ...) and a few other things. Did you just delete it because as a read in your comments: "list do not go here but in list of loyola ... people?" If so, I do not understand why, because I visited many Wiki college sites (i.e. Harvard), and these sites have a list just like I did.

Thank you.

Jrenel250 (talk) 10:34, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Right. Thanks for contacting me.

New notables would go into the article List of Loyola University New Orleans people. All major universities and places have forked their notables, including Harvard: List of Harvard University people. It would just take up too much space and be too distracting for the article which is about the school. not people. So the only ones remaining in the main article would be a President of the US, Superior General of the Jesuits, Pope (!), something of that order. But 99.5% of the rest should be forked to that article. Student7 (talk) 14:31, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Crusades

G'day 7. Could you have a quick look at Crusades (which I know is on your Watchlist) which has been the subject of some strange edit-warring/vandalism. A new (and fairly aggressive) editors is trying to insert blatant and unsourced POV about Muslim invasions and opression into the lede. I'm at 2RR trying to stop it and she just posted a strange not to my userpage after previously calling my "Christianophobic" (you know the areas I edit so you know how silly that is). Your help would be appreciated. Cheers, Stalwart111 02:57, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

I think your observations have been supported by another editor. If not (as you say), I do watch the article, but deliberately lag by up to several days, hoping (like here!), that someone else will do what is right.

What is sometimes funnier is that, lagging like I do, I come upon on a lengthy discussion that has long since (by Wikipedia standards) been concluded and I am trying to play catch up, wondering whether to contribute (and start the fuss all over again/be declared a "troll") or what! So the delay isn't 100% positive, but it's "close enough!" :) Student7 (talk) 19:46, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

November 2013

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Please clean up references section

Thanks. --Frze ^{> talk} 17:05, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

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Actually, I noticed this before I linked it. There are half-dozen Springfield Townships in Ohio! Someone Else will have to figure that one out! Student7 (talk) 17:54, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Understood. Will cite. Thank you for your input. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.14.159.6 (talk) 19:50, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

WP:ERA

Don't know if you saw my reply, but it doesn't say anything about the original state, it uses the word established which is very different. Dougweller (talk) 18:48, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

I'll see if I can remember. As you say, judging "established" can cause arguments. I was hoping to avoid that. I've been meticulously labeling "Brit" (and other non-US dialects, AND American) wherever I can. Just to avoid edit changes over mistaken "spelling errors." Too bad it doesn't work here. Student7 (talk) 21:00, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

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