User talk:Netherzone/Archive 9

Ana Mesquita (artist)

Dear Netherzone, thank you for your feedback on the page of Ana Mesquita (artist) - I believe I understood your views on the quality of the page although I disagree with some of the harsher comments - Portugal is a small country and the artistic scene has been enriched by many women artists that pursue less traditional forms of visual arts and privilege collaboration with other artists in multimedia formats - and Ana Mesquita is one of them.

I fear that my lack of experience in writing for Wikipedia while following best-practices may have colored the approach to this page - but wish to press on and write this page better and move on to write other pages - I live in Portugal and in Norway and am interested in furthering the visibility of artists and scientists of both countries in an environment that is, often, rather English-centric both in culture and in language.

English is presently both the "official language of internet" and the official language of several countries (USA and UK, etc.) which tends to create a slightly negative bias on the perception of cultural relevance of non-English artists and scientists. It is a problem that I hope to mitigate in my humble way, article by article.

Thanks again

Port norw (talk) 00:16, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Netherzone, I was traveling between Portugal and Norway but now have found that the page has changed status.

Is there any way I can go into it and change it back so I can edit it?

Thank you for your time!

Vasco Port norw (talk) 15:29, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

2024

Die Zeit, die Tag und Jahre macht

Happy New Year

2024

Same location pictured as 2019. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:59, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

The 2023 picture is from the Abel Fest in Köthen, celebrating the tercentenary of Carl Friedrich Abel, a viol virtuoso, composer and concert organiser in London (together with Bach's youngest son), born on 22 December 1723 in Köthen, where the new catalogue of his works was introduced, - my story today. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:56, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for support! - I have a DYK on the Main page, but my story would be different, about Figaro, - this Figaro. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:53, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Of course! It's a shame you had to endure that nonsense. Thanks for the link to "this Figaro" - WOW! Netherzone (talk) 17:18, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for liking what I saw and wanted to tell! - I have endured the attitude that looks like censoring to me - keeping facts about opera away from the Main page, arguing that opera singers only do there job - for years, and see some light, that it may change, thanks to comments like yours. You can comment in the DYK nom for Anna Nekhames (they are always on the talk page, and also on my user page.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:29, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Gerda, I just sent you an email. Netherzone (talk) 18:38, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. - On the Main page: the person who made the pictured festival possible --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:57, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

story · music · places

Thank you for improving articles in January! I remember Ewa Podleś on the Main page, and had - believe it or not - two musical DYK today. Shalom chaverim. On vacation, yes, that island again, with something for your sweet tooth --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:00, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Today: the performance of Anna Nekhames, the article in which a reviewer found nothing interesting. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:59, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

The reviewer found nothing interesting? Speaking as a fellow editor, who knows nothing about opera other than what I've learned from you (and the few performances I've seen) the original hook that began with this: that coloratura soprano Anna Nekhames performed first in the Bolshoi Theatre's children's chorus immediately drew me in. Why? Precisely because I was unfamiliar with the term, coloratura soprano. As a inquisitive person I wanted to learn more. Secondly because I had no idea that the Bolshoi Theatre had a children's chorus. A hook not only draws in those who are familiar, but more importantly (at least to my way of thinking) draws in readers who are NOT familiar with a subject. The value in this IMO is that it shares knowledge, which is a fundamental goal of the encyclopedia. One reviewer's personal opinion of what constitutes "interestingness" should not have such influence over what appears on the main page. I'm so sorry that your valuable and well-crafted contributions have been undergoing such subjective scrutiny. Keep on doing what you are doing, Gerda. You are amazing, and appreciated! Netherzone (talk) 23:40, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, feel understood! Same thing for Tamara Milashkina. - Taking tons of pictures, 23 chosen for 23 Jan, 6 uploaded, too tired for more - on my talk you see that it's the birthday of Mozart and our conductor ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 00:04, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

This photo is beautiful - like a wild haired firework creature the color of the sun. Netherzone (talk) 00:31, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Nature speaks so well to you! - Today a friend's birthday, with related music and a few new vacation pics --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:10, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

OMG Gerda! This! Looks! So! Good! Yes nature speaks to me, but so does food. :)

Platter of grilled seafood, Charco Azul, La Palma

Netherzone (talk) 22:32, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shayea

Hi @Netherzone: Sorry, I meant to get back to you. I was going to leave a comment, and had some stuff prepared but never got around to it as I was stuck in WP:NPP. Next time I'll be more observant. scope_creep^Talk 16:17, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Hey there @Scope creep, no worries at all. I considered your comment very seriously because I think you have excellent judgement. The AfD turned out well, and I learned some things about rap music in Iran. See you around! Netherzone (talk) 16:21, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Chiara Fumai

Dear Netherzone, I have created an article Chiara Fumai that has been reviewed , but it is still not indexed by search engines. Could you please help me understand what happened? Hermann Heilner Giebenrath (talk) 22:00, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

I've exported the short description to WikiData. Keep an eye on the search engines in the next few days to see if it shows up. If not, perhaps you should reach out to the WP:TEAHOUSE or to the WP:HELPDESK. Netherzone (talk) 22:10, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

By the way, Hermann Heilner Giebenrath thanks for creating the article; she was a great artist. Netherzone (talk) 22:27, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! It worked right away. Yes, she was a brilliant artist--Hermann Heilner Giebenrath (talk) 22:35, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Your discrimination against me

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Fjnovoa (talk) 02:57, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Fjnovoa indefinitely blocked per discussion outcome. Netherzone (talk) 04:14, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Seldon_Charles_Forrester_Farmer

Hi Thank you for your suggestions to improve this article and make it more reflective of the Wikipedia style of presentation. I believe I have done this now and hope it is now sufficiently robust to warrant publication. Many thanks for your assistance. Zaccwm (talk) 16:29, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

@Zaccwm, thank you for your message. I will have a look at it when I find a moment. Could you please use the draft talk page for communications regarding the draft rather than my user talk page? That way, the conversation will be seen by other reviewers and editors who have seen the draft. Thanks! Netherzone (talk) 16:38, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Will do apologies, the protocols for wikis seem more challenging than expected. Zaccwm (talk) 19:12, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Purdy Notability

Hi @Netherzone, I hope this finds you well. Just a question, wouldn't Graeme Purdy be notable by Wikipedia:Notability (people) part 1., by their silver Sony World Photography Award? Thank you, ArtDataArt (talk) 16:33, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

@ArtDataArt, thank you for your message. I'll look into it when I find a moment - today is a busy one for me. Please use the article talk page for communications on how to improve the article, rather than my user talk page. This will allow for more eyes and discussion input. I will look into the Sony Photo awards, but I doubt that is enough (esp. since it's a 2nd place award). Normally for artists the kind of notable awards that count are things like the Guggenheim Fellowship, National Endowment for the Arts awards, the Turner Prize, a MacArthur grant, Pollock-Krasner Foundation grant, the Joan Miro prize, Royal Photographic Society, and the like. Hope that helps! Netherzone (talk) 16:54, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Art & Language

Hello, Netherzone,

I was familiar with User:L'Origine du monde from about 2015 and decided to spend some time today figuring out what they did to receive an indefinite block and it seems a lot of it had to do with their conduct on this article and its talk page. I was wondering since you spend some time in 2023 cleaning up the article whether the tag about having a "closely connected" editor can be removed. If you were referring to L'Origine du monde, they are blocked now and won't be editing it any longer and I assume you removed the inappropriate content. I'm not proxying for L'Origine du monde, I haven't had content with them since their first indefinite block years ago. But since I was reviewing the article as part of my search for information, I was wondering if you believed the tag was still appropriate. If "yes", then so be it but since you are more familiar with the page than I am, I thought you were the best person to ask. Many thanks! Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:06, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Hi Liz, thank you for reaching out about the A&L article. It has been a while, and I can't remember if did a final check of the article but will do so today. That interchange in 2023 with L'OdM was challenging, and I would never think you would be proxying. Thanks for the heads up - I will let you know about the maintenance tag here or on the article talk page once I do a read thru this morning. Netherzone (talk) 13:50, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Liz, I did a final pass, and cleaned up a bit of material that gave undue weight to an occasional member of the collective. The editor who added it, Aradicus77 was blocked for promo/advertising. It looks fine now - COI template has been removed. Thanks again for your reminder, I appreciate it. Netherzone (talk) 14:27, 18 February 2024 (UTC) Courtesy ping Liz Netherzone (talk) 14:20, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

February music

story · music · places

My calendar story today is about Michael Herrmann celebrating his birthday. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:19, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! I love the idea of bringing concerts into vinyards! Netherzone (talk) 23:24, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

Me too! The New York Philharmonic, however, wanted a decent hall ;) - Today I am happy about a singer on the Main page (at least for the first hours), after TFA the same day last year. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:35, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

She is still up on the Main Page in my part of the world! Netherzone (talk) 16:11, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

She? Stephen? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:49, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

I clicked on the Main Page link in your message rather than singer link, and saw Angel Aquino. My mistake, reading my talk page too quickly. Netherzone (talk) 17:02, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

relief ;) - Pseud 14 is much more prolific than I am when it comes to TFAs. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:54, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks to Seiji Ozawa. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:04, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

... and today a woman and her views --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:08, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

So great to know about her work, Gerda, I'm always happy to learn about women artists I was previously unfamiliar with. Nice article! Netherzone (talk) 22:12, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Tell Charles01 who wrote it, - I just fixed things for the Main page. Did you click on "look"? A few images telling more than thousand words. The few new pics are of the most stunning coastline of La Palma, only I had some camera setting wrong, - I borrowed them from a friend. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:21, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

The image, taken on a cemetery last year after the funeral of a distant but dear family member, commemorates today, with thanks for their achievements, four subjects mentioned on the Main page and Vami_IV, a friend here. Listen to music by Tchaikovsky (an article where one of the four is pictured), sung by today's subject (whose performance on stage I enjoyed two days ago). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:33, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

I was sad to hear about @Vami IV. I did not know them well, but remember them from Women in Red, and seeing them around in general. We both worked on Saline Valley salt tram which was one of @Possibly's short articles that was later featured on the main page. Vami IV did a lot of good work for the encyclopedia, and will be missed by many in the community. I'm sorry for your loss, Gerda. Netherzone (talk) 16:52, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your part of the memory! Perhaps better place it on his talk, for his sister and others to see? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:04, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for that! - Listen to music from Ukraine if you like, - I heard it in 2022, and the November concert (at a different church) raised a truckload of winter clothes. My story today is also from my life: I heard the singer in 3 of the 4 mentioned musical items. I sang in yesterday's. - Rinaldo (opera) premiered OTD, DYK? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:58, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Today's story celebrates a woman's birthday. She sat right in front of me when I took the picture at a lovely concert, celebrating her son's 60th. I thought she was 90 today, - no, 91 already. You can listen, starting at the piece he dedicated to her, Op. 1. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:33, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

more music and flowers on Rossini's rare birthday --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:32, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

englisch version of ROLF LAVEN

Good day!

I want to ask which improvements the rejected English draft ROLF LAVEN require to get published? His German-wikipedia is confirmed: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolf_Laven

An English-wikipedia is urgent, since Rolf Laven was nominated for an international prize in the USA.

Thank you in advance! Abendtau (talk) 08:54, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Hello, and thank you for you for reaching out. I'm sorry to have to tell you that it is not acceptable at this time, and I don't think it would survive deletion, but here's some thoughts on improvements. I noticed the German language version was already deleted once, but then recreated and heavily edited by the artist themself. The English draft relies on his education and memberships, and contains a lot of name-dropping of famous people, none of which contributes to notability. At this time, it doesn't yet meet the criteria for a notable artist nor academic WP:NPROF (no citations of his work on Google Scholar nor Scopus), and based on the sourcing does not meet the general notability guidelines as all the sources are primary (or a name-check) except one, which is more about a program for school children than about his own work. EN-WP needs independent sources (not connected to the person) that provide in-depth significant coverage, published in reliable sources. Also if his work is held in the permanent collections of notable museums or national galleries, that would help.

Please know that there is no need for "urgency" - at all. It's better to wait until there are enough good sources available than a "race to the finish line" to get an article published. The draft won't expire for six months, (which can be extended). See if there are other sources available that others have written about him, or wait until those become available in reliable sources before resubmitting. Sorry if this is disappointing news, but hope it has been helpful. Netherzone (talk) 16:19, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Trouted

Whack! You've been whacked with a wet trout. Don't take this too seriously. Someone just wants to let you know that you did something silly.

For posting two separate unsigned comments in a single AfD I had to clean up after. Left guide (talk) 01:54, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Ha! and thanks, I've always wanted one of those. I fluctuate between using reply-link and direct editing on AfD's and forget that I still need to sign if I'm not using reply-link. Thanx for the reminder. Netherzone (talk) 02:00, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Edit summary queries

Hi! In this edit summary[1] you say "Take it to the talk page to discuss with other editors before making this change again." and I wonder what the reason for reverting is because none is actually given in the summary. I'm not seeing the policy or guideline based argument for reverting, please explain. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 15:44, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Hello and thanks for reaching out, Horse Eye. I see you have reverted my edits. My edits restored the article to a stable version, but it seems you disagree. I won't be reverting your revert, and will be archiving this discussion shortly. Thanks for keeping a keen eye on things, Netherzone (talk) 16:00, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

So what was the reason for reverting? You still haven't said. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:09, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

I plan on doing more at Blanche Grant

especially when I discovered that I had a book she wrote in my library but have been hampered by not being able to sign on to wikipedia on my computer and being in the middle of an taxing medical situation. However at some point I hope to add a few more references. carptrash aka 2600:8800:590F:8600:D8BB:215:7B50:975F (talk) 05:34, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Carptrash, I'm so sorry to hear you are in the midst of a medical situation. I hope it resolves soon. It was interesting to read your article on Blanche Grant, those dynamic, independent Northern New Mexico creative women were a force of nature! Let me know if there's anything I can help out with while you navigate your computer & health issues. You can post things here or on article talk if you would like me to help make improvements, or look anything up in the Wikipedia Library. All the best, Netherzone (talk) 13:13, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

@Carptrash, hope you are doing better with the medical situation. I wanted to let you know I did a little work on Blanche Grant today, nothing major. Added a pix of one of her paintings and a bit more content so readers can understand her style of representation; and cropped the image of her and friends at Howard Pyle's studio to remove the frame. It also did not seem to need an infobox for the group photo so I removed that formatting. If there's a specific reason why you wanted the infobox just let me know and I'll restore it. Be well, and hope you are able to sign on and see this. Netherzone (talk) 22:44, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Are you getting WP:NOTHERE vibes?

….from that one editor at the Techspressionism AfD; from a cursory skim of their contributions, it seems like they're only using the site to promote themselves and their art movement (and a few other COIs) in an undue non-neutral fashion (while also violating behavioral guidelines like WP:CANVASS and WP:AGF), and not here to build the encyclopedia, what do you think? Left guide (talk) 00:59, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

It's an odd situation. I've never seen AfD participation where someone keep refactoring their comments over and over like that, it's hard to keep track of what they are trying communicate from moment to moment as it keeps changing. They have been editing on WP since at least 2010 under another username(s). But the contributions of that account haven't gone back nearly that far. Their first AUTOBIO was deleted in 2010. Then recreated by UPE in 2015, now the newest is apparently MEAT. I can't quite figure out what is going on but it is clear after 14 years, they don't seem to understand the purpose of an encyclopedia. Netherzone (talk) 01:28, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

Honestly, the refactoring is somewhat annoying, but not as big as the other issues. Should the matter be raised to a noticeboard? It seems like you've already tried discussing with the user at their talk page, during which you said you think this needs admin eyes, and I don't see signs of real behavioral progress since then. cc @WomenArtistUpdates and Star Mississippi: Left guide (talk) 01:54, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping Left guide and NZ. While I am getting the WP:NOTHERE vibes loud and clear, maybe we should see what happens over the weekend. It appears that something has finally gotten through, as the editor is now trying to erase the traces of COI on their user page, and off wiki accounts. I have no objections to admin eyes, but I worry that I have lost objectivity on the matter. Best, --WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 17:21, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

• poking in*

Sorry, I was offline for a few days and am still not fully back. Short of semi'ing the AfD, I don't see an option. Things seem to have quieted down though. I appreciated that those canvassed were trying to make a case, even if the genre isn't notable, but it was disruptive. I didn't see the refactoring, but will try to keep an eye out when back if discussion isn't closed. Thanks for flag and sorry for leaving you hanging on my Talk @Left guide Star Mississippi 02:47, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

@Star Mississippi: It's all good, no need to apologize, you're too kind. Left guide (talk) 03:28, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Message on talk page

Hello @Netherzone, I received a notification that you had left me a message on my talk page this afternoon, but I do not see any new messages there. I am reaching out to see if you left me a message there, and I am missing it. Thank you for your guidance, and I apologize for the refactoring. Scribe1791 (talk) 01:23, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Apology

I wanted to apologize for my contributions to the Geoglyphs article. I thought it was a good idea because of their importance to the plot of Tears of the Kingdom, but I did not consider that the main focus of the article was archaeology and earth art, not their use in fiction. 73.79.229.7 (talk) 13:38, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

No worries whatsoever, and no need for an apology! Feel free to add relevant content to the video game article to improve it. But please make sure to add the sources. Happy editing! Netherzone (talk) 13:46, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

No problem. 73.79.229.7 (talk) 14:11, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Dealing with New Editors

Regarding User_talk:Jon_Rosebank#Wiki-etiquette (permalink), I liked what you said. I was sorry to hear that my advice Jon Rosebank scared him off:

All this, I'm afraid, underlines my growing impression that wikipedia lacks the necessary signposts, the clarity of guidelines, the essential transparency and sufficient safeguards to be a safe place for me to work. David Tornheim helpfully reassured me that the trolling I faced was not unusual. While that is comforting, it is also a warning.

I certainly did not want to scare them off. I wonder if there was another more diplomatic way to both make the editor feel safe -and- warn him/her about the concerns described in WP:BAIT.
I have seen far too many new editors come here mistakenly believing they can make a fix to an article to correct something that to them seems blatantly obvious it should be permissible to do, and then they don't understand the push back to their change and the seemingly bizarre policy reasons given. They can down in flames because they truly believe that the change they want to make is most definitely right, and they have no idea how their edits of complaint against an experienced user--one who strongly disagrees--might be used against them at WP:AN/I to unfair advantage as described in WP:BAIT. It seemed to me that things were headed that way, so ARoseWolf and I both tried to encourage -and- warn the new editor. I am curious how you (and anyone else listening here) might have handled it differently when we first encountered the dispute. This seems like a good case in point for the challenges of keeping new editors. --David Tornheim (talk) 02:39, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Such a shame to lose Jon. I am not sure what we could have done further. We were trying to support them as a new user that faced, what I feel, the worst possible situation a new user could face, not completely the other user's fault, but also try to offer constructive instruction to keep them from facing those issues again. I wasn't focused on the multiple user's on the same IP as much as talking about not having more than one user on the named account they were using and also address editing while logged out. I think Netherzone also touched on that in their response. Either way this was a decision Jon made and we just move on. David I think you did a wonderful thing explaining the situation as you did and offering support for them. Don't be too hard on yourself that Jon chose not to stick around. Thank you, Netherzone, for your statement on Jon's talk page. --ARoseWolf 12:10, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Please don’t be too hard on yourselves, @David Tornheim and @ARoseWolf. You both are amazing and kind. Everyone came to the discussion in their own way using different communication styles. The same way that all of us have different modes and styles for learning and building knowledge. Both Jon and ThaddeusSholto (who has since disappeared) had reasons for their positions.

As a brand new editor, Jon doesn’t know the ropes here, and what are the “hot buttons” or words to avoid. It’s the image that is racist and pornographic, not the editor, something that you both understood and recognized and tried to communicate – focus on content not contributors. But we all know that can be hard to do when we are upset, and both editors were upset for different reasons.

If you two had not stepped in when you did to quell the slow-moving edit war things would have escalated. WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS and WP:NOTCENSORED can be hard to understand as a new editor. I think the “encouragements-and-warnings” were fine.

The underlying problem is that Wikipedia does not have a cohesive, integrative “Instruction Manual” or “Operating Manual.” WP’s policies, guidelines (behavioral and content), essays, MOS, and cryptic acronyms are scattered all over the place like little bits of paper or sticky notes.

My gut feeling is that Jon will be back, I certainly hope so, as it seems he has a lot to offer the project. I was impressed with the sources he brought to the talk page discussion. The photo hit a significant nerve with him, and understandably so. When I first saw it my impressions went from curiosity and puzzlement, to cringing, to deep sadness, to moral outrage, but tried to keep these emotions in check so as not to escalate matters. The vulnerability of the young girl in the image is painfully tragic in relation to the powers of empire building and cultural domination she was subjected to.

Speaking for myself, sometimes when I’m really upset all that is needed is someone to simply listen, not to tell me what to do or not do. Believe me, I can be stubborn when I think I’m right, but usually I just want to feel understood – not agreed with – but listened to and understood.

We were all beginners, and in a sense we still are, thankfully.

I'm really grateful to have colleagues like the two of you. Netherzone (talk) 16:42, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Let me add that I equally think its a shame that ThaddeusSholto has disappeared and truly hope it was not directly related to this issue. I wish them wholeness where ever they are. Thaddeus was not wrong to initially revert for the reasons they gave. That's all despite feeling the same emotions you did, Netherzone. Then I saw the exchange and I was more appalled by the exchange, not who was involved. In the end there were more reasons to remove the picture under policy than keep and consensus came the right conclusion.

"Speaking for myself, sometimes when I’m really upset all that is needed is someone to simply listen, not to tell me what to do or not do. Believe me, I can be stubborn when I think I’m right, but usually I just want to feel understood – not agreed with – but listened to and understood." You took a page from my book. lol This is me, 100%. In fact I will generally come around and even ask for advice knowing we disagree, I don't simply want others to agree with me. Having different viewpoints and the details of your journey to your conclusions, this happens even when we do agree, is what I want to absorb because I am still a beginner and I desire to learn. I am thankful for you both. You truly enrich my life. --ARoseWolf 17:01, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

• Speaking for myself, sometimes when I’m really upset all that is needed is someone to simply listen, not to tell me what to do or not do. Those words resonate with me too. Beautifully written. Thanks so much to both of you for your kind words.--David Tornheim (talk) 19:02, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

AI based Wikipedia comment responses

You brought up this in one of Greg responses. I'm running into similar suspicion here Talk:Canadian_AIDS_Society. One of the responses come as 100% AI on GPTZero, but comes up as human in ZeroZPT and other search engines. I ran it through a check, because the response just felt rather superficially wordy and hollow. Do you think one is more accurate or are they all questionable? Graywalls (talk) 20:24, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

I also came up with 100% AI on one of the messages I scanned with GPTZero on that link. Intuitively the long responses seem machine generated, but on the other hand, the editor could simply have that sort of communication style. I don't know which search tool/engine is best. You might want to ask at Wikipedia:WikiProject AI Cleanup? Netherzone (talk) 20:56, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

March flowers

story · music · places

in memory of the birthday of a friend who showed me art such as this, and of Vami --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:50, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

I was so very sad to hear about Vami, he was so young... Netherzone (talk) 14:09, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Yes. Rossini's Petite messe solennelle was premiered on 14 March 1864, - when I listen to the desolate Agnus Dei I think of Vami. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:49, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

I uploaded vacation pics (from back home), at least the first day, - and remember Aribert Reimann. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:04, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Roadside shrine in Santa Fe, NM, commemorating the life of Chris Abeyta, a local musician, poet and educator.

I love the photo of the cat with the red hydrant, also the spring (fountain) with the tiny shrine in a niche. I have a thing for roadside shrines, have many photos. Here's one I shot a couple years ago. Thank you for inspiring me! Netherzone (talk) 20:34, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! - I don't think the "Fontana" I saw is a spring - high up a wall next to a village road, - I rather believe it's a service to passers-by, - you can turn it on and off. - Next day uploaded, around Porto da Cruz, on Bach's birthday --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:23, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

a few new pics, and two people for DYK --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:32, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

I listen to Bach's St John Passion today, - 300 years after it was first performed. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:08, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Two days later in time, Bach music for Easter! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:40, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Thank you Gerda, and happy Easter to you. Loved looking at your most recent photos, esp. those of the Monte Palace Tropical Garden. Makes me want to go there! Ever onward.... Netherzone (talk) 00:19, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

April music

story · music · places

I like to see Appalachian Spring on the Main page today (not by me, just interested and reviewed), and I also made it my story. - I was undecided so show three versions ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:08, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Today I see Marian Anderson as my top story (by NBC, 1939), and below (on my talk) three people with raised arms, - and the place is the cherry blossom in Frauenstein. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:22, 9 April 2024 (UTC) Enjoy elsewhere! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:24, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Thinking of you! - plum tree blossom for Kalevi Kiviniemi in the snow - see my talk --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:00, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

today a sad task - memory of Andrew Davis - turned into entertainment (yt at the bottom of his article, actually both) -- the latest pictures capture extreme weather --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:39, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Sorry to hear this news, Gerda. He had a long life, and did great work that inspired many. Netherzone (talk) 21:46, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Agree. - Today you can look at the last three stories or "music" on my talk: the same topics, Youth Symphony Orchestra of Ukraine, Samuel Kummer and (pictured) one row of 8 double basses and another of 5 bassists ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:38, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

concerns

I believe I resolved your concerns and so removed the tag. If you disagree, please let me know and explain why. Thanks! JDtoBee (talk) 15:46, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

@JDtoBee, the article still reads promotionally, not in an encyclopedic tone. Encyclopedia articles should not be written in a way that boasts about a person's "greatness". Biographic rticles should simply cover, in summary style, the most important highlights of a per life. It very much seems like the article was created as an autobiography. I'm also wondering if you might have a connection to the subject of the article. It's difficult for connected editors to be totally neutral. Netherzone (talk) 16:05, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

I disagree with your assessment. The article reads the same way as other articles of distinguished professors that I see. For example, see Emmanuel Saez: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmanuel_Saez#:~:text=Emmanuel%20Saez%20(born%20November%2026,and%20rich%20around%20the%20world.

The article is written in the same fashion as that one, I believe. If you disagree, please provide some specific examples so I can fix. The only boasting about greatness that was in the article was in quotes not added by me and I removed them. Listing accomplishments from external sources is not the same as boasting and all articles on distinguished professors explain accomplishments.

I am a student in the field but am not directly connected. I am planning to work on other entries related to the field this is just the first one I began working on. I also did not create this entry I have just worked on revising it. I am perhaps defensive about the field, but mostly I am defensive about my work on this being attacked by you without you providing any specific explanations so that I can fix and improve. JDtoBee (talk) 16:19, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

@JDtoBee, No one is attacking you. Please continue your questions on the article talk page, where it belongs, not here. I will be replacing the maintenance tag until the issues are resolved. This thread will be archived shortly. Netherzone (talk) 18:11, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Doncram's drafts

Hello, Netherzone,

I hope you are well. I just postponed deleting a lot of drafts created by Doncram, as I always do when I come across them in my CSD G13 patrolling. I noticed that you had edited many of them, marking them as "promising drafts".

My question for you is do you know whether there are editors currently working on finishing up these unfinished drafts? I'm happy to postpone deleting them now but I'm thinking about in another six months, November 2024 or 2025. If there aren't editors spending time taking care of projects that were unfinished when he passed, I question indefinitely postponing their deletion. I considered posting this message on his User talk page but I don't know if many of his fellow editors have that page still Watchlisted and I thought directing my question to an individual was more likely to get a response. Or is there an active WikiProject which would be a suitable place to inquire? Thanks for any information or thoughts you can offer. Take care. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 20:38, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Liz, thank you for reaching out. I saw that you made a blank edit to Draft:David Back Log House and Farm earlier today to save it from deletion, so I started to make some improvements and added it to my To Do list in my sandbox. It's on the NRHP, and it's a notable site. I saw on my watchlist some other drafts marked as promising.

Not long after Doncram passed, there was a group of us working on improving his unfinished drafts and moving some of these to article space, including @Star Mississippi and others (see User talk:Doncram#User subpages to complete.

I guess I got a little gun shy about moving deceased editors drafts to article space after George Ho got upset about it, when I and others were saving DGG's drafts from deletion after he died. It seems George felt that I was trying to bypass the reviewers at AfC (I was not), I was simply trying to help out as I had done after Possibly died.

I have autopatrolled rights, so I thought it was OK. See [[2]] It's been years since I've used AfC. I've created over 200 articles and none of them have been deleted. There is a huge backlog at AfC and NPP.

Liz, in your opinion is it OK for me to improve Doncram's drafts based on reliable sources and move them directly to article space? I have a clear understanding of Wiki-notability criteria. Thanks, I look forward to hearing your thoughts. Netherzone (talk) 21:44, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

OK, Liz, I think this one is good to go. Draft:David Back Log House and Farm Any objections to my moving it to article space? Netherzone (talk) 23:11, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

This one is ready to go as well. Really an interesting historical road, enjoyed researching it. Draft:Grant Road (Los Alamos, New Mexico). Netherzone (talk) 17:11, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping. I just submitted one of Possibly's because I wasn't sure, but think there's a case for N:ARTIST. I saw a handful of Doncram's cross my watchlist when catching up. I took a stab at Draft:James Coolidge Octagon Cobblestone House, which still needs significant work, but I have no idea how to tackle something like Draft:Preserved locomotives in the United States\Travel Town ones to be merged (@Trainsandotherthings any suggestions?) NZ, I'll look at the ones you linked, but in general I think you're fine to proceed as you would any other draft. Star Mississippi 01:48, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

I left you a message on the cobblestone house draft's talk page. I could read the source, but there was only one sentence about it.

I'll move the two drafts this evening. Am now working on Draft:Rice, Arizona - I found a good source that has a lot of interesting historical facts about Rice. The town went thru a few name changes so at first I thought it should be redirected to San Carlos, Arizona however if I find another in-depth source I think it will pass notability. Netherzone (talk) 02:23, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Ha! You are quick on the keyboard! I saw that you just submitted the Grant Road and the David Back Log House drafts. Thanks! Netherzone (talk) 02:24, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I think we E/Ced on one of them.

Grant Road credit probably could have gone to you. I was on auto given them to Doncram. Thanks for the help on Cobblestone. That one is going to be a challenge but I think we can clean it up to a good little stub. Ping me if you need anything on Rice, happy to help. Star Mississippi 02:33, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

@Star Mississippi, I just resubmitted Draft:Rice, Arizona, it had been declined once. I made significant improvements and also found a lot of historical photos of Rice when it was an active settlement. I think it passes notability for a former settlement based on the current sourcing. When you find a moment, could you please have a look? Netherzone (talk) 16:51, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Someone got to it while I was offline, or I'd have accepted as well. Star Mississippi 12:51, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for thinking of me. I'm not a fan of giant locomotive lists and don't think they are encyclopedic. The area of preserved locomotives, specifically steam locomotives, attracts a high proportion of disruptive editors (usually children, or people who act like children anyway). I try to steer clear and have removed almost all such articles from my watchlist. Getting kind of tired of fighting sockmasters in this area, just put this one away last month and currently fighting another (getting eyes at SPI these days is near impossible, sadly).

Back when this specific draft was discussed, I made the point (which I still stand by) that trying to list every single preserved locomotive in the United States within a single article would be impossible and futile, as the list could easily expand to thousands of entries. I also believe there is zero reason to even have such a list, as it can be fully handled by categories (e.g. Category:Preserved steam locomotives of the United States, which already exists along with subcats). Any notable locomotives will have their own article within the category, defeating the purpose of the list. The list would just be a duplication of information and one more page added to our maintenance backlogs (it would forever attract IPs adding unsourced crap and original research). Those are my thoughts. Someone else may feel differently, of course. You could try WT:TRAINS and see if anyone is interested. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 17:22, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Just sent this Doncram draft to AfC: Draft:EM Ranch. A ranch complex with a hydrothermal spring attached! Netherzone (talk) 01:16, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

That makes total sense. Thanks for the input and the history @Trainsandotherthings Will ask at WT:TRAINS if I get to it, but may also just let it go to G13 the next time. There are enough admins around who are willing to restore his drafts - including me - if someone makes a case for why it's needed and is willing to caretake it. And ugh yes on SPI. Makes me wish I had the tech skills to apply as clerk or CU Star Mississippi 12:53, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

@Star Mississippi, I just sent this to AfC: Draft:Empson Cannery. Netherzone (talk) 18:47, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

And just finished up Draft:Miner's Hat, will now send to AfC. Netherzone (talk) 19:44, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

 Done

All my classing as start means is > stub, so if you think they should be higher, feel free to re-assess. This has never been an area I was involved with. Star Mississippi 00:37, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! Start seems about right to me also. Netherzone (talk) 00:53, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Just sent this Doncram draft to AfC. Draft:McCutchen Theatre Will try to do another later today. Netherzone (talk) 16:30, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

And this draft can be deleted: Draft:College Hill Historic District (Pullman, Washington) - I discovered there already was a stub article in mainspace so I moved the new improvements over to that article College Hill Historic District (Pullman, Washington). Netherzone (talk) 17:58, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Hi! I think (but may well be wrong) that we need to keep it for attribution. If I'm wrong, it can be deleted and I'm happy to G7 it, but in the interim I redirected it. Star Mississippi 18:05, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

I wrote the vast majority of the article, the original Doncram draft was just a few sentences and the infobox. So I think it's OK to either redirect or delete the draft, since I mentioned Doncram (so he would be credited) in my edit summary when I moved over the content that I had written...so we both are attributed to the improvements to the existing article. But please do whatever you think is best! Netherzone (talk) 18:57, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

I just submitted this Doncram draft to AfC: Draft:Grimes House and Mill Complex Netherzone (talk) 14:29, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Do they have mail on your teleportation device?

Hello, Netherzone. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

.

No rush at all, and no answer needed. Star Mississippi 02:46, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Tin can telephone (1882)

There's actually pretty good telecommunications here. Sent a message back at 'cha. Netherzone (talk) 13:25, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Tin can phones and string "stilts". I miss those days, although mine weren't quite that old.

Got yours and will answer today or tomorrow. Star Mississippi 13:46, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Ever added a third string and can for a party line? --ARoseWolf 14:19, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

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Thanks so much for your help with the Articles on Matsubata Nobuo.

hope you can help me again i nthe future! i have a long list of Japanese textiles artists who im trying to compile information and publish articles on. once i fill out Matsubara a bit more i want towrite about 柳　晋哉 who is also prominent weaver from the yanagi family (created mingei(folkart) movement) Markmcnbowe97 (talk) 03:36, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for reaching out. Good luck with your future projects on Japanese textile artists. I look forward to reading them! Don't hesitate to contact me if you have any questions. Netherzone (talk) 03:42, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Review Pages

I came across you via the Corinne Silva page and see that you're a page reviewer. Would you mind reviewing 2 pages I created that are awaiting review. draft:Rivka Bayech and Draft:Logan Levkoff Thanks. MaskedSinger (talk) 08:55, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

@MaskedSinger, sorry to disappoint you but as a volunteer editor I don't do reviews on demand. The exception to this has been in the case of deceased editors, where I have worked with a team of others to help clean up any expiring drafts or unreviewed articles in user or article space. I'd suggest trusting your drafts to the normal AfC process. Netherzone (talk) 15:44, 24 May 2024 (UTC)