User talk:Bruceanthro/Archive 1

Welcome

Hello Bruceanthro, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions, they have helped improve Wikipedia and make it more informative. I hope you enjoy using Wikipedia and decide to make additional contributions. Some resources to help new Wikipedians include:

How to edit a page

Editing tutorial

Picture tutorial

How to write a great article

Naming conventions

Manual of Style

As a contributor to Australian articles, you may like to connect with other Australian Wikipedians through the Australian Wikipedians' notice board and take a look at the activities in Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia and associated sub-projects.

Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes ~~~~; this will automatically produce your name and the date.

If you have any questions, please see Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, try the Wikipedia:Help desk, or ask me on my talk page. Or you can just type {{helpme}} on your user page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions.

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Thank you for signing up!

Mattinbgn\ ^talk 00:06, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Duplicate images uploaded

Thanks for uploading Image:Ngarrabullgin001.JPG. A machine-controlled robot account noticed that you also uploaded the same image under the name Image:Ngarrabullgin001.jpg. The copy called Image:Ngarrabullgin001.jpg has been marked for speedy deletion since it is redundant. If this sounds okay to you, there is no need for you to take any action.

This is an automated message- you have not upset or annoyed anyone, and you do not need to respond. In the future, you may save yourself some confusion if you supply a meaningful file name and refer to 'my contributions' to remind yourself exactly which name you chose (file names are case sensitive, including the extension) so that you won't lose track of your uploads. For tips on good file naming, see Wikipedia's image use policy. If you have any questions about this notice, or feel that the deletion is inappropriate, please contact User:Staecker, who operates the robot account. Staeckerbot 02:14, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Move of Lake Eacham to Yidyam

Greetings, I have put some comments about the move of move from Lake Eacham to Yidyam on Talk:Yidyam. Please let me know what you think. Fosnez (talk) 02:47, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

On another note

I have had a look at some of your other contributions, and have noted that a lot of your edits include changing North Queensland locations from their well known, common, and as far as I know officiall English names to Aboriginal names. As a resident of Cairns, I have not heard anything about Fitzroy Island being officially renamed to Gabar, as would signified by "formally known as Fitzroy Island" on Fitzroy Island National Park and I think it would be a shock to most residents of the Atherton Tablelands that Lake Eacham is now apparently known as Yidyam. Can you provide any reference to these changes of names, official or otherwise? If not I would suggest reverting the changes you have made, but of course including the relevant information of the aboriginal names and their meanings.

Articles that I respectfully suggest you move back include:

• Ngarrabullgan - Mount Mulligan
• Gabar - Fitzroy Island
• Yidyam - Lake Eacham

On still another note: "Fitzroy Island National Park is a formally gazetted protected area covering..." - the italicized text is hard to understand, would it be possible to rephrase it or wikilink to an explanation? Fosnez (talk) 03:08, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Moving pages

Hi Bruceanthro,

When moving pages, please do not cut and paste the content to the new page. Under Wikipedia's licencing arrangements, contributors to articles are required to be acknowledged through the page history; cutting and pasting removes that link. Instead, please use the "move" tab on the top of the article. This will move the article and the page history to the new title. See Help:Moving a page for more details. I have tagged the Yidyam (Lake Eacham), Queensland page for repair. Please let me know if you have any questions. -- Mattinbgn\^talk 05:18, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

• To follow up, has there been any other pages that you have moved using cut and paste? If so, please let me know so that I can arrange to have the page history restored. Thanks, Mattinbgn\^talk 05:27, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Please stop moving pages by copying and pasting the content. Use the "Move" tab on the top of the page. Copying and pasting can split the history. Mr.Z-man 05:56, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi, the cut and paste page moves for Lake Eacham have now been repaired, please remember to use the "page move" function in the future when renaming pages. Cheers, Mattinbgn\^talk 05:57, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Not a problem. Moving pages isn't difficult, but if you need help, please let me know. Cheers, Mattinbgn\^talk 21:23, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Re:Using original names for geological features?

Greetings,

Perhaps this can best be solved by using Uluru as an example. Of course the situation is reversed as it is officially known by its Aboriginal name and also as Ayres Rock. Regarding naming conventions, I think it would probably be best to have the articles named as they are in the official names register, but also to include their other names in the first line of the actual article (but without to much clutter to allow for easy reading of the introduction). Of course their other names could have redirect pages being pointed back to the "official" name article. Here is an example:

Lake Eacham (also known as Wiinggina or Yidyam) is a popular lake of volcanic origin on the Atherton Tableland....

Then I would suggest a "Name" section that explains the history of the name.

Hopefully this covers all the bases so to speak? Fosnez (talk) 05:26, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Looks great! I had added links to the top of the pages of Mount Mulligan, Queensland and Ngarrabullgan that link to each other. I hope to see you around! Fosnez (talk) 12:54, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Intellectual Property Statement

Hi, Bruceanthro,

Once again, good work on the articles on Far North Queensland. I am a little concerned about the intellectual property statement that you have designed and attached to some articles. I am not sure if it complies with Wikipedia's License and it may contravene Wikipedia's policy on censorship.

There was some discussion on a similar issue earlier at Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board/Archive 27#Template:Indigenous Australians/deceased that you may be interested in reading. I understand and sympathise with the reasons behind the statement, but I do not think it is compatible with Wikipedia's role. I also feel that individual editors should not bind Wikipedia or its associated bodies to any position on intellectual property.

I have raised this issue at Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board#Indigenous Intellectual Property Statement and your input would be welcome. -- Mattinbgn\^talk 00:50, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi, a quick follow up - please see Wikipedia:No disclaimers in articles as this may apply in this circumstance. Cheers, Mattinbgn\^talk 01:05, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Always happy to help. Some of these pages are well hidden. Wikipedia is so large and almost Byzantine in its policies, noticeboards, procedures etc it sometimes feels the articles are the tip of the iceberg! The noticeboard is a good resource however if you feel you need some guidance or a secord (or third) such as naming conventions etc. or if you just want to bring something to the attention of other editors of Australian articles. Cheers, Mattinbgn\^talk 06:47, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The Resilient Barnstar
		I award you this Barnstar for being able to respond rationally and calmly to differing opinions and willing to act on good advice. Wikipedia needs more editors with these qualities. Well done. Mattinbgn\talk 05:35, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

I saw your new article and that was the prompt for the barnstar. I have made some formatting edits to tidy up the notes and references section using the {{cite web}} template. You may find {{cite book}} and {{cite news}} useful as well. Cheers, Mattinbgn\^talk 06:02, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Merging

Given that the tagging editor did not state a rationale for merging, I think your response in the talk page is sufficient to remove the tags now. I would reply to the tagger on his/her talk page, directing them to the points you made. (There is no need to duplicate your comments - direct them to the article talk page so all discussion takes place at one point.) If the tagging editor feels a merge is still appropriate, he/she will reply to your comments and perhaps replace the tags. If this happens, it may be best to seek a third opinion; perhaps at WP:ANTHRO. Cheers, Mattinbgn\^talk 06:13, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion Indigenous intellectual property be merged into Traditional Knowledge

Thanks for your message on my talk page. Please see my response here. --Edcolins 17:08, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Personality rights.

Since you asked about them: personality rights. Example. It is not allowed to use the image, name or voice of an ESA astronaut to market your product in a way that makes it looks as if the product is "condoned/advised" by this person or the ESA agency, without permission of either of them. It is a crossover between "privacy law" and "trademark law". The terms are usually very loose and mostly based on things like reputation of the person involved. The most severe of these uses are actually covered by International Copyright laws and treaties, and therefore apply to any copyrighted work (and according to some interpretations even Public Domain work), regardless of licensing, unless explicitly relinquished (and even then in many jurisdictions you can still fall back on these laws depending on the severity of the "violation" of your personality rights.) The problem is that every country defines them in a different way, with a different legal position (in terms of severity). On commons this has for instance created the problem that whereas American government work is public domain (and thus free) European government work is copyrighted and licensed under specific conditions even though usage is "free". Now since US law has "higher laws" on trademark and privacy, that take precedence over the rights other people have about using public domain materials, the European countries have these terms included specifically in most of their licenses because the copyright law is "equally high" on the scale of te law. The result? Two types of sources with similar materials, with similar usage restrictions, but we can include most American government work (no copyright, covered by other laws) and we cannot use the equivalent european works with equivalent usage restrictions, because there the restrictions are part of the license..... Stupid right? --TheDJ (talk • contribs) 01:49, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Evolution and religion

Thanks for your response. Muntuwandi (talk) 04:57, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Huh, this response? [1]. You are too kind, Muntuwandi. - Jeeny ^(talk) 09:56, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Aborigine

Yes perhaps that was the best thing to wipe the slate clean and start again. it needs somebody to write a full articles on it-I don't know how many experts we have on such a subject on wikipedia but I am suprosed there aren't at least a few Aboriginal wikipedians. SPECTRE won't eliminate you for not being evil -you are quite safe, although you never know when one of my metric tonne weighing henchmen may pay you a visit. Adios ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 13:09, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Australian Aboriginal mythology

Hey, if you want to take a break for 5-10 minutes, I'd like to do some spelling and formating clean up on this article. There's quite a few and I pretty much lost my corrections in an edit conflict with you. Drop a line on my talk page. Cheers, Pigman☿ 04:04, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Don't get you hopes up much. What I'm doing is very basic spelling check and a little format cleanup. I see you've been hard at work on this article and it actually looks great from what I've seen. Let me know when you want a more thorough going over by a copyeditor and I'd be happy to help out. I'm pretty good at cleaning up sentences and making sure of the overall flow of the total article, if I do say so myself. Otherwise you seem to be doing quite well. Cheers, Pigman☿ 04:18, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Endeavour River

I can't immediately verify its inclusion in the Wet Tropics region. I can however refer you to this official document which states that 19 national parks and 31 state forests fall at least partially within the area of that site. Personally, I come from the USA and don't know anything directly one way or another right now. I will try to find more substantial information later, maybe even today if I'm lucky. John Carter (talk) 16:35, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

According to this map of the WHS, I would assume that you are justified in saying ER isn't a part of the area. John Carter (talk) 13:53, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Possible contributions to Australian Aboriginal mythology!??

Thank you so much for your friendly request and for all the work you have been doing to make the page really useful and worthwhile. Now, I will be very happy to help - but won't be able to do much until sometime in February. My wife has just retired and we are leaving on a driving holiday to the Atherton Tablelands on Sunday to visit fiends and have a real look at places we have only driven through in the past. We expect to be away until about the end of the first week in February.

The next thing I should mention it that I am by no means an expert on Cape York Peninsula Aboriginal matters - although I have worked for some years for various communities here, and lived in a couple of them, and visited many rock art sites with the proper custodians. I have also done some reading and have a number of knowledgeable Aboriginal friends here who I can consult. So, together, we should be able to write something - at least in general terms - on a couple of the east coast tribes (unfortunately, I know very little of the people on the west coast or at the tip - although I have briefly visited almost all the communities there). So, if you can wait until I get back, I will certainly get started drafting something up and asking around to fill the gaps in my knowledge.

I think you are quite right to be worried about the over-representation of Central Australian material and, as you might have guessed, my main learning with Aboriginal people was during the years my wife and I worked in Alice Springs, Uluru, Ernabella, etc., although we both first started working with Aboriginal people in Redfern in the early 70s.

Please send me a reminder about the middle of Feb., if you don't hear from me first (my memory is not the best these days). I do hope I can be of help. Thanks for contacting me. All best wishes for 2008 to you and yours! Cheers, John Hill (talk) 22:17, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Just received your message this morning. Thanks so much and keep up the good work. John Hill (talk) 21:48, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Wow that great progress you're making. Keep up the good work!! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^Talk? 11:40, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Brisbane meetup

	Brisbane Meetup Next: To be decided (watch) Last: Saturday 13 January 2018
See also: Australian events listed at Wikimedia.org.au (or on Facebook)

Delivered on behalf of Dihydrogen Monoxide. Giggabot (talk) 13:55, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Possible contributions to Anthro pages

To answer your questions, if you point me to a particularly poorly done but not too complex or controversial Anthro page I will be happy to have a look. I edited quite a few pages last year, having shared the sentiment that many pages were poorly done. The overall tasks became formidable, so I focus my effort now at our own wiki site, InterSci, which is more interdisciplinary and not an Encyclopedia per se. But always happy to help out back at Wikipedia, it was the inspiration for us all.Douglas R. White (talk) 18:24, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

early infanticidal childrearing

Hi, Bruceanthro

I was glad to see your words in talk:early infanticidal childrearing. I wonder though if in this sentence—:

and I therefore give thanks to Wikipedia plus this article's author/s for bringing this model/theory about human childrearing to my attention??

—you really wanted to write interrogation marks at the end? By the way, have you read the main psychohistory article?

Cheers!

Cesar Tort 05:13, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

serpentine

G'day Bruce. I have no opinion on the correct spelling of Wagyl, it was done on the fly, is the ref you quoted the first (printed) mention. I have taken and interest in the complex of articles that refer to rainbow serpents. I note that in the one you edited earlier, the information is different to other articles that mention it. I will read them all through and try to get them into accord, I intend to fix the Wonambi genus first - the name from Pitjantjatjara for the being which took this form. If you are interested I will let you know about the related articles, it is a meandering path through all of these. As with all things here; I had intended to simply supply a ref that the Wagyl is the Rainbow serpent and became sidetracked.

Thanks for this message (hope you're watching here?). Yes . .the spelling I used was taken directly from the Radcliffe-Brown's original article (which, within the context, is the most accurate usage), though this does not by any means make it the most authentic local Aboriginal usage/spelling!!

I should also thank you for making the link in the first place, and, yes please, I would be interested in seeing all the related articles regarding this Aborignal mythological category (?) compiled. Maybe something for newish (& unadvertised) Wikipedia:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of Australia??

Bruceanthro (talk) 00:56, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

No problem, and happy to help with the project. I think that it's a good idea. I will have another go at improving the page. A link to current discussions will be useful. Cheers, cygnis insignis 04:47, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

WP:RM

I have once again removed the GIS applications-merge requests, as WP:RM handles requested moves, not merges. Please tag any articles you'd like merged with {{merge-multiple}} (or similar), or be bold and begin merging them yourself. JPG-GR (talk) 04:16, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Old shires in QLD

Hey :) Just so you know I'm planning to rewrite them all something like this, using what info I can get on Monday (I have access to a pretty decent university library). Most of them are stubs anyway and getting them done (eg the suburb/town lists) will help with the new ones as, unlike Victoria (thankfully!), most of them are clean merges (only three entities got dissipated - Taroom, Beaudesert and Tiaro). Orderinchaos 03:35, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

OK .. That's great. I'll await your rewrite! Not sure if it was decided to also go through relocating all the still existing localities into the new local government areas etc .. and, if so, whether a bot or other solution was found .. So . .please let me know if there may be anything I can help with on an odd night over the next week or so?!! Bruceanthro (talk) 03:46, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah as you can see it's taking longer than I expected... they're getting done slowly though. The North and South Burnett, Gympie, Sunshine Coast, Gold Coast/Logan, Scenic Rim, Fraser Coast, Lockyer Valley, Somerset and Toowoomba ones as well as TSI and NPA are done for former LGAs, and Bundaberg, Gladstone, Dalby, Southern Downs and Goondiwindi are next. After that the focus will be on improving some of the continuing shires in the far north, northwest and north. BTW do you have any info on the ATSI stuff? I'm probably going to hit the library in a couple of weeks for that, but no idea where to start... I did Deed of Grant in Trust which helps with some of it, but I'm trying to find substantiation of the rumours that Aurukun and Mornington were set up in 1978 more to spite the residents than to serve them. Orderinchaos 16:59, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Oh and re the localities, haven't got to that yet. I'm trying to make it easier for myself/whoever does it by being as comprehensive as possible on that front with the former shires. Hopefully then all that will be required is to go through those and just copy them in :) Orderinchaos 17:00, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

The amount you have been doing almost single handed is phenomenal! Regarding the 'ATSI' local government stuff ..:

1. I do personally hold some more 'dated' material on the Aboriginal local councils .. primarily produced in the Goss Government's "Electoral and Admistrative Review Commission (EARC) .. which may be useful!

How's this for coincidental - literally 3 mins before I opened this browser I was thinking "We really need an article on EARC" and had just started researching it with the 1993 Year Book as a starting point... there's 62 related publications in my uni library. Orderinchaos 08:41, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

2. One seriously controversial aspect to the creation of the Deed's of Grants in Trust and vesting them in a different kind, and seperate class of local government in Queensland .. is that:

2i. each Aboriginal population resident on each of those DOGITS were effectively excised/disenfranchaied by the the Joh Bjelke-Petersen Government from voting in the larger Shires like Bourke Shire and Cook Shire ..

2ii. if it weren't for the DOGITS and Community Service's legislation .. the Cook Shire for instance would have had an estimated 67% or more voting Aboriginal population .. After the creation of the DOGITS, the proportion of Aboriginal peoples eligible to vote in the shires was cut to below 20%

2iii. it was only after the Aboriginal votes had been disenfranchaised from Cook and Bourke . .that those Shires held elections and achieved status as full local governments (I'm doing this from memory .. but this should appear in their histories?)

I know Torres's first election was in 1991, and that as of 1986 Year Book Cook, Torres, Aurukun and Mornington were all governed directly by LGD, so I assume they got elections at the same time. I had assumed that was simply with the spirit of reform and Goss's victory, but there's probably quite a few motives involved :) Orderinchaos 08:47, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

2iv. the Joh Bjelke-Petersen Government's effective disenfranchaisement of Aboriginal people's from voting in surrounding shires .. was left untouched through Goss, Borbidge, Beattie . .and most glaringly .. through this last round of local government amalgamations and reform!!

I would, of course, be interested if and when time permitted, in including some of this in the DOGIT article you've created ..

3. With regards to the creation of Aurukun and Mornington Island Shires .. as I recall, these Shire's preceeded the DOGIT's .. and both these Shires and the DOGIT's all arose out of a Gough Government vs Bjelke-Petersen Government 'human rights' stoush over Queensland's Aboriginal reserves .. during which time the Cwlth passed special legislation to the effect that if 70(?)% of theresidents of any Queensland Aboriginal reserve signed a petition seeking Cwlth intervention . .the reserves would be excised from State Government jurisdicition and managed by the Commonwealth .... Again .. would be glad to assist?

4. Given that you are being so comprehensive and thorough .. I haven't checked ... but I wondered what happened to Weipa under the Local Government reforms .. It was previously a bit of an odd ball local government arrangement .. whereby the mining company Comalco effectively had full local government jurisdiction and responsibility (unelected of course) .. and the residents of Weipa (primarily miners) didn't get to vote in Cook Shire or any local government elections either?

Sorry for the length of this reply .. but you tapped some older, dustier memories .. and got me thinking again :-)

No worries - glad to see we're both on the same wavelength! Re Weipa, still seems to exist. All the ABS reports include it under Cook (S), and the Year Book when noting there was "3 towns" was clearly ignoring Weipa. This stuff would all be fascinating to research and get happening in articles, look forward to working with you :) I take it like myself you're also time-limited, my attitude to a lot of these things is there's no deadline so we get things done as we can. There are presently about 100 featured articles from WP:AUS, I thin there's scope for quite a few from this Queensland governance stuff. Orderinchaos 08:43, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I got the impression from my readings that it's sort of a pretend local government, where it's really run by the company but it allows a measure of self determination by giving locals the vote for a certain number of the authority's seats. Would be interesting to find academic papers which evaluate whether Weipa actually exhibits local democracy. Orderinchaos 16:19, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

As a total aside, it's truly amazing what one gets into in this place - I am in Perth and I took on the task of converting the Queensland LGAs more because of my past work with the Victorian ones, which mostly came out of a pair of trips to the State Library of Victoria the last time I was in Melbourne. The info for Queensland isn't anywhere near as complete as it is for WA and Victoria because a comprehensive publication which chronicled changes to local government never seems to have been produced, unlike the Municipal Directory of Victoria and the Municipal Boundaries Register for WA. SA is even more enigmatic - even their census populations are a challenge to obtain (I'm going to have a go when in Melbourne next week though), let alone the history of local government - their ABS year books aren't dreadfully useful for SA outside Adelaide, and books about their local government system are hard to come by. With Queensland I've found with enough patience and access to just enough uni libraries and state libraries, as well as writing lots of emails to confirm dates and minutiae, one can piece together what one needs. Orderinchaos 16:50, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Just an update - I have assignments coming out of my ears until the end of May, but I'll probably be looking to open a lot of this stuff up in June. I recently visited Melbourne and got a heap of stuff out of Monash Uni library, and am working between three libraries here in Western Australia to fill in the gaps. As I believe in starting the story at the beginning I'm looking at getting the Divisional Boards Act 1879/1887, Local Authorities Act 1902 and Local Government Act 1936 and amending acts documented first (means going back to my law school training for noting up legislation, though being 12 years ago it's a tad rusty!) and working with the Wikisource people to get the originals of these acts made available on open source. I've discovered an interesting story with relation to Thomas McIlwraith and the original Divisional Boards Act which I want to get to the bottom of as well. Once these are done then I'll be shifting my attention to the EARC process - I now have copies of most of the Hansard debates for these, am trying to figure out what actually happened and when and why with that. Orderinchaos 02:39, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

help

Can you comment here Slrubenstein | Talk 21:06, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Titles in Lake Eacham (Queensland)

Greetings, I hope all is well in your world? I have changed the way that the headings in Lake Eacham (Queensland) were written to bring them more into line with the Manual of Style. Let me know if I can help out anymore. Fosnez (talk) 06:30, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

No worries. Can't help but take the opportunity to refer to places by their original names if/when I can .. though I do note Yidinji may call the place Yidyam (orginal version of Eacham), bu the Nganjon-jii call it something quite different!

I hope the new, brief 'recent history' section, added to accompany the photo you'd uploaded and included within the article .. was appropriate and useful? Bruceanthro (talk) 08:10, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi from GlennMatthewE

Thanks for the message. Leslie was particularly interested in contacting you when she found that you were interested in concepts of natural and cultural landscapes, an area she is also particularly interested in. Her work has been primarily in the west and north of Canada, and she has worked both on landscape and ethnobotany research.

I am not actually an anthropologist, more like a musician, but I enjoy the challenge of finding clear, short expositions of these kinds of concepts which are comprehensible to laymen such as myself and yet accurate with a hint of subtlety.

The hardest part at the moment is finding a clear statement of what I have termed "cosmological, moral and spiritual significances". No discussion of ethnobiology would be complete without it, but I am finding it hard to proceed, so for the moment I have left it blank in the hope that better minds than mine will take up the torch.

Another section which I think would be appropriate to include would be an overview of ethical issues specific to ethnobiology: the history of dominant cultures' use of traditional knowledge, the development of international legal standards and critiques by indigenous groups especially in areas of ethnopharmacological and other forms of biopiracy. Your link to the indigenous intellectual property statements is a good resource but not a great overview of the issues specifically relating to ethnobiology.

I have been relying on Leslie for references, and it takes a while to track down appropriate ones, if you have any please feel free to throw them in.

thanks again, good to talk,

Glenn —Preceding unsigned comment added by GlennMatthewE (talk • contribs) 07:48, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

ethnobiology page

thanks for the changes, all good. I corrected the first reference url ... there was a spurious character which prevented the link from working correctly.

thanks a lot for the history stuff, I knew there had to be one and I haven't the resources to write a good one. There should eventually also be a methods section, and that is again something I might try, but with a certain amount of fear and trembling, as I am not an expert. If you started it I wouldn't complain :) .

Also, I added the ethics section, but if you felt you had some way to improve it, don't hesitate to do so.

good working with you, Glenn —Preceding unsigned comment added by GlennMatthewE (talk • contribs) 17:23, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

ethnoecology

I notice a little disagreement in the literature as to whether enthnoecology is a subdiscipline of ethnobiology or the other way 'round. any insights? how should we proceed re: ethnoecology in the ethobiology article?

GlennMatthewE (talk) 06:05, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Darrell Posey article

Thank you for your kind suggestions. I am a beginner in Wiki and did not even know of a scientist bio template. The idea behind this supposedly multi-handed writing is to aid the sessions at the forthcoming International Society of Ethnobiology congress in Cusco, Peru, that will debate the "Darrell A. Posey legacy." Many of us who knew Posey at various times will not be able to attend, and it is hoped that the Wikipedia biography will bring together our joint contributions. I hope you will lend a hand, as well. Best wishes, Bill Overal Wloveral (talk) 23:54, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I've added an absolutely minimal "subdiscpline - ethnoecology" section, just to get it happening. GlennMatthewE (talk) 20:16, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Ethnoecology

Wow you work fast!!! I am impressed. looks good, thanks for your improvements, I am feeling perhaps a bit superfluous :) . GlennMatthewE (talk) 04:24, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

ethnobiologist bios

Leslie suggests that if you are into adding bios of prominent ethnobiologists, one you might want to consider is Nancy Turner, an ethnobotanist who has been working with elders in the Pacific northwest (mostly British Columbia, Canada). The society of ethnobiology has a short blurb about her at

http://www.ethnobiology.org/news/index.html#nancy

I am not enough in the wiki loop to know whether she is important enough for a page.... so I leave it to you. GlennMatthewE (talk) 23:28, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

cultural knowledge experts

re: the question of whether indigenous experts should be listed as ethnobiologists, perhaps what should happen is to rename the section "ethnobiologists and cultural knowledge experts" or something similar, allowing us to sidestep the question of what kind of expert a given person is while still recognizing the invaluable expertise and peer status of the indigenous consultants to the ethnobiological enterprise. When I ran this idea by Leslie, she was positive. How do you feel? GlennMatthewE (talk) 03:47, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Re: What happened to Talk:Historical ecology?

Talk:Historical ecology had one edit, the content of which was '''hello'''. Cheers. --MZMcBride (talk) 05:22, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Aborigine

Hi Bruce. I keep an eye on the Aborigine page as it is a constant target for mindless vandalism. Today, I noted this edit and I am not comfortable with it. My (extremely limited) experinces with TSI people is that they are super-keen on retaining an Melanesian identity and to be recognised as separate but in partnership with the Aboriginal community. I am not sure that one quote from Lowitja O'Donoghue, who is not TSI herself, should over-ride the status quo at the article. Perhaps the context of the quote would be useful if you have it? Cheers, Mattinbgn\^talk 02:12, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Never mind, I see what you have done. You have turned the definition around. That's fine and I am happy. Cheers, Mattinbgn\^talk 02:15, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

The thing is, half of it isn't racist, just mindless - adding strings of "fasfsdfsdfsdf" through it or blanking it. The articles on Bushranger and Sandstone get the same sort of treatment. Of course some of it is just crude and racist in intent too. My initial confusion, of course, is on first glance I thought you were trying to include TSI people in a definition of Aborigine, but of course you were not.

On another note, I have in the past linked the word Aborigine and Aboriginal to Indigenous Australians such as in Riverina as it seemed an unwritten policy. Perhaps there is a case for pointing those links to Australian Aborigines, Note that Australian Aboriginal redirects to Indigenous Australians. Cheers, Mattinbgn\^talk 05:50, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

I'd also thought it was an unwritten policy. Don't really know what it should be - I'm uncomfortable with Aborigine because of its strong links to colonial and post-colonial treatment of Aboriginal people and its somewhat derisive use in that context, but I'm not sure what it should be. Australian Aboriginal people perhaps? Orderinchaos 02:34, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

ABS uses "Indigenous" - seems to be quite common in a lot of social science areas, but as yet another imposed name with no cultural connection it doesn't seem to solve the problem (that quite apart from the fact our Aboriginals were given a latin name by colonials rather than for example Māori, Hawaiian, Zulu, Masai etc. Orderinchaos 07:16, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Djabugay people

Do you have any picture of the Djabugay people to use in the article? Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 04:22, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

No, I do not have any picture. Since you are the contributor of the article, I am asking you. I think two pictures will be appropriate - one past image and one contemporary image. If contemporary free image is not available, then you can upload non-free image under fair use for using in this article only. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 04:34, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Mount Warning

Do you know when the last eruption took place? Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 23:52, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Glance over plea

Hi Bruceanthro, I've cleaned up this light section[2] as a warm-up to working on the Bourdieu article. There were heaps of typos and clunky (academic paper) phrasing, including the style of Harvard referencing that brings all sorts of bods into the section having their say. My rational for backgrounding them by inline cites is that at ground level, wikipedia presents information, not discursive argument throughout a bunch of statements. It's to avoid the essay approach. If you have time I'd appreciate you running through it to check the sense is retained. It's a start, anyway. cheers, Julia Rossi (talk) 00:42, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

It must be my Bourdieu weekend. The introduction lacked the whole point of why he was a star, which it now has, but a way to go before you can safely introduce your friend to PB. Also I'd like to compact some of the rigour into explaining why he as a post-structuralist, needed to invent a meta-language to get those thick terminology blocks in perspective. Would that be helpful? Thanks Bruceanth, Julia Rossi (talk) 05:37, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Totemism

Yes, it would be ok if you were to put the section on totemism up for discussion. Hopefully, more information can be added to the section, enough to warrant the creation of a new page. I agree that the totemism of America is different, but the reference to that system in my section was merely to help convey the system and its meanings to readers. The totemism system found across Australia in most Aboriginal tribes only applies to living organisms, and therefore excludes rocks, landscapes, constellations and other non living aspects of the environment. The skills and abilities are not physically transfered to a person once they recieve their totem, but the persons own skills, abilities and attitudes determine the totem given to them. Thanks for looking at my contribution, and anything that you think will help to improve it is ok by me. Magically Clever (talk) 01:52, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Brisbane meetup invitation

	Brisbane Meetup Next: To be decided (watch) Last: Saturday 13 January 2018
See also: Australian events listed at Wikimedia.org.au (or on Facebook)

Hey there, you're invited to the second Brisbane Meetup. Please see the page at Wikipedia:Meetup/Brisbane/2 for more details. Hope to see you there!

Automated message delivered by Giggabot (stop!) to Wikipedians in Queensland and known Brisbaneites, at 03:29, 7 June 2008 (UTC).

Willie Wagtail

Hey Bruce, I got this article thru GA ok, any further anthroological material is most welcome...Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:35, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Consensus

Try reading Wikipedia:Consensus Wikipedia:Deletion_guidelines_for_administrators#Rough_consensus as well. It isn't about numbers, or adding strong. Furthermore, as noted in the discussion, this is just one of a number of similar discussions that have been taking place at WP:CFD recently: here, here, here, here and here. Regards, Bencherlite^Talk 13:44, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. To answer a few questions:

Notification of Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groups? Not that WikiProjects have to be notified for a CfD decision to be valid, but see here. The list of archives at the top of the talk page was incomplete(!)

Did I know about the discussion at the Australian noticeboard? No - but as someone said there, "Please note any salient conclusions from all this here need to find their way to Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2008 June 20 for any real effect".

The pre-existing Fooian-Australian categories will be deleted. As for whether there should be a category structure for dual nationals, that's outside the remit of my closure of this CfD. A quick search found Category:People with acquired citizenship, although that isn't quite the same, I realise, as some people may be born as dual nationals. Regards, Bencherlite^Talk 17:25, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:WCPA Logo.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:WCPA Logo.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 05:12, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

It seems original has been replaced with a better, clearer version of the same image .. guess I just wait for the original to be deleted? Bruceanthro (talk) 13:50, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

do you have a comment

on the criteria for notability of accademic books? If you have time could you comment here Slrubenstein | Talk 09:33, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

image in the ehtnobiology post

Hi there,

Can you please tell me the origin of the image of the person planting seeds in the ethnobiology post? Who is the artist? Where did it come from?

Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.180.14.94 (talk) 15:12, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Whom-ever it is that wishes to know more about the image used in the ethnobiology post .. that image was first sketched in pencil by my partner, Alicia Jamieson, then scanned, colored and converted into a digital image by myself to be used expressly to portray the inter-relatedness of things cultural and things natural (ie the biocultural nature of this world. Bruceanthro (talk) 11:46, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Image source problem with Image:NomadArchaeologyCover01.jpg

Image Copyright problem

Thanks for uploading Image:NomadArchaeologyCover01.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, their copyright should also be acknowledged.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the image is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Wikipedia:Fair use) then the image will be deleted 48 hours after 01:49, 29 October 2008 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Nv8200p talk 01:49, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Incest taboo

Please consider helping to improve this article. It used to be long, then a few days ago all unsourced material was deleted leaving a bare stubb. I have been restoring some material with citations. This is a core topic in anthropology and deserves a good article. Can you help a bit? Slrubenstein | Talk 22:40, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Aboriginal totemism

Dear Bruce: I have just given your name and link to this Talk page to someone who wrote to me about "Aboriginal totemism" and thought I should write to let you know you may be hearing from them. Also, I am sorry I haven't contacted you again after our earlier discussions about Aboriginal issues up here on Cape York Peninsula - I have just been so busy (overwhelmed might be a better term) by events in my life and work on my books that I just haven't had the energy for much else. I do hope to get back to writing more about Aboriginal issues in the future. Please find below a copy of the letter I wrote in reply to User:Asdfg12345 [3]. Cheers and best wishes, John Hill (talk) 11:11, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Dear Friend: Thank you for your note. Certainly I would be more than happy to look at the papers you have and give my thoughts on them. However, I should mention that I am not the most qualified person to do this. First of all, I am not Australian Aboriginal (although I have spent almost half my life living in or close to Aboriginal communities in urban, rural and remote settings and have been very privileged to have been taught a few things and shared many priceless and often life-changing experiences with Aboriginal friends and mentors). Additionally, I am not an academic and have never made a serious academic study of Aboriginal cultures. What I do know and can share is limited - and not only from lack of knowledge - but from the lack of permission to discuss many matters publicly - and subjects such as "totemism" should really be explained by properly initiated or trained people who have the authority to speak (subjects such as these are often very sensitive and sacred or secret and subject to strict Aboriginal Law which I will, and must, respect). However, don't be discouraged - please do send the material and I will think about it and discuss it with others who will know better than I what can or should be said about it in the Wikipedia. Then I will get back to you. Cheers and all best wishes, John Hill (talk) 11:11, 11 November 2008 (UTC) PS Perhaps you should also contact 'Bruceanthro' [4] who is an anthropologist actively working on Aboriginal issues.

Hey Bruce, here's the link John referred to. It's from "Dreamtime, the Aboriginal heritage: Australian Aboriginal myths in paintings / by Ainslie Roberts ; text by Melva Jean Roberts ; line illustrations by Ainslie Roberts". It's about a quarter of it, or so, not scanned in any particular order. As I said to John, peruse at your leisure, share your thoughts freely!--Asdfg12345 10:50, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Hey Bruce, I was just checking back now to see if you'd responded, but I found I'd bungled the link. the actual link for the files is this. These will be available for another several days, maybe 4 or 5. If you miss the time limit I can upload them again. --Asdfg12345 14:08, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Cairns

I noticed you objected to use of the word 'was' in the Cairns article in relation to the area's name in the Yidinji language. There was no intention to imply that the language is extinct, but simply that the area is now more commonly known as Cairns. That said, I am happy with your change.--Jeffro77 (talk) 20:27, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Australalian Aboriginal lanuages are being lost at such a rapid rate, that it is good to be able to say, for Cairns, that the area is still locally referred to as Gimuy in Yidinji! Thanks for the message, and good cheer! Bruceanthro (talk) 23:10, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Native Title Prescribed Body Corporate

No worries on leaving you to flesh this out, but I was concerned that there was very little context in the first cut. The name was to conform to the relevant policy. regards, TrulyBlue (talk) 16:04, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Cairns

Hello. I have reverted your recent change to the Cairns article. (The sentence: "Cairns was first built on lands and waters that is the home of the Walubarra Yidinji peoples who still publicly recall their prior possession of the area, and to this day assert indigenous property rights and interests held in local Aboriginal law.") This is unnecessarily wordy, especially "still publicly recall their prior possession of the area", which is not an appropriate tone for an encyclopedia. The existing wording that native title claims are ongoing sufficiently indicates that there are still representatives of the original people living in the area.--Jeffro77 (talk) 23:28, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

I am actually editing the article at the moment. I am going to try to maintain the point you're trying to make, but with some reordering - I don't want to separate the settlement's founding from the description of the land and its subsequent clearing. On a separate note, it would indeed help to have an article on Yidinji people rather than only their language, though I have no information to start such an article. I have also requested that the correct IPA pronunciation of Yidinji be added to the language article. An article on Aboriginal law would also be helpful - it would be good to be able to refer to such an article rather than only to 'native title', to give a more balanced perspective.--Jeffro77 (talk) 23:50, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm updating all of the refs with proper citation templates for the whole article, so I'll be a little while but hopefully not too long (or I'll need more coffee).--Jeffro77 (talk) 00:12, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

History

A pending legal matter should not be presented as 'may'. Once the formal legality is determined, it can be presented as 'does' or 'does not'. Until then, only what is factual - the traditional recognition - should be stated.--Jeffro77 (talk) 17:00, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

HELP

beacuse too many cooks spoil the broth, the Culture article has been a disaster. And there were lots of valid criticisms on the talk page, and many sometimes ill-informed suggestions. I just did a major overhaul and would appreciate your checking it out. I hope you will not find cause to revert my changes. I hope you will see ways to improve them. My one request: just do not add missing information without thinking of the overall organization of the thing (otherwise, it will soon turn chaotic again) ... that is, if you think I did a poor job of reorganizing it, I hope we can discuss it and work out a better organization. Thanks, Slrubenstein | Talk 22:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Kowanyama photographs

Hi Bruce. Great photographs from Kowanyama. The more photographs we can get from your part of the world, the better! Cheers, Mattinbgn\^talk 22:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Many thanks for this encouragement! Bruceanthro (talk) 04:45, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Ethnobotany WikiProject

I recently drafted a proposal for an Ethnobotany WikiProject ... check out the project proposal for more details. I thought you might be interested due to your interest in indigenous cultures.

Cheers! Jrtayloriv (talk) 06:51, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

File:Canberra-Painting by Gil Jamieson.jpg missing description details

Dear uploader: The media file you uploaded as File:Canberra-Painting by Gil Jamieson.jpg is missing a description and/or other details on its image description page. If possible, please add this information. This will help other editors to make better use of the image, and it will be more informative for readers. If you have any questions please see Help:Image page. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 23:51, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

false Wollumbin

mount Warning is not Wollumbin. The name was stolen from my families mountain and applied to Mt Warning as a false dual name. Please check murbah history to find some articles relating to this false information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wollumbinmountain (talk • contribs) 02:08, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

The Mount Warning/Wollumbin relationship is supported by citations from reliable sources in accordance with Wikipedia's verifiability policy. --AussieLegend (talk) 03:18, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

We would appreciate your assistance to alter the false information on Wikipedia about Mt Warning. The name Wollumbin was stolen from my families Mountain and applied to Mt Warning as a false Dual name.

We have the anthropological studies from the Elders, 50 year old tapes, the 1977 NSW NPWS anthro study and the false transcripts used by national parks, dictionaries from the language speaking elders and hundreds of supporting documents, but cannot upload them to wiki and I am new to wiki. Apologies that references were not included but I am unsure how to include reference links. Professor Sharpes dictionary has the correct name for Mt Warning (Wulambiny) and is on the net. NSW Geo names board site shows that the name Wollumbin was stolen from Mt Wollumbin in 2005. We have the minutes from NSW GEO names board meetings where lie after lie was told to the board. The Elders are furious at this false info on Wikipedia.

Wollumbinmountain —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wollumbinmountain (talk • contribs) 04:22, 10 May 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wollumbinmountain (talk • contribs)

Wrong Wollumbin. Mt Warning is Wulambiny

Thank you AussieLegend and Bidgee for confirming that Geoscience Australia and NSW Geographical Names Board show Mt Warning is not Wollumbin.

Searching "Wulambiny" in Google Books reveals Linguistics Professor Margaret C Sharpe "Dictionary of Yugambeh (including Neighbouring Dialects)" published by Pacific Linguistics in 1998. ISBN 0858834804. Official information.

Professors Brian and Helen Geytenbeek lived with the Elders at Muli Muli from 1961 to 1967. They confirm Wulambiny is the name for Mt Warning.

We have the tapes from NSW NPWS Anthropologist Howard Creamer, who studied The Keeper of Lore, elder Millie Boyd in 1977. She described Mt Warning as Wulambiny Momoli (Turkey Nest). Mt Warning is the silhouette of a Scrub Turkey, separate to Wollumbin, the Fighting Chief, place of death.

My Great Great Grandparents are buried with their friends King Wollumbin Johny and his Queen Ellen, in the Wollumbin clans ancestral burial grounds, 3 ranges and 3 valleys away from Mt Warning.

Elder Millie Boyds son is sitting next to me as I write. My Great Grandfather was named Wollumbin Gum Jimmy by his Aboriginal friends. Gum means crossing, as in Byangum, Tyalgum, Tumbulgum etc. Wollumbin crossing is 3 valleys and 2 mountain ranges away from Mt Warning.

Incompetent researchers did not bother to consult NSW state maps, pioneering families from the mountains, or the Elders when they wrote false local history books claiming Mt Warning is Wollumbin Fighting Chief. Mt Warning has never been a part of Wollumbin parish, and our Mountain was mapped and Gazetted Mt Wollumbin in 1974.

They followed the false white myth that a face can be seen in Mt Warning. As you have confirmed AussieLegend, the official Geoscience Australia site shows my fathers mountain is Wollumbin and Mt Warning is not. Wikipedia Wollumbin info is false.

NSW lands department Maps also show the first village of Murwillumbah, 8 kilometers from where Murwillumbah is today. Murwillumbah moved in the early 1870s. Murwillumbah is New Murwillumbah.

Google murbah then go into History section to find some supporting documents and maps.

Bruce I have tried your emails many times. They bounce back. We prove all existing work in the area to be false. Please provide an email that works to start correspondence.

(Wollumbinmountain (talk) 08:09, 12 May 2009 (UTC))

Thanks for trying. Try again on bioculturalconnexions@yahoo.com.au! Bruceanthro (talk) 10:28, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

False Bundjalung Nation

Hi Bruce,

Githabul do have a page of their own! That is it. I just pasted their page into the false Bundjalung one.

Funny how their official referenced info on Wikipedia proves the false Wikipedia Bundjalung page to be the hoax that it is.

(Wollumbinmountain (talk) 14:40, 12 May 2009 (UTC))