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Stop removing duplicate title coordinatesEdit

Please stop removing coordinates from articles that also appear in infoboxes. See MOS:IB: infoboxes are a summary of article content, not a replacement for it. If you insist that, for some strange reason, a coordinate can only appear once, then it must appear in the article, not in its infobox summary. Please reverse your changes before I mass-rollback them. —David Eppstein (talk) 06:25, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Hello. I've been removing coordinates from near the title of articles as the information is already present elsewhere in the article. For example, Irvine, California has four or five maps and includes coordinates in the infobox. The page you're linking is a guideline and isn't applicable here. What's the issue? --MZMcBride (talk) 06:28, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
You seem to be WP:boldly performing a mass edit that affects a lot of articles. As far as I see, the relevant guideline Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers#Geographical coordinates merely mentions that display=title is an option, and does not list contexts where it should be preferred or avoided. Since your changes would seem to go against long-standing practice in a lot of articles, it's quite natural that editors would expect this to be discussed first. --Paul_012 (talk) 07:47, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
Hi Paul_012. Looking at a specific case such as Mackinac Bridge, the coordinates are weirdly and unnecessarily duplicated:
 
Is there any reason we would want this? --MZMcBride (talk) 16:24, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
I will echo others and say please stop and discuss this at WP:VPT or similar. If I understand Template:Coord#Usage correctly, coordinates are supposed to appear in the title if they are apply to the entire article, and this has wider implications. – Joe (talk) 08:01, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
Huh, yeah, you're right, thank you for pointing this out. I didn't realize the implementation of geosearch was this dumb. Requiring title coords to populate the API should absolutely be fixed. --MZMcBride (talk) 16:47, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
After some skimming, I think it's this line, where we seemingly locally overloaded the keyword "title" to mean "primary":
:::		if isInTitle(Display) and not page_title.isTalkPage and page_title.subpageText ~= 'doc' and page_title.subpageText ~= 'testcases' then args[10] = 'primary' end
:::
From Module:Coordinates (Special:Permalink/1117567318). --MZMcBride (talk) 17:01, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
I'm also very concerned to now see that you are using a script to semi-automate this without any prior discussion or approval from BAG. Surely someone with as much experience as you knows that this not okay? – Joe (talk) 08:08, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
Hi Joe Roe. I'm very confused by your note here. User scripts are outside the scope of BAG and always have been, as far as I know. In all my time here, we haven't required any approval for a user to write or install user scripts. Has that changed? --MZMcBride (talk) 16:17, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
Quoting the section I just linked, it is irrelevant whether high-speed or large-scale edits [...] are actually being performed by a bot, by a human assisted by a script, or even by a human without any programmatic assistance. – Joe (talk) 04:59, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
Hi Joe. Your specific quote is about dispute resolution. That's why the sentence begins very explicitly with "For the purpose of dispute resolution". It's strange that omitted that key part when quoting here. You posted here suggesting that user scripts require BAG approval. The sentence that you are quoting is not about the bot approvals group approving user scripts. User scripts are outside the bot approvals group's scope and always have been, as far as I know. --MZMcBride (talk) 18:42, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
I came to express the same concern. In particular, these edits don't take into account that people actually look at coordinates in the title, especially for popular pages. These are not redundant, and there is no harm in having coordinates both in the title and in an infobox. As @Joe Roe refers to above, the title attribute indicates that the coordinates apply to the entire article, and not just one of (perhaps many) places mentioned in it—so it should only be omitted in the latter case.Template:Coord#Usage also says the title option will mark the coordinates as the primary coordinates for the page (and topic of the page) in the geosearch API. If you remove title coordinates from articles such as Times Square, Central Park, and Brooklyn Bridge, these articles can no longer be seen on pages such as Special:Nearby and on the "Places" panel of the Wikipedia's official app, making it harder for readers to navigate to these articles.
Please stop these removals until you gain a consensus for them. – Epicgenius (talk) 13:31, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
Hi Epicgenius. I'm not really sure what you're talking about. For an article such as Manhattan, we include many maps already in the infobox and these exact same coordinates with additional maps if you click the little globe. That's what readers have come to expect. The title coordinates look bad on desktop and don't display at all on mobile. I'm not sure why they would still be needed in 2022. Here's what I'm talking about specifically:
 
Surely this is enough already without needing the title coords? --MZMcBride (talk) 16:30, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
OK, let me rephrase what I'm saying. Having coordinates in the title, regardless of whether they're also in an infobox, will cause the article to appear on applications that display the coordinate locations of Wikipedia articles. For example, the {{coord}} template on the Brooklyn Bridge article displays the coordinates 40.7057°N 73.9964°W. The coordinates are displayed both in the title and in the infobox. Hence, the bridge shows up on WikiShootMe because the coordinates are displayed in the title.
Contrast this with the {{coord}} template on the Queens–Midtown Tunnel article, which displays the coordinates 40.745556°N -73.964722°W (in DMS format). This article only displays coordinates in the infobox, not in the title. The tunnel does not show up on WikiShootMe, because the coordinates are not displayed in the title.
This issue is not limited to WikiShootMe. The coordinates are also used by other applications, such as Special:Nearby and the Wikipedia iOS and Android apps, which map out the locations of Wikipedia articles based on the {{coord}} template. Articles that display coordinates in the title will appear on these applications. Articles that only display coordinates inline will not appear on these applications. I'm not too concerned about whether the coordinates are displayed in the title only, or in the title and in the infobox, but removing the coordinates from the title is concerning. – Epicgenius (talk) 17:02, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
Hi Epicgenius. Thank you for clarifying. It looks like locally we're overloading the "title" keyword to also mean the "primary" coordinates of the article. We should probably just add a "primary" keyword locally? There's a bit more detail here. --MZMcBride (talk) 17:13, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
That sounds reasonable to me. Thanks for your response. – Epicgenius (talk) 17:17, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
I confirmed this behavior with local testing. If we use this syntax instead, specifying title instead of inline, it populates the API:
:::::{{coord|40|44|44|N|73|57|53|W|region:US-NY_type:landmark|display=title|name=Queens–Midtown Tunnel}}
:::::
:::::{
:::::    "batchcomplete": "",
:::::    "query": {
:::::        "normalized": [
:::::            {
:::::                "from": "User:MZMcBride/Sandbox_2",
:::::                "to": "User:MZMcBride/Sandbox 2"
:::::            }
:::::        ],
:::::        "pages": {
:::::            "8154338": {
:::::                "pageid": 8154338,
:::::                "ns": 2,
:::::                "title": "User:MZMcBride/Sandbox 2",
:::::                "coordinates": [
:::::                    {
:::::                        "lat": 40.74555556,
:::::                        "lon": -73.96472222,
:::::                        "primary": "",
:::::                        "globe": "earth"
:::::                    }
:::::                ]
:::::            }
:::::        }
:::::    }
:::::}
:::::
We should just fix this issue locally I believe. --MZMcBride (talk) 17:19, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
I don't necessarily think that this is disruptive. I mean, it's possible that some article types might not need two (or more) coords present. I reversed one change on an earthquake article because I remember seeing virtually all of our earthquake articles having the "inline, title" parameters present. That was back when WP:Earthquakes had about 800 earthquake articles (8-ish years ago). I know there's more articles now, and there could be a few in there that lack "title" nowadays, but it is certainly the majority of them. So maybe (removing them) could be limited to article type like I mentioned, or maybe by WikiProject. Dawnseeker2000 08:03, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

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