User talk:ACP2011/Archive 12

In response to your feedback

Hi ACP2011, and thank you for your feedback. To place a photo in an article, add the text:

[[File:nameoffile.png|thumb|alt=descriptionofimage|caption]]

Replace "nameoffile" with the name you saved your file under (and change the .png to .jpg or whatever file extension is appropriate), replace "descriptionofimage" with a brief description of the image (this will only be visible if someone mouse-hovers over the image), and replace "caption" with - you got it - a caption

More info at the picture tutorial.

Yunshui 雲‍水 00:02, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

 

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	Frankly, if all new contributors were as thorough, enthusiastic and conscientious as you, this place would be damn near perfect. You're doing a sterling job; you're a real asset to the project. Thank you for helping make Wikipedia a better encyclopedia. Yunshui 雲‍水 23:19, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very muchACP2011 (talk) 23:23, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Seven victory ace, not five

Hello,

I have been following the remarkable progress you have been making on the article on Lionel Ashfield. I note that you found proof of six aerial victories by him. I double-verified one of those on the article Discussion page, and added a seventh.

At some point, I will relist him onto the list of aces with seven victories. However, I do not want to disrupt your editing. If you could drop me a line on my Talk page advising when I could do this without disrupting you, it would be appreciated.

Incidentally, you may wish to both correct and extend the lede paragraph in the article.

Georgejdorner (talk) 00:05, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. I didn't want to change the lead paragraph until I received some feedback. It certainly does seem convincing that he had more than 5 victories. Any time you want to contact me is just fine. I just started contributing to Wikipedia two days ago and I really don't know my way around yet. Talk pages are just a mystery to me still. However, I am starting to get comfortable with references. Photos are still somewhat of a mystery, too, although I've made a little progress there. I've been working on two articles-the Lionel Ashfield article and the Ramscappelle Road Military Cemetery one. They're coming along. Thanks again. ACP2011 (talk) 00:21, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Please don't let this weirdness scare you off. You are the most promising new contributor I have yet seen. Please keep up the great work.

Georgejdorner (talk) 02:18, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

---

And once more, to take care of business–

You have listed six victories in the article. I confirmed one of them (18 May 1918) from my source text, and added one more on 31 May 1918. Whether you realize it or not, you have made an important contribution here. The text I used for a source is written by some of the world's most eminent aviation historians, and they were only able to give specifics for those two victories, and add that he had three others.

If you look down the left side of the article on the Ashfield article (or any other article), you will see a black header that reads "toolbox". The first link under that, as in "what links here", shows all the other WP articles linked to this one. One of them is List of World War I aces credited with 5 victories. I am going to move Ashfield to List of World War I aces credited with 7 victories as soon as you straighten out the lede. It's not a big deal, and will take me about two minutes.

The lede (or lead) is a precis of the main body of the article. As such, it establishes the reason for the article, as well giving an overview of the more detailed contents. Ledes are seldom sourced, as the same info is sourced in the body. I say seldom, because occasionally there is a highly controversial fact in the lede that just cries out for a citation, just to ward off the wowsers. In this case, just claim the seven victories for Ashfield and be done with it. No shillyshallying required.

While we are at it...I realize you are already ear-deep in new information here on WP, and probably running on sensory overload. However, I recommend that at first opportunity, you check out Flying ace and Aerial victory standards of World War I. They are two short articles, but they are key to understanding the niche of World War I aviation.

Hope this helps. I might add, you are on my watchlist, so I am riding herd on you, with the aim of pitching in if you need me.

Georgejdorner (talk) 02:18, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi George. I actually already had the May 31 kill. The way I originally listed it was that there were six from the auction website: Feb 27 (2), Mar 18, May 18, and May 21 (2). Then, there were two from Aerodrome that had specific details (out of a total of 5 that they claim): (1) The May 18 Aerodrome matched the May 18 from the auction. (2) A seventh (May 31) from Aerodrome that wasn't listed on the auction site. I wasn't sure what to make of that fact that it didn't match the auction. I wanted to see what people thought. I'm glad you agree. I did a temporary alteration of the lead paragraph (not too emphatic) until I had a chance to discuss it with you again. I'll get rid of the shilly-shallying. And by the way, I've only used Macs at home since Christmas 1995. I never had a virus until now, and I had three! I investigated and found out the Apple is trying to keep the problem (which is known) hush-hush. The absence of viruses on Macs has always been a big draw for people and one of the reasons that they're willing to shell out more bucks. But Norton came out with a version for Mac a couple of years ago because Macs have been having problems. I had never heard about it until last night. My Mac is brand new - December!!! Thanks again for all your help. ACP2011 (talk) 03:53, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

---

RFC personnel

Incidentally if you're after picture of pilots like Ashfield and have an Ancestry account - one of the collections available to search is "Great Britain, Royal Aero Club Aviators’ Certificates, 1910-1950" which includes photographs of the men. There don't seem toi be any problems in using the photos on here as they tend not to be attributed to a photographerand being over 70 years old are out of copyright - see File:Euan Dickson.jpg for an example I used. I hope you'v got Safari/Firefox sorted out. NtheP (talk) 10:55, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

The whole picture thing seems a little overwhelming. Let's start off with a single photo. I have an Ancestry account and I actually found one (so far) photo that I need for a WWI aviator article that I started today. It's in the file that you mentioned: Great Britain, Royal Aero Club Aviators' Certificates, 1910-1950. Since it's in public domain, I guess it makes sense to put it on Wikimedia for everyone. So, how do I start the process? Thanks. ACP2011 (talk) 05:13, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Everyone says that at first :-)

1. If you haven't already download the photo off Ancestry and save it on your Mac, it's useful to take a note of the date of the photo (year only is fine) and what number album it is in in the collection.

Now from here we can either use the upload wizard or the plain form. I think the wizard is actually harder and I usggest you use the plain form.

1. Go to Special:Upload
2. Source file - find the file on your Mac
3. Destination file - what you want the file to be called. Something sensible so if it's a photo of a person use his or her name and the filetype (probably either .png or .jpg)
4. Summary. Enter the following information (make sure you get the formatting right, all the pipes and curly brackets)

{{Information |Description=Flight Sub-Lieutenant Euan Dickson RN |Source=Royal Aero Club Aviators Certificates Album 11 |Date=1916 |Author=Not known |Permission={{PD-EU-no author disclosure}} {{PD-US-1923-abroad}} |other_versions= }} This is the information I used for another file File:Euan Dickson.jpg from the same source. Change the fields as you need but to briefly explain what they all are. First of all this is a template {{Information}} desinged specifically to capture all the essential information about images.

• Description - what/who is the photo of. I could have been fuller here and you don't need to write an essay (that's the point of the article the image is going into) but enough to identify the subject.
• Source - where is the image from. Note it's the Royal Aero Club not Ancestry and I've added which volume. This is so if anyone wants to go and verify the source they have more information about where to look. If you want to add the Ancestry URL fine.
• Date - of the image. If you only have year that's enough, if you have month and/or date put those in to.
• Author - i.e. who took the photo, not your own name :-). If the identity of the photgrapher is known include their name and death year. If it's unknown put Not Known.
• Permission - leave these as above. This is the really important bit as it establishes that the photo is out of copyright and is where most people go wrong. What we are saying here is that under EU copyright rules the photo was published more than 70 years ago without a public claim of authorship (anonymous or pseudonymous), and no subsequent claim of authorship was made in the 70 years following its first publication (thats the {{PD-EU-no author disclosure}} bit) and secondly that under US copyright rules the image is in the public domain in the United States because it was first published outside the United States prior to January 1, 1923 (thats the {{PD-US-1923-abroad}}part). With other photos different licences will apply for example for a photo you took yourself you would use {{pd-self}} but for now the two quoted are the correct ones to use
• Other versions - leave blank

1. Licencing - you can leave this because we have put the information in using {{information}} but if we hadn't we can use this drop down list to find the appropriate licence - if we needed it here we would use First published in the United States before 1923.

Now you can click Upload File and away it will go. Job Done

If you want to use the Upload Wizard

1. Go to Upload file and start the upload wizard.
2. Next screen Step 1 - find the file on your Mac
3. Step 2a - give it a sensible name. If it's a person just use his name and the photo type probably .png or .jpg
4. Step 2b - description of the photo e.g. "Lt X photgraphed for the Royal Aero Club records when awarded his pilot's licence" - you don't have to go to town on this but enough for the photgraph to be understood. Certtainly you can use links to relate to the article on X
5. Step 3 - click on the button that says "This is a free work" (This is assuming the photo in the album isn't credited to a photographer i.e. author unknown)
6. This brings up several more options. Choose the one that says "This work is so old its copyright has expired"
7. More drop down boxes
8. Author - unknown
9. Lifetime - unknown
10. Original publication - Royal Aero Club Aviators Certificates Album "#N" dated 191X
11. Date of publication - 191X
12. Immediate source - the Ancestry page you downloaded from
13. Next bit "Public Domain status"
14. Chose the second option It was first published outside the USA, and it was in the Public Domain in its country of origin by the URAA date
15. Having done all that select Upload (not Upload on Commons) to upload the file.

I think the wizard is good in that it forces you to put the permission etc in but poor because it's more long winded and doesn't allow as the plain form does the nuances of the licence tags. However it's your shout. What it comes down to is confidence in understanding and using the |permissions= field in {{information}}. Once you start to find your way round that I think the plain form is faster and easier. To move on a bit depending on how we get the consent of IWPP the permission field may either be |{{OTRS-pending}}= or |{{Cc-by-sa-3.0}}=.

Hope this helps. If you don't understand any of it, give me a shout and I'll try and explain it better. Also don't worry if you get it wrong. Like anything else it can be edited after it's been saved. NtheP (talk) 09:47, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

I did it! Thank you! ACP2011 (talk) 12:39, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

My pleasure. NtheP (talk) 12:42, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Welcome

Hello, ACP2011! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. You may benefit from following some of the links below, which will help you get the most out of Wikipedia. If you have any questions you can ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or by typing four tildes "~~~~"; this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you are already excited about Wikipedia, you might want to consider being "adopted" by a more experienced editor or joining a WikiProject to collaborate with others in creating and improving articles of your interest. Click here for a directory of all the WikiProjects. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field when making edits to pages. Happy editing! Rosiestep (talk) 04:54, 29 February 2012 (UTC) Getting Started The five pillars of Wikipedia • Tutorial • Your first article How to: edit a page • upload an image Getting Help Frequently Asked Questions New contributors' help page Where to: ask questions • make requests Request administrator attention Policies and Guidelines Neutral point of view • Reliable sources Verifiability • Citing sources • No original research What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons Manual of Style • Three-revert rule • Sock puppetry Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The Community Community Portal • Adopt-a-user program Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • Resolving disputes Build consensus • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Things to do Be bold in editing • Help develop an article Maintenance • Peer review • Requested articles Join a WikiProject • Translating articles Cleaning up: General • Spam • Vandalism Miscellaneous Categories • Disambiguity • Stubs User pages • Talk pages Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

Disambiguation link notification for March 7

Hello, ACP2011. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions#Afraid to really add anything....
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Hi. I replied again at the teahouse. I would like you to get due credit for your hard work. I had written quite a few articles before I found out about this. You got your watchlist set up so you can quickly see when articles and talk pages have been edited?--Charles (talk) 20:46, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi, Charles. I don't even know what a watch list is. Where/how does one set up such a list? Thank you. ACP2011 (talk) 20:51, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

You click"my preferences" at the top of the page then watchlist. You can set it to automatically add anything you edit. Click "watchlist" at the top regularly to keep up with what everybody is doing. You will soon see if your articles get vandalised as sadly they often do.--Charles (talk) 20:59, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

I think I'm going to give up right now on the nomination process because I'm just getting lost. However, I will try to go ahead and create a watch list. If I understand correctly, a watch list is a list of the articles you've created or edited and you want to keep tabs on to make sure that they're not vandalized? ACP2011 (talk) 21:30, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

You can put any page on your watchlist. For example this page, your talk page is on my watchlist because we've had several conversations and I wanted to know when you had responded without having to keep looking at the page. As well as articles I've had direct involvement in (and maintain an interest) I've got project pages, other articles that interest me as well as wikipedia admin pages e.g. Teahouse. There's almost 200 pages on my watchlist and my list is probably small compared to some people's. One you might be interested in watching is Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history or rather the talk page (watch either, you get both). Currently there is a long discussion going on about whether medal ribbons should be displayed in articles. NtheP (talk) 21:40, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

A cup of tea for you!

I'm so delighted and pleased with your progress on Wikipeida! You really seem to be getting comfortable with the whole setup. The Teahouse is here to help, we're so glad you are here :) Sarah (talk) 21:44, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Sarah. I just learned about a watch list this afternoon, so I just tried to indicate my preferences for it. Hopefully, I didn't mess it up too badly. Do you have any suggestions on the process for requesting feedback on articles? I created several of them in the past two weeks. I'm unclear on how the pages are rated. While I keep trying to improve all of them, I'd particularly like to improve the ones that have been rated as start class. When I put a message on one of my articles' talk page, I received a message to the effect that it was unlikely that anyone would see my request for specific feedback. Is there someplace that I should be looking for criticisms that were made at the time of article ratings? Thank you. Anne (talk) 22:38, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi Anne! Ah yes, feedback for an article. Well, one great tool is to look at WikiProjects which revolve around the subjects you are writing about. Looks like military biographies and UK related subjects would be good - so you can always visit the talk page for those projects and ping folks to look at your articles. You can perhaps also try asking at the Teahouse. So far we haven't had any requests for article review - and perhaps one of your articles can be a test run :) And if the hosts decline to provide feedback, maybe they can point you in the right direction that I'm failing to point you in. Sarah (talk) 23:31, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the ideas, Sarah. So feedback at WikiProjects or the Teahouse. Sorry for the delay in response. I initially didn't find your message. Thanks again. Anne (talk) 22:20, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Help with Did You Know? nomination

Hello ACP! User:Charlesdrakew has pointed out your new article Arras Flying Services Memorial, which is eligible for Wikipedia's Did You Know? section. I see you have made a start on setting up a nomination. It's not the easiest system in the world, but I'll guide you through it if you like. (I'm an experienced user of the Did You Know section.) I'm just looking over the article at the moment, and will make some suggestions here in a few minutes; then I'll set up the nomination for you. Kind regards, Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 23:02, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Essentially, an article that will qualify for DYK is one that is new (written within the last few days), reasonably long (there is a specific minimum length, but anything above about four paragraphs should be OK), suitably referenced with inline referencing using reliable sources, and that can have an interesting, funny, curious or noteworthy statement written about it in a short sentence: this is the "hook" that will "hook" readers into exploring the article. (The hook appears on Wikipedia's main page for eight hours; readers will then click on the article name and will be taken to your article.) Anyway, both Pruett Mullens Dennett and Arras Flying Services Memorial fulfil all of these criteria, so they are certainly eligible.

The next thing is to set up the nomination template. Having read the articles, I can see that a good hook incorporating both articles could be something like this:

Did you know ... that nearly 1,000 airmen killed on the Western Front who have no known grave, such as Pruett Mullens Dennett, are commemorated on the Arras Flying Services Memorial?

If that looks like a good way of "hooking" potential readers into the articles, I will go ahead and edit the template you have created and add it to the nominations page. I'll describe the whole process as I do it! Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 23:17, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

That's excellent. And that's how I've been learning--watching how other people are going about the process. Thank you so much. Anne (talk) 23:35, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome! I've now completed the nomination template. To explain what I did: first, I added the text of the "hook" as above, following various DYK conventions such as marking the relevant articles in bold (three apostrophes on each side) and linking them; then I added an image (it's more difficult to do when the template has already been created, but if you are at the template creation stage you would just need to enter the image file name, exclusive of the File: prefix) and some explanatory text for the image; and I just added a note explaining that the nomination is yours but I will oversee it. The template, i.e. the "page" called Template:Did you know nominations/Arras Flying Services Memorial, then has to be added to the main "Did You Know?" nominations page under the date heading relating to the date on which you started the article(s). For DYK purposes, an article "starts" when it first goes live into the main body of the encyclopaedia. So although you started writing Arras on 3rd March in the "Articles for Creation" area (I can see that by going to the revision history and selecting "earliest" to see the earliest edit), the point at which it actually went live into the encyclopaedia was today, when User:Ktr101 moved it out of the "Articles for Creation" area. (To see this, go to the Arras Flying Services Memorial article, click on the "History" tab at the top and look for the line near the top showing the time 04:35, 7 March 2012 and the summary Ktr101 moved page Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Arras Flying Services Memorial to Arras Flying Services Memorial: Created via Articles for Creation (you can help!)) So Arras went live on 7th, Pruett Mullens Dennett went live on 6th, and I have added the nomination under the 6th March heading. This can be seen here.

I recommend that you put Template:Did you know nominations/Arras Flying Services Memorial on your watchlist: follow that link and click on "Watch" at the top. It is then easy to track any edits made to the nomination. I must go to bed now, but tomorrow I will add another note here to explain what is likely to happen next and a bit more about the DYK process. Also, if you have any other questions, do please ask! Cheers, Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 00:24, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

A bit more info on the DYK process. The stage where I placed the link on the nominations page was important (and easily forgotten!): it allows the contents of the nomination template to be displayed in full on the nominations page, allowing anybody looking at that page to see your nomination. (In technical terms, this is called transcluding a template, which you will no doubt see being used all around Wikipedia!)

At some point in the next few days (maybe longer, maybe shorter), another user will undertake a review of your nomination, to assess its suitability for appearing on Wikipedia's Main Page. The Main Page is seen by millions of people every day, so anything that appears there (even a single-sentence "hook") must pass certain standards of accuracy, verifiability, grammatical quality and so on. Likewise, because many people could potentially navigate their way to the article(s) linked from a hook, the article must be checked against various criteria. Assuming it passes, it will be "ticked off", and the hook sentence will later be moved to a holding area from where it will be placed on the Main Page for 8 hours alongside about 6 other hooks. Only one hook per set is allocated the "image slot" at the top, where it will appear alongside a small version of one of the images from the article; this is considered the most prestigious position! (This is why I added the image of the memorial to the nomination template.)

DYK is only a small part of Wikipedia, and many Wikipedia users (even the most experienced) never use it. It is an ideal venue for quality new articles to be showcased to the wider world, though, hence Charles's suggestion above that you nominate these two articles (and my involvement; we have worked together several times on Sussex-related and church-related articles, and he knows of my interest in the DYK process). I can say from long experience with DYK-nominated articles that military-related articles are very popular in terms of the number of people who will typically "click through" from the hook to read the article. Probably the best thing about DYK is how an article on a potentially obscure or small topic, which ordinarily would not be found or read by many people, is given the chance to grab the attention of millions on the Main Page. The number of hits on a particular Wikipedia article can be measured by an external website which was created by a Wikipedian and which can be found via a link from each article's "History" tab; a typical article might receive 10-50 hits a day, rising to several thousand on the day its hook is run on the Main Page! Furthermore, those extra readers may well bring something extra to the article: new information, more references, formatting, or suggestions for further improvements. Off the back of my last successful DYK nomination (two days ago; St Margaret's Church, West Hoathly was the article), a user who is knowledgeable about church bells added a great deal of up-to-date information on the church bells using a specialist source he has access to. In this respect, it can be the perfect demonstration of Wikipedia's collaborative demonstration in action!

Incidentally, by bizarre coincidence, I noticed that the photo of the Brighton war memorial was one that I took! As well as contributing to Wikipedia, I have uploaded several thousand photos (with a Public Domain licence, making them freely usable on Wikipedia and elsewhere) to Wikimedia Commons, the image-hosting sister project of Wikipedia. My specialisms are churches and listed buildings in Sussex, and the war memorial is a Grade II-listed building. (If you click on the image, you will see some information about the photo; it was uploaded by "The Voice of Hassocks", which is my Wikimedia Commons username.) Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 08:30, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

RFC comes under Army. Collins is a really interesting case and it's a pity there isn't more about him. He's an observer who was an ace rather than a pilot and they are a lot rarer. Incidentally the top observer ace of the war also served in 22 Squadron - Charles George Gass. We just have to accept that if sources are scarce then we aren't going to be able to develop much of an article. NtheP (talk) 11:52, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

New articles

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		Thanks for your significant efforts to improve Wikipedia with your creation of the following articles: Ramscappelle Road Military Cemetery Edwin Edward Hunnisett Diamond War Memorial Maurice Graham English Pruett Mullens Dennett Arras Flying Services Memorial Thanks again for the great work! Northamerica1000(talk) 10:27, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. Anne (talk) 13:41, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Redirects

The next article that I've been working on again has a connection to World War I. However, I decided to try something new for me: an article with more than one subject. I'm working on a park that has four monuments. I wasn't convinced that I had enough material for five separate articles. So, I put everything in one article to create a nice size page and have all the related information together. My question is: what kind of code do I employ so that if someone searches for one of the monuments, it redirects them to the park? Thank you. Anne (talk) 17:28, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Anne, as an example if your article is X Park with monuments 1-4 then create for each monument a page with the code #REDIRECT [[X Park]] Anyone navigating to one of the monument pages will be redirected to X Park. If within you article X Park you have a section called Monument 1 you can be extra clever and create the redirect directly to that section by using the code #REDIRECT [[X Park#Monument 1]] Hope this helps. NtheP (talk) 17:38, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

I finished my article on Old Steine Gardens and I sent it to the main page so that it is an article now. I also tried my hand at a redirect. I attempted the second variation that you mentioned, for redirecting exactly to the section in mind. However, it doesn't appear to have worked. Specifically, I tried to redirect Brighton War Memorial to the correct section of Old Steine Gardens. I used the code [[#REDIRECT Old Steine Gardens#Brighton War Memorial. Where did I go wrong? Thank you Anne (talk) 23:57, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Fixed it. There was an extra pair of brackets in front of #REDIRECT. --Charles (talk) 06:06, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Anne, sorry my poor coding error above (now changed). NtheP (talk) 09:46, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks to both of you. So, no brackets before #REDIRECT. Got it. Anne (talk) 10:46, 13 March 2012 (UTC) I successfully did a redirect for "Statue of Sir John Cordy Burrows." I'm coming up against a little difficulty now though, with two issues (the second to be addressed a little later). For "Egyptian Campaign Memorial," there is no actual article in Wikipedia. However, someone else has already done a redirect. The redirect is to a page by the title of "Grade II listed buildings in Brighton and Hove: E-H." On that page, the Egyptian Campaign Memorial is listed as one out of 129 "buildings." Two sentences accompany it. Do I have any way of addressing this? Thank you Anne (talk) 15:30, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

OK, so a slightly different situation here, there's already an existing redirect. Not a problem, the first thing to consider is where should the redirect point? On the basis of what you have written in Old Steine Gardens I don't see any issue with editing the redirect to point to this article rather than the summary in Grade II listed buildings in Brighton and Hove: E-H. So firstly edit the redirect to point it to Old Steine Gardens#Egyptian Campaign Memorial. Secondly you want to edit Grade II listed buildings in Brighton and Hove: E-H so that the entry for the Egyptian Campaign Memorial also links to Old Steine Gardens#Egyptian Campaign Memorial. So replace the words Egyptian Campaign Memorial with
[[Old Steine Gardens#Egyptian Campaign Memorial|Egyptian Campaign Memorial]] This is a piped link where the text displayed is different from the title of the page (and section) to which the link points - exactly the same as your signature does. NtheP (talk) 15:46, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. I got a little confused about where to find the existing redirect for Egyptian Campaign Memorial, so I thought I'd start with the second part first, the editing of the Grade II listing buildings with the link. However, when I went to edit the page, I found the words "Egyptian Campaign Memorial" twice in the first line. First, it comes after "|{{sort|024|" and the second time after "|name=" - Which one should I replace with the above code? Thank you Anne (talk) 16:53, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

It's the one after sort|024 but to check it didn't break I've made the edit. I think someone has gone a bit OTT on the coding in this table . The use of the template {{sort}} is to enforce a default order on the items in the table - i.e. 024 ensures that on a default sort of the table this will be the 24th entry. The use after |name= is in the template {{coord}}, one of the clever things you can do with this template is generate a list of the co-ordinates in the article in for example Google Maps. The name parameter is to tag a label to the pin in Google Maps rather than just a bare set of co-ordinates. NtheP (talk) 17:42, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

My head starting swimming a little bit on that last one, but thank you! I looked at what you did and I get it. Also, I figured out how to find the redirect page for Egyptian Campaign Memorial and I successfully changed the redirect! On to the second issue to which I alluded in one of the above paragraphs. It's a related but slightly different problem. The last section that I need to redirect is "Victoria Fountain." In an article entitled "The Plain, Oxford" there is a small section "Victoria Fountain." When I input Victoria Fountain, it redirects to that section of "The Plain, Oxford." How does one deal with with two different structures with the exact same name? I've seen many disambiguation pages in Wikipedia. Do I go that way? Or is this more like the last problem, with a small section that doesn't take priority over a larger one? If it's the former, do I create a disambiguation page? Thank you Anne (talk) 18:17, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

We're really getting down to some stuff today; Redirects, piped links and now disambiguation pages :-) There are pages and pages dedicated to disambig pages (WP:DISAMBIG is the place to start) but we'll just address this instance.

1. Is there a primary topic? No we're talking about two fountains in different places. If one was a primary topic we would be looking at hat notes instead
2. As it's No to 1 then we need to turn the existing page Victoria Fountain into a disambiguation page. Easy to do, for the layout follow the guidance at MOS:DABINT and the following section MOS:DABENTRY. Normally piped links aren't used in disambig pages but here because you want to to disambig between sections on two separate pages you can use piped links. As there isn't any other way of distinguishing between the two, list them alphabetically by town, so Brighton first, then Oxford. If there are any more Victoria Fountains (I bet there must be) they can be slotted in as appropriate.

So you should end up with something like

Victoria Fountain may refer to: Victoria Fountain, a fountain in Old Steine Gardens, Brighton, England Victoria Fountain, a fountain on The Plain, Oxford, England

NtheP (talk) 19:39, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

It worked!!! Anne (talk) 20:17, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, ACP2011. You have new messages at Talk:Diamond War Memorial.
Message added 20:14, 13 March 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Feinoha  Talk, My master 20:14, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Someone today thoughtfully tried to help me finish creating the only category I've ever tried to create, Sculptures by Vernon March. However, even after I saved the page again, I received the same notice, that no such category existed. Where am I going wrong? I last tried this more than a week ago, and it still doesn't seem any easier. It doesn't seem that it should be this difficult. Anne (talk) 22:53, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi Anne. I think I know what's happened ... I'm just going to check, then I'll explain what I did to fix it. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 23:01, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

OK, that worked (thankfully!). Creating a category is a bit different from creating an article because there are really two stages. You can add a category to an article even if that category has not been created yet, and it will appear as a redlink. (This is what you were seeing with the Vernon March category.) Then the confusing thing is (and I think this is illogical!) that you can enter the category name in the search box (e.g. Category:Sculptures by Vernon March), and it will bring up the message you saw (that no such category exists), but you can see listed underneath it all the articles to which you added ! The last stage of the process, to actually finish creating the category, is done like this:

• Type the category name in the search box: say for example Category:Monuments in Brighton
• Under search results, it will say something like There were no results matching the query. You may create the page Category:Monuments in Brighton, but consider checking the search results below to see whether the topic is already covered.
• Click on the redlink Category:Monuments in Brighton. You will see Editing Category:Monuments in Brighton. If there are already articles which have that not-yet-completely-created category attached to them, they will appear below this.
• Below this is an edit window, just like when editing an article. To create the category, you must enter in the edit window at least one parent category to which your new category will be attached. So in this example, you might type Category:Monuments in England and Category:Buildings in Brighton (as wikilinks, i.e. with the square brackets round them). (You might need to spend a few minutes finding the most suitable parent categories for it. There is no limit to the number of parents a category can have.)
• If you wish, you can put a brief sentence or two as well, indicating what the scope of the category is.

So for Vernon March, I could see that although the category was on two articles, that last stage had not been done; so I found a couple of appropriate parent categories, added a description above it, and saved. That put the category live, and now on Diamond War Memorial and National War Memorial (Canada) you can see that "Category:Sculptures by Vernon March" is a bluelink. In a couple of days time, once the database has fully refreshed itself, you will be able to enter "Category:Sculptures by Vernon March" in the search box and it will appear as an option; clicking "Go" will then take you straight to it! Hope that helps; sorry it's a bit of a long-winded explanation, but it is a bit of a tricky process. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 23:22, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. I was starting to wonder whether perhaps the process was intentionally difficult, to prevent people from creating categories willy-nilly. It makes some sense, since there are supposed to be links in continuity. It does seem odd, though, that the process takes a couple of days. I'm definitely a list person, so my inability to create something which seemed rather simple was frustrating me. Thanks again. Anne (talk) 00:33, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

The creation of the category will in fact be immediate; the bit that can take (up to) a couple of days is the title auto-completing in the search box when you start to type it in. (I'm not sure all browsers even have this function, but mine does.) So if you typed "Category:Sculptures by Vern", it would automatically find "Category:Sculptures by Vernon March", but only after 24 hours or so. My explanation wasn't very clear above; it was getting late! Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 09:00, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Got it. Thank you. Anne (talk) 10:48, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Upgrade Photography Skills

I would like to upgrade my photography skills on Wikipedia/Wikimedia. So far, I've been limiting myself to an occasional aero club aviator photo that is clearly in the public domain. I'd like to learn a new category and I think I have a good example. In keeping with my WWI theme, recently I've started looking at sculptors whose work included WWI memorials. I finished an article on Elsie March yesterday and now I'm looking for more photos for both her and her brother Sydney. I found a photo at "geograph"

• geograph - Bromley War Memorial

I've seen some of their photos on Wikipedia/Wikimedia before. On their website and specifically for this photo, the organization indicates that the photo may be used, as long as it is under a creative commons license, the wording of which I've seen before on Wikipedia/Wikimedia. I would I go about uploading that type of image? Thank you. Anne (talk) 23:33, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Most of the geograph photos have already been copied to Wikimedia Commons but many have not yet been given a category. It is worth searching Commons to see what is there. Otherwise it is quite OK to copy Goegraph photos to Commons and somewhere on the Geograph page you will find a template just for that purpose. Have to go to bed now or I would look it up.--Charles (talk) 23:50, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. I'm trying to do what you suggest and just follow the rules on geograph for the Bromley War Memorial. On the geograph page, it indicates that one should use the Creative Commons Share Alike 2.0 license, but I only found the 3.0 license in the Wikipedia list. However, I did find this under attribution on geograph:

Bromley War Memorial (<a rel="cc:attributionURL" property="cc:attributionName" href="http://www.geograph.org.uk/profile/43806">Ian Yarham</a>) / <a rel="license" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/">CC BY-SA 2.0</a>

I'm not sure where to put this. I put it after Permission=. I'm using the summary page that I did for aero club aviator pictures. Thank you. Anne (talk) 16:16, 20 March 2012 (UTC) I uploaded the Bromley War Memorial photo. Description, Source, Date, and Author all look fine. However, permission is a mess. I don't know the code or at least what part of the code to use that was on the geograph website. Also, you mentioned something about categorization of photos. How do I go about doing that? Is it different from article categories? I'm starting to feel somewhat comfortable with Wikipedia categories. Thank you. Anne (talk) 16:43, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi Anne. Categories work just the same on Commons as here. I spend quite a lot of time sorting images that have been uploaded en masse from Geograph into categories. If you created a category for War memorials in Bromley for instance you would need to add Category:War memorials in Greater London to it to add it to the hierarchy of categories.--Charles (talk) 18:33, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. I still have to figure out how to officially be part of Wikimedia, and how to find the categories for images. Anne (talk) 19:02, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

You are officially part of all the various language wikis, commons and other projects by default. Your username is reserved for you on all of them. If you are logged in here this will be activated when you first visit them. Image categories are at the foot of the page or there may be a note saying the photo is an uncategorised upload from Geograph. Categories do not show on a preview, which can be a nuisance. You have to save before you see what you have added.--Charles (talk) 21:17, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

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License tagging for File:Bromley War Memorial - geograph.org.uk - 2561383.jpg

Anne, I've added the appropriate licence tag. The only thing you had wrong was the syntax. You were trying to use HTML rather than wiki code. If you look at this link which is the how to reuse this photo page from Geograph and scroll down about 3/4 of the way you'll see suggested code for the {{information}} template on the Wikipedia page you upload the photo to. All I've done slightly different is use the template {{Cc-by-sa-2.0}} rather than just the words in the permission field.

As this image is licenced under a CC licence you could have uploaded it directly to Wikimedia Commons where it can be usd by all wikis rather than just en-wiki, hence me adding the {{Copy to Wikimedia Commons}} tag. This last bit isn't desperatly important but something to consider if you are going to upload any more Geograph images i.e. straight to commons. The process is the same, just a different site. NtheP (talk) 17:48, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Old Steine Gardens

The DYK project (nominate) 00:02, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Archiving your talk page

This page is getting quite large, currently it's about 125kb in size - to put that into context were it an article it would be a candidate for splitting into separate articles. I see you've deleted a lot of notice which is fine but the rest you might want to archive. An easy way is create an archive page e.g. User talk:ACP2011/Archive 1 and then cut and paste to it everything from this page that you want to. Add at the top of your newly created archive page {{Template:UserTalkArchive}} which enables easy navigation back to this page and between archive pages and add to the top of this page {{UserTalkArchiveBox|auto=long}} which enables navigation to your archive page.

What you choose to archive is up to you so for example any barnstars I've been presented with I keep on my talk page even though they are getting old (call it narcissism) and you might decide to keep open discussion threads like the one on Vernon March on this page for the time being. The archive page is like any other you can edit it at any time. NtheP (talk) 09:50, 23 March 2012 (UTC) Thank you. I'll do that. I started deleting sections a day or two ago when I noticed that my talk page was getting a bit unwieldy. Anne (talk) 11:58, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi Anne. I have a robot called Cluebot III do my talk page archiving so I never need to bother with it. It can be set to leave however many threads you like on the page. If you are interested the code to instruct it is near the top of my page when opened for editing in tha archive box template.--Charles (talk) 17:55, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Charles. I'll check it out. Anne (talk) 18:02, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Photos Not Available

Continuing the theme from above, I assume that we cannot request photos from South Africa for the Cape Town War Memorial. However, we do have a photo of one section of the Samuel de Champlain Monument in Orillia, Ontario. Who/how would I contact to determine whether it was possible for someone to obtain photos of the Champlain Monument? Thank you. Anne (talk) 14:52, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

The whole freedom of panorama thing is a complete nightmare as each countries copyright laws are different. It's all to do with are buildings, statues, monuments etc works that the images of can be copyrighted. If they are, as monuments are in South Africa, then panoramic or outdoor shots can't be used of monuments. In Canada it's different and shots of 3D works in public places (including monuments) are fine but photos of 2D works e.g. paintings aren't. So there is no problem in using photos of Canadian monuments. Also don't worry about using refs where the website contains no public domain photos, that's not the issue as you're not making the direct link to the image but to the text. If there aren't any suitable photos on Commons, try posting at Wikipedia talk:Canadian Wikipedians' notice board to see if anyone has any. NtheP (talk) 15:41, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. It's easy to understand why people can make mistakes about posting photos that they've taken when the rules are so different from country to country. I think it's really weird that you can't post a photo of a building in South Africa legally. But good to know. I'll look some more on Commons for Champlain, but I've only found the one so far. Thanks for the info about the notice board. I'll take a look at that today. Anne (talk) 15:54, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

response to citations

• I thought I would answer you here since it could get lengthy:
• I thought I'd start with #6, since you used it as an example. I didn't know what ref name and ref group referred to, so I left them blank. you make up your own ref name, usually the authors last name, but if you use the same author more than once it could get tricky. The ref name ends up looking like this on the edit page "ref name=Smith" :Then if you want to cite that source again you click "cite" then the little clip board next to "named referenced" and a drop down appears and you see "Smith" and it insert it where your cursor it. When there is no author you can use the name of the newspaper or some detail in the source, something that you attach to the source.
• Also, I left location blank because I couldn't find a location for Osprey Publishing on the book page. There was a box for pages. I was uncertain as to whether that referred to the length of the book, or the page that I used. I assumed it meant the page used. If you go to get your article reviewed for "good article " (GA) or "feature article" (FA) a reviewer will want you to be consistent with whether or no you put locations. So either put them all in, or leave them all out, but best came, put them in. By page they mean the page(s) you used.

Also, there were boxes for only one author, so I only included Guttman. At the bottom of the form there is an selection "show hide extra fields" click on that to add additional authors.

• I noticed that there's no provision for access date for a book.no, that is just for websites.
• Also, I just did my third, which was ref #1 for Ancestry. There was an access date, but it didn't show up in the citation. Also, I can't give the URL's for any of my Ancestry refs, because it would bring someone right into my private Ancestry family tree. Remember that you need to use reliable sources, your private family tree will not cut the mustard. I have not looked at you specific case, but google books has a lot of published genealogies from the 19th century that I have found useful in writing about my New England ancestry.
• I notice that on these web templates, there's a box for "Work?" work would be "www.nytimes" while publisher is New York Times, for example. You the name of the web page for the work and there absolutely has to be a publisher for it to be consider reliable. That is usually at the very bottom of the webpage in small print. If it is no there is is probably someone personal work and will not be considered reliable.
• I've revised references 1-12 for Ralph Curtis so far using the above templates. Thank you. Anne (talk) 21:45, 25 March 2012 (UTC) I have revised all 21 in-line citations! Let me know what you would like me to work on next and whether the references pass muster. Thank you. Anne (talk) 23:11, 25 March 2012 (UTC) I probably will not get a chance to look tonight. Will try in the new 24 hours.--Ishtar456 (talk) 01:24, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

PS, look at the citations on this article to see how they should look Steamtown, USA

Thank you. I'll take a look. I think you misunderstood what I meant when I talked about my private family tree. I'm a member of Ancestry. Ralph Curtis is not part of my family tree. All of the Ancestry sources are directly from the Ancestry website. But any URL that I give for one of my Ancestry sources will give someone access to my family tree on the Ancestry website. I guess that I could test that by putting one of the Ancestry URL's on the article and then accessing it from my daughter's computer. Anne (talk) 01:57, 26 March 2012 (UTC) Well, it turns out my concerns about privacy were unfounded. I conducted a test by putting in the Ancestry URL for the 1901 England Census from my desktop computer. Then, I switched to my daughter's laptop computer and found my Ralph Curtis article. When I clicked on reference #2, the 1901 England Census, access was denied and instead there was just the generic Ancestry site inviting (my daughter) to join. Ancestry is a paid subscription. Ancestry won't allow just anyone access by clicking on a link in a reference. Anne (talk) 03:20, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm a little familiar with Ancestry.com. I have two suggestions for that 1. Try going to the original source if possible, for example if information on Ancestry was taken from the National Archives, then go there to see if you can get the info. 2. If not, make it very clear in your citation what the information is so that people do not confuse it with a users family tree. For example, if it is a census record then put in parenthesis: "Publisher= U.S. Census Bureau(as re-printed on Ancestry.com)". Ancestry may be where you found the info, but they are not the originators of it, so you have to lead the reader back to the original source. If that source is an arm chair genealogist (like me) it will not be considered reliable.--Ishtar456 (talk) 10:09, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

PS note how I handled things I took from encyclopedia-titanica on this article: Margaret Bechstein Hays.--Ishtar456 (talk) 10:12, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. Your Hays article was very helpful. I'll use it as a model. I think I have a better feel now for how to do the citations. I'll revise all the references again today. Hopefully the third time will be the charm. This is ending up being the hardest part of writing an article. Anne (talk) 11:00, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Sorry to put you through it. The first article I referred you to is currently under FA review. I had put all the citations in by hand, so for the review I had to make a few hundred edits to past the citations. I know it is a drudge, but it will make the article better.--Ishtar456 (talk) 14:35, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Well, it's just before noon here, and I've finished revising all 21 citations for Ralph Curtis again. I think they're looking much better. I've certainly learned a lot about citations the past two days. Thank you. Anne (talk) 16:55, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Information connections

Ann,

I saw your plaint about the scarcity of info on WWI pilots. I have been ratholing bookmarks since I started writing on the subject. Some sources which may prove useful for researching British pilots:

The London Gazette at http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/search is the official posting for promotions, awards, and honors. The Edinburgh Gazette at http://www.edinburgh-gazette.co.uk/ can be occasionally helpful in this respect. Their Optical Character Readers aren't the greatest, and you may have to search variations on a name–i.e., initials and family name instead of complete name, Wilson instead of Willson, etc.

Commonwealth War Graves Commission at http://www.cwgc.org/ can yield some basic info besides the death date of those killed in action.

Early Royal Flying Corps pilots' licenses can be checked at http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/wiki/1914_Aviators_Certificates_-_UK; http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/wiki/Aviators_Certificates_-_UK_1915; http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/wiki/1916_Aviators_Certificates_-_UK.

Biographies of senior commanders in the RAF can be found at http://www.rafweb.org/Cdrs_Alp_ind.htm. While they may have risen to command during WWII, they began their careers in WWI; each subject's military career is covered in extensive detail.

I find the aviation historians' website at http://www.theaerodrome.com/index.php quite useful. Although the WP community consensus (from which I dissent) is that it is not a reliable source, my crosschecks over four years have shown about a two percent error rate. However, to quiet the wowsers, I take note of the aircraft the ace used, and pop over to http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Search-Books/b/ref=sv_b_0?ie=UTF8&node=241582011 or to http://books.google.com/advanced_book_search. It is often possible to peek inside a book or books that cover that type of airplane, and winkle out info about your ace. Ironically enough, the author(s) of these books are often the same historians who are on the Aerodrome site.

I also have some folders of bookmarks for sources on Australian, Canadian, Austro-Hungarian, and German aces, if you want them.

Georgejdorner (talk) 02:39, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi George! Addressing your recommendations: 1. I've occasionally found a London Gazette or Edinburgh Gazette article, but it was hit or miss, because I didn't have the formal web address. Thank you. 2. Commonwealth War Graves Commission. I use it religiously. It's invaluable. 3. Aviators certificates. I have the aero club on Ancestry. However, that's been hit and miss. Those graces guide websites should come in handy. Wonderful. 4. Biographies of senior commanders. Excellent. 5. Aerodrome. I use this religiously, too. Like you, though, I like to verify. My verification has been using a variety of web sources, including the "peeks" at books. Thank you for the amazon and google web addresses. So far, I've found two cases where my results were different from the Aerodrome: One was Lionel Ashfield and involved also having info from an auction site so that the number went from 5 to 7. The other is Ralph Curtis, on whom I have been laboriously revising references today in an attempt to qualify for DYK. In that case, one of the books I found online gave me two additional victories, so the number went from the Aerodrome 13 to our 15. I'll let you know if I need those other bookmarks. Thank you very much. Anne (talk) 03:18, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

---

Anne,

You are quite welcome. In turn, I would like to thank you for the article on the Arras Flying Services Memorial, I have been redlinking to that for years, in hope that someone would create an article on it.

P.S. I also have a few random links to well-known individual aces, if you turn your hand to that and need some help. Georgejdorner (talk) 00:17, 27 March 2012 (UTC) You are quite welcome as well. I've been enjoying doing the combination of WWI related topics: aces, their memorials, and the memorial designers/sculptors. It looks like I'm going to be taking a brief hiatus from writing articles the next few days while I revise citations. I just spent the last three days revising the articles for Ralph Curtis and Desmond Uniacke for DYK, with attention to citations. I just looked below your message and I've received some more DYK notices. So, I have a future of revising more references. I find it laborious, but I think it will get easier as I become more experienced. Thanks for all your help. Anne (talk) 10:31, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

---

A barnstar for you!

	Gibraltar Barnstar of National Merit
	For your work on the Flat Bastion article in particular, great start! But you've put a tremendous amount of work into articles and a generally a much needed editor on here. Keep up the great work, and let's see many GAs on your articles in the future! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:12, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Thank you! Anne (talk) 15:18, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Re: Nuns or Nuns' or Nun's Well

I think it's Nun's Well and it's definitely notable enough to have it's own article. So, if you're up for it why not start a new article and replace the section in Europa Point with a summary of the new article? Here are some more sources: [1] [2] [3]. Toromedia is new to wiki and still getting to grips with everything, so maybe just leave him a quick message informing him of the copyvio issue and how he should reflect info from sources to Wikipedia. He's a nice guy, just needs a little guidance. --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 21:55, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Sounds like a good plan! Is your baby home from the hospital yet? Anne (talk) 22:55, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Good start on the article. Yes, she's home and back to her usual self running about and chasing the dog :) --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 09:09, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Excellent! Aren't babies great? When my children drive me insane, I try to remember their days as babies and toddlers. Enjoy! Anne (talk) 12:01, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

I'll remember that tip in fifteen years time! :)

I think it's safe to say that sentence should read: "Nuns' Well is acknowledged by consensus to be the only remaining pre-British construction for water storage in Gibraltar." There are massive reservoirs cut into tunnels within The Rock but these are of British construction. They used to be filled from natural water catchments on the western slopes of The Rock and later a huge artificial one constructed on the Great Sand Dune on the east side. They are still in use but are now filled with fresh water produced at a desalination on the North Mole. Hope this helps. --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 23:14, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Another great job Anne! This will fit in nicely when someone eventually writes on water supply in Gibraltar and the underground Moorish Aqueduct, thanks. :) --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 22:01, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Devil's Tower Road

Hi Anne, just noticed your draft and thought you may find these pictures of the actual Devil's Tower Child fossil and reconstruction (Gibraltar 2) useful:

• 
• 
• 
• 

--Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 22:07, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Excellent! Thank you Anne (talk) 22:10, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

FYI, I'm planning to do some expansion work on Gibraltar 1 as well. Prioryman (talk) 12:09, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Great! Maybe I'll do a separate Gibraltar 2 article. 12:32, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Great to hear the future plans guys! Anne, I was just thinking that some of the detail on the Devil's Tower child may fit better in Devil's Tower (Gibraltar) instead of the road article... What do you think? --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 22:30, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

No problem. I'll take a look this evening and tomorrow and play around with it. I'll move some info from Devil's Tower Road to Devil's Tower and start Gibraltar 2, also. I'm just starting a little separate article on what we discussed a few weeks ago, Gibraltar Cross of Sacrifice (and later, Gibraltar Memorial). Just finished Devil's Tower Road and corresponding section for Streets in Gibraltar today. Busy, busy, busy. Anne (talk) 22:44, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Better, keep it about the road. Good job on both though.♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:35, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Anne (talk) 14:42, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks and photos

Hi

Wanted to say thanks very much for all the amazing articles you're creating and working on. If you need any photos for anything please ask, I'm organising some photography days but I or a local can always take them. :)

Mrjohncummings (talk) 15:14, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. And I'd love to arrange for some photos. I've been trying to use what we have or upload them myself from old sources or from DiscoverGibraltar.com, which has been a great source of both info and images! This week, I'll go through all of my Gibraltar articles and make a list of those that could benefit from a photo. Anne (talk) 15:20, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Great, well I have taken quite a few myself whilst being here on weekend walks, I know locals also who have lots of images I can help upload. Mrjohncummings (talk) 16:42, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. Anne (talk) 16:46, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

La Playa Trail

Sorry to bother you, but I was wondering - is the DYK nomination Template:Did you know nominations/La Playa Trail acceptable now, or is there more that needs to be done? Thanks for all your help with that article. --MelanieN (talk) 01:46, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome. Happy to help. I'll take a look at it now. Anne (talk) 12:52, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! In your comment you mentioned infoboxes. I am familiar with the more common infoboxes - schools, people, etc. - but I can't think what kind of infobox to use for a historic trail. Any suggestions? --MelanieN (talk) 17:11, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

I was wondering whether you could just use the simple template Infobox road. Anne (talk) 17:20, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

I just looked at a number of templates, including various "road" and "historic" templates, but none seems like it would add much to the article. I notice that other historic trails such as Silk Road and El Camino Real (California) don't use an infobox. Apparently nobody has developed one that would be very helpful in describing historic routes. --MelanieN (talk) 17:48, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

When you have a chance, take a look at the infobox for U. S. Route 66. It's just another way to present information. Anne (talk) 19:04, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Talkback: you've got messages!

Hello, ACP2011. You have new messages at Template:Did_you_know_nominations/David_Segal_(reporter).
Message added Theopolisme 20:25, 23 October 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Another. Theopolisme 11:22, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Hope you didn't forget me... :) No hurry. Theopolisme 14:52, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

I haven't forgotten you! Yesterday afternoon and evening, I was working with another DYK contributor who's relatively new to Wikipedia. I'll take a look at your article this evening and see where it stands. Anne (talk) 15:19, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for being so patient with me. I've replied point-by-point: reply at your convenience. Theopolisme _Boo! 16:22, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Please, check

Please, check my nomination of the last veteran of the Second Anglo-Afghan War. Only if you want. Thank you. Iowafromiowa (talk) 16:24, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply, but I'm 77 and don't understand Wikipedia very well yet. I don't understand how it works and I have a very hard time when it comes to references and expanding articles since I don't know what's and what's not relevant to the article. I read the letter and I don't think it's relevant to the article. You may ask why I'm so enthusiast about this person, I tell you. I was 18 years old when I heard on the radio about this person's death, and now that I've come to know Wikipedia, I stumbled upon him and created his article. Hope you understand the why behind my enthusiasm for him. Thank you. Iowafromiowa (talk) 17:52, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia. I just started myself this year. I live in the Midwest, too, Chicago, although I'm from the East Coast. I remember very vividly getting lost in Wikipedia, trying to navigate from page to page. I learned how to use the Wikipedia citation template in April. It looks to me like you're doing great. I'll work with you tomorrow on finding more references and developing your article. Anne (talk) 19:00, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you! I'll highly appreciate your help. Who would've said that the 18 year old listening to the radio that night would be creating the article of that person's death almost 60 years later. It's moving for me. Brings about memories. Iowafromiowa (talk) 19:04, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Anne, upon reading this thread, I left a welcome and another greeting for Iowafromiowa (talk).

Thank you. Anne (talk) 23:40, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you!, add yourself as creator of the article on the did you know part!, besides, there's a problem with Siege of Kandahar, that siege, is not the siege of 1880. Hope you understand what I mean. Iowafromiowa (talk) 21:58, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

I usually don't bother with getting credit for helping out with articles. Don't worry about that. I haven't gone through everything yet (I've been working on the article late this afternoon and this evening in between yard work and kids), but do you mean that you linked to the wrong siege? Anne (talk) 23:40, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes, the Siege of Kandahar to which is wikilinked is not the Siege of 1880, which I haven't found on Wikipedia. Excuse me, but I must insist that you get credit for helping me out. I highly appreciate your help. Hope you're doing well. Wish you the best. Iowafromiowa (talk) 23:45, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm now going to bed, hope you understand a 77 year old (laughter). But the 18 year old who listened to this person's death on the radio is still pretty active and will try to get him to the main page with the invaluable help of yours. Thank you indeed. Iowafromiowa (talk) 23:57, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

I found a number of additional references with regard to Hugh, specifically. Here are a few: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], and [7]. Anne (talk) 00:36, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

I can't see the books' material, I only see the cover. Iowafromiowa (talk) 12:15, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

I checked the sources this morning and just now tonight, and all 7 of them seemed to be working fine, going directly to the desired page. Do you recall which one was the problem? The first 4 are books, the next 2 the London Gazette, and the last something you might just like personally-an Ancestry message board notice from Hugh's family. Anne (talk) 05:59, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Have you had a chance to look at the references I found on the 27th? I added the first one today, including text for Keble College, to your article. Anne (talk) 17:39, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi Anne

THanks for your note. Jim Crone gave the whole of his decades work about the Rock to creative commons. I'd refer the reviewer to the front page of DiscoverGibraltar.com where the cc by sa license is explained. I've been so pleased to see that you have reused a lot of Jim's gift. Jim wanted to type all the data into Wikipedia himself but he realised that the only efficient way for it to happen was for others to re use his work. I have noticed that you have established contact with Toromedia. Thats an excellent link as he leads the local history group and he is influencing the membership to contribute to Wiki too. I did send you an email as well. Can you check your in-box? my very best regards Victuallers (talk) 12:55, 3 November 2012 (UTC) See also here. This links to your article as I added the en:Orillon link at the bottom. In time the bots will spot the link and cross link your article automatically Victuallers (talk) 13:09, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Discover Gib

Hi I have made a comment on Martin's talk page on commons. I think he is failing to read the implications of it being cc by sa. Even if the images are given "to Gpedia" they are given as cc by sa - so Gpedia can claim no ownership later. Victuallers (talk) 09:58, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. Anne (talk) 13:07, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Last man

I enjoyed your bio about the last man from "stay behind cave"" - an interesting life and nice to discover this on remembrance day. Thank you Victuallers (talk) 10:41, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. However, the powers-that-be are apparently attempting to delete it. They believe him to be insufficiently notable. I disagree. The last few days, administrators been using a new maneuver, deletion. Attempting to delete either photos or, in this case, an article. And that's despite the fact that someone rated that same article as a B for military history! Anne (talk) 11:57, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

I cannot believe how editors are turning against the mission. The idea is to share all the information with everybody. Phil Crone who is a respected local historian, gives the rights to his web site that took him ten years to build to the world .... this is what we wanted to happen! Getting websites to be cc by sa is a great achievement. I think the fact that the Military History types think your recent bio it is a B is an important point. You create wonderful articles that show off your talents for research. I have spoken to amateur local historians who cannot find as much info to hand as you do from 1000s of miles away. I was very interested to read about what kind of person would consider a year of loneliness with little chance of fame and glory and a big chance of just being shot without trial as something you might volunteer for. Is this why you volunteer here? ... surely we should give you the glory? Victuallers (talk) 13:18, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Ah, yes. I've been feeling quite glorious, particularly recently. It is a shame that some people have lost sight of the big picture. Part of the reason that I enjoy doing this in my spare time is that, before I had children, I taught medicine in addition to practicing it. Once I had kids, it was just too much to continue teaching at the local universities in Chicago. Writing articles is another version of teaching. Who knows, maybe when my kids go off to college, I'll start teaching again. Anne (talk) 13:50, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi "Gloria", Teaching is what pays my bills this week. I usually teach I.T. but tomorrow I'm teaching Wikipedia editing to the staff of one of our local universities. You can either teach them 30 at a time or with wikipedia you can teach a 1000 at a time :-) Victuallers (talk) 22:24, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Commons Gib Images

I see we lost some ... I'll fix it up tomorrow. I think we lost a few s they chose 1880 as cut off which I think is a bit risk averse but we can load under fair use I think Victuallers (talk) 01:52, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

They've deleted images despite proper licensing? Anne (talk) 14:04, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Some of the images are dated to say 1900. To my mind that makes sense as being out of copyright because its now 70 years after the unknown authors death. Some argue however that theoretically a person could paint or take a photo in 1880 and still die in 1944 and therefore your work would still be in copyright for 70 years. I think this is people being over cautious rather than silly Victuallers (talk) 15:04, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Re images. The older images can be released I think by getting the permission of the Gib Museum. I am going to contact the director Dr Geraldine Finlayson to see if she can help. The major problem is that the author/artist is unknown so the copyright cannot be presumed to have timed out.

Are there particular images that are important to one of your existing or proposed articles? I am also getting translations for the Synagogues in Hebrew and Ladino (I didnt know about the latter language!). This would mean that i might need to create small articles for each synagogue. Would that be OK with you? I would obviously still leave the list. Victuallers (talk) 17:55, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Is there a list somewhere that I can check to see what images have been deleted from all our Gibraltar articles? Right now, I don't know where to start. Also, you mentioned translation. Is that translation of my Synagogues article? If you need some small individual articles for synagogues in English, just be aware-they probably won't survive. The hostility is continuing. My Devil's Tower Road article, which I thought was well-researched and a notable subject, hasn't passed DYK. Drmies is claiming that the sources are too local, etc. It's the main east-west road for the whole country and is sufficiently notable that there was outrage when the government proposed changing the name. Neanderthals lived at the site of Devil's Tower Road, etc. etc. Are they forgetting that I review DYK and that I know the quality of a lot of the articles, including some that actually make it to the main page? I've come to the conclusion that the DYK process is a joke. Anne (talk) 20:40, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

I admire your fortitude Anne. By all means claim 7 points as I think the chances of Devil's Tower Road getting un local references is tricky. ALTHOUGH I remember reading a piece by Cooper Willyams in a travelogue today where he mentioned traveling down that road. All of his books are on Google. As for seeing changes like images being deleted...... go to each of your articles and click on the star at the top this will put it in your watchlist. Then if a robot removes an image ten you will see the change. DYK process does go silly on an annual basis nearly - (I was at one time one of the leading workers for DYK). There are a bunch of spectators who think they could run it better ... but are too busy to actually show how - (but have plenty of pointy advice). Please to have you with the do-ers! Oh and try this toy. Victuallers (talk) 21:05, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the tips. I like the toy! Can I create maps with it for articles and, if so, how would I credit it with regard to author and date, since this is a contentious issue now? Cute maps! Anne (talk) 22:53, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

These are open street map data so its all "free". I hope you noticed that you can switch languages in the top left hand corner. Victuallers (talk) 19:26, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, ACP2011. You have new messages at Template:Did you know nominations/Mary Barber (bacteriologist).
Message added 23:32, 27 November 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Keilana|^{Parlez ici} 23:32, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

DYK nomination of O'Hara's Tower

Hello! Your submission of O'Hara's Tower at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! BlueMoonset (talk) 01:48, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Tito Vallejo recommends "Strong as the Rock” written by Quentin Hughes and Athanassios Migos as THE guide to Gib fortifications. He also sent me

Spur or O'Haras in 1947

. I have written to IWM to confirm that its out of crown copyright. Victuallers (talk) 16:33, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Tito has also sent me scans of the Duxford Brochure on "the Gibraltar Gun" and superb colour pictures of the gun being dismantled and then lowered by winches down the steep and narrow roads. The former may be stuff you have but the latter needs a copyright release. Can't mail them as I cannot attach images. I could load them to facebook or send them to an email address )pleaseadvise). The bad news is that I'm pretty sure the Black and White Vitello images are in copyright but hopefully we will get these better ones. (I asked after Prioryman - his hand his hurt - hence the silence!) Roger Victuallers (talk) 17:46, 27 November 2012 (UTC) Late news - Tito says he cannot remember the source of the colour pics of Vitello, so cannot use but could send if you are interested Victuallers (talk) 09:29, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Roger, I'd like to see them please :) --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 13:01, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Project Vitello

1=HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:15, 16 December 2012 (UTC) 16:54, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

DYK for William Green (general)

The DYK project (nominate) 00:02, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Middle Hill Battery

Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:03, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Bruce Cooper

Casliber (talk · contribs) 16:04, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

Welcome to MILHIST

Hello and welcome to the Military history WikiProject! As you may have guessed, we're a group of editors working to improve Wikipedia's coverage of topics related to military history.

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If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask any of the project coordinators or any other experienced member of the project, and we'll be happy to help you. Again, welcome, and we are looking forward to seeing you around! Anotherclown (talk) 21:56, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Re: Hello

Hey Anne, it's been four months - a long time indeed! Welcome back. Sometimes a wikibreak is needed but I have to say I'm really glad you're back and look forward to working together again. :) Funny thing is it was only yesterday when I was thinking of emailing you to find out how you were doing! You may have noticed that King's Bastion has recently gone live. I merged both our drafts and nominated it for DYK (pending), obviously crediting you too. I'm sure you'll get to grips with editing again in no time. In any case, I'm always here to help! Best regards, --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 18:54, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Great to hear about King's Bastion! I just sent an email to Roger (Victuallers) a couple of minutes ago to let him know I was still alive. I'm definitely interested in rejoining the Gibraltarpedia initiative, although it won't be for a few weeks. Right now I'm mired in tax preparation paperwork, and tax day - April 15th - is looming! Anne (talk) 19:07, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Actually I won't be very active till then either (or at least I shouldn't be!) as I have an exam to study for on 12 April. So we can resume collaborating after your tax day :) --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 20:40, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Excellent! Anne (talk) 21:08, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Saw your comment on the King's Bastion DYK nomination, and yes, I know it's ridiculous. Prioryman tried to have the restrictions lifted as there hasn't been a single conflict of interest issue since the restrictions were imposed but no consensus was reached either way. In any case the restrictions haven't been an obstacle for continuing with article creation as you've probably noticed by now. By the way, in case you no longer remember where the to-do list is here's the link. Also, if you're interested in continuing your work on the batteries, you'll see that they're all blue links in the fortifications article but most are only tiny stubs and need expanding.

Thanks for the to do list. I used to have all these tabs on my computer for my various Gibraltar projects, but everything got wiped out by my family in December. As far as I know, the competition is long over, so it's crazy that Gibraltar articles are still relegated to the back of the bus. I dipped my toe in the DYK water, but I have extreme reservations. Anne (talk) 18:52, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi Anne, let me know if you're happy to resume working together soon :) --Gibmetal 77^{talk 2 me} 20:44, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK for All Saints' Church, Winthorpe

 — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:02, 2 May 2013 (UTC)