Template talk:Infobox official post

Superceded by

I'd like to know anyone's thoughts on adding a parameter for succeeding offices, when the template is used in conjunction with former offices. For that reason, I propose the addition of a Superceded by parameter.--Tærkast (Discuss) 11:35, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

I vote in favor of requesting this parameter. It would be useful for official posts that have been superceded by regime change or re-organization of government bureacracy.Jaredscribe (talk) 07:26, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

It would be ludicrous to have a parameter that is incorrectly spelled. The spelling is, and always has been, "supersede". This is not a US-GB difference, it is simply a right-wrong difference. --RexxS (talk) 18:36, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

According to Merriam-Webster, both can be used. Regardless, it is a much needed parameter. Skjoldbro (talk) 16:53, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

According to Merriam-Webster: "Supercede has occurred as a spelling variant of supersede since the 17th century, and it is common in current published writing. It continues, however, to be widely regarded as an error." Of course it can be used, but it is an error to do so.

• Meriam-Webster's etymology: "Supersede ultimately derives from the Latin verb supersedēre, meaning "to sit on top of""
• Cambridge Dictionary: "supercede is a common misspelling of: supersede".
• Dictionary.com: "a frequent misspelling of supersede."

It makes the encyclopedia a laughing stock to deliberately introduce spelling errors, when we know the correct spelling. --RexxS (talk) 17:23, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

|superseded_by= better? Skjoldbro (talk) 17:44, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

It certainly is – beyond any question. --RexxS (talk) 18:58, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Reopening this because I believe it to be a valid parameter. Can someone with the ability to do this add it? It wouldn't be a controversial addition, so I'm not sure if consensus would really be required. You've already got precursor, so this can then be placed after that.-Tærkast (Discuss) 19:41, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

 Done User:GKFX^talk 20:34, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

Parameters with no description

What is the purpose of the | type = and | status = parameters. This change at United States Secretary of Defense switches between the two and is unexplained but the template documentation appears to provide no guidance on what/how to use them.– Archer1234 (talk) 16:33, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 21 October 2019

I am an expert in microformats. I would like to cleanup the Template and integrate with hCard. Can any admins give me right. Kutyava (talk) 17:56, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

@Kutyava: Not done: If you want your user rights to be increased, this is not the right page to request additional user rights. If you want the protection to be reduced, requests for decreases to the page protection level should be directed to the protecting admin or to Wikipedia:Requests for page protection if the protecting admin is not active or has declined the request. If you merely wish to indicate the changes that you have in mind, please make your requested changes to the template's sandbox first; see WP:TESTCASES. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:35, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

@Redrose64: Sorry, brother, I am only requesting temporary rights to modify this template. It's possible?? Kutyava (talk) 01:03, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

As I noted, if you need additional rights, there is a different page to request that. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 08:56, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

@Kutyava: I agree that it is not ideal that {{Infobox official post}} does not emit microformats, however it is a highly-visible template with over 6,000 transclusions, so it is unlikely that its protection level will be lowered, and it is equally unlikely that an admin will grant template editor rights to someone who is a suspected sockpuppet of a blocked and locked user.

For anyone wanting to actually implement microformats on this template, please read Template:Infobox person #Microformat and propose a list of classes that the hCard would use here. There would need to be consensus on those as a first step. Subsequently, those could be added to the template with a simple edit request. --RexxS (talk) 19:43, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Params Inaugural vs. First

Are the params Inaugural and First aliases of each other, and if not, what are they? The documentation contains insufficient information to answer this question.

The Inaugural param is used in both example Infoboxes, but it is not listed in the Usage or Parameters sections, nor is it covered in the TemplateData section. The First param is not used in either example, but is listed in the #Usage and #Parameters sections. In the #Parameters section where First appears, there is no indication of any aliases. If these two params are the same, that information must be added, and if they are different, they each need to be described in the Usage and Parameters sections, and one of the Examples should include both of them.

As a concrete example, does this edit make sense, or not? Mathglot (talk) 21:03, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

In the template itself, |first= is followed by |last=, whose labels are "First holder" and "Last holder" (which is followed by |abolished=). On the other hand, |inaugural= is a separate field and produces the label "Inaugural holder". To me those are synonymous, and I'm guessing that the first/last/abolished was intended for posts that no longer exist, but whoever added it (or merged it in) didn't notice the "inaugural" parameter. Or vice-versa on the order of adding. Of the 5,493 articles using this infobox, 3,680 make use of the "inaugural" parameter (5 of those are blank). This is the search I used to find them:

hastemplate:"Infobox official post" insource:/inaugural *=/

You might want to check some of those to see if you think "first" would work as well. Personally, I'd scrap "inaugural" and settle for "first", although it might need a bot run, or a bit of time manually with AWB to replace. Anyway, it's something I'd like to see more opinions on. --RexxS (talk) 01:44, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

Why not just alias it to |first=, then only track down the few templates with both specified?  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  03:41, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 6 May 2020

Hello, I’d like to request that a parameter be added to change the label under the current officeholder’s image from “Incumbent” to something else. There are cases where this is needed, for example, on First Lady of the United States, for which the convention has evolved to avoid using the term “Incumbent” because of its strong political connotation. I realize this is an infobox template for an official post, but FLOTUS is quasi-official, and I can imagine other situations in which this would be the case and no other template would be more appropriate. Using this parameter, I’d change “Incumbent” to “Currently in role” to better reflect the consensus established on Melania Trump’s personal page.  — Tartan357 (Talk) 00:26, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit template-protected}} template. FWIW, mw.com defines incumbent as "1. the holder of an office or ecclesiastical benefice; 2 : one that occupies a particular position or place". Also, per the documentation, this "template is intended to be used on articles about the post, rather than the person holding it for the moment". In what situation would "Incumbent" be inappropriate for this template, given those definitions and the template's own instructions? – Jonesey95 (talk) 00:42, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

@Jonesey95: I do understand that the template is for the post, not the current holder. Consensus does exist for these exceptions, and editors are having to use the image caption parameter as a workaround in cases where “incumbent” is inappropriate. I can do that, but it seems more appropriate for the template to be changed. There was a discussion a while back on the first lady’s personal page about referring to her with “assumed role” rather than “assumed office.” If you want another example, please see how this template is used on Presidency of the Council of the European Union. That office is official, but the current holder isn’t quite an “incumbent.” — Tartan357 (Talk) 01:06, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

@Jonesey95: I just located the relevant consensus on Melania Trump’s personal talk page. Note that in that case Template:Infobox officeholder was changed to accommodate the new wording. That’s the template for the infobox for an officeholder; I’m requesting a change to this template so we can reflect such changes on the pages for the offices themselves. My apologizes for not presenting the consensus initially in my request.  — Tartan357 (Talk) 01:17, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

I am not persuaded (I think that the EU article could use "Incumbent" without conflicting with the definition above), but I would not object to someone else making a change to this template based on the discussion above. – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:36, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

@Jonesey95: What do you think about the consensus on Melania’s page that led to Template:Infobox officeholder being changed? — Tartan357 (Talk) 01:46, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

I see why it was done, but I question the use of Infobox officeholder for someone who does not hold a political office or official government appointment. Maybe there is a better place to redirect {{Infobox prime ministerial spouse}} and {{Infobox First Lady}}. Again, if someone else wants to make this change, I won't object, but if first ladies do not hold an official post, I don't think they should use this infobox. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:19, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

@Jonesey95: Those last two are for the office holders, not the office itself. Would you recommend that I create a new template? I haven’t done that before. — Tartan357 (Talk) 05:14, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit template-protected}} template. Izno (talk) 15:31, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

@Izno: Thanks. I’ll just make a change on the page in question instead of pursuing a change to the template. There’s a consensus for that specific change, but I hadn’t considered that it didn’t necessarily extend to the template. — Tartan357 (Talk) 00:57, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Use of photos

As per the template's name, this is an infobox for an official post. The way that it's used is that the infobox can display a photo and as part of the caption, the word "incumbent" is auto-generated. The post immediately above questions this practice. I had previously raised an issue with this in 2013 but that attracted no response.

I suggest that we do discuss this issue. What I had raised in 2013 was that where this infobox is used for a post that no longer exists, there is no incumbent. But there may have been a prominent officeholder and it may well be appropriate that this person be shown in the infobox, as a strong association with the post may exist. There is no way to generate a caption and the result is that the photo is shown without a caption that explains what this is all about. And as the item above explains, it is sometimes not appropriate to use the label incumbent. It may also be the case that there is no photo for an incumbent, but a photo for a previous (prominent) officeholder is available. It may be appropriate to show the that previous officeholder in the infobox.

I therefore suggest that we give editors the option to generate a free-form caption for the photo. What do other editors think? Schwede66 22:06, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Demo of free text

Markup	Result
{{Infobox official post | post = Principal Feline | image = Kittyply edit1.jpg | imagecaption = Top cat }}	Principal Feline Top cat
{{Infobox official post | post = Principal Feline | image = Kittyply edit1.jpg | imagecaption = Top cat | incumbent = TC }}	Principal Feline Incumbent TC

I'm sorry if I'm not understanding properly, but there seems to already be the option to provide free-form text if the |incumbent= parameter is omitted (which would otherwise override the |imagecaption= parameter as shown in the demo). Am I missing something? --RexxS (talk) 23:01, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

That's great! I had overlooked that in the code and shall add it to the documentation, as it's missing. Schwede66 00:05, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Paramater for Previous Incumbent(s)

Since this infobox pertains to the official post itself, and not merely the officeholder, it would be fitting to provide a broader historical range than the mere immediate present. Adding this parameter would go a small ways to broadening the scope of the infobox. Even better would be a list of the previous four officeholders. What do other users think?Jaredscribe (talk) 07:30, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Unused parameters?

Are the |founder= and |named_for= parameters actually used? They seem ridiculous. Are there any offices named after anyone? And even if that is the case, I don't really see how these two parameters needed. Skjoldbro (talk) 16:59, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

@Skjoldbro: You can search for parameters in infoboxes using Special:Search like this:

hastemplate:"Infobox official post" insource:/| *founder *= *[A-Za-z]/

4 results:

• Baranagore Ramakrishna Mission Ashrama High School
• Kendal Regency
• Professor of Celtic (Glasgow)
• Adam Smith Professor of Political Economy

hastemplate:"Infobox official post" insource:/| *named_for *= *[A-Za-z]/

2 results:

• Marshall Professor of French
• N. Waldo Harrison Professor

Hope that helps inform the debate. --RexxS (talk) 21:21, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Edit request

Change;

{{#if:{{{incumbent|}}}|'''Incumbent<br/>{{{incumbent}}}{{#ifeq:{{{Acting|{{{acting|}}}}}}|yes|<br />[[Acting (law)|Acting]]'''|{{#ifeq:{{{Acting|{{{acting|}}}}}}|y|<br />[[Acting (law)|Acting]]'''|'''}}}}

to;

{{#if:{{{incumbent|}}}|'''Incumbent<br/>{{{incumbent}}}{{#ifeq:{{{Acting|{{{acting|}}}}}}|yes|<br />[[Acting (law)|Acting]]'''|{{#ifeq:{{{Acting|{{{acting|}}}}}}|y|<br />[[Acting (law)|(Acting)]]'''|'''}}}}

The result being: Acting changed to: (Acting)

Thanks - wolf 18:09, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

 Done — xaosflux ^Talk 19:12, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Xaosflux - wolf 09:29, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

@Xaosflux:, erg, just tried it and nada. Could I trouble you for one more change? There are actually two instances of "Acting" wikilinked to the "Acting (law)" article. The other is just one line above the word you added parentheses to. Could you add a set to that one as well? (Same as last time) If so, it's appreciated, if you have any questions, just let me know. Cheers - wolf 09:45, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

• This would be the final version;

{{#if:{{{incumbent|}}}|'''Incumbent<br/>{{{incumbent}}}{{#ifeq:{{{Acting|{{{acting|}}}}}}|yes|<br />[[Acting (law)|(Acting)]]'''|{{#ifeq:{{{Acting|{{{acting|}}}}}}|y|<br />[[Acting (law)|(Acting)]]'''|'''}}}}

Thanks again - wolf 09:49, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

@Thewolfchild: try now. — xaosflux ^Talk 11:53, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

@Xaosflux: - yep, that did it. Thanks again! - wolf 17:29, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 8 February 2021

Move the parentheses out of the following piped link: [[Acting (law)|(Acting)]] → ([[Acting (law)|Acting]]), as the parentheses are not part of the linked term. ― Tartan357 ^Talk 00:35, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

 Done Izno (talk) 03:42, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Module

Hi

Would there be a possibility of adding a module to this infobox so that you can merge two infoboxes into one? I'm thinking of the module in Template:Infobox officeholder. In the Kim Il (politician) the Infobox Officeholder is merged with the Infobox Korean Name... Could we do something similar with this infobox? It looks like less clutter if its one infobox. --Ruling party (talk) 10:24, 23 February 2021 (UTC) Anyone? --Ruling party (talk) 12:37, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

It certainly seems that it would be useful is this could be embedded into another infobox. This usage is currently expected at Vasireddy Seethadevi. Frietjes? MB 02:05, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

MB, I updated that article to use {{infobox officeholder}} which seems less messy. Frietjes (talk) 16:46, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Changes to the parameters

Resubmitting the proposal of the |superseded_by= parameter. Seeing as there is a |precursor= parameter it only makes sense to also have the other. There are also multiple articles related to former offices, which have since been replaced, so it is needed.

Additionally, I propose that the |founder= and |named_for= should be removed. They are barely used and unneeded. Skjoldbro (talk) 08:35, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 21 September 2021

Goszei or anyone: please undo the most recent edit, because suddenly there are 27 pages with div-span-flip lint errors because of this template. — Anomalocaris (talk) 08:55, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

 Done I undid the last change. I did not fix the error so the desired effect of the last edit needs to be reevaluate and redone. I'm leaving that for another.--John Cline (talk) 09:33, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

John Cline: Thank you. The lint errors are gone. I encourage whoever works on this to pay attention to lint errors. —Anomalocaris (talk) 15:50, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

My apologies. I have opted to move the native_name to a subheader to accomplish the same thing (it's also more semantically correct), so there shouldn't be Lint errors this time around. — Goszei (talk) 03:23, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

Proposal for Seal and flag on one line

Do you think we could change the flag and seal so that they will appear on the same line, similar to how they appear on articles about countries? It will save some room and make the Infobox less bulky. Bluealbion (talk) 19:27, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Auto import Wikidata content

Can the template auto import content from Wikidata e.g salaries, (500,000 Mauritian rupee) I have been using the stated example to import from Wikidata into infoboxes but I realized that templates like Template:Infobox software automatically imports software versions and other info. List of salaries of heads of state and government has salaries data and I am planning on importing that data into Wikidata for easy updating. - DownTownRich (talk) 22:11, 26 May 2022 (UTC) DownTownRich (talk) 22:11, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

References

Template-protected edit request on 1 October 2022

Hello, we need to add another column for the Prime Cabinet Secretary. Kenya, through president William Ruto issued an executive order and appointed Rt Hon. Musalia Mudavadi as the current Prime Cabinet Secretary (2022-2027) Nabiyimba (talk) 08:03, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit template-protected}} template. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:18, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Space missing

I would like to report this instance (permlink) of using this template. The person name and the string since are attached, it seems to be missing a space. ZandDev (msg) 19:38, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

'Acting' parameter

The parameter for Acting, needs to be repaired. It currently creates a 'wide' white space between the individual's name & when they assumed the 'acting' role. GoodDay (talk) 03:54, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

To editor GoodDay:  fixed. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 13:16, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Edit request 7 March 2023

Adding another field for "Headquarters" since not every political officeholder has a residence, but they do have a workplace or headquarter: Residence is good, but for many offices, the correct term would be "Headquarters" or "Office" or "Workplace". Would it be possible to add "Headquarter" "(or "Office" for instance) alongside "Residence"? For instance, the headquarter of the General Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam and the Permanent Member of the Party Central Committee's Secretariat is the Headquarters of the Party Central Committee. However, the party does not have an official residence for officeholders, as is the case in the United States and the United Kingdom. The same goes for China, the former Soviet Union and probably many other countries. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheUzbek (talk • contribs) 14:05, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: editor TheUzbek, you appear to want to add a parameter that will target a red link, which is avoided in iboxes. Please suggest an appropriate blue link(s) if possible. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 12:43, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Parameters and clarification

It's not very clear as to what the status and type parameters, are meant to be used for, so I think it would be helpful to have it clarified, and for any new parameters that get added to be clarified so people know what the parameter needs to be used for. I would also ask for the paramter "superceded by" to be clarified by saying it is in reference to the successor post, if the infobox is being used in a former office article.--Tærkast (Discuss) 18:59, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Appointer and Nominator

I think we should changed Appointer and Nominator to “Appointed by” and “Nominated by”. There are some articles where the post is filled by election, causing the grammar to be slightly off and look a little awkward . Bluealbion (talk) 14:22, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Change is inevitable for gu.wikipedia

The template has the appearance {{{post}}} of {{{body}}} but in Gujarati language we need {{{body}}} ના {{{post}}}. In English it corresponds to {{{body}}}'s {{{post}}}. Because in Gujarati we have this formation only. Please guide, how do I change in the template page in Gujarati Wikipedia. Also, I am able to see some titles in Gujarati like માનદ્ {{{style}}} પ્રકાર {{{type}}} સ્થિતિ {{{status}}} and many more. But I do not know how and where they come from. Please guide.

Dr. Dinesh Karia^{(Talk) (contribs)} 19:21, 26 August 2023 (UTC)